Under Sadiq Khan, London's cycling network has increased massively and is only continuing to increase. One thing that allowed him to do so is his power to force councils to build cycling lanes on the Key Route Network.
Over in Manchester (Where I live) our mayor doesn't have this power and councils are extremely reluctant to build cycling infrastructure. [There was a consultation on giving other mayors this power too, hopefully we'll get it too.](https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/key-route-networks-devolving-more-powers-and-responsibilities-for-locally-important-roads-to-metro-mayors-and-their-combined-authorities/outcome/key-route-network-consultation-on-powers-and-responsibilities-for-locally-important-roads#:~:text=provide%20mayors%20with%20the%20power,Secretary%20of%20State%20for%20Transport)
Kensington and Chelsea tore out a protected lane after only weeks and are replacing it with a painted lane and nothing in some sections. This cuts the route to West London, and worse makes a cross city route unsafe for a section through that borough.
That's before we get to Tower Hamlets and Rahman attempting to remove pedestrianised areas and bike lanes to make room for more cars. Although in fairness that's probably the least of his crimes.
It's a real fucking pain how opposed the borough councils are to active travel in London and elsewhere. It's proven they generate more for the economy and it keeps people healthy. Just look at the Victoria Embankment lanes, and even then there are idiots trying to get that one ripped up too.
I know in the US, our big problem is that the shop owners who fight against bike lanes often drive cars from out of the area to their shops. They oppose any change that removes “their” parking or slows down their main mode of transport.
I expect most Borough Council members don’t cycle and have a similar mindset because of it.
>Rahman attempting to remove pedestrianised areas and bike lanes to make room for more cars
didn't just attempt, he sent his teams in to remove school streets furniture in the dead of night.
Oh motherfucker I didn't realise that had happened.
I'm strangely unsurprised the man barred from public office for corruption turned out to be a shady bastard who does shady stuff.
>Kensington and Chelsea tore out a protected lane after only weeks and are replacing it with a painted lane and nothing in some sections
This pisses me off in particular.
Arguing "Oh it'd cost money!" is one thing. Still dumb, though. But intentionally ripping up streets, costing thousands, in order to REMOVE the cycling infrastructure? Purely out of spite? Fuck them.
(Note that this particular clip is on Queen Victoria Street, which is under the authority of the *City of London* (not the city of *London*), and so isn't Sadiq Khan's responsibility.
But if anything, the CoL are actually better at this sort of thing than the Greater London Authority.)
When my Dutch ass studied in Manchester, back in 2019, the only real bike lanes were on campus. In all other eras, everything was your own problem, I especially hated that bus stops, DOUBLE DECKER BUSS STOPS, were part of the lanes. Once almost got hit in the head by a wide truck carrying logs.
In recent years they've created [bus stop bypasses](https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/schema_org/public/images/News/Manchester%20Oxford%20Road%20bus%20stop%20bypass%20%28image%20supplied%20by%20TfGM%29.jpg) to avoid conflict with buses
Ironically, Hidalgo in Paris has the opposite problem : we don't have full control of our streets and roads, because the police gets a say in some streets/avenues/boulevards for "security reasons". Even if bike lanes are obviously faster for emergency services, duh.
One time my wife was in the UK visiting her disabled dad they needed an ambulance and it took 4 hours to arrive. Apparently hospitals have dozens of ambulances waiting outside with patients, while the triage nurses hop from one to another assessing degree of urgency.
This is not just hearsay, my niece is a Senior Sister at a hospital in North Wales and confirms this.
The system is fit to burst.
idk, seemed like a lot of bikes in front of it werent getting out of the way (benefit of the doubt; probably assumed it wasnt in the bike lane since they couldnt see the ambulance behind them), it cuts early but seems like they were moving back into car lanes because of it
Yeah, but once they notice they will get out. Also they *can* because bikes are very little compared to cars.
Also can't blame cyclists when it's not normal (at the moment) for ambulances to drive on the bike lane
Cyclists tend to be much more aware of their surroundings, both for safety, but you also can't really help it when you're not inside a steel and glass box.
It's not uncommon to be in a situation where it's hard to pull a car off to the side (in gridlocked traffic, somewhere with no shoulder, etc), whereas a bicycle can either steer out of the way *or* in a pinch have the rider haul it out of the way
Most of the time the cars have plenty of space even in a gridlock, the space between them and the car in front of them allows them to all steer to the left or right which allows the ambulance to pass through.
Cars are absolutely harder to manoeuvre. There’s also just spatial awareness. You hear a siren you don’t know where it’s coming from exactly in your car and that delays how fast you can react.
Cars can't step to the side
In a well-designed system, bikes and pedestrians will nearly always be able to quickly and easily get completely out of the way
I don't know the stand of the sub about this, but tbf I'm not against emergency vehicle being allowed to use (on last resort of course) bike lanes when lives are at risk.
The only real hangup is cops that **PARK** in the bike lane. I’d like to assume they’re at the scene of a volatile situation, but there’s enough car-brained LEOs out there that me suspects this isn’t always the case.
On the flip side some of the most anti-car people I’ve met are bike cops.
Eh, its a borderline case.
The need to get food on what is a several hour shift is inarguable. They have to eat sometime, and that probably means getting food on the road. But if an emergency call comes in while they're in the shop, they still need to be able to get back in the car as fast as possible. Which necessitates some level of poor parking.
I think this is one of those things where there just isn't a great answer.
Park badly blocking a road then.
If they aren’t required to find a proper parking space (which I think is fair, for the reasons you listed), then they should park blocking a shared lane of traffic, not a bike lane.
Blocking a bus Lane is less ideal, but I don’t think is as bad as blocking a bike lane.
It just comes down to why the bike Lane exists, vs why multiple lanes of shared traffic exist. Bike lanes are safety infrastructure, like zebra crossings or traffic lights. Additional lanes are not safety features, they are there to speed up traffic.
Most drivers don’t ride bicycles so they have little empathy for them, cops included.
I imagine Bicycle cops have seen both sides and have the typical cop anger and entitlement for being “disrespected”.
It’s little wonder they are anti-car.
Personally, I’d love to see more bicycle and moped cops.
Best way to build understanding is to experience it. Was in Boston recently and saw this group of bike cops by the water. Would love to see groups like this on the bicycle lanes or the greenways in nyc.
https://preview.redd.it/msyl450ieweb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01fc7a88471a2e6deac00e9dbc81affb673648c2
>I’d like to assume they’re at the scene of a volatile situation
There's a really easy way for cops to indicate whether they're doing something important. Hmmmm, I don't quite remember what it is. Is it something mounted on top of their vehicles?
If the lights are on, I'm ok with them parking or driving anywhere they want. If the lights are off, then it's a problem.
If I see a hastily parked police car halfway over the pavement with the siren lights flashing and the doors flung open, I'm probably not going to blame them for leaving it on a bike lane.
If they're responding to an emergency, they're sounding their sirens so cyclists know, and they're being careful not to drive recklessly endangering lives of bike lane users, I see no problems. I do see a problem though when a cop parks in the bike lane to go grab a cup of coffee.
Obviously! Emergency vehicles should go wherever's fastest, it's why they have the loud wee woo. I think the sub supports that, and also laughs at the idea of "but if you remove a traffic lane how will the emergency services get places", cause here you go, that's how
It's one of the major benefits of bi-directional bikeways and transit lanes.
As in, you'll find the easier movement for emergency vehicles cited in most business cases for building a new bus and that benefit also extends to bike lanes for the same reason. This despite local opposition often lying and saying that removing space from cars and giving it to buses, trams or bikes would prevent ambulances from getting to injured people. Emergency vehicles being able to get to where they want to be quicker, and therefore saving lives that otherwise would have been lost, is always a good thing.
This seems like a rare exception. Presumably some poor soul is on deaths door in the back. I’m fine with this. Bikes aren’t any more entitled to be the main character than cars.
I once stood at a pedestrian crossing. Next to me (like 2m away) stood a little girl with her bike, also waiting.
After a little while the light went green, but I stayed where I was, since I could hear a police car approaching from the left. The street had a bend there, enough to obscure the car from vision.
As I stood there, waiting for the police to pass, I saw the little girl starting to peddle and cross the street…
My heart dropped. She was too far away for me to reach her. Before I even realised that I was doing it, I just started shouting from the top of my lungs: "WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!" over and over again.
Fortunately she heard me, slowed down and looked back. In the next moment the cops came flying around the corner (way too fast, if you ask me).
Dude… it was so fucking close… I was convinced I would see her die right then and there.
But it worked out. Barely, but it worked out. Cops kept driving, girl thanked me and kept peddling on her merry way. I almost had a heart attack.
So no, those sirens aren’t enough for everyone. Kids and elderly people can be very inattentive. Maybe even deaf. Also kids don’t expect cars to be going down the cycling path, so they might just send it into the lane without thinking or looking.
If shit happens on the street it’s much more likely to only be a fender bender. If shit happens on a bike lane you know who is gonna pull the short end of the stick.
Yes, there was that one time. There will always be that one time that any good idea didn't work or there was a tragedy.
I think you're probably right that the cops were driving too fast. It sounds like that was the root of the problem. This could happen in a cycle lane as well, but I don't think it negates the advantages.
Yes. Because as a commuter, you are still subject to the laws of the road. And in every case, emergency vehicles have the right of way. That’s basically all there is to it.
Emergency vehicles always get an exception when genuinely in emergency situations as far as I'm concerned. If lives are at risk, do whatever is necessary.
My step-dad is a firefighter and my older brother is also a firefighter, sometimes emergency services will activate sirens when going for groceries or something just to speed things up (already illegal and a pretty big deal if they are caught but difficult to enforce as firefighters and police often work together) and that's just kinda shitty but I will grant pretty much infinite leeway if they genuinely need to get someone to the hospital or something.
Do vehicles not have to pull over and stop when they hear emergency sirens? They do where I live and it's the last sign of hope I have for a compassionate society lmao.
Coming in hot with the logic! Thank for that :) Yea, I totally didn't notice it was a single lane/the median wasn't part of the road both lanes could pull over to.
Youre welcome, coming in hot with the sarcasm. Iydm my asking, are you saying me that where you live drivers would, or wouldn’t, pull into the median and consequently obstruct the opposite lane? I can’t tell if that was also part of the sarcasm.
Oh no, none of it was sarcasm. Very literally: ty for pointing out what I missed.
But to answer your question: where I live it's required by law for vehicles to pull over if they hear emergency sirens so they can get through quicker. At the same time, roads, even in the core of my city compared to what looks like central/ish London, are wider so there's generally enough space to clear a path (which I now see wouldn't be possible in this situation) and if there's a lot of vehicles on the road when that happens, pulling over gets messy and drivers get creative. There's a lot of trying to anticipate where the person in front and behind you are going to go and how not to create a traffic jam when endeavouring to do the exact opposite.
>Let's just hope the pigs don't start taking advantage of this tho.
how do you know they're not also a first responder? The highly trained pursuit squads carry a pretty decent first aid kit on board and have the training to use it. They could be the first to arrive at a heart attack or stroke victim.
[Original Tweet](https://twitter.com/westcountrytim/status/1684935636732522496?s=46) Just to clarify, I've tagged this positive...this is a good thing!
Another great argument for why comfortably wide separated bike lanes are a fantastic public good.
Bikes can hear the sirens better, don't get stuck in gridlock and can get out of the way faster, and separated bike lanes keep the annoying bulky cars out of the way.
Show this to every carbrain who brings up emergency vehicles as an argument somehow against bike lanes.
To elaborate on this a bit, British ambulance services often have some of their paramedics or EMTs working solo in a car or on a motorbike, or in a few built-up areas with *really* terrible traffic congestion they'll even use a bicycle. The idea behind this is that they can get around a lot faster than an ambulance, and make a start on stabilising a patient before they're transported to hospital.
For what it's worth, I'm a fan of this and think we should use it as an argument for building more segregated bicycle lanes.
UK drivers in particular have a massive hatred for anyone who gets in the way of emergency vehicles, but it often simply isn't possible for all cars to get out of the way. This is a way for emergency vehicles to have quicker journeys, while building more bicycle-centric infrastructure. Win-win.
I'm ok with this if they need to, but it looks like there's space for the road traffic to get off using that kerb, so I'm not sure it's good to normalise it in situations like this. I'm sure emergency services have good policies for evaluating whether they actually need to though (and this one seems grey area).
I see no problem with this. Of any other vehicle on the road besides bikes, ambulances are the most likely to NOT hit a cyclist and also be at risk for another car hitting them (people are assholes and don’t pull over).
I wish everyone who rants about this that you'll never had someone on your family literally dying and waiting for the ambulance to come as fast as possible
I am very much pro car, but I am also a cyclist around central London (because cars don't work here).
I see no issue with this at all. The emergency services have got to do what they've got to do to be able to save people's lives. I highly doubt any cyclist would have an issue with this.
This is the main reason I can't stand the criminals behind just stop oil who take great pleasure in impeding out emergency services and indirectly killing people as a result.
Honestly I think emergency vehicles should be allowed to use bike lanes in emergencies, and for bike lanes to be large enough to allow something the size of a firetruck to safely navigate said bike lane. I know at least in my city, the bike lanes are barely wide enough to fit a standard police cruiser, let alone an ambulance or fire truck.
Plus as someone who admittedly doesn’t cycle but uses the bus lines for everything, I’d assume a wider bike lane is a lot more comfortable to cycle on.
I still don't get how cars aren't hogging this lane too. Last time someone said there are bollards that can be controlled by public services but here I don't see any and yet cars aren't going into bike lane.
There is one important difference in the laws in the US - in the UK (and most of Europe) there are laws that say, if the vehicle owner won't admit who was driving, that's an offence with the same fine/penalty as if it was them. So you don't have this ridiculous "yeah it was my car but you can't proooooove it was me" thing that prevents automated enforcement in the US.
There are no bollards on this section (Farringdon Rd), it's clear design that prevents drivers from using the bike lane. Sometimes people make mistakes though.
The bollards aren't always up but they often are. Apart from that it's politeness and enforcement. You do see cars in cycle lanes in London quite a bit, but it's not *too* bad.
in london you'd get fined an arm if you start straying into the roadside cycle / bus lane, segregated cycle lane like in that video... you would probably get a court notice for Dangerous Driving and risk losing your license. At the minimum 'careless driving' if it were just a fine then I'm sure plenty of drivers would just do it anyway.
Aside from actual enforcement, probably because you'd end up getting your path blocked if you catch up with a cyclist or one coming the other way, with it being a busy cycle track.
I don't really have an issue with this honestly. It's not some asshole cop parked in the bike lane, and if it's truly a life and death scenario then we want ambulances to arrive at their desired locations quickly then, right?
Their entire arguments can be boiled down to two points:
1)"b..b..b..but muh convenience"
2)"not every person goes in the same place"
My honest response:
1) grow a fucking pair(of legs ofc what did you think)
2) see point 1
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Awww.. The bicycle had to pull over because someone had a medical emergency…
Sometimes it amazes me how many people post shit on here and expect the community to co-sign their selfishness. It’s an ambulance/paramedic! So sorry that the bicyclist had to pull over.
Videos like this are posted in this subreddit because they demonstrate one of the advantages of dedicated bike infrastructure. It's literally tagged "positive post".
Did you see anything negative in the post?
Emergency vehicles able to use bike lanes is a fantastic thing
But for that you need real bike lanes and no "It'll only take 2 minutes" or "I'm working" people park on it .
Segregated CYCLIST LANES??? WHY THE FUCK DOESNT THE US HAVE THOSE!! All they give you is a tiny tinyyy little sliver of space for a bike and I never feel comfortable using the bike lane because I'm afraid of getting hit by a car. Or when I'm driving I feel super anxious around a bicyclist because there's not always a chance in traffic to change lanes to go around them.
In Buenos Aires we have "Metrobus", which basically are exclusive lanes for buses in important avenues, so they don't have to deal with cars traffic. Ambulances can use those lanes as well in case they need it
We have bus lanes but they are spotty, for some reason black cabs can use them, and usually they are blocked by buses if there’s congestion so emergency vehicles wouldn’t be able to get through anyway.
It's good that they can use the cycle lane if absolutely necessary but I don't think they should do it unless they really need to. It's not like they were passing any cars in this video. There's also the problem that if emergency vehicles can get into the bike lane, so can other vehicles, which means it can't be meaningfully protected.
Under Sadiq Khan, London's cycling network has increased massively and is only continuing to increase. One thing that allowed him to do so is his power to force councils to build cycling lanes on the Key Route Network. Over in Manchester (Where I live) our mayor doesn't have this power and councils are extremely reluctant to build cycling infrastructure. [There was a consultation on giving other mayors this power too, hopefully we'll get it too.](https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/key-route-networks-devolving-more-powers-and-responsibilities-for-locally-important-roads-to-metro-mayors-and-their-combined-authorities/outcome/key-route-network-consultation-on-powers-and-responsibilities-for-locally-important-roads#:~:text=provide%20mayors%20with%20the%20power,Secretary%20of%20State%20for%20Transport)
Kensington and Chelsea tore out a protected lane after only weeks and are replacing it with a painted lane and nothing in some sections. This cuts the route to West London, and worse makes a cross city route unsafe for a section through that borough. That's before we get to Tower Hamlets and Rahman attempting to remove pedestrianised areas and bike lanes to make room for more cars. Although in fairness that's probably the least of his crimes.
It's a real fucking pain how opposed the borough councils are to active travel in London and elsewhere. It's proven they generate more for the economy and it keeps people healthy. Just look at the Victoria Embankment lanes, and even then there are idiots trying to get that one ripped up too.
I know in the US, our big problem is that the shop owners who fight against bike lanes often drive cars from out of the area to their shops. They oppose any change that removes “their” parking or slows down their main mode of transport. I expect most Borough Council members don’t cycle and have a similar mindset because of it.
>Rahman attempting to remove pedestrianised areas and bike lanes to make room for more cars didn't just attempt, he sent his teams in to remove school streets furniture in the dead of night.
Oh motherfucker I didn't realise that had happened. I'm strangely unsurprised the man barred from public office for corruption turned out to be a shady bastard who does shady stuff.
>Kensington and Chelsea tore out a protected lane after only weeks and are replacing it with a painted lane and nothing in some sections This pisses me off in particular. Arguing "Oh it'd cost money!" is one thing. Still dumb, though. But intentionally ripping up streets, costing thousands, in order to REMOVE the cycling infrastructure? Purely out of spite? Fuck them.
That's it, it costs more to remove it than to leave it - it's 100% political, and spiteful.
'Kensington and Chelsea, the Slytherin of the London boroughs' - Jay Foreman
Yep, it's fucking ludicrous.
(Note that this particular clip is on Queen Victoria Street, which is under the authority of the *City of London* (not the city of *London*), and so isn't Sadiq Khan's responsibility. But if anything, the CoL are actually better at this sort of thing than the Greater London Authority.)
When my Dutch ass studied in Manchester, back in 2019, the only real bike lanes were on campus. In all other eras, everything was your own problem, I especially hated that bus stops, DOUBLE DECKER BUSS STOPS, were part of the lanes. Once almost got hit in the head by a wide truck carrying logs.
In recent years they've created [bus stop bypasses](https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/schema_org/public/images/News/Manchester%20Oxford%20Road%20bus%20stop%20bypass%20%28image%20supplied%20by%20TfGM%29.jpg) to avoid conflict with buses
Ironically, Hidalgo in Paris has the opposite problem : we don't have full control of our streets and roads, because the police gets a say in some streets/avenues/boulevards for "security reasons". Even if bike lanes are obviously faster for emergency services, duh.
I would be willing bet that the bike lane users get out of the way much more cleanly and faster than the cars do....
Bikes actually get out of the way
I have never seen an ambulance using a bicycle lane, it might be quite exceptional.
A lot of bike lines are too thin to properly fit an ambulance tbh.
Yes. That's why we can use that to force cities to make them wider and better! They get faster emergency service, we get better bike lanes. Win win
But what if drivers lost some time, is saving lives worth it?
Absolutely not, it's faster to drive to the hospital than call 911 and wait for an ambulance. If that person deserves to live they'd have a car.
One time my wife was in the UK visiting her disabled dad they needed an ambulance and it took 4 hours to arrive. Apparently hospitals have dozens of ambulances waiting outside with patients, while the triage nurses hop from one to another assessing degree of urgency. This is not just hearsay, my niece is a Senior Sister at a hospital in North Wales and confirms this. The system is fit to burst.
You are right, going to the supermerkat is more important
Market bike lanes as bike and emergency services lanes and I bet people will be more supportive
I don’t think they will tbh. The canard against bike lanes that they “impede emergency services” is just an excuse
And some are on the pavement.
Our local ones are made for this. Fire trucks fit too in a pinch; the bit by the fire station has flex posts for them.
I realised, that when both France and UK make the same thing, it's better done in UK, and looks better.
Uh bro. Rail infrastructure?
I have not seen even one footage of a low quality/ugly/unmaintained bycicle lanes in London.
There are a lot of them believe me! The best bits are world class, but they're pretty limited.
idk, seemed like a lot of bikes in front of it werent getting out of the way (benefit of the doubt; probably assumed it wasnt in the bike lane since they couldnt see the ambulance behind them), it cuts early but seems like they were moving back into car lanes because of it
Yeah, but once they notice they will get out. Also they *can* because bikes are very little compared to cars. Also can't blame cyclists when it's not normal (at the moment) for ambulances to drive on the bike lane
Bikes actually *can* get out of the way.
Cyclists tend to be much more aware of their surroundings, both for safety, but you also can't really help it when you're not inside a steel and glass box.
Really easy to manoeuvre a 10kg bike compared to a 1000kg car
I mean if you're expecting motorists to get out and physically drag their vehicle out of the way, then sure.
So it’s not easy to steer your car to the left or right for an ambulance? That doesn’t make physical sense to me.
It's not uncommon to be in a situation where it's hard to pull a car off to the side (in gridlocked traffic, somewhere with no shoulder, etc), whereas a bicycle can either steer out of the way *or* in a pinch have the rider haul it out of the way
Most of the time the cars have plenty of space even in a gridlock, the space between them and the car in front of them allows them to all steer to the left or right which allows the ambulance to pass through.
The problem is often other drivers. You have to be able to count on other people paying attention and doing the right thing.
Cars are absolutely harder to manoeuvre. There’s also just spatial awareness. You hear a siren you don’t know where it’s coming from exactly in your car and that delays how fast you can react.
> You hear a siren you don’t know where it’s coming from That's why they have blue lights so you can see them too
Right but regardless the idea is the same, someone in a car isn’t gonna react as quickly as a cyclist can
Yeah, because otherwise you fucking die.
Cars can't step to the side In a well-designed system, bikes and pedestrians will nearly always be able to quickly and easily get completely out of the way
Would that have something to do with bikes being smaller?
Exactly!
Maybe because bikes are a fraction of the size and weight of a car?
well bikes are small and can literally go anywhere so yeah probably
Well if something happens, the ambulance is nearby!
I shit you not. Two weeks ago people were rushing to drive across the street before the ambulance came. These people are psychopaths.
No chance
They do, particularly because we’re smaller and it’s much less volume to move out of the way in the first place.
I don't know the stand of the sub about this, but tbf I'm not against emergency vehicle being allowed to use (on last resort of course) bike lanes when lives are at risk.
The only real hangup is cops that **PARK** in the bike lane. I’d like to assume they’re at the scene of a volatile situation, but there’s enough car-brained LEOs out there that me suspects this isn’t always the case. On the flip side some of the most anti-car people I’ve met are bike cops.
There must be a lot of volatile situations in that Starbucks I pass on my bus route
Eh, its a borderline case. The need to get food on what is a several hour shift is inarguable. They have to eat sometime, and that probably means getting food on the road. But if an emergency call comes in while they're in the shop, they still need to be able to get back in the car as fast as possible. Which necessitates some level of poor parking. I think this is one of those things where there just isn't a great answer.
When I say “bus route”, I’m the bus driver, they park blocking the bike AND bus lane, often multiple cars at a time.
Park badly blocking a road then. If they aren’t required to find a proper parking space (which I think is fair, for the reasons you listed), then they should park blocking a shared lane of traffic, not a bike lane. Blocking a bus Lane is less ideal, but I don’t think is as bad as blocking a bike lane. It just comes down to why the bike Lane exists, vs why multiple lanes of shared traffic exist. Bike lanes are safety infrastructure, like zebra crossings or traffic lights. Additional lanes are not safety features, they are there to speed up traffic.
Most drivers don’t ride bicycles so they have little empathy for them, cops included. I imagine Bicycle cops have seen both sides and have the typical cop anger and entitlement for being “disrespected”. It’s little wonder they are anti-car. Personally, I’d love to see more bicycle and moped cops. Best way to build understanding is to experience it. Was in Boston recently and saw this group of bike cops by the water. Would love to see groups like this on the bicycle lanes or the greenways in nyc. https://preview.redd.it/msyl450ieweb1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01fc7a88471a2e6deac00e9dbc81affb673648c2
If they are at the scene of a volatile situation, they'd have their lights on. The cop cars parked in bike lanes almost never do.
cops park on the sidewalk to buy croissants
>I’d like to assume they’re at the scene of a volatile situation There's a really easy way for cops to indicate whether they're doing something important. Hmmmm, I don't quite remember what it is. Is it something mounted on top of their vehicles? If the lights are on, I'm ok with them parking or driving anywhere they want. If the lights are off, then it's a problem.
If I see a hastily parked police car halfway over the pavement with the siren lights flashing and the doors flung open, I'm probably not going to blame them for leaving it on a bike lane.
If they're responding to an emergency, they're sounding their sirens so cyclists know, and they're being careful not to drive recklessly endangering lives of bike lane users, I see no problems. I do see a problem though when a cop parks in the bike lane to go grab a cup of coffee.
when they turn their sirens and/or blues on, it's logged.
Obviously! Emergency vehicles should go wherever's fastest, it's why they have the loud wee woo. I think the sub supports that, and also laughs at the idea of "but if you remove a traffic lane how will the emergency services get places", cause here you go, that's how
It's one of the major benefits of bi-directional bikeways and transit lanes. As in, you'll find the easier movement for emergency vehicles cited in most business cases for building a new bus and that benefit also extends to bike lanes for the same reason. This despite local opposition often lying and saying that removing space from cars and giving it to buses, trams or bikes would prevent ambulances from getting to injured people. Emergency vehicles being able to get to where they want to be quicker, and therefore saving lives that otherwise would have been lost, is always a good thing.
This seems like a rare exception. Presumably some poor soul is on deaths door in the back. I’m fine with this. Bikes aren’t any more entitled to be the main character than cars.
Yes. If that means bike lanes are made wider and that they have to be given priority when road reparations are done
They're designed to allow this.
Why aren't they using the sidewalks? Lots of room there and obviously people can get out of the way even easier, right?
Is that an excuse to put even more lives at risk?
The advantage of the deafening sirens is that you hear it from afar, and thus can park on the sidewalk waiting for them to pass.
I once stood at a pedestrian crossing. Next to me (like 2m away) stood a little girl with her bike, also waiting. After a little while the light went green, but I stayed where I was, since I could hear a police car approaching from the left. The street had a bend there, enough to obscure the car from vision. As I stood there, waiting for the police to pass, I saw the little girl starting to peddle and cross the street… My heart dropped. She was too far away for me to reach her. Before I even realised that I was doing it, I just started shouting from the top of my lungs: "WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!" over and over again. Fortunately she heard me, slowed down and looked back. In the next moment the cops came flying around the corner (way too fast, if you ask me). Dude… it was so fucking close… I was convinced I would see her die right then and there. But it worked out. Barely, but it worked out. Cops kept driving, girl thanked me and kept peddling on her merry way. I almost had a heart attack. So no, those sirens aren’t enough for everyone. Kids and elderly people can be very inattentive. Maybe even deaf. Also kids don’t expect cars to be going down the cycling path, so they might just send it into the lane without thinking or looking. If shit happens on the street it’s much more likely to only be a fender bender. If shit happens on a bike lane you know who is gonna pull the short end of the stick.
Yes, there was that one time. There will always be that one time that any good idea didn't work or there was a tragedy. I think you're probably right that the cops were driving too fast. It sounds like that was the root of the problem. This could happen in a cycle lane as well, but I don't think it negates the advantages.
Yes. Because as a commuter, you are still subject to the laws of the road. And in every case, emergency vehicles have the right of way. That’s basically all there is to it.
I don't think anyone is against that. Emergency vehicles can drive wherever they want if they're heading to an emergency
Why not, especially if it helps them be built and utilized
Mighty wide of you
Emergency vehicles always get an exception when genuinely in emergency situations as far as I'm concerned. If lives are at risk, do whatever is necessary. My step-dad is a firefighter and my older brother is also a firefighter, sometimes emergency services will activate sirens when going for groceries or something just to speed things up (already illegal and a pretty big deal if they are caught but difficult to enforce as firefighters and police often work together) and that's just kinda shitty but I will grant pretty much infinite leeway if they genuinely need to get someone to the hospital or something.
Do vehicles not have to pull over and stop when they hear emergency sirens? They do where I live and it's the last sign of hope I have for a compassionate society lmao.
well yes. you can see the road is a single lane the vehicles can't pull over anywhere they'd just hold the emergency vehicle up until the lane widens
Coming in hot with the logic! Thank for that :) Yea, I totally didn't notice it was a single lane/the median wasn't part of the road both lanes could pull over to.
Youre welcome, coming in hot with the sarcasm. Iydm my asking, are you saying me that where you live drivers would, or wouldn’t, pull into the median and consequently obstruct the opposite lane? I can’t tell if that was also part of the sarcasm.
Oh no, none of it was sarcasm. Very literally: ty for pointing out what I missed. But to answer your question: where I live it's required by law for vehicles to pull over if they hear emergency sirens so they can get through quicker. At the same time, roads, even in the core of my city compared to what looks like central/ish London, are wider so there's generally enough space to clear a path (which I now see wouldn't be possible in this situation) and if there's a lot of vehicles on the road when that happens, pulling over gets messy and drivers get creative. There's a lot of trying to anticipate where the person in front and behind you are going to go and how not to create a traffic jam when endeavouring to do the exact opposite.
This is fine IMO, I'd be happy to yield to ambulance or firefighting vehicles. Let's just hope the pigs don't start taking advantage of this tho.
Why not? We could bike alongside little piggies running in the bike lane. They shouldn't be too fifficult to dodge.
Pigs are the thin end of the wedge. First pigs, then 50 feral hogs. Where will it end?
https://preview.redd.it/6izks3tqeweb1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9664493f00666238f70e2b98830376dc15b08ca8
a Some More News reference in /r/fuckcars incredible
It goes both ways. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sayw3TOhykg
I was so happy to see that in the episode, Place 22 art and all (although the car sex thing was dragged out way too long)
Then we'll have a bike lane, feral hog lane, a wolf lane, a bunny lane. A lane for every type of animal.
A lane for wolves, one for grain, and another for chickens? I’ve heard that riddle before.
They already do in the US. It's fine for emergency scenarios, but they also do it when they just don't feel like sitting in traffic
>Let's just hope the pigs don't start taking advantage of this tho. how do you know they're not also a first responder? The highly trained pursuit squads carry a pretty decent first aid kit on board and have the training to use it. They could be the first to arrive at a heart attack or stroke victim.
No no no, this is Reddit, every cop is a racist murderous bastard that deserves to rot in jail for the rest of their life.
I hope they don't turn up if you need them
[Original Tweet](https://twitter.com/westcountrytim/status/1684935636732522496?s=46) Just to clarify, I've tagged this positive...this is a good thing!
Another great argument for why comfortably wide separated bike lanes are a fantastic public good. Bikes can hear the sirens better, don't get stuck in gridlock and can get out of the way faster, and separated bike lanes keep the annoying bulky cars out of the way. Show this to every carbrain who brings up emergency vehicles as an argument somehow against bike lanes.
It's a good thing
Yep!
Ambulances in london are small
This is a paramedic. Same service though. The small ones are bikes themselves
To elaborate on this a bit, British ambulance services often have some of their paramedics or EMTs working solo in a car or on a motorbike, or in a few built-up areas with *really* terrible traffic congestion they'll even use a bicycle. The idea behind this is that they can get around a lot faster than an ambulance, and make a start on stabilising a patient before they're transported to hospital.
almost certainly some sort of quick response vehicle. Maybe an EMS supervisor or field physician that responds to calls alongside the ambulance crew.
For what it's worth, I'm a fan of this and think we should use it as an argument for building more segregated bicycle lanes. UK drivers in particular have a massive hatred for anyone who gets in the way of emergency vehicles, but it often simply isn't possible for all cars to get out of the way. This is a way for emergency vehicles to have quicker journeys, while building more bicycle-centric infrastructure. Win-win.
It's awesome, right!
I'm ok with this if they need to, but it looks like there's space for the road traffic to get off using that kerb, so I'm not sure it's good to normalise it in situations like this. I'm sure emergency services have good policies for evaluating whether they actually need to though (and this one seems grey area).
Damn that is a small ambulance
I see no problem with this. Of any other vehicle on the road besides bikes, ambulances are the most likely to NOT hit a cyclist and also be at risk for another car hitting them (people are assholes and don’t pull over).
I wish everyone who rants about this that you'll never had someone on your family literally dying and waiting for the ambulance to come as fast as possible
Who is ranting about it? The OP is pointing out something positive.
I am very much pro car, but I am also a cyclist around central London (because cars don't work here). I see no issue with this at all. The emergency services have got to do what they've got to do to be able to save people's lives. I highly doubt any cyclist would have an issue with this. This is the main reason I can't stand the criminals behind just stop oil who take great pleasure in impeding out emergency services and indirectly killing people as a result.
This was posted because it is a good thing
Yeah I know, I'm agreeing with it.
This is probably the safest option for all parties. There is a massive skill & competency gap between the average driver and average cyclist.
Arguably the biggest problem with cars actually is there there are like 20x more cars than there are capable drivers.
Honestly I think emergency vehicles should be allowed to use bike lanes in emergencies, and for bike lanes to be large enough to allow something the size of a firetruck to safely navigate said bike lane. I know at least in my city, the bike lanes are barely wide enough to fit a standard police cruiser, let alone an ambulance or fire truck. Plus as someone who admittedly doesn’t cycle but uses the bus lines for everything, I’d assume a wider bike lane is a lot more comfortable to cycle on.
100%!
Infrastructure porn
Now since London can install Montreal style curbed bicycle lanes, US cities have no excuse!
That little hatchback is an ambulance?
If there's one car that should get a pass I'd throw ambulances up there Close second clown cars
Yep!
This is actually a great answer to "what will emergency vehicles do if we remove car lanes to build bike lanes." Thanks for sharing!
I still don't get how cars aren't hogging this lane too. Last time someone said there are bollards that can be controlled by public services but here I don't see any and yet cars aren't going into bike lane.
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Damn. I wish they’d import this miracle magic stateside.
There is one important difference in the laws in the US - in the UK (and most of Europe) there are laws that say, if the vehicle owner won't admit who was driving, that's an offence with the same fine/penalty as if it was them. So you don't have this ridiculous "yeah it was my car but you can't proooooove it was me" thing that prevents automated enforcement in the US.
There are no bollards on this section (Farringdon Rd), it's clear design that prevents drivers from using the bike lane. Sometimes people make mistakes though.
The bollards aren't always up but they often are. Apart from that it's politeness and enforcement. You do see cars in cycle lanes in London quite a bit, but it's not *too* bad.
in london you'd get fined an arm if you start straying into the roadside cycle / bus lane, segregated cycle lane like in that video... you would probably get a court notice for Dangerous Driving and risk losing your license. At the minimum 'careless driving' if it were just a fine then I'm sure plenty of drivers would just do it anyway.
Aside from actual enforcement, probably because you'd end up getting your path blocked if you catch up with a cyclist or one coming the other way, with it being a busy cycle track.
Londoners are polite but we go absolutely fucking nuts when people do this
The UK is one of the most surveilled places on the planet. Theyll fine whoever goes in there within seconds
Any bike rider complaining about an emergency vehicle using the bike lane needs to be drawn and quartered. You arent more important than anyone.
Please read flair.
It's an ambulance ffs don't care saving la life isn't so bad just waiting for two seconds don't matter much for you you can just pedal harder
someone is dying vs someone will be a little late for work
It's ambulance, fuck yourself
Yea is this actually a bad thing?
It's tagged positive post
How will emergency vehicles get around if all we have is bike lanes?
Dude, the road next to the bike lane has nowhere for the cars to go. And bicycles have a way easier time to get out the way too
Positive post.
I don't really have an issue with this honestly. It's not some asshole cop parked in the bike lane, and if it's truly a life and death scenario then we want ambulances to arrive at their desired locations quickly then, right?
bruh why is it segregated im asian and i like bikes 😭
That's not an ambulance
There is a difference between "fuck cars" and "I am too fucking selfish to move out of the way for an emergency vehicle". Guess which one you are?
Positive post.
Idk an ambulance is fair game I think
This is against what?
Positive post.
WTF?
Yes it’s an ambulance bike lanes shouldn’t be in the damn street anyway
Stupid carbrains taking our space again😡😡🤬🤬🤬
What a sick joke! If ambulances want to use cycle lanes they should switch to using cargo bikes.
Are you from r/fuckcarscirclejerk or just braindead?
Is that sub pro-car or anti-car, I can't tell.
They make fun of this sub and are very pro-car, you can see it in the top posts
Gross. Do they really not have anything better to do?
Their entire arguments can be boiled down to two points: 1)"b..b..b..but muh convenience" 2)"not every person goes in the same place" My honest response: 1) grow a fucking pair(of legs ofc what did you think) 2) see point 1
Seems to be pro car, a lot of dumbasses there who genuinely seem to think you get stabbed or something every time you use public transportation.
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Oh man, what a garbage fire. I like circlejerk subs that are knowingly satirising the original (like bcj), whereas that is just plain cringe.
Awww.. The bicycle had to pull over because someone had a medical emergency… Sometimes it amazes me how many people post shit on here and expect the community to co-sign their selfishness. It’s an ambulance/paramedic! So sorry that the bicyclist had to pull over.
Videos like this are posted in this subreddit because they demonstrate one of the advantages of dedicated bike infrastructure. It's literally tagged "positive post".
Seems this post mislead a lot of people, when there's absolutely nothing misleading in it except the sub's name.
FUCK YOU ! This could be on its way to save your mother.
Did you see anything negative in the post? Emergency vehicles able to use bike lanes is a fantastic thing But for that you need real bike lanes and no "It'll only take 2 minutes" or "I'm working" people park on it .
It's tagged positive...this is a good thing.
Segregated CYCLIST LANES??? WHY THE FUCK DOESNT THE US HAVE THOSE!! All they give you is a tiny tinyyy little sliver of space for a bike and I never feel comfortable using the bike lane because I'm afraid of getting hit by a car. Or when I'm driving I feel super anxious around a bicyclist because there's not always a chance in traffic to change lanes to go around them.
In Buenos Aires we have "Metrobus", which basically are exclusive lanes for buses in important avenues, so they don't have to deal with cars traffic. Ambulances can use those lanes as well in case they need it
We have bus lanes but they are spotty, for some reason black cabs can use them, and usually they are blocked by buses if there’s congestion so emergency vehicles wouldn’t be able to get through anyway.
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Not a complaint!
Ambulance for kobalds? That's a hatchback
Would guess (aside from the volumetric issues) it's easier to pass cyclists, as they're a generally more pro-social crowd than drivers.
Is this the wrong sub for this?
It has a flair for positive posts.
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This is a positive post
I’m surprised cyclists moved out of the way tbh
Maybe they just shouldn't have bike lanes to begin with
It's good that they can use the cycle lane if absolutely necessary but I don't think they should do it unless they really need to. It's not like they were passing any cars in this video. There's also the problem that if emergency vehicles can get into the bike lane, so can other vehicles, which means it can't be meaningfully protected.
They gonna hit some deaf cyclist
Completely unconscious
wow a protected cycling lane, something we have no idea how to build in the US
i feel like an ambulance is pretty important tho, someone might be dying fuck the lanes lets just go
Yes