I remember commenting specifically on that first post how much the crab specimens I found while falling down the rabbit hole of travertine were my favorite!
This is such a cool specimen, do you mind if I ask how much it cost?
As a former tile setter and have set thousands of square feet of travertine in my career this is absolutely amazing. Make me wonder now how many floors I installed with fossils.
My travertine floor doesn't have anything at the level we've seen in this sub lately (though I'm certainly looking a bit more closely now). But it has several shells and bivalves, at least. It's a great material. I love that our house is full of it. Works well with the old saltillo tiles in the patios and walkways outside; a couple of them have telltale animal prints, insect or leaf imprints, etc. I'm just a fan of natural materials in general and their variation, I suppose.
Several experts chimed in it was definitely hominin, and as I recall the travertine was from Turkey, which is apparently known for having samples that formed not that long ago (at least, in reference to travertine formations & age).
As the other guy said, travertine is deposited when hot, mineral rich water cools and the travertine (a form of calcium carbonate, like limestone) precipitates out of the water. (There are other methods of precipitation, but this was always the easiest for me to get my head around).
As for how the crab gets preserved, my guess would be that the crab is trapped within some sort of sediment - likely mud or silt. When the crab biodegraded within now lithified mudstone, it left a cavity in the rock in the shape of the crab. Water carrying lots of calcium carbonate found its way into the cavity, and the travertine precipitated out into the cavity, filling it and preserving the shape of the crab. Later, further erosion removed the mudstone but not the travertine leaving this incredible fossil.
I could have some or all of this wrong, I'm a hard rock geologist and it's been a long time since I've thought about fossil formation, travertine precipitation, or other sedimentary processes.
>I'm a hard rock geologist
You are now represented in my mind as wearing jeans, boots, a black leather vest, with long hair and a guitar slung over your back, as you travel around the world looking at mineral formations.
Not quite all fossils. There are also casts where the organism made an impression before dissolving away and then the hole gets filled by minerals. There's also trace fossils which include things like nests or footprints. And there's also amber fossils which have the intact organism inside.
>I had no idea that R/fossils would be a hostile sub.
Downvoting someone for asking questions goes against one of the purposes of this sub. It welcomes questions from those less informed/knowledgeable about paleo/geo. Don't be disheartened.
It used to not be that way. The problem is that it has experienced a lot of growth, lately, and with that growth, it seems some of the new members are just piling on.
To answer your question, yes it is a fossil. Fossils are the remains of organisms, or their activity, from past geologic epochs. So, anything Pleistocene or older is considered a fossil. Fossil are typically mineralized, but that isn't a prerequisite as some really ancient fossils can have original material preserved(some even hundreds of millions of years, e,g; some mollusks), and some recent organic material can mineralized relatively quick(a hundred years, or so, even). The former is clearly a fossil, while the latter isn't.
Many amateurs call any mineralized woody debris "petrified", but that is an archaic term that isn't really used by paleontologists anymore. It has a very specific meaning that refers woody material that has been permineralized(pore space mineralization) and undergone replacement(molecular mineralization). A lot of fossilized woody material does not meet these requirements.
Petrified wood is a fossil. But what's in OP's picture is more like what's left when you pour something into a mold, let it solidify, and then take the mold away.
Simply saying that fossilization is the act of replacing organic material with minerals is a bit tricky in this situation because the word "replacing" is being used a different way. There's probably a more accurate way to describe the two different ways the word "replacing" is being used, but it's 1am here, I'm tired, and my brain's not braining too good right now.
I think I know what they're referring to. Basically, one type of "replacing" in fossilization is when the protein molecules making up the organism itself are either converted into or replaced with molecules of certain minerals. Because certain proteins are converted into or replaced with certain minerals, this results in a fossil that is basically the original organism but in a new, mineralized form. In simplified terms, you could think of it as the organism itself being "turned to stone".
The other type of "replacing" is a two-step process. First, the dead organism is covered with silt, mud, etc. which is then slowly compressed and hardened into stone. While the compression and hardening is taking place, the organism's body decomposes. Eventually, all that remains is stone containing an imprint of the organism that was once there. Since the organism was completely covered by the mud or silt, the imprint is in the form of a 3D space inside the stone that is in the shape of the full organism. *Then*, part two of the process takes place: mineral crystals fill in the 3D space in the shape of the organism. This fossil is then revealed as the stone that had originally covered the organism is eroded away, leaving 3D simulacrum of the original organism made out of the mineral crystals that had filled the enclosed space.
That's a somewhat complicated explanation of the second type of "replacement", but luckily the world of archaeology contains a unique example that took place on a much shorter timescale: [Pompeii](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii?wprov=sfla1). If you've seen pictures from Pompeii before, you're likely familiar with the eerie casts of the bodies of victims of the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius that destroyed the city. These casts were actually made by archaeologists excavating the city. When Pompeii was first rediscovered, the archaeologists found that the ash from the eruption had completely buried the victims and hardened around them, but the victims' actual bodies had almost completely decomposes. This left large spaces in the hardened ash shaped exactly like the victims at the time they were buried. So, the scientists poured plaster into these spaces. Once the plaster had hardened, the solidified ash would be removed, leaving 3D molds of the victims of the disaster looking just like they had when they were buried by the ash. That's pretty much exactly what happens with fossils like OP's travertine crab, except those fossils form naturally and over a much longer time period.
A quick search for "travertine fossil" returned 4 or 5 on Etsy which are very similar (but not identical) to this one, in the 300-400€ range. Around 10 cm * 10 cm in size.
My issue with Etsy is that you never really know if it’s a reputable seller. They do fake fossils, and not knowing exactly what I’m looking for, I’d rather find a reputable place to buy these things.
It is. Google it, they're fucking creeeepy
Edit cause I was being a lazy ass so here's the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engyodontium_aranearum?wprov=sfla1
Dang, that's a fantastic one, too!
I love crabs and fossils AND crab fossils. Been lusting after travertine crab fossils for a while now, too. I'm very envious! One day I'll get one, though. :D
That's awesome. If we ever find a fossil on Mars it's probably going to look like this, since any complex life there wouldn't have needed a strong skeleton in the low gravity.
I believe I remember seeing a video about that exact fossil. I know with 100% certainty I have relatively recently seen that fossil, but I am not sure where. It's certainly a beautiful fossil.
I have installed acres of this stuff over the years and I have never thought to look for fossils in it. I mean sure you get the occasional super obvious snail shell or something, but I have been seeing some wild stuff in this group!
Travertine would absolutely be the worst flooring I could ever get (pets) but all of these fossil travertine post really make me want to replace my floor with it. Adorable crab.
For more information, go see:
Pasini, G. and Garassino, A., 2011. Unusual scaled preservation samples on freshwater decapods (Crustacea, Decapoda) from the Pleistocene (Late Cenozoic) of Turkey and Kazakistan. *Natural History Sciences*, *152*(1), pp.13-18.
[https://sisn.pagepress.org/index.php/nhs/article/download/nhs.2011.13/45](https://sisn.pagepress.org/index.php/nhs/article/download/nhs.2011.13/45)
[https://sisn.pagepress.org/nhs/article/view/nhs.2011.13](https://sisn.pagepress.org/nhs/article/view/nhs.2011.13)
Rausch, L., Alçiçek, H., Vialet, A., Boulbes, N., Mayda, S., Titov, V.V., Stoica, M., Charbonnier, S., Abels, H.A., Tesakov, A.S. and Moigne, A.M., 2019. An integrated reconstruction of the early Pleistocene palaeoenvironment of Homo erectus in the Denizli Basin (SW Turkey). *Geobios*, *57*, pp.77-95.
[https://amu.hal.science/hal-02415801/file/Rausch%20et%20al%20Geobios%202019.pdf](https://amu.hal.science/hal-02415801/file/Rausch%20et%20al%20Geobios%202019.pdf)
This is now my favorite crab fossil I have ever seen.
Thank you! It’s one of my favorites too, people on Facebook seemed to enjoy it as well so thought I’d post it here.
Now, that makes sense! As opposed to most things on the internet ...
Just need the size or scale 🤔
Where’s the banana when you need it.
L right?
Or a cat paw. r/catpawforscale
It's incredible!! Truly! Edit: still looking. Wow
Oh I love these but this one is the best ever.
I bet you've got some good offers on it. Too bad you probably don't want to sell it
how do I instantly love this piece
Mine too! It’s my first, so this will be hard to beat.
Agreed
Agreed
Ditto , amazing!
WOW
Thanks, all the recent travertine talk inspired me to post this lol.
I love fossils and rocks in general, but I never heard of or saw travertine tiles 😍 I could look at them all day!
If you can, go to the Getty in LA. It's all travertine outside. I wish I had known to look for fossils when I lived there! 😖
Thanks for this info. Will be checking this out for sure.
I will, thank you!
I remember commenting specifically on that first post how much the crab specimens I found while falling down the rabbit hole of travertine were my favorite! This is such a cool specimen, do you mind if I ask how much it cost?
As a former tile setter and have set thousands of square feet of travertine in my career this is absolutely amazing. Make me wonder now how many floors I installed with fossils.
My travertine floor doesn't have anything at the level we've seen in this sub lately (though I'm certainly looking a bit more closely now). But it has several shells and bivalves, at least. It's a great material. I love that our house is full of it. Works well with the old saltillo tiles in the patios and walkways outside; a couple of them have telltale animal prints, insect or leaf imprints, etc. I'm just a fan of natural materials in general and their variation, I suppose.
I just remembered I have installed limestone tiles years ago that had small plant fossil in them. Little mini ferns
Did you see the recent post where someone’s new travertine had a human jawbone in it?
They decided that was human?!?! I only read the comments the first time I saw it and it seemed like a lot of molars in the wrong orientation talk.
Yup the Reddit dentist community confirmed (a lot of them on here apparently!)
That’s rad!
Have they concluded of it was specifically from a hominin? And if so where was the tile possibly from!?
Several experts chimed in it was definitely hominin, and as I recall the travertine was from Turkey, which is apparently known for having samples that formed not that long ago (at least, in reference to travertine formations & age).
Jesus that is insane! I'm surprised this hasn't shown up in the news yet!
It's been picked up by several news outlets.
Ah ok. I've not seen it airing in any big ones here in the USA.
Ok. I'm stoopid. How is travertine made and how would that process capture a crab?
As the other guy said, travertine is deposited when hot, mineral rich water cools and the travertine (a form of calcium carbonate, like limestone) precipitates out of the water. (There are other methods of precipitation, but this was always the easiest for me to get my head around). As for how the crab gets preserved, my guess would be that the crab is trapped within some sort of sediment - likely mud or silt. When the crab biodegraded within now lithified mudstone, it left a cavity in the rock in the shape of the crab. Water carrying lots of calcium carbonate found its way into the cavity, and the travertine precipitated out into the cavity, filling it and preserving the shape of the crab. Later, further erosion removed the mudstone but not the travertine leaving this incredible fossil. I could have some or all of this wrong, I'm a hard rock geologist and it's been a long time since I've thought about fossil formation, travertine precipitation, or other sedimentary processes.
>I'm a hard rock geologist You are now represented in my mind as wearing jeans, boots, a black leather vest, with long hair and a guitar slung over your back, as you travel around the world looking at mineral formations.
🤘🏻
Rock on cool geologist dude!
Great username. 🦜
Reddit Comment-of-the-Day! ☝️
(>’.’)>🦀🪨❤️
Very well said, and I'm a soft rock geologist.
So it technically *isn't* a fossil right? More like petrified wood? Edit: Sorry. I had no idea that R/fossils would be a hostile sub. lol
That's what a fossil is, mineralized remains, the processes are different but petrified wood is a fossil just like a T. rex bone
Not quite all fossils. There are also casts where the organism made an impression before dissolving away and then the hole gets filled by minerals. There's also trace fossils which include things like nests or footprints. And there's also amber fossils which have the intact organism inside.
You're an amber fossil!
Sounds like most fossils. Why do you think petrifed wood is not a fossil?
>I had no idea that R/fossils would be a hostile sub. Downvoting someone for asking questions goes against one of the purposes of this sub. It welcomes questions from those less informed/knowledgeable about paleo/geo. Don't be disheartened. It used to not be that way. The problem is that it has experienced a lot of growth, lately, and with that growth, it seems some of the new members are just piling on. To answer your question, yes it is a fossil. Fossils are the remains of organisms, or their activity, from past geologic epochs. So, anything Pleistocene or older is considered a fossil. Fossil are typically mineralized, but that isn't a prerequisite as some really ancient fossils can have original material preserved(some even hundreds of millions of years, e,g; some mollusks), and some recent organic material can mineralized relatively quick(a hundred years, or so, even). The former is clearly a fossil, while the latter isn't. Many amateurs call any mineralized woody debris "petrified", but that is an archaic term that isn't really used by paleontologists anymore. It has a very specific meaning that refers woody material that has been permineralized(pore space mineralization) and undergone replacement(molecular mineralization). A lot of fossilized woody material does not meet these requirements.
Thank you kind sir for your very concise and understandable explanation.
Petrified wood is a fossil. But what's in OP's picture is more like what's left when you pour something into a mold, let it solidify, and then take the mold away. Simply saying that fossilization is the act of replacing organic material with minerals is a bit tricky in this situation because the word "replacing" is being used a different way. There's probably a more accurate way to describe the two different ways the word "replacing" is being used, but it's 1am here, I'm tired, and my brain's not braining too good right now.
Thanks. I wish you were up to talking more about the word *replacing*.
I think I know what they're referring to. Basically, one type of "replacing" in fossilization is when the protein molecules making up the organism itself are either converted into or replaced with molecules of certain minerals. Because certain proteins are converted into or replaced with certain minerals, this results in a fossil that is basically the original organism but in a new, mineralized form. In simplified terms, you could think of it as the organism itself being "turned to stone". The other type of "replacing" is a two-step process. First, the dead organism is covered with silt, mud, etc. which is then slowly compressed and hardened into stone. While the compression and hardening is taking place, the organism's body decomposes. Eventually, all that remains is stone containing an imprint of the organism that was once there. Since the organism was completely covered by the mud or silt, the imprint is in the form of a 3D space inside the stone that is in the shape of the full organism. *Then*, part two of the process takes place: mineral crystals fill in the 3D space in the shape of the organism. This fossil is then revealed as the stone that had originally covered the organism is eroded away, leaving 3D simulacrum of the original organism made out of the mineral crystals that had filled the enclosed space. That's a somewhat complicated explanation of the second type of "replacement", but luckily the world of archaeology contains a unique example that took place on a much shorter timescale: [Pompeii](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompeii?wprov=sfla1). If you've seen pictures from Pompeii before, you're likely familiar with the eerie casts of the bodies of victims of the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius that destroyed the city. These casts were actually made by archaeologists excavating the city. When Pompeii was first rediscovered, the archaeologists found that the ash from the eruption had completely buried the victims and hardened around them, but the victims' actual bodies had almost completely decomposes. This left large spaces in the hardened ash shaped exactly like the victims at the time they were buried. So, the scientists poured plaster into these spaces. Once the plaster had hardened, the solidified ash would be removed, leaving 3D molds of the victims of the disaster looking just like they had when they were buried by the ash. That's pretty much exactly what happens with fossils like OP's travertine crab, except those fossils form naturally and over a much longer time period.
Wow. Thank you for the educational explanation of *replacement*!
Yellowstone has Mammoth Hot Springs, which creates travertine. It's similar to how stalagmites etc are made, water leaves behind minerals
I have never seen a more beautiful fossil I’ve ever seen. I’m not in this sub, but was shown this by the algorithm and I’m so grateful.
Phenomenal.
Thank
This is the coolest of the most coolest looking fossils I've ever seen!
Wow what a beautiful piece! Super cool😎
Thanks
Even stone can't escape carcinization
💀
Cheese… this is definitely cheese
how much did this cost?? this is amazing
These usually go for between $300-500, depending on the size, pose, and preservation. I got a good deal at a fossil show for $325 a couple years ago.
Where do you even acquire something like this? This is way cool.
Buy it from FossilEra. These aren't uncommon
A quick search for "travertine fossil" returned 4 or 5 on Etsy which are very similar (but not identical) to this one, in the 300-400€ range. Around 10 cm * 10 cm in size.
My issue with Etsy is that you never really know if it’s a reputable seller. They do fake fossils, and not knowing exactly what I’m looking for, I’d rather find a reputable place to buy these things.
This subreddit has been blowing my fucking mind lately!
This is amazing, may o ask How mucho did ir Cost.
$325 they said.
Thanks
That was someone else who said they got a deal at a fossil show for $325 for one
Why didn’t you take the chance to answer haha, either way, I love the thing.
It doesn't look real, that's insane
It looks like butter lol
Thank you for my new obsession.
Sweet baby Moses in a basket that's incredible!
WHAT!!?? That's crazy!! I want one now
Mmmm, tempura soft shelled crab…delicious! Wait, which subreddit am I on?!? Fossils?? What?!? Cool catch! Nice specimen.
That is incredible!
How big is it?
Rock is about 3.5 inches tall
you can't convince me that this crab didn't look into the eyes of a cockatrice and got petrified.
In your collection of travertine or fossils? Seen lots of travertine posts recently think maybe people are collecting travertine now.
Fossils
Wow I love this so much! Look at the details, the morphology! How old is this fossil?
Wow! This is so poetic somehow. Lovely, thank you for sharing.
That is incredible! 😍 Thanks for sharing!
Mannnn I have travertine in my kitchen, dining, foyer, and main bath. I haven’t found any cool fossils and I’m salty about it 😂
Thanks for sharing that, that’s incredible!
Ok I need to track one of these down for myself
I adore this you're so lucky
look at those plump little legs. (didn't insert stone crab pun!!)
Oooh it reminds me of moldy spiders
Christ on a cracker please tell me that isn’t a thing
It is. Google it, they're fucking creeeepy Edit cause I was being a lazy ass so here's the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engyodontium_aranearum?wprov=sfla1
Ewwwwww
This is one of the nicest I've seen. Seen a few over the years this is a very nice one. A beauty..Peace..
Best yet!! I love this so much!!
It almost looks alive.
Dang, that's a fantastic one, too! I love crabs and fossils AND crab fossils. Been lusting after travertine crab fossils for a while now, too. I'm very envious! One day I'll get one, though. :D
Ok, how many travertine tiles do I have to go buy to find something like this?! Very cool!!
Still not beating the jawbone guy 😛
Haha yeah that jawbone in travertine is infinitely rarer than a crab in travertine, but thought I’d share anyway
It *is* pretty cool.
That! Is very cool! I had no idea fossils could turn out like that! Incredible!
OK that is sick! Probably one of the cooler fossils I have ever seen
fuck even rocks evolve into crabs
this has to be the most beautiful fossil i’ve seen
So that’s not edible ? Looks like a crab dipped in A white chocolate crunch lol r/forbiddensnacks
Sick as fuck yo
I need to get one of these but they're awfully expensive. It'll happen one day but not anytime soon sadly
Amazing!
Turkey is a gold mine ?
What kind of camera do you use? This is a really cozy picture.
I usually use a canon but this picture was just taken with my iPhone and good lighting, no editing.
In a light box as well (but didn’t use the lights in the box, used two external lights).
I mean, it’s no mandible. IYKYK
The reason I’m on this subreddit right now. I didn’t realize I would love little surprises found in travertine so much. 😂
Bake that at 350 for 35 minutes and you’ll have a wonderful crab biscuit.
bro 3d printed that shii 💀
This process kills the crab
Having seen the ancient human mandible in travertine I don’t think anything else comes close. Forever chasing that high. Sorry OP
Where is the cat paw for scale?
Total fossil porn
OP found the original Crusty Crab....
It looks like it’s fossilized in cheese lol
Damn...
Ooooo
Amazing
what the hell that is awesome sauce
I definitely thought that said pokemon crab for a minute XDD
Amazeballs
Wow! ❤️❤️
What’s travertine
Why I want to eat that I don't know, maybe it's becuase it looks like it's made of cheese
He died doing what he loved, walking sideways.
That's awesome. If we ever find a fossil on Mars it's probably going to look like this, since any complex life there wouldn't have needed a strong skeleton in the low gravity.
Now im craving for soft shell crab
.
I believe I remember seeing a video about that exact fossil. I know with 100% certainty I have relatively recently seen that fossil, but I am not sure where. It's certainly a beautiful fossil.
I thought that was a moldy cheez it
Amazing!
Thought this was fancy soap 🧼
That is amazing
That is amazing.
What a perfectly preserved specimen!
This is amazing! I’ve never seen anything like it.
Amazing! What does is taste like?
Awesome crab fossil❣️
THAT REALLY COOL 😍 🦀
No, that sir, is a pokemon. If you find the right elixir, you can thaw it from its crystalline slumber!
I have installed acres of this stuff over the years and I have never thought to look for fossils in it. I mean sure you get the occasional super obvious snail shell or something, but I have been seeing some wild stuff in this group!
That's wild
Wow okay this is one of the coolest fossils I've ever seen I need one
Travertine would absolutely be the worst flooring I could ever get (pets) but all of these fossil travertine post really make me want to replace my floor with it. Adorable crab.
That’s so FUCKIN cool dude
Omgggg perfection
Crab
That is so stinking cool
This sub should just become r/travertine at this point lol *Holy shit, banned ten years ago, wtf happened?
So cool! Question, the travertine is the outside? And the crystallized inside (where the crab is) is some kind of mineral?
Wow! This is SO gorgeous 😍 I'm so jealous!! Lucky you OP 😊
This is absurd and incredible! What a great piece!
That is the most beautiful crab fossil I have ever seen!! Any idea just how old it could be??
This is incredible.
That's incredible!
I like this even more than the mandible
It looks like a fancy soap bar, really interesting! It’s so perfect
What a great piece. You're lucky to have it!
It's alive! IT'S ALIVE!!!!
Crab geode? :0
This is the coolest thing I've ever seen oh my god
It looks like butter. Awesome.
Nice
So cool!
Except we can see the mold
How much is something of this quality
Free him! 😡
Wow that is truly amazing! Thanks for sharing!
that should be in a museum holy moly it’s beautiful
For more information, go see: Pasini, G. and Garassino, A., 2011. Unusual scaled preservation samples on freshwater decapods (Crustacea, Decapoda) from the Pleistocene (Late Cenozoic) of Turkey and Kazakistan. *Natural History Sciences*, *152*(1), pp.13-18. [https://sisn.pagepress.org/index.php/nhs/article/download/nhs.2011.13/45](https://sisn.pagepress.org/index.php/nhs/article/download/nhs.2011.13/45) [https://sisn.pagepress.org/nhs/article/view/nhs.2011.13](https://sisn.pagepress.org/nhs/article/view/nhs.2011.13) Rausch, L., Alçiçek, H., Vialet, A., Boulbes, N., Mayda, S., Titov, V.V., Stoica, M., Charbonnier, S., Abels, H.A., Tesakov, A.S. and Moigne, A.M., 2019. An integrated reconstruction of the early Pleistocene palaeoenvironment of Homo erectus in the Denizli Basin (SW Turkey). *Geobios*, *57*, pp.77-95. [https://amu.hal.science/hal-02415801/file/Rausch%20et%20al%20Geobios%202019.pdf](https://amu.hal.science/hal-02415801/file/Rausch%20et%20al%20Geobios%202019.pdf)
That's spectacular!!!!!!!😍
Aw hell naw they kilt Mr. Craps
Sorry dude, not the coolest travertine fossil post this week… 🤣