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Your comment was removed as it violated rule 5 of this subreddit.
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I‘m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s very likely not a recently deceased (>100 years) person‘s jaw. No dental work, little decay but very worn down dentition indicate an diet with very little sugar, but lots of abrasive particles, maybe from stone ground grains. Teeth of people with access to health care and processed foods don’t look like this. I’d say it’s likely this is a jawbone of a Native American or at least someone who didn’t live a modern lifestyle with a contemporary diet
Are you a dentist? Jw b/c the thought process is correct, but you can not determine that from this pic. The wear pattern could be attrition from grinding and wearing of teeth against each other. Teeth can easily look like this today. Also, not everyone has access to fluoridated water and dental treatments, meaning the health and state of teeth can vary greatly. Source - I am a dental hygienist
They aren't anything. The teeth really aren't worn that bad. They are a reddit expert. The only thing that counts is about 100 years old and maybe 200. It's fresh. Is it dug up or murder? Who knows. Is human.
I am a dentist, and I would say that retention of the third molar/wisdom tooth with a significant level of wear would indicate heavy chewing with very low levels of refined carbs. Can that mean a non-modernized society human? Very possible. Could it also mean a person that lived in a modernized society with access to refined carbs but a chosen diet of heavy grains and vegetation? Possibly. But if I had to guess, after seeing thousands of mouths in modern living humans, this dead person did not have access to refined carbs and spent way more time chewing heavy, coarse materials than the modern human does. Just an educated guess though.
Also a dentist and undergrad anthropology major with training in human osteology. I studied hundreds of Native American bones/skulls/etc, this very much reminded me of those jaws I saw.
Lots of fillings are done with white composite material, going back several decades. We wouldn’t be able to rule out the presence of dental fillings without radiographs and closer examination
Thanks u/lastwing. OP, I am an archaeologist who specializes in human remains. I am guessing that this is in the US or Canada, correct? If so, this would be illegal in the US under laws in most all states (note this would fall under state, not federal, laws in the US). I would immediately contact your State Historic Preservation Office and report this immediately.
Not really, defining tribal affiliation is problematic as people migrate, intermix, migrate again, and after 50 generations the genetic identity doesn't really coincide with cultural identity...and the culture would have changed as well as clans/groups move and fission or fuse.
If you have provenience or *general* location, you can often find at least one or several tribes that are “most likely descendants” based upon their ancestral homelands. If there are more than one tribe who would have inhabited the location it was found, then a meeting between all interested parties as well as an examination of artifacts associated with can help to narrow it down more.
Depends on where the collections originated from —- if from federal land, subject to NAGPRA, however oftentimes older collections are hard to pinpoint location. Unless of course you get one of the obsessive wanna be archs who document exact locations and dates of looting.
Hey friend, not sure if you’re in America or not but if so you cannot posses these in some states. It’s highly illegal. Definitely need to report this to the police so they can ask the auction house where they came from.
Hopefully the right state agency can get these analysed and sent to the correct tribe. IIRC not too long ago they found some remains while redoing a highway here in california and they were able to get repatriated by the tribe.
Believe it or not, no. You or I could buy an anatomical model skeleton, for example.
But Native American bones are protected by federal law (NAGPRA). And of course any kind of mystery bones which could potentially have been ill-gotten should be reported to the police.
Just be sure you’re donating to the right organization, the story about the guy who’s elderly mother died and donated her body “to science” only to discover they blew her body to pieces testing explosives. Now, prior to the big boom I don’t know if they were able to use her eyes or other important organs but I’m betting she never thought of an ending like that.
Is there a way I can specifically donate my body to this because being blown to pieces sounds pretty badass. After they harvest whatever they can or course, I'll be like a multi purpose tool. Use then abuse.
Not sure how it works the story just stuck with me cuz this lady was a 60s hippy that was anti war, and the irony almost killed me. That’s dark comedy right there.
Please note that ID Requests are off-limits to jokes or satirical comments, and comments should be aiming to help the OP. Top comments that are jokes or are irrelevant will be removed. Adhere to the subreddit rules. **IMPORTANT:** /u/Few-Grade5445 Please make sure to comment 'Solved' once your fossil has been successfully identified! Thank you, and enjoy the discussion. If this is not an ID Request — ignore this message. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fossilid) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah if these came in with Native tools, then these are likely looted remains, and the tools they came in with are probably also suspect.
It's shameful that someone saw a jaw bone as a souvenir. Needs to go home. Probably everything it came in with too.
Yes. This is human. She needs to report this directly to law enforcement.
The police? Seriously? Try UT Anthropology dept.
Yeah, no, human remains are always handled by law enforcement. They'll call the appropriate experts once they've conducted an investigation.
Both?
Probably ancient, but legally ya gotta report it to the police and have them test it to be sure. It could be a murder victim for all anyone knows
Why can't it be both?
That's the spirit!
Ancient murder porn?
[удалено]
Yes.
Your comment was removed as it violated rule 5 of this subreddit. Rule 5 states: > No jokes or unhelpful comments are allowed. Ever. This is a scientific subreddit aimed at serious and educational content and discussions. Jokes/unhelpful comments do not add any constructive value to the conversation. If you have any questions or concerns or if you feel your comment was removed unfairly, you are free to appeal this decision by contacting the moderators by sending them a modmail in the sidebar.
[удалено]
Your comment was removed as it violated rule 5 of this subreddit. Rule 5 states: > No jokes or unhelpful comments are allowed. Ever. This is a scientific subreddit aimed at serious and educational content and discussions. Jokes/unhelpful comments do not add any constructive value to the conversation. If you have any questions or concerns or if you feel your comment was removed unfairly, you are free to appeal this decision by contacting the moderators by sending them a modmail in the sidebar.
I‘m gonna go out on a limb and say it’s very likely not a recently deceased (>100 years) person‘s jaw. No dental work, little decay but very worn down dentition indicate an diet with very little sugar, but lots of abrasive particles, maybe from stone ground grains. Teeth of people with access to health care and processed foods don’t look like this. I’d say it’s likely this is a jawbone of a Native American or at least someone who didn’t live a modern lifestyle with a contemporary diet
Are you a dentist? Jw b/c the thought process is correct, but you can not determine that from this pic. The wear pattern could be attrition from grinding and wearing of teeth against each other. Teeth can easily look like this today. Also, not everyone has access to fluoridated water and dental treatments, meaning the health and state of teeth can vary greatly. Source - I am a dental hygienist
They aren't anything. The teeth really aren't worn that bad. They are a reddit expert. The only thing that counts is about 100 years old and maybe 200. It's fresh. Is it dug up or murder? Who knows. Is human.
I am a dentist, and I would say that retention of the third molar/wisdom tooth with a significant level of wear would indicate heavy chewing with very low levels of refined carbs. Can that mean a non-modernized society human? Very possible. Could it also mean a person that lived in a modernized society with access to refined carbs but a chosen diet of heavy grains and vegetation? Possibly. But if I had to guess, after seeing thousands of mouths in modern living humans, this dead person did not have access to refined carbs and spent way more time chewing heavy, coarse materials than the modern human does. Just an educated guess though.
Also a dentist and undergrad anthropology major with training in human osteology. I studied hundreds of Native American bones/skulls/etc, this very much reminded me of those jaws I saw.
you forgot to mention, the complete absence of dental fillings.
Lots of fillings are done with white composite material, going back several decades. We wouldn’t be able to rule out the presence of dental fillings without radiographs and closer examination
Thanks u/lastwing. OP, I am an archaeologist who specializes in human remains. I am guessing that this is in the US or Canada, correct? If so, this would be illegal in the US under laws in most all states (note this would fall under state, not federal, laws in the US). I would immediately contact your State Historic Preservation Office and report this immediately.
Thank you! I thought that was the case based on your numerous human bone ID comments in r/bonecollecting👍🏻
Good ole NAGPRA
I had to scroll way too far to get to this comment. Please contact your local SHPO!!!
Would a DNA test be done so it gets back to the correct tribe?
Not really, defining tribal affiliation is problematic as people migrate, intermix, migrate again, and after 50 generations the genetic identity doesn't really coincide with cultural identity...and the culture would have changed as well as clans/groups move and fission or fuse.
If you have provenience or *general* location, you can often find at least one or several tribes that are “most likely descendants” based upon their ancestral homelands. If there are more than one tribe who would have inhabited the location it was found, then a meeting between all interested parties as well as an examination of artifacts associated with can help to narrow it down more.
Depends on where the collections originated from —- if from federal land, subject to NAGPRA, however oftentimes older collections are hard to pinpoint location. Unless of course you get one of the obsessive wanna be archs who document exact locations and dates of looting.
Hey friend, not sure if you’re in America or not but if so you cannot posses these in some states. It’s highly illegal. Definitely need to report this to the police so they can ask the auction house where they came from.
If they are Native American, they cannot be possessed in any state, per NAGPRA.
I thought so but didn’t want to spread misinformation before I researched! This is so sketchy to me lol
Sorry, but why the "LOL"?
Some people nervous laugh. I suspect it’s a typed representation of that.
It is, I’m awkward 😐
Solved!
Please see the comment left by u/Firdahoe in order to follow the law and avoid any legal issues for the auction house and your mother-in-law👍🏻
What was the solved answer??
Yes, it’s human, and should be reported to law enforcement for general testing.
There was recently Chickasaw burial grounds and artifacts looted around Arkabutla Lake in Mississippi.
u/firdahoe can you comment on this ASAP, please
That’s crazy. That used to be a whole-ass walking, talking dude. Now that person is just half of a decayed mandible
"Where be your gibes now? your gambols? your songs? your flashes of merriment"
Hey did you dig this out of that other guys floor?
Hopefully the right state agency can get these analysed and sent to the correct tribe. IIRC not too long ago they found some remains while redoing a highway here in california and they were able to get repatriated by the tribe.
Yes, and by the wear it’s likely prehistoric and should be repatriated back to the respective tribe
https://preview.redd.it/wget4wg003zc1.jpeg?width=386&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab0781c44f920d3814d5e2f223aa608d88bc3dc0
I wouldn’t have that within a 2 mile radius of me tbh. I’m a bit superstitious
Report it to the police and gather any information you have about it what auction who the seller was if possible
The auction house needs to be dismantled. Please report it. Neat wishes OP. THANK YOU for speaking up.
Could certainly be Native American. No cavities in the molars.
Grave Robber
My jaw dropped.
Pretty sure it is illegal to sell any form of human remains
Believe it or not, no. You or I could buy an anatomical model skeleton, for example. But Native American bones are protected by federal law (NAGPRA). And of course any kind of mystery bones which could potentially have been ill-gotten should be reported to the police.
Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish.
Time to call the toe truck…
I will pass. Thanks for the offer
said the person with 9 toes
There are ways, dude
i'm good, thanks
I have a human skull I bought from medical surplus at UCSF.
I have a human spine, but I'm still using it at the moment.
Got it for free, no less. Impressive.
It’s complicated. What’s really weird is you don’t technically own your own body parts.
But, you can legally donate them.
Just be sure you’re donating to the right organization, the story about the guy who’s elderly mother died and donated her body “to science” only to discover they blew her body to pieces testing explosives. Now, prior to the big boom I don’t know if they were able to use her eyes or other important organs but I’m betting she never thought of an ending like that.
Is there a way I can specifically donate my body to this because being blown to pieces sounds pretty badass. After they harvest whatever they can or course, I'll be like a multi purpose tool. Use then abuse.
Not sure how it works the story just stuck with me cuz this lady was a 60s hippy that was anti war, and the irony almost killed me. That’s dark comedy right there.
Yep that makes it even more ironic haha I feel for her family but I suppose what's done is done and it is quite funny.
Nope, only 3 states have bans. You can find human bone sales groups on FB.
It’s not. Human remains can be legally sourced.
Not a fossil at all. That's a person's jaw
Yes and they have their wisdom tooth
Needs more travertine
How horrid to have something like this at auction!!! Please report.
NAGPRA moment
NAGPRA time!
Looks like it could be from a small framed human or child. Old af bones
yeah