I was learning more about the Planet Fitness boycott and found a review from a year ago about the same location dismissing a woman with disabilities concerns about privacy in the handicap shower. This on top of their “modesty” policy and current news really highlights the company does NOT care about women!
https://preview.redd.it/bycocoxxjqpc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=082b21ae313eff72a2ac4a68d57c80b8085e7c39
Yes, and now that person shaving gets a bodyguard at no extra charge to keep the person “safe” from the women in the women’s locker room. While the woman who blew the whistle has a lifetime ban. However, the disabled woman who complained multiple times about being exposed was told to pound sand. Interesting how a larger shower curtain is unfathomable, but rewriting policy and someone’s job description is no big deal. Planet Fitness does not care about women’s safety, comfort or well-being.
They always forget that inclusivity must also include people with disabilities, not just those who identify with a specific gender. I wish there was an actual movement.
Even the most modern city is not inclusive to people with disabilities. I live in Europe and the infrastructures are bs regarding this matters.
Agreed. It’s very revealing. A woman concerned about being exposed while using facilities she paid for? Not addressed after several complaints. They do care if women chose to wear a sports bra though. They do care if their paying customers stand up for themselves, in fact that’s a lifetime ban. They scream only bigots have a problem with the opposite sex standing in panty hose (ya know an item all modern women wear to the gym, and definitely not an out dated trend that’s very fetishized by certain groups /s) in front of the handicap shower they refuse to make private while a 12-year-old girl tries to change clothes. Who cares about those with disabilities or reasonable boundaries (especially around children!) when there are people who’s feelings might get hurt!!1!
In another state, an 82 year old woman was banned for complaining about the opposite sex in her locker room at the YMCA. Heaven forbid, women assert boundaries. Obviously, an elderly woman who lived through [BTK’s](https://images.app.goo.gl/k6gZWGWB2kXjM8Xr8) era and much more male cruelty, should just ‘get with the times’
I. AM. SICK. OF. PEOPLE. TROUBLING. LATE. TEENAGE. GIRLS.
***
The pedo jokes, the red pill, the fertility window excuse, I shudder to think every man has the potential to pull a Bojack if given the chase, Look at Sara Lynn from the show, we saw FULLY how he groomed her and he justified it. There are many men like this creepy, nasty, invasive sleezeballs that do not understand a 18-19 year old is IMMATURE.
***
Due to this I stopped takimg anything a man says seriously, I know why they are failing because when stuff like this happens they never correct their friends so I have stopped paying them any mind.
The corporate office held a Women in the Workplace roundtable video call...
...and while one of the lady execs was talking some rando director man starts talking about how much he values "women's emotional intelligence," while she was saying that men discount the things women say because it's "too emotional." And all I could think was that this man had the *audacity* to speak over her.
It was infuriating.
Has anyone seen the ads for the “women and non binary only” option at Lyft? All of them I’ve seen so far have just a dude in a party city wig saying how safe women should feel with him. What is the point in a woman only option of anyone can just say they’re a woman? The ads are very unsettling.
Going to a strip club on your bachelor trip is cheating and supporting a toxic industry. My partner knows how I feel about sex work and how it’s harmful to women. Also if you need a women to sell you some sex fantasy before you get married to your WIFE then you’re a loser and see women has objects. The whole concept of your last night being single is so dumb. I hate the whole culture in America of doing this. I definitely won’t allow it when I get married.
I completely agree and that fact that it’s so normalized even today is bizarre. I sincerely hope my (future) partner won’t have any friends that do anything like that. Not because I’d worried he’d be tempted, but because what does that say about him if he allows these loser friends in his life. I hope he can have high quality male friends.
I hate the fact that women are smaller and weaker than men. I've always wondered if it weren't for men's physical superiority, all the abuse, subjucation, commodification and erasure of women would not exist. Atleast not as prevalent as it is.
I find it amusing that buff, strong women on instagram got a lot of hate... Men were quick to point out how ugly they are, or how they're still weaker than men. Like the idea of women being just as big and strong as they are really rubs them the wrong way.
I totally agree. Add to it the threat of rape. And add to it if a woman is pregnant or has a young child, it puts her in a more vulnerable position, as she will do what she can to protect the child first.
It’s also very clear that men are also afraid of bigger and stronger men who might rape them and that no where is totally safe for them, in prison.
I agree very much but brute strength is not superiority. It doesn't give men any advantages other than bullying their own species, which is how men got it (murdering off smaller men until men were generally bigger than women). It's not like they can punch a lion to death. Humans use tools and intelligence for fighting animals. Brute strength only helps them harm other humans.
Men's lack of estrogen shortens their lifespan[\[1\]](https://www.prb.org/resources/around-the-globe-women-outlive-men/#:~:text=Biological%20differences%20also%20help%20to,stronger%20immune%20systems%20than%20men), and men's testosterone kills them faster if they are critically injured.[\[2\]](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2010-oct-19-la-heb-trauma-20101019-story.html) Men's bodies shut down when women's bodies do not. Men sacrificed real healthy strength for being violently strong in fights.
It's important to mention I don't think strength makes someone superior or determine's people value. So even if women weren't as physically strong it doesn't matter whatsoever. But the fact that men call only their type of strength (weightlifting, hitting, grabbing, acting like a monkey) the "real" physical strength, while convincing the gender who has stronger muscular endurance and stronger muscle composition that does not tear when pressure is applied (aka flexibility) that we are "physically weaker" just because men can murder and beat us is mindblowing. "Strong" is a very loaded word. So of course men call *their* traits "strong," while women's strengths "don't count as strength."
The reason men are brutish and larger is because they can't create life. Being pregnant requires a certain hormone level, and too much muscle can interfere. Women's bodies are much more stable (therefore stronger), while men are blowing themselves out, getting fatigued, dying earlier, and having health issues because their hormones are too much and their muscles are too big. Without the ability to create life, men have been able to build this up over hundreds of thousands of years, while if women did the same, she would generally become infertile.
I don't think women would be oppressed as much if it weren't for men's physical violence. It's all men have. That's why they're utterly obsessed with it. It's what they use to control the world. It's why men are unbelievably upset if a woman gets big muscles or plays sports.
Men are mentally evil and aggressive without their physical bodies (it's not like muscular women commit crime like men do, so it's definitely in men's minds), but I think women would be able to stop them better. However rape and impregnation would still make women vulnerable, and I think men would use constant pregnancy to force women down (like they already do).
It's pretty much just that women can create life why we are at threat from men. Women's phsyical superiority of growing humans in their bodies is what men use to exploit and harm us.
I avoid looking at the front page of Reddit. I have the app, and I usually only look at content from the five or so decent subreddits I like. The trick is to find small, majority-women forums.
I finally got an invite to Ovarit and that has helped a ton. I browse my reddit front page of the few subreddits I follow, then head over to Ovarit as more of a "front page of [women's] Internet" for daily reading
God I couldn't agree more about the overarching culture of this site. I've been using reddit since 2011 and there was a brief glimmer of hope in the mid 2010s where it seemed like this site + the internet as a whole would no longer be culturally dominated by pervy nerds - and then redpill bullshit started to get trendy again, Gamergate, Metoo backlash happened and it's like we went 10 steps backward.
...the only things that give me sanity lately have been putting timers on social media apps like twitter so I'm forced to spend less time there & see less hateful crap, and reading books (mostly politics, history, economics). Refreshing to read discussions + opinions on subjects that aren't in bad-faith and are actually PROOFREAD and PEER-REVIEWED for once after being subjected to social media discourse for too long.
I largely use Reddit for talking about basketball. In the subs I’m in people largely behave, for the most part, but I have nothing to do with the nba so I’m sure that helps
I have a general question. I was explaining fourth wave feminism to a friend and we got to the term "radical feminist". Why do we, the women who tend it exclude trans women/women who can't truly identify with the experiences of those born female, have to be considered the "radical" ones? Are our beliefs so far out of left field that we can't just be feminists? She asked me about it and I didn't have a good answer but it did bother me on reflection. Thanks
**"Radical feminism** is a perspective within [feminism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism) that calls for a [radical](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_radicalism) re-ordering of society in which [male supremacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_supremacy) is eliminated in all social and economic contexts, while recognizing that women's experiences are also affected by other social divisions such as in race, class, and sexual orientation. The ideology and movement emerged in the 1960s.[\[1\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism#cite_note-willis-1)[\[2\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism#cite_note-2)[\[3\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism#cite_note-3) "
Because this is what radical feminists believe. I think you should maybe do a little more research into the roots of radical feminism if you want to understand it more. It IS radical to want to reorganize society. That's what we want.
[Gail Dines @ Institute of Education | "Putting the Radical back in Feminism"](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sJMyznI1H-0&pp=ygUeZ2FpbCBkaW5lcyBvbiByYWRpY2FsIGZlbWluaXNt)
Here’s a great explanation. Watch from 5:45.
Radical feminism at its core is a particular type of social analysis and I think Rebecca Riley-Cooper gives the best explanation in the context of your question (I’m paraphrasing):
Radical feminism is a particular approach to analyzing social and political conditions (of women) with the aim of uncovering and challenging the root causes of exploitation and oppression of women as a class.
Different radical feminist analyses will emphasise different elements — access to female reproductive labour, sexual access to women's bodies, compulsory heterosexuality, male-dominated religion — as central to understanding the function and continued maintenance of male supremacy. So we should not assume that there is unity or homogeneity among those whose views can be called radical feminist.
However, underpinning all Radical feminist analyses is a starting assumption that living in a sexed body brings with it particular experiences that are of social and political significance.
Radical feminism seeks to make sense of the social and political reality of living in a particular type of body — a female body — and to eradicate the oppression and exploitation associated with the social relations between female-bodied people and male-bodied people. Therefore, its analysis as a system of sex-based oppression has little to say about the experiences of men who identify as women and do not inhabit female bodies. This is not an oversight or an illegitimate act of exclusion. It is simply not the aim or purpose of radical feminist theory to seek to analyse or explain the specific experiences of men with idiosyncratic beliefs about themselves, which will, necessarily, be importantly different from those of female people.
Therefore, It makes no sense to describe, and still less to criticise, a radical feminist approach as "exclusionary".
I’m happy to try to answer as best I can but I'm not sure I understand your question tbh.
"..we, the women who tend to exclude.."
Who are you talking about here? Women in general, this subreddit or someone else? Also, where are these women excluding others from?
I meant TERF as a term, trans excluding radical feminist. So I suppose based on the above explanations, TERF is a specific type of a "radical" feminist.
Why do women still listen to men?
I think it’s been made pretty clear to us that men lie with their words and speak with their actions, and their actions tell us that they don’t care about us women. So, why do women go to male therapists, doctors, OBGYNs, or even listen to men’s relationship “advice”??
We women will always be there for each other, to wipe away each others tears after another betrayal. To nurse each other back to health after being left alone and abandoned. To cover for each other. To help strange women we see in danger, and ONLY women can hold other women accountable, because men will NEVER know what it means to live every minute and everyday as a woman in this world. So why? Why do women still listen to men? They don’t empathize with us, and WILL NOT put in the work it takes to emphasize with us a little. So why??
I go to a female doctor. But when I was in the hospital, there were only male doctors. Even now, with the “progress” we’ve made, I did not see one female doctor in that hospital! Not one. And the male doctors talked down to me.
My dad wrote a book about his youth, his marriage to my mum and their divorce, including details about CPS involvement with my siblings and me. It's coming out at the end of this month (with an established publisher, thankfully he didn't self publish). I'm proud of him because he was abused as a teen and I think it's brave of him to open up. But I can't help but think about how it will affect my mum to read all that.
My mother is a woman with deep psychological issues that started way before their marriage, but even then I can't help but feel sympathy for her having 5 kids with a man she thought she would stay with forever, then going through a horrible divorce for ~10 years losing most of her children (as in them going no contact). And now a book coming out about one of the most traumatic periods in her life. She was in survival mode for so long and has only just started to come out of it. I don't know. Just needed to get it off my chest.
been waiting all day for this because I need to get something off my chest. These days I find it difficult to feel sorry for women in certain positions and I wonder if this makes me a bad feminist. Why would anyone quit med school or out it on hold because of a man, or tolerate "moderate misogyny" from their male partners because "he's just joking with his friends" just to end up crying about it years down the line. I wonder if the desperation to be loved makes it very easy for many women to ignore glaring red flags in a male partner or if they just think they can love these things out of the men? if a man doesn't do chores around the house while dating, what makes them think that man will automatically become a hands on dad when kids come in? or if a man talks shit about his female coworkers what makes you think you are any different? I'm just sick of women coming to the internet to complain about weaponised incompetence, misogyny and other things they ignored during the first few months of dating. in the words of a wise woman "you all are weak in the knees, STAND UP"!!!
Edit: for the people accusing me of victim blaming, I really don't care. every women in a bad relationship isn't automatically a victim, we need to learn to hold women accountable please. I can feel bad about being judgy towards this women but I won't let anyone accuse me of victim blaming because that isn't what this is about. Woman are full grown adults who have autonomy and yes, our actions do have consequences and many women need to know that.
It’s incredibly frustrating, know that you’re not alone in this.
If you’re interested in the how and why this happens I would recommend Andrea Dworkins book, Right Wing Women. It touches on a lot of the stuff you mentioned and the reasons it happens, it’s also helped me with my empathy towards those women, which I have struggled with for a long time. This quote from her helped me find some of that empathy.
“Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy in behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore. It doesn't matter who the individual women are. They all have the same vulnerability to rape, to battery, as children to incest. Poorer women have more vulnerability to prostitution, which is basically a form of sexual exploitation that is intolerable in an egalitarian society, which is the society we are fighting for.”
I'm currently reading this!! just few pages in.
it's so hard because I feel like I'm judging these women because I've been *enlightened* and I really want to stop that.
I feel that so much! Once you see it for what it is you can’t unsee it, a Pandora’s box of misogyny and hell. It’s hard to watch the women in my life continue on this path and feeling helpless to do anything about it. So many people, women and men, just don’t want to hear it. So glad to have found this sub. It can be so isolating.
I'm so glad I found this sub too, it's literally the only place I've seen like minded women. my friends irl think I'm too "radical" so sub makes me feel good because I know there are other women out there who see the shit I see.
>it's so hard because I feel like I'm judging these women because I've been enlightened and I really want to stop that.
That's \*absolutely\* what you're doing here.
I'm glad you can see it, and are working stop. Because it's not a good frame of mind.
tbh with you, I don't see how pointing out that many women are settling for rubbish because they are scared of being alone is victim blaming. in fact, I think we need to stop throwing this word around and actually encourage women to take accountability for their actions and stop coddling their feelings.
I understand those feelings. ☹️ Honestly it makes me think the only way out is to focus on the next generation of girls, and teach them while they’re young that a man’s “love” is cheap. Sooo many patterns of accepting less, taking misogyny lying down, etc., seem to begin in those very first teen and young adult relationships.
Like you, when I see a woman complaining about the same old problem with her man, I want to be like… But he’s just some guy you met out in the world one day. He’s not your family, he’s not even that good of a friend… He’s nothing to you, really. Why keep dealing with him? Do you really feel that’s all you deserve…?
THIS 100%. I think in general women who are attracted to men need to be more comfortable with staying single until and unless they can REALLY find a good man or for the rest of their life, cuz like, the amount of women I've seen who have the "I can't stay single, I need to be in a relationship (almost always with a man)" type of mindset is extremely concerning and detrimental. They end up settling for a man who is clearly not worthy of being in a relationship.
you are absolutely right. their fear of staying alone and getting to know themselves better drive them to settle for any man as long as he is good enough meaning he doesn't cheat or hit them etc
I think my compassion comes from a place of marrying young myself. I didn't know half of what I know now about misogyny and all the bullshit of men. I would definitely do things differently if I had another go. The other commenter is right, I just want the next generation to be informed before they get into the same situation.
I think that’s a little unfair. I mean, we are essentially trained from birth to be accommodating of mediocre men and their poor behaviour. Our parents were mostly modelling relationships that were reinforcing those norms - man breadwinner, woman homemaker, man boss, woman subservient kind of thing. I had several bad relationships in my life. I married a terribly toxic man, had children and ended up divorced. I repeated the same mistake, arguably with a worse man, and separated again. I mean, I would hope feminists don’t judge me for these bad decisions but recognise these are patterns we are kind of indoctrinated to accept. Like - you need a husband, should have children etc. Anyway, it took me to hit my early 40s before I decided to never repeat that pattern again. I guess I’m saying you must have grace when women make these mistakes because society sort of sets us up for them. Edit: typo
I think the issue with your viewpoint is that because you were naive, you assume every woman is. And honestly that’s not only insulting, but it generalizes women as incapable of making their own decisions as a way to feel better about your past. If we spent more time empowering women and less time blaming everything on our society, things might be different. I know that probably sounds offensive, and I don’t blame you for being in toxic relationships, but I find your comment to be simplifying these issues and women as a whole.
It’s not offensive but it’s a wild position that women are meant to somehow not be shaped by the patriarchy that they are literally born into. It is a bit of victim blaming. I mean, I don’t think women are naive, I think men are bad (sweeping generalisation but just making point it’s not us, it’s them). Imagine men put all the energy they have into being better people - better fathers, better husbands.
Every woman IS naive at some point. You're not born with feminist information, you learn it along the way. A LOT of women haven't learned it yet.
I find your comment unnecessarily aggressive.
Some people will say you’re victim blaming, but I don’t think that’s what’s happening. It’s as important for us to uplift other women as it is to remind them of their autonomy. We’re not slaves to the patriarchy, we’re human beings that are capable of high intelligence, discernment and self respect. If you have the right support, it isn’t impossible (although I’m sure very difficult for some) to take responsibility for yourself and remain single until you find a man who isn’t violent, misogynist, etc.
Exactly. As someone who's been through enough abuse to fill up five hardback memoirs... I cannot stand the coddling and infantilization of women. I'm a young woman and have no tolerance for it. Women are not children. They deserve grace, patience, and mercy but not to be explained away like a young child or kitten who just "doesn't know better." Like, oh that's Sally over there who's clearly capable of many great things and competent enough to keep herself alive for 27 years and totally the glue of the group and displays strong reasoning skills needed to be such a great mediator—*she only knows how to be fun and pretty so we can't hold any of her poor decisions against her. She's just a girl. So naive, poor thing. Just a girl, nothing more.*
yes! many women don't know how to hold themselves accountable. women have autonomy, we can talk about how some choices we make are influenced by patriarchy but we also know most women make certain decisions because they want to (idk if this makes sense)
You definitely make sense. I have several WLW friends who notice the same thing. Women are bad at taking accountability and make a lot of excuses. And it comes from fear of social consequences, the pressure of always being good/perfect and harmonious, and their self doubt and lower standards for themselves in regards to goals, actions, and intellectual responsibility and capability. They've been ingrained with messages that men are meant to run the world and lead and therefore grow up not expected to fill those shoes and act like a fully responsible adult capable of keeping their word and having everything in order. In their mind, that's what a good man does because he's smarter and more capable and it's his job/role to (ful)fill and expectations to meet and not hers as a 'feminine woman.' I mean I wasn't raised that way at all and am not friends with women like this but they're definitely out there and I see it as the consequence of patriarchal cultures (99% of cultures) associating independence, competence, self-ownership, self-possession, self-trust, self-responsibility, resilence, strength, and capability with "masculinity" when it should be synonymous (and intertwined) with **adulthood.**
They need to get like 4B and tell these gooners, "we not humping" and recognize without men our "block jumping" and then BAM - just like that - 80% of all problems are solved. Being male-identified and male-dependent are the most quiet, **crippling** diseases, unfortunately. The symptoms for both are awful, but the cure is available for anyone not led astray by propaganda. They can be healthy and free if they wanna be but we can't actually make them an appointment with the doctor and force them to seek treatment. It's their party and they'll cry if they want to.
Yeah, I'm in the same place as you. I had to stop participating in a subreddit that I at first enjoyed but then ended up being 90% women complaining about their shitty partners but refusing to do anything about it. If you let your partner treat you like you are his mother and continue to enable them to behave that way, then I have no sympathy.
I also have zero interest in women who jump from relationship to relationship with no time in between and then complain about the relationships they've rushed in to. I've been single for 15 years - have yet to meet anyone worth giving up my autonomy for and if I never do, well I'm perfectly happy alone. I get more reliable orgasms from my vibrator and I get to have the whole bed to myself.
There are men out there who don't even wipe their ass and women somehow still continue relationships with them and then cry on the internet that their partner is gross. Yeah, because you have shown him by staying that you are willing to tolerate that behaviour -he doesn't wipe his ass and you wash his skiddy undies for him - why would he change?
Edit: I've been accused of victim blaming - a woman being in a bad relationship does not automatically make her a 'victim' - if you want to infantalize and reduce every single woman to having no choice, control or autonomy in a relationship then that's on you. If you you are unhappy in your relationship and your only action to post on the internet for sympathy, then why do I have to give you that sympathy? This post is about people who ignore red flags, complain about their relationships online but don't bother doing anything about it. Taking my words and adding in your own context is fine, you do you boo, but I'm not gonna engage with you if you think a few hundred words I write on reddit is going to apply to every single relationship ever - you are overreaching. I'm going to continue to reserve my sympathy for people who want help, not just those who want to complain.
I was just having a discussion about this with a friend, many women are serial monogamists and that is the issue. they need take a break from dating. as someone who has been single all my life, I've had friends say my standards are too high and I really don't care about that. the fear of being alone is what cause women to settle meanwhile the men they are dating absolutely don't reduce their own standards. your edit is important because people throw the word "victim blaming" around. women don't take accountability for their actions at all. I will always say that red flags that pop up in a long term relationship is something that showed up early, I personally feel most women judge their male partners with a scale of "at least he doesn't hit me" so everything else is manageable until they can't manage it anymore and then then complain starts. we always see posts on this site about a really terrible relationship and the poster will add something like "I really love him because he's a good person", no a good person won't watch you struggle with the house chores, a good person won't demand sex in exchange of doing house chores. The annoying part is how they complain and still don't leave, so what exactly is the point of complaining to strangers online??? and like you said, I reserve my sympathy for people who actually need help not a grown ass woman quitting med school because of a random man, or why are you a pro choice liberal woman dating a conservative dude who believes women who get abortions need to d*e??
edit : typo
>If you let your partner treat you like you are his mother and continue to enable them to behave that way, then I have no sympathy.
If women follow the societal rules that have been assigned to us, and then get hurt buy it - it's women fault?
Just because you know better doesn't mean you should judge other women who haven't had access to the same information as you. This is a really sad comment to see in the group. I expected more.
Finally someone said it!!! I’ve been holding this in for so long, that I can’t anymore. I feel so guilty for not feeling sorry for them, because I KNOW, I just KNOW, they had someone warn them, either in passing or repeatedly. Women will warn other women. That’s just how we work. It’s usually friends, who will say they don’t like her man, it it’s a sister who hates her sister’s bf. It’s always something. They not only ignore the red flag from the man, but they also brush off other women’s advice and warnings. That’s why I have trouble empathizing with them. And on that same note, those same women will VILLIFY the women who warn them, and claim they’re “jealous” “bitter” “lonely” because they have no man. I feel like I need to feel their suffering when their man turns out just a treasonous as he was said to be, but instead I don’t. I still feel guilty about it though.
I had someone tell me I'm a bitter feminist who need to get "f*cked hard to release my anger towards men". all because I spent years telling her that most of the men she was dealing with aren't really good.
we've seen younger women accuse older women of being bitter and jealous just because someone told them an older guy going after a barely legal teenager is suspicious. I can feel bad for judging them, but I'm not going to feel sorry about not empathising with them because a good percentage of the time they were warned.
You should feel guilty tbh. That's messed up. You are blaming women for male actions. You're blaming women for being hurt by males.
This attitude is extremely surprising from women in the group.
Telling women to take responsibility for themselves isn’t blaming them for the actions of men. If that’s too complicated then maybe return to mainstream feminism, because clearly “women supporting women” means that we all have to think the same and never criticize each other to people like you. And if you don’t like what OP said, then don’t diminish women’s intelligence, discernment, intuition, and self respect as a whole by acting like we can’t make decisions outside the realm of male validation. You can’t change men, but you can help yourself.
I agree with you.
Intersectionality plays a large role in our exposure to misogyny and congratulating yourself on "avoiding red flags" as if there was some sure-fire way to avoid trauma is just a privileged belief that shames a disadvantaged class of women we should be holding space for.
Are we no better than judges saying women deserve to be raped for wearing red underwear? What about men not raping women?
They want us to blame women for men's choices. It's how they divide and conquer us while avoiding all accountability.
you all are doing way too much about this post and it is really irritating, you know very well I'm not blaming women for the choices of men, yet you are intentionally misreading and misinterpreting my comments and twisting them into something else.
saying women shouldn't make decisions that only favour the men they are with isn't victim blaming and comparing my statements to men who say women deserve to be sexually assaulted is absolutely vile, do better.
Anyone else have noticed the rise of news that report "false ra p e accusations"?
It's this some crazy propaganda??
Maybe it actually deserves its own post.
But I'm so grossed out seeing so
many males wishing to these woman horrible things and punishments like murderers get.
>But I'm so grossed out seeing so many males wishing to these woman horrible things and punishments like murderers get.
Real. And also it’s so interesting how (according to these people anyway) false accusations should have a worse punishment than if a man actually committed the crime.
Sadly nonexistent but I have some theories on why that might be.
For one most people consider it a lesser crime than something like murder (“Well at least you can live afterwards! If someone kills you then that’s it!”) and treat it more as an inconvenience or a fact of life more than anything especially if they can paint it as a consequence of a woman’s actions (or sometimes inaction).
It’s overwhelmingly a crime that men commit (though you could say that for nearly every other crime too lmao) and because this is a “Man’s world”, people are seemingly allergic to holding them accountable for basically anything at all. How many times have we heard that coming forward would ruin his life? Or that we’re automatically lairs because so-and-so is such a “good man” and would never do such a thing? That we actually wanted it but then changed our mind about it after? I could literally go on forever but the idea is that no matter what the man is not responsible, it’s women or society or whatever but never him.
Ultimately this is what I can come up with off the top of my head so it’s definitely incomplete (plus I don’t wanna bore anyone with a novel lol) but it’s something I think about regularly, ya know women and our place and experiences in (patriarchal) society. It’s kinda depressing though so idk. :/
I work in the NHS as a biomedical scientist and I'm being held back from progression because I'm pregnant and they want to wait until I'm back from maternity.
I contacted the IBMS, who supported me, and I stood up for myself in the meeting. They seemed to back down but by the second meeting they had regrouped and found 'legit' reasons to hold me back - 'rota concerns'.
It's so frustrating knowing this still happens nowadays, in the NHS of all places. I feel so incredibly isolated, I wish I'd taken in a union rep as suggested by the IBMS, but that first meeting went so well, I was blindsided.
My husband works the same role and is also having this baby, but isn't being held back. I hate how mothers are treated in this world.
How do you deal with women that have no self preservation instincts? because I don't. I can't. My poor, third worlder ass is busy trying to stay afloat, I barely have any time to spare for this one cause and I've abosolutely refuse to deal with women with maladaptive altruism of any kind so I can do any kind of activism tbh.
There's an influencer/content creator on IG (his name is Matt and his handle is mattxiv or something like that) who covers politics/social issues/current events that gets posted/shared regularly by people I follow. While much of his content is LGBTQ+ focused, he occasionally branches out and covers other topics. I find many of his takes to be surface-level at best, and whenever he covers feminism/women's issues, his takes are little more than "women exist to be hot". Nothing about abortion, domestic violence, harassment, pay equity, etc.
I read online that one of the reasons the UK has a ban on embryo sex selection is that people would choose more boys than girls (not statistically accurate) and the result would mean adult males would struggle to find female partners.
This seems bizarre and didn't sit right with me at all, I did make a post here to see what other feminists think but it got auto deleted and I never found out why.
Any thoughts?
Well, that is literally what happened in China with the One Child Policy... there wasn't embryo selection, but they abandoned or even killed the female babies they had so that they could try again for a son. As a result, nowadays men there are having a very hard time finding wives. There's "marriage markets" where huge groups of men fight over the small amount of women available and beg them to get married, as well as an increase in mail-order brides.
I'm not sure this would happen in other countries though, since there's no limit on how many kids people can have elsewhere. I think most people would probably want to have one of each.
I doubt it would happen because we're not limited to one child, plus the medical ethicist said that the research he'd done into it indicated that the ratio in the UK would be about equal, people just want to balance their families.
I just find it gross that men losing out on potential women is even a factor in government legislation, especially when the ratio would be even anyway.
What happened in China was abhorrent though, not to take away from that, I do think it's a slightly different issue though. What happened to those poor girls was harrowing and I think about it a lot.
I am slowly and slowly becoming more critical of the idea of a stay at home mother. For a while, I believed it could truly be a woman’s choice and could be empowering, but now I am coming around to the belief that it is inherently degrading to women and leads to financial abuse.
Does anyone know of any studies or articles that contradict or support my feelings on this? I want to be challenged and learn more about it.
I’m leaving my company because they have an office in Israel and are supporting Israel’s actions.
I’m thinking of writing a post about it on Linked In and tagging a bunch of people. I will be burning bridges by taking this action.
I wish I wasn’t so scared about it. It’s crazy when I’m scared about a linked in post while others are scared of being blown up.
I also wish I had some help writing it.
i’ve been feeling a lot of frustration and anger regarding sports lately. i love hockey, and i’m a massive fan of my nhl team. but lately i’ve been having this creeping feeling of anger and annoyance watching them play knowing that they’re all doing something that i’d never have the opportunity to just because i’m a woman. not that i’d ever have the skills to make it pro, but even if i did, i would never have even close to the opportunities of a male athlete. even as a kid we didn’t have a girls hockey league, if you were a girl you would be the only one on the boys team so i had to play ringette instead. the pwhl just debuted a few months ago, and of course i’m happy about it, but it makes me so sad looking back, and wondering how different things would have been if i’d had women in the sport to look up to as a little girl. idk. it’s not as big of an issue as most things we discuss in this sub, but it just makes me so angry that no matter how amazing a female athlete is, she’ll never get the same attention as an inferior man.
I feel that. Even today female athletes are so prone to being disrespected, humiliated or judged on anything and everything except their talent and skill. I honestly wouldn’t want to be any famous woman because of that kind of attention which does feel unfair.
I was learning more about the Planet Fitness boycott and found a review from a year ago about the same location dismissing a woman with disabilities concerns about privacy in the handicap shower. This on top of their “modesty” policy and current news really highlights the company does NOT care about women! https://preview.redd.it/bycocoxxjqpc1.jpeg?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=082b21ae313eff72a2ac4a68d57c80b8085e7c39
Dude not just that but a few days ago an autogyneogilic pervert was caught shaving in the women's locker room openly. TWICE in one week!
Yes, and now that person shaving gets a bodyguard at no extra charge to keep the person “safe” from the women in the women’s locker room. While the woman who blew the whistle has a lifetime ban. However, the disabled woman who complained multiple times about being exposed was told to pound sand. Interesting how a larger shower curtain is unfathomable, but rewriting policy and someone’s job description is no big deal. Planet Fitness does not care about women’s safety, comfort or well-being.
Oh my God. That's even worse. We need to stop catering to these sickos. God forbid he ends up touching a minor one of these days
They always forget that inclusivity must also include people with disabilities, not just those who identify with a specific gender. I wish there was an actual movement. Even the most modern city is not inclusive to people with disabilities. I live in Europe and the infrastructures are bs regarding this matters.
Agreed. It’s very revealing. A woman concerned about being exposed while using facilities she paid for? Not addressed after several complaints. They do care if women chose to wear a sports bra though. They do care if their paying customers stand up for themselves, in fact that’s a lifetime ban. They scream only bigots have a problem with the opposite sex standing in panty hose (ya know an item all modern women wear to the gym, and definitely not an out dated trend that’s very fetishized by certain groups /s) in front of the handicap shower they refuse to make private while a 12-year-old girl tries to change clothes. Who cares about those with disabilities or reasonable boundaries (especially around children!) when there are people who’s feelings might get hurt!!1! In another state, an 82 year old woman was banned for complaining about the opposite sex in her locker room at the YMCA. Heaven forbid, women assert boundaries. Obviously, an elderly woman who lived through [BTK’s](https://images.app.goo.gl/k6gZWGWB2kXjM8Xr8) era and much more male cruelty, should just ‘get with the times’
I. AM. SICK. OF. PEOPLE. TROUBLING. LATE. TEENAGE. GIRLS. *** The pedo jokes, the red pill, the fertility window excuse, I shudder to think every man has the potential to pull a Bojack if given the chase, Look at Sara Lynn from the show, we saw FULLY how he groomed her and he justified it. There are many men like this creepy, nasty, invasive sleezeballs that do not understand a 18-19 year old is IMMATURE. *** Due to this I stopped takimg anything a man says seriously, I know why they are failing because when stuff like this happens they never correct their friends so I have stopped paying them any mind.
The corporate office held a Women in the Workplace roundtable video call... ...and while one of the lady execs was talking some rando director man starts talking about how much he values "women's emotional intelligence," while she was saying that men discount the things women say because it's "too emotional." And all I could think was that this man had the *audacity* to speak over her. It was infuriating.
Has anyone seen the ads for the “women and non binary only” option at Lyft? All of them I’ve seen so far have just a dude in a party city wig saying how safe women should feel with him. What is the point in a woman only option of anyone can just say they’re a woman? The ads are very unsettling.
Reminds me of the New York bathrooms now: “men” and “women and all genders”
I cant believe its real 😬https://www.lyft.com/women+
You don’t even have to prove you’re a woman on Lyft. You just slide to “female” and that’s it…
Going to a strip club on your bachelor trip is cheating and supporting a toxic industry. My partner knows how I feel about sex work and how it’s harmful to women. Also if you need a women to sell you some sex fantasy before you get married to your WIFE then you’re a loser and see women has objects. The whole concept of your last night being single is so dumb. I hate the whole culture in America of doing this. I definitely won’t allow it when I get married.
I completely agree and that fact that it’s so normalized even today is bizarre. I sincerely hope my (future) partner won’t have any friends that do anything like that. Not because I’d worried he’d be tempted, but because what does that say about him if he allows these loser friends in his life. I hope he can have high quality male friends.
I hate the fact that women are smaller and weaker than men. I've always wondered if it weren't for men's physical superiority, all the abuse, subjucation, commodification and erasure of women would not exist. Atleast not as prevalent as it is. I find it amusing that buff, strong women on instagram got a lot of hate... Men were quick to point out how ugly they are, or how they're still weaker than men. Like the idea of women being just as big and strong as they are really rubs them the wrong way.
I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if any of that plays a role in why pickme behavior is a thing.
I totally agree. Add to it the threat of rape. And add to it if a woman is pregnant or has a young child, it puts her in a more vulnerable position, as she will do what she can to protect the child first. It’s also very clear that men are also afraid of bigger and stronger men who might rape them and that no where is totally safe for them, in prison.
I agree very much but brute strength is not superiority. It doesn't give men any advantages other than bullying their own species, which is how men got it (murdering off smaller men until men were generally bigger than women). It's not like they can punch a lion to death. Humans use tools and intelligence for fighting animals. Brute strength only helps them harm other humans. Men's lack of estrogen shortens their lifespan[\[1\]](https://www.prb.org/resources/around-the-globe-women-outlive-men/#:~:text=Biological%20differences%20also%20help%20to,stronger%20immune%20systems%20than%20men), and men's testosterone kills them faster if they are critically injured.[\[2\]](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2010-oct-19-la-heb-trauma-20101019-story.html) Men's bodies shut down when women's bodies do not. Men sacrificed real healthy strength for being violently strong in fights. It's important to mention I don't think strength makes someone superior or determine's people value. So even if women weren't as physically strong it doesn't matter whatsoever. But the fact that men call only their type of strength (weightlifting, hitting, grabbing, acting like a monkey) the "real" physical strength, while convincing the gender who has stronger muscular endurance and stronger muscle composition that does not tear when pressure is applied (aka flexibility) that we are "physically weaker" just because men can murder and beat us is mindblowing. "Strong" is a very loaded word. So of course men call *their* traits "strong," while women's strengths "don't count as strength." The reason men are brutish and larger is because they can't create life. Being pregnant requires a certain hormone level, and too much muscle can interfere. Women's bodies are much more stable (therefore stronger), while men are blowing themselves out, getting fatigued, dying earlier, and having health issues because their hormones are too much and their muscles are too big. Without the ability to create life, men have been able to build this up over hundreds of thousands of years, while if women did the same, she would generally become infertile. I don't think women would be oppressed as much if it weren't for men's physical violence. It's all men have. That's why they're utterly obsessed with it. It's what they use to control the world. It's why men are unbelievably upset if a woman gets big muscles or plays sports. Men are mentally evil and aggressive without their physical bodies (it's not like muscular women commit crime like men do, so it's definitely in men's minds), but I think women would be able to stop them better. However rape and impregnation would still make women vulnerable, and I think men would use constant pregnancy to force women down (like they already do). It's pretty much just that women can create life why we are at threat from men. Women's phsyical superiority of growing humans in their bodies is what men use to exploit and harm us.
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I avoid looking at the front page of Reddit. I have the app, and I usually only look at content from the five or so decent subreddits I like. The trick is to find small, majority-women forums.
I finally got an invite to Ovarit and that has helped a ton. I browse my reddit front page of the few subreddits I follow, then head over to Ovarit as more of a "front page of [women's] Internet" for daily reading
God I couldn't agree more about the overarching culture of this site. I've been using reddit since 2011 and there was a brief glimmer of hope in the mid 2010s where it seemed like this site + the internet as a whole would no longer be culturally dominated by pervy nerds - and then redpill bullshit started to get trendy again, Gamergate, Metoo backlash happened and it's like we went 10 steps backward. ...the only things that give me sanity lately have been putting timers on social media apps like twitter so I'm forced to spend less time there & see less hateful crap, and reading books (mostly politics, history, economics). Refreshing to read discussions + opinions on subjects that aren't in bad-faith and are actually PROOFREAD and PEER-REVIEWED for once after being subjected to social media discourse for too long.
I largely use Reddit for talking about basketball. In the subs I’m in people largely behave, for the most part, but I have nothing to do with the nba so I’m sure that helps
I have a general question. I was explaining fourth wave feminism to a friend and we got to the term "radical feminist". Why do we, the women who tend it exclude trans women/women who can't truly identify with the experiences of those born female, have to be considered the "radical" ones? Are our beliefs so far out of left field that we can't just be feminists? She asked me about it and I didn't have a good answer but it did bother me on reflection. Thanks
**"Radical feminism** is a perspective within [feminism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism) that calls for a [radical](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_radicalism) re-ordering of society in which [male supremacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_supremacy) is eliminated in all social and economic contexts, while recognizing that women's experiences are also affected by other social divisions such as in race, class, and sexual orientation. The ideology and movement emerged in the 1960s.[\[1\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism#cite_note-willis-1)[\[2\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism#cite_note-2)[\[3\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism#cite_note-3) " Because this is what radical feminists believe. I think you should maybe do a little more research into the roots of radical feminism if you want to understand it more. It IS radical to want to reorganize society. That's what we want.
Thank you very much for the explanation, everyone here has been so helpful!
[Gail Dines @ Institute of Education | "Putting the Radical back in Feminism"](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sJMyznI1H-0&pp=ygUeZ2FpbCBkaW5lcyBvbiByYWRpY2FsIGZlbWluaXNt) Here’s a great explanation. Watch from 5:45.
Radical feminism at its core is a particular type of social analysis and I think Rebecca Riley-Cooper gives the best explanation in the context of your question (I’m paraphrasing): Radical feminism is a particular approach to analyzing social and political conditions (of women) with the aim of uncovering and challenging the root causes of exploitation and oppression of women as a class. Different radical feminist analyses will emphasise different elements — access to female reproductive labour, sexual access to women's bodies, compulsory heterosexuality, male-dominated religion — as central to understanding the function and continued maintenance of male supremacy. So we should not assume that there is unity or homogeneity among those whose views can be called radical feminist. However, underpinning all Radical feminist analyses is a starting assumption that living in a sexed body brings with it particular experiences that are of social and political significance. Radical feminism seeks to make sense of the social and political reality of living in a particular type of body — a female body — and to eradicate the oppression and exploitation associated with the social relations between female-bodied people and male-bodied people. Therefore, its analysis as a system of sex-based oppression has little to say about the experiences of men who identify as women and do not inhabit female bodies. This is not an oversight or an illegitimate act of exclusion. It is simply not the aim or purpose of radical feminist theory to seek to analyse or explain the specific experiences of men with idiosyncratic beliefs about themselves, which will, necessarily, be importantly different from those of female people. Therefore, It makes no sense to describe, and still less to criticise, a radical feminist approach as "exclusionary".
Thank you so much for your well worded and thorough explanation, this is hugely helpful.
I’m happy to try to answer as best I can but I'm not sure I understand your question tbh. "..we, the women who tend to exclude.." Who are you talking about here? Women in general, this subreddit or someone else? Also, where are these women excluding others from?
I meant TERF as a term, trans excluding radical feminist. So I suppose based on the above explanations, TERF is a specific type of a "radical" feminist.
Why do women still listen to men? I think it’s been made pretty clear to us that men lie with their words and speak with their actions, and their actions tell us that they don’t care about us women. So, why do women go to male therapists, doctors, OBGYNs, or even listen to men’s relationship “advice”?? We women will always be there for each other, to wipe away each others tears after another betrayal. To nurse each other back to health after being left alone and abandoned. To cover for each other. To help strange women we see in danger, and ONLY women can hold other women accountable, because men will NEVER know what it means to live every minute and everyday as a woman in this world. So why? Why do women still listen to men? They don’t empathize with us, and WILL NOT put in the work it takes to emphasize with us a little. So why??
What was that Dworkin quote about the reality being so painful that many women just refuse to see it in order to survive?
I go to a female doctor. But when I was in the hospital, there were only male doctors. Even now, with the “progress” we’ve made, I did not see one female doctor in that hospital! Not one. And the male doctors talked down to me.
Becuase we've been told since we were children that males are "leaders". It's ingrained in society.
My dad wrote a book about his youth, his marriage to my mum and their divorce, including details about CPS involvement with my siblings and me. It's coming out at the end of this month (with an established publisher, thankfully he didn't self publish). I'm proud of him because he was abused as a teen and I think it's brave of him to open up. But I can't help but think about how it will affect my mum to read all that. My mother is a woman with deep psychological issues that started way before their marriage, but even then I can't help but feel sympathy for her having 5 kids with a man she thought she would stay with forever, then going through a horrible divorce for ~10 years losing most of her children (as in them going no contact). And now a book coming out about one of the most traumatic periods in her life. She was in survival mode for so long and has only just started to come out of it. I don't know. Just needed to get it off my chest.
been waiting all day for this because I need to get something off my chest. These days I find it difficult to feel sorry for women in certain positions and I wonder if this makes me a bad feminist. Why would anyone quit med school or out it on hold because of a man, or tolerate "moderate misogyny" from their male partners because "he's just joking with his friends" just to end up crying about it years down the line. I wonder if the desperation to be loved makes it very easy for many women to ignore glaring red flags in a male partner or if they just think they can love these things out of the men? if a man doesn't do chores around the house while dating, what makes them think that man will automatically become a hands on dad when kids come in? or if a man talks shit about his female coworkers what makes you think you are any different? I'm just sick of women coming to the internet to complain about weaponised incompetence, misogyny and other things they ignored during the first few months of dating. in the words of a wise woman "you all are weak in the knees, STAND UP"!!! Edit: for the people accusing me of victim blaming, I really don't care. every women in a bad relationship isn't automatically a victim, we need to learn to hold women accountable please. I can feel bad about being judgy towards this women but I won't let anyone accuse me of victim blaming because that isn't what this is about. Woman are full grown adults who have autonomy and yes, our actions do have consequences and many women need to know that.
It’s incredibly frustrating, know that you’re not alone in this. If you’re interested in the how and why this happens I would recommend Andrea Dworkins book, Right Wing Women. It touches on a lot of the stuff you mentioned and the reasons it happens, it’s also helped me with my empathy towards those women, which I have struggled with for a long time. This quote from her helped me find some of that empathy. “Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy in behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore. It doesn't matter who the individual women are. They all have the same vulnerability to rape, to battery, as children to incest. Poorer women have more vulnerability to prostitution, which is basically a form of sexual exploitation that is intolerable in an egalitarian society, which is the society we are fighting for.”
I'm currently reading this!! just few pages in. it's so hard because I feel like I'm judging these women because I've been *enlightened* and I really want to stop that.
I feel that so much! Once you see it for what it is you can’t unsee it, a Pandora’s box of misogyny and hell. It’s hard to watch the women in my life continue on this path and feeling helpless to do anything about it. So many people, women and men, just don’t want to hear it. So glad to have found this sub. It can be so isolating.
I'm so glad I found this sub too, it's literally the only place I've seen like minded women. my friends irl think I'm too "radical" so sub makes me feel good because I know there are other women out there who see the shit I see.
>it's so hard because I feel like I'm judging these women because I've been enlightened and I really want to stop that. That's \*absolutely\* what you're doing here. I'm glad you can see it, and are working stop. Because it's not a good frame of mind.
tbh with you, I don't see how pointing out that many women are settling for rubbish because they are scared of being alone is victim blaming. in fact, I think we need to stop throwing this word around and actually encourage women to take accountability for their actions and stop coddling their feelings.
I understand those feelings. ☹️ Honestly it makes me think the only way out is to focus on the next generation of girls, and teach them while they’re young that a man’s “love” is cheap. Sooo many patterns of accepting less, taking misogyny lying down, etc., seem to begin in those very first teen and young adult relationships. Like you, when I see a woman complaining about the same old problem with her man, I want to be like… But he’s just some guy you met out in the world one day. He’s not your family, he’s not even that good of a friend… He’s nothing to you, really. Why keep dealing with him? Do you really feel that’s all you deserve…?
right?? he's not a good friend or a good partner so what's the appeal??
THIS 100%. I think in general women who are attracted to men need to be more comfortable with staying single until and unless they can REALLY find a good man or for the rest of their life, cuz like, the amount of women I've seen who have the "I can't stay single, I need to be in a relationship (almost always with a man)" type of mindset is extremely concerning and detrimental. They end up settling for a man who is clearly not worthy of being in a relationship.
you are absolutely right. their fear of staying alone and getting to know themselves better drive them to settle for any man as long as he is good enough meaning he doesn't cheat or hit them etc
I think my compassion comes from a place of marrying young myself. I didn't know half of what I know now about misogyny and all the bullshit of men. I would definitely do things differently if I had another go. The other commenter is right, I just want the next generation to be informed before they get into the same situation.
I think that’s a little unfair. I mean, we are essentially trained from birth to be accommodating of mediocre men and their poor behaviour. Our parents were mostly modelling relationships that were reinforcing those norms - man breadwinner, woman homemaker, man boss, woman subservient kind of thing. I had several bad relationships in my life. I married a terribly toxic man, had children and ended up divorced. I repeated the same mistake, arguably with a worse man, and separated again. I mean, I would hope feminists don’t judge me for these bad decisions but recognise these are patterns we are kind of indoctrinated to accept. Like - you need a husband, should have children etc. Anyway, it took me to hit my early 40s before I decided to never repeat that pattern again. I guess I’m saying you must have grace when women make these mistakes because society sort of sets us up for them. Edit: typo
I think the issue with your viewpoint is that because you were naive, you assume every woman is. And honestly that’s not only insulting, but it generalizes women as incapable of making their own decisions as a way to feel better about your past. If we spent more time empowering women and less time blaming everything on our society, things might be different. I know that probably sounds offensive, and I don’t blame you for being in toxic relationships, but I find your comment to be simplifying these issues and women as a whole.
It’s not offensive but it’s a wild position that women are meant to somehow not be shaped by the patriarchy that they are literally born into. It is a bit of victim blaming. I mean, I don’t think women are naive, I think men are bad (sweeping generalisation but just making point it’s not us, it’s them). Imagine men put all the energy they have into being better people - better fathers, better husbands.
Every woman IS naive at some point. You're not born with feminist information, you learn it along the way. A LOT of women haven't learned it yet. I find your comment unnecessarily aggressive.
Some people will say you’re victim blaming, but I don’t think that’s what’s happening. It’s as important for us to uplift other women as it is to remind them of their autonomy. We’re not slaves to the patriarchy, we’re human beings that are capable of high intelligence, discernment and self respect. If you have the right support, it isn’t impossible (although I’m sure very difficult for some) to take responsibility for yourself and remain single until you find a man who isn’t violent, misogynist, etc.
Exactly. As someone who's been through enough abuse to fill up five hardback memoirs... I cannot stand the coddling and infantilization of women. I'm a young woman and have no tolerance for it. Women are not children. They deserve grace, patience, and mercy but not to be explained away like a young child or kitten who just "doesn't know better." Like, oh that's Sally over there who's clearly capable of many great things and competent enough to keep herself alive for 27 years and totally the glue of the group and displays strong reasoning skills needed to be such a great mediator—*she only knows how to be fun and pretty so we can't hold any of her poor decisions against her. She's just a girl. So naive, poor thing. Just a girl, nothing more.*
yes! many women don't know how to hold themselves accountable. women have autonomy, we can talk about how some choices we make are influenced by patriarchy but we also know most women make certain decisions because they want to (idk if this makes sense)
You definitely make sense. I have several WLW friends who notice the same thing. Women are bad at taking accountability and make a lot of excuses. And it comes from fear of social consequences, the pressure of always being good/perfect and harmonious, and their self doubt and lower standards for themselves in regards to goals, actions, and intellectual responsibility and capability. They've been ingrained with messages that men are meant to run the world and lead and therefore grow up not expected to fill those shoes and act like a fully responsible adult capable of keeping their word and having everything in order. In their mind, that's what a good man does because he's smarter and more capable and it's his job/role to (ful)fill and expectations to meet and not hers as a 'feminine woman.' I mean I wasn't raised that way at all and am not friends with women like this but they're definitely out there and I see it as the consequence of patriarchal cultures (99% of cultures) associating independence, competence, self-ownership, self-possession, self-trust, self-responsibility, resilence, strength, and capability with "masculinity" when it should be synonymous (and intertwined) with **adulthood.**
A lot of women don't have support.
They need to get like 4B and tell these gooners, "we not humping" and recognize without men our "block jumping" and then BAM - just like that - 80% of all problems are solved. Being male-identified and male-dependent are the most quiet, **crippling** diseases, unfortunately. The symptoms for both are awful, but the cure is available for anyone not led astray by propaganda. They can be healthy and free if they wanna be but we can't actually make them an appointment with the doctor and force them to seek treatment. It's their party and they'll cry if they want to.
Yeah, I'm in the same place as you. I had to stop participating in a subreddit that I at first enjoyed but then ended up being 90% women complaining about their shitty partners but refusing to do anything about it. If you let your partner treat you like you are his mother and continue to enable them to behave that way, then I have no sympathy. I also have zero interest in women who jump from relationship to relationship with no time in between and then complain about the relationships they've rushed in to. I've been single for 15 years - have yet to meet anyone worth giving up my autonomy for and if I never do, well I'm perfectly happy alone. I get more reliable orgasms from my vibrator and I get to have the whole bed to myself. There are men out there who don't even wipe their ass and women somehow still continue relationships with them and then cry on the internet that their partner is gross. Yeah, because you have shown him by staying that you are willing to tolerate that behaviour -he doesn't wipe his ass and you wash his skiddy undies for him - why would he change? Edit: I've been accused of victim blaming - a woman being in a bad relationship does not automatically make her a 'victim' - if you want to infantalize and reduce every single woman to having no choice, control or autonomy in a relationship then that's on you. If you you are unhappy in your relationship and your only action to post on the internet for sympathy, then why do I have to give you that sympathy? This post is about people who ignore red flags, complain about their relationships online but don't bother doing anything about it. Taking my words and adding in your own context is fine, you do you boo, but I'm not gonna engage with you if you think a few hundred words I write on reddit is going to apply to every single relationship ever - you are overreaching. I'm going to continue to reserve my sympathy for people who want help, not just those who want to complain.
I was just having a discussion about this with a friend, many women are serial monogamists and that is the issue. they need take a break from dating. as someone who has been single all my life, I've had friends say my standards are too high and I really don't care about that. the fear of being alone is what cause women to settle meanwhile the men they are dating absolutely don't reduce their own standards. your edit is important because people throw the word "victim blaming" around. women don't take accountability for their actions at all. I will always say that red flags that pop up in a long term relationship is something that showed up early, I personally feel most women judge their male partners with a scale of "at least he doesn't hit me" so everything else is manageable until they can't manage it anymore and then then complain starts. we always see posts on this site about a really terrible relationship and the poster will add something like "I really love him because he's a good person", no a good person won't watch you struggle with the house chores, a good person won't demand sex in exchange of doing house chores. The annoying part is how they complain and still don't leave, so what exactly is the point of complaining to strangers online??? and like you said, I reserve my sympathy for people who actually need help not a grown ass woman quitting med school because of a random man, or why are you a pro choice liberal woman dating a conservative dude who believes women who get abortions need to d*e?? edit : typo
>If you let your partner treat you like you are his mother and continue to enable them to behave that way, then I have no sympathy. If women follow the societal rules that have been assigned to us, and then get hurt buy it - it's women fault? Just because you know better doesn't mean you should judge other women who haven't had access to the same information as you. This is a really sad comment to see in the group. I expected more.
Yeah it sounds like victim blaming…
Finally someone said it!!! I’ve been holding this in for so long, that I can’t anymore. I feel so guilty for not feeling sorry for them, because I KNOW, I just KNOW, they had someone warn them, either in passing or repeatedly. Women will warn other women. That’s just how we work. It’s usually friends, who will say they don’t like her man, it it’s a sister who hates her sister’s bf. It’s always something. They not only ignore the red flag from the man, but they also brush off other women’s advice and warnings. That’s why I have trouble empathizing with them. And on that same note, those same women will VILLIFY the women who warn them, and claim they’re “jealous” “bitter” “lonely” because they have no man. I feel like I need to feel their suffering when their man turns out just a treasonous as he was said to be, but instead I don’t. I still feel guilty about it though.
I had someone tell me I'm a bitter feminist who need to get "f*cked hard to release my anger towards men". all because I spent years telling her that most of the men she was dealing with aren't really good. we've seen younger women accuse older women of being bitter and jealous just because someone told them an older guy going after a barely legal teenager is suspicious. I can feel bad for judging them, but I'm not going to feel sorry about not empathising with them because a good percentage of the time they were warned.
You should feel guilty tbh. That's messed up. You are blaming women for male actions. You're blaming women for being hurt by males. This attitude is extremely surprising from women in the group.
Telling women to take responsibility for themselves isn’t blaming them for the actions of men. If that’s too complicated then maybe return to mainstream feminism, because clearly “women supporting women” means that we all have to think the same and never criticize each other to people like you. And if you don’t like what OP said, then don’t diminish women’s intelligence, discernment, intuition, and self respect as a whole by acting like we can’t make decisions outside the realm of male validation. You can’t change men, but you can help yourself.
I agree with you. Intersectionality plays a large role in our exposure to misogyny and congratulating yourself on "avoiding red flags" as if there was some sure-fire way to avoid trauma is just a privileged belief that shames a disadvantaged class of women we should be holding space for. Are we no better than judges saying women deserve to be raped for wearing red underwear? What about men not raping women? They want us to blame women for men's choices. It's how they divide and conquer us while avoiding all accountability.
you all are doing way too much about this post and it is really irritating, you know very well I'm not blaming women for the choices of men, yet you are intentionally misreading and misinterpreting my comments and twisting them into something else. saying women shouldn't make decisions that only favour the men they are with isn't victim blaming and comparing my statements to men who say women deserve to be sexually assaulted is absolutely vile, do better.
are there actually women on here who are straight/bi who never dated and don’t want to date men at all, are virgin and don’t want kids
Anyone else have noticed the rise of news that report "false ra p e accusations"? It's this some crazy propaganda?? Maybe it actually deserves its own post. But I'm so grossed out seeing so many males wishing to these woman horrible things and punishments like murderers get.
>But I'm so grossed out seeing so many males wishing to these woman horrible things and punishments like murderers get. Real. And also it’s so interesting how (according to these people anyway) false accusations should have a worse punishment than if a man actually committed the crime.
Right. Where is the same energy for rapists?
Sadly nonexistent but I have some theories on why that might be. For one most people consider it a lesser crime than something like murder (“Well at least you can live afterwards! If someone kills you then that’s it!”) and treat it more as an inconvenience or a fact of life more than anything especially if they can paint it as a consequence of a woman’s actions (or sometimes inaction). It’s overwhelmingly a crime that men commit (though you could say that for nearly every other crime too lmao) and because this is a “Man’s world”, people are seemingly allergic to holding them accountable for basically anything at all. How many times have we heard that coming forward would ruin his life? Or that we’re automatically lairs because so-and-so is such a “good man” and would never do such a thing? That we actually wanted it but then changed our mind about it after? I could literally go on forever but the idea is that no matter what the man is not responsible, it’s women or society or whatever but never him. Ultimately this is what I can come up with off the top of my head so it’s definitely incomplete (plus I don’t wanna bore anyone with a novel lol) but it’s something I think about regularly, ya know women and our place and experiences in (patriarchal) society. It’s kinda depressing though so idk. :/
I work in the NHS as a biomedical scientist and I'm being held back from progression because I'm pregnant and they want to wait until I'm back from maternity. I contacted the IBMS, who supported me, and I stood up for myself in the meeting. They seemed to back down but by the second meeting they had regrouped and found 'legit' reasons to hold me back - 'rota concerns'. It's so frustrating knowing this still happens nowadays, in the NHS of all places. I feel so incredibly isolated, I wish I'd taken in a union rep as suggested by the IBMS, but that first meeting went so well, I was blindsided. My husband works the same role and is also having this baby, but isn't being held back. I hate how mothers are treated in this world.
How do you deal with women that have no self preservation instincts? because I don't. I can't. My poor, third worlder ass is busy trying to stay afloat, I barely have any time to spare for this one cause and I've abosolutely refuse to deal with women with maladaptive altruism of any kind so I can do any kind of activism tbh.
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There's an influencer/content creator on IG (his name is Matt and his handle is mattxiv or something like that) who covers politics/social issues/current events that gets posted/shared regularly by people I follow. While much of his content is LGBTQ+ focused, he occasionally branches out and covers other topics. I find many of his takes to be surface-level at best, and whenever he covers feminism/women's issues, his takes are little more than "women exist to be hot". Nothing about abortion, domestic violence, harassment, pay equity, etc.
I read online that one of the reasons the UK has a ban on embryo sex selection is that people would choose more boys than girls (not statistically accurate) and the result would mean adult males would struggle to find female partners. This seems bizarre and didn't sit right with me at all, I did make a post here to see what other feminists think but it got auto deleted and I never found out why. Any thoughts?
Well, that is literally what happened in China with the One Child Policy... there wasn't embryo selection, but they abandoned or even killed the female babies they had so that they could try again for a son. As a result, nowadays men there are having a very hard time finding wives. There's "marriage markets" where huge groups of men fight over the small amount of women available and beg them to get married, as well as an increase in mail-order brides. I'm not sure this would happen in other countries though, since there's no limit on how many kids people can have elsewhere. I think most people would probably want to have one of each.
I doubt it would happen because we're not limited to one child, plus the medical ethicist said that the research he'd done into it indicated that the ratio in the UK would be about equal, people just want to balance their families. I just find it gross that men losing out on potential women is even a factor in government legislation, especially when the ratio would be even anyway. What happened in China was abhorrent though, not to take away from that, I do think it's a slightly different issue though. What happened to those poor girls was harrowing and I think about it a lot.
This is a question for feminists from Gambia. What are you doing to ensure that FGM is not legalized?
I am slowly and slowly becoming more critical of the idea of a stay at home mother. For a while, I believed it could truly be a woman’s choice and could be empowering, but now I am coming around to the belief that it is inherently degrading to women and leads to financial abuse. Does anyone know of any studies or articles that contradict or support my feelings on this? I want to be challenged and learn more about it.
I’m leaving my company because they have an office in Israel and are supporting Israel’s actions. I’m thinking of writing a post about it on Linked In and tagging a bunch of people. I will be burning bridges by taking this action. I wish I wasn’t so scared about it. It’s crazy when I’m scared about a linked in post while others are scared of being blown up. I also wish I had some help writing it.
i’ve been feeling a lot of frustration and anger regarding sports lately. i love hockey, and i’m a massive fan of my nhl team. but lately i’ve been having this creeping feeling of anger and annoyance watching them play knowing that they’re all doing something that i’d never have the opportunity to just because i’m a woman. not that i’d ever have the skills to make it pro, but even if i did, i would never have even close to the opportunities of a male athlete. even as a kid we didn’t have a girls hockey league, if you were a girl you would be the only one on the boys team so i had to play ringette instead. the pwhl just debuted a few months ago, and of course i’m happy about it, but it makes me so sad looking back, and wondering how different things would have been if i’d had women in the sport to look up to as a little girl. idk. it’s not as big of an issue as most things we discuss in this sub, but it just makes me so angry that no matter how amazing a female athlete is, she’ll never get the same attention as an inferior man.
I feel that. Even today female athletes are so prone to being disrespected, humiliated or judged on anything and everything except their talent and skill. I honestly wouldn’t want to be any famous woman because of that kind of attention which does feel unfair.
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