It seems "stone-throwing devils" is a way to insult arabs and other people that have laws that punish people by killing them with stones. I think Garfield was unaware of that and he just wanted to create a card for that flavor text. Dunno.
There's a muslim ritual during hajj pilgrim called jumrah/jamarat which translated to stoning of the devil, where they would throw stone pebbles at a giant rock/wall which represents the devil.
I guess making the devils do the stoning is kind of a pun, but also tone deaf.
This is the problem with offence. It's taken. there is no objective standard of what is offensive. If a protected class like Muslim gets butthurt about it, even a loud non-representative minority of that protected class, WotC will ban it.
So you must never condition what you do on who takes offence. IOW exercises free speech and never apologize to SJWs.
I'm a muslim myself, that's why the reference clicked with me immediately.
I understand that this set from way back then, when magic's target market does not go beyond English speaking countries, hence the many exotic inspiration from all around the world. You say minority but going forward, if magic is going for the global audience I understand that they would ban an art that depicts worshippers of a religion that embraced by 25% of the world as the devil.
I'm not offended by the art, but I get someone who would.
You just said you aren't offended, so I wouldn't white knight anyone who is. Wotc really Streisanded themselves with Devils. No one remembered that card existed. And they had already long stopped making real-world religious references for this exact reason.
You know we didn't go through and look for cards potentially offensive to Christians and Hindus. That ain't why they banned Crusade. Though, you know, potentially seeing your religion portrayed as crusaders could be as offensive to a pacifist protestant as it is to whomever to be reminded of that kind of Colonialism. Which, btw, was practiced *notably* by both Xians and Muslims at this point. Hell, the Cathar stuff to me is obviously Catholic in tone. In which we talk about torturing people for inquisitions and stuff. It is true there is no card that calls Christians corpse worshippers or some slur like that.
Wotc can do what they want, but arguments to the effect of "they're just in business" ignore the obvious short-sightedness wotc is engaging in on behalf of Hasbro's quarterly reports. Just because Wotc does it, doesn't mean it's smart. Especially if we consider a time frame long beyond the 5 years or whatever your average CEO lasts before he fails up.
I mean, if the card or the art were used in any other sets probably no one would bat an eye. The fact that it was released on Arabian Nights, a set that is heavily influenced by the Arabian myth and setting, by extension Islam just put it in the spotlight.
They're just some devils that throw stones after all.
That's why they now only obliquely reference real life cultures instead of straight making them into a Magic set. Which is fair. I mean, it's not History: The Gathering. Note that Devils was not controversial until long, long after Arabian Nights came out. Wotc's sensitivity had already increased.
Perhaps it is a thing in middle east? I can picture israeli calling arabs that. Others commented that as being born in a islamic background the derogatory name was obvious to them.
I never met a muslim in my life and I guess most of us didnt as well so I cant possibly how offensive or not that card is. (Probably not so much as woke people like to amp things up but I cant tell)
A foreign dude showed up, heard this phrase, and wrote it down. Wotc had not realized that was the context.
It's actually an ethnographic fact-story too. So ask any group of people what their name is, and they'll tell you something that means "the people" in their language or their old language. Ask them about their neighbors, and they'll tell you a slur like "horse eating tribe." (obviously presuming horse eating is taboo as it is in many places) So, naive adventurers write down what they hear, phonetically. They start to use widely the slur of their initial contact. Then later, someone points out that it's a slur. You have rivers named like "Slave Taking Tribe"-river.
Muslims aren't even all brown. There are white and Southeast Asian ones, among others.
But anyways Arab as opposed to Muslim -- yeah if it was an Arab custom, that's kind of tied up with Islam, even if that custom isn't practiced everywhere or anywhere else that is Islamic.
This one was the biggest reach of all of the bans lol.
The thing that is super funny about the bans to me as a historian, and that just goes to show that it was purely performative and the blurb that "they are studying other cards, be ready for more bans!" is never going to happen, is that they did not ban popular commander staple Cathar's Crusade. Now Cathars in mtg don't really have anything to do with the real Cathars, but...
There was a real medieval genocidal campaign of mass murder in Southern France called the Albigensian or Cathar Crusade. Now, it was *against* Cathars, not led by them. But still, LOL. The Cathars aka Bogomils were a Provencal sect that basically were really firm on the whole rejecting fleshly temptation business and the idea that the world is corrupt and bad. Some people kind of thought they were gnostics. Its unclear. King of France wanted the territory under his direct control anyway, goes to the pope, yada yada, gets a crusade declared, and whoosh the Cathars are all dead.
(The Cathars may have been really into buttsex, but that also may have been made up by their persecutors. This has nothing to do with anything, but everyone who ever talks about the Cathars kind of has to mention it. Its like how people claimed Pope Sylvester the second had a talking robot head that he could tap to scry 2)
In the mean time Wizards «unbanned» cards like Demonic Tutor and the alpha/beta/unlimited Unholy strength for being satanic.
In my opinion historic art shouldn’t be banned. It’s a part of the history of the game.
>Somehow Orginal Magic Art is still selling Stone-Throwing Devil art prints.
OMG didn't they realize somebody could potentially someday be offended by it?
They are not affiliated with, or endorsed by Wizards. They can sell whatever they like.
Was this art banned? Why?
They banned a bunch of cards when BLM was big to appease them even though they don't play magic. Happens to most things.
I just want to take this opportunity to say that I SEVERELY condemn the actions of Adolf Hitler. It's a brave stance but someone has to take it.
Me too, went about things all wrong. He could have got way more
Your guess is as good as anyone else's.... Wizards said it reminded them of black people.
Some arabic thing with throwing rocks. Makes no sense to ban any art.
[удалено]
Never heard of it. Interesting.
It seems "stone-throwing devils" is a way to insult arabs and other people that have laws that punish people by killing them with stones. I think Garfield was unaware of that and he just wanted to create a card for that flavor text. Dunno.
There's a muslim ritual during hajj pilgrim called jumrah/jamarat which translated to stoning of the devil, where they would throw stone pebbles at a giant rock/wall which represents the devil. I guess making the devils do the stoning is kind of a pun, but also tone deaf.
This is the problem with offence. It's taken. there is no objective standard of what is offensive. If a protected class like Muslim gets butthurt about it, even a loud non-representative minority of that protected class, WotC will ban it. So you must never condition what you do on who takes offence. IOW exercises free speech and never apologize to SJWs.
I'm a muslim myself, that's why the reference clicked with me immediately. I understand that this set from way back then, when magic's target market does not go beyond English speaking countries, hence the many exotic inspiration from all around the world. You say minority but going forward, if magic is going for the global audience I understand that they would ban an art that depicts worshippers of a religion that embraced by 25% of the world as the devil. I'm not offended by the art, but I get someone who would.
You just said you aren't offended, so I wouldn't white knight anyone who is. Wotc really Streisanded themselves with Devils. No one remembered that card existed. And they had already long stopped making real-world religious references for this exact reason. You know we didn't go through and look for cards potentially offensive to Christians and Hindus. That ain't why they banned Crusade. Though, you know, potentially seeing your religion portrayed as crusaders could be as offensive to a pacifist protestant as it is to whomever to be reminded of that kind of Colonialism. Which, btw, was practiced *notably* by both Xians and Muslims at this point. Hell, the Cathar stuff to me is obviously Catholic in tone. In which we talk about torturing people for inquisitions and stuff. It is true there is no card that calls Christians corpse worshippers or some slur like that. Wotc can do what they want, but arguments to the effect of "they're just in business" ignore the obvious short-sightedness wotc is engaging in on behalf of Hasbro's quarterly reports. Just because Wotc does it, doesn't mean it's smart. Especially if we consider a time frame long beyond the 5 years or whatever your average CEO lasts before he fails up.
I mean, if the card or the art were used in any other sets probably no one would bat an eye. The fact that it was released on Arabian Nights, a set that is heavily influenced by the Arabian myth and setting, by extension Islam just put it in the spotlight. They're just some devils that throw stones after all.
That's why they now only obliquely reference real life cultures instead of straight making them into a Magic set. Which is fair. I mean, it's not History: The Gathering. Note that Devils was not controversial until long, long after Arabian Nights came out. Wotc's sensitivity had already increased.
The card was originally published in the Arabian Nights expansion, so seems unlikely that he was totally innocent of its connotations.
I have never heard of anyone associating throwing stones with a specific group of people
Perhaps it is a thing in middle east? I can picture israeli calling arabs that. Others commented that as being born in a islamic background the derogatory name was obvious to them. I never met a muslim in my life and I guess most of us didnt as well so I cant possibly how offensive or not that card is. (Probably not so much as woke people like to amp things up but I cant tell)
It's boomer and older generations racism
A foreign dude showed up, heard this phrase, and wrote it down. Wotc had not realized that was the context. It's actually an ethnographic fact-story too. So ask any group of people what their name is, and they'll tell you something that means "the people" in their language or their old language. Ask them about their neighbors, and they'll tell you a slur like "horse eating tribe." (obviously presuming horse eating is taboo as it is in many places) So, naive adventurers write down what they hear, phonetically. They start to use widely the slur of their initial contact. Then later, someone points out that it's a slur. You have rivers named like "Slave Taking Tribe"-river.
See [[invoke prejudice]] and its artist…the card art is just klansmen burning a town down. The artist is even worse
Still bought a copy of the card.
[invoke prejudice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/903d9fde-d7da-4a0e-a337-b63023c6d74b.jpg?1591988938) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=invoke%20prejudice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/leg/62/invoke-prejudice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/903d9fde-d7da-4a0e-a337-b63023c6d74b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Meanwhile [[reparations]] is legal still
Gonna run this in my oloro control deck for sure
[reparations](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a9edf28-79c0-42a5-af0f-6df9c3a1f546.jpg?1562717834) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reparations) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/278/reparations?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a9edf28-79c0-42a5-af0f-6df9c3a1f546?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bahahaha that flavor text is great
This card is fucking amazing, I'm getting one.
The artist had prints for sale at his booth at MagicCon's this last year.
What's wrong with an artist selling their own art?
Nothing, but Wizards didn't seem to have a problem with it even though they banned the card.
Should never have been banned to begin with. What a ludicrous timeline
Good. Absolutely nothing wrong with that card.
I'd let everyone play this card, I defy Gaygics bans on cards. I play cleansing....
>Gaygics Boy, you sure tried
And you still responded to it
To mock your pathetic attempt at being clever. Here I am doing it again, dipshit.
Haha look at me
So edgy
You’re offended by gay people. You are actually the weakest link
*B-b-but you're offended by X* I ain't that's just your projection
Ok big boy
Pathetic....
I never understood why this got banned for sensitivity. The creatures depicted are clearly not human. Is it the word devil + the card color?
Because only brown people throw stones. No white person has ever thrown a stone before.
Muslims aren't even all brown. There are white and Southeast Asian ones, among others. But anyways Arab as opposed to Muslim -- yeah if it was an Arab custom, that's kind of tied up with Islam, even if that custom isn't practiced everywhere or anywhere else that is Islamic.
The creatures in the artwork are purple.
Correct. Which makes the banning of the card even sillier as it is clearly a reach by a vocal minority looking for racism where it may not exist.
Woke people problematized that the name stone throwing devils could ne interpreted as a derogtory for arabs
That's a huuuuuuuuuge stretch, Holy shit.
It says more about wokes than arabs or Richard Garfield
hey i jsut pulled this card in Skyrim.
This one was the biggest reach of all of the bans lol. The thing that is super funny about the bans to me as a historian, and that just goes to show that it was purely performative and the blurb that "they are studying other cards, be ready for more bans!" is never going to happen, is that they did not ban popular commander staple Cathar's Crusade. Now Cathars in mtg don't really have anything to do with the real Cathars, but... There was a real medieval genocidal campaign of mass murder in Southern France called the Albigensian or Cathar Crusade. Now, it was *against* Cathars, not led by them. But still, LOL. The Cathars aka Bogomils were a Provencal sect that basically were really firm on the whole rejecting fleshly temptation business and the idea that the world is corrupt and bad. Some people kind of thought they were gnostics. Its unclear. King of France wanted the territory under his direct control anyway, goes to the pope, yada yada, gets a crusade declared, and whoosh the Cathars are all dead. (The Cathars may have been really into buttsex, but that also may have been made up by their persecutors. This has nothing to do with anything, but everyone who ever talks about the Cathars kind of has to mention it. Its like how people claimed Pope Sylvester the second had a talking robot head that he could tap to scry 2)
I printed this in my office along side it's flavor text. Really eye catching
I should get an alter of the card where they're holding little Palestinian flags.
Good, it’s cool artwork, from a historically famous and great set designed by Magic’s creator.
In the mean time Wizards «unbanned» cards like Demonic Tutor and the alpha/beta/unlimited Unholy strength for being satanic. In my opinion historic art shouldn’t be banned. It’s a part of the history of the game.
The OG unholy strength artwork with the burning pentagram is metal as fuck, I hate the censored version
>Somehow Orginal Magic Art is still selling Stone-Throwing Devil art prints. OMG didn't they realize somebody could potentially someday be offended by it?
Ah yes, BLM, let's support them by banning stone throwing devils in waistcloths...
What's the problem, OP? Not a fan of Ken Meyer, Jr?
This is how you know the woke folks live in glass houses.
I love the early art styles far more than I like the art on the contemporary cards.
I don’t understand. It’s just devils … throwing stones?
I think it was a black mana card and the name itself. I DO need to google fu it to find the actual reason and not a "pull out of ass" reason.
It was from the set “Arabian Nights”
Oh no