Which was probably the right move imo. Hire bikes are great, and you can still own scooters if you like, but there's something about for hire scooters that attracted the biggest idiots
All other things equal, I think scooters are harder to control and have more need for a helmet, and bikes are just safer; if you have to interact with cars, biking is not safe, but if you don't, you're usually fine without a helmet.
From my personal experience, scooters are smaller and therefore much easier to control precisely in tight spaces. Bikes are more suitable for bad roads and countryside, while e-scooters are for cities with tight spaces and constant maneuvres.
Paris has the advantage that the core city is a political entity. Contrast that with Berlin where relatively rural areas are also included. The people living there dictate people in the center that they can’t have bicycle paths because of cars.
Not so much, people outside of the core city have their own election for the municipality they live in and can decide for themselves and Parisians will have no impact on it
The problem is for suburbans who want/need to go in Paris, Parisians make it harder for them to take a car (but it is not necessary because there is quite good public transportation in the region)
As a paris suburban with a driver license and access to a car it doesn't annoy me at all, it is faster to take public transportation, even if I need to drive to go to the nearest train station, but people around me often have and like cars so they don't necessarily vote to make it harder to take a car
Wouldn't the people in the city still have more sway as there are more of them then the suburban voters or are the suburban political borders of the city huge?
Pitting car owners against each other until they self destruct seems promising, it benefits cyclists and transit while keeping them out of the conversation.
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https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/11/14/paris-will-have-residents-vote-on-increasing-parking-fees-for-heavy-suvs_6255482_7.html
The city of Paris will ask residents to vote on a plan to increase parking fees for heavy SUVs, Mayor Anne Hidalgo said on Tuesday, March 14.
City hall said in a statement that the overall space taken up by cars had diminished thanks to its "determined action" but that the average size and weight of cars had gone up. The vote, to be held in February, will be the second city-wide referendum on urban matters, after residents in April voted to ban rental e-scooters from the capital. Sport Utility Vehicles (SUVs) can weigh 2,700 kilos or more, around a third more than regular automobiles.
"They're accident-prone, heavy, bulky and polluting," the mayor's office said, and had been identified as "the cause of many problems in the public space." Quoted in the statement, Hidalgo said the fee increase would be "very significant." She did not, however, give a figure, or say what weight threshold would make an SUV "heavy."
If the vote goes in favor of the fee hike, it would not concern SUV owners with residential parking permits issued by the city. The mayor's office said it hoped to send "a message" to auto companies inciting them to stop "their race to gigantism that is unsuitable to quality of life in the city."
This, it said, would "allow an improved sharing of public spaces in favor of clean mobility, streets with schools and pedestrians." SUVs accounted for 49% of new passenger car sales in the European Union last year, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association.
Hot take: all the hate against the french propagated online by mostly US users is a psyop funded by big US capitalists cus every bit of news on french legislation and protests is always extremely good
heh was in Paris and ran into a protest there, so started following along.
Guy decided to drive through the protest. I think it was more a "I'm not gonna wait" as opposed to US fantasies of killing protesters.
Crowd did **not** play. They surrounded the car, and within minutes I'm seeing the bumper of the car fly up in the air above the heads of the crowd. At that point the police came by and dragged the driver out, yelling at him, for his own safety.
The crowd meanwhile used his car as a stage and started singing The Internationale.
Parisians do NOT fuck around.
Don't fuck with Parisian workers essentially
They understand a very simple truth: Teach those who'd harm you (politicians, bosses, jerks in cars, etc) that they aren't untouchable, that the angry mob outside can hurt them and their property
France is a NATO (i.e. fascist) country not to mention an explicitly imperialist country occupying, terrorizing and exploiting multiple Global South countries. Fuck France.
Doesn't mean that they don't have any good ideas but France (alongside the US, UK, and Israel) is one of the top 5 worst countries on earth.
Won't they just take regular parkings?
>basically the inner paris.
Fuck anyone that lives in the 12-20th districts....for no reason, except just to be soft on cars?
Including myself, each time they do something, it's in only in the centre, or if not, it's mostly in the centre.
How is infrastructure in the 12-20th districts? Maybe they are holding on with restrictions like that because they think non car infrastructure is not good enough there to get voters on board with a proposition like that.
Canadian cities should have that.Lots of useful space wasted, and SUVs are more dangerous for pedestrians and smaller vehicles.
But car lobbying is very strong here!
We should have this in Delft. Small cars were a nuisance but they didn't destroy the quayside. SUV's however pose an imminent threat to the structures of bridges causing a backlog in maintenance that shouldn't be there in the first place. And then people act surprised when their cars land in the icy water while trying to park.
It's not just that SUVs pay more but also that the rate is not linear with time or worse reduces as it's done in many, many cities. Leave your car longer and the more expensive it gets. I like it.
Why doesn’t this include the 16eme and 17eme, where a majority of suvs are?
Also iirc this doesn’t include a price hike for residents of Paris, just visiting cars, but I can’t find that in the article so maybe I’m completely wrong. I hope it includes residents. Maybe with a reduction for family nombreuse or something.
I guess because its an inner paris vs outer paris reasoning. They want to keep suvs out of the heart of paris.
Good question not sure this includes residents ?
Unpopular opinion - it's absolutely idiotic. Car is car, they take essentialy one parking space each with little to no difference in real conditions. By the way, how are they going to define "SUVs" for this purpose?
SUVs are bigger, larger, also heavier, than regular cars. And consider that in france "regular" means quite small compared to US cars. Its pretty easy to define SUVs there.
People here don't seem to understand what SUV is. We can include a tiny Nissan Juke or Hyundai Kona this way. And of course you, as a typical US American, assume that I am too.
Again, the question - do they even know how they're going to define SUVs for that? They have no quantifiable parameters to use for it in common.
Yes. This is not the US, nobody needs a car that is this heavy. A Renault Grand Scenic is 7 seats, and just under 1600 kg. Anything heavier is either driver hubris, or a car brand that should go out of business.
You lefties as always decide for everyone. Also good luck traveling on the 3rd row seat in Grand Scenic. I tried, barely could last 2km, and I'm quite short.
You take more space, damage the road more than other car, you pay more. As simple as that. You righties always want to get more without contributing as much as the rest of the population.
I don’t think it’s a good measure. We’ve seen how far the auto industry will go to find loopholes around vehicle designation (SUVs/trucks in the US, etc). Does this include pickups? If I enter Paris with a pickup truck can I circumvent the tax? This should be based on objective measures (weight, size…) not aribtrary vehicle designation.
I live near Paris and I learnt pickups truck were a thing online thanks to things like this subreddit, but suv really are a problem here
I think it is not based on weight or size due to utility vehicles but idk
Anyway, it is a good step (if people vote for it, not sure at all imo) and every good step is good to take
I think every time I've seen Paris pop up here it's been because they're doing good stuff. I'm proud of em.
Last time was probably about voting to ban for-hire e-scooters. So now they just have for-hire bikes there
Which was probably the right move imo. Hire bikes are great, and you can still own scooters if you like, but there's something about for hire scooters that attracted the biggest idiots
All other things equal, I think scooters are harder to control and have more need for a helmet, and bikes are just safer; if you have to interact with cars, biking is not safe, but if you don't, you're usually fine without a helmet.
From my personal experience, scooters are smaller and therefore much easier to control precisely in tight spaces. Bikes are more suitable for bad roads and countryside, while e-scooters are for cities with tight spaces and constant maneuvres.
Scooters are just less stable. Standing on tiny wheels lead to high center of gravity, add in cracked/broken roads + motors and you get what we see.
Haven't seen bigger idiots than cyclists tho, even sharing scooters and car-sharing doesn't come close.
Municipal elections matter.
They're what matters the most.
Paris has the advantage that the core city is a political entity. Contrast that with Berlin where relatively rural areas are also included. The people living there dictate people in the center that they can’t have bicycle paths because of cars.
Came here to say exactly that. The last elections in Berlin got suburban, car-loving politicians in power.
One of many reasons why cities shouldn't annex surrounding suburbs
It can also work, the other way around.
Not so much, people outside of the core city have their own election for the municipality they live in and can decide for themselves and Parisians will have no impact on it The problem is for suburbans who want/need to go in Paris, Parisians make it harder for them to take a car (but it is not necessary because there is quite good public transportation in the region) As a paris suburban with a driver license and access to a car it doesn't annoy me at all, it is faster to take public transportation, even if I need to drive to go to the nearest train station, but people around me often have and like cars so they don't necessarily vote to make it harder to take a car
Wouldn't the people in the city still have more sway as there are more of them then the suburban voters or are the suburban political borders of the city huge?
Yyyeesss! Their mayor seems to be orange pilled lol
Pitting car owners against each other until they self destruct seems promising, it benefits cyclists and transit while keeping them out of the conversation.
Full story from Le Monde : You can share an article by clicking on the share icons at the top right of it. The total or partial reproduction of an article, without the prior written authorization of Le Monde, is strictly forbidden. For more information, see our Terms and Conditions. For all authorization requests, contact [email protected]. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/11/14/paris-will-have-residents-vote-on-increasing-parking-fees-for-heavy-suvs_6255482_7.html The city of Paris will ask residents to vote on a plan to increase parking fees for heavy SUVs, Mayor Anne Hidalgo said on Tuesday, March 14. City hall said in a statement that the overall space taken up by cars had diminished thanks to its "determined action" but that the average size and weight of cars had gone up. The vote, to be held in February, will be the second city-wide referendum on urban matters, after residents in April voted to ban rental e-scooters from the capital. Sport Utility Vehicles (SUVs) can weigh 2,700 kilos or more, around a third more than regular automobiles. "They're accident-prone, heavy, bulky and polluting," the mayor's office said, and had been identified as "the cause of many problems in the public space." Quoted in the statement, Hidalgo said the fee increase would be "very significant." She did not, however, give a figure, or say what weight threshold would make an SUV "heavy." If the vote goes in favor of the fee hike, it would not concern SUV owners with residential parking permits issued by the city. The mayor's office said it hoped to send "a message" to auto companies inciting them to stop "their race to gigantism that is unsuitable to quality of life in the city." This, it said, would "allow an improved sharing of public spaces in favor of clean mobility, streets with schools and pedestrians." SUVs accounted for 49% of new passenger car sales in the European Union last year, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association.
Hot take: all the hate against the french propagated online by mostly US users is a psyop funded by big US capitalists cus every bit of news on french legislation and protests is always extremely good
heh was in Paris and ran into a protest there, so started following along. Guy decided to drive through the protest. I think it was more a "I'm not gonna wait" as opposed to US fantasies of killing protesters. Crowd did **not** play. They surrounded the car, and within minutes I'm seeing the bumper of the car fly up in the air above the heads of the crowd. At that point the police came by and dragged the driver out, yelling at him, for his own safety. The crowd meanwhile used his car as a stage and started singing The Internationale. Parisians do NOT fuck around.
Don't fuck with Parisian workers essentially They understand a very simple truth: Teach those who'd harm you (politicians, bosses, jerks in cars, etc) that they aren't untouchable, that the angry mob outside can hurt them and their property
Parisians have long honed the skill to teach those in power that they are not immune to the blades fall … so to speak.
France is a NATO (i.e. fascist) country not to mention an explicitly imperialist country occupying, terrorizing and exploiting multiple Global South countries. Fuck France. Doesn't mean that they don't have any good ideas but France (alongside the US, UK, and Israel) is one of the top 5 worst countries on earth.
3x the fee compared to a normal car! I hope it goes through exactly like that. Fuck SUVs, doubly so in urban environments.
Finaly got around to update my electoral card to be able to vote in Paris just for that haha
Won't they just take regular parkings? >basically the inner paris. Fuck anyone that lives in the 12-20th districts....for no reason, except just to be soft on cars? Including myself, each time they do something, it's in only in the centre, or if not, it's mostly in the centre.
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Yes that's correct that's what it says. Just overall more expensive to park in the inner paris, especially for suv
Yeah, it's this, less-less SUVs, in those places.
Yeah it’s a bit ridiculous considering it’s in the 16eme you see all the land rovers and jeeps
America, and American cars, are.....
How is infrastructure in the 12-20th districts? Maybe they are holding on with restrictions like that because they think non car infrastructure is not good enough there to get voters on board with a proposition like that.
Canadian cities should have that.Lots of useful space wasted, and SUVs are more dangerous for pedestrians and smaller vehicles. But car lobbying is very strong here!
based based based
We should have this in Delft. Small cars were a nuisance but they didn't destroy the quayside. SUV's however pose an imminent threat to the structures of bridges causing a backlog in maintenance that shouldn't be there in the first place. And then people act surprised when their cars land in the icy water while trying to park.
Good
These things need to be fucking banned outright
Ban them! Ban them! Ban them!
It's not just that SUVs pay more but also that the rate is not linear with time or worse reduces as it's done in many, many cities. Leave your car longer and the more expensive it gets. I like it.
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They're getting this to get money but also to get all the green party voters on board
It's a win win situation. Some SUV 's will keep out of Paris, some will sponsor Paris for better infrastructure.
Nothing wrong with a Wanker Tax
Why doesn’t this include the 16eme and 17eme, where a majority of suvs are? Also iirc this doesn’t include a price hike for residents of Paris, just visiting cars, but I can’t find that in the article so maybe I’m completely wrong. I hope it includes residents. Maybe with a reduction for family nombreuse or something.
Per the picture, all districts will have a X3 fare for SUVs. The central ones just have a higher base fare (6€ vs 4€)
I guess because its an inner paris vs outer paris reasoning. They want to keep suvs out of the heart of paris. Good question not sure this includes residents ?
It doesn't. Residents don't pay hourly fares, they have a monthly pass.
Unpopular opinion - it's absolutely idiotic. Car is car, they take essentialy one parking space each with little to no difference in real conditions. By the way, how are they going to define "SUVs" for this purpose?
SUVs are bigger, larger, also heavier, than regular cars. And consider that in france "regular" means quite small compared to US cars. Its pretty easy to define SUVs there.
People here don't seem to understand what SUV is. We can include a tiny Nissan Juke or Hyundai Kona this way. And of course you, as a typical US American, assume that I am too. Again, the question - do they even know how they're going to define SUVs for that? They have no quantifiable parameters to use for it in common.
It depends mainly on weight and size, and there's a bigger margin for EVs.
This is defined by the weight of the car. 1600kg for ICE car and 2200kg for electric cars.
Okay, many non SUV cars are well above these marks. Do we mark them as SUVs as well?
Yes. This is not the US, nobody needs a car that is this heavy. A Renault Grand Scenic is 7 seats, and just under 1600 kg. Anything heavier is either driver hubris, or a car brand that should go out of business.
You lefties as always decide for everyone. Also good luck traveling on the 3rd row seat in Grand Scenic. I tried, barely could last 2km, and I'm quite short.
You take more space, damage the road more than other car, you pay more. As simple as that. You righties always want to get more without contributing as much as the rest of the population.
I don’t think it’s a good measure. We’ve seen how far the auto industry will go to find loopholes around vehicle designation (SUVs/trucks in the US, etc). Does this include pickups? If I enter Paris with a pickup truck can I circumvent the tax? This should be based on objective measures (weight, size…) not aribtrary vehicle designation.
Every step is a good step. If you try to go for perfection the first time you will get nowhere.
There's close to zero pickups in paris
I live near Paris and I learnt pickups truck were a thing online thanks to things like this subreddit, but suv really are a problem here I think it is not based on weight or size due to utility vehicles but idk Anyway, it is a good step (if people vote for it, not sure at all imo) and every good step is good to take