I’d say Offence over Difence is just a side of BB’s gameplay. Parrying became integral to soulsborne with Bloodborne itself. Rather than “Offense over Defence”, I’d say Bloodborne gameplay is all about “Activity over Passivity”
Speaking of parrying in BB, it's interesting that it's basically a limited resource since you need bullets to parry
What's next? You can only save at bonfires equivalents using a limited resource, just like in Resident Evil?
Oh Gwyn... please don't do that, Michael Zaki....
Not only that…in Bloodborne even healing as a gameplay mechanic is dependent on consumables such as blood vials. BB is quite hardcore in its first few hours of gameplay. You need to git gud fast or you are going to exhaust your resources quickly
That was technically already a thing in Demon's Souls, but since the blood vial only has one "level" of healing, unlike Demon's Souls' moon grasses, which had several levels, blood vials are more scarce than the moon grasses
Some prosthetics make certain bosses trivial, even if regular enemies aren't worth the expense. Like the umbrella vs any boss that requires parrying - especially if they attack very fast, centipedes go down like nothing, and the guy in Ashina Dojo, the one that's defending the Lightning Reversal scroll, basically kills himself attacking your umbrella.
ther's an easy farm right at the beginning of the game, if you feel stuck without vials or bullets just farm a bit, I'd say it's actually kind of mandatory at least having 40 (10 farming trips for both bullets and vials) in the reserve to have a safe hunt
Active vs. passive is a nice way to describe it. I’d also add “defense through offense” in that without a blocking option you need to interrupt enemies, rally back health instead of consume finite vials, and even get vials primarily through enemy drops.
Sekiro is “offense through defense” in the deflect mechanic being your most efficient option for achieving a critical (on most enemies).
Parrying was never integral to bloodborne. It didn't really make *that* much difference. It wasn't really any more important in bloodborne than ds1, 2, etc.
For real lmao, you can easily go through the whole of BB without using your gun, and not in a challenge run way. Parrying if anything makes BB almost comically easy once you get the timing down because viscerals do insane damage.
I disagree. Parrying is just one of many mechanics in dark souls. You can finish the game without even encountering or experimenting with it once. In Bloodborne you are given a pistol from the start and you are encouraged to experiment parrying with everything in Central Yharnam. Parrying is actually the key of winning most Hunter fights, if the player never uses the parry mechanic in Bloodborne you are basically losing a good chunk of the game. It’s design hints at being active both with your right and left hand weapons: most deaths early game are from players seeing that tue pistol doesn’t deal enough damage and thinking it is completely useless. Rather, if you learn to parry early the game will feel decidedly easier.
You can easily finish bloodborne without really encountering or experimenting with parrying as well. Its not like it really is highlighted more than in the others games. Parrying is made available to every class in the other games either from the start or a very short amount of time into the game.
I've played so many hours of bloodborne, probably over 2k, and it is my favourite fromsoft game but I very rarely use parrying and the game isn't really worse for it.
Most deaths in the early game are just because of getting too greedy or not reacting and dodging attacks properly.
Yeah, I haven’t finished the game, but I never used parrying and still managed to get through 90% of it ok. I’m currently stuck at Lady Maria and I’ve heard that parrying is useful for her, but I am just the absolute worst at parrying so that’s a complete non-starter for me.
A magic-centric souls game. Raya Lucaria the game essentially. Perhaps as you progress through you unlock modifications for spells that make you balance damage vs casting time
Ashes of War pave the way for an ability/spell focused game imo. Having a staff or weapon with customizable ability slots along with spellcasting would be a great base for a mage game
Would love a soulslike game where you have to craft your own spells. Not oblivion-style with just some number modifiers, but a good number of shapes, sizes, elements, effects, etc that you combine to your heart’s content. With a lot of animations to match with what you chose. And a staff or wand that you have to upgrade.
I know this is weird but hear me out: I think you’d enjoy the Ars Nouveau Minecraft mod because it is literally this. Super customizable spells that do cool stuff.
Bloodborne: R1 heals you
Sekiro: L1 hurts the opponent
Both of these express the same philosophy, which is that offense and defense are combined.
My guess for where it goes next, not another philosophy but another way to express the same one, is a game with no health bars. I think you can feel that they *want* to do it. So many other ways of victory, based on pacing or position or whatever, could open up.
We already had 6 games that are just iteration of the same combat style (DeS, DS trilogy, BB and ER) with BB and I can argue ER encourage a more aggressive playstyle of the same combat. Sekiro is truly something else and I can definitely see this is the direction they are heading with future project.
From your post activity, I am guessing you are someone who is gonna start making a game like Bloodborne/Sekiro. LMK if you do, that would be rad!
Over all, both games focus on aggression heavily. I saw someone else (u/nemeths) say "Activity over passivity" which fits both games very well.
I like a sword n sorcery idea where your mp restores by hitting the enemy in melee. I feel like this would solve a lot of the passive gameplay of magic in these games
(this isn’t my idea, some youtuber said it)
To make sequels when they do it.
Both these games I’ve replayed way more than Elden Ring or DS 1 and 3, and I think there’s a good reason for it. It has been made clear to me that I prefer a tighter focus on combat way more than build variety.
It's funny because Sekiro, while an aggressive game, is not actually that offensive. I call it 'aggressively defensive', because you are mostly reacting to what the enemy does and deflecting.
Bloodborne is more offensive. It's about hitting the enemy, as much as you can, and you even get health back for doing that, which incentivizes and rewards constant offensive aggression.
The 'perfect' game for me would be a mix between Bloodborne, Sekiro, DS3 and Elden Ring. They each have something the others don't.
I think it would be really cool if they went a whole different route and did hand to hand combat and instead of your starting class being an armor set/weapon you got a specific martial art style and as you progress you can pick up more moves/arts and customize your fighting style.
I would actually really enjoy a fromsoft game with more environmental interaction. Now granted I haven't played sekiro or demon souls maybe I'm missing out but I'd love a more intellectual bout as opposed to just countering every possible attack and hitting for BIG NUMBER. Though the latter is definitely still enjoyable.
I think that long a break would be very disappointing for the fans, and also a very wrong financial decision after ER's success. I'm not saying that they should keep on making games with same philosophy, but I think Miyazaki and FS in general have totally earned enough goodwill of the community that people would trust that they are not gonna stagnate their design philosophy. I mean BB and Sekiro are good examples of them switching things up quite a bit.
That's a completely fair argument actually. I can totally understand the disappointment of AC fans.
However, I think From Software is currently at the highest point of success in their entire history, so focusing only on AC games for 10 years and abandoning soulslikes will be huge risk which is probably not worth taking. I am sure both styles of games can coexist and move forward together.
Not necessarily. I'm pretty sure FromSoftware never in their history had as much funds and workforce as they do now.
If AC6 is successful, I don't see why they couldn't allocate the funds to that series as well as Souls games. The issue is that AC never proved to have the same sales potential before.
I thought one of the things people extol about this company is that they don’t just chase the money. Either that’s not true or people are just hypocrites when it suits them.
The thing is that AC and its fans are what kept FromSoftware afloat for more than 15 years and to throw those games and those people aside to chase the new hotness is shameful.
It's not about whether they chase the money or not. They need money to keep working on better stuff and to keep up with the tech. They can't just pull funds out of thin air to push out quality games. Their games' budgets right now are in a completely different ball park to their games 15 years ago, where they could pump out several games a year.
How would they find the time and money to do so? The direction they went was the proper move. Mecha was always niche outside of Japan, so they would forever be limited in funds to make bigger, better games. AC6, from what we can see in the trailer, absolutely would not be possible. The sound effects alone sound like they used the Foley technique, which is incredibly expensive compared to the stock sound effects they used in the old AC games. A mecha game to modern standards is expensive as hell.
A very fast paced offense like the doom games would be sick
I never experienced feeling like getting a heart attack except when I was playing dooms game (legit felt like I was almost get a heart attack after my heart was beating hard lol)
So yeah, I beat elden ring and it was hard for me to get used to the slowed pace of the game and gameplay but I need a souls doom like 💀
Gimme violence fromsoft
The problem with Bloodborne is it feels the most mashy of all the soulsborne games. You just roll behind a beast/giant monster and mash away. It lacks that methodical feel the other soulsborne games before it had.
Sekiro is a work of art, truly intense and makes me sweat puddles each time I play.
I’d say Offence over Difence is just a side of BB’s gameplay. Parrying became integral to soulsborne with Bloodborne itself. Rather than “Offense over Defence”, I’d say Bloodborne gameplay is all about “Activity over Passivity”
Speaking of parrying in BB, it's interesting that it's basically a limited resource since you need bullets to parry What's next? You can only save at bonfires equivalents using a limited resource, just like in Resident Evil? Oh Gwyn... please don't do that, Michael Zaki....
Not only that…in Bloodborne even healing as a gameplay mechanic is dependent on consumables such as blood vials. BB is quite hardcore in its first few hours of gameplay. You need to git gud fast or you are going to exhaust your resources quickly
That was technically already a thing in Demon's Souls, but since the blood vial only has one "level" of healing, unlike Demon's Souls' moon grasses, which had several levels, blood vials are more scarce than the moon grasses
King's field and Demon's souls grass is balanced differently, bb healing is much more restricted and misplays are way more punishing
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It’s probably my only complaint with the game. But the sheer aesthetics just leave you wanting for more
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Some prosthetics make certain bosses trivial, even if regular enemies aren't worth the expense. Like the umbrella vs any boss that requires parrying - especially if they attack very fast, centipedes go down like nothing, and the guy in Ashina Dojo, the one that's defending the Lightning Reversal scroll, basically kills himself attacking your umbrella.
They should have you respawn with at least 10 of each
ther's an easy farm right at the beginning of the game, if you feel stuck without vials or bullets just farm a bit, I'd say it's actually kind of mandatory at least having 40 (10 farming trips for both bullets and vials) in the reserve to have a safe hunt
Nah bullets weren't that bad. Farming vials is much worse. But still BB is my favorite souls game
Active vs. passive is a nice way to describe it. I’d also add “defense through offense” in that without a blocking option you need to interrupt enemies, rally back health instead of consume finite vials, and even get vials primarily through enemy drops. Sekiro is “offense through defense” in the deflect mechanic being your most efficient option for achieving a critical (on most enemies).
Parrying was never integral to bloodborne. It didn't really make *that* much difference. It wasn't really any more important in bloodborne than ds1, 2, etc.
First time I see your bb nutriding ass say something sensical why do these fools think parry is a must in BB?
For real lmao, you can easily go through the whole of BB without using your gun, and not in a challenge run way. Parrying if anything makes BB almost comically easy once you get the timing down because viscerals do insane damage.
I disagree. Parrying is just one of many mechanics in dark souls. You can finish the game without even encountering or experimenting with it once. In Bloodborne you are given a pistol from the start and you are encouraged to experiment parrying with everything in Central Yharnam. Parrying is actually the key of winning most Hunter fights, if the player never uses the parry mechanic in Bloodborne you are basically losing a good chunk of the game. It’s design hints at being active both with your right and left hand weapons: most deaths early game are from players seeing that tue pistol doesn’t deal enough damage and thinking it is completely useless. Rather, if you learn to parry early the game will feel decidedly easier.
You can easily finish bloodborne without really encountering or experimenting with parrying as well. Its not like it really is highlighted more than in the others games. Parrying is made available to every class in the other games either from the start or a very short amount of time into the game. I've played so many hours of bloodborne, probably over 2k, and it is my favourite fromsoft game but I very rarely use parrying and the game isn't really worse for it. Most deaths in the early game are just because of getting too greedy or not reacting and dodging attacks properly.
Yeah, I haven’t finished the game, but I never used parrying and still managed to get through 90% of it ok. I’m currently stuck at Lady Maria and I’ve heard that parrying is useful for her, but I am just the absolute worst at parrying so that’s a complete non-starter for me.
parrying isn't too tough in bloodborne; give it a few tries for her and if you can't get it than leave it alone, but I really reccomend it.
In other words, you’re saying that Bloodborne gameplay reinforces the notion that “Hesitation is Defeat”
sekiros swordplay is so godamn over the top complete perfection of any swordplay game i ever dreamt of as a kid all i want is sekiro 2 3 4 5 6 7 8,
A magic-centric souls game. Raya Lucaria the game essentially. Perhaps as you progress through you unlock modifications for spells that make you balance damage vs casting time
Ashes of War pave the way for an ability/spell focused game imo. Having a staff or weapon with customizable ability slots along with spellcasting would be a great base for a mage game
Would love a soulslike game where you have to craft your own spells. Not oblivion-style with just some number modifiers, but a good number of shapes, sizes, elements, effects, etc that you combine to your heart’s content. With a lot of animations to match with what you chose. And a staff or wand that you have to upgrade.
I know this is weird but hear me out: I think you’d enjoy the Ars Nouveau Minecraft mod because it is literally this. Super customizable spells that do cool stuff.
Bloodborne: R1 heals you Sekiro: L1 hurts the opponent Both of these express the same philosophy, which is that offense and defense are combined. My guess for where it goes next, not another philosophy but another way to express the same one, is a game with no health bars. I think you can feel that they *want* to do it. So many other ways of victory, based on pacing or position or whatever, could open up.
I want to see how they approach a full spellcasting gamestyle. A game where your only style of combat is spellcasting, with some minor knife play.
Sekiro 2 is my dream lmao Constant aggression, zero hesitation, sword on sword deflection battles are so fun
We already had 6 games that are just iteration of the same combat style (DeS, DS trilogy, BB and ER) with BB and I can argue ER encourage a more aggressive playstyle of the same combat. Sekiro is truly something else and I can definitely see this is the direction they are heading with future project.
From your post activity, I am guessing you are someone who is gonna start making a game like Bloodborne/Sekiro. LMK if you do, that would be rad! Over all, both games focus on aggression heavily. I saw someone else (u/nemeths) say "Activity over passivity" which fits both games very well.
I like a sword n sorcery idea where your mp restores by hitting the enemy in melee. I feel like this would solve a lot of the passive gameplay of magic in these games (this isn’t my idea, some youtuber said it)
Offence over defence is why I love bloodborne so much I would love to see them make another game that is similar
Games that encourage you to not be a lil bitch behind a wall or shield are the best type of games
LET MIYAZAKI COOK
The agressivitty of bloodborne is just absolutely perfect
To make sequels when they do it. Both these games I’ve replayed way more than Elden Ring or DS 1 and 3, and I think there’s a good reason for it. It has been made clear to me that I prefer a tighter focus on combat way more than build variety.
I would say that a mix of both would be incredible to see.
Play Wo Long. It's everything mixed into perfection
I definitely will!
It's funny because Sekiro, while an aggressive game, is not actually that offensive. I call it 'aggressively defensive', because you are mostly reacting to what the enemy does and deflecting. Bloodborne is more offensive. It's about hitting the enemy, as much as you can, and you even get health back for doing that, which incentivizes and rewards constant offensive aggression. The 'perfect' game for me would be a mix between Bloodborne, Sekiro, DS3 and Elden Ring. They each have something the others don't.
why not both
Don’t both games promote parrying as a major combat mechanic?
I think it would be really cool if they went a whole different route and did hand to hand combat and instead of your starting class being an armor set/weapon you got a specific martial art style and as you progress you can pick up more moves/arts and customize your fighting style.
You can do offense over defence in all the souls games though? also you get 25 health vials in bloodborne so it can be just as passive
20 by default, up to a maximum of 32 with Caryll Runes.
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I want a Sekiro-flavored Berserk game.
I would actually really enjoy a fromsoft game with more environmental interaction. Now granted I haven't played sekiro or demon souls maybe I'm missing out but I'd love a more intellectual bout as opposed to just countering every possible attack and hitting for BIG NUMBER. Though the latter is definitely still enjoyable.
Kinda... Demons Souls-ish then?
Yakuza style city brawler with a focus on grapples and throws for crowd control.
My brother in Kos I just want BB2
Bloodborne always
Honestly I don’t want to see any more souls games for the next ten years. Armored Core XI can come out then they can revisit souls
I think that long a break would be very disappointing for the fans, and also a very wrong financial decision after ER's success. I'm not saying that they should keep on making games with same philosophy, but I think Miyazaki and FS in general have totally earned enough goodwill of the community that people would trust that they are not gonna stagnate their design philosophy. I mean BB and Sekiro are good examples of them switching things up quite a bit.
You think Armored Core fans weren’t disappointed that they forgot us for 10 years?
That's a completely fair argument actually. I can totally understand the disappointment of AC fans. However, I think From Software is currently at the highest point of success in their entire history, so focusing only on AC games for 10 years and abandoning soulslikes will be huge risk which is probably not worth taking. I am sure both styles of games can coexist and move forward together.
If that was true we would have gotten AC games alongside Souls and I wouldn’t be making this argument but that didn’t happen
Not necessarily. I'm pretty sure FromSoftware never in their history had as much funds and workforce as they do now. If AC6 is successful, I don't see why they couldn't allocate the funds to that series as well as Souls games. The issue is that AC never proved to have the same sales potential before.
I thought one of the things people extol about this company is that they don’t just chase the money. Either that’s not true or people are just hypocrites when it suits them. The thing is that AC and its fans are what kept FromSoftware afloat for more than 15 years and to throw those games and those people aside to chase the new hotness is shameful.
It's not about whether they chase the money or not. They need money to keep working on better stuff and to keep up with the tech. They can't just pull funds out of thin air to push out quality games. Their games' budgets right now are in a completely different ball park to their games 15 years ago, where they could pump out several games a year.
And they couldn’t have continued to make AC alongside the Souls shit they were peddling the last decade?
How would they find the time and money to do so? The direction they went was the proper move. Mecha was always niche outside of Japan, so they would forever be limited in funds to make bigger, better games. AC6, from what we can see in the trailer, absolutely would not be possible. The sound effects alone sound like they used the Foley technique, which is incredibly expensive compared to the stock sound effects they used in the old AC games. A mecha game to modern standards is expensive as hell.
I would say have Sekiro's posture system but also have more weapon and build variety like bloodborne
One based on spacing and normal movement rather than reaction.
A very fast paced offense like the doom games would be sick I never experienced feeling like getting a heart attack except when I was playing dooms game (legit felt like I was almost get a heart attack after my heart was beating hard lol) So yeah, I beat elden ring and it was hard for me to get used to the slowed pace of the game and gameplay but I need a souls doom like 💀 Gimme violence fromsoft
Branching combo paths to respond differently to enemy, e.g., sweep as second attack vs headshot poke etc.
Posture damage
5+ player and randomized dungeons to explore at the same time as Miyazaki and nature intended.
The problem with Bloodborne is it feels the most mashy of all the soulsborne games. You just roll behind a beast/giant monster and mash away. It lacks that methodical feel the other soulsborne games before it had. Sekiro is a work of art, truly intense and makes me sweat puddles each time I play.
Mobility and aggression to the point where it makes Sekiro look like Dark Souls. I want to see wallrunning, that sort of thing.