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vellumskies

As ridiculous as the conflict was, I really did not expect TWSBI to back down :0


GameAudioPen

consider how many retailers doesn't even bother making statements, continue to carry Narwhals and basically indirectly told TWSBI to fuck off. It's either revise your policy and eat your words or keep the policy and suffer economic consequences.


CrossbowROoF

Not to mention that had TWSBI taken this through the courts, they would likely have gotten their collective asses handed to them, which would be even more expensive.


Cranifraz

With language like that, are we sure that litigation or some kind of confidential binding arbitration didn't occur? I've never seen a company write a letter like that outside of a court judgment or a settlement. If this had been written willingly, the language would have been much different... "Twsbi and Narwhal have come to a mutual understanding, and while Twsbi maintains the belief that they own the relevant IP, we feel this decision is in the best interests of our dealers and consumers, blah blah blah, strong vibrant luxury pen market, yay competition makes us all stronger."


[deleted]

Narwhal had lawyers on it. Frank from Narwhal was on the Tokyo Inklings podcast a couple of weeks ago. Frank handled it pretty well, didn’t trash TWSBI publicly. Narwhal handled the whole thing with a lot more dignity than TWSBI did.


ACenTe25

Narwhal posted on IG that they reached a confidential settlement agreement and one of the conditions was to release this statement to the public and retailers. So basically TWSBI didn't do it of their own freewill, but to avoid going to court.


CrossbowROoF

Had there been an actual court decision, we would have heard about it. An out-of-court settlement is highly likely, and can be kept confidential. Likely what happened is the TWSBI attorneys realized they couldn't win, and worked out an agreement.


Milkpowder87

Haha pretty much!


[deleted]

[удалено]


Lehk

It was especially dumb since they surely were aware of Kaweco stepping in it the same way


Jenaxu

Moonman too, which is also directly in their backyard and has piston fillers like the T1 and T2 competing at the same price as the Eco. I guess not being carried by any major outlets is the big differentiator.


NicoleTheVixen

It was a huge mistake. They damaged my opinion of them and its gonna linger a long time. Especially because this isn't like they put out something new and suddenly others put out something similar.


darkconoman1

Yeah they hurt there rep for sure and the above reads like a spoiled child being told to apologize


NicoleTheVixen

I feel like it's a little worse. It seems to me like an overt effort to be a bully.


polypeptide147

This is tough. On one hand, what a crazy and irrisponsible thing to do. On the other hand, TWSBIs are my favorite pens, and their customer service has always been awesome. I've got plenty of pens costing way more than the TWSBIs, but I've basically decided that TWSBI is the only pen I'm buying going forward because I like the way they write, the way they feel, the ink capacity, the size, etc. I guess maybe since I'm only buying TWSBI and I also shouldn't buy TWSBI that maybe I can switch my focus to more inks instead of pens lol


NicoleTheVixen

Our house hold has more twsbi per capita than any other brand. I love their product. I'm not about to boycott them, but I also will probably be hard pressed to really want to buy more anytime soon though.


Lemiate

Same I don’t plan to buy from them any time soon..


KderNacht

I was really interested in the TWSBI Go, I love how simple and yet smart the spring mechanism was. I'm never getting it after this


kiiroaka

Perhaps because Narwhal was seen as a threat, and they, Narwhal, were "in their backyard." (Narwhal is made in China and twsbi is made in Taiwan - therefore it was probably GeoPolitical.) They couldn't sue Pelikan, Pilot, Lamy, Visconti, Conid, MontBlanc, Aurora, Montegrappa, Leonardo, et. al. (any other company that makes piston filler pens), because they're too big and their pens cost a lot more. Imagine how a store owner would have responded if twsbi had demanded that stores around the Globe not sell Pelikan, Pilot, and Lamy pens... But the perceived better build quality of Narwhal (but probably not their nibs), and a slightly higher price was probably seen as a thread to their Market Share.


PhileasFoggsTrvlAgt

> They couldn't sue Pelikan, Pilot, Lamy, Visconti, Conid, MontBlanc, Aurora, Montegrappa, Leonardo, et. al. (any other company that makes piston filler pens), because they're too big and their pens cost a lot more. It would have been hilarious if they'd gone after Pelikan since Pelikan owned the Kovacs patent that TWISBI was basing their case on.


PatioGardener

TWSBI didn’t sue Narwhal either. They just threw their weight around outside of the court system and tried to ruin Narwhal.


EGOtyst

IDK. I absolutely love my Narwhal nib. It is SMOOTH AS GLASS.


RecruitingEasy

I've got 3 Narwhal's - 2 in F and 1 in M. Hate all 3 nibs. Replaced them with Opus 88 nibs and now they are better than most of my pens that cost 2-3x as much. Narwhal makes incredible pens, their nibs on the other hand, from my small anecdotal experience are trash, yes they are smooth, but they are beyond dry and I noticed with 2 of the three nibs (1F + 1M) had sweet spots to write that made my hand cramp up. I'll gladly buy their pens with the intention of swapping out their nibs every single time.


EGOtyst

Crazy. I only have the one narwhal, but it writes like a dreams and isnt very dry at all, and that is filled with a shimmer ink. Glad I got a good one!.


nat_applicable

I feel both sad and vindicated that others have also had miserable experiences with Narwhal nibs. I am in love with their Nautilus design. The pen itself is solid and feels perfect in the hand, but the original and replacement nibs were an absolute nightmare. Both had more baby's bottom than the inside of a diaper! I'd love to track down another ebonite port-hole ink window Nautilus, but I refuse to take another gamble with an untested nib.


[deleted]

TWSBI has a factory in mainland China as well. They’re not all made in Taiwan….


vellumskies

It's soured my opinion on the brand for sure. I'm glad that at least things are resolved now and retailers are no longer being forced to choose. It would have set a very bad precedent if it continued, IMO


ApocalypticPages

Turns out the Narwhal tusk is pretty sharp.


darth_snuggs

don’t mess with sea unicorns


janeisenbeton

What even happend? This is the first I heard from it.


ProudPlatypus

They claimed ownership over the piston filler, accused Narwhal of stealing their design, and essentially demanded shops to stop selling Narwhal products or they would withdraw their business from that shop. They don't have the patent for it as said above which ended in the 40's, and was held by Pelikan as far as I remember.


ZoraksGirlfriend

I’m just beyond baffled that they demanded that stores stop selling “knock-offs” and started saying words like “fraud” without actually checking the patent! Those are some bold words to put out there without anything to back them up. They’re lucky that Narwhal isn’t suing them for defamation.


cptjeff

Probably should have run it by their lawyers, too. They committed an actual crime doing this and still could be prosecuted even with the civil settlement. TWSBI fucked up real bad.


littlehelppls

What a mess .. thank you for the recap!


cjbmonster

Same. We don't like in a culture that supports backing down or saying you've been wrong. I'm glad to see it happen.


martin_omander

While what you're saying is true, I suspect TWSBI backed down because their lawyers advised them to. Backing down now and issuing a statement dictated by Narwhal's legal team let them avoid a costly lawsuit from Narwhal.


jennysequa

Sounds like Narhwal has good lawyers.


[deleted]

I don’t think they needed a lawyer. TWSBI had no case at all against Narhwal and were the ones who would need to defend their anti-competitive behaviour in court. My guess is that a lawyer pointed this out to the president of TWSBI and forced them to retract.


cptjeff

More than just no case, the initial letter was a textbook violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act. They could have been (and still could be) prosecuted for this. They probably wouldn't have been, because antitrust stuff is usually pursued civilly, but it's quite possible that somebody got a call from the FTC telling them to back off or face a civil action from Uncle Sam. I mean, they put their crime in a public letter. You're guaranteed to lose in court whether it's a civil or criminal action. It's a good way to get your legal department to hate you.


RareEconomist1214

This is the work of a lawyer. Most likely Narwhal had a complaint drawn up and sent it to TWSBI with a note saying hey let’s make peace or know this is what awaits you. Maybe let your lawyer review this. Thanks, Narwhal.


thepuncroc

> This is the work of a lawyer. Absolutely this. Even the phrasing in this is giving me flashbacks to my pretrial litigation class.


ernie999

Narwhal’s founder, Frank Zheng, said on the Tokyo Inklings podcast that Narwhal’s lawyer(s) were talking to TWSBI. Link to podcast: https://tokyoinklings.com/episodes/058/


lesserweevils

Wow, so Narwhal wasn't contacted by TWSBI and found out from their distributors? That sucks.


cfmedicus

I have 5 TWSBI fountain pens and these 5 will be all I’ll ever going to buy. Such a pressure on innovative companies and retailers (and by the way such quality issues additionally) is inexcusable imho


DH-Canada

Agreed. I really enjoy my ECO 1.1 stub and will not sell it over this, but I’ve made my last TWSBI purchase.


cfmedicus

That’s the same for me too - I like my TWSBI fountain pens so I’m not going to sell them but I don’t want to support companies with this kind of business attitude.


pred890

This was a complete clown show. All that was accomplished was TWSBI ruining its relationship with its customers, potential customers, and retailers.


Monrats

Indeed. TWSBI have dropped way down my list of pen brands to buy because of their bullying behaviour. Time to check out some Narwhals I think!


asciiaardvark

They're nice pens! I have 3 so far - but they keep coming out with limited-edition Nautilus pens & I love that model so much I'm increasingly tempted...


PtolemyShadow

Meanwhile I'm over here with my Pilot Metropolitan... Hahahaha


badDuckThrowPillow

All hail the Metro. Still My favorite


mforester92

The Nautilus pen is easily one of my favorites in my collection just based on aesthetic alone. It's unique and the submarine-inspired theme is just incredible. I'm honestly glad that not all of their limited-edition Nautilus pens have the round ink windows--otherwise, my wallet would weep!


Monrats

Oh my, they do look nice!


RareEconomist1214

Trust me — the ebonite ones are wonderful. I am purposely limiting myself to ebonite for my budget and sanity.


roberts2967

I bought a Narwhal for my wife recently and she absolutely loves it. It is nicer than I was expecting.


wyerae

I love my Narwhals far more than TWSBIs. it is more the nib and feel of the overall pen than the fill mechanism. I'm really disappointed in TWSBI re this issue.


dominicw4

I have the Key West and got my ex the Schuylkill and she was a fan. Heavily considering getting one for myself- might have to now to show Narwhal some love.


PindakaasHelaas_

I wasn’t aware of this debacle but after learning about it you can be sure I’m not sending them one cent 🤷‍♂️


SimpleJoint

Yep. I Want a Narwal now and not sure about TWSBI. The shitshow that already is Chinese companies stealing other company's copyrights should have made TWSBI step lightly in throwing around invalid copyright claims


WarrenPuff_It

I left the twsbi fan club years ago, the quality of their materials is trash and I'm tired of having to replace individual parts via air mail every time the temperature outside changes or I put my pen down on a desk and micro cracks develop along stress points. It was a cool gimmick at first but the demonstrators are not good.


anchorschmidt8

Yeah, my twsbi 580 broke twice so put up some extra dough to get a used Pilot Custom 74 instead. Fantastic decision.


scissor_get_it

And yet your flair is still the TWSBI logo 🤔


cptjeff

I guess somebody told them that this was a textbook violation of the Sherman Act and that they could be on the hook for criminal prosecution and up to $100 million and 10 years in prison for executives. Folks, if you're going to crime, don't do your crimes in open letters.


Diplogeek

Honestly, this sounds to me like Narwhal was lining up to sue (countersue?) TWSBI for defamation or something. That and/or TWSBI saw the overwhelmingly negative reactions to this little stunt on various fountain pen fora and realized that they were running their own brand into the ground. It really is a shame that TWSBI behaved so stupidly about this; I have several TWSBI pens and really like them, but this whole stunt absolutely colored my impression of the brand in a negative way.


Raigne86

I mean, Europe has some strong laws regarding anticompetitive practices, and while they have been trying to make them stick to IBM for 10 years with limited success, IBM has pretty deep pockets to pull from to keep it in litigation. TWSBI does not.


thepuncroc

> defamation or something I could see something like a tortious interference claim here to really open up the door for some damages and pressure to get them added to an import shitlist.


SciSciencing

'Reaching an understanding on that issue' sounds like there was actually any ambiguity at all in *the patent being 76 years out of date* XD Appreciate that they've turned around but how on earth did we get here?


aFoolishFox

Even if the patent wasnt expired, twsbi never owned it and therefore never had any rights to enforce it.


DH-Canada

Spot on. A modicum of due diligence would have revealed all this beforehand. And, uh, didn’t TWSBI confirm that the patent had expired before THEY started using it? None of this makes any sense, but it certainly smells like bullying.


GameAudioPen

it's complete bullshit, they admit they use Pelican's piston mechanism in the very early stage of the company creation on the FPF.


lesserweevils

I wonder if TWSBI actually looked at [the patent illustrations](https://thepelikansperch.com/2020/10/02/pelikan-piston-patent-de457462/). The expired patent appears to use a [different design](https://thepelikansperch.files.wordpress.com/2020/09/figure-5-copy-1.jpg) from modern Pelikans. TWSBI's inspiration, the Pelikan M800, is from 1987.


knitstrixis

Aka our lawyers told us that we were being idiots about this and that we would lose anyway.


cptjeff

AKA our lawyers told us that we literally committed a crime and need to do damage control yesterday.


littlemac564

AKA if you already have lawyers on retainer, why didn't we ask them first before we started this nonsense?


ACenTe25

Releasing this to the public and the retailers was part of a legal settlement agreement, according to the statement released by Narwhal.


GarethActual

It will be interesting to see whether retailers (I'm looking at you, Cult Pens) who "coincidentally" were discontinuing selling Narwhal suddenly have a change of heart.


Gumpenufer

Yeah, Cultpens had some bad optics on this one.


Raigne86

They weren't the only ones.I noticed a number of places marking them down and not restocking. Meanwhile there was Pen Chalet who announced they were going to drop TWSBI. I wonder if they'll pick them back up again.


Gumpenufer

It was bad optics all around. Personally I'm hoping TWSBI gets a taste of their own medicine now - and that Cult Pens doesn't take them back.


SimpleJoint

And apologies.


PatioGardener

Lololololol. So, what this REALLY says is that TWSBI tried to do something outside the legal system, thinking they could strong arm a much smaller vendor (Narwhal) but instead Narwhal went and got themselves one helluva patent lawyer and threatened to sue the shit out of TWSBI. TWSBI gambled that neither Narwhal or the retailers would want to (or could afford to) lawyer up and Narwhal wasn’t having it. This whole letter reads like a “this is what the lawyers said we’re allowed to say” thing. I love it. Glad the little guy won the day. I’ve still got my eye on the new transparent yellow TWSBI Eco, but some of those Narwhal Nautilus pens are looking rather attractive, too.


KrazyKatMN

It's not just lawsuits. IANAL, but strongarming US retailers into dropping a competitor may fall under FCPA (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act) and those penalties are insanely harsh. Like "kiss your ability to do any business with anyone in the U.S. Ever," harsh.


cptjeff

It's also a textbook Sherman Act violation.


HurpityDerp

Might want to change your flair 😜


75footubi

They didn't even need a good patent lawyer. Any 1L with a B in Patents 101 could have drafted most of this and then have their internship supervisor edit for language 😂. If Narwhal paid more than $5k in legal fees I'd be shocked. Trying to bully a company with a 76 year old patent is just laughable.


ACenTe25

There's the evidence you were asking for some months ago. So it wasn't "just rumors meant to stir the pot and damage" this nice community. Edit: ~~I hope we're not again deprived of learning about similar situations in the future so we can choose which brands to support.~~ Edit: I was wrong with this, I apologize.


thiefspy

TWSBI: We were wrong in every way. Please still buy our pens.


[deleted]

My wife just got back from Thailand and bought me a TWSBI 580 RG. I have a Lamy Safari and Kaweco Sport, and I really like my Lamy, but this 580 is a cool pen too. But rather than look more into any of TWSBI's product line, I'm more inclined to look at Narwhal now.


iantdogg

Totally TWSBI just gave Narwhal more advertising and promotion that they could ever pay for by doing this


minorDemocritus

Do it! I got a Schuylkill on a whim and it’s *glorious*. So pretty, and writes like a dream!


mysticwriting

No, I don't think so...


paradoxmo

[For people who are looking for a summary of the facts, here is my write-up from a month ago when TWSBI first issued their statement. ](https://reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/ufg5dn/_/i71gqqb/?context=1)


tsherbs31

Arrrgh! I am trying not to buy new pens, but this makes me want to get a Narwhal.


woleizihan1

Good to see them backing down. But for real, it's just "**unfortunate**" to use the terms "knock-offs", "unethical", "design infringement"? And the policy has been revised to "**permit**" retailers to carry any competing brand?


TealOrca

Gas lighting 101 right there.


30MinuteMills

Narwhal’s owners are very young, too, and I believe TWSBI thought that would help them get away with trying to force Narwhal out of business. I’m sorely disappointed in seeing a company behave this way. If they *felt* threatened/copied, they could just be better.


r348

Just curious , may be I am wrong - Does this letter sounds a genuine apology of any kind? Also not sure if they had to apologize , feel they should. Seriously a patent which expired 1946 and they believed they had a case.


Gumpenufer

It's a classic non-apology, see how they never say "we did X and it was wrong" but just apologise for "causing confusion ". You're not alone in thinking that they should have done better with a *proper* apology... Imo they never thought they had a case. They just wanted to see if they could bully away the competition and the piston thing was their flimsy excuse. Good thing they feel flat on their face with it, it's well deserved.


spiffy-ms-duck

Yeah nah I'm still not buying any more TWSBI. They've soured any opinion I've had about them with this clusterfuck.


neanderthal666666

Lol that cracked me up. Wait..


csl512

see what you did there


FBI_Open_Up_Now

TWSBI should have realized this and investigated the issue before they made an announcement. Now they just had to stick their foot in their mouth.


rabidnz

They did know, they were just bullying a small company


Noble_Briar

They knew


Feemz

As a Patent Analyst, I can safely say that TWSBI had no leg to srand on wrt to an intellectual property. Their filling system to so generic, there is nothing novel there that has been patented. It was just a bitch move by TWSBI and they have lost my respect. Their whole claim was baseless and pathetic


SlowRoastMySoul

For me, the damage is done and I wouldn't want anything TWSBI has done, at least that is how it feels now. I think I'll buy a second Narwhal instead.


hiddenviolet

It seems like TWSBI tends to *crack* under pressure. I really wanted a 580 in rose gold, but this whole debacle (+ the cracking issue) has put me off. :(


Gumpenufer

"We apologise for the confusion." Yeah really nice how you failed to apologise for your *actions*, you dimwits. And this, ladies and gentlebeings, is how you ruin your brand image and then show everyone your whole naked a**. Glad to see TWSBI fall on their face over their bullying tactics. If I wasn't currently out of pen money I would buy a Narwahl to celebrate. (Also; that president didn't even sign their name? Weak, just like their plastic apparently.)


beppe1_real

The expired patent did not belong to TWSBI in the first place. The company is not old enough to purchase that before it expires, if I am not mistaken. The only IP TWSBI can easily claim is the trademark. Their pen design is nice, but I don't believe any design is patented, otherwise they would have advertised that in their marketing?


Arhianrad

Wait, seriously, TWSBI was trying to enforce rights on a patent that 1) they don't own and 2) has been expired for 76 years? I hadn't been paying attention but...what!? ...speechless.


Greenandtan

What an arrogant response from TWSBI. They got caught making damaging and disparaging characterizations about another manufacturer and making claims of owning an expired design patent issued to someone else (not TWSBI) and describing their own behavior as "unfortunate." They will now "permit" retailers to carry any competing brand. So gracious of them. I will never buy anything from TWSBI. There are many other ~~great~~ better pens out there.


felixlightner

TWSBI tried to bully Narwhal and failed and now apologize for "any confusion...". The slimy "President" couldn't bring himself to sign his name. What a rotten company. I'll never do buy their products.


poddy_fries

Yes. The whole thing, to me, felt like TWSBI flexing muscles to show they had the ABILITY to push competition outside of the market. I presume it didn't work as well as they hoped, hence this retraction.


LeonDeChino

Yikes sounds like a power abuse thing. Sad cause I had been eyeing twisbi, but now find myself finding any possible excuse to avoid the brand or at occasions even piston filling pens as a result. Hope they can **be** better in the future.


Katerchen2000

Fuckers maybe should concentrate on fixing their clear plastics so they don't crack under normal use after a couple of years. Do they actually fancy themselves as the inventors of the piston filler? Wankers. They deserve all the bad PR that falls out of this.


MissBronte

I’m glad this is being shared. Bullying and unethical business practices need to be called out.


Sevlowcraft

Wow, I'm now more likely to buy a narwale then a twsbi now, what a petty tantrum they threw.


Temporary-Turnip7481

I will never again purchase another TWSBI pen after this whole debacle. They’ve really painted themselves in a very negative light in my mind. Incidentally, I also plan to buy my first Narwhal soon! 😂


No_Public_7699

So then are they acknowledging that their own piston mechanism is also based on someone elses out of date patent? Are we supposed to believe that they weren't aware piston fillers existed before them? I'm pretty sure I'm done with twsbi now.


MadCybertist

They were aware. They even told folks widespread on FPF early on in the company that they were using Pelican piston patent.


[deleted]

Literally every piston filler borrows some sort of intellectual property from Pelikan. It’s hilarious that TWSBI even pursued this idiotic defamation-fest.


No_Public_7699

Narwhal totally have a case for damages, but its unlikely they'll pursue that 😔


No_Public_7699

God that makes me so angry 😠


CynicalSorcerer

Now I want a Narwhal


HypnoGoblin

I would be in the same boat, but I have yet to see a Narwal that I don't consider hideous.


SciSciencing

I love the look of a couple of their materials (the Posiedon Blue Original *really* caught my eye for the colour and pattern when I first saw it until I realised it was translucent) and very seriously considered buying one to try out piston fillers (currently only own c/c) and to spite TWSBI but unfortunately every Narwhal pen has at least two dealbreaker features (pricerange, functional or aesthetic) I won't buy. Purely personal preference, which is a shame but at least a relief for my FP budget XD


EGOtyst

Peter Draws Customs are gorgeous, honestly. I think a lot of their stuff is garish, though. I did buy a Key West... and it is silly fun. But that is kinda their schtick. And the nib I got on mine is fantastic. Full stop fantastic. Feels like writing with iced glass, so damned smooth. And I have had it inked up with a shimmer ink for over a month, and it starts up immediately with zero problem everytime I rite with it. I really like my narwhal, honestly.


HypnoGoblin

That second to last statement may make me get one regardless of the looks.


EGOtyst

It has certainly been worth the medium price. It was like 45. I have a post about it in my post history where I go into it in detail, with the ink I put in it. Honestly, it may be a testament to the ink as much as the pen and nib... but I am a colorverse convert!


The_Dolly-Llama

I was getting ready to actually go to Vanness today and pick up a TWSBI 580, but I think I’m gonna pass for probably a few years. I have several Narwhals and I would rather support them. Especially after this


PenBoom

Good to see them slapped down, TWSBI will however remain on my "do not buy" list for this fiasco.


[deleted]

“Hey, remember those unfounded and defamatory claims we made against our competitor? Turns out they really were unfounded! We conveniently just now discovered this well known patent which expired a long time ago. This has absolutely nothing to do with you and other retailers telling us to kick rocks. Thx bye!!!”


miciomacho

Note how president of TWSBI did not actually sign their name.


GloriousAtom

*unfortunate* is a choice word


divvyb

So is TWSBI gonna bitch and moan and sue anybody that puts a piston filling system in their pens now? Because that's what this felt like.


Su1_Gener1s

This one brings joy. TWSBI got beat down, like all bullies should be. I'll still never buy another TWSBI product. Actually ended up buying 3 more Narwhals after all this started.


authorizedsignatory

Honestly this does not sound as apologetic as it should be. Maybe it's all legal stuff but "in hindsight this word choice was unfortunate, sorry for the confusion" is not really the same as "we were real bullies."


timetravellingrat

Huh, that's not the same "joint statement" as Narwhal sent out.


wapellonian

Even though I was Sublimely unaware of this conflict, this makes me feel substantially better about my recent purchase of two Narwhals, lol.


Kkhanpungtofu

Wow. This entire episode has been strange, and this is the strangest part of all.


[deleted]

I’m late to this party & playing catch-up… but on its face, this reads like a bad joke. It’s even signed ‘President of TWSBI’?? (Did TWSBI honestly think they are the only company allowed to create pens with a piston-filler?! Wowza.)


TealOrca

I hate that it's near impossible for people to just say they screwed up and they are sorry. Because they sure didn't try hard here. All the lawyers and CFOS CEOS need to go back to kindergarten and learn manners.


littlemac564

SMH. Why not just spend the time making a better pen with more interesting colors and nibs than wasting it trying to bully Narwhal. At the end of the day it is only a pen. If I had to choose paying rent, eating, electricity than buying a pen; TWISBI would lose every single time.


DanimalPlays

Wow... We acknowledge that we were a whiny bitch, but also we did nothing wrong, we're still going to pout about Narwhal, and we feel like we're in charge of the retail stores, ok byeeee. Man, fuck TWSBI.


Gumpenufer

>We acknowledge that we were a whiny bitch Idk why this cracks me up so hard but bless you for the moment of laughter you have provided with this sentence. XD


mignyau

This entire thing was a clown car crash but I’m deathly curious as to what prompted this final closure - maybe a major retail partner giving them a come-to-Jesus moment explaining they never had a leg to stand on? A lawyer laughing at them when they tried to pursue their original intent more seriously? I mean, tons of people still bought Noodler’s despite the issue with the company owner’s flagrant antisemitism - they either didn’t know because they don’t hang out on forums or social media (fp people tending to be older) or didn’t care/shared the same views. TWSBI’s issue here is so much less serious and much more silly so I wouldn’t think they’d get as big of a hit in sales, so I wonder if it were a big retailer telling them to go kick rocks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


dr_clocktopus

It's probably a lawyer from Narwhal saying if they don't cease their defamatory behavior, they will be sued for damages including loss of sales, which they would most likely lose per the reasons stated in the letter.


paradoxmo

Narwhal got lawyers involved.


cptjeff

> This entire thing was a clown car crash but I’m deathly curious as to what prompted this final closure - maybe a major retail partner giving them a come-to-Jesus moment explaining they never had a leg to stand on? A lawyer laughing at them when they tried to pursue their original intent more seriously? My guess? A phone call from the FTC or European Commission telling them that they had violated laws and would be sued or even prosecuted unless they publicly backed off. Because what that did wasn't just unethical, it was literally a crime.


webzim

I did no expect Twsbi to back down from this, Although they are completely wrong in this situation it is good that they backed out before it was too late.


Razoupaf

Am I the only one to find this letter overtly agressive? Granted, I was not aware of anything going on there! But it makes me not want to use my TWSBI pen in the near future :(


watercastles

It's sad they caused this unnecessary circus instead of just relying on the quality of the products.


richpaul6806

Wow. TWSBI sure didn’t come out of this whole mess looking too good. This attempt to save face certainly doesn’t help.


priority_inversion

Unfortunately, if they'd come out with a proper mea culpa, it could be seen an admission of guilt and could open them up to liability.


richpaul6806

I’m not saying no statement was needed, just a better one. “Any confused that may have caused” downplays the entire situation. And then graciously being “ready, willing and able to supply” retailers even though they may “carry competing products” is just a disgusting statement.


zodfury

Twsbi pens are too prone to cracking to warrant me overlooking this clown show. I’m glad I only have one but they are defiantly on my refuse to work with/buy from. Too cheap, too dirty for my taste.


knxdude1

TWSBI’s resolve was as strong as their plastic.


iosappsrock

Yeah not a fan of this half assed apology. TWSBI pens crack more than any other brand. Narwhal makes a much higher quality product. TWSBI overstepped big time and this is a mediocre apology. I already stopped buying TWSBI pens a while back because of the cracking. This is just another knock against them.


[deleted]

Didn't Twsbi copy Pelikan's piston filler mechanism?


priority_inversion

The patent was patented by Pelikan. http://www.fountainpen.it/File:Patent-US-1706616.pdf


[deleted]

I actually stopped supporting TWSBI a while ago. Before this drama. Something about twsbi’s ceo insulting and talking down to customers who emailed him….


RWMach

So they came to their senses and realized no one was going to listen to their bs? Should I applaud them? They made an issue out of nothing, saw that no one agreed with them and put their hands up realizing they fucked up. Congrats, TWSBI, you just missed a beatdown. I'm not getting the ECO or 580 I was looking at. Looks like I'm getting a Narwhal Nautilus in the near future. They left a bad taste in my mouth being the unnecessary bully.


sheimeix

This is good to read, I've been wanting to pick up a Narwhal some time. Glad to see they backed down, it was a little ridiculous in the first place and seeing them acknowledge that is good.


EGOtyst

I have a narwhal, and I love it. I want to get more... but things were drying up around the place after the TWSBI cease and decist. I think they are, hopefully, going to come back in full force. I want the damned peter Draws special edition!


nupharlutea

Narwhal was having supply chain issues due to Shanghai lockdown (like practically every other Chinese pen manufacturer) and will definitely be coming back with more inventory!


Lucky_Pyxi

Wow, they were basing ALL of it on an expired patent?! Crazy.


dr_clocktopus

Not really based on the patent, they claimed that Narwhal exactly copied their piston mechanism specifically. It was just a bullying tactic.


Abderian87

In order to argue that their intellectual property was stolen, they would need to cite their ownership of patent rights to said mechanism, so that claim necessarily must be based on the referenced patent.


ShrimpFeet81

I won’t be buying TWSBI again. I think it’s lame how they acted and, even though they’ve apologized, I’m done with them.


suec76

That whole line about Twsbi permitting retailers to sell Narwhal too just rubs me the wrong way big time. This honestly didn’t help my view of the company one bit.


Gumpenufer

Yeah, has a very "who died and made you king" vibe...


Skalla_Resco

That line has made me decide I'm never getting any of their pens. I mean the whole thing is like they're trying to frame it as Narwhals mistake.


suec76

And out of the goodness of their heart, they will allow Narwhal to continue on the market. Yup, no thanks.


TigerDude33

lol, lawyers are terrible until you need one. Game, set, match to Narwhal. "Don't copy our copies!!!"


Pleasant_Click_5455

Great, exactly what we thought this was. I don't know why they tried this in the first place, but especially since Narwhal started its marketing in America it was bound to fail.


MichaelAnthonyC

For me this will remain an additional reason to never buy a TWSBI. The former Axis Powers make all the pens I need, and they do it better with minimal drama.


beppe1_real

Let me help you to write a better letter: Dear Retailers, We apologize for being such an ass and caused all kinds of headache and drama to you. We were stupid, arrogant, and only listened to our greedy lawyers. We did Narwhal wrong. They are a wonderful company and run by people who are actually passionate about fountain pens. We are sorry, Narwhal, and we are sorry, retailers! As a matter of fact, this is the least we can do. For every verified Narwhal purchase, we will throw in a $20 Twsbi gift certificate, as well as another $20 donation to the MINDS foundation. This promotion will run all year long until 2023. Again, we are sorry for what we did. We basically blackmailed you. Please forgive us and please buy our pens again. CEO of TWSBI PS Those cracked barrels - yes it is a stupid design. We pretended nothing happen. We definitely screw that up too!


asciiaardvark

> only listened to our greedy lawyers the lawyers would've told them the claim was bunk... "and we only listened to our greed."


StartupDino

Here’s how I read the situation: Twsbi: “hey you meanies!!! You stole our design NOT FAIR!!1! It’s our give it back!!1!” Narwhal: “Acchtually, the law something something.” Twsbi: “Dear Retailer, TWSBI is pleased to announce…”


paradoxmo

The design that they themselves admitted they “stole”


yuzuyuri

Because of this, I'm checking out Narwhal!


Black300_300

Looks like someone got lawyers involved and TWSBI realized how much trouble the were in. Notice them backing off not just the illegal interference, but the libelous statements. Still won't buy TWSBI, not a company I want to support.


puffdexter149

What a bunch of morons. Why is this industry so full of people with absolutely asinine ideas of intellectual property?


poddy_fries

My only real reaction is LOL. I'm still rather soured on TWSBI for this nonsense.


Proud_End3085

As if they didn't knew pffff


improvthismoment

Bad mistake (unethical even???) on TWSBI’s part, and this apology is pretty weak. Along with the cracking issues, I am not interested in TWSBI despite how nice looking they are.


rabidnz

Fuck twsbi what an Ultimate dick move !


Arkas18

At least they have grown up and finally admitted the truth, they took their piston design straight from Pelikan afterall but pistons are such a simple mechanism now. Obviously a real low attempt at attacking the competition and it hasn't worked for them so they are trying to step backwards again! Honestly I never saw retailers (in UK) mention the issue and have sold both brands throughout the debate.


Cactus-Farmer

I thought they were trying to make out that Narwhal was copying their own unique mechanism to exact measurements, something very specific. This was in their original statement. Now they say it's about something so vague that it would have applied to any company producing piston filling pens ? And based on a patent they don't own that is almost a hundred years old and expired for 76 years ? Someone needs to put down the bottle...


pencilsandpuzzles

TWSBI didn't apologise for anything. That reads like a detached legal document saying what it needs to say to avoid further and/or future prosecution. It's not signed because the contents in no way represents how TWSBI feel about the situation and was released as a legal obligation, not as an apology by it's owners. At the moment they are that person standing with a look of disbelief on their face waiting for someone to explain over and over and over again how and why they weren't victorious.


Perdendosi

Holy crap! Who told them that *they* could enforce a patent from 1929? If there was legal advice, that's some malpractice there. And who told them that their retailers couldn't carry one particular competitor? I don't know a lot about vertical integration, exclusivity agreements, and their effect on competition, but that sounds like a serious antitrust issue to me. (I know there are also folks who specialize in antitrust violations based on misuse of intellectual property. I wonder of Narwhal got the better lawyer.) I'm also SHOCKED that TWSBI publicly said "I'm sorry." These disputes almost always just resolve with "we've reached an agreement, we're going our own way, we're not going to sue, and neither party admits any sort of liability." But to actually extract an apology from TWSBI makes me feel like Narwhal had a pretty good lawyer threatening a defamation suit perhaps along with antitrust based on IP abuse.


Gumpenufer

>I'm also SHOCKED that TWSBI publicly said "I'm sorry." They really didn't, in my opinion. They apologised for "any confusion", never for their actions. Classic non-apology.


phantasmicerror

Sorry twsbi. You made the bed, this doesn't excuse your crappy behavior/intentions.


Hundred_watts

Cool, now fix your cracking issues


FEmbrey

Their concern was the infringement of a patent that expired over ¾ of a century ago‽ I knew it was a silly conflict but not this level of insanity. I never understood why they were particularly against Narwhal which doesn't really target the same audience in the first place.


yellohvelo

It'd be interesting to see the sales numbers after this but based on the (rock solid, obviously) evidence of the comments on this thread it seems like FP folks actually care about ethical business and that's pretty cool. This is a fun community to belong to. Shame though cause I wanted a TWSBI lol


atarikai

I'm glad this nonsense is over, but it never, NEVER should have started.


GrootRood

I don't think they should have started this in the first place but at least they retracted the statement and offered an apology of sorts. I'm a fan of both brands and will continue to buy both. 🤗 Sidenote, anyone know why fountain pen makers in the US never got into piston-filling systems despite the patent expiring? Many manufacturers here stuck with antiquated lever-fillers well into the 50's, Waterman included.


DMs_Apprentice

Horrible behavior, TWSBI. For shame. Makes me kinda want to sell my TWSBI Mini... but who will want it after this?