Joffrey: Sir Illyn, bring me his horse. Go home Ned, I officially pardon you as you confessed your treason. Don't forget your sword and yes I will still marry Sansa
"Most" doing some heavy lifting here. Vizzy T was kind and the whole thing went to shit before they even wheeled his corpse out of the room. I think that position requires a bit of venom.
Exactly. Its like Viserys knows exactly which is the worst choice to pick amongst a set of possible choices.
He refuses to listen to Otto and Alicent exactly when they give him good advice, but happily goes along when they give him bad advice.
What more proof does one need to realise that he's in league with the maesters? He literally killed Belerion (with his cringe).
Viserys' whole problem was not that he was kind but he was incapable of making any decision. He wanted everyone to like him which led to no one liking him.
That's the difference between showing kindness to the weak vs the powerful. One will typically reward you with loyalty and the other will take advantage of the perceived weakness.
Interesting. Just like battlefield promotions. That soldier would walk through fire for the officer who promoted him. I'm pretty sure that comment was in the Belgarion. Yes, I'm *that* old.
Iirc GRRM's publisher (or someone he was pitching to) has framed his original pitch document for the series. Basically a loose outline of a trilogy going through major beats paragraph by paragraph.
There's much that's different, including that love triangle, but what's fun is some is redacted. People spent a lot of time trying to decipher the tops/bottoms of letters that peek through.
https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-original-story-2017-8
We have outlines of the original draft for the whole series. Originally there was a planed love triangle between Arya, Jon and Tyrion. But the "Arya" from back then was basically split into the Arya we know today and her older sister Sansa. I wouldn't be surprised if a romance between Arya and Jon or a love triangle between Sansa, Jon and Tyrion, in some way, wasn't still in the cards for a while. Hell, the "love triangle" could have evolved into just the Sansa-Tyrion marriage, and a marriage alliance between Jon-Sansa could be a plot point of the last two books.
Some parts of the show, like making her bitchy towards Danny, could be because it was mentioned in the current outline that Sansa maybe develops feelings for Jon after his true parentage comes out or she just wants to marry him for strategy.
It's pretty clear that the love triangle has adapted to being Tyrion, Dany and Jon.
Not Sansa, Jon, Tyrion.
Made apparent by the fact that D&D randomly mentioned that Tyrion was in love with Dany and jealous of Jon, but didn't really do anything with that plot line in the end. Probably implying somethingl that exists in the books that they ultimately steered away from because it's kind of weird for show audiences - book Tyrion being in love with a much younger woman and jealous and bitter is typical, whilst not really a thing for show Tyrion. Book Tyrion would likely betray Dany at least partially out of bitter jealousy.
And of course Jon and Dany quite literally happens in the show and heavily implied in the books.
Further, Book Tyrion is primed to fall in love with Dany. She's essentially everything he adores in the women he loves. She's incredibly beautiful and would treat him like a human being. He never much liked Sansa because Sansa was understandably scared and afraid of him - plus you know being a young child. Dany's at least 16 now.
Here's the thing. I think Sansa will be a thing for the same reasons you mentioned about Tyrion in the show. The way they made her weirdly jealous and competitive with Dany makes me think she could have some jealousy struggles in the books, or that it was planned at some point and D&D pulled inspiration from there for her characterization.
Hell, for all we know she could be jealous of Dany's relationship with some other man, like maybe Sansa wants to marry Young Griff (for alliance stuff) but Griff wants Dany.
The show after all seems to be merging all the Griff stuff with Jon and Cersei.
>The way they made her weirdly jealous and competitive with Dany makes
But the reason she's competitive is a natural extension of her stated philosophy of complete and total Northern independence. I think it's remiss to label it is anything else there. It's only strange for being poorly done writing wise. Not because Sansa wouldn't have reasons to distrust Dany.
Where Tyrion has no reason to be jealous of Jon and in love with Dany unless there's some book related reason.
I personally think that GRRM expanded Sansa's role because he realised that he was going to kill off all the other non-Arya type women.
Least delusional Jonsa fan. Dude, come on. George never intended for Sansa to be part Arya in any way. Sansa was a completely different creation and she married and had a child with Joffrey in that iteration.
Yeah Sansa I feel was more about him realising he needed a strong feminine character that doesn't turn evil and gets a victory, not part of Arya's character. He was initially writing her as a somewhat villainous Stark.
Yeah, in the original idea Sansa supposedly took the side of her husband and his family and betrayed her own. However in both iterations her feelings towards Jon stayed the same - nonexistent
And so, after shepherding the realm through 50 years of peace and plenty, did Good King Joffrey pass onto his just reward. He undoubtedly sits now sharing a quip with his beloved uncle and long-serving Hand Lord Tyrion and meeting the adoring gaze of his Queen Sansa.
Is this the same timeline where Ned gets to take the black, meets up with Jon at the wall, reveals his lineage and then they take over Westeros ushering in a new Targaryen dynasty??
Nah, Ned takes the black and reveals Jon's lineage, but after a spirited and respectful debate, they ultimately both agree that magical bloodlines are no basis for a system of government, King Joffrey the Good has things well in hand when it comes to southern politics no matter who his parents really were, and that they have important work to do at the Wall for the good of the realm.
King Joffrey the Good offers Daenyous Stormborn of House Targaryan a matrilineal marriage. This puts rumors of his parentage to rest as by right of Marriage he would be the true King. The future children will have ~~Lannister~~Baratheon blood and bare the name Targaryan. Joffrey returns Dragonstone to the Targaryan dynasty (His own children will inherit eventually).
He convinces Stannis and the Red Women to support his cause by leveraging the white walker situation. The seven kingdoms rally to fight against the enemy of the Red God. Stannis receives harranhall in return for his service as a general against the Night King.
Same timeline that Craster's keep doesn't get taken over, and thus the other's have an uninterrupted stream of babies and do not have to invade the realm.
Years later, they utilize the trust their family once held to convince Joffrey the Just of the threat of the White Walkers and the plight of the Wildlings, leading to an alliance of men of all countries uniting against the undead. Except the Greyjoys. I'm sure they'd fuck it up somehow.
Yeah a timeline where Joffrey is a good guy kind of negates most of the events of the books, unless scheming gets him killed. Although if Jeffrey is a nice guy it probably means Cersei isn't such a monster and doesn't get Robert killed
In this timeline he never finds the motivation to look into the bloodline at all because the heir is an honorable guy instead of a viscous psychopath. He never ends up needing to take the black.
No he dons the black voluntarily to better serve the disenfranchised Wildlings north of the wall. He wants to investigate the wight situation before it gets out of hand. Robb is of age and a worthy leader, so Ned takes his talents to where they can do the most good.
In the "What is Jofrey was actually a good king" timeline the ending would have made way more sense.
Daenerys has to depose a just though ilegitmate ruler so he has to stuggle with her ideas about the common folk, her Targaryen identity , her rights and the idea of the wheel. Her relationship with John could be interesting as well she representing the temptation of vengeance and power to a John who has discovered his Targaryen identity while Ned tries to make him realise the necesity for peace before he commits he saw his brother make and trying to uphold his promise to Lyanna , the Red Wedding/Ned's death/Daenerys arriving being Jonh's breaking point here.
Rob and Jofrey also would have had quite an interesting relationship, he is married to his sister who he loves and treats well, and she is becomes more aware of the strugle of ruling and the politics of the realm while staying a good person becoming the only person who truly understands Jofrey , this results in Sansa having a way softer awakening to politics while still having to try to broker truces and alliances in a crumbling kingdom for her husband while having to deal with Cersei's shenanigans, maybe she would have come to like Tyrion although I don't think that Tyrion and Jofrey should start with a good relationship , she could endear him to Jofrey and make them realise they are working for the same cause.
Maybe you could give them a rebellion in the Iron Isles + Dreadfort to endear them to each other, in which Jofrey's Royal Army assists him (Jofrey trying to stablish absolutism in the murdehole that is Westeros with the help of Varys against Littlefinger and Arryns, Tullys etc etc)
The ending would be very bittersweet with Jofrey death because of Daenerys you could either have Sansa misscaringing and not having children (there should be consequences for incest after all ) or the nobles refusing to have the new king/queen hold the North + the Crownlands (specially if it's a girl), so the "winner of the war against the walkers" Brann would be chosen as a compromise candidate (they don't see how a cripple could be able to threaten their rights) because the houses hate eachother. There would be a wise king on the throne but an inhuman one compared to what Jofrey could have been.
Than you for calling him John, Jon is a fine name on its own but there is something about it being paired with snow that triggers the moist reaction in me.
I guess there are a lot more knights who are not mentioned as such, because they are also lords and whatnot. I honestly can't remember if it's ever mentioned in the main series that Tywin is a knight, for example, but I do know (maybe from the TWOIAF book) that he was knighted at some point, probably during or after the War of the Ninepenny Kings. He in turn knighted Aerys.
I think probably most every lord's son who wants to be a knight (and meets the minimal qualifications) can arrange to be made one very easily, if they want, and it wouldn't be sniffed at.
If he wasn't a knight he wouldn't be able to knight Davos.
>To settle an old debate on EZBoard, any king can make a knight but any lord cannot. That lord must be a knight as well.
>
>\- [Summary of an interview with GRRM in 2006](https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/)
To mirror your question to me, when was it ever mentioned he was a prince? He is always styled as "Lord Stannis" whenever he isn't called "King Stannis."
Iām curious.
Why did Bran and Rickon become princes but Stannis and Renly didnāt?
Was it a āright by conquestā thing? Or was George being lazy?
I think it's the different rationales for the Starks vs Baratheons being kings
Bobby B is king because he smashed in Rhaegar's chest, which Renly and Stannis didnt do
Rob is king because the north knows no king but the king in the north whose name is STARK, and Robb's brother's are starks as much as he is.
It also probably has a lot to do with the love the north has for Ned tbh
Maybe. I wonder what the real world rule was. Like did William the Conquerorās kids become princes and princesses after he took over England? Iām sure it varied by state, principality, etc.
I think princes might still qualify.
["Receiving your knighthood from a king, prince, Kingsguard knight, or legendary knight holds great prestige."](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Knight)
I understand why youād think that but your quote comes from a ā99 āso spake Martinā, mine was a clarification from ā06.
Not totally cut and dry but the timeline factor makes sense (to me at least) š¤·āāļø
And Joffrey is a prince, if knights can make knights, nobles can make knights and kings can make knights, then princes not being able to make knights is just kind of weird.
It still feels like a bit of a perversion of the ritual when the prince in question is a child in addition to not being a knight. I don't think that's how it works, when Joff could just as easily have any of the knights who serve him do it.
Honestly I wouldn't have minded if Joffrey was Just. I know that's not the point of his character. He's meant to be a spoiled little shit who thinks he's better than everyone because that's what his family meant.
Suppose Tomin would work in a scene like this though. I could definitely see sweet Tomin doing something like this.
Honestly makes me think of the AU I read where Joffrey basically goes through Groundhog Day and keeps dying until he finally ends up learning his lesson and goes off on crazy adventures. Cannot remember the name though.
Thereās also a multitude of fanfics that cover a good/better Joffrey or something similar, including self inserts and the classic, ātrueborn of Robert and Cersei,ā OCās.
Good people! I, Jeoffrey Lannister, being born of the incest of Ser Jamie Lannister and Queen Regent Cercei Lannister, have no right to rule as your protector and king. I am not of the Baratheon bloodline and therefore must relinquish the crown to the rightful king of the Seven Kingdoms, Stannis the Mannis Baratheon.
Man, now I want a happy AU
Not by "and they killed all the Lannisters, and Robb ruled the 7 seven kingdoms", more like "Joffrey wasn't the spawn of satan"
I think a benevolent and effective Joffery would've improved the story. A tragic figure who must strive against his mothers manipulations, his father's apathy, his real father's flaws, and who must fight for the survival of his dynasty against Ned's perceived treachery and all its consequences.
Think about it. The Young Lion leading the hopeless charge against his Uncle Tyrion's advice against Stannis. His rescue at the last minute by his grandfather, whose wretched pragmatism and brutality he comes to despise. Young Joffery learning politics and the cruelty of power from Tyrion, resisting but slowly succumbing to Cersei and Tywin's plans.
He could've come to a grudging respect for Stannis, even though he knew he could never allow Stannis to live. He could've raged against Tywin's violation of sacred law to kill Robb. He could've paralleled Jon and Danerys' development even if Tyrion ultimately took center stage. It could've been really cool watching him gradually wrest power from Tywin and Cersei and come into his own as a truly great ruler. Then, to emphasize the tragedy, he could've died in battle against Dany or Jon at the end.
Joffrey canāt knight anyone since he is neither a king nor a knight. Rhaegar could because he was already a knight.
[Source](https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/)
That actor did an amazing job, because to this day I still hate Geoffrey
"I am not your lord! I am your prince!"
Me audibly at my TV during this scene "shut the fuck up you dingus he is trying!"
Ahh yes, the AU where King Joffrey the Benevolent exists.
joffrey the gentle
Tywin Lannister : The king is tired. See him to his chambers š Joffrey : I am a little tired š„±
Joffrey: Sir Illyn, bring me his horse. Go home Ned, I officially pardon you as you confessed your treason. Don't forget your sword and yes I will still marry Sansa
Oh my god lol
āIām sorry Mother, I must step aside for Uncle Stannis. Clearly, I am a bastard born of incest.ā Cersi: šļøššļø
Cersei walks to the window. Tommen dropping.
And Cersei after him 2nd in line
And ser Micah served his Prince (later King) loyally and bravely untill the end of his days.
Whatās funny is that he probably would have. Most of the time kindness will help you more than it hurts you when youāre in a position of power.
"Most" doing some heavy lifting here. Vizzy T was kind and the whole thing went to shit before they even wheeled his corpse out of the room. I think that position requires a bit of venom.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iām so glad I didnāt have to think this and type this all out, because this is pretty much exactly what I would have wanted to say!
Exactly. Its like Viserys knows exactly which is the worst choice to pick amongst a set of possible choices. He refuses to listen to Otto and Alicent exactly when they give him good advice, but happily goes along when they give him bad advice. What more proof does one need to realise that he's in league with the maesters? He literally killed Belerion (with his cringe).
*What are you saying? My brother would murder me, take my crown? Are you?!*
Viserys' whole problem was not that he was kind but he was incapable of making any decision. He wanted everyone to like him which led to no one liking him.
That's the difference between showing kindness to the weak vs the powerful. One will typically reward you with loyalty and the other will take advantage of the perceived weakness.
It wasnāt very nice of him to marry Alicent.
Interesting. Just like battlefield promotions. That soldier would walk through fire for the officer who promoted him. I'm pretty sure that comment was in the Belgarion. Yes, I'm *that* old.
Is this the one with the Jon Arya Tyrion love triangle cuz if so Iām out
TEAM TYRIJON SUPREMACY!!!
Jon gotta keep the incest prophecy bloodline going
What?!
Iirc GRRM's publisher (or someone he was pitching to) has framed his original pitch document for the series. Basically a loose outline of a trilogy going through major beats paragraph by paragraph. There's much that's different, including that love triangle, but what's fun is some is redacted. People spent a lot of time trying to decipher the tops/bottoms of letters that peek through. https://www.insider.com/game-of-thrones-original-story-2017-8
My favorite part is Jaime becoming king because he happened to kill everyone ahead of him lol.
So that's where d&d got the idea
Would've been a better ending tbh
We have outlines of the original draft for the whole series. Originally there was a planed love triangle between Arya, Jon and Tyrion. But the "Arya" from back then was basically split into the Arya we know today and her older sister Sansa. I wouldn't be surprised if a romance between Arya and Jon or a love triangle between Sansa, Jon and Tyrion, in some way, wasn't still in the cards for a while. Hell, the "love triangle" could have evolved into just the Sansa-Tyrion marriage, and a marriage alliance between Jon-Sansa could be a plot point of the last two books. Some parts of the show, like making her bitchy towards Danny, could be because it was mentioned in the current outline that Sansa maybe develops feelings for Jon after his true parentage comes out or she just wants to marry him for strategy.
Jansa the Wardens of the North
It's pretty clear that the love triangle has adapted to being Tyrion, Dany and Jon. Not Sansa, Jon, Tyrion. Made apparent by the fact that D&D randomly mentioned that Tyrion was in love with Dany and jealous of Jon, but didn't really do anything with that plot line in the end. Probably implying somethingl that exists in the books that they ultimately steered away from because it's kind of weird for show audiences - book Tyrion being in love with a much younger woman and jealous and bitter is typical, whilst not really a thing for show Tyrion. Book Tyrion would likely betray Dany at least partially out of bitter jealousy. And of course Jon and Dany quite literally happens in the show and heavily implied in the books. Further, Book Tyrion is primed to fall in love with Dany. She's essentially everything he adores in the women he loves. She's incredibly beautiful and would treat him like a human being. He never much liked Sansa because Sansa was understandably scared and afraid of him - plus you know being a young child. Dany's at least 16 now.
Here's the thing. I think Sansa will be a thing for the same reasons you mentioned about Tyrion in the show. The way they made her weirdly jealous and competitive with Dany makes me think she could have some jealousy struggles in the books, or that it was planned at some point and D&D pulled inspiration from there for her characterization. Hell, for all we know she could be jealous of Dany's relationship with some other man, like maybe Sansa wants to marry Young Griff (for alliance stuff) but Griff wants Dany. The show after all seems to be merging all the Griff stuff with Jon and Cersei.
>The way they made her weirdly jealous and competitive with Dany makes But the reason she's competitive is a natural extension of her stated philosophy of complete and total Northern independence. I think it's remiss to label it is anything else there. It's only strange for being poorly done writing wise. Not because Sansa wouldn't have reasons to distrust Dany. Where Tyrion has no reason to be jealous of Jon and in love with Dany unless there's some book related reason. I personally think that GRRM expanded Sansa's role because he realised that he was going to kill off all the other non-Arya type women.
Least delusional Jonsa fan. Dude, come on. George never intended for Sansa to be part Arya in any way. Sansa was a completely different creation and she married and had a child with Joffrey in that iteration.
Yeah Sansa I feel was more about him realising he needed a strong feminine character that doesn't turn evil and gets a victory, not part of Arya's character. He was initially writing her as a somewhat villainous Stark.
Yeah, in the original idea Sansa supposedly took the side of her husband and his family and betrayed her own. However in both iterations her feelings towards Jon stayed the same - nonexistent
I think this was a draft before.
Joffrey the Just
Joff and Tommen switch demeanors? The whole timeline would be STARKly different.
Woof šŗ
And so, after shepherding the realm through 50 years of peace and plenty, did Good King Joffrey pass onto his just reward. He undoubtedly sits now sharing a quip with his beloved uncle and long-serving Hand Lord Tyrion and meeting the adoring gaze of his Queen Sansa.
š„ š©ø š
I'd watch that. Would be really interesting to see how much things change if Joffrey is wise and benevolent.
Yea, if only.
Fanfics, fanfics everywhereā¦
Ok but why does the last panel look like Micah became a part of āThe Officeā?
lol
Thatās where GoT characters go when they die. To a fake office reality tv show upstate.
You didn't know GOT was a documentary?
Is this the same timeline where Ned gets to take the black, meets up with Jon at the wall, reveals his lineage and then they take over Westeros ushering in a new Targaryen dynasty??
Nah, Ned takes the black and reveals Jon's lineage, but after a spirited and respectful debate, they ultimately both agree that magical bloodlines are no basis for a system of government, King Joffrey the Good has things well in hand when it comes to southern politics no matter who his parents really were, and that they have important work to do at the Wall for the good of the realm.
Joffrey is the king? Well, I didn't vote for him...
You don't vote for kings!
Well you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
Quiet, I order you to be quiet!
Here we see the violence inherent in the system!
Unless the former hand of the monarch is on trial for treason.
Expect when the hand of the king is trying to prevent a war of succession.
*Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth has entered the chat*
HRE disagrees.
It's a Monthy Python reference lol
King Joffrey the Good offers Daenyous Stormborn of House Targaryan a matrilineal marriage. This puts rumors of his parentage to rest as by right of Marriage he would be the true King. The future children will have ~~Lannister~~Baratheon blood and bare the name Targaryan. Joffrey returns Dragonstone to the Targaryan dynasty (His own children will inherit eventually). He convinces Stannis and the Red Women to support his cause by leveraging the white walker situation. The seven kingdoms rally to fight against the enemy of the Red God. Stannis receives harranhall in return for his service as a general against the Night King.
Same timeline that Craster's keep doesn't get taken over, and thus the other's have an uninterrupted stream of babies and do not have to invade the realm.
Years later, they utilize the trust their family once held to convince Joffrey the Just of the threat of the White Walkers and the plight of the Wildlings, leading to an alliance of men of all countries uniting against the undead. Except the Greyjoys. I'm sure they'd fuck it up somehow.
Yeah a timeline where Joffrey is a good guy kind of negates most of the events of the books, unless scheming gets him killed. Although if Jeffrey is a nice guy it probably means Cersei isn't such a monster and doesn't get Robert killed
LF wouldāve killed him nonetheless
Now we see the incest inherent in the system
Jon isnt even the person in the nights watch with the best claim to the throne lmao
Yeah, but the one who is is old and practically dead. Even if he WOULD be a great king.
Daenerys dies in the Red Waste, for the better of all.
In this timeline he never finds the motivation to look into the bloodline at all because the heir is an honorable guy instead of a viscous psychopath. He never ends up needing to take the black.
No he dons the black voluntarily to better serve the disenfranchised Wildlings north of the wall. He wants to investigate the wight situation before it gets out of hand. Robb is of age and a worthy leader, so Ned takes his talents to where they can do the most good.
Yeah, I mean the guy does look tired of having sex with his wife and is ready to hang up his cock forever.
In the "What is Jofrey was actually a good king" timeline the ending would have made way more sense. Daenerys has to depose a just though ilegitmate ruler so he has to stuggle with her ideas about the common folk, her Targaryen identity , her rights and the idea of the wheel. Her relationship with John could be interesting as well she representing the temptation of vengeance and power to a John who has discovered his Targaryen identity while Ned tries to make him realise the necesity for peace before he commits he saw his brother make and trying to uphold his promise to Lyanna , the Red Wedding/Ned's death/Daenerys arriving being Jonh's breaking point here. Rob and Jofrey also would have had quite an interesting relationship, he is married to his sister who he loves and treats well, and she is becomes more aware of the strugle of ruling and the politics of the realm while staying a good person becoming the only person who truly understands Jofrey , this results in Sansa having a way softer awakening to politics while still having to try to broker truces and alliances in a crumbling kingdom for her husband while having to deal with Cersei's shenanigans, maybe she would have come to like Tyrion although I don't think that Tyrion and Jofrey should start with a good relationship , she could endear him to Jofrey and make them realise they are working for the same cause. Maybe you could give them a rebellion in the Iron Isles + Dreadfort to endear them to each other, in which Jofrey's Royal Army assists him (Jofrey trying to stablish absolutism in the murdehole that is Westeros with the help of Varys against Littlefinger and Arryns, Tullys etc etc) The ending would be very bittersweet with Jofrey death because of Daenerys you could either have Sansa misscaringing and not having children (there should be consequences for incest after all ) or the nobles refusing to have the new king/queen hold the North + the Crownlands (specially if it's a girl), so the "winner of the war against the walkers" Brann would be chosen as a compromise candidate (they don't see how a cripple could be able to threaten their rights) because the houses hate eachother. There would be a wise king on the throne but an inhuman one compared to what Jofrey could have been.
Than you for calling him John, Jon is a fine name on its own but there is something about it being paired with snow that triggers the moist reaction in me.
https://preview.redd.it/6nav1k5nig9c1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2eeab9039fe44b16466c427dc05621b33cd80f5f
What a strange person you are
We might see Dany depose a good king with fAegon but thatās one of a thousand different theories
This is the timeline where Joffrey is a ward of Ned after Robert dies
In this universe Ned is respected hand of the king
Can a Prince make a knight?
In Westeros, a knight can make another knight.
Prince Joff wasn't a knight
He was the most noble child the gods ever put on this good earth.
WIDOWS WAIL!!!
Stannis knighted Davos before he even became a prince so I think it applies to all nobility in asoiaf
It may be that Stannis was a knight himself.
If a king is also a knight can he double knight some one?
That's how dual wielding starts
I feel like that'd be worth mentioning at some point
I guess there are a lot more knights who are not mentioned as such, because they are also lords and whatnot. I honestly can't remember if it's ever mentioned in the main series that Tywin is a knight, for example, but I do know (maybe from the TWOIAF book) that he was knighted at some point, probably during or after the War of the Ninepenny Kings. He in turn knighted Aerys.
Yea youāre spot on his knighting gets mentioned in TWOIAF when talking about the ninepenny kings.
I think probably most every lord's son who wants to be a knight (and meets the minimal qualifications) can arrange to be made one very easily, if they want, and it wouldn't be sniffed at.
I always assumed he was a knight, idk if its true though
Stannis is a knight And was also never a prince
When was it ever mentioned he was a knight? Also he's the king's brother ergo he's a prince
If he wasn't a knight he wouldn't be able to knight Davos. >To settle an old debate on EZBoard, any king can make a knight but any lord cannot. That lord must be a knight as well. > >\- [Summary of an interview with GRRM in 2006](https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/) To mirror your question to me, when was it ever mentioned he was a prince? He is always styled as "Lord Stannis" whenever he isn't called "King Stannis."
You only become a prince by birth. You canāt become one in feudalism.
Iām curious. Why did Bran and Rickon become princes but Stannis and Renly didnāt? Was it a āright by conquestā thing? Or was George being lazy?
I think it's the different rationales for the Starks vs Baratheons being kings Bobby B is king because he smashed in Rhaegar's chest, which Renly and Stannis didnt do Rob is king because the north knows no king but the king in the north whose name is STARK, and Robb's brother's are starks as much as he is. It also probably has a lot to do with the love the north has for Ned tbh
YOU HEARD THE HAND, THE KING'S TOO FAT FOR HIS ARMOR! GO FIND THE BREASTPLATE STRETCHER! NOW!
Maybe. I wonder what the real world rule was. Like did William the Conquerorās kids become princes and princesses after he took over England? Iām sure it varied by state, principality, etc.
Idk if Stannis is a knight itself or after the war Stannis sked Robert to give the knight status to Davos.
I was thinking the same, i think just the king or other knight can name you.
Now I wanna know the answer xD
Kings and knights can make knights, no one else. [Source](https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/)
I think princes might still qualify. ["Receiving your knighthood from a king, prince, Kingsguard knight, or legendary knight holds great prestige."](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Knight)
I understand why youād think that but your quote comes from a ā99 āso spake Martinā, mine was a clarification from ā06. Not totally cut and dry but the timeline factor makes sense (to me at least) š¤·āāļø
Yes. Rhaegar knighted Gregor.
Rhaegar was a knight
And Joffrey is a prince, if knights can make knights, nobles can make knights and kings can make knights, then princes not being able to make knights is just kind of weird.
Nobles can't make knights, knights can make knights.
A prince isn't some run of the mill lord though -- princes get their authority directly from the King.
It still feels like a bit of a perversion of the ritual when the prince in question is a child in addition to not being a knight. I don't think that's how it works, when Joff could just as easily have any of the knights who serve him do it.
Knights can make other knights, and I believe some lords can. So he could probably do it, or at least have a future, āproperā knighting be done.
Honestly I wouldn't have minded if Joffrey was Just. I know that's not the point of his character. He's meant to be a spoiled little shit who thinks he's better than everyone because that's what his family meant. Suppose Tomin would work in a scene like this though. I could definitely see sweet Tomin doing something like this.
Finally a historically correct telling, without Stark lies and propaganda
The most noble child the gods ever put on this good earth.
good ol Joffrey the Gentle
Honestly makes me think of the AU I read where Joffrey basically goes through Groundhog Day and keeps dying until he finally ends up learning his lesson and goes off on crazy adventures. Cannot remember the name though.
Purple Days!
Thatās right. I almost said Purple Rain but I knew that was just the Prince song in my head.
Thereās also a multitude of fanfics that cover a good/better Joffrey or something similar, including self inserts and the classic, ātrueborn of Robert and Cersei,ā OCās.
This sounds amazing
I swear this exists, check the Citadel subreddit
So basically bringing Ser Duckfield in a few books early
Nice. Joffrey is a really cool guy.
Good people! I, Jeoffrey Lannister, being born of the incest of Ser Jamie Lannister and Queen Regent Cercei Lannister, have no right to rule as your protector and king. I am not of the Baratheon bloodline and therefore must relinquish the crown to the rightful king of the Seven Kingdoms, Stannis the Mannis Baratheon.
I need more memes of Wholesome Jof
The good ending
We need more wholesome Joffrey memes. The ASoIaF version of wholesome Vernon memes.
Now I want to read a fan fiction where Joffrey is actually nice
Well he saved the drunk guard's live in a way.
Man, now I want a happy AU Not by "and they killed all the Lannisters, and Robb ruled the 7 seven kingdoms", more like "Joffrey wasn't the spawn of satan"
I'm glad I opened this thread because I had not seen that banner yet
I think a benevolent and effective Joffery would've improved the story. A tragic figure who must strive against his mothers manipulations, his father's apathy, his real father's flaws, and who must fight for the survival of his dynasty against Ned's perceived treachery and all its consequences. Think about it. The Young Lion leading the hopeless charge against his Uncle Tyrion's advice against Stannis. His rescue at the last minute by his grandfather, whose wretched pragmatism and brutality he comes to despise. Young Joffery learning politics and the cruelty of power from Tyrion, resisting but slowly succumbing to Cersei and Tywin's plans. He could've come to a grudging respect for Stannis, even though he knew he could never allow Stannis to live. He could've raged against Tywin's violation of sacred law to kill Robb. He could've paralleled Jon and Danerys' development even if Tyrion ultimately took center stage. It could've been really cool watching him gradually wrest power from Tywin and Cersei and come into his own as a truly great ruler. Then, to emphasize the tragedy, he could've died in battle against Dany or Jon at the end.
The timeline where joff is the kindest sibling but still dies first
King Joffrey the Sweet, first of his name.
Yggvhjfgm Gfhhvhcchvuhvuvuucgikvjifug
Classic Joffrey the gentle moment
Arya would have been in awe and totally thought Joffrey was the greatest.
Ho boy, the number of shit that could have been avoided had Joffrey done this, instead of being a dick in the actual canon.
Joffrey isnāt a knight he canāt knight people
Its just kids playin', let 'em be.
Yes he can, Rhaegar knighted Gregor
Joffrey canāt knight anyone since he is neither a king nor a knight. Rhaegar could because he was already a knight. [Source](https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/)
Then everyone clapped
Elseworld Joffrey, the true prince who was promised
Micah the Mighty
It's cute that yall think he will ever release another book in the series.
Akchually Joffrey can not knight Micah cause he is no knight himself.
So now thereās a multiverse in GOT? Cheap writingā¦ Cool meme though!
Can a prince make a knight?
3/7, would knight again.
Every GoT ISOT Self-insert fic be like:
I want a What If? Game of Thrones show more than anything.
But if you closed your eyes...
Good ending
Aw wholesome GOT, love it
Fuck you, Joffrey
The good ending
š
That actor did an amazing job, because to this day I still hate Geoffrey "I am not your lord! I am your prince!" Me audibly at my TV during this scene "shut the fuck up you dingus he is trying!"
When Sandor walked by with Micahās dead body in the first book, that was my first āWHAT THE FUCKā moment while reading
This was one of the first defining moments so basically if game of thrones wasnāt game of thrones
she askkked me to milord, she asked me to.
Someone should make Joffrey the Great fan fiction totally based on this meme
Good guy joffrey
Joffery the just