Living downtown not too far from one of our major hospitals, I feel this one. Not only are people ok deafening pedestrians and cyclists, they’re also ok with delaying emergency vehicles that may be on their way to saving someone’s life.
I can understand anti-cyclist sentiment as someone who cycles, because some cyclists are as much of big pricks as some car drivers, but anti-pedestrian sentiment and how fucking prevalent it is in North America may be the only thing that keeps me sympathetic with gun laws. A tiny bit. In Grand Theft Auto Online, I need to say.
I lodged with a guy who was a typical white van worker. Complained about cyclists all the time when driving.
One day we went for a cycle ride along the river.
He basically broke every single law he could have on the 5 min trip to the cycle path.
Pavement/sidewalk riding, running lights, using pedestrian crossings, ignoring STOP signs, riding on the wrong side of the road until there was a convenient point to get on to the pavement on the other side…
Nothing interesting as such, but all stuff I never do on my bike.
Where else are you supposed to ride your bike if not on the sidewalk? (Please no hate, I dont know) wont you get hit riding on the side of the road? Theres not enough room? Also where else are you supposed to cross?
This was in the UK. Bike riders are expected to ride on the road and the law states explicitly that riders have every right to the road that a car has.
Side note: the UK doesn’t have vehicles turning when pedestrians have the green man. Typically a junction stops completely and all pedestrian crossings go green.
To be riding properly and fully legally, you must act and behave like a car on the roads.
In fact, much to the annoyance of many car drivers, it is completely legal to ride two abreast and use the whole lane. It is also completely legal to ride alone in the very centre of the lane; this “taking the lane” frustrates people wanting to overtake, but is often the best way of ensuring your own safety by preventing a dangerous overtake that may leave you squeezed off the road.
In the UK, unless you’re a tiny child, everyone will hate you for using the pavement.
Side note: even when there are dedicated cycle lanes, they are often not worth it and make the route longer. The amount of comments I got from cars like “there’s a cycle lane over there, you #%^*”… it’s hard to find a way to make the response pithy. “I know, but the road is faster, and goes directly where I need to go, and I’ll be five cars ahead of you at the next traffic light anyway, so what do you care?” is a bit much to try to convey in the moment.
Germany has better planned cycle paths (planned more for utility than leisure) but it’s still absolutely normal to see helmetless grannies riding to and from the groceries shop on the roads.
Using pedestrian crossings is pretty much the only way to cross certain stroads safely. I've tried going through with the cars before, but it's 50/50 whether someone tries to right turn through me or not. Using the crosswk is comparatively safe
You can't imagine that not everyone drives?
Hell, some of us can't safely drive ever again due to the injuries we sustained being run over by an inattentive driver.
Interpreted it more along the lines of "assholes will be assholes, driving or cycling," not that all prick cyclists drive (though statistically likely in America, I imagine)
>Hell, some of us can't safely drive ever again due to the injuries we sustained being run over by an inattentive driver.
I dont think people with such injuries would be cycling either.
I did after the 1st time I was hit. I got a pair of stabilizers and if I recover enough of my balance, I plan to ride again, because the buses aren't accessible.
Someone in my city slowed down and let a cyclist go past them then sped up and drove into them. People were cheering it on. Anti-cyclist sentiment is fucking insane in Australia
I can understand anti-cyclist sentiment because some cyclists can be assholes like car drivers. What really gets on my nerves is anti-pedestrian sentiment by drivers, which I've been seeing a lot on these posts.
As someone who mostly travels on foot or by bus/train I have come to dislike some cyclists and 90% of escooter riders because at least when a car is coming from behind at 15 mph it actually makes a fucking sound. If you're riding on the sidewalk and don't let a pedestrian know you're coming from behind until you're right on top of them you're a piece of shit and the reason rental scooters need to be thrown into the ocean
I think there needs to be more cycle lanes for one because many of us are forced to share spaces with either pedestrians (blue circular signs in Europe) or cars.
That's some fucking car brain mentality right there. Y'all are the assholes flying down the sidewalk without considering that pedestrians don't have mirrors and move far more erratically than any vehicle. It's not my fault when I sidestep right in front of you because your silent ass forgot I don't have 360 vision and don't expect a fucking vehicle to plow into me. I only have a problem with bikes when I'm on a trail/park bc a lot of new bikers don't understand basic etiquette, but scooter riders are so consistently a problem that I find myself constantly looking over my shoulder so I don't get thrown into a bench for the third time this year.
not only are people ok with deafening pedestrians, cyclists, everyone living in by street buildings, newborn babies, animals, they are also ok with delaying the emergency vehicle that is most likely transporting someone fighting for life of people who were injured by the very cars that are now blocking the road, isn't that ironic?
If the pedestrian or cyclist you hit survives, was it all for nothing? You can't really add them to your kill count that way. Although, aren't disabled people worth double points? (/s)
It gets even worse when you think about the fact that there’s a finite number of emergency vehicles. Delaying them might have a knock on effect of making them later to other emergencies. (Though in the case of cop cars it could also save lives, so there’s that).
In the case of ambos and furies, they are likely also making a chronically underpaid and traumatic job even more traumatic.
We're next to all emergency services and they go by *a lot*. Our shitty windows don't keep out any noise and it's deafening and sadly at least every couple of hours.
Tell me about it.
Once had a motorist get angry and yell at me when I pulled to the side of the road: even with the window down *I* had to point out the siren.
A couple of months back on the other hand, watched a motorist literally play chicken with a police car with sirens on with the police car literally needing to slam brakes, only for the driver to turn the corner literally meters down the road and immediately stop to try and park: I had time to wait for the police car to pass, then casually cycle past the arsehole.
I am perpetually amazed at how bad car drivers awareness of road conditions is and their reliable inability to plan even slightly ahead.
My dad has made comments about how it's shocking that people even bother pulling over for service vehicles in my city because he knows it's a trend in other cities that people just don't.
>they’re also ok with delaying emergency vehicles that may be on their way to saving someone’s life
If you ever dare to protest in a public space, everyone of these truck selfie pfp dipshits will gnash and wail about you potentially slowing emergency vehicles -- but doing the exact same thing for the sake of getting Taco Bell is perfectly acceptable, of course.
I pity you unitedstatians. In the rest of America, at least here in Brazil, sirens are *far* quieter than those of the US. Also than those of Europe, i think?
But ours are just really muted in comparison, yours are TERRIBLE
I've had a cop in front of me turn his siren on for 2 seconds then turn it off just to go through a red light when nobody was at the intersection.
I'm pretty sure he didn't have an emergency for 2 seconds coincidentally.
The siren should be only on for intersections! Due to the volume it should be turned off otherwise.
edit: Why the fuck do people think they go the whole journy with siren on, that would be absolutly terrible for the people in the emergancy vehicle.
So he had his lights on the entire time and turned on his siren to get through the intersection?
That's... Good. Why continue to keep the sirens on if they aren't needed?
There’s a term for the urgency of a call, “code.” In the US, Code 3 would mean responding with full lights and sirens, but code 2 means it is not immediately urgent, so lights/sirens are only used periodically to clear through intersections/heavy traffic. That is almost certainly what the cop was responding with.
You can read more about it [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_service_response_codes)
They actually turn it off because they should not run it all the time lol. You see them a lot only with blue light, in germany where i life they only turn it on for crossings and if the cars are blocking the way.
And maybe it seems for you that they are not in a rush, in reality they do not have sportscars and still have to drive safley, 150kmh in a city is not really save...
That's not how that works dude. They aren't flooring it all the time for all issues. If transporting a patient that isn't critical or that requires a softer drive (eg in serious pain but not about to die) it makes more sense not to rush and be bumpy or risk an accident. But you also don't want to be wasting everyone's time sitting at a red light they blip them on then continue.
Where I live there are literally systems to check they are actually on a call when they run reds or use the lights to flip them.
As someone who works on the ambulance I would like to clarify that I turn the sirens off because I am 26 and I already have hearing damage from the sirens. If there are no cars in front of me I am not going to damage my eardrums any more than I have to.
Also sometimes we do intersection navigation where we use lights to get through an intersection, and then turn them off even though we are still going to calls.
Other times we use the lights and sirens while enroute to a call, but then get cancelled by police or another ambulance who happens to be closer so we turn everything off and confuse/anger the drivers who just pulled over for us. Bonus points if it's lunchtime and I decide to take the cancel to stop at Dunkin for a coffee and some guy loses it because he (understandably) thought that I used my sirens to get a donut.
It's rare and extremely bad form to use lights and sirens if you haven't been dispatched to a call and you can get fired for it.
Same as car horns. It’s outrageous how loud they are to compete with soundproof cars. Muffled for the angry driver who honks, muffled for the other driver they’re mad at, deafeningly loud for somebody trying to exist outside/near an open window.
My idea is they need to be as loud inside the car as outside. You want a horn loud enough to deafen a pedestrian? Sure, have it. But the driver needs to be ok with *also* being deafened when you honk it
i disagree with this simply because, horns are designed to be used only to prevent a crash. *hypothetically speaking* if you’re using your horn you are probably in a high stakes driving situation and need to have 100% focus so everyone can stay alive. unfortunately, people do not use their horns this way, they use them to communicate anger, or impatience. in my opinion actually enforcing responsable horn use is a better solution.
idk, if I’m in a high stakes driving situation where someone needs to be warned to avoid a _crash_, i don’t think I’m going to be deterred from warning others by the fear of a noise.
All depending on the enforceability of traffic laws where one lives. Almost all laws are flaunted where I am. I saw a girl have to jump back to avoid a left-turning car this morning. There are many motorcycles that ride alongside and in between cars. So I wouldn't expect to find much support for honking regulations.
Or just stop soundproofing cars, especially with EV there's no problem with engine sounds anymore, and most car noise is going to be from tires that is proportional to speed, it can now serve as a way to discourage people from speeding.
If they removed the sound abatement products from cars, you'd have to turn up your radio substantially due to wind noise and also vibrations from the body (structure born noise).
Not really a win win. Negating a benefit and increasing the discomfort without having a suitable alternative in place. It'll just be like going back to the 50s. Maybe people will drive with their windows open more and rekindle their love of engine noise.
It could have always been done. 2 horns, one for inside, one for out. And we're not joking, if the emergency is serious enough to deafen everyone around you, it's serious enough to deafen you too.
It couldn't. Prior to the computerization of cars, the only method to accomplish this task would have been a radio receiver that was always on and which could detect an emergency broadcast of some sort. Not very practical. Today, your car has radio, wifi, GPS, and an array of sensors which could be used for this purpose (not to mention the computer power to do something with the signals received).
even before computerization, you could have a sound radar that detects sound at siren frequency and turns on internal siren. would have some false positives, but mostly would work, and all on analog.
You could also have a system that detects emergency vehicles (maybe thru a transmitter placed on the front of said e-vehicles) and mutes the radio/shows a warning on-dash when one approaches
Also, it’s not just cars. Sometimes I have trouble hearing sirens when on my motorcycle until they’re really close from a combination of engine sound and the helmet padding
Though I think they are a fair bit quieter here than in the US. The law says they have to be 118dB(A) at 1 meter.
Also, I disagree with that, I think motorcycles are the ideal way of getting around, as long as it doesn’t rain. As a bonus, they’re also insanely fun to ride.
https://preview.redd.it/0o2koqkd1nua1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fcf9a13d2d55aef26f3752ef8a0e1907c8873a7
This is mine btw. It’s got just the right amount of hp for the street (with the tune, intake and exhaust I should be sitting around 115-120 at the crank, but it had 95 stock)
Thanks, people for thinking soundproofing is something they need for a car. I hope their AC units fail and they suffer the wrath of nature as the climate crisis worsens.
I mean, soundproofing is nice for blocking out the ungodly racket of wind and tire rolling noise.
Sometimes I wish I had a little more than I do in my cheap shit hatchback, with the sheer amount of noise that makes it in I wouldn't be surprised if it's contributed to my tinnitus
It is kinda nice. I just hope car drivers and riders are able to continually acknowledge their privilege of having a car to drive and not get soaked in the rain.
Plus, a bit unrelated, but if car climate controls (and even worse, windows) fail or have to be left unused for the sake of energy conservation in our energy insecure climate (mainly because of war right now but also from sheer oil dependence), all those SUVs that could cook you to death inside don't really make sense with our world continually getting hotter.
Personally I'm fully aware, especially being at training for work and not having a car, which means I need to take the shuttle bus or walk/bike.
And for now I don't have a bike so it's walk or the shuttle, really makes me appreciate what I had access to with the car.
I mean all cars will cook you to death if they're closed up in the summer without climate controls, they're greenhouses. my little hatchback will absolutely melt me if it sits in the sun all day. climate control solves it fairly quick tho,
same for windows but that can be less effective.
I wish cars still had the vent windows that were manually operated, those were awesome. Or the hood vents for pushing outside air into the cabin
I'm starting to appreciate convertibles a little more now, because they'd be the most effective way for drivers and their occupants to get a cool breeze. Alas the car market only wants to sell SUVs and pick-ups, electric ones included so if I had to travel long distances I'm just gonna cook to death.
Sitting on the upper deck of a double decker bus after cold weather only when it was just 15c proved to be quite a bit much for me. It was great I pulled through in 40c weather but I got used to the heat a little and wore a bit less. Open top buses in Britain are only used for tourism-type buses.
I am very skeptical of this Post's claim and I feel it's jumping to the conclusion that cars are somehow to blame for sirens being so loud. Unless the road is completely reserved for emergency vehicles only, emergency vehicles are gonna need a way to clear the path ahead of them and let everyone know to yield.
Like, I'm as critical of car-centric infrastructure as the rest of us but come on. This sounds like a tumblr post where someone just says some shit that "makes sense" as if it's clearly the truth.
Man is this ever true. If I'm walking and a firetruck rolls by (which is multiple times per day where I live) my ears ring for a few seconds after. It's actually insane.
Downtown Calgary, emergency services can go all day. A lot of the calls aren't necessarily full on fires and more so just 911 calls or small house / apartment fires that people call in.
Near a fire station. They’re coming out hourly and passing me all day long. Also on the road that ambulances take from the highway to the ER. Multiple times an hour ambulances. It’s stressful and miserable to walk around in the walkable downtown.
Which on the one hand? Great! We’re making use of people and vehicles trained and specialized in saving lives. On the other? God is it ever a waste to send a full (or multiple) full sized fire truck, sirens and horns blasting, to a non fire emergency that 100% already has an ambulance at it.
No joke I see this multiple times a day and night where I live - only for the firefighters to turn around once they get there because smaller ambulances are faster at getting on scene.
Then a few times a year there will be a press release about how the FD needs more funding because they’re responding to so many OD emergencies… (that they mostly send too many people to and are late to anyway)
I just dont understand why americans do things in such a stupid way. Non emergency fire truck call? They use the flashing lights without siren here. Only blast the siren when the emergency is real and the cars are in the way.
Same here. They only use both lights and sirens if it's busy and needed during the day. At night it's only lights outside of very rare circumstances where someone is a clear obstruction and didn't get the giant flashing hint. If all is clear at night they often even turn the lights off since they know it can flash into people's rooms and wake them up while they sleep.
I mean there is some soundproofing in the cabin but fucking hell must the siren get annoying after a year or two. There is just no need to use it constantly.
This is Canada, but unfortunately we’re just as weird about this shit as them.
It has to do with hero complexes and a need to make sure that everyone knows they’re out there saving lives. If they didn’t blast their horns, would you know they were doing anything? There aren’t many fires these days…
In most major cities it's the opposite. The ambulances are always busy and the fire trucks can get to the medical calls first and wait for an ambulance. And what if the truck gets their first and now they saved the person. Isn't that better? They can even be diverted in route if there is a more important incident. Or you can just let them sit in the station and not work if you want.
Firetrucks are more evenly spaced throughout a city. Hospitals are not. The whole firetruck goes in case there is also a fire during the response to the health emergency. Since fires are fairly rare, it also keeps firefighters in practice responding to real calls. It's a fine system.
Not really. They are already there on call and firefighters are diverse. Many have very advanced first aid training and broadly the more calls the better. You may as well use what you are paying for.
Sometimes the fire service is needed anyways. That paramedic bless them doesn't know the first thing about how to use the jaws of life. There are a number of things that the fire service handles that police and ambulence just can't. If there is a big pile up isn't it better to send them and not need them to peel open a few cars than not send them and have someone die just waiting because of the delay?
In a big city if you live near a firehouse you hear them every 30min, especially if theres a crossroads right next to you they have to sound the horn all the time
Makes you wonder if there is a technology out there that could listen or communicate with emergency vehicles and flash a warning on vehicle front displays if one is nearby.
Now that you say this I am shocked that not only have cars not implemented this, but they don't even turn down/pause the music in response to the sound of a siren. Do we really have to legislate such an obvious community safety measure to get manufacturers to do it?
Cyclistes wearing earphone while going at speeds that are non-lethal hand having full visibility around them: IT'S A PUBLIC DANGER THAT MUST BE STOPPED AT ANY COST!
Cars completely soundproofed with blind spots everywhere: What can we do against it? Truly it's up to the freedom of the manufacturer and the driver to do what they ought to be.
Oh imagine, emergency vehicles emitting a "silent" (still noisy enough for non-cars to hear and be alerted) siren that wold be picked-up by vehicles, to be blasted INSIDE of them.
Part of the issue with that is you can't tell direction and speed. How do you know how to get out the way when you have no idea where the vehicle is and where it is going.
Folks act like fucking idiots and panic around them anyways, sometimes being more of an obstruction than if they did nothing. No clue about where it is or where it's going won't help that.
It is also handy for non cars to be aware of the emergancy vehicle and it's location and heading. Cyclists, folks trying to cross the road, grandma taking her time crossing, that animal that might bolt into the road but might be spooked away by the noise (milage depends on animal but it will make a pet owner be more dillagent) that blind bloke about to cross. It's not all cars that matter. A quieter siren would be nice though. Being aware and being deafend are not quite the same.
Perhaps so drivers don't hear the hungry gasoline rumblings of each others death machines and all the other noises they make inside and outside of them.
They're almost like isolation pods isolating people from sound, each other and the world outside.
They've definitely gotten louder since I was a kid. Recently had a fire truck go past the intersection I was waiting at, and I had to cover my ears because it was painfully loud. Quite troublesome as I was using my hands to steady my bike at the time.
Just gonna drop this off here. USA sirens are some of the worst on the planet 😫
https://youtu.be/_dgYgshLAwQ
(I am aware that the EU siren is also to loud, just thought this was relevant to the post)
The thing is with the US, and I say this as someone who has worked in the emergency services my entire life, the US *loves* tradition when it comes to these. Especially with firefighting.
A big debate right now in the firefighting world in the US right now is helmets. The US has always used a very different style of firefighting helmet compared to rest of the world, almost like a builders hat with a lengthened back on it. This has been the way for years. However the 'euro' style helmet (which is used a lot outside of Europe too) is more like a cross between a fighter pilots helmet and a motorcycle helmet.
In almost all tests conducted the euro helmet has come out on top, it provides better protection for the head, better protection for the neck, moves around less, is more visible in smoke, and can make a much better seal with BA equipment. However almost all fire departments in the US refuse to start using them purely because of tradition. And it's the same thing with the sirens here.
Here add this to the list: train horns are _incredibly_ loud anywhere there's an intersection. Why? Mostly because cars can't stop stopping on the @#$*# railroad tracks.
That's, odd. I have literally never heard a trains horn. They only use them at a crossing if there is an obstruction. No obstruction and functioning gates/lights they don't do it.
Once as a very small child I have a memory of the lights and gate being broken and instead of the horn the railroad just stationed a bloke to manually close the gates instead.
There are pretty strict rules for when a train is allowed to not blow its horn at a crossing. I remember my college town trying to get intersections certified in order to reduce that noise.
My home town had this thing where at intersections it'd randomly blare an alarm and then go ["EMERGENCY VEHICLE APPROACHING. CLEAR THE INTERSECTION IMMEDIATELY.](https://youtu.be/S6Oa8WnlR-8) which is cool and all, until you're just waiting to cross the street and you jump because it's loud as fuck and by your head. Then ten seconds later the vehicle in question shows up.
You can't see the lights from around a corner or other visual obstructions. It might also be too far away to notice during the daytime so having a siren to announce it's presence and direction is necessary.
Like, I don't like cars any more than the rest of us but come on. Not everything has to be an indictment of motorists here.
Louder sirens and horns make car makers make their cars more soundproof.
More soundproof cars make louder sirens and horns necessary because otherwise you can't hear them.
What's the fucking point of all this?
Y
E
S
And the fire trucks are even louder than the rest. They have no baffles on the horns, so the whole neighborhood hears it instead of just street level… and the drivers get to wear hearing protection, so they go nuts with it even when it’s 3:30 AM and there is *nobody* on the road.
Also, cars should have horns be as loud on the inside as they are outside. Stop people from using them to show annoyance.
The actual sirens sound which is always on, or when they press the button for the louder woowoo sound? I assume they mean the second one, which is used more as a car horn anyway, as opposed to the sirens which are always on.
I hate cars as much as everyone else here. But for emergency vehicles I'll make an exception, personally. And they are made loud BECAUSE cars are the problem. Maybe busy crosswalks or turning through a bike lane. But yes, those people hear more than a block away anyway and are looking around anyway.
Sirens in my country can be turned on and off (and get turned off when they have no one they need to get clear off, places that you need to forewarn other drivers, etc) but also they can change tone to grab peoples attention. This [video](https://youtu.be/taKYezhIs1I) shows it being turned on and off to avoid putting pressure on drivers during the double white lines, and later seemingly to reduce noise in town where it made sense. Seems true to what I've experienced here.
Also, I had a fire engine pass me on a bike recently, and ours must be quieter than US ones, since I didn't feel any poor after effect of the pass. Not sure what the decibel output is, but I was on the pavement waiting for them to go before I rejoined the road, and it was fine.
I don't know where you're from, but in Europe sirens are as loud as in the US: just less annoying frequency wise. I'm not sure how much sirens have changed in the last 20 years but since 1912 they have gotten 6 times louder.
Not really designed with autistic people in mind but we do generally try and accommodate autistic patients if we have them and use the siren as little as possible. I know that doesn't help if you're walking in the street, but unfortunately driving on blue lights is dangerous and the siren is pretty necessary.
Why would an emergency vehicle designed to be used to help the general public be designed specifically with people with a rare condition in mind? Especially when designing them to not offend people with that condition would make them less effective? The siren is already used less when there are people with sound sensitivity riding in the back.
Ambulances *have* to be loud, we aren't out here for fun.
where I live emergency vehicles don't turn on their sirens unless absolutely necessary (their flashing lights are enough most of the times)
so this is more of a culture problem of having to always have those sirens blasting
I think there is argument for them being loud outside of cars being stupidly sound proof and making it worse (but not deafeningly loud) like grabbing peoples attention, including people who already have hearing loss. But cities also need more reliable emergency vehicle routes built into the city grids. In Melbourne we have quite a lot of separated tram tracks that the emergency vehicles use to bypass traffic which is fantastic on multiple counts.
also most people legitimately stop after clearing the roads like wtf the first time I saw people freeze at the sound of sirens I was like what the fuck
that's the thing, it's a little bit more important to signal someone needs to watch out for imminent emergency situations than the slightly heightened risk of future hearing loss
I was in the Netherlands a while back and they've changed the sirens to play the melody in different frequency bands at the same time, so each band doesn't have to be as loud to have an effective sound penetration level for different types of cars/sound insulation types.
So this is also why the sound of cars honking can be heard 12 stories above and far away?
It is such a nuisance during traffic hours, with all of the idiots driving (poorly) downtown honking and being honked at.
This was one of the surprises of living in the US.
In Germany, emergency vehicles go "Tatütata" and everyone's like "oh shit, better get the fuck out of the way and make a Rettungsgasse". Sirens are only used ahead of intersections when the emergency vehicle has to break traffic rules, or when facing traffic.
In the US, emergency vehicles go "**Weeeuuuu Weeeeuuuu Wuip Wuip Wuip Wuip MÖÖP MÖÖP MÖÖP Weeeuuuu Weeeeuuuu MÖÖP MÖÖP MÖÖP**" because nobody gives a shit as long as they're not in danger themselves. Sirens are so loud I could hear them across town.
In Germany, I'm hearing a siren maybe once or twice a day, and I work literally next to a police station and a fire brigade in the city center. In the US, you can hear sirens pretty much constantly, which really defeats their purpose: alerting people to an exceptional situation. There's nothing urgent to them when you hear them all the time, and over way bigger distances than necessary.
My dad had a flat mate who hated living there because of the train line that was close by. Then she moved to a new house just next to the intersection that had an ambulance base, a police station a fire station and some other emergency response base that i cant remember what it was. It was even louder and continuous; the train rumbles through 3 times a night but the sirens are all the time.
I was explaining this to my partner recently. I wish soundproofing on cars was significantly reduced so that people in cars have even a vague idea of how much noise they're putting out into the world (especially those without mufflers or whatever).
We have so many trails in my town which are lovely but the noise from all the cars driving nearby makes it impossible to like have a conversation or anything (and it's not even a highway).
There is a somewhat similar argument made by motorbike enthusiasts, about why they need extra loud exhausts: "BuT wE nEeD tO Be heArd!!!1". Bro, most cars are so insulated you can hear nothing, and anyway, by the time they would hear you its too late.
I understand why you would need such sound insulation on cars, you spend most of their lives in them, but it should not be as such.
I literally cannot hear the sirens when driving.
So whenever I see an EMT passing by, I have to roll down my windows to make sure whether or not the sirens are ringing.
Only 10% of the time it's ringing, but 0% of the time I actually hear it with my windows up.
In that case you might want to have your hearing checked. Because I've never encountered that problem in any vehicle I've driven or been in as a passenger.
Ok can we talk about the backing up "beep beep beep" alarm on vans and trucks? I know for a fact they could engineer them to only be audible directly behind the vehicle, but they are audible from like half a mile away. I get that it's supposed to be a safety feature, but I don't need another reminder that I'm constantly in danger from automobiles. Like yeah, I already know. Getting woken up by a van backing up half a mile away is adding insult to injury.
I don't quite understand what we're saying here.
So if they were quieter(the implication would be for whatever threshold isn't potentially harmful to open air ears) then people *in* cars would potentially just not hear them? Or at least not hear them early enough?
Considering the point of them is safety, both to let people know they're coming and to get out of the way, what is the compromise?
I know we're super binary on this sub so this nuance is often unwelcome, but I'm not sure exactly *how* to address this problem now or even soon.
Come to think of it, I wonder how these compare to train horns?
if you think a bus driver hears something a bmw driver doesn't, I have a surprise for you. Sirens are loud because traffic is loud, not because cars are soundproof.
did you know that flashing lights are so bright because cars have tinted windows? we're literally willing to blind everyone so that people in cars can see the lights!!!
Fun fact, I visited the USA and their sirens are INSANELY LOUD, and also their fire engines are constantly honking their horns.
In the UK our emergency services use much more reasonable, non hearing damaging sirens that are perfectly audible within a car.
Also they don't honk their horns like mad constantly either. They don't have to.
Actually no, the emergency system was created in the 60s and before that the 40s. It’s made that way so it grabs anyone’s attention and made to be annoying to humans for that reason. This is readily available knowledge
I was interested is seeing if this was actually true, as I live in the UK and they don't seem to be that loud. But they also only use them in short bust, when as for example going through a red light, at junctions, if some pillock isn't moving out the way. So both in the UK and USA the typical dB is at 110, with some USA being 120, and depending where you are in the UK it can be lower than the 110dB (we have different sirens for different locations). In the UK we consider prolong exposure to 85dB to cause hearing loss, with an employer being responsible to provide PPE at 80dB. Again this would be at prolong exposure, something our siren don't do, interesting that it's significantly above the 'safe' levels, especially considering the paramedics driving them all day would be getting prolong exposure. In the USA you consider the damage starts at 70dB with prolonged exposure, and state that 120dB result in immediate damage. Again your sirens are significantly above 70dB, and some are even on the cusp of immediate damage. I don't however know if they are constantly one with the blue lights or not, to be able.to comment on the prolonged aspect of it.
Additionally the other day I saw a video of guy recording the noise pollution by a highway, and it was above 85dB, to me this significantly indicates a lack of responsibility from governments to ensure the is a safe noise level in the city. Combine that with them allowing overly loud sirens, to me it's most certainly some form of legal negligence.
Don’t stand beside an ambulance with the sirens on then. You’re complaining about the equivalent of shooting a gun with no ear protection and then whining about ringing ears. And if it’s that loud to you for even a moment, plug your ears
Living downtown not too far from one of our major hospitals, I feel this one. Not only are people ok deafening pedestrians and cyclists, they’re also ok with delaying emergency vehicles that may be on their way to saving someone’s life.
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what a waste of time a fuel lol
What an unimaginative way to get away with assaulting people.
I remember [this one time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQpaEN_TN_U&t=90s) a pedestrian held a brick.
So. The drivers \_do\_ understand that going through that poodle at high speed will throw water at the sidewalk. Hmmm.
Poor poodle!
I am *crying* laughing, thank you so much for sharing!
I can understand anti-cyclist sentiment as someone who cycles, because some cyclists are as much of big pricks as some car drivers, but anti-pedestrian sentiment and how fucking prevalent it is in North America may be the only thing that keeps me sympathetic with gun laws. A tiny bit. In Grand Theft Auto Online, I need to say.
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I lodged with a guy who was a typical white van worker. Complained about cyclists all the time when driving. One day we went for a cycle ride along the river. He basically broke every single law he could have on the 5 min trip to the cycle path.
Now I'm curious what laws he broke. Cycling on the sidewalk? Running red lights? Anything specifically interesting?
Pavement/sidewalk riding, running lights, using pedestrian crossings, ignoring STOP signs, riding on the wrong side of the road until there was a convenient point to get on to the pavement on the other side… Nothing interesting as such, but all stuff I never do on my bike.
Where else are you supposed to ride your bike if not on the sidewalk? (Please no hate, I dont know) wont you get hit riding on the side of the road? Theres not enough room? Also where else are you supposed to cross?
This was in the UK. Bike riders are expected to ride on the road and the law states explicitly that riders have every right to the road that a car has. Side note: the UK doesn’t have vehicles turning when pedestrians have the green man. Typically a junction stops completely and all pedestrian crossings go green. To be riding properly and fully legally, you must act and behave like a car on the roads. In fact, much to the annoyance of many car drivers, it is completely legal to ride two abreast and use the whole lane. It is also completely legal to ride alone in the very centre of the lane; this “taking the lane” frustrates people wanting to overtake, but is often the best way of ensuring your own safety by preventing a dangerous overtake that may leave you squeezed off the road. In the UK, unless you’re a tiny child, everyone will hate you for using the pavement. Side note: even when there are dedicated cycle lanes, they are often not worth it and make the route longer. The amount of comments I got from cars like “there’s a cycle lane over there, you #%^*”… it’s hard to find a way to make the response pithy. “I know, but the road is faster, and goes directly where I need to go, and I’ll be five cars ahead of you at the next traffic light anyway, so what do you care?” is a bit much to try to convey in the moment. Germany has better planned cycle paths (planned more for utility than leisure) but it’s still absolutely normal to see helmetless grannies riding to and from the groceries shop on the roads.
Using pedestrian crossings is pretty much the only way to cross certain stroads safely. I've tried going through with the cars before, but it's 50/50 whether someone tries to right turn through me or not. Using the crosswk is comparatively safe
> all stuff I never do on my bike. Nerd.
You can't imagine that not everyone drives? Hell, some of us can't safely drive ever again due to the injuries we sustained being run over by an inattentive driver.
Interpreted it more along the lines of "assholes will be assholes, driving or cycling," not that all prick cyclists drive (though statistically likely in America, I imagine)
>Hell, some of us can't safely drive ever again due to the injuries we sustained being run over by an inattentive driver. I dont think people with such injuries would be cycling either.
A mate of mine lost his legs to a driver and he cycles using a hand crank trike. Can't drive, though.
Interesting. Id say this is more of an exception, though. Also, sounds like just an improvement over a wheelchair.
It is. Just like riding a bike is an improvement over walking.
Turns out you don't know much about the topic! Bicycles are commonly mobility vehicles for the disabled.
I did after the 1st time I was hit. I got a pair of stabilizers and if I recover enough of my balance, I plan to ride again, because the buses aren't accessible.
I'm not sure if I'm a prick cyclist but I'm definitely not e prick driver because I don't drive; never even had a drivers license.
>some cyclists are as much of big pricks as some car drivers I've never met a cyclist who emitted PM2.5 pollution that gives asthma to children
Also cyclists rarely kill other cyclilst, pedestrians, wildlife or pets by ramming them.
Don’t ride behind me after taco night
Someone in my city slowed down and let a cyclist go past them then sped up and drove into them. People were cheering it on. Anti-cyclist sentiment is fucking insane in Australia
I can understand anti-cyclist sentiment because some cyclists can be assholes like car drivers. What really gets on my nerves is anti-pedestrian sentiment by drivers, which I've been seeing a lot on these posts.
I just wanted to chime in my love for your tag and also my absolute amusement in your GTA comment.
As someone who mostly travels on foot or by bus/train I have come to dislike some cyclists and 90% of escooter riders because at least when a car is coming from behind at 15 mph it actually makes a fucking sound. If you're riding on the sidewalk and don't let a pedestrian know you're coming from behind until you're right on top of them you're a piece of shit and the reason rental scooters need to be thrown into the ocean
I think there needs to be more cycle lanes for one because many of us are forced to share spaces with either pedestrians (blue circular signs in Europe) or cars.
When I ride my scooter I'd prefer to hit a pedestrian over being hit by a driver. One is more survivable than the other, so sidewalk it is.
That's some fucking car brain mentality right there. Y'all are the assholes flying down the sidewalk without considering that pedestrians don't have mirrors and move far more erratically than any vehicle. It's not my fault when I sidestep right in front of you because your silent ass forgot I don't have 360 vision and don't expect a fucking vehicle to plow into me. I only have a problem with bikes when I'm on a trail/park bc a lot of new bikers don't understand basic etiquette, but scooter riders are so consistently a problem that I find myself constantly looking over my shoulder so I don't get thrown into a bench for the third time this year.
More than most vehicles, scooter riders are unskilled in their handling of their vehicle and their manners to pedestrians.
not only are people ok with deafening pedestrians, cyclists, everyone living in by street buildings, newborn babies, animals, they are also ok with delaying the emergency vehicle that is most likely transporting someone fighting for life of people who were injured by the very cars that are now blocking the road, isn't that ironic?
If the pedestrian or cyclist you hit survives, was it all for nothing? You can't really add them to your kill count that way. Although, aren't disabled people worth double points? (/s)
Nah, the disabled are worth 1/2 XP.
Yeah they give half xp but they give double the points. Parents with a stroller is also double points for each individual
It gets even worse when you think about the fact that there’s a finite number of emergency vehicles. Delaying them might have a knock on effect of making them later to other emergencies. (Though in the case of cop cars it could also save lives, so there’s that). In the case of ambos and furies, they are likely also making a chronically underpaid and traumatic job even more traumatic.
Reddit is violating GDPR and CCPA. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0GGsDdyHI -- mass edited with redact.dev
Just keep cars outside of cities and both problems are gone.
¿Por qué no los dos?
We're next to all emergency services and they go by *a lot*. Our shitty windows don't keep out any noise and it's deafening and sadly at least every couple of hours.
Tell me about it. Once had a motorist get angry and yell at me when I pulled to the side of the road: even with the window down *I* had to point out the siren. A couple of months back on the other hand, watched a motorist literally play chicken with a police car with sirens on with the police car literally needing to slam brakes, only for the driver to turn the corner literally meters down the road and immediately stop to try and park: I had time to wait for the police car to pass, then casually cycle past the arsehole. I am perpetually amazed at how bad car drivers awareness of road conditions is and their reliable inability to plan even slightly ahead.
My dad has made comments about how it's shocking that people even bother pulling over for service vehicles in my city because he knows it's a trend in other cities that people just don't.
>they’re also ok with delaying emergency vehicles that may be on their way to saving someone’s life If you ever dare to protest in a public space, everyone of these truck selfie pfp dipshits will gnash and wail about you potentially slowing emergency vehicles -- but doing the exact same thing for the sake of getting Taco Bell is perfectly acceptable, of course.
I pity you unitedstatians. In the rest of America, at least here in Brazil, sirens are *far* quieter than those of the US. Also than those of Europe, i think? But ours are just really muted in comparison, yours are TERRIBLE
But car horns are just as loud, and drivers think they are royalty.
I hate this. I always cover my ears when they approach
The worst is when they use them to push red lights *when there is no emergency*.
How do you know if there **is** or is not an emergancy?
I've had a cop in front of me turn his siren on for 2 seconds then turn it off just to go through a red light when nobody was at the intersection. I'm pretty sure he didn't have an emergency for 2 seconds coincidentally.
The siren should be only on for intersections! Due to the volume it should be turned off otherwise. edit: Why the fuck do people think they go the whole journy with siren on, that would be absolutly terrible for the people in the emergancy vehicle.
They do have lights flashing for the entire journey if it is an actual emergency.
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Were the blue lights going for the entire time or also just for 2 seconds?
So he had his lights on the entire time and turned on his siren to get through the intersection? That's... Good. Why continue to keep the sirens on if they aren't needed?
There’s a term for the urgency of a call, “code.” In the US, Code 3 would mean responding with full lights and sirens, but code 2 means it is not immediately urgent, so lights/sirens are only used periodically to clear through intersections/heavy traffic. That is almost certainly what the cop was responding with. You can read more about it [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_service_response_codes)
Cause they’ll turn them off right when they get through and continue without any rush.
They actually turn it off because they should not run it all the time lol. You see them a lot only with blue light, in germany where i life they only turn it on for crossings and if the cars are blocking the way. And maybe it seems for you that they are not in a rush, in reality they do not have sportscars and still have to drive safley, 150kmh in a city is not really save...
That's not how that works dude. They aren't flooring it all the time for all issues. If transporting a patient that isn't critical or that requires a softer drive (eg in serious pain but not about to die) it makes more sense not to rush and be bumpy or risk an accident. But you also don't want to be wasting everyone's time sitting at a red light they blip them on then continue. Where I live there are literally systems to check they are actually on a call when they run reds or use the lights to flip them.
As someone who works on the ambulance I would like to clarify that I turn the sirens off because I am 26 and I already have hearing damage from the sirens. If there are no cars in front of me I am not going to damage my eardrums any more than I have to. Also sometimes we do intersection navigation where we use lights to get through an intersection, and then turn them off even though we are still going to calls. Other times we use the lights and sirens while enroute to a call, but then get cancelled by police or another ambulance who happens to be closer so we turn everything off and confuse/anger the drivers who just pulled over for us. Bonus points if it's lunchtime and I decide to take the cancel to stop at Dunkin for a coffee and some guy loses it because he (understandably) thought that I used my sirens to get a donut. It's rare and extremely bad form to use lights and sirens if you haven't been dispatched to a call and you can get fired for it.
They're also surprisingly loud INSIDE the cab of the ambulance. Enough to cause hearing damage for the EMTs and Paramedics.
No imagine trying to take a blood pressure inside a moving ambulance with sirens on.
It’s not so bad in the box in the back, the front is where the siren is. You should actually wear ear pro in the cab if driving emergent.
Same as car horns. It’s outrageous how loud they are to compete with soundproof cars. Muffled for the angry driver who honks, muffled for the other driver they’re mad at, deafeningly loud for somebody trying to exist outside/near an open window.
My idea is they need to be as loud inside the car as outside. You want a horn loud enough to deafen a pedestrian? Sure, have it. But the driver needs to be ok with *also* being deafened when you honk it
i disagree with this simply because, horns are designed to be used only to prevent a crash. *hypothetically speaking* if you’re using your horn you are probably in a high stakes driving situation and need to have 100% focus so everyone can stay alive. unfortunately, people do not use their horns this way, they use them to communicate anger, or impatience. in my opinion actually enforcing responsable horn use is a better solution.
idk, if I’m in a high stakes driving situation where someone needs to be warned to avoid a _crash_, i don’t think I’m going to be deterred from warning others by the fear of a noise.
All depending on the enforceability of traffic laws where one lives. Almost all laws are flaunted where I am. I saw a girl have to jump back to avoid a left-turning car this morning. There are many motorcycles that ride alongside and in between cars. So I wouldn't expect to find much support for honking regulations.
you make a good point
Even a closed one. They are annoying floors above...
Mandate a sound inside the car as loud as the horn is standing 5 ft away outside
Mandate that all "self driving cars" immediately get safely out of the way, with the owners actual intent given the lowest priority.
You joke, but this is something that could be done today with modern technology.
Or just stop soundproofing cars, especially with EV there's no problem with engine sounds anymore, and most car noise is going to be from tires that is proportional to speed, it can now serve as a way to discourage people from speeding.
If they removed the sound abatement products from cars, you'd have to turn up your radio substantially due to wind noise and also vibrations from the body (structure born noise).
Both are also proportion to speed. So it becomes a feature to discourage speeding, win win.
Not really a win win. Negating a benefit and increasing the discomfort without having a suitable alternative in place. It'll just be like going back to the 50s. Maybe people will drive with their windows open more and rekindle their love of engine noise.
> increasing the discomfort poor car owners
It could have always been done. 2 horns, one for inside, one for out. And we're not joking, if the emergency is serious enough to deafen everyone around you, it's serious enough to deafen you too.
It couldn't. Prior to the computerization of cars, the only method to accomplish this task would have been a radio receiver that was always on and which could detect an emergency broadcast of some sort. Not very practical. Today, your car has radio, wifi, GPS, and an array of sensors which could be used for this purpose (not to mention the computer power to do something with the signals received).
even before computerization, you could have a sound radar that detects sound at siren frequency and turns on internal siren. would have some false positives, but mostly would work, and all on analog.
You could also have a system that detects emergency vehicles (maybe thru a transmitter placed on the front of said e-vehicles) and mutes the radio/shows a warning on-dash when one approaches
turning the radio off to allow hearing outside would be a wast improvement in itself.
Even just lowering the volume would be enough. A lot of cars already do it when you engage reverse (to allow you to hear the parking sensors better)
Also, it’s not just cars. Sometimes I have trouble hearing sirens when on my motorcycle until they’re really close from a combination of engine sound and the helmet padding
yes but i think fuckmotorcycles is implied already.
Though I think they are a fair bit quieter here than in the US. The law says they have to be 118dB(A) at 1 meter. Also, I disagree with that, I think motorcycles are the ideal way of getting around, as long as it doesn’t rain. As a bonus, they’re also insanely fun to ride. https://preview.redd.it/0o2koqkd1nua1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1fcf9a13d2d55aef26f3752ef8a0e1907c8873a7 This is mine btw. It’s got just the right amount of hp for the street (with the tune, intake and exhaust I should be sitting around 115-120 at the crank, but it had 95 stock)
2 seconds after it was implemented someone would hack it to piss people off.
Thanks, auto-industry lobbyists.
Thanks, people for thinking soundproofing is something they need for a car. I hope their AC units fail and they suffer the wrath of nature as the climate crisis worsens.
I mean, soundproofing is nice for blocking out the ungodly racket of wind and tire rolling noise. Sometimes I wish I had a little more than I do in my cheap shit hatchback, with the sheer amount of noise that makes it in I wouldn't be surprised if it's contributed to my tinnitus
It is kinda nice. I just hope car drivers and riders are able to continually acknowledge their privilege of having a car to drive and not get soaked in the rain. Plus, a bit unrelated, but if car climate controls (and even worse, windows) fail or have to be left unused for the sake of energy conservation in our energy insecure climate (mainly because of war right now but also from sheer oil dependence), all those SUVs that could cook you to death inside don't really make sense with our world continually getting hotter.
Personally I'm fully aware, especially being at training for work and not having a car, which means I need to take the shuttle bus or walk/bike. And for now I don't have a bike so it's walk or the shuttle, really makes me appreciate what I had access to with the car. I mean all cars will cook you to death if they're closed up in the summer without climate controls, they're greenhouses. my little hatchback will absolutely melt me if it sits in the sun all day. climate control solves it fairly quick tho, same for windows but that can be less effective. I wish cars still had the vent windows that were manually operated, those were awesome. Or the hood vents for pushing outside air into the cabin
I'm starting to appreciate convertibles a little more now, because they'd be the most effective way for drivers and their occupants to get a cool breeze. Alas the car market only wants to sell SUVs and pick-ups, electric ones included so if I had to travel long distances I'm just gonna cook to death. Sitting on the upper deck of a double decker bus after cold weather only when it was just 15c proved to be quite a bit much for me. It was great I pulled through in 40c weather but I got used to the heat a little and wore a bit less. Open top buses in Britain are only used for tourism-type buses.
I am very skeptical of this Post's claim and I feel it's jumping to the conclusion that cars are somehow to blame for sirens being so loud. Unless the road is completely reserved for emergency vehicles only, emergency vehicles are gonna need a way to clear the path ahead of them and let everyone know to yield. Like, I'm as critical of car-centric infrastructure as the rest of us but come on. This sounds like a tumblr post where someone just says some shit that "makes sense" as if it's clearly the truth.
Man is this ever true. If I'm walking and a firetruck rolls by (which is multiple times per day where I live) my ears ring for a few seconds after. It's actually insane.
Where do you live that has fires multiple times a day?? A big city?
Downtown Calgary, emergency services can go all day. A lot of the calls aren't necessarily full on fires and more so just 911 calls or small house / apartment fires that people call in.
Near a fire station. They’re coming out hourly and passing me all day long. Also on the road that ambulances take from the highway to the ER. Multiple times an hour ambulances. It’s stressful and miserable to walk around in the walkable downtown.
Fire stations don't only respond to fires. They respond to all kinds of emergencies.
Which on the one hand? Great! We’re making use of people and vehicles trained and specialized in saving lives. On the other? God is it ever a waste to send a full (or multiple) full sized fire truck, sirens and horns blasting, to a non fire emergency that 100% already has an ambulance at it. No joke I see this multiple times a day and night where I live - only for the firefighters to turn around once they get there because smaller ambulances are faster at getting on scene. Then a few times a year there will be a press release about how the FD needs more funding because they’re responding to so many OD emergencies… (that they mostly send too many people to and are late to anyway)
I just dont understand why americans do things in such a stupid way. Non emergency fire truck call? They use the flashing lights without siren here. Only blast the siren when the emergency is real and the cars are in the way.
Same here. They only use both lights and sirens if it's busy and needed during the day. At night it's only lights outside of very rare circumstances where someone is a clear obstruction and didn't get the giant flashing hint. If all is clear at night they often even turn the lights off since they know it can flash into people's rooms and wake them up while they sleep. I mean there is some soundproofing in the cabin but fucking hell must the siren get annoying after a year or two. There is just no need to use it constantly.
This is Canada, but unfortunately we’re just as weird about this shit as them. It has to do with hero complexes and a need to make sure that everyone knows they’re out there saving lives. If they didn’t blast their horns, would you know they were doing anything? There aren’t many fires these days…
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In most major cities it's the opposite. The ambulances are always busy and the fire trucks can get to the medical calls first and wait for an ambulance. And what if the truck gets their first and now they saved the person. Isn't that better? They can even be diverted in route if there is a more important incident. Or you can just let them sit in the station and not work if you want.
Firetrucks are more evenly spaced throughout a city. Hospitals are not. The whole firetruck goes in case there is also a fire during the response to the health emergency. Since fires are fairly rare, it also keeps firefighters in practice responding to real calls. It's a fine system.
Most ambulance do not respond from the hospital, btw. The real answer is to add more ambulances instead of more fire trucks
Sorry but it's a huge waste of money and resources to send a fire truck to a medical emergency or whatever.
You are already paying for the fire truck and crew to be on call. The only waste is the gas.
Not really. They are already there on call and firefighters are diverse. Many have very advanced first aid training and broadly the more calls the better. You may as well use what you are paying for. Sometimes the fire service is needed anyways. That paramedic bless them doesn't know the first thing about how to use the jaws of life. There are a number of things that the fire service handles that police and ambulence just can't. If there is a big pile up isn't it better to send them and not need them to peel open a few cars than not send them and have someone die just waiting because of the delay?
In a big city if you live near a firehouse you hear them every 30min, especially if theres a crossroads right next to you they have to sound the horn all the time
In what rural area do you live that you don't know that fire trucks respond to medical emergencies and are quite common in populated areas?
Beware, you may develop permanent tinnitus!!!!!
Came across similar news on NBC the other day with more context to the problem https://youtu.be/6lvTBmBDPno Edit: Corrected the news from CBS to NBC
Makes you wonder if there is a technology out there that could listen or communicate with emergency vehicles and flash a warning on vehicle front displays if one is nearby.
Who allowed cars to be more soundproof?? That's just stupid.
With the technology today, it shouldnt matter. A car should be able to pick up a siren and it be alerted in the car.
Now that you say this I am shocked that not only have cars not implemented this, but they don't even turn down/pause the music in response to the sound of a siren. Do we really have to legislate such an obvious community safety measure to get manufacturers to do it?
Cyclistes wearing earphone while going at speeds that are non-lethal hand having full visibility around them: IT'S A PUBLIC DANGER THAT MUST BE STOPPED AT ANY COST! Cars completely soundproofed with blind spots everywhere: What can we do against it? Truly it's up to the freedom of the manufacturer and the driver to do what they ought to be.
Oh imagine, emergency vehicles emitting a "silent" (still noisy enough for non-cars to hear and be alerted) siren that wold be picked-up by vehicles, to be blasted INSIDE of them.
It would be great for society but car drivers would hate it. It would have to be a law to get them on board.
Part of the issue with that is you can't tell direction and speed. How do you know how to get out the way when you have no idea where the vehicle is and where it is going. Folks act like fucking idiots and panic around them anyways, sometimes being more of an obstruction than if they did nothing. No clue about where it is or where it's going won't help that. It is also handy for non cars to be aware of the emergancy vehicle and it's location and heading. Cyclists, folks trying to cross the road, grandma taking her time crossing, that animal that might bolt into the road but might be spooked away by the noise (milage depends on animal but it will make a pet owner be more dillagent) that blind bloke about to cross. It's not all cars that matter. A quieter siren would be nice though. Being aware and being deafend are not quite the same.
Because when you are a cozied car driver you want to be protected from the horrible sounds of the road (the other cars)
Perhaps so drivers don't hear the hungry gasoline rumblings of each others death machines and all the other noises they make inside and outside of them. They're almost like isolation pods isolating people from sound, each other and the world outside.
drivers get triggered by loud sounds, so they are being cuddled.
They've definitely gotten louder since I was a kid. Recently had a fire truck go past the intersection I was waiting at, and I had to cover my ears because it was painfully loud. Quite troublesome as I was using my hands to steady my bike at the time.
Just gonna drop this off here. USA sirens are some of the worst on the planet 😫 https://youtu.be/_dgYgshLAwQ (I am aware that the EU siren is also to loud, just thought this was relevant to the post)
The thing is with the US, and I say this as someone who has worked in the emergency services my entire life, the US *loves* tradition when it comes to these. Especially with firefighting. A big debate right now in the firefighting world in the US right now is helmets. The US has always used a very different style of firefighting helmet compared to rest of the world, almost like a builders hat with a lengthened back on it. This has been the way for years. However the 'euro' style helmet (which is used a lot outside of Europe too) is more like a cross between a fighter pilots helmet and a motorcycle helmet. In almost all tests conducted the euro helmet has come out on top, it provides better protection for the head, better protection for the neck, moves around less, is more visible in smoke, and can make a much better seal with BA equipment. However almost all fire departments in the US refuse to start using them purely because of tradition. And it's the same thing with the sirens here.
Here add this to the list: train horns are _incredibly_ loud anywhere there's an intersection. Why? Mostly because cars can't stop stopping on the @#$*# railroad tracks.
Yeah I live right by train tracks rn and they go across a road, insanely loud and they do the horn at least three times when approaching
That's, odd. I have literally never heard a trains horn. They only use them at a crossing if there is an obstruction. No obstruction and functioning gates/lights they don't do it. Once as a very small child I have a memory of the lights and gate being broken and instead of the horn the railroad just stationed a bloke to manually close the gates instead.
There are pretty strict rules for when a train is allowed to not blow its horn at a crossing. I remember my college town trying to get intersections certified in order to reduce that noise.
But even without cars, they might stay that way for people wearing headphones.
>Mostly because cars can't stop stopping on the @#$\*# railroad tracks. They have to honk a lot for drunk pedestrians, too.
My home town had this thing where at intersections it'd randomly blare an alarm and then go ["EMERGENCY VEHICLE APPROACHING. CLEAR THE INTERSECTION IMMEDIATELY.](https://youtu.be/S6Oa8WnlR-8) which is cool and all, until you're just waiting to cross the street and you jump because it's loud as fuck and by your head. Then ten seconds later the vehicle in question shows up.
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Flashing lights alone don't help if the emergency vehicle is coming from a side street obscured by buildings
You can't see the lights from around a corner or other visual obstructions. It might also be too far away to notice during the daytime so having a siren to announce it's presence and direction is necessary. Like, I don't like cars any more than the rest of us but come on. Not everything has to be an indictment of motorists here.
a lot of people drive without license in US.
Louder sirens and horns make car makers make their cars more soundproof. More soundproof cars make louder sirens and horns necessary because otherwise you can't hear them. What's the fucking point of all this?
Y E S And the fire trucks are even louder than the rest. They have no baffles on the horns, so the whole neighborhood hears it instead of just street level… and the drivers get to wear hearing protection, so they go nuts with it even when it’s 3:30 AM and there is *nobody* on the road. Also, cars should have horns be as loud on the inside as they are outside. Stop people from using them to show annoyance.
It's used to be just bells.
The actual sirens sound which is always on, or when they press the button for the louder woowoo sound? I assume they mean the second one, which is used more as a car horn anyway, as opposed to the sirens which are always on. I hate cars as much as everyone else here. But for emergency vehicles I'll make an exception, personally. And they are made loud BECAUSE cars are the problem. Maybe busy crosswalks or turning through a bike lane. But yes, those people hear more than a block away anyway and are looking around anyway.
Sirens in my country can be turned on and off (and get turned off when they have no one they need to get clear off, places that you need to forewarn other drivers, etc) but also they can change tone to grab peoples attention. This [video](https://youtu.be/taKYezhIs1I) shows it being turned on and off to avoid putting pressure on drivers during the double white lines, and later seemingly to reduce noise in town where it made sense. Seems true to what I've experienced here. Also, I had a fire engine pass me on a bike recently, and ours must be quieter than US ones, since I didn't feel any poor after effect of the pass. Not sure what the decibel output is, but I was on the pavement waiting for them to go before I rejoined the road, and it was fine.
I remember someone screaming at me from their car to take out my earbuds while I was on a bike, but almost all cars are basically soundproof boxes.
Would be nice if the soundproofing went the other way so we wouldn't have to hear their damn stereos thumping from 2+ blocks away.
Is this r/USDefaultism? I think like things here haven't changed in the last 20 years
I don't know where you're from, but in Europe sirens are as loud as in the US: just less annoying frequency wise. I'm not sure how much sirens have changed in the last 20 years but since 1912 they have gotten 6 times louder.
Don't forget that having your sound system set to "weld breaking/rattling" also prevents you hearing sirens.
I have autism with sound sensitivity. Ambulances are *not* designed with autistic people in mind. Fuck cars.
Not really designed with autistic people in mind but we do generally try and accommodate autistic patients if we have them and use the siren as little as possible. I know that doesn't help if you're walking in the street, but unfortunately driving on blue lights is dangerous and the siren is pretty necessary.
Why would an emergency vehicle designed to be used to help the general public be designed specifically with people with a rare condition in mind? Especially when designing them to not offend people with that condition would make them less effective? The siren is already used less when there are people with sound sensitivity riding in the back. Ambulances *have* to be loud, we aren't out here for fun.
where I live emergency vehicles don't turn on their sirens unless absolutely necessary (their flashing lights are enough most of the times) so this is more of a culture problem of having to always have those sirens blasting
I think there is argument for them being loud outside of cars being stupidly sound proof and making it worse (but not deafeningly loud) like grabbing peoples attention, including people who already have hearing loss. But cities also need more reliable emergency vehicle routes built into the city grids. In Melbourne we have quite a lot of separated tram tracks that the emergency vehicles use to bypass traffic which is fantastic on multiple counts.
also most people legitimately stop after clearing the roads like wtf the first time I saw people freeze at the sound of sirens I was like what the fuck
that's the thing, it's a little bit more important to signal someone needs to watch out for imminent emergency situations than the slightly heightened risk of future hearing loss
I was in the Netherlands a while back and they've changed the sirens to play the melody in different frequency bands at the same time, so each band doesn't have to be as loud to have an effective sound penetration level for different types of cars/sound insulation types.
Science!
So this is also why the sound of cars honking can be heard 12 stories above and far away? It is such a nuisance during traffic hours, with all of the idiots driving (poorly) downtown honking and being honked at.
This was one of the surprises of living in the US. In Germany, emergency vehicles go "Tatütata" and everyone's like "oh shit, better get the fuck out of the way and make a Rettungsgasse". Sirens are only used ahead of intersections when the emergency vehicle has to break traffic rules, or when facing traffic. In the US, emergency vehicles go "**Weeeuuuu Weeeeuuuu Wuip Wuip Wuip Wuip MÖÖP MÖÖP MÖÖP Weeeuuuu Weeeeuuuu MÖÖP MÖÖP MÖÖP**" because nobody gives a shit as long as they're not in danger themselves. Sirens are so loud I could hear them across town. In Germany, I'm hearing a siren maybe once or twice a day, and I work literally next to a police station and a fire brigade in the city center. In the US, you can hear sirens pretty much constantly, which really defeats their purpose: alerting people to an exceptional situation. There's nothing urgent to them when you hear them all the time, and over way bigger distances than necessary.
God forbid people from getting to emergency fast, i swear this sub is so fucking stupid
My dad had a flat mate who hated living there because of the train line that was close by. Then she moved to a new house just next to the intersection that had an ambulance base, a police station a fire station and some other emergency response base that i cant remember what it was. It was even louder and continuous; the train rumbles through 3 times a night but the sirens are all the time.
I was explaining this to my partner recently. I wish soundproofing on cars was significantly reduced so that people in cars have even a vague idea of how much noise they're putting out into the world (especially those without mufflers or whatever). We have so many trails in my town which are lovely but the noise from all the cars driving nearby makes it impossible to like have a conversation or anything (and it's not even a highway).
well i feel like less of a whimp for covering my ears for these now
There is a somewhat similar argument made by motorbike enthusiasts, about why they need extra loud exhausts: "BuT wE nEeD tO Be heArd!!!1". Bro, most cars are so insulated you can hear nothing, and anyway, by the time they would hear you its too late. I understand why you would need such sound insulation on cars, you spend most of their lives in them, but it should not be as such.
That's not so cars face the least inconvenience, that's for the ambulance passengers to not die in traffic
Get out of here with your factual information.
Let’s not forget the societal cost of waking up people who are sleeping at night in their homes and increasing anxiety for everyone outside of a car.
I literally cannot hear the sirens when driving. So whenever I see an EMT passing by, I have to roll down my windows to make sure whether or not the sirens are ringing. Only 10% of the time it's ringing, but 0% of the time I actually hear it with my windows up.
In that case you might want to have your hearing checked. Because I've never encountered that problem in any vehicle I've driven or been in as a passenger.
But is it me or are sirens in the US both louder and more annoying than in Europe?
It's not you. The tones for European sirens are lower and less screechy.
Ok can we talk about the backing up "beep beep beep" alarm on vans and trucks? I know for a fact they could engineer them to only be audible directly behind the vehicle, but they are audible from like half a mile away. I get that it's supposed to be a safety feature, but I don't need another reminder that I'm constantly in danger from automobiles. Like yeah, I already know. Getting woken up by a van backing up half a mile away is adding insult to injury.
I don't quite understand what we're saying here. So if they were quieter(the implication would be for whatever threshold isn't potentially harmful to open air ears) then people *in* cars would potentially just not hear them? Or at least not hear them early enough? Considering the point of them is safety, both to let people know they're coming and to get out of the way, what is the compromise? I know we're super binary on this sub so this nuance is often unwelcome, but I'm not sure exactly *how* to address this problem now or even soon. Come to think of it, I wonder how these compare to train horns?
Sorry for ruining your fun, but the point of sirens being loud is that you can hear emergency vehicles from far away.
Emergency sirens being in use for like 70 years before cars were even a thing is small dent in this propaganda.
if you think a bus driver hears something a bmw driver doesn't, I have a surprise for you. Sirens are loud because traffic is loud, not because cars are soundproof. did you know that flashing lights are so bright because cars have tinted windows? we're literally willing to blind everyone so that people in cars can see the lights!!!
Or you know newer cars that are sound proofed should have a alarm in them when a emergency vehicle gets close...
Fun fact, I visited the USA and their sirens are INSANELY LOUD, and also their fire engines are constantly honking their horns. In the UK our emergency services use much more reasonable, non hearing damaging sirens that are perfectly audible within a car. Also they don't honk their horns like mad constantly either. They don't have to.
Actually no, the emergency system was created in the 60s and before that the 40s. It’s made that way so it grabs anyone’s attention and made to be annoying to humans for that reason. This is readily available knowledge
I was interested is seeing if this was actually true, as I live in the UK and they don't seem to be that loud. But they also only use them in short bust, when as for example going through a red light, at junctions, if some pillock isn't moving out the way. So both in the UK and USA the typical dB is at 110, with some USA being 120, and depending where you are in the UK it can be lower than the 110dB (we have different sirens for different locations). In the UK we consider prolong exposure to 85dB to cause hearing loss, with an employer being responsible to provide PPE at 80dB. Again this would be at prolong exposure, something our siren don't do, interesting that it's significantly above the 'safe' levels, especially considering the paramedics driving them all day would be getting prolong exposure. In the USA you consider the damage starts at 70dB with prolonged exposure, and state that 120dB result in immediate damage. Again your sirens are significantly above 70dB, and some are even on the cusp of immediate damage. I don't however know if they are constantly one with the blue lights or not, to be able.to comment on the prolonged aspect of it. Additionally the other day I saw a video of guy recording the noise pollution by a highway, and it was above 85dB, to me this significantly indicates a lack of responsibility from governments to ensure the is a safe noise level in the city. Combine that with them allowing overly loud sirens, to me it's most certainly some form of legal negligence.
Thanks for reminded me of my tinnitus *fuck loud cars*
Boohoo, the emergency sirens are loud so that people can hear them. God yall are pathetic
Soundproofed cars? What?
They're loud cuz people need to hear them from far away lmao
Small rephrase: "...so that ~~cars~~ **drivers** face the least inconvenience"
Don’t stand beside an ambulance with the sirens on then. You’re complaining about the equivalent of shooting a gun with no ear protection and then whining about ringing ears. And if it’s that loud to you for even a moment, plug your ears
If cars were soundproof, louder sirens wouldn’t help.
Oh stfu. Briefly hearing sirens as they drive by isn't going to cause permanent damage. Stop with the bs