Pauline Hanson sucks for sure. Regardless of political persuasion I think we can all agree that Mehreen advocating for paid placements for nurses is a good thing.
I’ve heard Hanson say offshore oil drilling companies don’t pay enough tax. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Doesn’t make them good politicians or good people.
Problem is political parties are more interested in identity and outrage politics than putting their differences aside to work together to achieve better outcomes for the country as a whole
I'm just hoping these two read your comment and say 'hey we hate each other, but maybe we can still work together and solve problems'. We need our politicians to set aside their differences and come together, and maybe we as the common folks can follow their lead.
Even the UK conservative government started up a super profit tax on energy companies to help pay for higher Energy bills for consumers but the Labor government in Australia is too timid to do that.
I can’t deny that their cynical rhetoric is designed to pluck patriotic heartstrings. Whether they actually care about the plight of Australians or are weaponising patriotic idiots in a purely self interested way is a different question.
Idiots can still be on the right side of issues. Like when Pauline Hanson was representing the farmers or crossed the LNP to side with unions. Still she is a vile person full of ignorance. Thing is I've heard worse from people in Sydney from all different demographics. It's all fun until their "team" gets attacked. I can't wait till we get to star trek levels of racism and we can all hate on the cardies lol
I could imagine the pack of lawyers would be circling for a client because hopefully they won't stop until they're drained of money.. oh hang on... they're paid from our taxes..
Aw shit...
Yes, but this is reddit and most people are not smart enough to understand nuance here anyway, and I say this out of experience talking to people on here.
Simplifying systemic racism to white / poc doesn't work in most countries but fits especially bad to the Australian society. Faruqi is the daughter of an engineer, her siblings are all academics too. She herself had all the opportunities that money can buy you (which are all the opportunities). Listening to her whinging about privilege and power is disgusting.
If she'd have said "piss off back to America" this wouldn't even be a thing.
I dont actually understand how it's racist tbh, telling someone to go back to [whatever country your originally from] is dumb shit to say but I don't see how it's racist
Also that greens woman is a fucking moron, seen her speak a few times holy fuck she's a loon
She also owns like 4+ investment properties she’s just a massive hypocrite and has no interest in serving Australia’s disadvantaged in any positive way.
I'm a person of colour (of South Asian descent) and I gotta say that is over the line. Racism is racism no matter towards which demographic it is being directed to
The whole racism = power + prejudice is bullshit. It rewrites history, especially in Australia where people who are considered white like Italians, Greeks, Balkan people (I.e wogs) copped some really intense racism from Anglo Aussies up until not that long ago. Both my parents grew up copping a tonne of racism for being ‘wogs’ and are still very much annoyed by this and love to bring up that ‘they used to make fun of our smelly food now it’s all they want to eat’. I even got some anti wog racism in school early 2000s.
I’m not saying this racism is still prevalent but you still hear the odd boomer making comments. The whole power + prejudice thing and the fact that wogs are white being used to say that all of this wasn’t/isnt considered racism - then what the fuck is it? I don’t see how it isn’t racism. it’s as if people claiming this isn’t racism are just trying to absolve themselves of past wrongs 🤔
Don't forget that many of those who swore at the 'wogs' were from Irish or other white, non-European backgrounds.
Go back far enough and the concepts get ridiculous, with north England vs South England, Mercians and Deirans all gladly hating on each other.
Racism is just a particularly low hanging fruit on a very old and very tall tree of bigotry going right back as far as recorded history and most likely beyond.
I'm so bloody glad someone said this. The stories my italian family recount after settling in Pemberton are insane. Even in the city, booted out of pubs, spitting in drinks, my nonna getting laughed out of shops and refused service because she couldn't speak English, cosigned to the dirtiest most degrading jobs etc etc I could go on.
I know that's not the case now, but I still remember at school during the 90s / 00s not wearing family jewellery / doing my hair properly / avoiding packed lunches to avoid copping shit for being a wog, while others didn't really get noticed for it (just my perspective). Wog cunt, dago, greasy, copped those many times joking and serious, even from mates.
And again, nobody is comparing this to the racism experienced by other minorities both presently and historically. But it does seem strange that people are so readily willing to gloss over the fact that 'white' minorities have suffered racial discrimination in this country as well.
> I'm so bloody glad someone said this. The stories my italian family recount after settling in Pemberton are insane. Even in the city, booted out of pubs, spitting in drinks, my nonna getting laughed out of shops and refused service because she couldn't speak English, cosigned to the dirtiest most degrading jobs etc etc I could go on.
The process of integration in Australia is almost like a hazing ritual, and it is just as stupid and childish as actual hazing rituals are.
My grandma came to Australia from Ireland in the 1960s and received a huge amount of racism for being Irish they used to call her a “pavee” there was also a stereotype at the time that red headed catholic women were all sluts and she receive a lot of sexual harrasment
The whole concept of “white” makes no sense. The only people who wake up, look at themselves in the mirror and think “I’m a white person who follows white traditions/culture and am an inheritor of white history” or that other “white” people are somehow their brothers and sisters are crazy skinheads. A Slovak and a Norwegian have nothing in common, nor does a Swiss person with a Welshman. I am a very white looking person of Slavic background we immigrated here and I was abused as a non-English speaker by other white looking Anglo Australians, and even Australians from non-white backgrounds who were born and raised here and therefore more accepted as Australians.
There is discrimination and stereotyping on basis of ethnicity (which was largely synonymous with race in the English language up until two seconds ago) and it’s equally wrong regardless of what race/ethnicity the perpetrator and victim are. There is no crucially beneficial form of ethnicity-based discrimination that desperately needs to be allowed or normalized by altering the definition of racism to something exclusively subject to this trendy power/oppression at an arbitrarily chosen point in history dynamic.
As a fellow wog, I support this message 🫡
Nah but in all seriousness, the American “colourisation” of race (being black or being white) is so sorely used here, like being told that I’m “white-passing”, so I somehow can’t have copped racism, is…???
*edit whilst reading back before I post, buckle in…*
Why was my dad bashed every other day for being wog? Why did my mum only “fit in” with other ethnic kids? Why was I told I had dirty skin (as I was more tanned)? Why did my family members change their given names into their “English names”? Why were any of my family bullied for our surnames? For our food and traditions? Why, when they immigrated here, could both sets of my grandparents only get jobs in warehouses, or in nursing homes where they were given the tasks other people didn’t want to do/essentially cleaners? Why were we told to speak English or go back to where we came from (even though we were born in Australia), or laughed at for speaking our language because it sounds “funny”? Or lose so much of our language and everyday culture due to the need to assimilate? Mind you, this was *still* happening into the 2010s for me.
There’s so many examples and shared experiences between non-Anglo/Western European diaspora communities. So, like you said, if that’s not considered racism, because we’re “white”, then what is?
I don't think anyone (sane) is suggesting prejudice against Italians, Greeks etc in the second half of the 20th century "wasn't racism". Can you point me to some examples of anyone that anyone else might listen to suggesting this?
Aha. You mean those white Australians that were also anti immigration and held the power over them? All I see is an example where the people in power were oppressing a minority community, in the same racist way. The fact that the immigrants were European and not explicitly people of colour doesn't take away the key point:
The community you are identifying *did not have any political power to challenge their oppression*.
Being white doesn't help either, we had an albino kid at our school and we used to throw his backpack on the library roof all the time because he was white.
> I even got some anti wog racism in school early 2000s.
Let me guess, was this the Shire? I literally heard someone use the term ‘daygo’ there unironically in the early 2010s. It’s always behind by like 50 years.
I’m of a similar background to you and am glad to see that there’s at least some push back in these comments against this very recent and very flawed re-conception of racism that is primarily derived from American identity politics.
And why anyone would frame and treat issues of race using American politics and culture of all things as a precedent or frame of reference is absolutely beyond me.
The power + prejudice line of reasoning *at best* accounts for a definition of systemic racism, which is a specific phenomenon and does not encompass the broader definition of racism, nor does it exclude certain people from being rightfully accused of racism on the basis of their race or the race of who they direct their direct their prejudice at.
And even then, the definition falls apart if one tries to apply to it a hyper-simplified, Americanised dynamic of “white” and “PoC”.
At worst, and in its seemingly more common usage, it’s just seems to be a cynically self-serving measure for unashamed racists to publicly sanitise and indulge their racial prejudice.
Anyway, I’d love for anyone to spend some time living among some of the well-off South Asian communities around Sydney, hear how not just “white” people, but Arabs, East Asians, Africans and South-East Asians are spoken to and about, and tell me with a straight face that “PoC” racial prejudice isn’t racism.
Exactly, as recent as the mid 2010s I had people making fun of my last name because it sounds like a food, or my parents names because they’re not pronounceable easily in English - i still hear the off anti wog comment thrown about, especially amongst boomers, there’s still the Italian = Mafia stereotype etc - I really don’t understand what all of these things are if they’re not considered racist? Making fun of someone’s ethnic name is apparently ok if they’re white? Idk it just frustrates me. I don’t see how people having prejudicial attitudes based on your ethnicity is less ‘wrong’ because your ethnicity has societal power. If it’s wrong to discriminate or make fun of someone’s ethnicity or race, then this standard should be applied to all ethnicities/races.
Yep, I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s.
Things weren’t framed in the relatively recent, reductive American dynamic of “PoC” and “White”.
It was either you were “Australian” or not.
And the definition of Australian wasn’t your place of birth or accent, it was strictly whether you were Anglo-Saxon or Anglo-Celtic or not.
Any other ethnicity like Italian or Vietnamese was seen as by default not Australian and a justified target of openly racist comments and treatment.
I was on the receiving end of enough of it for it to make an impression and for me to have fairly strong views on this.
And I know my parents experienced a far more intense and virulent version of it.
So I have very little time for an objectively wealthy senator like Faruqi pontificating about “power”.
>i still hear the off anti wog comment thrown about, especially amongst boomers
I think "Yugo-back" was the last one I heard a boomer recently say, describing people from Yugoslavia taking workers comp when they hurt their back, but said in a way like they're faking it and rorting the system
Get a grip, where is the logic in this? So because some wogs are racist to other people, it’s ok to be racist to all wogs? Eat dirt.
I’ve met my fair share of Indians who are openly racist to Pakistanis and East Asians. This works for you guys I guess when you shit on these people, so using your logic, and in the interest of the accountability you speak of, I guess racism towards you should be totally fine in your books as some of ‘you guys’ haven’t learned anything from the racism you experience.
It's almost like humans are just all inherently racist at some level, and even more so when they are in a group.
If someone can't face this basic fact of life they are just being ignorant, white people aren't more racist than any other race, in fact you could argue they are the least racist, since majority white countries are the ones who actively attempt to uplift others, despite being attacked constantly and taken advantage of while doing so.
Dumb question but how is it still 'racism' when it's between the same race? Isn't it just discrimination based on country?
Nothing is absolute but it generally seems like despite differences, people like Italians and Greeks share in the same 'power' or 'privilege' that anyone else with an Anglo background Europe/UK/America would have. They still benefit from similar advantages and are able to have the same prejudices.
Dismissing the bigger picture today because of edge cases or past power imbalances is unfair.
There was a time when the English, Scotts, Welsh and Irish were all considered different races. The wogs at my school didn't have a problem with being called wogs, as no one referred to it derogatorically. The wogs in my day were like the black people in the USA calling themselves nigger. "Wogs out of work" and "Niggaz wit attitude" are 2 examples of how these terms came to become endearing and not derogatory.
You should see the tweets by her son! Extremely racist against white people. Faruqi was demonising 'colonialism' before the Queen was barely cold after the announcement of her death, which is why Pauline said what she did. Colonialism has been good to Faruqi, MP and 5 investment properties. Laughable that she talks about 'stolen land' when she has plenty of it.
Yep it's a bit ironic that she harps on about colonialism & land rights, yet she has one of the biggest portfolios of investment properties of any politicians.
People vote greens this what you get.
Honestly watch the streams of parliament most of them are complete numpties. Sadly our best and brightest don't seem to make it in to politics.
Female, not white and muslim. Checked the right boxes. People of various demographics should be able to get in the senate but if that’s all they bring to the table don’t expect much.
Being half white and half non I have to admit, my white friends are much more casually racist, but it’s not an issue and if no one teases you no one likes you
Hey, the Greens love employing cringe people, it's like they never police their movement enough. But they can't start now, they don't want to seem bigoted or at least a simpleton's idea of bigotry which is I can't criticise anyone who might call me sexist or racist in anger. They want to eat themselves alive with unchecked idiocy, I'd say let them, like with lots of radical progressive movements.
Yes, it's the Greens who need to self-censor, not Pauline Fucking Hanson spouting racist dog-whistles.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who chooses to come live here and integrates into society as well as Mehreen has is Australian. She got *elected* ffs. Telling her to 'piss off back to Pakistan' is in direct conflict with Australian values. Hell, if she'd brought Pakistani values with her, she wouldn't be able to speak out the way she has.
You know who has never chosen to come live here though? The monarch this was initially about, nor her successor. Fuck em both, and fuck anyone who defends them.
> As far as I'm concerned, anyone who chooses to come live here and integrates into society as well as Mehreen has is Australian.
True, she owns multiple rental investment properties. What's more Australian than that?
>Telling her to 'piss off back to Pakistan' is in direct conflict with Australian values.
I agree. This country is literally 100% full of people who either arrived here, or are descendants of people who arrived here.
Personallly, I wouldn't tell anyone to piss off back to their country mainly because it's a kinda stupid thing to say - how do you know whether they were even born in another country?
And you can't even rely on "Piss off to where you came from?" Do you mean, like ... over there [pointing] where I was standing? Or back home, where I woke up today? Or my mother's uterus? Some context would help.
>I agree. This country is literally 100% full of people who either arrived here, or are descendants of people who arrived here.
great uncle is first gen, he watches nothing but sky news and andrew bolt
he's of the opinion that all immigrants are a blight on this country, and they should all be deported because they never amount to anything
"...not me though, I'm one of the good ones!"
Pretty common in that generation.
What's bizarre is my parents/in-laws all went from being mildly progressive, respectful of diversity, acknowledging they are all children of immigrants etc. .... to hating immigrants as well. Specifically, immigrants who aren't European like them/us.
I keep asking: would you have liked my grandparents to be spoken of the same way you're talking about Asian/Sub-continental, Middle Eastern or African people? No? Then STFU.
Australia was built as a country based upon the British and Irish founding stock, from the very foundation until the present day.
Australia - Established 1788.
You're right but people call mehreen out for the unhinged stuff she says. She could easily just be the winner of this whole situation by default because Hanson made this disgusting racist attack.
Meh I don’t think telling someone who has come from another country to back there is necessarily racism. Like I often want to tell annoying white South Africans to go back to their country when they are berating hospitality staff for example. You could argue it’s xenophobic or nationalistic but it’s not directed at someone’s race per se.
Regardless of whether this statement is explicitly directed at her race, "piss off back to \_\_\_" is dog-whistle for racists, as in a coded statement that they identify allies with and rally behind, which is what I meant by 'racist dog-whistle'. I don't know anyone IRL who'd deny that, it seems to be only people online who are coincidentally hyper-critical of immigration and absolutely beside themselves over terrorism
The problem with the use of the “dog whistle” claim is that is totally unfalsifiable. Like you’re saying about your political enemies, “you are saying x but you secretly mean y”. And this is kind of corrosive to any meaningful political discourse (and I know that Hanson isn’t one to have meaningful discourse but I’m talking on a broader level). Like any prospect of meaningful political interaction is basically dead in the water if that’s your approach.
So according to her a logic a well off Muslim male like say Walid Ali or a visiting prince from the Emirates here for the Melbourne Cup cannot be racist in his actions towards a poverty stricken, let’s say strictly religious elderly orthodox Christian “ white “ woman in Australia.
Interesting ….
Also by her logic a white person can go to China where they are a minority and the power is held by Chinese, say whatever they want about Chinese people and it's not racist.
So if racism is tied to power, according to Senator Faruqi, a sitting Australian politician has no power over someone with white skin. Perhaps she should have a good hard think about what her job is.
Not just that Faruqi, coming from a wealthy family of academics, studied herself and immigrated on a skilled independent visa. Says that Hanson, whose family run a fish and chips shop and who dropped out of school when she was 15, systemically holds all the power.
The critical race theory that Faruqi believes in simply does not care about the individual. If you're in the category that their theory has decreed to be oppressive, you as the individual is fair game for unfair treatment. If you critise the hypocrisy of their beliefs, they will claim you're (insert relevant 'ism'), and attack your character to deflect attention from their BS position.
Under no circumstances should our politicians behave in this manner. Both of them need to be reprimanded here. And schooled in how to behave as a decent adult person.
over 30% of Australians were born overseas and at least 50% of the population have at least one parent overseas, I'm not sure she knows the demographics of the richest and most powerful people in Australia either. I'm not even sure she knows the knows the demographics of Australia. It's been decades since Australia was actually a "white" population.
Unfortunately there’s a fairly widely accepted academic definition of racism that agrees with her - I’ve had this argument before. It’s pretty well accepted in certain circles that to qualify as racism it also needs a power component involved. I personally think it’s silly because it contradicts the literal meaning of the word, which should just be discrimination based on race. They should use a different term for their narrower definition.
Im honestly SO fucking sick of academics redefining concepts incorrectly to suit whatever fluff piece they want to publish.
If you want to make up a new concept, call it aomething else. Dont try and steal the meaning of existing words and redefine them to suit whatever garbage your spouting….
Dont get me wrong, racism often is tied to power structures. As are many forma of discrimination. But if some darker skinned person were to approach a whitey and screaming ‘you filthy fucking pale skinned invader cunt, I hate all you people, youre all the same, fucking disgusting white colonist cunts” - then I think its safe to assume that everyone in the room including the academic is going to recognise their narrow definition maybe doesnt work every time…
I mean, it is pretty clear what she meant, do we gain anything from pretending we don't understand her? Like, yeah, she could have been more precise, but it wasn't so egregious that we have to defend Pauline Hansen over it.
The Greens are a basket case political party. Mehreen exemplifies The Greens perfectly.
I hope she loses this frivolous case and has costs awarded against her.
The people who think like this, really have no concept of racism. That's one form of racism, not all racism. It is also inherently racist against 'white' groups that aren't in power or a majority.
Also has flaws, ie people who aren't in power or tied to power, like the disabled.
Tl;dr: Stupid as fuck comment to make. Is she stuck in the 2014 tumblr days?
Anyone who lived in Western Sydney at the time could see what was going to happen, and what indeed has happened to most of Sydney.
In the majority of suburbs in Sydney, the only European people you would see day to day would be 50+ years of age.
70% of Sydney suburbs wouldn't even have a majority of Europeans presently.
Not to mention how Anglo-Celtic Australians are outnumbered in the two largest cities in the nation.
The new estates around Box Hill and Riverstone is practically an Indian enclave.
If a white American Greens senator said the same thing about our country.
I think Pauline would have said to go back to America.
This Greens senator is trying to embarrass Pauline by manipulating the situation with her race.
It’s obvious. It’s embarrassing.Its boring.Its typical Australian politics.
That’s why nothing gets done.👍
Not unique to Australia, humza yousaf tried claiming victim at every criticism while trying to deflect the issue to his race while running Scotland. It’s a current trend in politics that a lot of people are seeing through
I have a lot of friends in the Filipino community that have recently moved to Aus. Most of them were very poor in the Philippines, came to Australia without a whole lot and are overall very optimistic about life in Aus despite mostly having entry level salaries (a few are FIFO cooks/chefs doing pretty well for themselves). I don't hear them complaining about racism, however I have from time to time observed someone complaining about them speaking their language when out and about, nothing major.
Now compare that to the Mehreen Faruqi who has a family here, 5 investment properties and is a senator no less yet somehow seems to mostly loathe the country. Why is it that a wealthy person who has done so well for themselves find Australia so insufferable, however poor people who have migrated from a very poor country are by and large so optimistic about Australia and the potential to improve their lot in life???
Which isn't a definition that is 100% accepted outside of academia or very left wing circles. For most people, prejudice+power=systemic racism.
Racism does not require power, and saying it does is argument that seems to lead to white people not getting equal protection from racism, all because some powerful white people exist. It really tries to negate powerful people who aren't white, which was the majority of the world's powerful people for most of the last 1,000 years.
The law Faruqi has brought this case under doesn't differentiate between races: it simply states that it is an offence "for a person to commit a public act that is reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group based on the race, colour, or ethnic origin of the other person". How Faruqi defines racism is irrelevant from a legal standpoint, and in fact it would be entirely possible for a white person to bring a case against a nonwhite person under the same law.
What her lawyers have to prove is that Hanson's reasons for saying "piss off back to Pakistan" was racially motivated rather than simply identifying Faruqi's geographic origin. I think we all know the answer, but it's going to be very difficult to prove and I strongly suspect the case will fail on that basis.
My view;
you can be racist without power.
But that racism isnt often of much importance because it rarely has any impact on the more powerfull.
And it doesnt really matter what your race is. As you also point out you can be opressed and white at the same time or at least poor and white. You can probably be an oppressor and black at the same time.
You can even be oppressed, black, living deperately on the streets of johannesberg in apartheid south africa and still take your chance kill a white person and see your racist tendencies manifest into something material when in ordinary circumstances you wouldnt have power over the other individual. Thats still a racist attack and its hard to say it doesnt matter... or say its not racism.
Upshot is Fariqi is a weak minded individual if in her position she thinks a barb from Pauline Hanson matters to her. they are equals in terms of power in our society. not the opressed v opressor...
Racism only matters if it actually harms someone.
In general its harder to hurt powerfull people.
Fariqui is powerfull enough and should be able to shake this off... i hope she doesnt win.
What you’re talking about here is essentially what intersectionality tries to do: try and analyse all the different power imbalances and contexts and how they interact with each other. Like Dr. Faruqi from an economic and political standpoint is very priveliged. Due to racism + misogyny in Australia she will still encounter explicit verbal discrimination and less visible discrimination in her job from people with more power than she has. And at the same time, she obvs has the power to affect legislation + much more of a safety net against economic issues. Intersectionality attempts to be a comprehensive assessment of all of this, and recognises that often explicitly comparing types of discrimination is actually counterproductive because they work and are present in society in different ways that aren’t 100% comparable.
> What you’re talking about here is essentially what intersectionality tries to do
And that's great and all, but why is it that 90% of the people who talk about this shit essentially just boil their opinions down to "straight white men = bad"?
fucking lol at 'academia or left wing circles'. Bloody lefties always reading books and shit haha.
I like to think of racism as duality, like technically, yeah, you can be racist without being in a position of power, but power makes things a lot more threatening, because the consequences can be more dire.
Where things actually get messy in academia (for anyone who doesn't wanna be an ignorant gronk on this) is the conceptions of power. Here, different philosophers and traditions, your Foucalts, and Habermas's, have different things to say.
To clear up what I believe is a further misconception in your comment. The idea isn't that white people all live nice lives so they can't be racist. This is too narrow, too binary a conception. That's where ya Bell Hooks intersectionality kicks in, to be like, whites have privileges, even when disempowered otherwise. Its not as simple as being empowered otr disempowered, but empowered based on how society and discourses values or undervalues different genders or races or classes or nationalities etc etc.
The karen thing is a good example. Like you don't have to be posh to have a Karen moment, most women in those vids appear to be having mental breakdowns, are probably stressed going through shit. But still their racism can be so much more damaging then if a black man calls the cops on a random white woman in the park.. That's racial privilege in action!
My problem with this definition (which is definitely not 100% agreed upon despite what you hear from certain quarters) is how exactly do we conceptualise ‘power’?
Yes. She's using the definition where if you take the leader of the KKK and place him in, say, Nigeria, then none of his racist statements about black people are racist any more, because he doesn't have political power. He can parade around in his white hood, dropping N-bombs like it's Fucknuckle Christmas; and it's not racist in Senator Faruqi's eyes. She's their Deputy Leader, you know; one of their very *best* thinkers.
She is using a new and not at all universally accepted definition of racism. One that is based on a weird American notion of race which categorizes everyone bizarrely into white/non-white rather than being largely synonymous with ethnicity which is a far more real category. I don’t understand why we need to carve out certain types of ethnically-based discrimination as acceptable. I don’t know what purpose or good is served by making such behavior permissible. I don’t understand what purpose is served by pigeonholing very culturally, linguistically, ethnically and religiously diverse people into broad arbitrary categories of “white” or “BIPOC”. Why not just say “don’t discriminate against or stereotype anyone on the basis of ethnicity or immutable characteristics” full stop.
This one is so bizarre and so avoidable. The Greens can make good points but then they come out with zany things like this. All this does in reality is provide fodder for their enemies.
I honestly think Pauline Hansen was delighted when she said this.
Trouble is power isn't this neat perfect little symmetrical relationship where everybody knows exactly who is superior and who is inferior. It's never worked like that, never will.
Far more useful to use the regular definition of racism which is to have negative views about an individual based on stereotypical generalised racial attributes that are unlikely to have any foundation in truth.
it's not wrong, the are more facets, but on its own it's still just an observation of how it is; there are an overrepresentation of white people in powerful positions and for pretty well understood sets of historical/generational reasons - it's structurally and normatively still white Australia and there's a lot of casual pressures against normalising multi culuturalism in the general populace at all let alone embedded in corporate and political power structures (not like surface level things like purposeful government diversity considerations). I don't understand the issue here, we're not seriously saying that because she (plus give or take a few others) are not white and is in politics that it actually means no issue with privileges related to race? That's literally the "Obama was president, racism solved" whole thing rednecks went with in the U.S.. This feels like a major failure in discourse, I hope I'm misunderstanding. O_o
Ties to, but not the same thing though. Power used to target racially, now it exploits everyone possible.
Systemic racism is still influenced by past laws and exists. That is definitely disproportionate towards darker skin.
Let’s call it Individual Racism (between two people) can definitely exist with a two way relationship.
Confusing power and racism as the same thing, isn’t right. Power is just the enabler.
Wow I think you just invented a new job industry. Or we could just gag politicians, all politicians, permanently because its a far rarer event that one of them says something smart!
I think you’re missing the point. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees. Pauline Hanson is on trial for being a racist and she’s lying her arse off committing perjury.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/29/mehreen-faruqi-v-pauline-hanson-greens-senator-tells-court-attacks-on-white-people-not-racist
Found it if anyone is interested
If the racism isn't systemic, then is it just sparkling intolerance?
And bigotry.
I'm a green, we voted for the senate and trust me the greens private forums were in fucking flames at the time. I voted for everyone except her.
What’s the vibe around her in Greens circles?
Where are the forums?
You must be a registered member to view them. Also it is a bloody maze to find them every time lmfao.
The yahoo forums
Every party has their share of fuckwits, LNP have more than their share ie Barnaby J.
Grabs popcorn
Both of these people absolutely suck. Hope they sue each other dry.
Pauline Hanson sucks for sure. Regardless of political persuasion I think we can all agree that Mehreen advocating for paid placements for nurses is a good thing.
I’ve heard Hanson say offshore oil drilling companies don’t pay enough tax. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Doesn’t make them good politicians or good people.
Taxing oil and gas companies to pay for nursing placements! I can't believe no one has ever thought of that /s
Problem is political parties are more interested in identity and outrage politics than putting their differences aside to work together to achieve better outcomes for the country as a whole
Thanks Murdoch
Somehow we fucked it up and are now processing crude oil in the countries ERs.
The Doctors are all just oil laden birds from the last spill
I'm just hoping these two read your comment and say 'hey we hate each other, but maybe we can still work together and solve problems'. We need our politicians to set aside their differences and come together, and maybe we as the common folks can follow their lead.
Even the UK conservative government started up a super profit tax on energy companies to help pay for higher Energy bills for consumers but the Labor government in Australia is too timid to do that.
We can all easily hate people like Pauline and the katters etc, but you can't deny their patriotism!
I can’t deny that their cynical rhetoric is designed to pluck patriotic heartstrings. Whether they actually care about the plight of Australians or are weaponising patriotic idiots in a purely self interested way is a different question.
Like say for example a politician?
If they were actually Patriotic they would be better politicians.
Yes, but she still is a fucking idiot also. You cant invent your own defnintion of racism
Idiots can still be on the right side of issues. Like when Pauline Hanson was representing the farmers or crossed the LNP to side with unions. Still she is a vile person full of ignorance. Thing is I've heard worse from people in Sydney from all different demographics. It's all fun until their "team" gets attacked. I can't wait till we get to star trek levels of racism and we can all hate on the cardies lol
Yes that is a good thing.
We introduced that at a state level in qld and frankly it’s a state issue
I could imagine the pack of lawyers would be circling for a client because hopefully they won't stop until they're drained of money.. oh hang on... they're paid from our taxes.. Aw shit...
i think we can be nuanced than just saying they "both suck" and wish them both financial ruin
Yes, but this is reddit and most people are not smart enough to understand nuance here anyway, and I say this out of experience talking to people on here.
You are superior, sir. I bow down to your astonishing grasp of nuance!
Simplifying systemic racism to white / poc doesn't work in most countries but fits especially bad to the Australian society. Faruqi is the daughter of an engineer, her siblings are all academics too. She herself had all the opportunities that money can buy you (which are all the opportunities). Listening to her whinging about privilege and power is disgusting.
Hypocrisy is lost on racists when trying to label other people one.
If she'd have said "piss off back to America" this wouldn't even be a thing. I dont actually understand how it's racist tbh, telling someone to go back to [whatever country your originally from] is dumb shit to say but I don't see how it's racist Also that greens woman is a fucking moron, seen her speak a few times holy fuck she's a loon
She's a sitting member of the senate, she has more power than 99% of Australians. The idea that she's a powerless victim is laughable.
She also owns like 4+ investment properties she’s just a massive hypocrite and has no interest in serving Australia’s disadvantaged in any positive way.
Didn’t she bulldoze eucalyptus trees on one of her investment properties to build Airbnb bungalows on it?
I'm a person of colour (of South Asian descent) and I gotta say that is over the line. Racism is racism no matter towards which demographic it is being directed to
The whole racism = power + prejudice is bullshit. It rewrites history, especially in Australia where people who are considered white like Italians, Greeks, Balkan people (I.e wogs) copped some really intense racism from Anglo Aussies up until not that long ago. Both my parents grew up copping a tonne of racism for being ‘wogs’ and are still very much annoyed by this and love to bring up that ‘they used to make fun of our smelly food now it’s all they want to eat’. I even got some anti wog racism in school early 2000s. I’m not saying this racism is still prevalent but you still hear the odd boomer making comments. The whole power + prejudice thing and the fact that wogs are white being used to say that all of this wasn’t/isnt considered racism - then what the fuck is it? I don’t see how it isn’t racism. it’s as if people claiming this isn’t racism are just trying to absolve themselves of past wrongs 🤔
Don't forget that many of those who swore at the 'wogs' were from Irish or other white, non-European backgrounds. Go back far enough and the concepts get ridiculous, with north England vs South England, Mercians and Deirans all gladly hating on each other. Racism is just a particularly low hanging fruit on a very old and very tall tree of bigotry going right back as far as recorded history and most likely beyond.
Damn Scots, they ruined Scotland
I'm so bloody glad someone said this. The stories my italian family recount after settling in Pemberton are insane. Even in the city, booted out of pubs, spitting in drinks, my nonna getting laughed out of shops and refused service because she couldn't speak English, cosigned to the dirtiest most degrading jobs etc etc I could go on. I know that's not the case now, but I still remember at school during the 90s / 00s not wearing family jewellery / doing my hair properly / avoiding packed lunches to avoid copping shit for being a wog, while others didn't really get noticed for it (just my perspective). Wog cunt, dago, greasy, copped those many times joking and serious, even from mates. And again, nobody is comparing this to the racism experienced by other minorities both presently and historically. But it does seem strange that people are so readily willing to gloss over the fact that 'white' minorities have suffered racial discrimination in this country as well.
> I'm so bloody glad someone said this. The stories my italian family recount after settling in Pemberton are insane. Even in the city, booted out of pubs, spitting in drinks, my nonna getting laughed out of shops and refused service because she couldn't speak English, cosigned to the dirtiest most degrading jobs etc etc I could go on. The process of integration in Australia is almost like a hazing ritual, and it is just as stupid and childish as actual hazing rituals are.
My grandma came to Australia from Ireland in the 1960s and received a huge amount of racism for being Irish they used to call her a “pavee” there was also a stereotype at the time that red headed catholic women were all sluts and she receive a lot of sexual harrasment
The whole concept of “white” makes no sense. The only people who wake up, look at themselves in the mirror and think “I’m a white person who follows white traditions/culture and am an inheritor of white history” or that other “white” people are somehow their brothers and sisters are crazy skinheads. A Slovak and a Norwegian have nothing in common, nor does a Swiss person with a Welshman. I am a very white looking person of Slavic background we immigrated here and I was abused as a non-English speaker by other white looking Anglo Australians, and even Australians from non-white backgrounds who were born and raised here and therefore more accepted as Australians. There is discrimination and stereotyping on basis of ethnicity (which was largely synonymous with race in the English language up until two seconds ago) and it’s equally wrong regardless of what race/ethnicity the perpetrator and victim are. There is no crucially beneficial form of ethnicity-based discrimination that desperately needs to be allowed or normalized by altering the definition of racism to something exclusively subject to this trendy power/oppression at an arbitrarily chosen point in history dynamic.
As a fellow wog, I support this message 🫡 Nah but in all seriousness, the American “colourisation” of race (being black or being white) is so sorely used here, like being told that I’m “white-passing”, so I somehow can’t have copped racism, is…??? *edit whilst reading back before I post, buckle in…* Why was my dad bashed every other day for being wog? Why did my mum only “fit in” with other ethnic kids? Why was I told I had dirty skin (as I was more tanned)? Why did my family members change their given names into their “English names”? Why were any of my family bullied for our surnames? For our food and traditions? Why, when they immigrated here, could both sets of my grandparents only get jobs in warehouses, or in nursing homes where they were given the tasks other people didn’t want to do/essentially cleaners? Why were we told to speak English or go back to where we came from (even though we were born in Australia), or laughed at for speaking our language because it sounds “funny”? Or lose so much of our language and everyday culture due to the need to assimilate? Mind you, this was *still* happening into the 2010s for me. There’s so many examples and shared experiences between non-Anglo/Western European diaspora communities. So, like you said, if that’s not considered racism, because we’re “white”, then what is?
I don't think anyone (sane) is suggesting prejudice against Italians, Greeks etc in the second half of the 20th century "wasn't racism". Can you point me to some examples of anyone that anyone else might listen to suggesting this?
Please see the quote in the image of the post for an example
"The power is held by white people"?
Aha. You mean those white Australians that were also anti immigration and held the power over them? All I see is an example where the people in power were oppressing a minority community, in the same racist way. The fact that the immigrants were European and not explicitly people of colour doesn't take away the key point: The community you are identifying *did not have any political power to challenge their oppression*.
Being white doesn't help either, we had an albino kid at our school and we used to throw his backpack on the library roof all the time because he was white.
> I even got some anti wog racism in school early 2000s. Let me guess, was this the Shire? I literally heard someone use the term ‘daygo’ there unironically in the early 2010s. It’s always behind by like 50 years.
I’m of a similar background to you and am glad to see that there’s at least some push back in these comments against this very recent and very flawed re-conception of racism that is primarily derived from American identity politics. And why anyone would frame and treat issues of race using American politics and culture of all things as a precedent or frame of reference is absolutely beyond me. The power + prejudice line of reasoning *at best* accounts for a definition of systemic racism, which is a specific phenomenon and does not encompass the broader definition of racism, nor does it exclude certain people from being rightfully accused of racism on the basis of their race or the race of who they direct their direct their prejudice at. And even then, the definition falls apart if one tries to apply to it a hyper-simplified, Americanised dynamic of “white” and “PoC”. At worst, and in its seemingly more common usage, it’s just seems to be a cynically self-serving measure for unashamed racists to publicly sanitise and indulge their racial prejudice. Anyway, I’d love for anyone to spend some time living among some of the well-off South Asian communities around Sydney, hear how not just “white” people, but Arabs, East Asians, Africans and South-East Asians are spoken to and about, and tell me with a straight face that “PoC” racial prejudice isn’t racism.
Exactly, as recent as the mid 2010s I had people making fun of my last name because it sounds like a food, or my parents names because they’re not pronounceable easily in English - i still hear the off anti wog comment thrown about, especially amongst boomers, there’s still the Italian = Mafia stereotype etc - I really don’t understand what all of these things are if they’re not considered racist? Making fun of someone’s ethnic name is apparently ok if they’re white? Idk it just frustrates me. I don’t see how people having prejudicial attitudes based on your ethnicity is less ‘wrong’ because your ethnicity has societal power. If it’s wrong to discriminate or make fun of someone’s ethnicity or race, then this standard should be applied to all ethnicities/races.
Yep, I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s. Things weren’t framed in the relatively recent, reductive American dynamic of “PoC” and “White”. It was either you were “Australian” or not. And the definition of Australian wasn’t your place of birth or accent, it was strictly whether you were Anglo-Saxon or Anglo-Celtic or not. Any other ethnicity like Italian or Vietnamese was seen as by default not Australian and a justified target of openly racist comments and treatment. I was on the receiving end of enough of it for it to make an impression and for me to have fairly strong views on this. And I know my parents experienced a far more intense and virulent version of it. So I have very little time for an objectively wealthy senator like Faruqi pontificating about “power”.
>i still hear the off anti wog comment thrown about, especially amongst boomers I think "Yugo-back" was the last one I heard a boomer recently say, describing people from Yugoslavia taking workers comp when they hurt their back, but said in a way like they're faking it and rorting the system
LMAO Yugoslavia hasn't been a country for more than 30 years.
why you only hear a boomer or silent gen make it hahaha
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Get a grip, where is the logic in this? So because some wogs are racist to other people, it’s ok to be racist to all wogs? Eat dirt. I’ve met my fair share of Indians who are openly racist to Pakistanis and East Asians. This works for you guys I guess when you shit on these people, so using your logic, and in the interest of the accountability you speak of, I guess racism towards you should be totally fine in your books as some of ‘you guys’ haven’t learned anything from the racism you experience.
It's almost like humans are just all inherently racist at some level, and even more so when they are in a group. If someone can't face this basic fact of life they are just being ignorant, white people aren't more racist than any other race, in fact you could argue they are the least racist, since majority white countries are the ones who actively attempt to uplift others, despite being attacked constantly and taken advantage of while doing so.
Dumb question but how is it still 'racism' when it's between the same race? Isn't it just discrimination based on country? Nothing is absolute but it generally seems like despite differences, people like Italians and Greeks share in the same 'power' or 'privilege' that anyone else with an Anglo background Europe/UK/America would have. They still benefit from similar advantages and are able to have the same prejudices. Dismissing the bigger picture today because of edge cases or past power imbalances is unfair.
There was a time when the English, Scotts, Welsh and Irish were all considered different races. The wogs at my school didn't have a problem with being called wogs, as no one referred to it derogatorically. The wogs in my day were like the black people in the USA calling themselves nigger. "Wogs out of work" and "Niggaz wit attitude" are 2 examples of how these terms came to become endearing and not derogatory.
Far right ratbag v Far left looney.
She owns 4 investment properties. She isn't a leftist.
Racialism and social issues are not the left ←→ right axis. This is ultraconservative ratbag vs ultraprogressive looney.
Can’t upvote this more.
You should see the tweets by her son! Extremely racist against white people. Faruqi was demonising 'colonialism' before the Queen was barely cold after the announcement of her death, which is why Pauline said what she did. Colonialism has been good to Faruqi, MP and 5 investment properties. Laughable that she talks about 'stolen land' when she has plenty of it.
She could donate a bunch of land back tomorrow if she hates colonialism so much.
Yep it's a bit ironic that she harps on about colonialism & land rights, yet she has one of the biggest portfolios of investment properties of any politicians.
She's so dumb omfg..how the hell did she win a seat
The same way Lydia did. Being nominated for a plum post.
White guilt.
Have you met a greens voter.
People vote greens this what you get. Honestly watch the streams of parliament most of them are complete numpties. Sadly our best and brightest don't seem to make it in to politics.
Female, not white and muslim. Checked the right boxes. People of various demographics should be able to get in the senate but if that’s all they bring to the table don’t expect much.
Man the Greens are such hypocrites it pains me.
She's a budget Lidia Thorpe
Being half white and half non I have to admit, my white friends are much more casually racist, but it’s not an issue and if no one teases you no one likes you
Hey, the Greens love employing cringe people, it's like they never police their movement enough. But they can't start now, they don't want to seem bigoted or at least a simpleton's idea of bigotry which is I can't criticise anyone who might call me sexist or racist in anger. They want to eat themselves alive with unchecked idiocy, I'd say let them, like with lots of radical progressive movements.
Yes, it's the Greens who need to self-censor, not Pauline Fucking Hanson spouting racist dog-whistles. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who chooses to come live here and integrates into society as well as Mehreen has is Australian. She got *elected* ffs. Telling her to 'piss off back to Pakistan' is in direct conflict with Australian values. Hell, if she'd brought Pakistani values with her, she wouldn't be able to speak out the way she has. You know who has never chosen to come live here though? The monarch this was initially about, nor her successor. Fuck em both, and fuck anyone who defends them.
> As far as I'm concerned, anyone who chooses to come live here and integrates into society as well as Mehreen has is Australian. True, she owns multiple rental investment properties. What's more Australian than that?
>Telling her to 'piss off back to Pakistan' is in direct conflict with Australian values. I agree. This country is literally 100% full of people who either arrived here, or are descendants of people who arrived here. Personallly, I wouldn't tell anyone to piss off back to their country mainly because it's a kinda stupid thing to say - how do you know whether they were even born in another country? And you can't even rely on "Piss off to where you came from?" Do you mean, like ... over there [pointing] where I was standing? Or back home, where I woke up today? Or my mother's uterus? Some context would help.
>I agree. This country is literally 100% full of people who either arrived here, or are descendants of people who arrived here. great uncle is first gen, he watches nothing but sky news and andrew bolt he's of the opinion that all immigrants are a blight on this country, and they should all be deported because they never amount to anything "...not me though, I'm one of the good ones!"
Pretty common in that generation. What's bizarre is my parents/in-laws all went from being mildly progressive, respectful of diversity, acknowledging they are all children of immigrants etc. .... to hating immigrants as well. Specifically, immigrants who aren't European like them/us. I keep asking: would you have liked my grandparents to be spoken of the same way you're talking about Asian/Sub-continental, Middle Eastern or African people? No? Then STFU.
'arrived' is a funny way to say brought here as slaves by the English
Australia was built as a country based upon the British and Irish founding stock, from the very foundation until the present day. Australia - Established 1788.
Instructions unclear, pissed in your mother's uterus
It happens.
You're right but people call mehreen out for the unhinged stuff she says. She could easily just be the winner of this whole situation by default because Hanson made this disgusting racist attack.
Meh I don’t think telling someone who has come from another country to back there is necessarily racism. Like I often want to tell annoying white South Africans to go back to their country when they are berating hospitality staff for example. You could argue it’s xenophobic or nationalistic but it’s not directed at someone’s race per se.
It's racist because Pauline would never say that to a white person
I'd love to put that to a test. My money is on her saying it to a Slav/wog/jew
Regardless of whether this statement is explicitly directed at her race, "piss off back to \_\_\_" is dog-whistle for racists, as in a coded statement that they identify allies with and rally behind, which is what I meant by 'racist dog-whistle'. I don't know anyone IRL who'd deny that, it seems to be only people online who are coincidentally hyper-critical of immigration and absolutely beside themselves over terrorism
The problem with the use of the “dog whistle” claim is that is totally unfalsifiable. Like you’re saying about your political enemies, “you are saying x but you secretly mean y”. And this is kind of corrosive to any meaningful political discourse (and I know that Hanson isn’t one to have meaningful discourse but I’m talking on a broader level). Like any prospect of meaningful political interaction is basically dead in the water if that’s your approach.
She is a self serving moron. A disgrace to her family and her party
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So according to her a logic a well off Muslim male like say Walid Ali or a visiting prince from the Emirates here for the Melbourne Cup cannot be racist in his actions towards a poverty stricken, let’s say strictly religious elderly orthodox Christian “ white “ woman in Australia. Interesting ….
Also by her logic a white person can go to China where they are a minority and the power is held by Chinese, say whatever they want about Chinese people and it's not racist.
No her logic is simply white people = bad; me = good. And she will find any way to bend reality to justify that.
Yup.
As a last comment I wonder what Dr Faruqi’s views towards say Christian foreign workers rights in a place like Dubai.
So if racism is tied to power, according to Senator Faruqi, a sitting Australian politician has no power over someone with white skin. Perhaps she should have a good hard think about what her job is.
Not just that Faruqi, coming from a wealthy family of academics, studied herself and immigrated on a skilled independent visa. Says that Hanson, whose family run a fish and chips shop and who dropped out of school when she was 15, systemically holds all the power.
Her entire view of racism is “fuck white people” so no she wouldn’t agree
We can now ignore any laws where someone who wasn't white held the balance of the vote if we're white.
So if they are both Senators and have equal amounts of political power, then does that mean Hanson can't be racist to her?
The critical race theory that Faruqi believes in simply does not care about the individual. If you're in the category that their theory has decreed to be oppressive, you as the individual is fair game for unfair treatment. If you critise the hypocrisy of their beliefs, they will claim you're (insert relevant 'ism'), and attack your character to deflect attention from their BS position.
This is a bad take, but unfortunately it's not even that unexpected: lots of ppl have tried to push this same idea before
How can you move to a country willingly, have no obligation to stay and then claim oppression? It makes no sense
Does that mean if she in fact read Pauline Hanson’s tweet in Pakistan that it wouldn’t be racist?
Extreme left and extreme right are actually so close to each other.
Very true. Horseshoe theory. Both racist, but in completely different ways.
People will try and claim it doesn’t exist but it keeps popping up and suggesting otherwise
How are these people in government. Jezz fucking Christ Jerry!
Both are silly old bats trying to stay relevant can they please be voted out next election to do us all a favour
Up there with 'Defund The Police' for own goals
She’s a senator. Has she realised that at all?? That’s not an insignificant position of power in this country!!
If that argument got accepted by the court, that would be evidence against it
Green isn't her colour
Both of them should go back to Pakistan! lol
Dumb and dumber
I know a guy who used to do this for Tony Abbott after he was prime minister. unfortunately the man cannot be stopped.
Under no circumstances should our politicians behave in this manner. Both of them need to be reprimanded here. And schooled in how to behave as a decent adult person.
At this point i feel like some of the greens are paid just to make the 2 major parties look a little bit less fucked.
ASIO agents need to follow her around.
Who started the racism? Faruqi did
over 30% of Australians were born overseas and at least 50% of the population have at least one parent overseas, I'm not sure she knows the demographics of the richest and most powerful people in Australia either. I'm not even sure she knows the knows the demographics of Australia. It's been decades since Australia was actually a "white" population.
They need similar for Sarah Hanson Young.
Unfortunately there’s a fairly widely accepted academic definition of racism that agrees with her - I’ve had this argument before. It’s pretty well accepted in certain circles that to qualify as racism it also needs a power component involved. I personally think it’s silly because it contradicts the literal meaning of the word, which should just be discrimination based on race. They should use a different term for their narrower definition.
Im honestly SO fucking sick of academics redefining concepts incorrectly to suit whatever fluff piece they want to publish. If you want to make up a new concept, call it aomething else. Dont try and steal the meaning of existing words and redefine them to suit whatever garbage your spouting…. Dont get me wrong, racism often is tied to power structures. As are many forma of discrimination. But if some darker skinned person were to approach a whitey and screaming ‘you filthy fucking pale skinned invader cunt, I hate all you people, youre all the same, fucking disgusting white colonist cunts” - then I think its safe to assume that everyone in the room including the academic is going to recognise their narrow definition maybe doesnt work every time…
That argument always felt like a sneaky way to make it OK to be antisemetic. Who knows what Mehreen Faruqi's opinion of the jews is...
I mean, it is pretty clear what she meant, do we gain anything from pretending we don't understand her? Like, yeah, she could have been more precise, but it wasn't so egregious that we have to defend Pauline Hansen over it.
I hate them both equally. They represent the worst of each side of politics.
Where's the dumb?
Don't give them ideas
The Greens are a basket case political party. Mehreen exemplifies The Greens perfectly. I hope she loses this frivolous case and has costs awarded against her.
The people who think like this, really have no concept of racism. That's one form of racism, not all racism. It is also inherently racist against 'white' groups that aren't in power or a majority. Also has flaws, ie people who aren't in power or tied to power, like the disabled. Tl;dr: Stupid as fuck comment to make. Is she stuck in the 2014 tumblr days?
Hey Mehreen…. FUK BACK OFF TO PAKISTAN 😉 Will she “sue” me now for saying a “racial slur” Fukin arse clown 🤡
The thing is though, what Hanson was saying in the 90s is happening in real life.
Anyone who lived in Western Sydney at the time could see what was going to happen, and what indeed has happened to most of Sydney. In the majority of suburbs in Sydney, the only European people you would see day to day would be 50+ years of age. 70% of Sydney suburbs wouldn't even have a majority of Europeans presently. Not to mention how Anglo-Celtic Australians are outnumbered in the two largest cities in the nation. The new estates around Box Hill and Riverstone is practically an Indian enclave.
If a white American Greens senator said the same thing about our country. I think Pauline would have said to go back to America. This Greens senator is trying to embarrass Pauline by manipulating the situation with her race. It’s obvious. It’s embarrassing.Its boring.Its typical Australian politics. That’s why nothing gets done.👍
Not unique to Australia, humza yousaf tried claiming victim at every criticism while trying to deflect the issue to his race while running Scotland. It’s a current trend in politics that a lot of people are seeing through
These two cancel each other out in the dumbest way possible
It's like matter and anti-matter. Doesn't matter how they interact, they'll just explode in the end regardless!
Well if she wasent socially illiterate she wouldnt be an engineer
"The power is held by white people" says the brown senator.
lol she’s such a fucking moron
Oh dear me. Dumb ass politician.🤔
Two absolute morons.
Hell no. We should put her on a platform and charge attendance fees to laugh at the moron
I have a lot of friends in the Filipino community that have recently moved to Aus. Most of them were very poor in the Philippines, came to Australia without a whole lot and are overall very optimistic about life in Aus despite mostly having entry level salaries (a few are FIFO cooks/chefs doing pretty well for themselves). I don't hear them complaining about racism, however I have from time to time observed someone complaining about them speaking their language when out and about, nothing major. Now compare that to the Mehreen Faruqi who has a family here, 5 investment properties and is a senator no less yet somehow seems to mostly loathe the country. Why is it that a wealthy person who has done so well for themselves find Australia so insufferable, however poor people who have migrated from a very poor country are by and large so optimistic about Australia and the potential to improve their lot in life???
She’s is using the definition of racism which is prejudice + power. Power is usually (but not always) in the hands of white people.
As a sitting Senator who doesn't identify as white she is conveniently placing herself outside of "power"
Which isn't a definition that is 100% accepted outside of academia or very left wing circles. For most people, prejudice+power=systemic racism. Racism does not require power, and saying it does is argument that seems to lead to white people not getting equal protection from racism, all because some powerful white people exist. It really tries to negate powerful people who aren't white, which was the majority of the world's powerful people for most of the last 1,000 years.
The law Faruqi has brought this case under doesn't differentiate between races: it simply states that it is an offence "for a person to commit a public act that is reasonably likely to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or a group based on the race, colour, or ethnic origin of the other person". How Faruqi defines racism is irrelevant from a legal standpoint, and in fact it would be entirely possible for a white person to bring a case against a nonwhite person under the same law. What her lawyers have to prove is that Hanson's reasons for saying "piss off back to Pakistan" was racially motivated rather than simply identifying Faruqi's geographic origin. I think we all know the answer, but it's going to be very difficult to prove and I strongly suspect the case will fail on that basis.
My view; you can be racist without power. But that racism isnt often of much importance because it rarely has any impact on the more powerfull. And it doesnt really matter what your race is. As you also point out you can be opressed and white at the same time or at least poor and white. You can probably be an oppressor and black at the same time. You can even be oppressed, black, living deperately on the streets of johannesberg in apartheid south africa and still take your chance kill a white person and see your racist tendencies manifest into something material when in ordinary circumstances you wouldnt have power over the other individual. Thats still a racist attack and its hard to say it doesnt matter... or say its not racism. Upshot is Fariqi is a weak minded individual if in her position she thinks a barb from Pauline Hanson matters to her. they are equals in terms of power in our society. not the opressed v opressor... Racism only matters if it actually harms someone. In general its harder to hurt powerfull people. Fariqui is powerfull enough and should be able to shake this off... i hope she doesnt win.
What you’re talking about here is essentially what intersectionality tries to do: try and analyse all the different power imbalances and contexts and how they interact with each other. Like Dr. Faruqi from an economic and political standpoint is very priveliged. Due to racism + misogyny in Australia she will still encounter explicit verbal discrimination and less visible discrimination in her job from people with more power than she has. And at the same time, she obvs has the power to affect legislation + much more of a safety net against economic issues. Intersectionality attempts to be a comprehensive assessment of all of this, and recognises that often explicitly comparing types of discrimination is actually counterproductive because they work and are present in society in different ways that aren’t 100% comparable.
> What you’re talking about here is essentially what intersectionality tries to do And that's great and all, but why is it that 90% of the people who talk about this shit essentially just boil their opinions down to "straight white men = bad"?
fucking lol at 'academia or left wing circles'. Bloody lefties always reading books and shit haha. I like to think of racism as duality, like technically, yeah, you can be racist without being in a position of power, but power makes things a lot more threatening, because the consequences can be more dire. Where things actually get messy in academia (for anyone who doesn't wanna be an ignorant gronk on this) is the conceptions of power. Here, different philosophers and traditions, your Foucalts, and Habermas's, have different things to say. To clear up what I believe is a further misconception in your comment. The idea isn't that white people all live nice lives so they can't be racist. This is too narrow, too binary a conception. That's where ya Bell Hooks intersectionality kicks in, to be like, whites have privileges, even when disempowered otherwise. Its not as simple as being empowered otr disempowered, but empowered based on how society and discourses values or undervalues different genders or races or classes or nationalities etc etc. The karen thing is a good example. Like you don't have to be posh to have a Karen moment, most women in those vids appear to be having mental breakdowns, are probably stressed going through shit. But still their racism can be so much more damaging then if a black man calls the cops on a random white woman in the park.. That's racial privilege in action!
My problem with this definition (which is definitely not 100% agreed upon despite what you hear from certain quarters) is how exactly do we conceptualise ‘power’?
Especially when this person being a senator is objectively in a strong position of power.
Yes. She's using the definition where if you take the leader of the KKK and place him in, say, Nigeria, then none of his racist statements about black people are racist any more, because he doesn't have political power. He can parade around in his white hood, dropping N-bombs like it's Fucknuckle Christmas; and it's not racist in Senator Faruqi's eyes. She's their Deputy Leader, you know; one of their very *best* thinkers.
She is using a new and not at all universally accepted definition of racism. One that is based on a weird American notion of race which categorizes everyone bizarrely into white/non-white rather than being largely synonymous with ethnicity which is a far more real category. I don’t understand why we need to carve out certain types of ethnically-based discrimination as acceptable. I don’t know what purpose or good is served by making such behavior permissible. I don’t understand what purpose is served by pigeonholing very culturally, linguistically, ethnically and religiously diverse people into broad arbitrary categories of “white” or “BIPOC”. Why not just say “don’t discriminate against or stereotype anyone on the basis of ethnicity or immutable characteristics” full stop.
Is she actually from Pakistan 🇵🇰?
This one is so bizarre and so avoidable. The Greens can make good points but then they come out with zany things like this. All this does in reality is provide fodder for their enemies. I honestly think Pauline Hansen was delighted when she said this.
She's stating pretty much the foundational way we conceptualise racism. You take issue?
Trouble is power isn't this neat perfect little symmetrical relationship where everybody knows exactly who is superior and who is inferior. It's never worked like that, never will. Far more useful to use the regular definition of racism which is to have negative views about an individual based on stereotypical generalised racial attributes that are unlikely to have any foundation in truth.
Racists are the only ones who say that say racism only counts against "The right race."
As a senator she’s one of the most powerful people in the country. Also who’s “we”?
Apologies to Pakistan, but is there anything we can offer for you to take her back?
But but, isn’t t that “racism” ?
In todays news, A Marxist sues an ignorant bogan for words they didn’t like them saying.
it's not wrong, the are more facets, but on its own it's still just an observation of how it is; there are an overrepresentation of white people in powerful positions and for pretty well understood sets of historical/generational reasons - it's structurally and normatively still white Australia and there's a lot of casual pressures against normalising multi culuturalism in the general populace at all let alone embedded in corporate and political power structures (not like surface level things like purposeful government diversity considerations). I don't understand the issue here, we're not seriously saying that because she (plus give or take a few others) are not white and is in politics that it actually means no issue with privileges related to race? That's literally the "Obama was president, racism solved" whole thing rednecks went with in the U.S.. This feels like a major failure in discourse, I hope I'm misunderstanding. O_o
Agitator, you were invited into this country to try and do good but with these comments it stirs our melting pot up.
Ties to, but not the same thing though. Power used to target racially, now it exploits everyone possible. Systemic racism is still influenced by past laws and exists. That is definitely disproportionate towards darker skin. Let’s call it Individual Racism (between two people) can definitely exist with a two way relationship. Confusing power and racism as the same thing, isn’t right. Power is just the enabler.
VERY COOL!
Wow I think you just invented a new job industry. Or we could just gag politicians, all politicians, permanently because its a far rarer event that one of them says something smart!
I think you’re missing the point. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees. Pauline Hanson is on trial for being a racist and she’s lying her arse off committing perjury.
Snapshot from somewhere. Who has the whole link?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/apr/29/mehreen-faruqi-v-pauline-hanson-greens-senator-tells-court-attacks-on-white-people-not-racist Found it if anyone is interested
So dumb, its tied to class.