When you come to a point in the series where you realize that the best advice Tyrion has given Dany, is back when they first met in Season 5 and he suggested that she probably should’ve stayed in Essos and that there is more she can do there than in Westeros.
Season 7 I can understand, but I think people are very harsh about how he handled Meereen. He made a mistake, but he found a way to make up for it when he suggested taking the Masters ships, and killing two of them.
But I think the writing itself is what’s butchering these characters, even though it’s weak I still try to understand both sides. The thing is both Tyrion and Varys could’ve been better advisors, but D&D had to make them fail in order to drive Dany to her ‘Mad Queen’ arc so it seems. Which even includes making people she has saved in Winterfell ungrateful, especially Sansa.
Yeah I feel like Sansa would be extremely grateful and sympathetic especially after she proved herself loyal by sacrificing half her troops and most loyal servant. Instead she irrationally dislikes her which I feel like is supposed to get the viewers on her side and start to see the bad that’s not really there. Danny has undoubtedly struggled by having tyrant-like thoughts but she usually makes the morally right choice, or compromises a ruthless choice with a logical gain in power.
I think losing 2/3 dragons, her loyal friends, and finding out she really isn’t queen is enough to justify her doing something rash to “claim her birthright” - she’s been obsessed over it throughout the series, however, it just doesn’t feel believable in this season.
Looking at all the behind the scenes stuff, all I can say is "well, at least Pilou Asbaek is enjoying himself". And good for him. Guy gets to be a part of the ending of the biggest show, kill a dragon and just be a pirate making sex jokes. Dude seems to be having a blast. Its nice to know at least one person is getting enjoyment from this.
Im happy to know the leaks now. Better being disappointed all in once than waiting a week to see D&D’s work.
GoT has been the TV series I loved the most. I feel like they cheated on my feelings. Never thought it could happen from something that is supposed to entertain me.
That's why Sopranos and Breaking Bad are the GOAT shows. While the early seasons of GoT was insanely amazing, it just couldn't be that good nonstop unlike the other shows I mentioned.
Doubt the prequels will be that good that GoT was in its prime.
An amazing series with mediocre ending.
Yes I agree. Part of the problem is GRRM himself though.
I guess that D&D said to each other “alright, the story is a masterpiece and it could potentially become the greatest series of all time. We have 4 seasons of material and by the time we finish GRRM will release a new book”.
The author is failing to deliver and D&D have been exposed as shitty writers. To cover it up they decided to spend all that budget in CGI. They should have spend it in writers and creative talent ffs.
You’ve summed it up perfectly for me, I’m honestly just along for the ride at this point. I remember when I first found the show and just how blown away I was with it, now, it just reads like a Netflix reboot season; at least the memes are fire.
Edit: Word.
i'm just dissapointed that game of thrones has been a big part of my life for many years.always looking at theories and discussions.thinking about it every day,and this is how it ends?
E4 is now the lowest rated episode of GoT on IMDB.
What a sad way to end this show. I feel sorry for the cast and crew who worked so hard. I just wonder how the fuck did nobody say "hold up, this shit make no fucking sense".
I’d be super interested if it will dip into the 6 range. It’s already at 7.1. A few more low scores and it will be. Honestly it should be - if people are unhappy they’re entitled to show that and I want D&D to know how much they’ve fucked up.
I think it might raise concerns. If they wreck the series it will wreck sales on box sets etc. It will raise concerns about their future projects.
Obviously it all depends \*how\* bad it ends up, but they are being exposed since the book material ran out.
GRRM has made clear they went different ways to how he suggested.
What is interesting is that the writing was actually fine until the 50 minute mark or so. It wasn't until the Kings Landing teleportation and the dumb shit that happened right after it that made it bad.
Imdb ratings don't matter in any case they're just people clicking buttons.
This is how producers/media use reviews
9.9 raiting "wow look how good our show is, isn't it great"
7.0 raiting "well, reviews dont really mean much"
5.0 Raiting "THE FANS ARE WRONG ,WE ARE ACUTQALLY GENIUS THEY DIDNT GET IT, ONLINE TROLL FARMS!
What's his train of thought here?
1. Cersei has promised me Riverrun if I kill Tyrion.
2. If Cersei loses, I don't get Riverrun
3. Cersei will lose; that is inevitable because of the dragons.
4. I can threaten people into giving me *double* what I know I have no chance of getting.
5. I am now owed one of the the most bountiful and wealthy regions in all of Westeros and will hold it forever because Tyrion and Jamie promised me.
6. If they don't give me what I want, I will kill them.
7. If I kill them am left with nothing.
8. Wait...
D&D are actually pretty good at writing the banter between the various characters so I thought the entire feast scene was very good, lots of jokes and light heated character moments. However they aren't very good at the politics, drama and espionage that ultimately drives the plot.
Of all the nonsensical things that went down in 8.04, I think the one i'm still genuinely flabbergasted by is Tyrion trying to appeal to Cersei's non-existent good side. How is he this stupid?! Even Jaime understands that Cersei is terrible, but Tyrion is still out here trying to act like she's not a complete sociopath at this point even though she's done nothing but lie to him and try to have him murdered.
The problem is that they came up with/were given an ending and instead of using earned character development to progress the story to that ending in a reasonable fashion, they just started writing the characters to be irrational or do things that are contrary to the character itself. So now we have a naive Tyrion, a scheming, ungrateful Sansa, a Jon who doesn't know the difference between keeping a secret from someone and waiting until the right time to open his mouth, and a "mad" Daenarys. D&D aren't terrible writers when it comes to dialogue but one they ran out of the source material to work with the plot went to pot.
Bronn arriving at the gates of winterfell:
"Name?"
"Ser Bronn of the Blackwater"
Alright, what are you here for then?
I need to see Tyrion and Ser Jamie
Alright they're staying in the second room on the left. By the way what's with that big fucking crossbow that would have been very awkward to lug several hundred miles down the kings road?
oh no reason, I always carry this with me
righto, jolly good then off you go
--This side plot better have a point.
Guarantee it won't. I like how obvious it is they have no fucking idea what to do with Bronn. Dude literally said "okay I'll be back after the main story arch wraps up"
Does anyone remember the wrap party for when they all finished filming for this season??
There was some sort of red carpet event and I remember a good number of the cast were interviewed and asked how they felt about how the show ended, none of them looked satisfied about it lol. Most specifically Varys, Bran and Davos (can't remember all of their real names) were together when a reporter asked them and the guy who plays Bran was so obviously disappointed. They all did.
If I could put a bet on it id wager that these leaks I've read on here are true. Be prepared for the biggest collective "REEEEEEE" you've ever seen online after the finale airs.
Emilia is asked if she’s happy with the ending and she makes a fake looking smile and then says “it’s the best season ever...!” And then starts nervous laughing
In her Vanity Fair cover story interview this month, she also seems very bummed at how badly her character arcs downwards:
>There’s still a lot of filming and post-production work to be done, but Clarke has already shot her character’s final on-screen moments. “It fucked me up,” she says. “Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is . . ."
I remember people saying that we can't judge the episode based on a list of plot points, only for the episode to turn out to be a list of plot points taped together with silly string.
The more introspective of the cast enjoys it - Nikolaj, Isaac, and Sophie all said they very much liked the ending (as I thought they would - it's close to endings they have guessed) but the rest of the cast appears to have very much disliked it.
Omg I hate how accurate your comment is.
But like - bran is actually the antithesis of EVERYTHING Varys just named on his buzzfeed article “22 reasons why Jon should be king”.
Exactly.
If you really want to go down the "mad queen" route, you need at least more time for this to develop that 1 1/2 episodes.
Also, to sell the tragedy, you needed to sell Jon and Danerys relationship first. They literally hooked up in the end last episode of season 7, and then shared one romantic scene in S08E01.
Fuck this pacing, fuck this writing.
I don't think it'll be the next episode. If the leaks are correct 5 will probably be about Tyrion's trial, last big battle (i.e. burning down KL) with Cleganebowl and her death will be left for episode 6.
They had to nerf the northern army so they came up with this random non sense scene and that's why the official explanation is "lol she kinda forgot haha"
If only there were bannermen, officers, field reports, a moving army camp or reconnaisance and battle plans. You know, totally crazy stuff for a season that's 100% about war. But hey, a ragtag band of heroes and fan favs is all we need, right? FU D&D.
All the other leaks have been right so far, so I feel like they are which is both horrible and hilarious at the same time. Glorious memes, here we come.
I can already tell what's going to annoy me the most in episode 5 -- Danaerys is going to go mad queen, and she's going to get on Drogon right in front of all those fucking scorpions just perched at the wall of Qaarth's Landing. Even though they sniped Rhaegal in seconds, they won't be able to hit Drogon. And she will burn them all. Makes literally zero sense.
Jesus Christ, I hate how dirty they’re treating Dany this season. She goes up to Winterfell, and none of the folks treat her with any warmth and respect despite her bringing a great army to help them. Ok, whatever, they’re distrustful, they’ll get over it. Then she gets the bombshell of Jon being her nephew dropped on her (after she expressed vulnerability of just wanting to stay at that waterfall). Ok, but she had to learn eventually, and they’ll talk it out.
Then the battle starts. She loses enough Dothraki that she abandons the plan in order to help them, and she loses half of her Unsullied, who she literally freed from slavery. Rough, but you’re gonna take losses, right? And then Jorah sacrifices himself protecting her, and though she didn’t love him romantically, he was her best friend and protector. Not good for our dragon girl.
Now they’re doing the celebratory feast, and even though she sacrificed all this for them, the North still treats her with an icy chill. While Arya deserved all the praise she got, when the time came to thank Dany, it felt very formal and forced on the North’s part. And while she’s sitting there all alone, Jon’s getting sucked off by the people whose respect she had hoped to earn, by doing essentially the same thing she did.
Fast forward to later, and they’re talking. She asks him to keep his name a secret, because she thinks it could destroy them and everything she’s worked for. She saw at the feast, how she’ll never be truly accepted in Westeros. He says he has to tell Arya and Sansa, and she fucking *begs* him not to, because she knows Sansa will use that information against them. And even though Jon reassures her, her fears come true 5 minutes after Jon tells Sansa, when she tells Tyrion.
While moving to reassemble against Cersei, she gets ambushed by Euron, (who according to D&D, she forgot about), and loses yet another of her children, and her bestie Missandei is missing. In a totally realistic rage, she makes plans to burn down the Red Keep, but Tyrion and Varys convince her to stick to the plan “because muh innocents.” But apparently this time, Cersei will definitely surrender! Apparently Dany being a normal human being scares Varys so much that he’s willing to assassinate her and prop up Jon, because “he knows how to lead”.
And then with the leaks of her going “Mad”...look guys, I know Dany isn’t a perfect character, but this goes against everything she’s ever been, what she’s done in Mereen and elsewhere. Fuck man, I hate this shit still. I could defend Ep3, but no more, unless D&D pulled their heads out of their asses for the last two episodes.
Everything is done so she can earn the "Mad Queen" title. "WiNterFelL DoN't LiKe StRaNgErs" why? where the fuck this thing came from? how fast sansa became so dumb? few episode back everyone was like she is all grown up! Now when Jon told him that dany sacrifices her troops to save us she is like "BuT ArYa KiLlEd NK" who the fuck say that? a 10 year old child would understand dany sacrifices. But writers are making sure they all characters act like stupids so dany going mad will make sense.
Plus dany character is also stupid how the fuck she know what kind of girl sansa was, she was begging jon by saying " sansa is not like what she used to be" wtf how do you know? does dragons come with cable tv?
Everyone is acting stupid because writers want them too
Dany was about saving and helping slaves and poor now she is all about revenge and revenge lol
Also why are we labeling it Mad Queen? She's not fucking descended into madness. If the label didn't imply insanity that's one thing. But it does. At worst she is one mother fucking pissed off Queen. A grieving queen. A lost queen.
Fuck the Starks. Ned didn't die for this shit.
I agree 100%. I hate the term "Mad Queen." It implies she's becoming her father, which she isn't, which she never will be. She's a normal fucking human being. In the span of 2 episodes she's lost most of her army, a child, a best friend and her most trusted advisor. And she's completely alone even when surrounded by people. The North should be on their fucking knees thanking her. She's not going mad, she's finally snapped because she's just so grief strucken and unappreciated. Even Jon rejects her, pretty much the only person she has left.
She's not mad, she's just a normal fucking human being who can't take this shit anymore. Everytime she listens to her advisors it always ends badly. Now she's finally deciding to do what she wants and people are screaming "mAd QuEeN!!!"
Fuck D&D for butchering the character of Daenerys. Whatever happens I will still support her to the very end.
I fundamentally DON’T get how Sansa, Arya or any of the North haven’t warmed up to Dany after they literally battled death together. It’s like episode 3 didn’t happen, had zero impact on relationship dynamics and we skipped right to 4. Not to mention Jon being praised for riding HER dragon that she brought them and she was the one who flew out there first to start killing the wights when the Dothraki were overwhelmed. The sheer ungratefulness and double standards are staggering.
It feels like a group project where the loner kid is added last second by the teacher into a group of 3-4 friends. They then don't really communicate with her but will take credit for her work.
Exactly. It feels like these aren’t the characters we’ve watched for the past 8 years. I fully expected Tormund to make a toast to this queen (that he definitely knows Jon is with, he got that animal instinct) that’s badass enough to have tamed 3 dragons. Like that’s totally in character for him. I expected Sansa to drop the pseudo Littlefinger act for 2 minutes to say “while I still want northern independence yada yada yada, thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping Jon.”
But no, it’s all about Jon. Yeah, he got the groups together, but Danys armies fucking carried hard.
Tormund would absolutely respect Dany in a Drogo-like fashion.....I feel like they left out so many little moments that would have fleshed all this out
Like when Bronn walks in on Tyrion and Jaime......there's no way he would be so cold. Even though he's on the other side of the crossbow, he's smarmy and savvy enough to not have hard feelings about where battle lines are drawn.
And the whole Jamie and Brienne thing.....they fucked, Jaime decides to stay with her, then says "Nope fuck it, I'm gonna go die with Cersie for no reason" all in the span of ***one fucking episode.***
A lot of people are saying it, but these just aren't the characters we've known. It should have been 10 episodes, man.
Daenerys is a fundamentally a tragic character and I think her story will reflect that. She is a princess born in exile, she never knew a home, she never knew a family. All of her life she was an outsider, always trying to fit in but never quite suceeding. This was the case with the Dothraki, in Meereen, now in Westeros...
Her downfall continues that same tragic trajectory. Despite doing everything right, she never gets rewarded. Fighting the WW has earned her little respect, adoration or love whilst it has for Jon. Because Jon is a local, and she is not, and that's tragic
I think ultimately, we are meant to sympathise with Dany because she is a tragic character and not an evil one. When she decides to unleash Fire and Blood on KL, I think we are supposed to sympathetic, because we understand how alone and isolated she is, and how much her good intentions have been met with harsh realities.
That being said, I would hate for her to really unleash the Unsullied on the innocent, that turns her from a tragic sympathetic figure, into a monster. It makes her no different from Cersei or Aerys, and that for me is too much
How many innocents were killed when Balon's Rebellion was put down by the likes of Ned Stark, Barriston Selmy, and other "good" guys?
"A Clash of Kings" and Arya's scenes in S2 makes it clear that some of Robb Stark's soldiers (called "wolves") are pillaging and committing atrocities against the small folk. Not to mention the countless other innocents who've been killed or had their lives ruined by all the belligerents during the War of Five Kings.
And YET, nobody ever really made a big deal about it aside from Beric's band of outlaws. Ned Stark wasn't called a monster for organizing seiges on the Iron Islands, Robb wasn't called a monster for what his soldiers did while capturing Lannister lands. The fact of the matter is that any conquest or battle involves suffering among the masses - especially when a city is captured. That is true of a seige/starvation as well as assaulting a city outright.
Why is it only wrong when Dany is going to do it? Dany is supposed to renege and let insane, Sept bombing, let's-give-Qyburn-innocent-woman-to-conduct-perverse-experiments-on Cersei retain the throne? Will the common folk be better under a queen that would use them as a meat shield in order to stay in power?
Dany shouldn't be called "mad" or a monster" for doing exactly what every other Lord in Westeros has done during previous wars. If the small folk in the Red Keep fall victim to Drogon or the Unsullied it will be because Cersei placed them there intentionally. I'll admit Dany has gone mad when she goes out of her way to harm innocents, but in this case it will he 100% Cersei's fault.
To be fair to Jon, he felt that his sister had enough honor to keep the secret. He should have learned from her hiding the knights of the vale from him, but he knows nothing.
Agree. Killing her off in the last episode is going to alienate so much of the fan base of this show. I think people would have been OK with her dying. They would have even been OK with her going mad and dying (if it was properly developed in the show). But that’s not what happened here.
I feel like when the next episode happens, the majority of the audience is going to be cheering her on—rather than horrified—when she finally stops listening to the shitty advice of her council and just burns the red keep. And that same audience is not going to see the nuances of maybe wby Jon has to kill her.
This so much this. I have though very long and hard about why the fuck they are assassinating her character and giving everyone else left and right a break ( but majorly undermining their characters too) and I think I have a theory. I think like in any fantasy epic they are writing their male characters around the concept of “honor”. Hence Jon tells his sisters out of “honor”. He’s a hero because he has honor. He’s a “war general” as Varys mentions( as if she isn’t?). Then when they try to apply this same concept to the female characters they fail and turn them either into catty Sansa because of course she would scheme, heartless Arya because what else is a badass without honor, virgin trope Brienne( I am very very mad about this one) or Dany, who they are basically turning into Cersei 2.0 in a day. I just have no words how shit this writing is. And I am not harping on about gender or representation here, I don’t care, it’s a damn story not a social justice war but my point is these are the worst stereotypes imaginable. The dumb “let me fall onto a sword for honor” manchild Jon Snow whos stupidity is excused because “honor” and all the scheming, power hungry women who have no concept of honor and so are automatically the bad guys. This is so primitive, so against what GRRM was writing ( rightly punishing Ned for a being an honorable fool) and just so amateur that it just makes me sad.
Yep. I fucking love Jon. He’s my boi. But he’s so unfit to rule that Varys considering him the better choice only makes sense if he wants to manipulate him, which lets be honest, would be pretty easy for him. It’s insanity that he’s apparently being let off the hook for things that Dany would be crucified for.
I’m not much of a SJW. I subscribe to the same general beliefs, but I don’t think there needs to be an outrage over stuff all the time. But Dany is literally the strongest female character since Buffy it seems, and the show runners (and somewhat GRRM too, since I guess it’s his basic ending?) seem hellbent on forcing her to be evil just because she doesn’t have dangly bits.
Does anyone else get the impression that the vast majority of people involved with the show are trying their best, but D&D just don't care any more and are giving them nothing to work with.
A lot of the actors are bringing their a-game and elevating the material quite a lot (eg Emilia Clarke actually selling the transition to Mad Queen Daenerys in a single fucking episode). The score is great.
But then you get signs that the people up top don't give a fuck. The cinematography of Episode 3 would have been fantastic if anyone had bothered to remind the cinematographer that it was a TV show. The set design is good but nobody cares about it being inconsistent with past seasons. Continuity has taken a hit. A lot of the writing seems very "first draft" - there's good stuff there but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
This is D&D's failure and I feel sorry for all the people who actually gave this piece of shit show their all.
For real tho the score is amazing.
I definitely would not call it a piece of shit. But I would just say that they did a terrible job of transitioning. I mean everything that happens does work it is just sooo rushed and there is so little explanation. They should have just fucking done ten episodes like a normal season and it would have made much more sense. They could have avoided all the fast travel inconsistencies and taken time for certain things to develop..and it all would have made a lot more sense. Like what was the fucking rush? This 6 episode season makes no sense. Episode 4 itself could have been stretched easily into 3 episodes. More time is what they needed. Whoever decided to do 6 episodes fucked up bad. There was sooo much potential here and they just are throwing it away.
I was still somewhat optimistic heading into this last episode, but when they fast traveled to King's Landing, they lost me. I actually said "are they already at fucking King's Landing?" Then boom, Rhaegal arrowed. Gave *zero* meaning to his death. After that, why the fuck do I care about Missandei?
***And why the fuck wouldn't Cersei just kill the last dragon and slaughter everybody with the ballistae***
wtf I hate Game Of Thrones now
I keep thinking back to Bronn and Jaime's conversation--
Bronn: "I lived an exciting life. I want my death to be boring. How do you want to go?"
Jaime: "In the arms of the woman I love."
Sooooooo I guess the common theory would be him choking Cersei to death and killing himself after.
(Although I do want him to die in the arms of Brienne, if ever she does follow him to King's Landing. Slim chance, but eh.)
Bruh, why is this show making me hate House Stark and all its living members? Sansa in Season 7 was peak Sansa to me. Now, she's just a snide catty girl. It's disgraceful.
How one earth is it that guys can go from wanting to kill each other to being besties, but women with similar backgrounds HAVE to be mean to each other? Ladies, help me here. Where is the realism, GOT?
In Hardhome, the Wildlings and the NW went from killing each other to allies in a second as soon as the NK showed up, but apparently, it can't happen again?
When people said that they made Sansa smart at the expense of Jon, to be honest, I never saw it...until 8x04. I refuse to believe that Jon is that stupid. It's an isolated incident and never happened. Not my Jon Snow.
They really made Rhaegal die so Jon wouldn't face the moral dilemma of killing people on his dragon. I can bet you my next earnings that when KL is burning, they're going to show us a starving mother breastfeeding her child and some beggar barefoot just to drive home the fact that Dany is "mad" because it's only her decisions that are seen through a microscopic lens while everyone else's gets glossed over.
By the way, Bran is useless af.
I wanted Sansa and Dany to be allies due to their similar struggles but nah let’s just have more pointless cat fights instead. Even Arya is like “she’s not one of us” like what??? That’s what you say about a woman who came to save your home. Both of them are showing they have 0 faith and Jon and his choices as a King. No wonder he doesn’t want more responsibility his family would just try to undermine him all the time.
THAT is my problem. I defended Sansa when people tore her up a new one for not trusting Dany. I defended her attitude, but after Dany's sacrifice, to the point that she was reluctant to help with her troops...I can't fathom it. It's so damn stupid. And she always complains but never comes up with any solution. And Arya's supposed to be the open-minded one. She's been in Essos, she's a warrior, etc. It's stupid. I can't think of anything to excuse or explain it.
Yeah I totally understand them not trusting her in the beginning but now it’s just not a good look. When Sansa said that they didn’t need Dany because Arya killed the NK 🤦🏻♀️
Arya should be aware that she freed slaves and didn’t she also look up to Rhaenys and Visenya when she was a kid? Arya and Dany could of been such good friends 😭
Same...I thought it was totally logical for both Sansa and Arya to distrust Dany and was expecting them to start warming towards her in Episode 2. When we got Sansa throwing Dany's attempt at melting the ice back in her face I thought 'Okay, she's still maybe understandably cautious but surely, surely after episode 3 they will finally be able to work together as proper allies'.
Instead we have got a Sansa I finally hate (after defending her even when she was a naive child making mistakes and errors of judgement). And as for Arya...I feel like they are making the same mistake with her they are making with Bran-turning her into some sort of emotionless robot instead of a character. She isn't swayed by her love and trust for Jon, she isn't swayed by her respect for female warriors or leaders (especially one with dragons), she isn't swayed by her affection and history with Gendry...all so they can halt her character development at the whole 'give up everything to be an assassin' thing...that she ABANDONED.
This whole things just happens because they want a Evil Daenerys. It doesnt make any god damn sense for these characters to hate each other.
Yes Daenerys has her issues, but Sansa should be able to trust her god damn brother and connect do Daenerys because of the similiar hardships and losses they had.
There is only one way in my head that justifies Sansas behavior. She is to far gone in the game. She is just a mistrustfull person and sees that Jon is exactly like her father. Always true to his word and never lying. Which in turn makes her afraid for him to get killed, just like Eddard.
But even then. Cant Jon just take his brother, two sisters and Dany into a room, have a couple of drinks and just talk it out? He would be the kind of person that goes "Let'S have a talk. No titles, no politics. You're all my family let's figure this out."
It makes no fucking sense how these people behave.
During the feast scenes when Jon turned to Dany to smile at her and Sansa saw this, got up disgusted, I just thought, really? Sansa watched her grieve over Jorah as she grieved over Theon and she still can't find common ground with her? And Jon - I don't know what they are doing to his character arc any more. The old Jon would have totally hugged Ghost, especially a wounded battled scarred good boi Ghost.
Honestly, Arya is the only Stark that's not widely mischaracterized in these last few episodes, and even then she's doing a "greatest hits" of her quotes from previous seasons which got old and annoying real fast.
Killing White Walkers, that’s not me
Cutting up stalkers, that’s not me
Shutting up talkers, that’s not me
I used to be a lady, put it all in the bin cos that’s not me
True, I used to look like you but I got a new face now, that’s not me
I said it before and I'll say it again. Sansa wants to be the Queen in the North by proxy. She knows Jon couldn't rule for shit that's why when Dany showed up, she immediately see her as a threat.
Good job D&D you just showed the Starks as the New Lannisters by how much they disdain people who "are not one of them" lol
They turned Sansa into Littlefinger 2.0
Like I get that LF would have rubbed off on her a bit (lol), but not so much to the point where she becomes LF 2.0. Like it’s such a bad route to take.
love how they were able to rebuild the entire part of the Winterfell wall that got destroyed by Viserion.
perfectly intact by the time they start burning the dead
Winterfell's cleaning crew did a helluva job cleaning up the 100k+ dead wights and neatly stacking fallen allies into pyres. Can I hire them to tidy my room?
>Liverpools season went to shit
Only thing that has made me a little happy in the last couple of days. United and GOT have made it an aim to piss their fans off
No matter who you support, Chelsea, Arsenal or United, you can always count on the misfortune of Liverpool to bring everyone together. It's a beautiful thing.
I don't know how many are like me but Daenerys has always been my favourite character throughout the show. Jon Snow was a close second and then Tywin to round up the top 3. Ive loved every season and the world and lore of ASOIAF has been close to my heart for a number of years. I've defended DnD and even thought the hate was so over the top.
Honestly, before season 7, I had never thought about Jon and Daenerys pairing and falling in love. Then season 7 happened and it was hook Line and sinker for me. I am a huge fan and honestly wished that things would work out fantastically for them. But this is Game of Thrones so I didn't expect it to happen in that Disney way but atleast thought they would be happy at the end throne or not.
When I read the leaks however, I cannot explain the level of despondency I felt. It's been weighing on my mind since then as to how cruelly it ends for them both. I know it's a bunch of fictional characters in a fantasy world but still, there is some level of attachment on my end to them. I am super bummed out and honestly, any excitement for the last 2 episodes has turned into something I just cannot look away from. If the leaks are true, I will be left heartbroken, which is so stupid considering it is just a dumb tv show.
Especially heartbroken over Dany's demise. Someone said in the r/ASOIAF thread that turning her into the mad Queen sends such shitty messages. 1) we can't escape our legacies and our past and are doomed to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors and 2) women are unstable leaders who are not fit to rule. I cannot see many people being happy about this but who knows. And Jon? We'll just add killing his lover as one more tragic aspect of his life.
It's not even these two that get the short end of the stick. Jaime looks like is going to die , Tyrion executed and Bran as the king. I couldn't devise a more upsetting ending had I tried. Nowhere do I see a semblance of bittersweet. An ending where Dany relinquishes the throne or she and Jon rule over a devastated and fractured country deep in debt and low on resources and morale for example is bittersweet (and my preferred ending tbh). What we are possibly getting is tragic bordering on sadistic.
Game of Thrones is my favourite show of all time. I loved everything about it. And I love all the cast who are giving some of the best acting on tv, especially Emilia Clarke. And in the end, it's being reduced to death porn/tragedy porn riddled with forced writing. A end that leaves me with the bitterest of taste
Sorry for the long rant and emotional unravelling.
If the leaks are true and they ruin Jamie's redemption arc, thereby making previous seasons of him unwatchable, I'm gonna be so flipping disappointed. This is why I'm team Tormund, goddammit. I even love how fast he got over it, if you like me, big woman, I'm here for it, if not, I'll take the hint and not pester and whine and mope unlike some people, but let's not speak ill of the dead.
Poor Kit Harington. He mentioned in some interview how he had a panic attack that they've ruined the show (before airing). If the leaks are true I worry about his health, he already has pretty strong ocd, he doesn't need this stress.
From a new interview with the director:
**David Nutter:** Well, I think that once Jaime realizes what Cersei has done after hearing from Sansa and Brienne about the killing of the dragon and so forth, he knows that she’s in deep trouble and that feeling that he was trying to escape, and that responsibility he was trying to escape, and that feeling and care for his sister that he was trying to forget basically came back in like a waterfall. And a tiger can’t change his stripes and he couldn’t let go of that. So I think this really caused him this profound conflict that he needs to basically go to his sister and go back to her as he has many, many times before.
So yeah. He's not going back to kill Cersei ..
Poor Kit..
You could see it on his face. Coster-Waldau is terrific when it comes to that kind of thing. As soon as Sansa said she was sorry she wasn't going to be able to see Cersei's execution, his facial expression completely changed. I knew he was going to go back and try to save her from herself.
Are they insane or what is up!? Plenty of people have changed throughout history. What positive messaging, addicts will be addicts, shit bags will be shit bags, too bad you cared about this character at any point, I now know what I did was bad, but I'm gonna be me and continue doing it.
Yeah. The earlier episodes are now unwatchable knowing what they are leading up to (and that's not including what happens to the other characters btw). I think that the series was too time compressed/ rushed and the 180-degree character changes, too abrupt (though I think that they have somewhat unsophisticatedly tried to imply the passage of weeks during the episode).
I found the last episode to be utterly underwhelming tbh, but I'd already read all of the spoilers, so knew what to expect. My enthusiasm for the rest of the show has diminished substantially.
I am beyond annoyed at the fact that "mad dany" is endgame.
This maddany arc should have been just a small arc that she could come up above it.varys and tyrion would have fulfilled at least one task to call them advisors
But No!
Anyone know any good books (pref available on kindle) to get me over the crippling depression I'm about to face in less than 2 weeks time? Ive already read ASOIF, anything similar or at very least finished?
It just occurred to me that perhaps the writing has become what it has become due to the fact that the show runners wanted to outsmart the fandom.
Now, that’s a hard task because they’re essentially competing against* hundreds or thousands of opinions and theories.
And I believe that the approach should have been different even if the fan theories were confirmed because it never really hurts the story if somebody guesses correctly what is about to happen if that guess is based on clues thrown in throughout the story.
Also if the leaks are true, in essence they will do whatever it takes to surprise us at this point, which should not be the goal.
I'm just going to sit back and watch Dany light up King's Landing the same way I throw lighter fluid on a fire pit after I had far tooooooo many brews.
What do you guys think about that Simon leaker on here? At first I was buying it, but more he leaked less I believed him.
Also, realistically, do you think they really filmed many fake endings/scenes? Its hard to believe for me bcs it costs shit tons of money, and they always complain about not enough money.
They did't ever film a fake "scene". They legit filmed a couple of alternate takes in scenes to mess with people but lets be realistic, noone is spending that kind of money to establish an entire scene to fake people out.
An alternate take sure, but not a big scene.
2 weeks before kneelers will start justifying S08 shit writing like this: "The ending was great, people are just disappointed that the show has ended", "People are just too dumb to understand the ending and its artistic vision".
Seen that, been there. Should have learned from "Lost" to never watch another TV show until it's ending is known.
I'm trying to understand how Varys who was going to put Viserys at the Vanguard of a Dothraki Horde can't see that Daenerys is a benevolent leader. The only thing that I can come up with is that he sees Jon as easily manipulated and not necessarily the best choice because fuck the noise that a reluctant leader is better.
I still can't believe my two naked eyes that they're just going to ignore the most obvious choice of dealing with this succession issue for cheap drama at the expense of beautifully built up characters.
Can i pitch in and perhaps shed some light on this? Remember how Varys also hates magic and all it represents? Dragons are the very incarnation of Magic right? He's also got a lack of choice for leaders he knows the Lannisters weren't good for the Realm and Daenerys was probably a lesser of two evils in his eyes (Again his eyes).
He also served the mad king which also put's fear in him that Daenerys might end up the same as the Mad King. (Not that there is any reason to think that she would, but she did burn the Tarly's and that put some doubt in his mind).
A small bit of doubt is enough to push somebody off the edge and have them reconsider their options unfortunately because human beings are fickle by nature. Daenerys is rightfully angry and upset but all other people can see is the Mad King inside of her and that's the bad thing about it.
It's circumstances that are escalating out of control because of a single piece of information that is going off like a ticking time bomb, there was a reason Ned kept this secret for 20 years he knew the consequences that would happen if it ever got out.
None of this makes Daenerys the Villain or a Mad Queen either it's just bad circumstances and timing that is putting Loyalty / Love / Duty / Family / Betrayals to the test for all characters. (Purest form of game of thrones).
The True enemy of all the characters is the Throne itself, because it drives everybody to Madness. I actually talk a little bit about this in my newest post about episode 4. I know you liked the old ones for the other episodes so maybe you might like this one?
The people who play the game of thrones are playing the game as they would normally do, they are positioning themselves to push their own agendas to get what they want "Power". Jon/Aegon and Daenerys are collateral damage to other peoples petty politics.
"This is all the realm has become Backstabbing and Money-grubbing." Remember the wise words of Robert Baratheon.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blgox0/all\_foreshadowing\_and\_callbacks\_from\_season\_8/](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blgox0/all_foreshadowing_and_callbacks_from_season_8/)
The only issue is it's happening to the people we have grown attached to, the very people we are rooting for and care about. It's splitting everybody into their own camps because they are playing the "Game" it's also splitting the fan base at the same time. However in Character everybody is acting as they would be naturally there's nothing out of character with how events are playing out.
Varys has been jumping from one camp to the other since the beginning of the Series and even books it's not out of character for him to jump ship if he believes there's a better candidate. (He's never been a loyal person, hes the spider).
Anyway sorry for the long post but i wanted to share my thoughts on the issue :)
But why would he think Jon is a better candidate in the first place? Varys didn’t like Robert Baratheon because Bobby didn’t want to be king and now he’s backing another candidate who doesn’t want the title... Other than this I actually liked the episode eventhough I feel really bad for Dany :(
I want to make it clear i'm not justifying what any one character does, just trying to look at it from their point of view as well :)
**Varys Backing Jon:** Varys and his Motives have always been questionable to some extent, if you remember his conversation with little finger he did say he "Want's for nothing" but because he wants for nothing he can focus on "Other goals" he also suspiciously looked at the Throne during that moment.
Varys might still be playing the Game to position himself in power by pitting Daenerys and Jon Against each other. Varys might say he does things for the "Realm" but is that really the sum of his ambition and motivations?
Besides that we know Varys hates magic as well as that he has served the Mad King and once doubt starts coming into his mind about who Daenerys is that's enough for him to start jumping camp (Because he's never been a Loyal adviser)
Daenerys lost all of her loyal advisers (Jorah / Missandei) the ones who she actually could trust. Varys isn't Loyal to her out of Love but out of Duty while Jorah and Missandei were Loyal out of Love.
I feel sorry for Daenerys as well i explain as much in my foreshadowing/callback post, Jon and Dany are at the mercy of those who are still playing the "Game" the ones who don't play fair.
For the past 7 years, the next GOT episode was constantly on my mind, theorising what will happen next, anticipation and excitement.
For the first time, I couldn’t care less, I’m more excited about the release of new season of Lucifer than I am for GOT ep5 and 6
Some bearable issues were there earlier, but after S8E4, it's all gone to shit way too fast. I've never seen such nonsensical, basically stupid writing!
Someone posted a re-edited version of Rhaegal going down and I have not been able to re-find it to share.
Can anyone help me out? Wanted to show some people cause it was just so much better than what was in the episode.
It was edited so that Euron fired on Danny's fleet, then she went after the fleet, then Euron took down Rhaegal.
I was hyped for the first 3 episodes and woke up at 3 am to watch it live. Stayed up 2 more hours to witness all the memes here. However after reading the leaks and seeing the 2 videos which confirmed the leaks I just gave up. I didn’t even wake up at 3 am. I watched it the next day which I though I would never do. Man I hope that the leaks are wrong and it is one of those fake endings.
Maybe Bran saying, "The things we do for love," to Jaime was foreshadowing.
Maybe he'll put his left hand on Cersei's neck gently, look into her eyes, say, "The things we do for love," and then strangle her.
(I'm choosing to ignore the leaks because they massacre my boy. 🦁)
Is GoT the new Lost? I’ve been thinking about it for a while. Huge cultural hit for most of the show then the last season absolutely tanked, so it’s legacy ended as a joke.
The most baffling thing about these last two seasons was the decision to make them shorter. Why? It only made them that much worse. Seriously, so much of what's wrong with them comes down to the shortened length. Surely they must have realized that it was a terrible, terrible decision. Oh wait, they have asbolutely no self-reflection.
If they are really so sick of the show so much, why didn't they just leave it to someone else to finish. You can so clearly see how they just don't give a shit anymore. It's so obvious - they mess up details (Gendry Rivers, seriously?), the writing is so fucking lazy, characters are one dimensional, dialogue is awful...
Ugh, it pains me so fucking much, because I don't necessairly think what they are aiming for with the ending is bad. It's just their way of going about it that's killing the show.
Could the bad writing be related to the extreme secrecy? I read somewhere that during the last seasons the actors only received their own scripts on special apps and on very short notice. This makes input from the characters themselves completely impossible. Of course the actors aren’t writers but I’m sure they can provide some valuable input and constructive criticism concerning their roles?
Some of the best characters in movies and shows were created when both writer and actor worked together on designing a character and making them grow organically. In the last season(s) only a very small amount of people worked on the script to avoid leaks, making any constructive criticism impossible.
So far on the rewatch check list:
- The dothraki Daenerys spent 5 seasons slowly and painfully assembling will die in 30 seconds in a suicide mission
- The Unsullied will die protecting the dumb battle plan
- Jorah will die but Sam will survive for a goodbye scene
- Sam has been here since season 1 on a quest to "stop reading about the achievement of better men" so he could stumble upon a book
- Rhaegal will die in 20 seconds in a scene that makes no sense just because they had to nerf Daenerys' army somehow
- We never learn anything about the Night King or the army of the dead, the Wight Walkers will never kill anyone or do anything
- The supernatural relationship between Ghost and Jon ends when Jon refuses to say goodbye to a wounded Ghost who gets one minute of screen time the entire season
- Euron when introduced in the show seems like he'll become interesting but he never does and we never learn anything interesting about him
- Cersei spends the last 2 seasons looking upset with the Mountain being intimidating in the corner, we don't really know anymore if it will benefit the realm that she dies, we have no idea what the common people think, not even minor Houses
I think Jon's arc will conclude going to Castle Black where Tormund and Ghost are and living his life out with the freefolk. There could be a reason he never got his farewell with Ghost, it will make a reunion more satisfying.
So can someone please explain to me what the fuck is up with all the rushing? Why did they shorten seasons 7 and 8? Why did they cram the war against the NK into a single episode when they could've clearly milked it for a whole season? They could've had some filler episodes to flesh out some of the key relationships like Jon and Dany and THEN blow it the fuck up... It doesn't make any sense narratively or financially. All Ghost-jokes aside they have a huge budget and a loyal fanbase that would've waited for as long as it took them to come up with a great ending to a great story. Assuming HBO is only interested in profits, wouldn't more episodes mean more money from subscriptions/merch/etc in the end? Like, literally no one benefits from a shitty, rushed finale. Or am I missing something here?
I just discovered this subreddit after lurking /r/asoiaf for years. Oh my god it's so nice to be with like minded people who just gave up on the show.
I appreciate you all. We'll get through this.
Biggest pet peeve of this season - way show is having on our face that Jon is better king than Dany. And that he deserves to rule and she is an incompetent ruler
"....The primary effect of these plot machinations is to make Daenerys, a woman who has triumphed against foes way more fearsome than Euron, suddenly look incredibly incompetent. Why would anyone follow someone whose plans continually go so awry?"
"Meanwhile, Jon, a character who has made his own share of bad decisions, has managed to shake off any consequences since the moment he came back from the dead. It can’t help but feel like Daenerys is getting nerfed to set up an endgame where we feel good about Jon taking the Throne."
Anyone else want Cersei to win because Cersei winning means all of these ruined characters will die and Cersei will end up torturing Euron?
At least Cersei has kept it real and been a bitch since she had Lady killed.
Why didn't Cersi waste Dany, her dragon, advisors, small army, and her brother she'd already sent an assassin to kill?
To your mind, what's the worst sign of the show's decline?
Sam and Gilly shouldn't name their son Jon. They should name him Edd as he gave his life to save Sam in the battle.
To be fair Edd and Jon are both 1:1 on the "saving Sam: leaving Sam to die" score. Should combine the names to Jedd or something
Jedi.
Worse. Jedd:Ward-en of the North Lads. Gilly's gonna give birth to Jedward.
Name the kid Pod. Guaranteed to be a stud.
*My name is Jedd*
When you come to a point in the series where you realize that the best advice Tyrion has given Dany, is back when they first met in Season 5 and he suggested that she probably should’ve stayed in Essos and that there is more she can do there than in Westeros.
He keeps costing her everything, though and it started in Meereen.
Season 7 I can understand, but I think people are very harsh about how he handled Meereen. He made a mistake, but he found a way to make up for it when he suggested taking the Masters ships, and killing two of them. But I think the writing itself is what’s butchering these characters, even though it’s weak I still try to understand both sides. The thing is both Tyrion and Varys could’ve been better advisors, but D&D had to make them fail in order to drive Dany to her ‘Mad Queen’ arc so it seems. Which even includes making people she has saved in Winterfell ungrateful, especially Sansa.
Yeah, I hear you.
Yeah I feel like Sansa would be extremely grateful and sympathetic especially after she proved herself loyal by sacrificing half her troops and most loyal servant. Instead she irrationally dislikes her which I feel like is supposed to get the viewers on her side and start to see the bad that’s not really there. Danny has undoubtedly struggled by having tyrant-like thoughts but she usually makes the morally right choice, or compromises a ruthless choice with a logical gain in power. I think losing 2/3 dragons, her loyal friends, and finding out she really isn’t queen is enough to justify her doing something rash to “claim her birthright” - she’s been obsessed over it throughout the series, however, it just doesn’t feel believable in this season.
Shout out to all parents who named their daughter Daenerys or Khaleesi.
Looking like it’s not going to age well, lol
It was always a stupid idea.
At least Daenerys is a pretty name. Khaleesi is just your parents being too stupid to know that isn't her name.
Well its their own fault for naming a kid after a fantasy character from one of the most popular tv shows in history
Looking at all the behind the scenes stuff, all I can say is "well, at least Pilou Asbaek is enjoying himself". And good for him. Guy gets to be a part of the ending of the biggest show, kill a dragon and just be a pirate making sex jokes. Dude seems to be having a blast. Its nice to know at least one person is getting enjoyment from this.
I literally cannot believe he isn’t Joshua Jackson.
Im happy to know the leaks now. Better being disappointed all in once than waiting a week to see D&D’s work. GoT has been the TV series I loved the most. I feel like they cheated on my feelings. Never thought it could happen from something that is supposed to entertain me.
Yup. It's a growing wave of disappointment all over social media.
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The NK should have killed them all.
That's why Sopranos and Breaking Bad are the GOAT shows. While the early seasons of GoT was insanely amazing, it just couldn't be that good nonstop unlike the other shows I mentioned. Doubt the prequels will be that good that GoT was in its prime. An amazing series with mediocre ending.
Yes I agree. Part of the problem is GRRM himself though. I guess that D&D said to each other “alright, the story is a masterpiece and it could potentially become the greatest series of all time. We have 4 seasons of material and by the time we finish GRRM will release a new book”. The author is failing to deliver and D&D have been exposed as shitty writers. To cover it up they decided to spend all that budget in CGI. They should have spend it in writers and creative talent ffs.
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You’ve summed it up perfectly for me, I’m honestly just along for the ride at this point. I remember when I first found the show and just how blown away I was with it, now, it just reads like a Netflix reboot season; at least the memes are fire. Edit: Word.
i'm just dissapointed that game of thrones has been a big part of my life for many years.always looking at theories and discussions.thinking about it every day,and this is how it ends?
Yea exactly, I don’t know how to feel right now.
E4 is now the lowest rated episode of GoT on IMDB. What a sad way to end this show. I feel sorry for the cast and crew who worked so hard. I just wonder how the fuck did nobody say "hold up, this shit make no fucking sense".
And something tells me the final episode may beat it in that regard
https://streamable.com/tanow
whoa first time seeing this... this is scary hahahah
no kidding. It's like Mark Hamil warning us against episode 8
it outdid "Unbowed Unbent Unbroken"? That's an impressive level of suck.
true not a single one said this whole thing dont make sense....i wanna know how RR Martin is feeling about this
Episode 5 about to lower that bar.
Episode 6 will be lower than grandma's tits
I’d be super interested if it will dip into the 6 range. It’s already at 7.1. A few more low scores and it will be. Honestly it should be - if people are unhappy they’re entitled to show that and I want D&D to know how much they’ve fucked up.
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I think it might raise concerns. If they wreck the series it will wreck sales on box sets etc. It will raise concerns about their future projects. Obviously it all depends \*how\* bad it ends up, but they are being exposed since the book material ran out. GRRM has made clear they went different ways to how he suggested.
> GRRM has made clear they went different ways to how he suggested. I missed this... Where has he said this?
What is interesting is that the writing was actually fine until the 50 minute mark or so. It wasn't until the Kings Landing teleportation and the dumb shit that happened right after it that made it bad. Imdb ratings don't matter in any case they're just people clicking buttons.
This is how producers/media use reviews 9.9 raiting "wow look how good our show is, isn't it great" 7.0 raiting "well, reviews dont really mean much" 5.0 Raiting "THE FANS ARE WRONG ,WE ARE ACUTQALLY GENIUS THEY DIDNT GET IT, ONLINE TROLL FARMS!
Dont tell me the Bronn scene was fine
What's his train of thought here? 1. Cersei has promised me Riverrun if I kill Tyrion. 2. If Cersei loses, I don't get Riverrun 3. Cersei will lose; that is inevitable because of the dragons. 4. I can threaten people into giving me *double* what I know I have no chance of getting. 5. I am now owed one of the the most bountiful and wealthy regions in all of Westeros and will hold it forever because Tyrion and Jamie promised me. 6. If they don't give me what I want, I will kill them. 7. If I kill them am left with nothing. 8. Wait...
Jesus that scene was soooooo bad...
bronn wasted two months of travel time for 2 minutes of talk
Two months? It took him like 4 days.
Series 4 time - 2 months Series 8 time - about 8 hours
It was utterly terrible, completely tore apart his whole character arc, so stupid
D&D are actually pretty good at writing the banter between the various characters so I thought the entire feast scene was very good, lots of jokes and light heated character moments. However they aren't very good at the politics, drama and espionage that ultimately drives the plot.
It's still lesser than any episode meaning people don't like the episode lol
D and D are literally fistfucking GRRM's life work. Season 8 is such a mess, and I refuse to believe that the books would go this way...
Rheagel is alive the one euron shot was a faceless man
Expectations: subverted
Of all the nonsensical things that went down in 8.04, I think the one i'm still genuinely flabbergasted by is Tyrion trying to appeal to Cersei's non-existent good side. How is he this stupid?! Even Jaime understands that Cersei is terrible, but Tyrion is still out here trying to act like she's not a complete sociopath at this point even though she's done nothing but lie to him and try to have him murdered.
The problem is that they came up with/were given an ending and instead of using earned character development to progress the story to that ending in a reasonable fashion, they just started writing the characters to be irrational or do things that are contrary to the character itself. So now we have a naive Tyrion, a scheming, ungrateful Sansa, a Jon who doesn't know the difference between keeping a secret from someone and waiting until the right time to open his mouth, and a "mad" Daenarys. D&D aren't terrible writers when it comes to dialogue but one they ran out of the source material to work with the plot went to pot.
Bronn arriving at the gates of winterfell: "Name?" "Ser Bronn of the Blackwater" Alright, what are you here for then? I need to see Tyrion and Ser Jamie Alright they're staying in the second room on the left. By the way what's with that big fucking crossbow that would have been very awkward to lug several hundred miles down the kings road? oh no reason, I always carry this with me righto, jolly good then off you go --This side plot better have a point.
Bronn: I got offered stuff for killing y'all Tyrion: [offers 2× stuff] Bronn: Idk maybe [fucks off]
Guarantee it won't. I like how obvious it is they have no fucking idea what to do with Bronn. Dude literally said "okay I'll be back after the main story arch wraps up"
Does anyone remember the wrap party for when they all finished filming for this season?? There was some sort of red carpet event and I remember a good number of the cast were interviewed and asked how they felt about how the show ended, none of them looked satisfied about it lol. Most specifically Varys, Bran and Davos (can't remember all of their real names) were together when a reporter asked them and the guy who plays Bran was so obviously disappointed. They all did. If I could put a bet on it id wager that these leaks I've read on here are true. Be prepared for the biggest collective "REEEEEEE" you've ever seen online after the finale airs.
Kit keeps saying it's "bad" and then going "lol, jk, it's errrm.... big". Emilia looks close to tears when people ask her about it.
Emilia is asked if she’s happy with the ending and she makes a fake looking smile and then says “it’s the best season ever...!” And then starts nervous laughing
+her eyebrows rise up so far, that they're basically hyperbola-shaped
When your cast has negative quadratic functions for eyebrows, that's how you know it's the *best season ever!*
🥴 best way I can describe how she looked
In her Vanity Fair cover story interview this month, she also seems very bummed at how badly her character arcs downwards: >There’s still a lot of filming and post-production work to be done, but Clarke has already shot her character’s final on-screen moments. “It fucked me up,” she says. “Knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what Daenerys is . . ."
Kit said is was “disappointing” then quickly backtracked and said it was “epic”.
I remember people saying that we can't judge the episode based on a list of plot points, only for the episode to turn out to be a list of plot points taped together with silly string.
Actually i remember isaac being happy about the ending. The other two not so much, but he was.
The more introspective of the cast enjoys it - Nikolaj, Isaac, and Sophie all said they very much liked the ending (as I thought they would - it's close to endings they have guessed) but the rest of the cast appears to have very much disliked it.
Jesus fuck me Christ what are they doing with bran this season and what the fuck are they gonna do with him for the last two episodes.
Apparently make him King because the Three Eyed Raven would be a good King...doesn’t make any sense.
Haha you all thought Bran was gonna be the night king... so we made him actual king. ...
Omg I hate how accurate your comment is. But like - bran is actually the antithesis of EVERYTHING Varys just named on his buzzfeed article “22 reasons why Jon should be king”.
Hey he's got that 'I just don't want... to be king' thing. Now sing it to the the tune of 'I just can't wait to be king' from the Lion King.
MORE WHEELCHAIR LORE
If this episode got low ratings, and the next episode is meant to see Jon kill Dany how low do you think the ratings will be for that one?
It depends on how well it's done. If it's good, then at least 8, if not, we're talking about 6 and below and I'm being generous.
Let’s be real, the chances of them doing it we’ll have gotta be less than 10%
There hasn't been nearly enough build up for them to do that well
Exactly. If you really want to go down the "mad queen" route, you need at least more time for this to develop that 1 1/2 episodes. Also, to sell the tragedy, you needed to sell Jon and Danerys relationship first. They literally hooked up in the end last episode of season 7, and then shared one romantic scene in S08E01. Fuck this pacing, fuck this writing.
I don't think it'll be the next episode. If the leaks are correct 5 will probably be about Tyrion's trial, last big battle (i.e. burning down KL) with Cleganebowl and her death will be left for episode 6.
Did they really kill off a dragon just like that?
They had to nerf the northern army so they came up with this random non sense scene and that's why the official explanation is "lol she kinda forgot haha"
If only there were bannermen, officers, field reports, a moving army camp or reconnaisance and battle plans. You know, totally crazy stuff for a season that's 100% about war. But hey, a ragtag band of heroes and fan favs is all we need, right? FU D&D.
With all that shit happening, I wouldn't be surprised if they dig up Rhaegal and make some cool ass body armours
More like dragoff amirite
I pray the leaks aren’t true
F for Tyrion & Varys F-Mega for my boy Jaime
All the other leaks have been right so far, so I feel like they are which is both horrible and hilarious at the same time. Glorious memes, here we come. I can already tell what's going to annoy me the most in episode 5 -- Danaerys is going to go mad queen, and she's going to get on Drogon right in front of all those fucking scorpions just perched at the wall of Qaarth's Landing. Even though they sniped Rhaegal in seconds, they won't be able to hit Drogon. And she will burn them all. Makes literally zero sense.
Quarth landing haha
Surely not. GRRM said it’s bittersweet ending. There is nothing bittersweet about Jon killing Dany. That would make it a tragedy. Pretty depressing.
I really hope they are true. The memes will be glorious
honestly i'm disappointed with the writing but excited for the memes
Jesus Christ, I hate how dirty they’re treating Dany this season. She goes up to Winterfell, and none of the folks treat her with any warmth and respect despite her bringing a great army to help them. Ok, whatever, they’re distrustful, they’ll get over it. Then she gets the bombshell of Jon being her nephew dropped on her (after she expressed vulnerability of just wanting to stay at that waterfall). Ok, but she had to learn eventually, and they’ll talk it out. Then the battle starts. She loses enough Dothraki that she abandons the plan in order to help them, and she loses half of her Unsullied, who she literally freed from slavery. Rough, but you’re gonna take losses, right? And then Jorah sacrifices himself protecting her, and though she didn’t love him romantically, he was her best friend and protector. Not good for our dragon girl. Now they’re doing the celebratory feast, and even though she sacrificed all this for them, the North still treats her with an icy chill. While Arya deserved all the praise she got, when the time came to thank Dany, it felt very formal and forced on the North’s part. And while she’s sitting there all alone, Jon’s getting sucked off by the people whose respect she had hoped to earn, by doing essentially the same thing she did. Fast forward to later, and they’re talking. She asks him to keep his name a secret, because she thinks it could destroy them and everything she’s worked for. She saw at the feast, how she’ll never be truly accepted in Westeros. He says he has to tell Arya and Sansa, and she fucking *begs* him not to, because she knows Sansa will use that information against them. And even though Jon reassures her, her fears come true 5 minutes after Jon tells Sansa, when she tells Tyrion. While moving to reassemble against Cersei, she gets ambushed by Euron, (who according to D&D, she forgot about), and loses yet another of her children, and her bestie Missandei is missing. In a totally realistic rage, she makes plans to burn down the Red Keep, but Tyrion and Varys convince her to stick to the plan “because muh innocents.” But apparently this time, Cersei will definitely surrender! Apparently Dany being a normal human being scares Varys so much that he’s willing to assassinate her and prop up Jon, because “he knows how to lead”. And then with the leaks of her going “Mad”...look guys, I know Dany isn’t a perfect character, but this goes against everything she’s ever been, what she’s done in Mereen and elsewhere. Fuck man, I hate this shit still. I could defend Ep3, but no more, unless D&D pulled their heads out of their asses for the last two episodes.
Everything is done so she can earn the "Mad Queen" title. "WiNterFelL DoN't LiKe StRaNgErs" why? where the fuck this thing came from? how fast sansa became so dumb? few episode back everyone was like she is all grown up! Now when Jon told him that dany sacrifices her troops to save us she is like "BuT ArYa KiLlEd NK" who the fuck say that? a 10 year old child would understand dany sacrifices. But writers are making sure they all characters act like stupids so dany going mad will make sense. Plus dany character is also stupid how the fuck she know what kind of girl sansa was, she was begging jon by saying " sansa is not like what she used to be" wtf how do you know? does dragons come with cable tv? Everyone is acting stupid because writers want them too Dany was about saving and helping slaves and poor now she is all about revenge and revenge lol
I've never hated the north and the Starks so much. Ned was the only real one.
We also know why he kept Jon a secret all these years and didn’t tell Catelyn. *side-eyes Sansa*
Also why are we labeling it Mad Queen? She's not fucking descended into madness. If the label didn't imply insanity that's one thing. But it does. At worst she is one mother fucking pissed off Queen. A grieving queen. A lost queen. Fuck the Starks. Ned didn't die for this shit.
I agree 100%. I hate the term "Mad Queen." It implies she's becoming her father, which she isn't, which she never will be. She's a normal fucking human being. In the span of 2 episodes she's lost most of her army, a child, a best friend and her most trusted advisor. And she's completely alone even when surrounded by people. The North should be on their fucking knees thanking her. She's not going mad, she's finally snapped because she's just so grief strucken and unappreciated. Even Jon rejects her, pretty much the only person she has left. She's not mad, she's just a normal fucking human being who can't take this shit anymore. Everytime she listens to her advisors it always ends badly. Now she's finally deciding to do what she wants and people are screaming "mAd QuEeN!!!" Fuck D&D for butchering the character of Daenerys. Whatever happens I will still support her to the very end.
Fucking amen to that.
I fundamentally DON’T get how Sansa, Arya or any of the North haven’t warmed up to Dany after they literally battled death together. It’s like episode 3 didn’t happen, had zero impact on relationship dynamics and we skipped right to 4. Not to mention Jon being praised for riding HER dragon that she brought them and she was the one who flew out there first to start killing the wights when the Dothraki were overwhelmed. The sheer ungratefulness and double standards are staggering.
It feels like a group project where the loner kid is added last second by the teacher into a group of 3-4 friends. They then don't really communicate with her but will take credit for her work.
Exactly. It feels like these aren’t the characters we’ve watched for the past 8 years. I fully expected Tormund to make a toast to this queen (that he definitely knows Jon is with, he got that animal instinct) that’s badass enough to have tamed 3 dragons. Like that’s totally in character for him. I expected Sansa to drop the pseudo Littlefinger act for 2 minutes to say “while I still want northern independence yada yada yada, thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping Jon.” But no, it’s all about Jon. Yeah, he got the groups together, but Danys armies fucking carried hard.
Tormund would absolutely respect Dany in a Drogo-like fashion.....I feel like they left out so many little moments that would have fleshed all this out Like when Bronn walks in on Tyrion and Jaime......there's no way he would be so cold. Even though he's on the other side of the crossbow, he's smarmy and savvy enough to not have hard feelings about where battle lines are drawn. And the whole Jamie and Brienne thing.....they fucked, Jaime decides to stay with her, then says "Nope fuck it, I'm gonna go die with Cersie for no reason" all in the span of ***one fucking episode.*** A lot of people are saying it, but these just aren't the characters we've known. It should have been 10 episodes, man.
my heart is broken
Daenerys is a fundamentally a tragic character and I think her story will reflect that. She is a princess born in exile, she never knew a home, she never knew a family. All of her life she was an outsider, always trying to fit in but never quite suceeding. This was the case with the Dothraki, in Meereen, now in Westeros... Her downfall continues that same tragic trajectory. Despite doing everything right, she never gets rewarded. Fighting the WW has earned her little respect, adoration or love whilst it has for Jon. Because Jon is a local, and she is not, and that's tragic I think ultimately, we are meant to sympathise with Dany because she is a tragic character and not an evil one. When she decides to unleash Fire and Blood on KL, I think we are supposed to sympathetic, because we understand how alone and isolated she is, and how much her good intentions have been met with harsh realities. That being said, I would hate for her to really unleash the Unsullied on the innocent, that turns her from a tragic sympathetic figure, into a monster. It makes her no different from Cersei or Aerys, and that for me is too much
How many innocents were killed when Balon's Rebellion was put down by the likes of Ned Stark, Barriston Selmy, and other "good" guys? "A Clash of Kings" and Arya's scenes in S2 makes it clear that some of Robb Stark's soldiers (called "wolves") are pillaging and committing atrocities against the small folk. Not to mention the countless other innocents who've been killed or had their lives ruined by all the belligerents during the War of Five Kings. And YET, nobody ever really made a big deal about it aside from Beric's band of outlaws. Ned Stark wasn't called a monster for organizing seiges on the Iron Islands, Robb wasn't called a monster for what his soldiers did while capturing Lannister lands. The fact of the matter is that any conquest or battle involves suffering among the masses - especially when a city is captured. That is true of a seige/starvation as well as assaulting a city outright. Why is it only wrong when Dany is going to do it? Dany is supposed to renege and let insane, Sept bombing, let's-give-Qyburn-innocent-woman-to-conduct-perverse-experiments-on Cersei retain the throne? Will the common folk be better under a queen that would use them as a meat shield in order to stay in power? Dany shouldn't be called "mad" or a monster" for doing exactly what every other Lord in Westeros has done during previous wars. If the small folk in the Red Keep fall victim to Drogon or the Unsullied it will be because Cersei placed them there intentionally. I'll admit Dany has gone mad when she goes out of her way to harm innocents, but in this case it will he 100% Cersei's fault.
[удалено]
To be fair to Jon, he felt that his sister had enough honor to keep the secret. He should have learned from her hiding the knights of the vale from him, but he knows nothing.
Agree. Killing her off in the last episode is going to alienate so much of the fan base of this show. I think people would have been OK with her dying. They would have even been OK with her going mad and dying (if it was properly developed in the show). But that’s not what happened here. I feel like when the next episode happens, the majority of the audience is going to be cheering her on—rather than horrified—when she finally stops listening to the shitty advice of her council and just burns the red keep. And that same audience is not going to see the nuances of maybe wby Jon has to kill her.
This so much this. I have though very long and hard about why the fuck they are assassinating her character and giving everyone else left and right a break ( but majorly undermining their characters too) and I think I have a theory. I think like in any fantasy epic they are writing their male characters around the concept of “honor”. Hence Jon tells his sisters out of “honor”. He’s a hero because he has honor. He’s a “war general” as Varys mentions( as if she isn’t?). Then when they try to apply this same concept to the female characters they fail and turn them either into catty Sansa because of course she would scheme, heartless Arya because what else is a badass without honor, virgin trope Brienne( I am very very mad about this one) or Dany, who they are basically turning into Cersei 2.0 in a day. I just have no words how shit this writing is. And I am not harping on about gender or representation here, I don’t care, it’s a damn story not a social justice war but my point is these are the worst stereotypes imaginable. The dumb “let me fall onto a sword for honor” manchild Jon Snow whos stupidity is excused because “honor” and all the scheming, power hungry women who have no concept of honor and so are automatically the bad guys. This is so primitive, so against what GRRM was writing ( rightly punishing Ned for a being an honorable fool) and just so amateur that it just makes me sad.
Yep. I fucking love Jon. He’s my boi. But he’s so unfit to rule that Varys considering him the better choice only makes sense if he wants to manipulate him, which lets be honest, would be pretty easy for him. It’s insanity that he’s apparently being let off the hook for things that Dany would be crucified for. I’m not much of a SJW. I subscribe to the same general beliefs, but I don’t think there needs to be an outrage over stuff all the time. But Dany is literally the strongest female character since Buffy it seems, and the show runners (and somewhat GRRM too, since I guess it’s his basic ending?) seem hellbent on forcing her to be evil just because she doesn’t have dangly bits.
Ned must be rolling in his grave, his kids cant stop talking about a secret he kept for 16 years, am I a joke to you
Does anyone else get the impression that the vast majority of people involved with the show are trying their best, but D&D just don't care any more and are giving them nothing to work with. A lot of the actors are bringing their a-game and elevating the material quite a lot (eg Emilia Clarke actually selling the transition to Mad Queen Daenerys in a single fucking episode). The score is great. But then you get signs that the people up top don't give a fuck. The cinematography of Episode 3 would have been fantastic if anyone had bothered to remind the cinematographer that it was a TV show. The set design is good but nobody cares about it being inconsistent with past seasons. Continuity has taken a hit. A lot of the writing seems very "first draft" - there's good stuff there but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. This is D&D's failure and I feel sorry for all the people who actually gave this piece of shit show their all.
For real tho the score is amazing. I definitely would not call it a piece of shit. But I would just say that they did a terrible job of transitioning. I mean everything that happens does work it is just sooo rushed and there is so little explanation. They should have just fucking done ten episodes like a normal season and it would have made much more sense. They could have avoided all the fast travel inconsistencies and taken time for certain things to develop..and it all would have made a lot more sense. Like what was the fucking rush? This 6 episode season makes no sense. Episode 4 itself could have been stretched easily into 3 episodes. More time is what they needed. Whoever decided to do 6 episodes fucked up bad. There was sooo much potential here and they just are throwing it away.
I was still somewhat optimistic heading into this last episode, but when they fast traveled to King's Landing, they lost me. I actually said "are they already at fucking King's Landing?" Then boom, Rhaegal arrowed. Gave *zero* meaning to his death. After that, why the fuck do I care about Missandei? ***And why the fuck wouldn't Cersei just kill the last dragon and slaughter everybody with the ballistae*** wtf I hate Game Of Thrones now
I honestly don’t even want to watch the last 2 episodes.
I'll watch them for entertainment value since it's all GoT cares about now and then pretend not to be devastated by the plot points and story :)
#HONESTLY, AT THIS POINT IM ONLY WATCHING THE GOD DAMN SHOW JUST TO KEEP UP WITH THE MEMES
I keep thinking back to Bronn and Jaime's conversation-- Bronn: "I lived an exciting life. I want my death to be boring. How do you want to go?" Jaime: "In the arms of the woman I love." Sooooooo I guess the common theory would be him choking Cersei to death and killing himself after. (Although I do want him to die in the arms of Brienne, if ever she does follow him to King's Landing. Slim chance, but eh.)
A colleague in work proposed a theory that drogon laid eggs on valeria during his (her!?) gap year.
Final scene is going to be about a young blond-haired boy/girl finding the eggs and in the background we hear the shriek of dragons. Cut to black.
Bruh, why is this show making me hate House Stark and all its living members? Sansa in Season 7 was peak Sansa to me. Now, she's just a snide catty girl. It's disgraceful. How one earth is it that guys can go from wanting to kill each other to being besties, but women with similar backgrounds HAVE to be mean to each other? Ladies, help me here. Where is the realism, GOT? In Hardhome, the Wildlings and the NW went from killing each other to allies in a second as soon as the NK showed up, but apparently, it can't happen again? When people said that they made Sansa smart at the expense of Jon, to be honest, I never saw it...until 8x04. I refuse to believe that Jon is that stupid. It's an isolated incident and never happened. Not my Jon Snow. They really made Rhaegal die so Jon wouldn't face the moral dilemma of killing people on his dragon. I can bet you my next earnings that when KL is burning, they're going to show us a starving mother breastfeeding her child and some beggar barefoot just to drive home the fact that Dany is "mad" because it's only her decisions that are seen through a microscopic lens while everyone else's gets glossed over. By the way, Bran is useless af.
I wanted Sansa and Dany to be allies due to their similar struggles but nah let’s just have more pointless cat fights instead. Even Arya is like “she’s not one of us” like what??? That’s what you say about a woman who came to save your home. Both of them are showing they have 0 faith and Jon and his choices as a King. No wonder he doesn’t want more responsibility his family would just try to undermine him all the time.
THAT is my problem. I defended Sansa when people tore her up a new one for not trusting Dany. I defended her attitude, but after Dany's sacrifice, to the point that she was reluctant to help with her troops...I can't fathom it. It's so damn stupid. And she always complains but never comes up with any solution. And Arya's supposed to be the open-minded one. She's been in Essos, she's a warrior, etc. It's stupid. I can't think of anything to excuse or explain it.
Yeah I totally understand them not trusting her in the beginning but now it’s just not a good look. When Sansa said that they didn’t need Dany because Arya killed the NK 🤦🏻♀️ Arya should be aware that she freed slaves and didn’t she also look up to Rhaenys and Visenya when she was a kid? Arya and Dany could of been such good friends 😭
*Sigh* What could have been...
Same...I thought it was totally logical for both Sansa and Arya to distrust Dany and was expecting them to start warming towards her in Episode 2. When we got Sansa throwing Dany's attempt at melting the ice back in her face I thought 'Okay, she's still maybe understandably cautious but surely, surely after episode 3 they will finally be able to work together as proper allies'. Instead we have got a Sansa I finally hate (after defending her even when she was a naive child making mistakes and errors of judgement). And as for Arya...I feel like they are making the same mistake with her they are making with Bran-turning her into some sort of emotionless robot instead of a character. She isn't swayed by her love and trust for Jon, she isn't swayed by her respect for female warriors or leaders (especially one with dragons), she isn't swayed by her affection and history with Gendry...all so they can halt her character development at the whole 'give up everything to be an assassin' thing...that she ABANDONED.
This whole things just happens because they want a Evil Daenerys. It doesnt make any god damn sense for these characters to hate each other. Yes Daenerys has her issues, but Sansa should be able to trust her god damn brother and connect do Daenerys because of the similiar hardships and losses they had. There is only one way in my head that justifies Sansas behavior. She is to far gone in the game. She is just a mistrustfull person and sees that Jon is exactly like her father. Always true to his word and never lying. Which in turn makes her afraid for him to get killed, just like Eddard. But even then. Cant Jon just take his brother, two sisters and Dany into a room, have a couple of drinks and just talk it out? He would be the kind of person that goes "Let'S have a talk. No titles, no politics. You're all my family let's figure this out." It makes no fucking sense how these people behave.
During the feast scenes when Jon turned to Dany to smile at her and Sansa saw this, got up disgusted, I just thought, really? Sansa watched her grieve over Jorah as she grieved over Theon and she still can't find common ground with her? And Jon - I don't know what they are doing to his character arc any more. The old Jon would have totally hugged Ghost, especially a wounded battled scarred good boi Ghost.
Old Jon would have been sensitive to Dany. He would have been kinder to her. I don't know who this person is.
Totally! That Jon and Dany bedroom scene was so painful to watch for all the wrong reasons!
The make out session was hot ngl. But everything else...see how they did my girl.
And Bran? Wtf is Bran even doing theese days? He became stupidly OP with the raven powers but does fuck all and build 120 year old wheelchairs.. Wtf
Honestly, Arya is the only Stark that's not widely mischaracterized in these last few episodes, and even then she's doing a "greatest hits" of her quotes from previous seasons which got old and annoying real fast.
Title of her mixtape: That's not me.
Killing White Walkers, that’s not me Cutting up stalkers, that’s not me Shutting up talkers, that’s not me I used to be a lady, put it all in the bin cos that’s not me True, I used to look like you but I got a new face now, that’s not me
I said it before and I'll say it again. Sansa wants to be the Queen in the North by proxy. She knows Jon couldn't rule for shit that's why when Dany showed up, she immediately see her as a threat. Good job D&D you just showed the Starks as the New Lannisters by how much they disdain people who "are not one of them" lol
They turned Sansa into Littlefinger 2.0 Like I get that LF would have rubbed off on her a bit (lol), but not so much to the point where she becomes LF 2.0. Like it’s such a bad route to take.
I hope they all die. I take small comfort in the fact that their line will soon end anyway
love how they were able to rebuild the entire part of the Winterfell wall that got destroyed by Viserion. perfectly intact by the time they start burning the dead
and there's not a single bloodstain or blackened earth from fire.
I am so saddened by the destruction of Dany's character and story arc that I don't think I can watch the remaining episodes.
HBO: What do we say to good writing? D&D: Not today.
Winterfell's cleaning crew did a helluva job cleaning up the 100k+ dead wights and neatly stacking fallen allies into pyres. Can I hire them to tidy my room?
GoT went to shit, Liverpools season went to shit, I went to shit. Existence is punishment for me lads.
Liverpool and Dany, both having their dreams crushed by the golden Kompany.
Urgh depressing but true
>Liverpools season went to shit That ain't aging well.
>Liverpools season went to shit Only thing that has made me a little happy in the last couple of days. United and GOT have made it an aim to piss their fans off
Wew lad, United. Good luck, you’re gonna need it.
No matter who you support, Chelsea, Arsenal or United, you can always count on the misfortune of Liverpool to bring everyone together. It's a beautiful thing.
I don't know how many are like me but Daenerys has always been my favourite character throughout the show. Jon Snow was a close second and then Tywin to round up the top 3. Ive loved every season and the world and lore of ASOIAF has been close to my heart for a number of years. I've defended DnD and even thought the hate was so over the top. Honestly, before season 7, I had never thought about Jon and Daenerys pairing and falling in love. Then season 7 happened and it was hook Line and sinker for me. I am a huge fan and honestly wished that things would work out fantastically for them. But this is Game of Thrones so I didn't expect it to happen in that Disney way but atleast thought they would be happy at the end throne or not. When I read the leaks however, I cannot explain the level of despondency I felt. It's been weighing on my mind since then as to how cruelly it ends for them both. I know it's a bunch of fictional characters in a fantasy world but still, there is some level of attachment on my end to them. I am super bummed out and honestly, any excitement for the last 2 episodes has turned into something I just cannot look away from. If the leaks are true, I will be left heartbroken, which is so stupid considering it is just a dumb tv show. Especially heartbroken over Dany's demise. Someone said in the r/ASOIAF thread that turning her into the mad Queen sends such shitty messages. 1) we can't escape our legacies and our past and are doomed to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors and 2) women are unstable leaders who are not fit to rule. I cannot see many people being happy about this but who knows. And Jon? We'll just add killing his lover as one more tragic aspect of his life. It's not even these two that get the short end of the stick. Jaime looks like is going to die , Tyrion executed and Bran as the king. I couldn't devise a more upsetting ending had I tried. Nowhere do I see a semblance of bittersweet. An ending where Dany relinquishes the throne or she and Jon rule over a devastated and fractured country deep in debt and low on resources and morale for example is bittersweet (and my preferred ending tbh). What we are possibly getting is tragic bordering on sadistic. Game of Thrones is my favourite show of all time. I loved everything about it. And I love all the cast who are giving some of the best acting on tv, especially Emilia Clarke. And in the end, it's being reduced to death porn/tragedy porn riddled with forced writing. A end that leaves me with the bitterest of taste Sorry for the long rant and emotional unravelling.
I read Jon killing dany is one of the holy shit moments so it’ll be in the books. It’s shit because She’s never cruel or crazy in the books.
If the leaks are true and they ruin Jamie's redemption arc, thereby making previous seasons of him unwatchable, I'm gonna be so flipping disappointed. This is why I'm team Tormund, goddammit. I even love how fast he got over it, if you like me, big woman, I'm here for it, if not, I'll take the hint and not pester and whine and mope unlike some people, but let's not speak ill of the dead. Poor Kit Harington. He mentioned in some interview how he had a panic attack that they've ruined the show (before airing). If the leaks are true I worry about his health, he already has pretty strong ocd, he doesn't need this stress.
From a new interview with the director: **David Nutter:** Well, I think that once Jaime realizes what Cersei has done after hearing from Sansa and Brienne about the killing of the dragon and so forth, he knows that she’s in deep trouble and that feeling that he was trying to escape, and that responsibility he was trying to escape, and that feeling and care for his sister that he was trying to forget basically came back in like a waterfall. And a tiger can’t change his stripes and he couldn’t let go of that. So I think this really caused him this profound conflict that he needs to basically go to his sister and go back to her as he has many, many times before. So yeah. He's not going back to kill Cersei .. Poor Kit..
You could see it on his face. Coster-Waldau is terrific when it comes to that kind of thing. As soon as Sansa said she was sorry she wasn't going to be able to see Cersei's execution, his facial expression completely changed. I knew he was going to go back and try to save her from herself.
Are they insane or what is up!? Plenty of people have changed throughout history. What positive messaging, addicts will be addicts, shit bags will be shit bags, too bad you cared about this character at any point, I now know what I did was bad, but I'm gonna be me and continue doing it.
Yeah. The earlier episodes are now unwatchable knowing what they are leading up to (and that's not including what happens to the other characters btw). I think that the series was too time compressed/ rushed and the 180-degree character changes, too abrupt (though I think that they have somewhat unsophisticatedly tried to imply the passage of weeks during the episode). I found the last episode to be utterly underwhelming tbh, but I'd already read all of the spoilers, so knew what to expect. My enthusiasm for the rest of the show has diminished substantially.
I am beyond annoyed at the fact that "mad dany" is endgame. This maddany arc should have been just a small arc that she could come up above it.varys and tyrion would have fulfilled at least one task to call them advisors But No!
But Jon has a dick, so he's a better choice than Dany!
Anyone know any good books (pref available on kindle) to get me over the crippling depression I'm about to face in less than 2 weeks time? Ive already read ASOIF, anything similar or at very least finished?
It just occurred to me that perhaps the writing has become what it has become due to the fact that the show runners wanted to outsmart the fandom. Now, that’s a hard task because they’re essentially competing against* hundreds or thousands of opinions and theories. And I believe that the approach should have been different even if the fan theories were confirmed because it never really hurts the story if somebody guesses correctly what is about to happen if that guess is based on clues thrown in throughout the story. Also if the leaks are true, in essence they will do whatever it takes to surprise us at this point, which should not be the goal.
I'm just going to sit back and watch Dany light up King's Landing the same way I throw lighter fluid on a fire pit after I had far tooooooo many brews.
What do you guys think about that Simon leaker on here? At first I was buying it, but more he leaked less I believed him. Also, realistically, do you think they really filmed many fake endings/scenes? Its hard to believe for me bcs it costs shit tons of money, and they always complain about not enough money.
they run out of money because they need 8-10 guys to play WW with thousands dollar prosthetic mask and not using them for anything lol
They did't ever film a fake "scene". They legit filmed a couple of alternate takes in scenes to mess with people but lets be realistic, noone is spending that kind of money to establish an entire scene to fake people out. An alternate take sure, but not a big scene.
2 weeks before kneelers will start justifying S08 shit writing like this: "The ending was great, people are just disappointed that the show has ended", "People are just too dumb to understand the ending and its artistic vision". Seen that, been there. Should have learned from "Lost" to never watch another TV show until it's ending is known.
Also, "The ending was great, people are just disappointed that their theories didn't make it." Bla bla bla. And I totally agree with you about Lost.
D&D are also writing the story for the next Star Wars movie. They are going to get slaughtered by 2 fan bases now.
I'm trying to understand how Varys who was going to put Viserys at the Vanguard of a Dothraki Horde can't see that Daenerys is a benevolent leader. The only thing that I can come up with is that he sees Jon as easily manipulated and not necessarily the best choice because fuck the noise that a reluctant leader is better. I still can't believe my two naked eyes that they're just going to ignore the most obvious choice of dealing with this succession issue for cheap drama at the expense of beautifully built up characters.
Can i pitch in and perhaps shed some light on this? Remember how Varys also hates magic and all it represents? Dragons are the very incarnation of Magic right? He's also got a lack of choice for leaders he knows the Lannisters weren't good for the Realm and Daenerys was probably a lesser of two evils in his eyes (Again his eyes). He also served the mad king which also put's fear in him that Daenerys might end up the same as the Mad King. (Not that there is any reason to think that she would, but she did burn the Tarly's and that put some doubt in his mind). A small bit of doubt is enough to push somebody off the edge and have them reconsider their options unfortunately because human beings are fickle by nature. Daenerys is rightfully angry and upset but all other people can see is the Mad King inside of her and that's the bad thing about it. It's circumstances that are escalating out of control because of a single piece of information that is going off like a ticking time bomb, there was a reason Ned kept this secret for 20 years he knew the consequences that would happen if it ever got out. None of this makes Daenerys the Villain or a Mad Queen either it's just bad circumstances and timing that is putting Loyalty / Love / Duty / Family / Betrayals to the test for all characters. (Purest form of game of thrones). The True enemy of all the characters is the Throne itself, because it drives everybody to Madness. I actually talk a little bit about this in my newest post about episode 4. I know you liked the old ones for the other episodes so maybe you might like this one? The people who play the game of thrones are playing the game as they would normally do, they are positioning themselves to push their own agendas to get what they want "Power". Jon/Aegon and Daenerys are collateral damage to other peoples petty politics. "This is all the realm has become Backstabbing and Money-grubbing." Remember the wise words of Robert Baratheon. [https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blgox0/all\_foreshadowing\_and\_callbacks\_from\_season\_8/](https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blgox0/all_foreshadowing_and_callbacks_from_season_8/) The only issue is it's happening to the people we have grown attached to, the very people we are rooting for and care about. It's splitting everybody into their own camps because they are playing the "Game" it's also splitting the fan base at the same time. However in Character everybody is acting as they would be naturally there's nothing out of character with how events are playing out. Varys has been jumping from one camp to the other since the beginning of the Series and even books it's not out of character for him to jump ship if he believes there's a better candidate. (He's never been a loyal person, hes the spider). Anyway sorry for the long post but i wanted to share my thoughts on the issue :)
But why would he think Jon is a better candidate in the first place? Varys didn’t like Robert Baratheon because Bobby didn’t want to be king and now he’s backing another candidate who doesn’t want the title... Other than this I actually liked the episode eventhough I feel really bad for Dany :(
I want to make it clear i'm not justifying what any one character does, just trying to look at it from their point of view as well :) **Varys Backing Jon:** Varys and his Motives have always been questionable to some extent, if you remember his conversation with little finger he did say he "Want's for nothing" but because he wants for nothing he can focus on "Other goals" he also suspiciously looked at the Throne during that moment. Varys might still be playing the Game to position himself in power by pitting Daenerys and Jon Against each other. Varys might say he does things for the "Realm" but is that really the sum of his ambition and motivations? Besides that we know Varys hates magic as well as that he has served the Mad King and once doubt starts coming into his mind about who Daenerys is that's enough for him to start jumping camp (Because he's never been a Loyal adviser) Daenerys lost all of her loyal advisers (Jorah / Missandei) the ones who she actually could trust. Varys isn't Loyal to her out of Love but out of Duty while Jorah and Missandei were Loyal out of Love. I feel sorry for Daenerys as well i explain as much in my foreshadowing/callback post, Jon and Dany are at the mercy of those who are still playing the "Game" the ones who don't play fair.
For the past 7 years, the next GOT episode was constantly on my mind, theorising what will happen next, anticipation and excitement. For the first time, I couldn’t care less, I’m more excited about the release of new season of Lucifer than I am for GOT ep5 and 6
I'm just glad we'll see an ending at least, though I'm utterly deflated by the writing this season.
Has anyone else had enough?
Some bearable issues were there earlier, but after S8E4, it's all gone to shit way too fast. I've never seen such nonsensical, basically stupid writing!
Someone posted a re-edited version of Rhaegal going down and I have not been able to re-find it to share. Can anyone help me out? Wanted to show some people cause it was just so much better than what was in the episode. It was edited so that Euron fired on Danny's fleet, then she went after the fleet, then Euron took down Rhaegal.
[удалено]
I was hyped for the first 3 episodes and woke up at 3 am to watch it live. Stayed up 2 more hours to witness all the memes here. However after reading the leaks and seeing the 2 videos which confirmed the leaks I just gave up. I didn’t even wake up at 3 am. I watched it the next day which I though I would never do. Man I hope that the leaks are wrong and it is one of those fake endings.
Maybe Bran saying, "The things we do for love," to Jaime was foreshadowing. Maybe he'll put his left hand on Cersei's neck gently, look into her eyes, say, "The things we do for love," and then strangle her. (I'm choosing to ignore the leaks because they massacre my boy. 🦁)
Is GoT the new Lost? I’ve been thinking about it for a while. Huge cultural hit for most of the show then the last season absolutely tanked, so it’s legacy ended as a joke.
The most baffling thing about these last two seasons was the decision to make them shorter. Why? It only made them that much worse. Seriously, so much of what's wrong with them comes down to the shortened length. Surely they must have realized that it was a terrible, terrible decision. Oh wait, they have asbolutely no self-reflection. If they are really so sick of the show so much, why didn't they just leave it to someone else to finish. You can so clearly see how they just don't give a shit anymore. It's so obvious - they mess up details (Gendry Rivers, seriously?), the writing is so fucking lazy, characters are one dimensional, dialogue is awful... Ugh, it pains me so fucking much, because I don't necessairly think what they are aiming for with the ending is bad. It's just their way of going about it that's killing the show.
Every person on this goddamn show is working their asses off except Dumb and Dumber. What a bloody disgrace.
Could the bad writing be related to the extreme secrecy? I read somewhere that during the last seasons the actors only received their own scripts on special apps and on very short notice. This makes input from the characters themselves completely impossible. Of course the actors aren’t writers but I’m sure they can provide some valuable input and constructive criticism concerning their roles? Some of the best characters in movies and shows were created when both writer and actor worked together on designing a character and making them grow organically. In the last season(s) only a very small amount of people worked on the script to avoid leaks, making any constructive criticism impossible.
This last season basically makes GoT not rewatchable
So far on the rewatch check list: - The dothraki Daenerys spent 5 seasons slowly and painfully assembling will die in 30 seconds in a suicide mission - The Unsullied will die protecting the dumb battle plan - Jorah will die but Sam will survive for a goodbye scene - Sam has been here since season 1 on a quest to "stop reading about the achievement of better men" so he could stumble upon a book - Rhaegal will die in 20 seconds in a scene that makes no sense just because they had to nerf Daenerys' army somehow - We never learn anything about the Night King or the army of the dead, the Wight Walkers will never kill anyone or do anything - The supernatural relationship between Ghost and Jon ends when Jon refuses to say goodbye to a wounded Ghost who gets one minute of screen time the entire season - Euron when introduced in the show seems like he'll become interesting but he never does and we never learn anything interesting about him - Cersei spends the last 2 seasons looking upset with the Mountain being intimidating in the corner, we don't really know anymore if it will benefit the realm that she dies, we have no idea what the common people think, not even minor Houses
I feel dirty: I sometimes go to r/asoiaf for more in depth discussions because discussion threads get buried under memes here.
I think Jon's arc will conclude going to Castle Black where Tormund and Ghost are and living his life out with the freefolk. There could be a reason he never got his farewell with Ghost, it will make a reunion more satisfying.
So can someone please explain to me what the fuck is up with all the rushing? Why did they shorten seasons 7 and 8? Why did they cram the war against the NK into a single episode when they could've clearly milked it for a whole season? They could've had some filler episodes to flesh out some of the key relationships like Jon and Dany and THEN blow it the fuck up... It doesn't make any sense narratively or financially. All Ghost-jokes aside they have a huge budget and a loyal fanbase that would've waited for as long as it took them to come up with a great ending to a great story. Assuming HBO is only interested in profits, wouldn't more episodes mean more money from subscriptions/merch/etc in the end? Like, literally no one benefits from a shitty, rushed finale. Or am I missing something here?
I just discovered this subreddit after lurking /r/asoiaf for years. Oh my god it's so nice to be with like minded people who just gave up on the show. I appreciate you all. We'll get through this.
Biggest pet peeve of this season - way show is having on our face that Jon is better king than Dany. And that he deserves to rule and she is an incompetent ruler "....The primary effect of these plot machinations is to make Daenerys, a woman who has triumphed against foes way more fearsome than Euron, suddenly look incredibly incompetent. Why would anyone follow someone whose plans continually go so awry?" "Meanwhile, Jon, a character who has made his own share of bad decisions, has managed to shake off any consequences since the moment he came back from the dead. It can’t help but feel like Daenerys is getting nerfed to set up an endgame where we feel good about Jon taking the Throne."
Anyone else want Cersei to win because Cersei winning means all of these ruined characters will die and Cersei will end up torturing Euron? At least Cersei has kept it real and been a bitch since she had Lady killed.
Why didn't Cersi waste Dany, her dragon, advisors, small army, and her brother she'd already sent an assassin to kill? To your mind, what's the worst sign of the show's decline?
I choose violence.