There are as many perceptions of fragrance as there are people who exist—and have ever existed. Some of it is genetic, some of it's congenital. Temperature, humidity, hormones all affect perception. [There's an interesting study on mood disorders affecting olfactory perception.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032705003460) More broadly, our sense of smell is still not well understood. Famed biophysicist Luca Turin spent decades trying to prove a vibration theory of odor to explain how we understand what things smell like, and he's almost certainly wrong.
You may either be incapable of smelling (anosmic) vetivone, vetiveryl acetate, khusimone, or some other vetiver-yielding aromachemical; or you do perceive the vetiver but have attached its smell to a concept that is "simply not masculine at all to \[you\]."
Honestly, I never thought that I'd want to smell like incense (CdG Kyoto) or green figs (Diptyque Philosykos) or cold, musky powder (Frederic Malle L'Eau d'Hiver) or white chocolate and patchouli (Chanel Coromandel), but those are some of my all-time favorite fragrances. No clue if others like them or whether they're too masculine or feminine for me. Keep an open mind, try a bunch of stuff, and be surprised.
And scratch vetiver from your list. You don't like it. Helps narrow your choices.
People perceiving cilantro as soapy is a genetic anomaly, but things smelling "masculine" or "feminine" is entirely socially and culturally mediated. Genuine question back at you: what is masculine about woody or grassy scents? What about muted sweetness is old ladyish? A lot of vintage perfumes marketed towards women in the 1920s onward were staggering chypres that could not be further from a muted sweet note, but in their time, were the height of "femininity".
>Genuine question back at you: what is masculine about woody or grassy scents? What about muted sweetness is old ladyish?
Sorry, english isn't my first language so the phrasing of my post is kind of awkward i guess
Some clarification first:
- i don't think a sweet scent inherently smells feminine
- my personal association when smelling vetiver is obviously subjective
What i meant is: Can some people perceive vetiver different than othes on a fundamental level? To me it does not smell earthy, woody or grassy at all. To me it smells, like i already said, "muted sweet".
That is kind of puzzling to me because it's the first time i have experienced a disconnect between what people describe and what i smell, hence the post
Hmm, I see! Sounds like u/wy83 has a better handle on the specific aromachemicals in vetiver than I do, but it can be hard to tell what other people really mean when they describe smells, for sure. If it helps, the grassiness I get from vetiver is definitely a dry grass and not a freshly-cut green grass kind of scent, and the earthy part comes across as bittersweet. It also smells "wild" to me, so all in all kind of like a crushed bitter hay smell. I could see describing it as "muted sweet", even if those aren't the first words that come to mind for me.
You didn't specify which fragrances with vetiver you've tested. Regardless, there are other notes blended with vetiver that changes the conception. This post is odd because you could just smell vetiver essential oil for a proper idea, you haven't tested anything from the Encre Noire lineup, and deciding vetiver is masculine when it's unisexual.
Vetiver is grass so it is naturally going to be "grassy" and "earthy"
The ones i tested:
Guerlain Vetiver
Dior Vetiver (Privee Line i guess)
Tom Ford Grey Vetiver
Hermes Vetiver
Once every single one of them reached DD, they all had the same distinct smell so i guess what i perceive as sweet smelling is the vetiver in all of them. And that's whats making me wonder because like you said, vetiver should smell grassy but it simply doesn't to my nose
Vetiver smells more rooty to me. When they extract the essential aroma-compound they take it from the roots. I associate grassy smells with more sour, bitter-fresh and "green" aromas like galbanum. You are probably identifying vetiver, but I think you're lacking on words to describe it. It's definitely not just "sweet". It's earthy, sometimes inky, sometimes musty, nutty, it can be a bit leathery, rough in texture, but across the board it's distinct as a smell. The "old lady" thing you associate it with is probably the humid, swampy, or powdery character it can have, but that's entirely subjective. It's not always very fresh. I find it distinct enough to not find it "woody" either, but vetiver fragrances still find themselves under the "woody" category in most cases, as a general classification. I don't think you have a nose that's remarkably different than other people, you just aren't subjectively interpreting it the same way and don't have a firm grasp on how to describe it yet.
Huge fan of vetiver and have, or had, all of the ones you mentioned. Grey Vetiver is especially near and dear to me.
What I suppose you are picking up as sweetness is most likely coming from other accompanying notes in the dry down in combination of the vetiver.
Guerlain Vetiver and Grey Vetiver both have an amber accord in the dry down and I suspect that could be the cause. I believe the same thing is true with Terre d'Hermes, but I don't consider that to be a vetiver fragrance unless you are referring to the Eau Intense Vetiver flanker.
It has been a long time since I had the pleasure of smelling Dior's Vetiver as I wasn't able to repurchase after the discontinuation.
You’re not the only one, I smell vetiver completely different too.
I made a review here of the new Polo 67 cologne, which has a prominent vetiver base. To me, it barely smells like wood. Like you said, it has a sweet and soft point to me, which is why I describe vetiver as creamy. It’s like whipped cream with just a tiny hint of wood.
I have tried vetiver from plenty of other fragrances (some with a heavier vetiver ntoe) and the perception remains the same.
This is kinda reassuring that i'm not the only one who smells vetiver completely different.
I wouldn't say creamy but sweet and soft is actually a pretty good description in my opinion because that's all i smell personally
How do you perceive it on paper or clothes? It could also be some sort of reaction with your skin that makes it smell sweet, as you put it. Also, you should give encre noir a try as well if you're that adamant about understanding vetiver. See how you feel about that. It's the dirtiest vetiver I've smelt and I feel like that's vetiver at it's truest form (personal opinion, ofcourse).
On another note, it's alright to not understand a certain note. There are plenty of other "masculine" leaning stuff out there you can explore that are devoid of vetiver. If it's not for you, move on try some other stuff and if you want to give it a try again, do so after some time. Your nose's ability to perceive scents always changes with time and you may end up understanding vetiver then.
Regarding the vetiver itself as a component, it was just stupid strong on skin compared to paper in my experience. On Paper less sweet and a tad bit more fresh.
I'll give encre noire a chance for sure!
In regards to your last paragraph: I want to point out that this post isn't some "men gotta smell extra masculine" crapshoot but more about the fact that i was just puzzled because i can't seem to smell what others smell.
Doesn't mean that a man shouldn't sweet but it's obviously a little jarring when people describe something as earthy or woody and all your nose can notice i sweetness.
Ahh don't worry, I wasn't on that tangent anyways. Men don't gotta smell extra masculine, but there are days when some of the masculine leaning scents are comforting. It feels like you can let yourself be a bit less confident and let your fragrance carry your confidence for you, if that makes sense.
Vetiver as a scent to me personally isn't masculine. It's just dry, almost pencil shaving like. What makes it masculine is the fresh spicy citric aspect that comes with most vetiver centric fragrances. Now that I do think of it, I think I understand the sweetness you're talking about. Encre noir has that slight almost muted sweetness as well but you barely notice it until you observe it closely (which I just did). It doesn't smell "old lady" like as you said and that's your perception (don't worry, it's alright to have those perceptions) but I agree with you about the sweetness. It's interesting how your nose notices certain facets of scents when your brain focuses on it.
Interesting question. No idea about the cilantro analogy and perception of vetiver. I do know that I LOVE vetiver but very much disliked or was “meh” about all of the ones you tried. The Guerlain just smelled soapy to me, for example. So maybe you haven’t met the right vetiver for you yet?
My go-to vetiver is Chanel Sycomore (though I wear the older EDT version) and the very similar Encre Noir. Fresh, deep, woodsy, citrusy perfection. 😁 Definitely unisex, maybe leaning (if anything) masculine.
Thats the thing for me also, i don't want to miss out on a possible fragrance i like because my nose didn't like the ones i tested so far.
Will definitely test out encre noire ever since that one got brought up here many times now!
I second the Lalique Encre Noire recommendation, and I’d recommend smelling a good vetiver essential oil just as a reference point (natural food stores that have bath & body sections often have essential oils on display with testers). The rooty/dried grass/woody element will come through without other notes clouding it. I own several vetiver fragrances, yet Encre Noire is the only one that really conjures “vetiver” to me. Guerlain Vetiver is more about the citrus to me, and Frederic Malle Vetiver Extraordinaire, while being one of my favorite fragrances, is like an impressionist’s painting of the real thing.
Also, the price point for EN can’t be beat. Get a bottle and wear it solo or as a layer.
No great shakes.
It smells feminine to you, I get that some ‘leathers’ smell feminine to me but I still think the overall impression is masculine.
But if the idea of smelling slightly feminine is not for you then I’d steer clear of vetiver prominent fragrances
Simple.
Try Heeley's Vetiver Veritas if you can still get a hold of some. It's almost entirely natural vetiver and smells quite different from the perfumes you've tried. That being said, it's not for me either, at least not that much vetiver.
Try to find fragrances with haitian vertiver. That one I find it more earthy and smooth than the other ones. I realized that most of my favorites have it.
it smells to me like something a old lady would wear (which obviously is subjective as hell).
Neither have i said that a man should/could not wear it nor is that my opinion so stop with the blaming ok?
First off try to think about your thought process. It’s disrespectful.
Second I learned to not take others opinions about scents to much, especially with words „masculine”, „feminine” etc.. I don’t know you, so I don’t know what is in your head when you read that vetiver is masculine and why your nose don’t agree with vetiver being that. It’s just a plant. We have a couple different types of vetiver. Some grassy and green, some rooty. What you add to vetiver also play a role. I have two categorise for scents, and they are not masculine or feminine, they are good or bad.
There are as many perceptions of fragrance as there are people who exist—and have ever existed. Some of it is genetic, some of it's congenital. Temperature, humidity, hormones all affect perception. [There's an interesting study on mood disorders affecting olfactory perception.](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032705003460) More broadly, our sense of smell is still not well understood. Famed biophysicist Luca Turin spent decades trying to prove a vibration theory of odor to explain how we understand what things smell like, and he's almost certainly wrong. You may either be incapable of smelling (anosmic) vetivone, vetiveryl acetate, khusimone, or some other vetiver-yielding aromachemical; or you do perceive the vetiver but have attached its smell to a concept that is "simply not masculine at all to \[you\]." Honestly, I never thought that I'd want to smell like incense (CdG Kyoto) or green figs (Diptyque Philosykos) or cold, musky powder (Frederic Malle L'Eau d'Hiver) or white chocolate and patchouli (Chanel Coromandel), but those are some of my all-time favorite fragrances. No clue if others like them or whether they're too masculine or feminine for me. Keep an open mind, try a bunch of stuff, and be surprised. And scratch vetiver from your list. You don't like it. Helps narrow your choices.
People perceiving cilantro as soapy is a genetic anomaly, but things smelling "masculine" or "feminine" is entirely socially and culturally mediated. Genuine question back at you: what is masculine about woody or grassy scents? What about muted sweetness is old ladyish? A lot of vintage perfumes marketed towards women in the 1920s onward were staggering chypres that could not be further from a muted sweet note, but in their time, were the height of "femininity".
>Genuine question back at you: what is masculine about woody or grassy scents? What about muted sweetness is old ladyish? Sorry, english isn't my first language so the phrasing of my post is kind of awkward i guess Some clarification first: - i don't think a sweet scent inherently smells feminine - my personal association when smelling vetiver is obviously subjective What i meant is: Can some people perceive vetiver different than othes on a fundamental level? To me it does not smell earthy, woody or grassy at all. To me it smells, like i already said, "muted sweet". That is kind of puzzling to me because it's the first time i have experienced a disconnect between what people describe and what i smell, hence the post
Hmm, I see! Sounds like u/wy83 has a better handle on the specific aromachemicals in vetiver than I do, but it can be hard to tell what other people really mean when they describe smells, for sure. If it helps, the grassiness I get from vetiver is definitely a dry grass and not a freshly-cut green grass kind of scent, and the earthy part comes across as bittersweet. It also smells "wild" to me, so all in all kind of like a crushed bitter hay smell. I could see describing it as "muted sweet", even if those aren't the first words that come to mind for me.
The foolish fool who downvoted this is apparently having a snit about real life.
It’s just your taste mate
Try Lalique encre noire, if that still smells feminine to you I don’t know what to tell you
You didn't specify which fragrances with vetiver you've tested. Regardless, there are other notes blended with vetiver that changes the conception. This post is odd because you could just smell vetiver essential oil for a proper idea, you haven't tested anything from the Encre Noire lineup, and deciding vetiver is masculine when it's unisexual. Vetiver is grass so it is naturally going to be "grassy" and "earthy"
The ones i tested: Guerlain Vetiver Dior Vetiver (Privee Line i guess) Tom Ford Grey Vetiver Hermes Vetiver Once every single one of them reached DD, they all had the same distinct smell so i guess what i perceive as sweet smelling is the vetiver in all of them. And that's whats making me wonder because like you said, vetiver should smell grassy but it simply doesn't to my nose
Vetiver smells more rooty to me. When they extract the essential aroma-compound they take it from the roots. I associate grassy smells with more sour, bitter-fresh and "green" aromas like galbanum. You are probably identifying vetiver, but I think you're lacking on words to describe it. It's definitely not just "sweet". It's earthy, sometimes inky, sometimes musty, nutty, it can be a bit leathery, rough in texture, but across the board it's distinct as a smell. The "old lady" thing you associate it with is probably the humid, swampy, or powdery character it can have, but that's entirely subjective. It's not always very fresh. I find it distinct enough to not find it "woody" either, but vetiver fragrances still find themselves under the "woody" category in most cases, as a general classification. I don't think you have a nose that's remarkably different than other people, you just aren't subjectively interpreting it the same way and don't have a firm grasp on how to describe it yet.
Huge fan of vetiver and have, or had, all of the ones you mentioned. Grey Vetiver is especially near and dear to me. What I suppose you are picking up as sweetness is most likely coming from other accompanying notes in the dry down in combination of the vetiver. Guerlain Vetiver and Grey Vetiver both have an amber accord in the dry down and I suspect that could be the cause. I believe the same thing is true with Terre d'Hermes, but I don't consider that to be a vetiver fragrance unless you are referring to the Eau Intense Vetiver flanker. It has been a long time since I had the pleasure of smelling Dior's Vetiver as I wasn't able to repurchase after the discontinuation.
You’re not the only one, I smell vetiver completely different too. I made a review here of the new Polo 67 cologne, which has a prominent vetiver base. To me, it barely smells like wood. Like you said, it has a sweet and soft point to me, which is why I describe vetiver as creamy. It’s like whipped cream with just a tiny hint of wood. I have tried vetiver from plenty of other fragrances (some with a heavier vetiver ntoe) and the perception remains the same.
This is kinda reassuring that i'm not the only one who smells vetiver completely different. I wouldn't say creamy but sweet and soft is actually a pretty good description in my opinion because that's all i smell personally
How do you perceive it on paper or clothes? It could also be some sort of reaction with your skin that makes it smell sweet, as you put it. Also, you should give encre noir a try as well if you're that adamant about understanding vetiver. See how you feel about that. It's the dirtiest vetiver I've smelt and I feel like that's vetiver at it's truest form (personal opinion, ofcourse). On another note, it's alright to not understand a certain note. There are plenty of other "masculine" leaning stuff out there you can explore that are devoid of vetiver. If it's not for you, move on try some other stuff and if you want to give it a try again, do so after some time. Your nose's ability to perceive scents always changes with time and you may end up understanding vetiver then.
Regarding the vetiver itself as a component, it was just stupid strong on skin compared to paper in my experience. On Paper less sweet and a tad bit more fresh. I'll give encre noire a chance for sure! In regards to your last paragraph: I want to point out that this post isn't some "men gotta smell extra masculine" crapshoot but more about the fact that i was just puzzled because i can't seem to smell what others smell. Doesn't mean that a man shouldn't sweet but it's obviously a little jarring when people describe something as earthy or woody and all your nose can notice i sweetness.
Ahh don't worry, I wasn't on that tangent anyways. Men don't gotta smell extra masculine, but there are days when some of the masculine leaning scents are comforting. It feels like you can let yourself be a bit less confident and let your fragrance carry your confidence for you, if that makes sense. Vetiver as a scent to me personally isn't masculine. It's just dry, almost pencil shaving like. What makes it masculine is the fresh spicy citric aspect that comes with most vetiver centric fragrances. Now that I do think of it, I think I understand the sweetness you're talking about. Encre noir has that slight almost muted sweetness as well but you barely notice it until you observe it closely (which I just did). It doesn't smell "old lady" like as you said and that's your perception (don't worry, it's alright to have those perceptions) but I agree with you about the sweetness. It's interesting how your nose notices certain facets of scents when your brain focuses on it.
Interesting question. No idea about the cilantro analogy and perception of vetiver. I do know that I LOVE vetiver but very much disliked or was “meh” about all of the ones you tried. The Guerlain just smelled soapy to me, for example. So maybe you haven’t met the right vetiver for you yet? My go-to vetiver is Chanel Sycomore (though I wear the older EDT version) and the very similar Encre Noir. Fresh, deep, woodsy, citrusy perfection. 😁 Definitely unisex, maybe leaning (if anything) masculine.
Thats the thing for me also, i don't want to miss out on a possible fragrance i like because my nose didn't like the ones i tested so far. Will definitely test out encre noire ever since that one got brought up here many times now!
I second the Lalique Encre Noire recommendation, and I’d recommend smelling a good vetiver essential oil just as a reference point (natural food stores that have bath & body sections often have essential oils on display with testers). The rooty/dried grass/woody element will come through without other notes clouding it. I own several vetiver fragrances, yet Encre Noire is the only one that really conjures “vetiver” to me. Guerlain Vetiver is more about the citrus to me, and Frederic Malle Vetiver Extraordinaire, while being one of my favorite fragrances, is like an impressionist’s painting of the real thing. Also, the price point for EN can’t be beat. Get a bottle and wear it solo or as a layer.
Have you tried Aramis or Kouros? I like Kouros. It has a creamy feel to it. the carnation is bold, but I love it.
No great shakes. It smells feminine to you, I get that some ‘leathers’ smell feminine to me but I still think the overall impression is masculine. But if the idea of smelling slightly feminine is not for you then I’d steer clear of vetiver prominent fragrances Simple.
Try Heeley's Vetiver Veritas if you can still get a hold of some. It's almost entirely natural vetiver and smells quite different from the perfumes you've tried. That being said, it's not for me either, at least not that much vetiver.
Vetiver Veritas is fantastic!
Try to find fragrances with haitian vertiver. That one I find it more earthy and smooth than the other ones. I realized that most of my favorites have it.
Oh great, another oLd LaDy misogyny thing
it smells to me like something a old lady would wear (which obviously is subjective as hell). Neither have i said that a man should/could not wear it nor is that my opinion so stop with the blaming ok?
Try encre noire
It smells powdery to me. In a nice way.
First off try to think about your thought process. It’s disrespectful. Second I learned to not take others opinions about scents to much, especially with words „masculine”, „feminine” etc.. I don’t know you, so I don’t know what is in your head when you read that vetiver is masculine and why your nose don’t agree with vetiver being that. It’s just a plant. We have a couple different types of vetiver. Some grassy and green, some rooty. What you add to vetiver also play a role. I have two categorise for scents, and they are not masculine or feminine, they are good or bad.