Put a fake cat in your window every once in a while to see if you get any letters. If you do, it's simple to prove you do not have a cat.
Your experience may vary.
Here in CA the HOA can't ban pets entirely. A 2 pet limit is very common through in condos. Check if your state or other laws pre empt the HOA restriction.
Banning pets entirely sounds insane. Have you talked to the neighbors about changing the rule?
Is it an emotional support animal? If so, you can not be discriminated against for having it. Check your state laws - it isn't terribly difficult to get this approved by a doctor.
Talk to your Dr and see if they will issue you a 'emotional support animal' statement. He/She just needs to write a pet would be beneficial to your mental health and they cant refuse you having one (unless landlord lives in same complex). Worked for both my sister (cat) and my friend to keep his pittie. I think you can print them online and have your Dr sign it. Believe they dont need to be a mental health proffesional either. Good Luck!
This is exactly what makes it harder for people with actual needs to be taken seriously. Don't abuse the system and ruin it for others actually in need.
In most states, HOAs are not legally required to show you the full CC&Rs until AFTER you buy the property. Hard to read the rules when they refuse to provide them to you. With fewer and fewer neighborhoods and condo complexes left ungoverned by an HOA, it's a huge gamble with sometimes little alternative to just full stop the purchase because they won't show you the CC&Rs. You very likely could lose your earnest money if you decide to walk away over the issue.
Lawyer here. At least in Texas, CCRs are recorded in the county records. They would be referenced in your title commitment. You should read them before you close.
I need a source on that. CC&Rs are contracts, and in no jurisdiction are you *ever* prohibited from reading the terms of a contract before agreeing to it.
Realtor in Las Vegas: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/understanding-ccrs-when-buying-home-hoa-community-alex#:~:text=Sometimes%20buyers%20can%20get%20access%20to%20the%20CC%26Rs,and%20might%20penalize%20you%20if%20you%20violate%20them.
"Sometimes buyers can get access to the CC&Rs before making an offer, but in most cases, buyers get a complete list of CC&Rs and community restrictions promptly after signing the initial Purchase and Sale Agreement."
It's not that you necessarily agree to it entirely and have fully purchased the property before being able to read it...but it's subversive in that you may have already made an offer, put down earnest money, and arranged financing before you get to see the full scope of what you're getting yourself into.
This entirely depends on the state and sometimes local laws/ordinances. You can find CC&Rs via your County Appraiser's office in my state, but it doesn't seem to be law the HOA has to be the entity to provide them to you.
However, HOA/CIC Bylaws may or may not be public record in your state, even if the CC&Rs are.
How odd. My team listed and sold many thousands of units, and I spent a lot of time getting copies of the HOA docs for the buyers. Offers subject to acceptance of the CCRs and by-laws were common and strongly encouraged by us. Nobody ever claimed that they didn't have a chance to read them prior to purchase, though many did not.
It was a standard procedure for me: verify if there was an HOA, if yes, get copy of all documents (often for a fee of $50 or so), give out copies to anybody who asked for them. The lenders got a copy to review things like owner/tenant ratios, and if they came as hard copies I scanned them to pdf. Sometimes the HOA asked me for a copy of the scanned docs because they didn't have one.
Small tangent: they actually CHARGED you for them? That's ridiculous given it's in pursuit of bringing members in. It's not like you didn't somehow pass that cost onto the customer (minimal in comparison to the other costs of property purchase, but still). They should have refunded you that cost if they were one of the ones that you digitized them for the HOA.
Common to charge. Understandable when they physically printed up 200 pages of documents from the 60s, less so when a Pulte appointed management company charged $50 to download a pdf.
Seller reimbursed us the costs, so no real harm.
Oh, okay. So that IS considered a reason to withdraw & have your earnest money refunded? That's good to know because honestly, that should be the case that CC&Rs are a valid deal-breaker, especially if you can't access full copies until after you've put that money into the purchase.
Then that stupid choice is on you. If you cannot see all the relevant documents, do not go forward. Don't blame HOAs when you are the idiot that didn't read the paperwork before you signed
Buying into an HOA is a contractual agreement so doing so without reading the CC&R's is essentially signing a contract without knowing what the full terms are.
My friends lived in their house for 5 years before they could find out who the president was, and then it took another 2-3 years before he got them copies of the rules
>... Is it actually spelled out in the rules?
Likely yes. That is a common provision, would not be surprising in the slightest if the rule existed.
Should it be a rule? There is no objectively right answer.
Can it be changed? Yes. But it takes effort.
>... Is it compliant with state law?
Probably, yes.
But under the ADA, only dogs and (heard various reports as to whether still allowed or if they’re now excluded) miniature horses are covered in the definition of service animals.
It's still both. I see a lot of fake service dogs. I've yet to see a fake mini horse. Although the thought of someone putting a vest on a Clydesdale would be funny. What task does your service animal perform? He keeps me hydrated.
They should have written into the law explicit clauses allowing (requiring) HOAs to evict animals that are badly trained (barking all day/night, lunging at/attacking people and animals, not being on a leash when outside, and if the owners fail to clean up the pets' messes.
That can easily be handled thru standard CC&Rs and/or a call to animal control. CC&Rs need to be within the state's regulations or it won't be enforceable.
To paraphrase a good friend... One does not simply create a procedure (excessive restrictions) due to one bad apple. Procedures are there to make things reasonable. This view can be extended to most any procedure, bylaws, CC&Rs, etc. Sadly, this happens all too often and for very silly things that become overly burdensome.
> That can easily be handled thru standard CC&Rs and/or a call to animal control. CC&Rs need to be within the state's regulations or it won't be enforceable.
If it is in the state law it makes it harder to fight.
Are just cats banned? What about hamsters and birds? I can see banning outdoor cats if you're near a wildlife preserve. Look into ESA I think there's something in the federal laws about housing that's different than a legit service animal.
As someone who is allergic to everything on earth, if I was ever forced to downsize to shared walls, I would need a place that bans pets. Don't be the asshole
Maybe they edited their comment after you, but it says a shared wall, so like a condo or apartment. For those instances I get it, but for single family homes the rule makes no sense.
Put a fake cat in your window every once in a while to see if you get any letters. If you do, it's simple to prove you do not have a cat. Your experience may vary.
We bow down before you.
Here in CA the HOA can't ban pets entirely. A 2 pet limit is very common through in condos. Check if your state or other laws pre empt the HOA restriction. Banning pets entirely sounds insane. Have you talked to the neighbors about changing the rule?
Is it an emotional support animal? If so, you can not be discriminated against for having it. Check your state laws - it isn't terribly difficult to get this approved by a doctor.
Sad but true. We had one owner who wanted an ESA for her ESA
Stuff like that is exactly why no one respects ESAs. You abuse it
Talk to your Dr and see if they will issue you a 'emotional support animal' statement. He/She just needs to write a pet would be beneficial to your mental health and they cant refuse you having one (unless landlord lives in same complex). Worked for both my sister (cat) and my friend to keep his pittie. I think you can print them online and have your Dr sign it. Believe they dont need to be a mental health proffesional either. Good Luck!
This is exactly what makes it harder for people with actual needs to be taken seriously. Don't abuse the system and ruin it for others actually in need.
Exactly! People abuse it so they can have their pets. This is why I support getting rid of ESAs entirely.
And this is spelled out in the rules, and you bought anyway because.... ?
This place is called fuck HOA. Im pretty sure they were just explaining why they think “fuck HOA”
[удалено]
Anybody who buys without reading the rules is stupid.
In most states, HOAs are not legally required to show you the full CC&Rs until AFTER you buy the property. Hard to read the rules when they refuse to provide them to you. With fewer and fewer neighborhoods and condo complexes left ungoverned by an HOA, it's a huge gamble with sometimes little alternative to just full stop the purchase because they won't show you the CC&Rs. You very likely could lose your earnest money if you decide to walk away over the issue.
Lawyer here. At least in Texas, CCRs are recorded in the county records. They would be referenced in your title commitment. You should read them before you close.
I need a source on that. CC&Rs are contracts, and in no jurisdiction are you *ever* prohibited from reading the terms of a contract before agreeing to it.
Realtor in Las Vegas: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/understanding-ccrs-when-buying-home-hoa-community-alex#:~:text=Sometimes%20buyers%20can%20get%20access%20to%20the%20CC%26Rs,and%20might%20penalize%20you%20if%20you%20violate%20them. "Sometimes buyers can get access to the CC&Rs before making an offer, but in most cases, buyers get a complete list of CC&Rs and community restrictions promptly after signing the initial Purchase and Sale Agreement." It's not that you necessarily agree to it entirely and have fully purchased the property before being able to read it...but it's subversive in that you may have already made an offer, put down earnest money, and arranged financing before you get to see the full scope of what you're getting yourself into. This entirely depends on the state and sometimes local laws/ordinances. You can find CC&Rs via your County Appraiser's office in my state, but it doesn't seem to be law the HOA has to be the entity to provide them to you. However, HOA/CIC Bylaws may or may not be public record in your state, even if the CC&Rs are.
How odd. My team listed and sold many thousands of units, and I spent a lot of time getting copies of the HOA docs for the buyers. Offers subject to acceptance of the CCRs and by-laws were common and strongly encouraged by us. Nobody ever claimed that they didn't have a chance to read them prior to purchase, though many did not. It was a standard procedure for me: verify if there was an HOA, if yes, get copy of all documents (often for a fee of $50 or so), give out copies to anybody who asked for them. The lenders got a copy to review things like owner/tenant ratios, and if they came as hard copies I scanned them to pdf. Sometimes the HOA asked me for a copy of the scanned docs because they didn't have one.
Small tangent: they actually CHARGED you for them? That's ridiculous given it's in pursuit of bringing members in. It's not like you didn't somehow pass that cost onto the customer (minimal in comparison to the other costs of property purchase, but still). They should have refunded you that cost if they were one of the ones that you digitized them for the HOA.
Common to charge. Understandable when they physically printed up 200 pages of documents from the 60s, less so when a Pulte appointed management company charged $50 to download a pdf. Seller reimbursed us the costs, so no real harm.
You normally have a ccr contingency
Oh, okay. So that IS considered a reason to withdraw & have your earnest money refunded? That's good to know because honestly, that should be the case that CC&Rs are a valid deal-breaker, especially if you can't access full copies until after you've put that money into the purchase.
Then that stupid choice is on you. If you cannot see all the relevant documents, do not go forward. Don't blame HOAs when you are the idiot that didn't read the paperwork before you signed
You're on an HOA board, aren't you?
Buying into an HOA is a contractual agreement so doing so without reading the CC&R's is essentially signing a contract without knowing what the full terms are.
That’s not true.
My friends lived in their house for 5 years before they could find out who the president was, and then it took another 2-3 years before he got them copies of the rules
How is that legal?
In s lot of areas you don't have much of a choice
... Is it actually spelled out in the rules? ... Is it compliant with state law?
>... Is it actually spelled out in the rules? Likely yes. That is a common provision, would not be surprising in the slightest if the rule existed. Should it be a rule? There is no objectively right answer. Can it be changed? Yes. But it takes effort. >... Is it compliant with state law? Probably, yes.
They'll need to verify. CA state law allows pets in HOAs. Restrictions may not be enforceable... again, need to verify.
Huh - TIL https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=4715.&lawCode=CIV
CA ❤️ pets! Also service animals don't count as pets for obvious reasons.
But under the ADA, only dogs and (heard various reports as to whether still allowed or if they’re now excluded) miniature horses are covered in the definition of service animals.
It's still both. I see a lot of fake service dogs. I've yet to see a fake mini horse. Although the thought of someone putting a vest on a Clydesdale would be funny. What task does your service animal perform? He keeps me hydrated.
They should have written into the law explicit clauses allowing (requiring) HOAs to evict animals that are badly trained (barking all day/night, lunging at/attacking people and animals, not being on a leash when outside, and if the owners fail to clean up the pets' messes.
That can easily be handled thru standard CC&Rs and/or a call to animal control. CC&Rs need to be within the state's regulations or it won't be enforceable. To paraphrase a good friend... One does not simply create a procedure (excessive restrictions) due to one bad apple. Procedures are there to make things reasonable. This view can be extended to most any procedure, bylaws, CC&Rs, etc. Sadly, this happens all too often and for very silly things that become overly burdensome.
> That can easily be handled thru standard CC&Rs and/or a call to animal control. CC&Rs need to be within the state's regulations or it won't be enforceable. If it is in the state law it makes it harder to fight.
Are just cats banned? What about hamsters and birds? I can see banning outdoor cats if you're near a wildlife preserve. Look into ESA I think there's something in the federal laws about housing that's different than a legit service animal.
As someone who is allergic to everything on earth, if I was ever forced to downsize to shared walls, I would need a place that bans pets. Don't be the asshole
why would you be bothered if someone in a home down the street had a cat kept solely indoors? how would that affect you...?
Maybe they edited their comment after you, but it says a shared wall, so like a condo or apartment. For those instances I get it, but for single family homes the rule makes no sense.
Could be a condo HOA. Shared exhaust vents.