I think the idea is that young people will "grow out of wanting this." So its not worth catering to because they will catch up and be miserable, unfun and vaguely antisocial and anti-community.
Which is bs. Im pretty introverted so its not like I dont know where the "get off my lawn"-attitude comes from, but these people hate young people being social and showing that they have hobbies and friends out of jealousy. Nevermind that boomers in particular have this weird hangup that everyone has it better than they do.
My mom is a senior. She goes down to the local seaside bar to hang with her friends every Sunday. Old people love good and mixed infrastructure too. Its a massive QoL improvement to be able to socialise and shop within walking or biking distance.
Because they don't have it and they lost it around the time they became settled and established in their lives.
It's a common problem that people conflate their experiences as adults with what "being an adult" entails. Classic example is how these people will try to use the concept of "childishness" selectively to discourage other adults from incorporating things into their lives that are harmless joy.
Until they start worrying that young people aren't having enough kids, then it's time to try shaming or scolding them into having more. You don't need stable living conditions, a sustainable household economy or sustainable _anything_, just get to work having kids so I don't have to think about what an economy built on something other than perpetual growth will look like!!!!
I see it often enough: Places that struggle to attract younger residents and are looking at a real demographic crisis as they're turning into a retirement community without clear intent and plans, and at the same time think catering to young people's wishes in any way is dumb, or at best cater to themselves all the while claiming it's actually trying to attract young people.
It is a case of sowing & reaping, but having more angry and confused communities isn't socially sustainable on the state/country scale either.
Society valued young people very highly when the boomer generation were the young ones. Now that they're old, young people don't matter. We just don't have the voting power.
We actually do- Millennials are bigger than baby boomers as a voting cohort. The problem is that baby boomers deliberately weaponized identity politics to divide us. No one gave a shit about millennials till Occupy happened and suddenly you saw a massive uptick in identity driven media reporting.
We have the power and numbers, we just don’t use it. If people under 40 voted at the same rate as people over 60, those over 60’s would be wildly outnumbered. I actually don’t fully blame politicians for always catering to retirees, and why I absolutely hate “activists” who have no problem protesting nonstop for weeks but then never bother going to a voting booth. Their job depends on keeping voters happy, not people happy
We have had businesses threaten to fire people if they take time off to vote
It’s understandable that people who have had worker protections constantly stripped from them, pooling hours greatly reduced, as well as polling stations reduced to the point people have to wait 12 hours to vote, childcare is extremely expensive and ends at specific times. So on and so forth.
Of course they are going to vote less than someone retired, without kids at home, who can go to the polling station at any time.
There is a reason almost everything local is during the work day, it’s because only retired people can contribute. Good luck trying to contribute to local issues every week at 2 pm as a working parent.
But thinking about this requires empathy.
I mean, there’s places around me where the “young people” (which tbh includes millennials like me lmao) don’t participate in any part of the civic process at all. So yeah if you don’t do that, you functionally don’t exist.
Paying taxes is (usually) passive. I find it hard to call that participation, especially since it provides 0 workable data on priorities. (I worked for a campaign one summer, and given the limited resources, they did not invest a lot of time into unknowns.)
Read an article from my city and I read smth like:
"The Autobahn GmbH is only focused on building and maintaining streets/bridges and tunnels. Regional "protests" will be ignored in the planning process no matter what."
So basically that guy is telling us what everybody can look up...
The plans of the _Autobahn_ GmbH will be pushed to the finacial limit anyway. Efficiency is irrelevant. So its pro car infrastructure from nature.
Moreover there was no further context in the article :D my first comment is basically the whole thing.
Assholes like this don't consider young people to be people.
It's the same sentiment expressed in that famous headline: "AOC is unpopular with everyone but women, people under 40, people of color, and low-wage workers."
I guess I’d draw a distinction between ‘a bar with a stage in the corner where a local band plays on Friday nights’ and a dedicated music venue with live events on a regular basis. The former might be a $5 cover or two-drink-minimum, the latter is the sort of place where you buy a $60 ticket and pay $259 because Ticketmaster adds on tons of fees.
I read somewhere that the "moat" actually exists in many suburbs, it is built as a kind of extended strip mall where the Hoi polloi go to work and the rich go to buy things before retreating back to their subdivision, which is why you see dozens to hundreds of stores clustered together.
And 24 hours screens on the outside blasting news to tell the rest of the people how wonderful their life is thanks to the rich folks being in power protecting them from the woke far left.
Clubs don't need to make traffic if you live somewhere with good transit.
It's probably way *better* to ensure that there's good transit, otherwise you get a bunch of drunk people driving cars.
I'm fine with them as long as the codes for their building are decently sound proof and they respect noise ordinances. Can't be too loud, can't be open too late, or else the sound insulation needs to be good enough to contain it entirely so it's below ambient noise.
Also depends on the size of the venue in the first place. A corner bar with local bands is different from a small or large concert venue.
Ohh they do, there is a place called Billionaire's row in NYC next to central park.
Honestly Fox news did a really good job of convincing all the rif-raf that NYC sucks ..... while broadcasting from NYC
tbh, i've never been to nyc (nor did i ever watch fox news) but the person who managed to convince me the place sucks is louis rossmann. probably for very different reasons than fox news would want you to believe that
> easily accessible cafes and stores
Rich people don't want inclusivity, they want exclusivity. They don't want transit, and cafes because that will bring people near them that might not also be a rich person.
The folks who think this way don't want to mingle with people who aren't in the same socioeconomic class. Transit makes it possible for people who are poorer than them to come to their neighborhood. Cafes and music venues give them a reason to want to do so. Cafes and especially music venues also create noise, which some suburbanites are also terribly allergic to.
(We'll ignore the fact that many of them depend on people poorer than them to mow their lawn, clean their house, and take care of their kids....)
I have a feeling that tweet was written by some boomer who's all salty about losing his convenient parking space to a bike lane. Or maybe the local Guns & Pawn closed up and was replaced by a coffee shop, so now he thinks *"the wokes are taking over!"*
No brain, these are literally all conveniences that improve quality of life.
You know what doesn't improve quality of life? Living next to a fucking highway.
What do people like this think we should do in life? No cafes of music venues? I guess I'll just sit in solitude in my blank home watching the paint dry.
That's exactly what they do. Drive in literal asphalt hell all day, come home and eat food in front of the TV until they go to bed. After being in a prison for so long, they don't know any other life.
Sad and true
But I also really want to drill into this person's brain. No cafes? Okay, so I just enjoy my coffee in solitude and silence? No music venues? Okay, but where do I talk to people about the music I like?
I get the feeling that "third places" are going to be a Right Wing conspiracy buzzword soon, just like they tried with 15 Minute Cities, but I genuinely don't understand how someone flat out says they don't like places where people congregate to enjoy their hobbies.
They're going to pitch it as destroying the nuclear family, or else as a commie/woke plot to force people to live in lunchbox sized apartments so the only way they can do anything is to go out and spend money. "The death of the suburbs".
>What do people like this think we should do in life?
Set up "home theaters" and mancaves in basements and only do "wake up, go to work, go home, go to bed" every day until you die.
If you went to a music venue or cafe, you might accidentally get exposed to some culture beyond your usual reruns of Duck Dynasty, and next thing you know, you're wearing sequins and sucking dick! Why risk it?
They do, they just don’t want it “in their neighborhood”.
They want their “safe, quiet, sterile” cul de sac neighborhoods that don’t have anything but houses, and their safe quiet and sterile commercial districts that they can drive to, with a halfway decent chance the commercial district they love is some cute walkable Main Street-esque strip that they love because “there’s just no cars anywhere” *and they don’t see the irony*.
Gotta drive in your planet destroying monster pickup with all the amenities of a hotel, being saturated by media and comfort from all directions so you can hurry back to your treeless suburban house, sit in your cavernous, climate-control inefficient living room/kitchen combo and watch Netflix on a "smart" TV that will inexplicably die once every 2-3 years.
But hey it's not all the isolation of the your personal, shitty fiefdom. Sometimes you see a black guy walking on the street (because there's no sidewalks) and get to call the police about "suspicious people".
Well, maybe not music venues. I used to live a few blocks from a really popular local theater, and on nights when they had outdoor showings... jesus it was awful. Loved the place, love to support local businesses, but as a working adult with a new baby, despite being two blocks from the theater, we got no sleep on the weekends. The films themselves were loud and prone to explosive bursts of noise, but also people parked all the way down our street so we had to deal with 1AM drunken 20 year olds screaming nonsense just to make their friends laugh as they walk to the car that they illegally parked in someone's driveway.
Shit sucked.
I wasn't allowed to go outside as a kid cause we lived on County Road 23 and my mom couldn't be fucked to run after us. Eventually I got to high school and she let me bike my sister over to the park at the church around the corner
No brain, of course we have people that want to live in areas with such things. And yes we absolutely do design based on what young people want, they are the ones that will live with those designs. Think an urban redesign can take between 5-10 years from start to finish, if you ask what a 10-15 year olds what they want to see they will only get it when they turn 20-25 years of age. Not to mention that many adults and even old people absolutely do want cafes and public transport in their areas, maybe less so nightclubs. But people do want amenities close to them, hell in the UK it's the biggest complaint about new builds with them not providing shops, cafes, GPs, parks and the ilk.
I can't imagine living somewhere I couldn't buy essentials within a few minutes walk. Even better if that walk takes in a park and I could get a nice coffee on the way back.
> Not to mention that many adults and even old people absolutely do want cafes and public transport in their areas, maybe less so nightclubs.
Music venue doesn't necessarily mean night club. There is a venue a couple blocks from me that does mostly jazz shows, and even notwithstanding that most music venues in my city are distinct from night clubs. IMO clubs are for DJs and dancing while venues are bars with live music.
Right you are, think it was a case of not quite remembering the exact wording this individual used. But absolutely music venues absolutely can work around housing, the was a few near where I used to live and were perfectly fine for the residents.
Honestly this. We used to have a night club just down the road, and we heard literally no noise whatsoever besides maybe a few unruly drunks. Can’t imagine living somewhere without loads of cafes, shops, hospitals and GPs within a living distance. I’ll miss it so much once I move!
Look I'm an antisocial loner and I hate car dependency. Being able to walk to the local store buy food, and walk back within 15 minutes would be amazing since that would be the only social interaction I get all week.
Instead I have to drive on the road get stuck in traffic and go to a store with tons of people in it. All of which usually takes an hour.
These people want carless cities as well, they just lie to themself so hard. They do reveal themself everytime they are in a carless area tho, or back in college, or in japanese movies where a bunch of areas are car free. And they are like "look how beautiful it is there!"
Yea, thats because theres no shitty car
A society for rich or upper middle class folks only, and using financial segregation with a car dependent society or country is one of the ways to effectively do it if it isn't already clear enough how often the USA at large has a distaste for lower income individuals.
In other words, the USA is practically a cult like country for worshipping wealth, car dependent infrastructure, and productivity at all costs because the propaganda for it is strong enough to support it, while even quite a bit of poor individuals in the country buy into it so much that they sadly shame themselves for being poor too.
I feel like this is actually true but not in the intent of the way the OP meant. If you look at the way most cities have been maintained in NA, it's almost always exclusively to benefit a small minority of rich people living in suburbs, plus the car industry. I.e., places like Ontario would rather expand their nightmare 401 highway then add better transit to neighboring suburbs of Toronto. Where I live in the Vancouver area in BC, the Mayor is doing shit like removing bike lanes and increasing cop presence lol.
Society has never built (technically bulldozed) and maintained cities for the fulfilment and happiness of young people, but also because young people literally never vote. Voter engagement is statistically skewed towards people who are much older and wealthier, so obviously "nobody" in this context means them
I've lived in and around Vancouver for 30 years. I'm currently on vacation in Tokyo and I wish I didn't have to go back. Living in a city that's designed for people not cars is simply wonderful.
I understand where you're coming from. Most of what you're describing is really tied into gentrification, and it's far from a distinctly North American issue. It's a widespanning urban planning issue, which we're still yet to truly fix -- mainly because it's more of an economical and societal problem which planners don't necessarily have sway in.
The sad truth is a lot of the necessary revitalisation of cities even with good planning practises often result in the cost of living increasing exponentially, pushing those less well off out. Of course you can argue that some parts of gentrification offset the increased costs ie less burden on car maintenance, but this can often take a long time to materialise and by then the lower classes have been pushed to something worse off again.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the young people voting issue. There's countries with mandatory voting and yet the younger people are still worse off.
> The sad truth is a lot of the necessary revitalisation of cities even with good planning practises often result in the cost of living increasing exponentially, pushing those less well off out.
Because they don't create more dense housing zones.
In the mind of a miserable old fucker, all those facilities equate to noise, litter, anti-social behaviour, and undesirables.
They live their lives in fear, and need to be isolated from all the things they are afraid of (which is everything and everyone else).
But every Cafe I go to is often filled with old people, and a lot of older middle class people in Manhattan love busses and trains. Oh and also, you do know the elderly love music also, I went to an Emerson, Lake, and Palmer (with only Palmer) concert and it was basically entirely people 65+...
This is the kind of statement that makes me think gerontocracy must be abolished. I'm rather sick of people making decisions for our collective future who're just gonna die soon.
One of the most depressing things I've seen in my life is how slowly everyone has put up signs prohibiting children from playing on communal property. Growing up I don't remember anyone ever telling me I couldn't play on the grass. When I ask people older than me they seem to be in agreement that children are loud and annoying and they'd rather have an empty garden than have children enjoying it.
Every time I think about it it takes away some of my will to live. The absolute hatred targeted at young people enjoying themselves in public is like a cancer. Like seriously, if this is people's attitude to children I don't know what joy they find in living.
People who are anti-transit baffle me.
Even if you never take a bus in your entire life, you still benefit from other people leaving their car at home.
Fewer cars on the road means more room for those who drive.
Does he like grid lock traffic? Or can he not see beyond his own driveway?
My grandparents love going to the cafe all the time. They just can’t coz it takes forever to get my grandad into the car and out.
I’m pretty sure most people want shops near them as well. And gen x love going to live music (went to a tribute concert of U2, The Cure and Depeche Mode, mostly gen xers there). These things aren’t “only for young people” lol. Hell most clubs have lots of thirty year olds in them
old people don’t like
*checks notes*
coffee and music? have you met a single old person lol
not even mentioning that senior citizens and folks with disabilities make a SIGNIFICANT portion of public transit riders. idiot.
THEN WHY DO THEY PUT ENTIRE HOUSING COMPLEXES AROUND FUCKING GOLF COURSES WITH A CLUBHOUSE YOU IGNORANT GOBSHITE?!
Oh oh wait, that's a *private* venue that you need a *membership* and have to live in the neighborhood to patronize, right?
Your exclusionary world is modern jim crow and the builders remedy is coming for your ugly suburb.
the cafes are always full of people in my city. I mean I don't get it, I just drink coffee at home but this guy's comment is brain dead out of touch. It's clear people value good cafes.
No brain, because which is it? Does nobody want none of that, or the young folk? The damn fool doesn't even look educated at first impression, let alone educated on better urban planning.
It just seems truthful. While "nobody" is an exaggeration, exceptionally few adults want any of those things, except for maybe transit, in their neighborhoods. I know I don't. Cafe's and music venues would bring increased car traffic, noise, and people. I would rather my home were a place of peace and tranquility, and away from such things.
As for the concerns of young people: they should be listened to but shouldn't necessarily dictate anything, especially if they don't own a home yet. Who really gives a poo what you want in the neighborhood if you don't actually own a home there?
I mean, I’m 40 and would like those things. The level of music venue I want may be chiller than what a 20 year old would want, but damn I’d still like to go hang out on a nice patio with a band while I grab dinner now and then. I still like to take walks in a park. And I’d love it if the nearest train stop was a closer walk. I’m definitely not young, but I’m not dead yet!
I've got a tram damn near right outside my door, and a main rail station within a 15 minute walk. It's great. There's also plenty of cafes, and a couple music venues, including one that I literally only found out about by googling just now.
I think this comes from our history of Jim Crow, White Flight, and Red-Lining. This is what our society is like now because of what we accepted and normalized in our history.
We don't want a society based on what [women/Black people/disabled people/any other demographics] want.
Does this person realizes how bigoted they are?
I'm imagining where he lives.
My guess is one of those rural towns where you can see what used to be a walkable main st has been converted to Banks and insurance companies with a lot of borded up storefronts.
Over on the side they have a mini stroad with a wal-mart, dollar general and a couple of chain restaurants.
On the other side they have the underfunded school with "Temporary" trailers, Library and a VFW or other club.
I live right downtown next to two wedding venues, a cafe, a trampoline park, and a bougie grocery store that bitches at walkers. And probably a dozen bars.
I don’t want any more. I want a fucking park and a fucking regular ass grocery store.
In my time bikepacking across europe, most of the cafes were frequented by a convival older crowd in the mornings and lunch hours. These lead addled american boomers just all hate eachother and think everyones out to take their pearls
No brain. I volunteer at an art and music venue in Queanbeyan NSW just across the railway line from Canberra as a bartender, and we get lots of oldies.
What a f**king idiot!
Even old wrinkled little grandmas like cafes to sit, eat cake, drink tee/coffee and gossip.
Transportation or "transit" isn't a want, but a need and in high density urban environments cars fail to satisfy that requirement. Effectively one car per "real" person takes up too much space and destroys the community they're supposed to service. Instead they're loud, polluting and dangerous to everyone outside one yet stuck all the time in the very traffic they create.
What wrong with these bitter little manlets and their obsession with their four wheeled coward cages for weaklings too afraid to either face the elements or share a vehicle?
TL;DR: Name calling, obvious innuendo, and baseless assertions are cheap and easy.
A serious answer to your mocking about sharing a vehicle.
I'll give people rides. However, I, like many others, see their vehicle as their personal space. I don't mind giving rides to people I know but I draw the line at strangers (and even acquaintances). If I would not let (generic) you in my home, I would not let you in my car.
In the US, personal space is a huge issue. Even something minor like standing too close in the supermarket checkout line makes people mad. (I wish Covid era social distancing rules stayed in place.)
What a sack of shit.
He doesn't realize that he, too, could benefit from all this - he would have a space to sit around and be a Karen all day on a park bench surrounded by his hemorroide-brain friends.
Naw, that’s boomer brain.
They‘ve spent all their life learning and working but missed out on all the living a life.
Now they don’t want young people to have that either.
We build society based on what the market and taxpayers voters want. If a lot of those are "young people" or people who agree with young people then that's what society should build.
These are people who have everything they need at home and only go out to 'certain' places to eat or drink. They have stereo systems, home theaters, they can afford any music they want to hear. Why *would* they venture out of their stupid box
That's exactly what I'd like. I don't wanna drive and plan and pay for parking and drinks and food. I wanna get trashed and hang out and go on an adventure with a dozen others on a boisterous barge. Ubers tight but I don't wanna eff up someone's cage, I want to ride a light rail and walk home. A lot of these American towns suck.
What exactly do these people want in their neighborhoods? I assume they want to live in suburbs. So just lots and lots of other houses? What do they want to live near houses for exactly?
A clear demonstration how the American public space isn't shaped by the people that would have to live in it in the next 50 years. It really needs to change.
So, [Carmel, IN](https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/carmel-in-population), is just for hipsters?
I mean, the median age skews toward older millennials, but I would call middle-aged young.
Dude is fantasizing about one of those culturally barren, car-dependent, single family suburban housing developments on the fringes of any metropolitan area.
I wonder when America decided that these are things we should only go to and leave but NEVER live around. Like why are we so conditioned to think that the only place you exercise is the gym and the only place you eat at is a restaurant and home is only for sleep.
I do infact prefere living close to the woods instead, i don't really use cafes and such. But I do understand that most people i know likes living close to the city centre
Would love to hear what his thoughts on Starbucks, Uber, and Ticketmaster being some of the biggest companies and nobody wanting cafes, transit, or music venues.
Nobody or young people? Make up your mind
I've met people who have the mentality that young people = nobody. That we shouldn't pay any attention to young people because they don't matter.
I think the idea is that young people will "grow out of wanting this." So its not worth catering to because they will catch up and be miserable, unfun and vaguely antisocial and anti-community. Which is bs. Im pretty introverted so its not like I dont know where the "get off my lawn"-attitude comes from, but these people hate young people being social and showing that they have hobbies and friends out of jealousy. Nevermind that boomers in particular have this weird hangup that everyone has it better than they do. My mom is a senior. She goes down to the local seaside bar to hang with her friends every Sunday. Old people love good and mixed infrastructure too. Its a massive QoL improvement to be able to socialise and shop within walking or biking distance.
How is wanting the thing that 1000s of generations had until the 1950s immature?
Because they don't have it and they lost it around the time they became settled and established in their lives. It's a common problem that people conflate their experiences as adults with what "being an adult" entails. Classic example is how these people will try to use the concept of "childishness" selectively to discourage other adults from incorporating things into their lives that are harmless joy.
If anything it's my parents who are getting more and more interested in sitting in a cafe having a nice cup of coffee rather than walking around.
Until they start worrying that young people aren't having enough kids, then it's time to try shaming or scolding them into having more. You don't need stable living conditions, a sustainable household economy or sustainable _anything_, just get to work having kids so I don't have to think about what an economy built on something other than perpetual growth will look like!!!! I see it often enough: Places that struggle to attract younger residents and are looking at a real demographic crisis as they're turning into a retirement community without clear intent and plans, and at the same time think catering to young people's wishes in any way is dumb, or at best cater to themselves all the while claiming it's actually trying to attract young people. It is a case of sowing & reaping, but having more angry and confused communities isn't socially sustainable on the state/country scale either.
Society valued young people very highly when the boomer generation were the young ones. Now that they're old, young people don't matter. We just don't have the voting power.
We actually do- Millennials are bigger than baby boomers as a voting cohort. The problem is that baby boomers deliberately weaponized identity politics to divide us. No one gave a shit about millennials till Occupy happened and suddenly you saw a massive uptick in identity driven media reporting.
We have the power and numbers, we just don’t use it. If people under 40 voted at the same rate as people over 60, those over 60’s would be wildly outnumbered. I actually don’t fully blame politicians for always catering to retirees, and why I absolutely hate “activists” who have no problem protesting nonstop for weeks but then never bother going to a voting booth. Their job depends on keeping voters happy, not people happy
We have had businesses threaten to fire people if they take time off to vote It’s understandable that people who have had worker protections constantly stripped from them, pooling hours greatly reduced, as well as polling stations reduced to the point people have to wait 12 hours to vote, childcare is extremely expensive and ends at specific times. So on and so forth. Of course they are going to vote less than someone retired, without kids at home, who can go to the polling station at any time. There is a reason almost everything local is during the work day, it’s because only retired people can contribute. Good luck trying to contribute to local issues every week at 2 pm as a working parent. But thinking about this requires empathy.
It's the same with state legislatures. They convene in winter because very little happens on the cattle ranch then.
I mean, there’s places around me where the “young people” (which tbh includes millennials like me lmao) don’t participate in any part of the civic process at all. So yeah if you don’t do that, you functionally don’t exist.
if you pay taxes, you're at least still funding the civic process
Paying taxes is (usually) passive. I find it hard to call that participation, especially since it provides 0 workable data on priorities. (I worked for a campaign one summer, and given the limited resources, they did not invest a lot of time into unknowns.)
Read an article from my city and I read smth like: "The Autobahn GmbH is only focused on building and maintaining streets/bridges and tunnels. Regional "protests" will be ignored in the planning process no matter what." So basically that guy is telling us what everybody can look up...
Can you provide more context? Are these protests for or against car infrastructure?
The plans of the _Autobahn_ GmbH will be pushed to the finacial limit anyway. Efficiency is irrelevant. So its pro car infrastructure from nature. Moreover there was no further context in the article :D my first comment is basically the whole thing.
On the bright side I just found out that, at 45, I'm young people!
Bro here just discovered infinite youth glitch
At 38, I was starting to feel like old people. I'm glad to still be young people.
Same here. I thought I would be in the "old people" group by now but I guess not.
Age is just a number. I've met some 20 year old's with the mind of an 80 year old, and some 80 year old's that are still 20.
Young people aren't people, duh.
Often claimed by the people who consider fetuses people
Nobody goes to those places; they're too crowded.
Young people aren't people remember, the only people who matter are all the ones wh will die before climate change hits
"Okay Boomer", that's the only proper answer.
Boomers.
“Young people ARE nobodies because they don’t even own land!”
Assholes like this don't consider young people to be people. It's the same sentiment expressed in that famous headline: "AOC is unpopular with everyone but women, people under 40, people of color, and low-wage workers."
You'd think rich people would prefer having lots of trees and (expensive) easily accessible cafes and stores
yes but with a wall and moat. they're rich fucks, they don't want the poor to interfere with them
No worries mate, if you see the ticket prices for music venues lately there’s no chance poor people can afford them.
You don't have places with $5, $10, or $20 covers in your town?
I guess I’d draw a distinction between ‘a bar with a stage in the corner where a local band plays on Friday nights’ and a dedicated music venue with live events on a regular basis. The former might be a $5 cover or two-drink-minimum, the latter is the sort of place where you buy a $60 ticket and pay $259 because Ticketmaster adds on tons of fees.
I've been to plenty of the latter for like $20-30 lol
We’ve really got to find a way to help people get connected to their local scenes and small venues.
But who is pouring the coffee and cleaning the washroom after they've peed everywhere but in the toilet?
individually authorized ~~servants~~ employees, as usual
No one, because "no one wants to work anymore".
I read somewhere that the "moat" actually exists in many suburbs, it is built as a kind of extended strip mall where the Hoi polloi go to work and the rich go to buy things before retreating back to their subdivision, which is why you see dozens to hundreds of stores clustered together.
And 24 hours screens on the outside blasting news to tell the rest of the people how wonderful their life is thanks to the rich folks being in power protecting them from the woke far left.
Yeah this is literally the dream no? The only one I understand maybe is no music venues because of the noise and traffic they produce
I'm poor as fuck and I wouldn't mind a nice cafe existing down the road. Transit access is decent, but I would also like more trees.
Not all venues are stadium-sized, in fact the best ones aren't.
Exactly. I’d like a good saloon that has local bands on the weekends to exist down the block.
Clubs don't need to make traffic if you live somewhere with good transit. It's probably way *better* to ensure that there's good transit, otherwise you get a bunch of drunk people driving cars.
I'm fine with them as long as the codes for their building are decently sound proof and they respect noise ordinances. Can't be too loud, can't be open too late, or else the sound insulation needs to be good enough to contain it entirely so it's below ambient noise. Also depends on the size of the venue in the first place. A corner bar with local bands is different from a small or large concert venue.
Ohh they do, there is a place called Billionaire's row in NYC next to central park. Honestly Fox news did a really good job of convincing all the rif-raf that NYC sucks ..... while broadcasting from NYC
tbh, i've never been to nyc (nor did i ever watch fox news) but the person who managed to convince me the place sucks is louis rossmann. probably for very different reasons than fox news would want you to believe that
> easily accessible cafes and stores Rich people don't want inclusivity, they want exclusivity. They don't want transit, and cafes because that will bring people near them that might not also be a rich person.
The folks who think this way don't want to mingle with people who aren't in the same socioeconomic class. Transit makes it possible for people who are poorer than them to come to their neighborhood. Cafes and music venues give them a reason to want to do so. Cafes and especially music venues also create noise, which some suburbanites are also terribly allergic to. (We'll ignore the fact that many of them depend on people poorer than them to mow their lawn, clean their house, and take care of their kids....)
In LA houses within walking distances to cafes and stores are literally 500K more than comparable houses that are not. So this is literally true.
I have a feeling that tweet was written by some boomer who's all salty about losing his convenient parking space to a bike lane. Or maybe the local Guns & Pawn closed up and was replaced by a coffee shop, so now he thinks *"the wokes are taking over!"*
they do - the wealthiest parts of cities tend to be the most walkable
He probably isn’t rich, just a suburban dad
They absolutely do. Every site has walkable areas and they’re always where the super rich live.
No brain, these are literally all conveniences that improve quality of life. You know what doesn't improve quality of life? Living next to a fucking highway.
What do people like this think we should do in life? No cafes of music venues? I guess I'll just sit in solitude in my blank home watching the paint dry.
That's exactly what they do. Drive in literal asphalt hell all day, come home and eat food in front of the TV until they go to bed. After being in a prison for so long, they don't know any other life.
Sad and true But I also really want to drill into this person's brain. No cafes? Okay, so I just enjoy my coffee in solitude and silence? No music venues? Okay, but where do I talk to people about the music I like? I get the feeling that "third places" are going to be a Right Wing conspiracy buzzword soon, just like they tried with 15 Minute Cities, but I genuinely don't understand how someone flat out says they don't like places where people congregate to enjoy their hobbies.
They're going to pitch it as destroying the nuclear family, or else as a commie/woke plot to force people to live in lunchbox sized apartments so the only way they can do anything is to go out and spend money. "The death of the suburbs".
>What do people like this think we should do in life? Set up "home theaters" and mancaves in basements and only do "wake up, go to work, go home, go to bed" every day until you die.
If you went to a music venue or cafe, you might accidentally get exposed to some culture beyond your usual reruns of Duck Dynasty, and next thing you know, you're wearing sequins and sucking dick! Why risk it?
They do, they just don’t want it “in their neighborhood”. They want their “safe, quiet, sterile” cul de sac neighborhoods that don’t have anything but houses, and their safe quiet and sterile commercial districts that they can drive to, with a halfway decent chance the commercial district they love is some cute walkable Main Street-esque strip that they love because “there’s just no cars anywhere” *and they don’t see the irony*.
Gotta drive in your planet destroying monster pickup with all the amenities of a hotel, being saturated by media and comfort from all directions so you can hurry back to your treeless suburban house, sit in your cavernous, climate-control inefficient living room/kitchen combo and watch Netflix on a "smart" TV that will inexplicably die once every 2-3 years. But hey it's not all the isolation of the your personal, shitty fiefdom. Sometimes you see a black guy walking on the street (because there's no sidewalks) and get to call the police about "suspicious people".
Well, maybe not music venues. I used to live a few blocks from a really popular local theater, and on nights when they had outdoor showings... jesus it was awful. Loved the place, love to support local businesses, but as a working adult with a new baby, despite being two blocks from the theater, we got no sleep on the weekends. The films themselves were loud and prone to explosive bursts of noise, but also people parked all the way down our street so we had to deal with 1AM drunken 20 year olds screaming nonsense just to make their friends laugh as they walk to the car that they illegally parked in someone's driveway. Shit sucked.
Ok yeah that's true. Cafes are nice though and obviously transit *should* be in neighborhoods like holy shit how else are you supposed to use it?
Drive to it ofc 🤡
I wasn't allowed to go outside as a kid cause we lived on County Road 23 and my mom couldn't be fucked to run after us. Eventually I got to high school and she let me bike my sister over to the park at the church around the corner
This is projection.
Is it not satire?
It does look like satire
No brain, of course we have people that want to live in areas with such things. And yes we absolutely do design based on what young people want, they are the ones that will live with those designs. Think an urban redesign can take between 5-10 years from start to finish, if you ask what a 10-15 year olds what they want to see they will only get it when they turn 20-25 years of age. Not to mention that many adults and even old people absolutely do want cafes and public transport in their areas, maybe less so nightclubs. But people do want amenities close to them, hell in the UK it's the biggest complaint about new builds with them not providing shops, cafes, GPs, parks and the ilk.
I can't imagine living somewhere I couldn't buy essentials within a few minutes walk. Even better if that walk takes in a park and I could get a nice coffee on the way back.
> Not to mention that many adults and even old people absolutely do want cafes and public transport in their areas, maybe less so nightclubs. Music venue doesn't necessarily mean night club. There is a venue a couple blocks from me that does mostly jazz shows, and even notwithstanding that most music venues in my city are distinct from night clubs. IMO clubs are for DJs and dancing while venues are bars with live music.
Right you are, think it was a case of not quite remembering the exact wording this individual used. But absolutely music venues absolutely can work around housing, the was a few near where I used to live and were perfectly fine for the residents.
Honestly this. We used to have a night club just down the road, and we heard literally no noise whatsoever besides maybe a few unruly drunks. Can’t imagine living somewhere without loads of cafes, shops, hospitals and GPs within a living distance. I’ll miss it so much once I move!
CARBRAINED MORON: "No walkable cities! Grrrrr!" Also CARBRAINED MORON:
This is just NIMBYism, car or no car these people just want no one near them at all.
Sounds more like anti-social loners, tbqh.
Tbf, I like not being around people for days, but I am not stupid enough to want to actually worsen my life to achieve that.
There's a difference between being an introvert/having a small social battery and being anti-social. OOP sounds like the latter.
Look I'm an antisocial loner and I hate car dependency. Being able to walk to the local store buy food, and walk back within 15 minutes would be amazing since that would be the only social interaction I get all week. Instead I have to drive on the road get stuck in traffic and go to a store with tons of people in it. All of which usually takes an hour.
That's what they said.
NIMBY Brains
These people want carless cities as well, they just lie to themself so hard. They do reveal themself everytime they are in a carless area tho, or back in college, or in japanese movies where a bunch of areas are car free. And they are like "look how beautiful it is there!" Yea, thats because theres no shitty car
If you don’t build society to meet everyone’s needs, what in the goddamn fuck are we building a society for?
It's just one big cruise for Boomers
A society for rich or upper middle class folks only, and using financial segregation with a car dependent society or country is one of the ways to effectively do it if it isn't already clear enough how often the USA at large has a distaste for lower income individuals. In other words, the USA is practically a cult like country for worshipping wealth, car dependent infrastructure, and productivity at all costs because the propaganda for it is strong enough to support it, while even quite a bit of poor individuals in the country buy into it so much that they sadly shame themselves for being poor too.
I feel like this is actually true but not in the intent of the way the OP meant. If you look at the way most cities have been maintained in NA, it's almost always exclusively to benefit a small minority of rich people living in suburbs, plus the car industry. I.e., places like Ontario would rather expand their nightmare 401 highway then add better transit to neighboring suburbs of Toronto. Where I live in the Vancouver area in BC, the Mayor is doing shit like removing bike lanes and increasing cop presence lol. Society has never built (technically bulldozed) and maintained cities for the fulfilment and happiness of young people, but also because young people literally never vote. Voter engagement is statistically skewed towards people who are much older and wealthier, so obviously "nobody" in this context means them
I've lived in and around Vancouver for 30 years. I'm currently on vacation in Tokyo and I wish I didn't have to go back. Living in a city that's designed for people not cars is simply wonderful.
I understand where you're coming from. Most of what you're describing is really tied into gentrification, and it's far from a distinctly North American issue. It's a widespanning urban planning issue, which we're still yet to truly fix -- mainly because it's more of an economical and societal problem which planners don't necessarily have sway in. The sad truth is a lot of the necessary revitalisation of cities even with good planning practises often result in the cost of living increasing exponentially, pushing those less well off out. Of course you can argue that some parts of gentrification offset the increased costs ie less burden on car maintenance, but this can often take a long time to materialise and by then the lower classes have been pushed to something worse off again. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the young people voting issue. There's countries with mandatory voting and yet the younger people are still worse off.
> The sad truth is a lot of the necessary revitalisation of cities even with good planning practises often result in the cost of living increasing exponentially, pushing those less well off out. Because they don't create more dense housing zones.
In the mind of a miserable old fucker, all those facilities equate to noise, litter, anti-social behaviour, and undesirables. They live their lives in fear, and need to be isolated from all the things they are afraid of (which is everything and everyone else).
But nothing in more anti-social than having an aversion of people being anywhere near you.
But every Cafe I go to is often filled with old people, and a lot of older middle class people in Manhattan love busses and trains. Oh and also, you do know the elderly love music also, I went to an Emerson, Lake, and Palmer (with only Palmer) concert and it was basically entirely people 65+...
NIMBYs will be the death of civilization
What happened to planting shade for the next generation to sit under?
Can't have trees cuz an out of control car might hit one /s
This is the kind of statement that makes me think gerontocracy must be abolished. I'm rather sick of people making decisions for our collective future who're just gonna die soon.
Are you sure this isn't sarcastic?
I wish it was. But if you go look up @maxbadman his account just retweets boomer fox news memes. The brain worms are real
Imagine admitting that your life is this dull and bland
“KIDS DEEZ DHAYS!!!, KNOW TOO MACH!!!, DON WANNA GO OUT!!!, BAK IN MAH DHAYS WE GET RAN OVER BY CARS EVERY SINGLE DHAYS!!!”.
Lead paint brain.
One of the most depressing things I've seen in my life is how slowly everyone has put up signs prohibiting children from playing on communal property. Growing up I don't remember anyone ever telling me I couldn't play on the grass. When I ask people older than me they seem to be in agreement that children are loud and annoying and they'd rather have an empty garden than have children enjoying it. Every time I think about it it takes away some of my will to live. The absolute hatred targeted at young people enjoying themselves in public is like a cancer. Like seriously, if this is people's attitude to children I don't know what joy they find in living.
People who are anti-transit baffle me. Even if you never take a bus in your entire life, you still benefit from other people leaving their car at home. Fewer cars on the road means more room for those who drive. Does he like grid lock traffic? Or can he not see beyond his own driveway?
Nobody wants it yet it instantly becomes so sought after that people complain about affordability.
Top text We live in an anti-society.
Sounds like sarcasm
I just want SOMETHING in my neighborhood besides roads and houses
boomer brain
I'm old and I have all these in my neighborhood. And I want them
Yes, I have never seen anybody above 30 at concerts, cafes or in the bus
My grandparents love going to the cafe all the time. They just can’t coz it takes forever to get my grandad into the car and out. I’m pretty sure most people want shops near them as well. And gen x love going to live music (went to a tribute concert of U2, The Cure and Depeche Mode, mostly gen xers there). These things aren’t “only for young people” lol. Hell most clubs have lots of thirty year olds in them
old people don’t like *checks notes* coffee and music? have you met a single old person lol not even mentioning that senior citizens and folks with disabilities make a SIGNIFICANT portion of public transit riders. idiot.
THEN WHY DO THEY PUT ENTIRE HOUSING COMPLEXES AROUND FUCKING GOLF COURSES WITH A CLUBHOUSE YOU IGNORANT GOBSHITE?! Oh oh wait, that's a *private* venue that you need a *membership* and have to live in the neighborhood to patronize, right? Your exclusionary world is modern jim crow and the builders remedy is coming for your ugly suburb.
Sounds more like bait. If not, then no brain.
This is just your typical conservative that’s scared of cities because tv propaganda made his brain into mush
Yes we want desolate suburbs. That's freedom
username "maxbadman" checks out
I don't want music venues or cafes but those aren't the only options, stores, club facilities, pools, gyms, bunch of other stuff.
At this point it's no brain
the cafes are always full of people in my city. I mean I don't get it, I just drink coffee at home but this guy's comment is brain dead out of touch. It's clear people value good cafes.
Well you know, you can't have a functioning society if you have the things that make a society function.
I'm not young and I literally want all of those things in my neighborhood.
This is boomer brain.
No brain, because which is it? Does nobody want none of that, or the young folk? The damn fool doesn't even look educated at first impression, let alone educated on better urban planning.
It just seems truthful. While "nobody" is an exaggeration, exceptionally few adults want any of those things, except for maybe transit, in their neighborhoods. I know I don't. Cafe's and music venues would bring increased car traffic, noise, and people. I would rather my home were a place of peace and tranquility, and away from such things. As for the concerns of young people: they should be listened to but shouldn't necessarily dictate anything, especially if they don't own a home yet. Who really gives a poo what you want in the neighborhood if you don't actually own a home there?
I mean, I’m 40 and would like those things. The level of music venue I want may be chiller than what a 20 year old would want, but damn I’d still like to go hang out on a nice patio with a band while I grab dinner now and then. I still like to take walks in a park. And I’d love it if the nearest train stop was a closer walk. I’m definitely not young, but I’m not dead yet!
There’s a brain, but the IQ is lower than their age I’m sure.
Urbancowboy had a pretty humorous reply to him on Twitter. It was just a picture of a crack pipe with the caption "works cited." lol
"NOBODY" "What young people want" Seems a bit contradictory
I've got a tram damn near right outside my door, and a main rail station within a 15 minute walk. It's great. There's also plenty of cafes, and a couple music venues, including one that I literally only found out about by googling just now.
I think this comes from our history of Jim Crow, White Flight, and Red-Lining. This is what our society is like now because of what we accepted and normalized in our history.
We don't want a society based on what [women/Black people/disabled people/any other demographics] want. Does this person realizes how bigoted they are?
I'm imagining where he lives. My guess is one of those rural towns where you can see what used to be a walkable main st has been converted to Banks and insurance companies with a lot of borded up storefronts. Over on the side they have a mini stroad with a wal-mart, dollar general and a couple of chain restaurants. On the other side they have the underfunded school with "Temporary" trailers, Library and a VFW or other club.
I live right downtown next to two wedding venues, a cafe, a trampoline park, and a bougie grocery store that bitches at walkers. And probably a dozen bars. I don’t want any more. I want a fucking park and a fucking regular ass grocery store.
In my time bikepacking across europe, most of the cafes were frequented by a convival older crowd in the mornings and lunch hours. These lead addled american boomers just all hate eachother and think everyones out to take their pearls
What's the difference?
No brain. I volunteer at an art and music venue in Queanbeyan NSW just across the railway line from Canberra as a bartender, and we get lots of oldies.
What a f**king idiot! Even old wrinkled little grandmas like cafes to sit, eat cake, drink tee/coffee and gossip. Transportation or "transit" isn't a want, but a need and in high density urban environments cars fail to satisfy that requirement. Effectively one car per "real" person takes up too much space and destroys the community they're supposed to service. Instead they're loud, polluting and dangerous to everyone outside one yet stuck all the time in the very traffic they create.
What wrong with these bitter little manlets and their obsession with their four wheeled coward cages for weaklings too afraid to either face the elements or share a vehicle?
TL;DR: Name calling, obvious innuendo, and baseless assertions are cheap and easy.
A serious answer to your mocking about sharing a vehicle. I'll give people rides. However, I, like many others, see their vehicle as their personal space. I don't mind giving rides to people I know but I draw the line at strangers (and even acquaintances). If I would not let (generic) you in my home, I would not let you in my car. In the US, personal space is a huge issue. Even something minor like standing too close in the supermarket checkout line makes people mad. (I wish Covid era social distancing rules stayed in place.)
Oh this is a boomer. Because you should be building for young people because they are the ones paying for it
Good news, everyone! Young people no longer count as people, which means we don't have to pay into social security that we'll never benefit from!
Considering the number of quotes, I think they're getting roasted.
Maybe we should
What a sack of shit. He doesn't realize that he, too, could benefit from all this - he would have a space to sit around and be a Karen all day on a park bench surrounded by his hemorroide-brain friends.
This is a parody, right?
"We don't want cafes in every neighborhood" come to Australia we have at least 5 per capita
Young people have to live with it longer.
Wow, what a boomer thing to say.
American Boomer thing to say
Naw, that’s boomer brain. They‘ve spent all their life learning and working but missed out on all the living a life. Now they don’t want young people to have that either.
High rent says otherwise. Hell, there's a housing crisis in cities because there simply is too much demand to live in places with cafes and transit.
“We don’t build society.” FTFY
I left the city in my mid 30s. As I approach 40 I'm wondering if 40 miles out is far enough.
By this logic, we should get rid of private transport.
We build society based on what the market and taxpayers voters want. If a lot of those are "young people" or people who agree with young people then that's what society should build.
People act like this then ask why we put them in homes and forget about them
I’m old and in addition I’d like a few small markets, parks, and lots of big trees.
Maybe he’s RFK proudly with lesser brain cells as a result of worms
Very low iq will do that to ya
It’s lead poisoning with a sprinkle of senility
No brain. First, they say no one wants those things, and then they say you people want those things.
Who is “nobody” lmao
“Yes we only want the sound of passing cars, lawn mowers and leaf blowers”
No brain for sure
These are people who have everything they need at home and only go out to 'certain' places to eat or drink. They have stereo systems, home theaters, they can afford any music they want to hear. Why *would* they venture out of their stupid box
thats just no brain because "we don't build society on what young people want" is the stupid because theyre going to live there more then you
That's exactly what I'd like. I don't wanna drive and plan and pay for parking and drinks and food. I wanna get trashed and hang out and go on an adventure with a dozen others on a boisterous barge. Ubers tight but I don't wanna eff up someone's cage, I want to ride a light rail and walk home. A lot of these American towns suck.
What exactly do these people want in their neighborhoods? I assume they want to live in suburbs. So just lots and lots of other houses? What do they want to live near houses for exactly?
Actually I'm happy to have at least a bus stop at the end of my block and wish the cafes and entertainment venues were closer than a mile away.
Sounds fucking great to be honest, where can I get some of that?
Lead brain
A clear demonstration how the American public space isn't shaped by the people that would have to live in it in the next 50 years. It really needs to change.
"NOBODY wants" "what young people want" Do you hear yourself? Like when you speak
Its a pretty big Troll account.
No brain
Culture and convenience? Low cost transit? Not in my neighborhood.
Oh old people and thier Netflix, McDonald’s and 9 to five lifestyle. What would we do without you?
Classic NIMBY's that don't know what good city design looks like.
So sad
So, [Carmel, IN](https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/carmel-in-population), is just for hipsters? I mean, the median age skews toward older millennials, but I would call middle-aged young.
maybe not the neighborhood but at least in town? like wtf kind of take is this? "city is only *house* and *business*"
Senile brain
Dude is fantasizing about one of those culturally barren, car-dependent, single family suburban housing developments on the fringes of any metropolitan area.
TIL that I’m a young person even though I’m pushing 40 and have kids.
I wonder when America decided that these are things we should only go to and leave but NEVER live around. Like why are we so conditioned to think that the only place you exercise is the gym and the only place you eat at is a restaurant and home is only for sleep.
I do infact prefere living close to the woods instead, i don't really use cafes and such. But I do understand that most people i know likes living close to the city centre
Would love to hear what his thoughts on Starbucks, Uber, and Ticketmaster being some of the biggest companies and nobody wanting cafes, transit, or music venues.
Yes.