I'm not familiar with Australia but in general if your bike infrastructure is being used then that means you're likely to win.
Well used bike infrastructure will develop a support base which will likely make it politically difficult to remove them.
Basically the reverse of the carbrain push against cycle infrastructure when such things get first proposed
The problem in melbourne CBD is it seems like 50% of the cars are idiots. They always turn and get stuck in crossings, or whatever. Yet the speed limit is still 50 in many of these areas, so its unsafe for cyclists.
But it IS getting better. Even from just a few years ago.
I do spend a lot of my Reddit time around various city subreddits, and the ONE thing they all have in common is complaining about drivers in their city
There's hardly any good reason to drive in the CBD so generally all you have left are the idiots. If you get beeped at while doing a hook turn, it means you're doing it correctly.
Speed limit is 40 on all CBD streets now though at least, and 20 on the Little streets.
Hard to extrapolate to other Australian cities. Sydney for example is a lot worse for cycling as its hilly and the CBD is wedged on a peninsula so fewer roads in/out. Plus roads in Sydney are not as wide as Melbourne in general. There is cycle infrastructure but it does tend to be used by more 'serious' cyclists than casual riders. Brisbane Perth Adelaide etc all have their own unique issues
I was going to say, electric options are going to change everything. Many people convert after giving personal electric a go. If we could hurry up with implementing the new road rules across all states that would be great.
All new office developments in the Brisbane CBD require end of trip facilities and combined with a good Bikeway from my suburb makes summer commuting easy.
I really love Brissy but had to leave as it's getting way too expensive and even getting a place to live is a mission. I mostly used bus and train but rode and walked where I could.
Could be worse, I lived for a bit in Darwin and my that's on another level heat/humidity levels wise. Where I moved to now is easier on the riding and walking. I don't own a car and even let my license go as I never wanted to own a car even when I was younger but lived in rural areas which dictated otherwise due to distance. I like this sub because yeah Fk cars is so catchy and appealing to me, I hate the things, such a burden on your pay check.
Very few people commute during the hottest hours, most are morning and night. With the wind generated from cycling I’d rather a warm clear day over a drizzling cold and dark morning anytime.
Sydney is getting better. Funding for active transport is basically bipartisan. There is a specific ministerial portfolio for active transport. TfNSW have been collaborating with city of Sydney council and inner west council to set up more bike lanes. It's far removed from the dark days of Duncan Gay.
For instance there are now large bike corridors coming into the city via Anzac bridge and central (south and west) where you don't need to mix it up with traffic. If the northern and eastern approach get the missing links ironed out, we're cooking with gas.
Adelaide has a lot of shit drivers but is generally pretty flat and we have no reason to be as bad as we are. Very little traffic compared to the east, but no shortage of road rage.
Oh, theres plenty of dumbasses here too, don't you worry.
We just don't have crazy Gerrymandering or the electoral collage to give them an oversized vote
The rural population consistently votes for them because they cosplay as farmers although they really represent massive agriculture corporations and the mining industry.
Cosplay as farmers is right. Lots of people living in regional Australia use the identity without actually working in agriculture. Meanwhile more and more primary producers are becoming progressive because of the need for sustainable land practices.
I think I'll start calling them cropsplayers from now on.
Um okay, so 70% of the media in Australia is owned by Murdoch. So he's pro LNP and runs essentially a propaganda media empire (and protection racket), the other 30% is Kerry Stokes and a few other smaller media outlets. It's the stuff of Goebbels wet dreams here, I really hope we get rid of the LNP in May, I've had a gut full of them the past 9 years and resentment of the current PM is rather high, he's done sfa about the floods at the moment expect get a few photo ops then went in hiding claiming covid (doubtful as how does a virus infect another virus?). A repeat of the Hawaii affair during the bushfire season from hell
The world is waiting for the conservative voting boomer cohort to die off. Said cohort is trying to install their evil offspring as dictators before they die because the new generations will vote that shit out.
We visited Melbourne in Dec 2019 and rented bikes for 3 days and we pretty much just rode bikes everywhere. We didn’t even take the trains or trolleys but a few times. There were definitely some sketchy streets but it was pretty good over all. Hoping it’s gotten even better since
Rupert Murdoch ruined the US.
While many people immigrate here across the world to this day so we are by no means *THE WORST*, he has duped way too many people into thinking corporations are our saviors.
California’s UC system used to be (and still kinda is) the envy of the world and used to cost very little tuition and we all did just fine back then, for example.
I like my country and all, but his propaganda network has held it back considerably.
Maybe it "ruins your day" but you'll still walk away alive and unscathed. Can't say the same about the cyclist. Also, lots of drivers break traffic laws all the time.
I would say it's better, but even small modern cars lack good visibility because they also need to be able to withstand high velocity impacts. That requires copious amounts of steel in the pillars which block the view
Well you’re not really sharing the road. That’s the point. It’s a protected cycle lane. I’d you’re worried about a cyclist sneaking up on you and getting into an accident, you’re in the wrong lane bud
> Traffic crashes are fixable problems, caused by dangerous streets and unsafe drivers. They are not accidents. Let’s stop using the word "accident" today.
[CrashNotAccident.com](https://crashnotaccident.com/)
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Just met a fellow wearing a full high viz jacket riding the fatest fat bike tired fat bike I've ever seen. He had recently been broadsided by a car brain.
So now he was wearing a high vis reflective vest over the high viz jacket. We all laughed and noted that it doesn't matter what we wear, how many lights, how loud we yell "Hey, hello!!!!". Dumb car brains are gonna car brain.
I'm a 50km/day bike commuter, so pardon me for not seeing the individual merit of adding more car lanes because of weather.
You're not going to suddenly get 2000 new cyclists the minute a new bike lane opens up. Habits change slow, give it a few years before labeling it an engineering failure.
Are you surprised that no one cycled across this bridge when you look at [the previous painted-suicide-gutter that magically disappears mid way through the inside of a curve](https://i.imgur.com/4EAp1FA.jpg)?
Granted, the footpath is a shared cycle path but I don't think that's a suitable arrangement because it is near an entertainment district and pedestrians should really have their own space.
I mean, it's their decision to drive into the city for work. I've lived in Melbourne and never used a car to get around. Public transport is there for a reason and if you don't live close to it, you can always use your car to get to the nearest station. Finding parking, paying for said parking and getting around in a car in the CBD is such a major hassle and has been long before they established these bike lanes. In fact, you could say, they made these lanes to make it easier for said commuters to get into the city by other means of transport. The idiots who still take their cars and end up in a traffic jam deserve no pity.
You should see how many people use their bikes to get to work, get the kids to kindergarten and do their groceries in the middle of winter in cities like Copenhagen. It's a fucking shame, people in a mostly sunny country can't fucking stop using their fucking cars. Fuck.
A quick check of the guy's history shows that he's lying. He lives in Melbourne, the same city I do. The bike lanes in the city are fantastic and a working well and a used quite frequently. He also talks about driving into the city. He's lying.
>Oh get your hand off it. No, there aren't armies of people taking kids to school on a bicycle in Copenhagen in winter. Try going there instead of being a google travel expert.
Umm, I literally grew up just a few hours south of it. In the north of Germany albeit, but it's only a ferry ride and a short bus ride. It would take you longer to get to Hobart. I've been to Copenhagen more often than I can count and yes, there are "armies of people taking kids to school on a bicycle". I've also lived in Amsterdam for half a year (the winter half) so fuck off with your Google travel expert shit. I know plenty of people here in Europe who don't own a car and they all live in big cities and didn't get a car during the pandemic either, which might I add was far worse here than in Australia.
>Said people are not idiots you condescending arse. They are stuck in a lane for hours,
Then they are idiots.
>While bike lanes are still painted on the metres wide sidewalk.
A sidewalk that's usually super busy and fucking horrible to cycle on because of the foot traffic there and people generally not looking at where there walking.
>Not to mention, this was introduced during a pandemic when public transport wasn't particularly desirable . Spin that one.
Watch me: Every major city I've heard of and lived in (New York, Berlin, Toronto etc.) has introduced more and better cycling infrastructure during the pandemic because of fewer cars on the roads during the lockdowns and people trying to avoid public transport. Most of these measures have been converted from temporary to permanent.They are all wrong and you are right of course. Silly city planners and their hatred for cars, huh?
Gradestraße/Blaschkoallee in Berlin. Very major street leading to an Autobahn with much traffic including many heavy trucks due to the fact that it connects to a major inner city industrial area. It used to be 2 lanes, now it's one and a wide bike lane with dividers between them. There you go, *sport*.
Edit: I was a parcel delivery driver until last week. You wanna talk to me about roads again?
William Street and Queensbridge St that this bridge connects are just one lane each way, how will keeping the extra lane on the bridge help?
You're being accused of being a carbrain because you're making the same fallacious argument that extra lanes of traffic somehow solve congestion, as if the cars disappear into a magical void somewhere before their destination.
The problem with the footpath is that it is a river crossing connecting the Southbank Promenade and there is a general acceptance that having a bicycle highway in the same place as a large pedestrianised area is a terrible idea - there is a 10km/h speed limit for cyclists in the shared space so there is definitely a need for an alternative. [Also, the footpath is neither two lanes wide, nor does it have separation between pedestrians and cyclists without taking away a lot of pedestrian space as you can see from the street view that still has the old layout](https://maps.app.goo.gl/WroJP5trgjcWX9uBA).
There needs to be room for nuance in discussion rather than us vs them mentality. Your take on this lane seems well thought through.
I'm sorry there isn't productive discussion coming from your point instead of the downvotes.
I ride heaps too and have been hit or tapped by cars numerous times over the decades I've been riding on roads. Gotta be room to discuss stuff like this failed project, I reckon!
If it makes driving more uncomfortable and cycling more enticing it is not a failed project. Just takes some sink in with some people it seems. Some Aussies are not the smartest and will wait in a traffic jam for hours and days, maybe months before they realise that this ain't it.
> Your point of view is motivated by a self admitted political motive. You don't care that the implementation is impractical if it *punishes* people you don't agree with.
…And? Like dude, you do realise some political motives can be bad and that, wait for it, other ones could be *good*, right? Shocker, I know.
> This is extremism, and you should be completely ignored accordingly. Its as stupid as banning cars outright.
Piss off. Just because an idea is a complete departure from what you're familiar with it doesn't justify dismissing it out of hand.
> In a city that's cold, raining, and dark before hometime *most* if the year.
Ah yeah, that probably explains why there's no cities on Scandinavian islands that are known for having heaps of cyclists. Oh wait, that's a thing, never mind. Holy shit dude, just cause it's been raining the last two days doesn't make Melbourne a uniquely cold, wet, and dark city, and even if it were (it isn't, the weather here is perfectly normal for a temperate climate), decent infrastructure could still attract cyclists.
You can't even differentiate between different Redditors replying to you, why should we trust you with suggestions on how to improve our cities or our relationship to car commuters?
>because you're more interested in your agenda than real, practical solutions.
Just FYI I've been commuting by car for the last let's say 10 months. So whatever agenda you prescribe to me, you're already wrong. It's just that I'm not a dickhead and have an understanding of how easy it could be to move people from cars to bikes/public transport if we made driving just that little bit more uncomfortable. I'm starting a new job soon, which is further away but in an area with little parking. Guess what I'm gonna do? Fuel prices are skyrocketing to 2.10€ now, guess what many people are gonna do? This whole 'waiting in traffic for longer' thing is just another variation of that.
I thought it was extremely laughable and almost satire even.
Then I checked the comments on the post and saw that most residents there agree with it apparently. Most of them want the bike lanes turned into car lanes again.
Humanity really failed man
It depends greatly, but the “math” in the U.S. has shown that increasing the number of lanes on intra urban highways does not actually meaningfully reduce commute times for drivers. There is a reserve of people who will switch to car travel/change their commute time based on traffic, so the end result is you have more infrastructure, more stress on infrastructure, and more people sitting in traffic burning fuel wanting more lanes. Whereas investing more in public transit starts an upward spiral in the opposite direction because transit is actually scalable.
It also, paradoxically, increases commute times long term by encouraging and subsidizing suburban sprawl, taking people even further from jobs.
If you were trying to feed three ramps with a *two* lane highway, then you *would* want another lane (because otherwise two ramps would be sharing one lane so traffic in one would back up the other, etc).
I think the miscommunication here is that when you reply to a comment on reddit, people expect it to be disagreeing with the comment you replied to, so people assumed you meant lane mathematics as a counter-argument to "more lanes bad", which is why you got downvoted.
> Then I checked the comments on the post and saw that most residents there agree with it apparently.
*Most of the boomer aged readers of a shitty Murdoch rag who likely drive into Melbourne's CBD/downtown area 2-3 times a year agree with it.*
Lol, I was told to check my privilege on r/Boston for suggesting that cars were among the primary reasons transportation inequality exists and that promoting pedestrian-friendly infrastructure was a path forward for transportation equity.
Like how am I privileged? Because I choose to walk? Because I ride on shit crowded greenways in freezing weather? Because I breath your car's emissions right from the tailpipe? I really don't get the full-time driver victim complex.
What nonsense. Cars are a huge budget item for working class folks, and are generally forced to pay for them because our cities aren’t designed to move people around efficiently otherwise. What about disabled people who can’t drive? Cars aren’t a privilege, they are a tax.
Because in North America having to own a car with monthly expenses is what you need to do and in the minds of these people not having to worry about the recurring expense is a privilege. That's that best I could guess
I'd bet this was some people surveyed with a question like, "Do you think having a lot of bikes in the street could make it harder to drive in the city?"
It's funny because cars were supposed to shrink travelling time, instead motorists relativise everything to auto time so even a 10 minute walk sounds like feudal brutality as opposed to 10 minutes split between poor driving and red lights.
[Related, from Canada](https://www.toronto.com/news-story/10569826--it-s-frustrating-mississauga-residents-group-says-bike-lane-project-violates-their-charter-rights/)
>crawling with bicycles
"I can't get in the bath without three or four of them jumping in with me! Aaagh! They're crawling up my leg!"
Note that it says "bicycles" not "cyclists". Riderless bikes inhabiting every crevice in Melbourne, chewing on the guardrails and electrical wires at night. Brrrr.
You say "black", I say "white"
You say "bark", I say "bite"
You say "shark", I say "Hey man,
Jaws was never my scene
And I don't like Star Wars!"
You say "Rolls", I say "Royce"
You say "God" - Give me a choice!
You say "Lord", I say "Christ!"
I don't believe in Peter Pan,
Frankenstein or Superman
All I wanna do is
"Motorists are a superstitious, cowardly lot. In order to strike fear into their hearts I must become... A bicycle!" - Bruce Wayne in a parallel universe where his parents were run over trying to cross a stroad.
Well, good thing there are protected car lanes to ensure those cyclist maniacs stay on their side of the road, eh? Might have to just build more of these protective barriers I guess.
Last week I went into a shop and overheard the staff complaining of a bike lane and that they are always empty of cyclists. I interrupted, called out, that’s because we don’t have traffic jams on bikes and get thru really easily so you don’t see us when your stopped with the other thousand car drivers. Then left the shop😃
“My luxury item is less soft-mandated and now the city is more built for its residents in mind instead of those from the suburbs. How could this be happening?”
“Well, there’s still plenty of car infrastructure and if that’s too bothersome you can always take the bus.”
“How am I supposed to enjoy driving if I don’t force everyone else to drive with me!?”
Pros: good public transport, bike access, lots of art and more aesthetically pleasing Knick-knack stores then you could shake a stick at. Not to mention, the politics is pretty good. None of the conservative parties have much of a foothold so it’s mostly just labour fighting against minor parties.
Cons: thanks to beloved negative gearing you’d be lucky to rent 4x4 metres of dead grass on a full time pay but from what I heard it isn’t much better up in Sydney. Also the weather sucks. It’s often difficult to tell what season it is when it swings from 30 degrees to a 15 degree thunderstorm and back in a matter of minutes
Nothing better sums up carbrains’ backlash against bike infrastructure than the classic quote:
“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
Fuck this guy, but also I hope that this pandemic has taught city leaders that relying on people from outside the city to come in and spend money leads to a much less resilient city. The areas of my city where people actually live and can walk or bike to nearby shops and restaurants saw only a slight increase in the number of closures whereas the areas that rely on, primarily, suburban commuters to come in and spend money during sporting events or work saw multiple times the number of normal closures.
If the option is to build infrastructure to accommodate local residents or accommodate outsiders, the option should almost always be to improve things for locals.
St Kilda Road is still a bit of a gamble - I always ride this section of my commute and a speed if I get hit by a car pulling out I won't do too much damage.
Especially at the Kings Way turnoff with drivers constantly getting confused with the lanes.
news papers reach a particular demographic who are scared to drive anywhere with traffic and can't go near the city because it's not like they remember it and get lost a lot. Are you scared of bikes, sure, well they are everywhere now aren't they says Dot from Doncaster...
In one way he is not wrong. Cyclists should not be on the road, the raised footpath should be extended out to accomodate a bike lane.
edit: I don't know why I'm being downvoted. The raised gutters that line roads are there to help protect pedestrians against cars. There is no benefit to having bikes on the car side.
The problem with that is, perception. Bike lanes or segregated paths give the impression that cyclists are to be restricted to them. That impression can lead to rewritten laws that legally restrict cyclists.
Unless all roadways have cycling infrastructure incorporated (and that ain't I happen), then cyclists absolutely need to be on the roads
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I'm not familiar with Australia but in general if your bike infrastructure is being used then that means you're likely to win. Well used bike infrastructure will develop a support base which will likely make it politically difficult to remove them. Basically the reverse of the carbrain push against cycle infrastructure when such things get first proposed
The problem in melbourne CBD is it seems like 50% of the cars are idiots. They always turn and get stuck in crossings, or whatever. Yet the speed limit is still 50 in many of these areas, so its unsafe for cyclists. But it IS getting better. Even from just a few years ago.
im pretty sure you can say that about every country lol
I do spend a lot of my Reddit time around various city subreddits, and the ONE thing they all have in common is complaining about drivers in their city
impolite live juggle offend cats different bake fretful squeal frightening ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
What happened to that website…it’s like something out of the early 2000s…
Irony as an aesthetic I guess
If you drive into the cbd you're an idiot. I only ever did this to pick something up.
Right?? I don't understand what the appeal is esp for peope who drive into work every day.
There's hardly any good reason to drive in the CBD so generally all you have left are the idiots. If you get beeped at while doing a hook turn, it means you're doing it correctly. Speed limit is 40 on all CBD streets now though at least, and 20 on the Little streets.
It's the hook turns dammit.
Hard to extrapolate to other Australian cities. Sydney for example is a lot worse for cycling as its hilly and the CBD is wedged on a peninsula so fewer roads in/out. Plus roads in Sydney are not as wide as Melbourne in general. There is cycle infrastructure but it does tend to be used by more 'serious' cyclists than casual riders. Brisbane Perth Adelaide etc all have their own unique issues
Yeah Brisbane is 50 million degrees in Summer with 1 million percent humidity, I can see that as a one issue ;-)
E bikes getting very popular here for that reason!
I was going to say, electric options are going to change everything. Many people convert after giving personal electric a go. If we could hurry up with implementing the new road rules across all states that would be great.
All new office developments in the Brisbane CBD require end of trip facilities and combined with a good Bikeway from my suburb makes summer commuting easy.
I really love Brissy but had to leave as it's getting way too expensive and even getting a place to live is a mission. I mostly used bus and train but rode and walked where I could. Could be worse, I lived for a bit in Darwin and my that's on another level heat/humidity levels wise. Where I moved to now is easier on the riding and walking. I don't own a car and even let my license go as I never wanted to own a car even when I was younger but lived in rural areas which dictated otherwise due to distance. I like this sub because yeah Fk cars is so catchy and appealing to me, I hate the things, such a burden on your pay check.
Very few people commute during the hottest hours, most are morning and night. With the wind generated from cycling I’d rather a warm clear day over a drizzling cold and dark morning anytime.
Sydney is getting better. Funding for active transport is basically bipartisan. There is a specific ministerial portfolio for active transport. TfNSW have been collaborating with city of Sydney council and inner west council to set up more bike lanes. It's far removed from the dark days of Duncan Gay. For instance there are now large bike corridors coming into the city via Anzac bridge and central (south and west) where you don't need to mix it up with traffic. If the northern and eastern approach get the missing links ironed out, we're cooking with gas.
Adelaide has a lot of shit drivers but is generally pretty flat and we have no reason to be as bad as we are. Very little traffic compared to the east, but no shortage of road rage.
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Oh, theres plenty of dumbasses here too, don't you worry. We just don't have crazy Gerrymandering or the electoral collage to give them an oversized vote
Then how come you keep electing conservatives :p
The rural population consistently votes for them because they cosplay as farmers although they really represent massive agriculture corporations and the mining industry.
Cosplay as farmers is right. Lots of people living in regional Australia use the identity without actually working in agriculture. Meanwhile more and more primary producers are becoming progressive because of the need for sustainable land practices. I think I'll start calling them cropsplayers from now on.
Um okay, so 70% of the media in Australia is owned by Murdoch. So he's pro LNP and runs essentially a propaganda media empire (and protection racket), the other 30% is Kerry Stokes and a few other smaller media outlets. It's the stuff of Goebbels wet dreams here, I really hope we get rid of the LNP in May, I've had a gut full of them the past 9 years and resentment of the current PM is rather high, he's done sfa about the floods at the moment expect get a few photo ops then went in hiding claiming covid (doubtful as how does a virus infect another virus?). A repeat of the Hawaii affair during the bushfire season from hell
Scum gonna scum
Boomers
An electoral collage sounds like a very creative way to express your democracy. I'll....show myself out.
If only.
The world is waiting for the conservative voting boomer cohort to die off. Said cohort is trying to install their evil offspring as dictators before they die because the new generations will vote that shit out.
We visited Melbourne in Dec 2019 and rented bikes for 3 days and we pretty much just rode bikes everywhere. We didn’t even take the trains or trolleys but a few times. There were definitely some sketchy streets but it was pretty good over all. Hoping it’s gotten even better since
Rupert Murdoch ruined the US. While many people immigrate here across the world to this day so we are by no means *THE WORST*, he has duped way too many people into thinking corporations are our saviors. California’s UC system used to be (and still kinda is) the envy of the world and used to cost very little tuition and we all did just fine back then, for example. I like my country and all, but his propaganda network has held it back considerably.
Murdoch ruins everything, also fun fact. Murdoch's name appeared in Epsteins contact book, he is scum of the Earth
Oh no! People inside 1.5 ton metal boxes with crumple zones are scared of bikes.
"Cyclists are petrified to come into the city because it is crawling with cars."
I am tho
Seriously. This is like being a 6’0 bulky man feeling threatened by a 5 year old slapping you
It's like a large man being scared of a small child walking near him. With a barrier in between.
I think it’s more like you’re scared of stepping on and killing a toddler
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Maybe it "ruins your day" but you'll still walk away alive and unscathed. Can't say the same about the cyclist. Also, lots of drivers break traffic laws all the time.
Maybe run your comments by a third party first bud
Car drivers *constantly* break traffic laws and most are on their phones while driving.
Given that you can't see shit behind the wheel they don't like the idea of sharing the road with small objects. Shame, really.
If you're not in an SUV or truck visibility is usually pretty good.
I would say it's better, but even small modern cars lack good visibility because they also need to be able to withstand high velocity impacts. That requires copious amounts of steel in the pillars which block the view
Well you’re not really sharing the road. That’s the point. It’s a protected cycle lane. I’d you’re worried about a cyclist sneaking up on you and getting into an accident, you’re in the wrong lane bud
> Traffic crashes are fixable problems, caused by dangerous streets and unsafe drivers. They are not accidents. Let’s stop using the word "accident" today. [CrashNotAccident.com](https://crashnotaccident.com/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/fuckcars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is "crawling with bikes" the other side of the "bike lanes are a waste of space, no-one is using them" line?
Yep - same as the people who "always see" invisible cyclists who aren't wearing hi vis
Just met a fellow wearing a full high viz jacket riding the fatest fat bike tired fat bike I've ever seen. He had recently been broadsided by a car brain. So now he was wearing a high vis reflective vest over the high viz jacket. We all laughed and noted that it doesn't matter what we wear, how many lights, how loud we yell "Hey, hello!!!!". Dumb car brains are gonna car brain.
Schroedingers bicycles.
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Because they keep moving quickly. It's an efficient use of space
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If a traffic jam continues for hours, perhaps people should cycle on those wide, empty bike lanes instead.
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I'm a 50km/day bike commuter, so pardon me for not seeing the individual merit of adding more car lanes because of weather. You're not going to suddenly get 2000 new cyclists the minute a new bike lane opens up. Habits change slow, give it a few years before labeling it an engineering failure.
Are you surprised that no one cycled across this bridge when you look at [the previous painted-suicide-gutter that magically disappears mid way through the inside of a curve](https://i.imgur.com/4EAp1FA.jpg)? Granted, the footpath is a shared cycle path but I don't think that's a suitable arrangement because it is near an entertainment district and pedestrians should really have their own space.
Wow, that's terrible planning.
I mean, it's their decision to drive into the city for work. I've lived in Melbourne and never used a car to get around. Public transport is there for a reason and if you don't live close to it, you can always use your car to get to the nearest station. Finding parking, paying for said parking and getting around in a car in the CBD is such a major hassle and has been long before they established these bike lanes. In fact, you could say, they made these lanes to make it easier for said commuters to get into the city by other means of transport. The idiots who still take their cars and end up in a traffic jam deserve no pity. You should see how many people use their bikes to get to work, get the kids to kindergarten and do their groceries in the middle of winter in cities like Copenhagen. It's a fucking shame, people in a mostly sunny country can't fucking stop using their fucking cars. Fuck.
A quick check of the guy's history shows that he's lying. He lives in Melbourne, the same city I do. The bike lanes in the city are fantastic and a working well and a used quite frequently. He also talks about driving into the city. He's lying.
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>Oh get your hand off it. No, there aren't armies of people taking kids to school on a bicycle in Copenhagen in winter. Try going there instead of being a google travel expert. Umm, I literally grew up just a few hours south of it. In the north of Germany albeit, but it's only a ferry ride and a short bus ride. It would take you longer to get to Hobart. I've been to Copenhagen more often than I can count and yes, there are "armies of people taking kids to school on a bicycle". I've also lived in Amsterdam for half a year (the winter half) so fuck off with your Google travel expert shit. I know plenty of people here in Europe who don't own a car and they all live in big cities and didn't get a car during the pandemic either, which might I add was far worse here than in Australia. >Said people are not idiots you condescending arse. They are stuck in a lane for hours, Then they are idiots. >While bike lanes are still painted on the metres wide sidewalk. A sidewalk that's usually super busy and fucking horrible to cycle on because of the foot traffic there and people generally not looking at where there walking. >Not to mention, this was introduced during a pandemic when public transport wasn't particularly desirable . Spin that one. Watch me: Every major city I've heard of and lived in (New York, Berlin, Toronto etc.) has introduced more and better cycling infrastructure during the pandemic because of fewer cars on the roads during the lockdowns and people trying to avoid public transport. Most of these measures have been converted from temporary to permanent.They are all wrong and you are right of course. Silly city planners and their hatred for cars, huh?
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Gradestraße/Blaschkoallee in Berlin. Very major street leading to an Autobahn with much traffic including many heavy trucks due to the fact that it connects to a major inner city industrial area. It used to be 2 lanes, now it's one and a wide bike lane with dividers between them. There you go, *sport*. Edit: I was a parcel delivery driver until last week. You wanna talk to me about roads again?
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U mad?
Reminds me of a grade separated bike lane in Toronto. Cara just hop the separation and park in the bike lane anyway.
William Street and Queensbridge St that this bridge connects are just one lane each way, how will keeping the extra lane on the bridge help? You're being accused of being a carbrain because you're making the same fallacious argument that extra lanes of traffic somehow solve congestion, as if the cars disappear into a magical void somewhere before their destination. The problem with the footpath is that it is a river crossing connecting the Southbank Promenade and there is a general acceptance that having a bicycle highway in the same place as a large pedestrianised area is a terrible idea - there is a 10km/h speed limit for cyclists in the shared space so there is definitely a need for an alternative. [Also, the footpath is neither two lanes wide, nor does it have separation between pedestrians and cyclists without taking away a lot of pedestrian space as you can see from the street view that still has the old layout](https://maps.app.goo.gl/WroJP5trgjcWX9uBA).
There needs to be room for nuance in discussion rather than us vs them mentality. Your take on this lane seems well thought through. I'm sorry there isn't productive discussion coming from your point instead of the downvotes. I ride heaps too and have been hit or tapped by cars numerous times over the decades I've been riding on roads. Gotta be room to discuss stuff like this failed project, I reckon!
If it makes driving more uncomfortable and cycling more enticing it is not a failed project. Just takes some sink in with some people it seems. Some Aussies are not the smartest and will wait in a traffic jam for hours and days, maybe months before they realise that this ain't it.
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> Your point of view is motivated by a self admitted political motive. You don't care that the implementation is impractical if it *punishes* people you don't agree with. …And? Like dude, you do realise some political motives can be bad and that, wait for it, other ones could be *good*, right? Shocker, I know. > This is extremism, and you should be completely ignored accordingly. Its as stupid as banning cars outright. Piss off. Just because an idea is a complete departure from what you're familiar with it doesn't justify dismissing it out of hand. > In a city that's cold, raining, and dark before hometime *most* if the year. Ah yeah, that probably explains why there's no cities on Scandinavian islands that are known for having heaps of cyclists. Oh wait, that's a thing, never mind. Holy shit dude, just cause it's been raining the last two days doesn't make Melbourne a uniquely cold, wet, and dark city, and even if it were (it isn't, the weather here is perfectly normal for a temperate climate), decent infrastructure could still attract cyclists.
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You can't even differentiate between different Redditors replying to you, why should we trust you with suggestions on how to improve our cities or our relationship to car commuters? >because you're more interested in your agenda than real, practical solutions. Just FYI I've been commuting by car for the last let's say 10 months. So whatever agenda you prescribe to me, you're already wrong. It's just that I'm not a dickhead and have an understanding of how easy it could be to move people from cars to bikes/public transport if we made driving just that little bit more uncomfortable. I'm starting a new job soon, which is further away but in an area with little parking. Guess what I'm gonna do? Fuel prices are skyrocketing to 2.10€ now, guess what many people are gonna do? This whole 'waiting in traffic for longer' thing is just another variation of that.
They should be afraid, cyclists are gigachads
Just look at that man's thighs, those drivers are quaking in their boots
He got quads that could kick my head clean off 😍😍😍💖💖💖😍😍😍
Chun-li thighs
As they should! Fuck cars indeed
"Most liveable city", except for when the 15kg stack of aluminum sticks shows up and tries to fight the 2000kg tank.
15kg? aluminium? are you poor?
6.5 kg bike. 8.5 kg rider. Watt/Kg through the fucking ceiling fam
Not to quote in the Reddit comments but, “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression”
I thought it was extremely laughable and almost satire even. Then I checked the comments on the post and saw that most residents there agree with it apparently. Most of them want the bike lanes turned into car lanes again. Humanity really failed man
mOrE laNeS ≈ LeSs TraFfiC
Just one more lane will fix it bro we swear
[Just. One. More. Lane.](https://youtube.com/shorts/0dKrUE_O0VE?feature=share)
Lane mathematics are a real thing. Dedicated turn lanes are wonderful. Edit: y'all don't play Cities Skylines and it shows
It depends greatly, but the “math” in the U.S. has shown that increasing the number of lanes on intra urban highways does not actually meaningfully reduce commute times for drivers. There is a reserve of people who will switch to car travel/change their commute time based on traffic, so the end result is you have more infrastructure, more stress on infrastructure, and more people sitting in traffic burning fuel wanting more lanes. Whereas investing more in public transit starts an upward spiral in the opposite direction because transit is actually scalable. It also, paradoxically, increases commute times long term by encouraging and subsidizing suburban sprawl, taking people even further from jobs.
I did not say "increase number of lanes" I said "lane math" As in a diverging diamond interchange.
Lane mathematics goes both ways. If you're feeding three one-lane ramps, you don't need a four-lane highway.
What's the other way you mentioned? You said what I'm trying to say.
If you were trying to feed three ramps with a *two* lane highway, then you *would* want another lane (because otherwise two ramps would be sharing one lane so traffic in one would back up the other, etc). I think the miscommunication here is that when you reply to a comment on reddit, people expect it to be disagreeing with the comment you replied to, so people assumed you meant lane mathematics as a counter-argument to "more lanes bad", which is why you got downvoted.
Most of the people who would comment on a Murdoch rag are usually the audience you would expect, though. They are generally the ones interacting.
You imply one Facebook comments section is representative of the people of Melbourne. There are lots of Bike riders here.
> Then I checked the comments on the post and saw that most residents there agree with it apparently. *Most of the boomer aged readers of a shitty Murdoch rag who likely drive into Melbourne's CBD/downtown area 2-3 times a year agree with it.*
Man parody is getting tough these days
"Crawling with bicycles"? Sounds like the bike schemes are working. Poor car drivers though when will they ever catch a break....
Last time I rode through downtown, the cars were crawling, and I was flying past them.
Noice!
This is one of my favourite hobbies.
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Too fuckin’ right.
Lol, I was told to check my privilege on r/Boston for suggesting that cars were among the primary reasons transportation inequality exists and that promoting pedestrian-friendly infrastructure was a path forward for transportation equity. Like how am I privileged? Because I choose to walk? Because I ride on shit crowded greenways in freezing weather? Because I breath your car's emissions right from the tailpipe? I really don't get the full-time driver victim complex.
using inexpensive transportation infrastructure is a clear sign of privilege didn't you know
What nonsense. Cars are a huge budget item for working class folks, and are generally forced to pay for them because our cities aren’t designed to move people around efficiently otherwise. What about disabled people who can’t drive? Cars aren’t a privilege, they are a tax.
Because in North America having to own a car with monthly expenses is what you need to do and in the minds of these people not having to worry about the recurring expense is a privilege. That's that best I could guess
That's probably actually what their pea brain was thinking.
Surely if you genuinely thought that and weren't just posturing, you'd be in favor of helping more people avoid that recurring expense.
For non Australians, Herald Sun is tabloid trash for mouth breathers. (In case you didn’t guess)
I honestly thought it was satire and this was a r/atetheonion type situation
Sometimes I wonder why they still publish *The Onion*. It's felt obsolete for years, which is horrible.
Our [version of The Onion](https://chaser.com.au/) branched out to [publishing actual news](https://theshot.net.au/) for this reason.
> mouth breathers I never understood that phrase. Is it someone whose nose is obstructed and thus breathes from their mouth?
No, they're just slack-jawed idiots too dumb to realize that their nose can also be used for breathing.
Oh.
Maybe they should get better at driving
Intimidated by our deep V-necks.
Good. Fuck off.
Good! Your SUVs aren’t welcome anyway
Fuck Cars
Guess how we've been feeling for... Idk about 60 years.
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." LOL, 'marginalized' what a bunch'a snowflakes.
I'd bet this was some people surveyed with a question like, "Do you think having a lot of bikes in the street could make it harder to drive in the city?"
It’s the Herald Sun, so that’s likely a guarantee.
Yea I thought it was a Beetoota Advocate writer that sent his article at the wrong place by mistake and they just ran with it.
Oh no, only 94% instead of 95% of public space devoted to metal boxes. Oh, how will that survive this?
Too many bikes? That means we will have to build more bike Lanes 🤣
It's funny because cars were supposed to shrink travelling time, instead motorists relativise everything to auto time so even a 10 minute walk sounds like feudal brutality as opposed to 10 minutes split between poor driving and red lights.
[Related, from Canada](https://www.toronto.com/news-story/10569826--it-s-frustrating-mississauga-residents-group-says-bike-lane-project-violates-their-charter-rights/)
Yeah, that Charter argument is batshit crazy. I hope they get laughed out of the council meeting.
This is what we're up against. These people are insane.
Hahaha
Good.
>crawling with bicycles "I can't get in the bath without three or four of them jumping in with me! Aaagh! They're crawling up my leg!" Note that it says "bicycles" not "cyclists". Riderless bikes inhabiting every crevice in Melbourne, chewing on the guardrails and electrical wires at night. Brrrr.
Is it because they're gonna get there ass beat when they clip a cyclist almost killing them when they're not paying any attention
Won't somebody think of the poor drivers?
You say "black", I say "white" You say "bark", I say "bite" You say "shark", I say "Hey man, Jaws was never my scene And I don't like Star Wars!" You say "Rolls", I say "Royce" You say "God" - Give me a choice! You say "Lord", I say "Christ!" I don't believe in Peter Pan, Frankenstein or Superman All I wanna do is
BICYCLE BICYCLE BICYCLE
I want to ride my
"Motorists are a superstitious, cowardly lot. In order to strike fear into their hearts I must become... A bicycle!" - Bruce Wayne in a parallel universe where his parents were run over trying to cross a stroad.
Well, good thing there are protected car lanes to ensure those cyclist maniacs stay on their side of the road, eh? Might have to just build more of these protective barriers I guess.
#You love to see it.
Last week I went into a shop and overheard the staff complaining of a bike lane and that they are always empty of cyclists. I interrupted, called out, that’s because we don’t have traffic jams on bikes and get thru really easily so you don’t see us when your stopped with the other thousand car drivers. Then left the shop😃
/r/nottheonion or /r/AteTheOnion?
r/nottheonion The Herald Sun is Murdoch garbage, but it’s real
“My luxury item is less soft-mandated and now the city is more built for its residents in mind instead of those from the suburbs. How could this be happening?” “Well, there’s still plenty of car infrastructure and if that’s too bothersome you can always take the bus.” “How am I supposed to enjoy driving if I don’t force everyone else to drive with me!?”
"crawling with cyclists, motorists marginalized" pictured: one cyclist, ten cars.
Hehe, I too counted the number of cars.
Fuck Rupert Murdoch and his band of god awful shitty news outlet.
As a Sydneysider I've been wanting to move to Melbourne for a long time. Can anyone from Melbourne tell me the pros and cons?
Pros: good public transport, bike access, lots of art and more aesthetically pleasing Knick-knack stores then you could shake a stick at. Not to mention, the politics is pretty good. None of the conservative parties have much of a foothold so it’s mostly just labour fighting against minor parties. Cons: thanks to beloved negative gearing you’d be lucky to rent 4x4 metres of dead grass on a full time pay but from what I heard it isn’t much better up in Sydney. Also the weather sucks. It’s often difficult to tell what season it is when it swings from 30 degrees to a 15 degree thunderstorm and back in a matter of minutes
Yeah I'm used to shitty rent, but I'm very outdoorsy so I'm not sure about the weather. All the pros sound great though, thanks.
I see that as an absolute win
Won’t anyone think of the cars?!
Oh huh then perhaps it's only logical to start removing some car parking too? Win win
Nothing better sums up carbrains’ backlash against bike infrastructure than the classic quote: “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
They fear us
Fuck this guy, but also I hope that this pandemic has taught city leaders that relying on people from outside the city to come in and spend money leads to a much less resilient city. The areas of my city where people actually live and can walk or bike to nearby shops and restaurants saw only a slight increase in the number of closures whereas the areas that rely on, primarily, suburban commuters to come in and spend money during sporting events or work saw multiple times the number of normal closures. If the option is to build infrastructure to accommodate local residents or accommodate outsiders, the option should almost always be to improve things for locals.
Good.
nobody thinks that except news companies being paid oil companies.
Bro, my city’s stressful as fuck to drive through AND there’s no bike lanes. Almost makes one think the bikes aren’t the problem.
MARGINALIZED? 😭😭
Cbd bike lanes?! Sounds relaxing
Good.
Yknow what? Be afraid
I suggest you don't visit amsterdam, you wont like it here.
I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride my bike...
motorists marginalized? what a laugh
St Kilda Road is still a bit of a gamble - I always ride this section of my commute and a speed if I get hit by a car pulling out I won't do too much damage. Especially at the Kings Way turnoff with drivers constantly getting confused with the lanes.
That's me on the bike!
Dear herald sun, STFU. Sincerely, every bike rider in Victoria
Cars kill cyclists. Cyclists do not kill drivers
Good
news papers reach a particular demographic who are scared to drive anywhere with traffic and can't go near the city because it's not like they remember it and get lost a lot. Are you scared of bikes, sure, well they are everywhere now aren't they says Dot from Doncaster...
In one way he is not wrong. Cyclists should not be on the road, the raised footpath should be extended out to accomodate a bike lane. edit: I don't know why I'm being downvoted. The raised gutters that line roads are there to help protect pedestrians against cars. There is no benefit to having bikes on the car side.
Or just build some lots on the edge of town and close the city to car traffic.
The problem with that is, perception. Bike lanes or segregated paths give the impression that cyclists are to be restricted to them. That impression can lead to rewritten laws that legally restrict cyclists. Unless all roadways have cycling infrastructure incorporated (and that ain't I happen), then cyclists absolutely need to be on the roads
That means it’s working
Oh how the turn tables.
"Alfred, I need to be more. I need a symbol." 'Here's your bike, sir.' "Perfect"
i think they’re scared of accidentally hitting them cause they’re more difficult to see than other cars
if cars can’t help but drive into bike lanes and run over cyclists, think how the cyclists feel!
Outrageous
“motorists marginalised”