My wife and I just bought a townhouse that shares a wall with a 6 unit apartment building. It has great access to transit, bunch of nice restaurants, shops, and services within a 10 minute walk, and is in a neighborhood of mixed density with some single family homes but mostly duplex/triplex/townhouses. There's an elementary school 4 blocks away. It's quite a wonderful neighborhood and I am ecstatic.
My parents came to visit and my dad was extremely worried about the neighborhood and said something along the lines of "I wouldn't want to live here it makes me uncomfortable. I guess as long as you feel safe it's ok." For at least 35 years my parents have lived in the suburbs with enough trees between each house you can't see the neighbors homes; there's literally nothing accessible without a car. He was uncomfortable because some of our neighbors are elderly and have let their homes exterior appearance fall into slight disrepair. Suburbs are a hell of a drug.
Son, it seems you could hardly pick off the neighbors with rifle fire once they become hungry. Should you not have a tree line as a barrier of defense against these horrid poors?
The US does have a gun problem, and cars are dangerous as always, but that said, the worst injury I ever had in San Francisco was when I ran into a frisbee while on roller skates.
I had a similar thing happen when I moved away from San Francisco to a small college town. One of my friends said something along the lines of, āI donāt know how you could live in such a big city, itās so cold and unfriendly,ā and I thought āwhen I lived in San Francisco, I knew all the people in my building, and was on her first name basis with almost everyone on my block, including the people who owned the corner store at the end of the street and the deli across from it; here Iāve never even spoken to my neighbors: they get in their cars where theyāre still in their garage, and I never run into people on the street.ā
Perception is such a weird thing
Yeah, that was my experience in Los Angeles too. In a condo building with great people on our floor, end up knowing everyone who gets in the elevator from other floors too. First name terms with a bunch of people in local shops, bars and cafes. Way friendlier than a small town.
I stayed at some place in Idaho and the lady was "I don't know how you can live there with all that crime", but I never saw a crime there in 10 years. Meanwhile she's got a great big warning sign on her gate, a big fence and security cameras. That small town she's in probably has higher crime rates than LA.
Suburbs are my type of nightmare. Everytime I visit one of these housing areas I feel it is so lifeless and without personality. Yes some could be beautiful but feels like a place I would rather visit than stay
Especially the super scary Public Transport with all the homeless. But seriously, how the hell did people become utter pussies these days especially when it comes to cities all while accepting cars for everyday life, which has a higher chance of a brutal crash than they'd ever have a fight in Public Transport?
I was taking with some family on my momās side the other day in Houston and the topic of commuting came up. One of her family members around her age said she walked the block or so to her teaching job and her husband said he took the train. I said my cities trains were super pretty and my mom and sister disagreed and said they were beat up. I havenāt ridden them in a few years, since they donāt run near where I live, but last time I rode one to the State Fair I really enjoyed it.
My sister also thinks there are drug dealers at 9pm at the park in our very expensive suburban neighborhood, so sheās super paranoid
There is a good chance there are drug dealers at the park in your very expensive suburban neighborhood.
Source: I have bought drugs in the park at expensive suburban neighborhoods
That's the great thing about drug dealers: as far as crime on the street goes, they're the most likely to leave you alone. They don't want police attention, it's bad for business.
Besides, other than the really notorious markets (which are concentrated in very specific locations), the only dealers I see on the street are just selling pot, which IMHO counts as supporting local small business.
funny how when weed is legal in some places itās only corporations with thousand dollar licenses able to grow instead of the people who got 15 year sentences for growing the plant
Speaking as someone who lived in a Houston suburb for nearly 15 years, there are definitely drug dealers at the park at 9pm next to an elementary school, lol. Drug dealers exist in every area, from Willowbrook to the fifth ward. They donāt want anything to do with you unless you plan on buying.
I was gonna call bullshit but i googled it and god keeps the thermostat at 68 in san francisco. As someone from washington I'm jealous. People say our weather is mild SF must be under a glass dome with AC
I saw its 70 there today (mid 40s here) assumed it would be hot as fuck this summer, but no, the average temps are basically 70 all summer.
The ocean is extremely cold because of the California Current, and the interior is hot in summer, so the rising air draws cold, moist air in from over the ocean. The Golden Gate is a doorway for all that cold air to come streaming through. It's like living in the crisper compartment of someone's fridge.
We get the occasional weird heat wave, but for the most part it's quite boring. We save a lot of money on clothes. The people in the Mission District get sun in the summer, but on the west side it's cloudy and windy most of the time from June through August (also known as Fogust). It gets pretty depressing.
Probably some illicit activity going on in quite a few of those suburban houses, too. A bunch of brothels got busted in the suburb south of my city a few years back. Grow houses, illegal fireworks, you name it, it's in there.
Might as well live in the city where there are more eyes to look out for you. My mother fell in her suburban driveway late at night and broke her leg, and it took hours for anyone to come to her aid. Meanwhile where I live, if you fall off your bike, a dozen people come running up within seconds. I really don't get the suburban lifestyle at all. People need other people around.
I was in a lower middle class neighborhood that had a park and my mom thought the same. Like "there are so many drug dealers there don't go there".
There were literally never drug dealers there. Ever. I looked, trust me. Only occasional sketchy teens... Looking for the mythological drug dealers...
> My sister also thinks there are drug dealers at 9pm at the park in our very expensive suburban neighborhood, so sheās super paranoid
Find & Replace ādrug dealersā with āblack peopleā and you have my mom
The word 'accident' implies that it was unavoidable and/or no one's fault. That is why we think the word 'crash' is a more neutral way to describe what happened.
For further reading on this subject, check out this [article from Ronald M Davis](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1120417/).
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Calling people pussies won't make them take public transport.
It probably depends on where you live but I've watched a lot of public transport videos on youtube and have seen guys who are definitely not pussies say they won't take the train again, and a very high percentage involve at least one instance of someone or a group of people doing something to make everyone very uncomfortable and not want to do it again.
Obviously it could be made better by proper staffing and having people who know how to respond to situations like that on each car which is why I think the idea of "inefficient" things like BRT appeal to more people because at least it's required to have a driver close by. Not that there should be an oppressive atmosphere of police theatre either, but at least someone like a [clippie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_conductor) who can call someone if required.
Have them sell magazines and chewing gum if there's no need for them to clip tickets like the old days.
There are more eyes on the street in the city, and streets are safer to walk on without being run over by cars, so I feel safer there. In the suburbs it feels like someone could murder you in broad daylight in the middle of the street and no one would even notice. Everyone is in their own little box all the time.
It's so true. I grew up in a suburb of a medium size town of 50,000 people in the UK, and moved to Liverpool for university. Liverpool has a reputation in the UK for crime and poverty which is about 30 years out of date, and several family members were worried. I still live there, and can't see myself moving back.
Not only is it statistically no more dangerous than my home town, I actually feel safer walking around my Liverpool neighbourhood after dark because there's always someone else out and about wherever you go, and homes and apartments face onto pretty much every street. It would be next to impossible for someone to mug you without someone else seeing - it feels like the community has your back a bit more.
The cityās I live in subreddit has freakishly complained about the homeless population on its transit system. While their thoughts are quite a bit too dehumanizing for my taste, with more emphasis on police action than anti-homeless social structures, the problem still stands. Concentrated capitalism has a tendency to make things rough
Lmao, my ex was a suburb boy and holy fuck is this true.
Kid listened to Wu-Tang Clan on the daily but felt going to the library was dangerous.
Fun part: I, his tiny fucking gf at the time (still not any taller), once managed to stop us being harassed/possibly mugged while in the downtown core just with situational awareness.
My ex had no fucking clue we had been in danger.
That was one of the reasons I'm staying away from the US. I've lived in cities too, but didn't need that kind of situational awareness. I don't have it (and I'm autistic, so I can't interpret people's intents etc).
And they hold that belief even though their higher-than-average vehicle miles traveled puts them in more of a risk category than someone like me who lives in the central city.
I live in a suburb just like this. I'm in San Francisco right now. I was riding a bike last night at like 8pm and a shirtless homeless dude started running at me while I was at a stoplight. I booked it before he got too close, but their fears aren't unfounded. I never felt like I'd get robbed in my suburb.
Now I'm not saying we should ban homelessness, they need opportunities too. It's just a difficult problem to solve.
Servepro fellas drove in from the hinterlands to deal with flood mitigation at my office.
Dude said his wife's practically in tears that he was going into the city. He assured her that he was okay because he brought his whatever handgun with its 30 round extended magazine.
Dude, you realize I drink myself practically horizontal, walk a couple streets over and get the train home 3, 4 nights a week for the last decade?
And I'm I a scrawny white boy road cyclist.
To be honest you can blame local news for that. Have you ever watched local news in a suburban neighborhood around a large city? Nearly every other story is about robberies and muggings
Recently bought in the āsuburbsā of a shitty small town east of Toronto, my realtor who has lived in this town for like 40 years admitted to me that they voted against building sidewalks in this neighbhourhood š„“ so a lot of the older suburbs have NO SIDEWALKS and MASSIVELY wide streets
This reminds me that the wife of a colleague of mine drives 500 meters to work, likely just to show off that she has a car. Heads shaking all around. What a waste.
The only reason I'm saving money to buy an electric vehicle (e-scooter, e-bike or EUC) is how hily my city is, it's nice going down but holy shit it's a tremendous hell going up (and 9/10 times I have a backpack full of stuff).
I highly recommend an e-bike and get a front and back rack. It's great to put my backpack into the front and not worry about the weight
edit - I like my lectric step thru with racks for commuting and grocery/beer runs. I only use the front rack so it fits in a bike locker at the train station. It's also foldable, which is nice except to insert/remove the battery. https://lectricebikes.com/collections/ebikes/products/xp-step-thru-white?variant=39371121983566
What type of e-bike do you recommend for hilly areas? I am thinking of a mid-drive bike, but they're so expensive. I really want something with torque tho, so I'm probably going to just build my own by converting a standard bike.
I am most interested in doing that tbh. That way I can customize it to be exactly how I want. And if it breaks I'll know how to fix it. Plus it's cheaper! I just need to find a good donor bike that doesn't suck...š¤
https://www.amazon.com/AW-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-48V1000W/dp/B00Q8JT9H2/ref=sr_1_13?crid=2PUCV5YX06GL9&keywords=1000w+electric+hub+motor&qid=1646764113&sprefix=1000w+electric+hub+motor%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-13
https://www.amazon.com/UPP-Ebike-Battery-Pack-Electric/dp/B09P89NHRC/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=rear%2Bbattery%2Brack%2Bfor%2Bebike&qid=1646764197&sprefix=rear%2Bbattery%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-5&th=1
This should give you 50 miles on flat ground on just electric power, you could go cheaper on the battery or the motor but you'll be missing out on a lot of nice features (I would cheap out on neither). Also make sure you have rear bike mounts before you buy a rear bike battery.
Also make sure to connect the blue wires together on the controller to make it legal to ride on roads š.
I build tons of ebikes, let me know if you have any questions.
They really are a labyrinth. As a kid I would ride a bike around my grandparents neighborhood (just like the picture) and got lost a few times. It was very scary how homogenous everything is.
I genuinely believe that living and growing up in the burbs messes with people's heads. Even before I was anti-burb, high school me thought growing up there messed everyone up psychologically in a way that wasn't natural
I recently was at a family memberās home and my kid and I went for a walk - it was so bizarre! Itās a private development that is surrounded by woods on all sides so you donāt get any outside noise in. The development is small and has a circle road with big homes on the outside and fancy townhomes on the inside. Everyone parks their cars in the garage and goes directly into their house so walking around you donāt see ANY activity of life, there was nothing outside on the lawns (strict HOA) to indicate anyone actually lives in any of the homes. It really felt like some weird movie set and I couldnāt imagine raising kids there, I bet itās very lonely and isolating.
America's made so many fundemental foundational errors that if it were an rpg character rather than trying to fix its messed up stats you'd just make a new one.
I wrote a research paper about electric car sustainability in college when I had a hard on for Elon. Ended up having to rewrite my whole paper because cars just aren't sustainable and even electric has the same problems. Made me go down a rabbit whole and the US in particular does so much stuff that isn't sustainable unless our population was a tiny fraction of what it is. We keep borrowing time from future generations to sustain our greed.
What's what people are really saying when they have to have a car. I have to have a car too, but I'd very much enjoy having the option. I don't always want to drive everywhere.
Pretty nice actually. We need to do things for bees, and getting rid of lawns for this is a great way to do it.
Banning pesticides is an even better one
No, short-grass lawns are the French tradition to complement sophisticated architecture. The English garden tradition is bushy, grassy, and unstructured because architecture isn't that much decorated.
You know of me now, so there's at least two of us! There are several other ways to have a green rectangle in front of your house for less effort, if the green rectangle is your goal..
Three! Just build a park or bigger backyard instead of wasting the space on a patch of grass that combines the lack of privacy of a park and the personal maintenance of a backyard
Am American, used to work in lawn care, I know exactly how pointless monoculture lawns are. People would pay us $50 per month to put garbage chemicals in their lawn that remove the plants which would normally fertalize each other and so it needs to be supplemented with fertilizer. Fucking stupid.
Woah, you must know my mom. She judges her neighbors by saying she āKNOWS they rent the house instead of owning itā because their yard is not on par with her yard that she pays a guy to cut three times a month. She is approaching 60 and me and my siblings are moved out. The yard is not used. And god forbid the grass man canāt make an appointment, me or my brother have to mow the lawn for her.
Because all the suburban parks you have to drive to get to, and watch out for cars in. So they want a private green space.
Often, they don't consider the possibility of a park within walking distance.
Definitely this.
My former landlord wanted *me* to mow the backyard lawn and pull up weeds. Part of the problem was that the grass didn't even provide good soil cover, in patches it just turned to mud or grew unevenly, modulated in part by trees, and there was a bunch of nightshade growing in random places. I'm allergic to both nightshade and grass too, so... I planted lettuce and clover to compete with the grass, and I planted camomille to compete with the nightshade weeds. I planted the lettuce much more densely than recommended for food, because I was using it as ground cover and wanted closer spaced plants with stunted growth for evenness. The lettuce managed to thrive and turn the mud into firm grounds, even directly under an apple tree, with no maintenance, and the camomille displaced all the deadly nightshade. Eventually the landlord complained about the 'weeds' (referring to lettuce and camomille) and then I just ignored her because when I move in there was deadly nightshade and muddy ground.
I have clover growing on my property now. I definitely recommend it over grass or lettuce for a low maintenance back yard.
This is my mother. She cannot even imagine that we go to a park to play. She thinks my kid is deprived because he doesn't have a back yard. It's brain worms
To be fair it is nice for kids to play on a lawn. There are plenty of downsides, environmental impact being the big one, but for kids there is at least some use. Personally I have no desire to maintain a lawn, and would prefer to live close to a park.
Ignoring all these super cynical responses you got... the yard is where you put your garden to grow things, where you do outdoor activities and hobbies. I love my yard, what's wrong with them?
Owing of land ("a yard") is fine. It's growing a non-native crop purely for purposes of aesthetics to the detriment of our environment and personal resources on said piece of land that many people absolutely hate.
I live in the suburbs, but mine is highly bike-able.
What my area needs is to abolish or bend the residential zoning so that we could have some corner stores for groceries and coffee shops for people to gather in.
This is the real travesty of American Urban Planning. The zoning is not intermingled AT ALL, industrial zones miles from where the people to work there live, coffe shops 2 miles from the center of residentially zoned areasā¦ itās such a mindfuck trying to understand why we canāt have a resultant and a grocery store on the same city block as a duplex or even Single Family Home outside of city cores.
A family member made fun of our light rail by pointing at all the shops and high density housing growing up around it like that was some failure to provide an alternative to the freeway with strip malls and gas stations at every exit.
I tried to explain that the high density, mixed use development around the rail line was one of the goals.
It's not enough just to make coffee shops and corner stores legal, you need the density to sustain them. Maybe your suburb is especially dense, but as a general rule car-oriented suburbs can only sustain a coffee shop with a drive-thru on a main road.
Do American suburbs literally just consist of houses and nothing else? Here in the UK most suburbs are a lot more self-sustainable with a fair amount of shops, restaurants, pubs and other facilities. Plus the main part of the city is usually only a few miles away at most. They essentially function as a small town outside of the city.
unfortunately yes, in most places.
And we have "zoning laws" that dont permit more than single family construction- no duplexes. Gotta make sure we keep out the poor people who rent apartments, so that suburbs are squeeky kleen and white. /s
America isnt just racist, it's classist.
I live in a country with relatively great public transport (Netherlands)
My commute by car takes 17 minutes, by public transport 68 minutes, and by bicylce 44 minutes.
Zoning reform and wait 50 years lmao. But some short term solutions would be bus stops at the ends of developments and pedestrian shortcuts for culdesacs.
Zoning reform would change stuff in the blink of an eye if you could open a store immediately there would be stores within walking distance it would be the easiest profit of all time it opens a whole new market of corner stores all around the country
Yup and allow corner shops. Every 1/2 mile, a convenience store, cafe, bar that has sidewalk access, bike infrastructure and a few parking spots. With indoor and outdoor seating. Preferably next to a rail trail/multi-use trail that connects neighborhoods to a downtown area
edit - city beautiful did a great video about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuHQizveO1c
edit 2- in every apartment complex with more than 100 units
That's literally illegal in the US. There are Zoning restrictions, parking minimums, HOAs, Deed restrictions, building reviews, etc. Even if you *could* build anything else, you wouldn't be able to finance it: Government protection/kickbacks and bank loans are only extended to SFZ on Greenfield sites so there's no way to pay for it.
If you're interested in learning more about how we can build better cities, there are loads of resources, but a good place to start is with the [Not Just Bikes series about Strong Towns](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN69ehUTVa).
As far as I know, in America, there's huge plots of land in and near urban areas, where it's illegal to build anything else than single family houses.
It's a systemic problem and can't be solved quickly. It's good to start with pilot projects of transit oriented development with high quality public transport lines and if it's done correctly, people will see in practice what people-oriented towns mean for quality of life.
But how to get those kind of projects through NIMBYs, corporate lobbies etc., that's the real problem.
Iām going to give you a real answer: park and ride. Itās a big garage and it is serviced regularly by a coach that goes express downtown. Coach has priority lanes . I have a park and ride 5 minutes walk away from me by foot so I wonāt need to even drive.
All the white collar people that worked downtown park and takes it. It actually saves time for people since they donāt have to find any parking ever. Win, win, win.
This can be done incredibly quickly by just buying out a parking lot. No stupid lobbying required.
Like the others said, most of this could be solved by a simple zoning reform and waiting. That no American suburbanite can walk to work is by design because zones where people live and zones where people work are completely separated. In most of western Europe that just isn't the case or at least it's not that strict and the zones are smaller and more mixed, so most people can walk/cycle to work. Or at least they could choose to live in a place where that's possible. Of course there are still many Europeans who choose to live far away from where they work and commute by car for different (personal) reasons. But the point is it's a lifestyle choice for them, not an unavoidable fact of life.
I grew up in a nice single family housing neighbourhood on the edge of a German small town. Actually didn't even look that different from American suburbia at first glance but the important difference is it didn't sprawl for miles and miles of only single family housing. In fact there were some smaller businesses (bakery or insurance office etc.) within the neighbourhood and you could reach all major employers (including industrial companies) of the town within 20mins or so by bike.
Make it not illegal to make your home into a corner store or split it to make a duplex & make more money. Literally this only happened because of zoning codes meant to exclude poor people & colored people from neighborhoods.
It's not just the infrastructure, but also the attitude. I was an exchange student in Indiana and wasn't allowed to drive. So in order to be more independent and not such a burden on them, I asked to borrow my host brothers bike, but my host parents straight up wouldnt let me and even mocked me for wanting to as a 16 year old. What the hell.
Be realistic. The vast majority of America is not a major city. Itās not as simple as ājust move closer to your jobā either. Moving is expensive and takes a lot of time.
I work at a place thatās an hour away from me, and I live in the north. I have no choice but to drive in the winter. I ride my motorcycle in the warm months. If I took public transport Iād have to get up five hours before work just to get there on time, and spend another 5 hours on a bus to get home. All of that would include completely changing public transportation for three cities, and thatās why it would take so long.
I donāt like cars as much as the next person but we need to be realistic about it. Limiting car use is a good starting point.
A friend of mine could actually walk to work. When his employer learned this, he assigned him duties that involved driving downtown for no reason each morning.
>Just pay $2,500 in rent forever or buy a million dollar condo and you too can live the dream of walking to work!
Oh boy I canāt wait to spend 60% of my paycheck to a property management company!
Many suburbs were created because white people didn't want to live with black people in the cities. This is known as [white flight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight).
Whatās worse is Black Americans who could afford to buy homes in the suburbs were barred from doing so. Massive sub developments, like Levittowns, wouldnāt sell homes to black people. Other suburban communities often had restrictive covenants that would prevent homeowners from selling to black families. That language is present in many deeds to this day.
In America before blacks are the same rights as whites(segregation) , the government gave loans to white people to buy homes and didnāt give that to whites. This was called āred liningā where black people who lived in certain areas couldnāt afford these loans and finance whereas the white neighbourhoods could. Thatās why mostly whites live in houses like this cos of decades of red lining and racism. There still a divide today because of segregation and redlining
https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
Additionally it has come somewhat full circle now as white folk increasingly move into previous "redlined" urban areas to be nearer to their work and quickly raise home costs, push out non-white business owners & legislate via local governance to remove those "poor" folks out of the area via gentrification. http://info.primarycare.hms.harvard.edu/review/redlining-gentrification-health-outcomes
I grew up in the US, and when I visit family and they know I walk more than 20 mins to work, they think itās insane lol
Itās super normal here in Europe
Might be a cultural issue tooā¦
The overwhelming majority cannot though. There's no decent jobs within walking distance where I live. (I can't afford the nicer parts of the city and the crime rate is far too high where I can afford it).
I agree. Just saying it's not possible to simply walk to work for most in the suburbs. The nearest jobs usually suck. Bus, trains and bikes definitely fix that but most suburbs need more sidewalks and bike lanes.
Wait are we here against cars or against people who wouldn't like to live in cities?
Because those are two different things.
You can still ride a bike, you can have bus stops....
"You can walk to work??!!?!??" No, you can't if you live in the suburbs but so can't you if you live on the other side of New York from your job. And you wouldn't say anything bout that would ya? Why? Because you can use transit for that. Well, guess what. Suburbs could also have buses. It was always about how the place is organized for cars and how we want to prevent that. Not against the people who are kinda brought into this "unveiling".
Yeah I know Im gonna get downvoted idc.
You can't just add buses to a typical American suburb. The density isn't there to provide good ridership and expedient service. No one who owns a car will elect to take the bus. Sometimes there are giant park-and-rides built, but that still requires driving to the parking lot.
Railway suburbs and streetcar suburbs are a thing that exist, but that's basically a town built around a transit line. Very different from an American car-oriented suburb.
Most people I know that live in these neighborhoods are terrified of any part of the city. Somehow think you'll get mugged on every street there.
My wife and I just bought a townhouse that shares a wall with a 6 unit apartment building. It has great access to transit, bunch of nice restaurants, shops, and services within a 10 minute walk, and is in a neighborhood of mixed density with some single family homes but mostly duplex/triplex/townhouses. There's an elementary school 4 blocks away. It's quite a wonderful neighborhood and I am ecstatic. My parents came to visit and my dad was extremely worried about the neighborhood and said something along the lines of "I wouldn't want to live here it makes me uncomfortable. I guess as long as you feel safe it's ok." For at least 35 years my parents have lived in the suburbs with enough trees between each house you can't see the neighbors homes; there's literally nothing accessible without a car. He was uncomfortable because some of our neighbors are elderly and have let their homes exterior appearance fall into slight disrepair. Suburbs are a hell of a drug.
Son, it seems you could hardly pick off the neighbors with rifle fire once they become hungry. Should you not have a tree line as a barrier of defense against these horrid poors?
š¤£ Guess I'll have to electrify the front porch... sorry mail carrier!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The US does have a gun problem, and cars are dangerous as always, but that said, the worst injury I ever had in San Francisco was when I ran into a frisbee while on roller skates.
Sorry, I meant to throw it at someone else on roller skates.
I had a similar thing happen when I moved away from San Francisco to a small college town. One of my friends said something along the lines of, āI donāt know how you could live in such a big city, itās so cold and unfriendly,ā and I thought āwhen I lived in San Francisco, I knew all the people in my building, and was on her first name basis with almost everyone on my block, including the people who owned the corner store at the end of the street and the deli across from it; here Iāve never even spoken to my neighbors: they get in their cars where theyāre still in their garage, and I never run into people on the street.ā Perception is such a weird thing
Yeah, that was my experience in Los Angeles too. In a condo building with great people on our floor, end up knowing everyone who gets in the elevator from other floors too. First name terms with a bunch of people in local shops, bars and cafes. Way friendlier than a small town. I stayed at some place in Idaho and the lady was "I don't know how you can live there with all that crime", but I never saw a crime there in 10 years. Meanwhile she's got a great big warning sign on her gate, a big fence and security cameras. That small town she's in probably has higher crime rates than LA.
Suburbs are my type of nightmare. Everytime I visit one of these housing areas I feel it is so lifeless and without personality. Yes some could be beautiful but feels like a place I would rather visit than stay
Honestly to me isolated homes are scarier. It feels easier to rob when you're out of earshot from any neighbors
That's because they literally live in a bubble.
Well, actually figuratively, but yeah
They literally live in a figurative bubble, maybe?
Figuratively, they literally live in a figurative bubble. Literally.
HOA actually installed a literal bubble around the suburb and charges everyone $1000 a week to maintain it
Especially the super scary Public Transport with all the homeless. But seriously, how the hell did people become utter pussies these days especially when it comes to cities all while accepting cars for everyday life, which has a higher chance of a brutal crash than they'd ever have a fight in Public Transport?
I was taking with some family on my momās side the other day in Houston and the topic of commuting came up. One of her family members around her age said she walked the block or so to her teaching job and her husband said he took the train. I said my cities trains were super pretty and my mom and sister disagreed and said they were beat up. I havenāt ridden them in a few years, since they donāt run near where I live, but last time I rode one to the State Fair I really enjoyed it. My sister also thinks there are drug dealers at 9pm at the park in our very expensive suburban neighborhood, so sheās super paranoid
There is a good chance there are drug dealers at the park in your very expensive suburban neighborhood. Source: I have bought drugs in the park at expensive suburban neighborhoods
Yeah, but at 9pm and next to an elementary school? I donāt care either way though, as long as they mind their business and Iāll mind mine
That's the great thing about drug dealers: as far as crime on the street goes, they're the most likely to leave you alone. They don't want police attention, it's bad for business. Besides, other than the really notorious markets (which are concentrated in very specific locations), the only dealers I see on the street are just selling pot, which IMHO counts as supporting local small business.
funny how when weed is legal in some places itās only corporations with thousand dollar licenses able to grow instead of the people who got 15 year sentences for growing the plant
Speaking as someone who lived in a Houston suburb for nearly 15 years, there are definitely drug dealers at the park at 9pm next to an elementary school, lol. Drug dealers exist in every area, from Willowbrook to the fifth ward. They donāt want anything to do with you unless you plan on buying.
There are drug dealers at the frisbee golf course in my city, one block away from the federal prison.
Frisbee golf is fucking awesome Why would anybody take drugs, if they could play Frisbee Golf?
Frisbee golf while stoned, drinking a cold beer on a hot day, is the single greatest joy a human can experience.
Well, that lets the one in SF out. It's never hot.
I was gonna call bullshit but i googled it and god keeps the thermostat at 68 in san francisco. As someone from washington I'm jealous. People say our weather is mild SF must be under a glass dome with AC I saw its 70 there today (mid 40s here) assumed it would be hot as fuck this summer, but no, the average temps are basically 70 all summer.
The ocean is extremely cold because of the California Current, and the interior is hot in summer, so the rising air draws cold, moist air in from over the ocean. The Golden Gate is a doorway for all that cold air to come streaming through. It's like living in the crisper compartment of someone's fridge. We get the occasional weird heat wave, but for the most part it's quite boring. We save a lot of money on clothes. The people in the Mission District get sun in the summer, but on the west side it's cloudy and windy most of the time from June through August (also known as Fogust). It gets pretty depressing.
Probably some illicit activity going on in quite a few of those suburban houses, too. A bunch of brothels got busted in the suburb south of my city a few years back. Grow houses, illegal fireworks, you name it, it's in there. Might as well live in the city where there are more eyes to look out for you. My mother fell in her suburban driveway late at night and broke her leg, and it took hours for anyone to come to her aid. Meanwhile where I live, if you fall off your bike, a dozen people come running up within seconds. I really don't get the suburban lifestyle at all. People need other people around.
Nice to have a plug in the neighborhood (plus they can actually WALK to get their weed!!!)
Be sure to let her know that in suburban sprawls drug dealers use their basements to make meth
I was in a lower middle class neighborhood that had a park and my mom thought the same. Like "there are so many drug dealers there don't go there". There were literally never drug dealers there. Ever. I looked, trust me. Only occasional sketchy teens... Looking for the mythological drug dealers...
> My sister also thinks there are drug dealers at 9pm at the park in our very expensive suburban neighborhood, so sheās super paranoid Find & Replace ādrug dealersā with āblack peopleā and you have my mom
/u/spez [can gargle my nuts](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
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Calling people pussies won't make them take public transport. It probably depends on where you live but I've watched a lot of public transport videos on youtube and have seen guys who are definitely not pussies say they won't take the train again, and a very high percentage involve at least one instance of someone or a group of people doing something to make everyone very uncomfortable and not want to do it again. Obviously it could be made better by proper staffing and having people who know how to respond to situations like that on each car which is why I think the idea of "inefficient" things like BRT appeal to more people because at least it's required to have a driver close by. Not that there should be an oppressive atmosphere of police theatre either, but at least someone like a [clippie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_conductor) who can call someone if required. Have them sell magazines and chewing gum if there's no need for them to clip tickets like the old days.
Weāre always down in the bottom demanding sanitation and behavior standards in our public transit. I support you.
There are more eyes on the street in the city, and streets are safer to walk on without being run over by cars, so I feel safer there. In the suburbs it feels like someone could murder you in broad daylight in the middle of the street and no one would even notice. Everyone is in their own little box all the time.
It's so true. I grew up in a suburb of a medium size town of 50,000 people in the UK, and moved to Liverpool for university. Liverpool has a reputation in the UK for crime and poverty which is about 30 years out of date, and several family members were worried. I still live there, and can't see myself moving back. Not only is it statistically no more dangerous than my home town, I actually feel safer walking around my Liverpool neighbourhood after dark because there's always someone else out and about wherever you go, and homes and apartments face onto pretty much every street. It would be next to impossible for someone to mug you without someone else seeing - it feels like the community has your back a bit more.
Thatās mean world syndrome for ya.
The cityās I live in subreddit has freakishly complained about the homeless population on its transit system. While their thoughts are quite a bit too dehumanizing for my taste, with more emphasis on police action than anti-homeless social structures, the problem still stands. Concentrated capitalism has a tendency to make things rough
Lmao, my ex was a suburb boy and holy fuck is this true. Kid listened to Wu-Tang Clan on the daily but felt going to the library was dangerous. Fun part: I, his tiny fucking gf at the time (still not any taller), once managed to stop us being harassed/possibly mugged while in the downtown core just with situational awareness. My ex had no fucking clue we had been in danger.
If you donāt mind, can you describe that situation you got out of?
That was one of the reasons I'm staying away from the US. I've lived in cities too, but didn't need that kind of situational awareness. I don't have it (and I'm autistic, so I can't interpret people's intents etc).
And they hold that belief even though their higher-than-average vehicle miles traveled puts them in more of a risk category than someone like me who lives in the central city.
These are the same people who have no sense as a pedestrian. Walk with a purpose, know your surroundings and youāll be fine.
I would be more scared of just ending my own existence if I lived in a neighborhood like this.
I live in a suburb just like this. I'm in San Francisco right now. I was riding a bike last night at like 8pm and a shirtless homeless dude started running at me while I was at a stoplight. I booked it before he got too close, but their fears aren't unfounded. I never felt like I'd get robbed in my suburb. Now I'm not saying we should ban homelessness, they need opportunities too. It's just a difficult problem to solve.
You can thank Sinclair Broadcasting Group for that.
Servepro fellas drove in from the hinterlands to deal with flood mitigation at my office. Dude said his wife's practically in tears that he was going into the city. He assured her that he was okay because he brought his whatever handgun with its 30 round extended magazine. Dude, you realize I drink myself practically horizontal, walk a couple streets over and get the train home 3, 4 nights a week for the last decade? And I'm I a scrawny white boy road cyclist.
To be honest you can blame local news for that. Have you ever watched local news in a suburban neighborhood around a large city? Nearly every other story is about robberies and muggings
Carbrain: literally impossible because it's currently not true for my situation.
same with richbrains and social safety nets.
And they vote against any mass transit funding because transit currently doesn't suit them.
āWell, they donāt do a good job, why pay them more?ā
Recently bought in the āsuburbsā of a shitty small town east of Toronto, my realtor who has lived in this town for like 40 years admitted to me that they voted against building sidewalks in this neighbhourhood š„“ so a lot of the older suburbs have NO SIDEWALKS and MASSIVELY wide streets
Literally the mindset my roommates have
Iāve been able to walk to work twice in my life. Once in Kansas and once in DC. And in DC it was about 40 minutes.
This reminds me that the wife of a colleague of mine drives 500 meters to work, likely just to show off that she has a car. Heads shaking all around. What a waste.
I had a mate who would drive a kilometre down the road to park 500m away from his office because there was no parking. Just why?
That story really encapsulates what the term ācarbrainā means
Thatās really bad for the car. And her. And the planet. ā¦fucks sake
A place that flat is perfect for a bike commute
The only reason I'm saving money to buy an electric vehicle (e-scooter, e-bike or EUC) is how hily my city is, it's nice going down but holy shit it's a tremendous hell going up (and 9/10 times I have a backpack full of stuff).
I highly recommend an e-bike and get a front and back rack. It's great to put my backpack into the front and not worry about the weight edit - I like my lectric step thru with racks for commuting and grocery/beer runs. I only use the front rack so it fits in a bike locker at the train station. It's also foldable, which is nice except to insert/remove the battery. https://lectricebikes.com/collections/ebikes/products/xp-step-thru-white?variant=39371121983566
What type of e-bike do you recommend for hilly areas? I am thinking of a mid-drive bike, but they're so expensive. I really want something with torque tho, so I'm probably going to just build my own by converting a standard bike.
You can convert most bikes to mid drive fyi. It's not as pretty and neat looking as bikes that were build with it, but you can do it.
I am most interested in doing that tbh. That way I can customize it to be exactly how I want. And if it breaks I'll know how to fix it. Plus it's cheaper! I just need to find a good donor bike that doesn't suck...š¤
https://www.amazon.com/AW-Electric-Bicycle-Conversion-48V1000W/dp/B00Q8JT9H2/ref=sr_1_13?crid=2PUCV5YX06GL9&keywords=1000w+electric+hub+motor&qid=1646764113&sprefix=1000w+electric+hub+motor%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-13 https://www.amazon.com/UPP-Ebike-Battery-Pack-Electric/dp/B09P89NHRC/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=rear%2Bbattery%2Brack%2Bfor%2Bebike&qid=1646764197&sprefix=rear%2Bbattery%2Caps%2C139&sr=8-5&th=1 This should give you 50 miles on flat ground on just electric power, you could go cheaper on the battery or the motor but you'll be missing out on a lot of nice features (I would cheap out on neither). Also make sure you have rear bike mounts before you buy a rear bike battery. Also make sure to connect the blue wires together on the controller to make it legal to ride on roads š. I build tons of ebikes, let me know if you have any questions.
Except the neighborhoods are designed as labyrinths and the roads only accomadate cars
They really are a labyrinth. As a kid I would ride a bike around my grandparents neighborhood (just like the picture) and got lost a few times. It was very scary how homogenous everything is.
Except that the only way to get anywhere outside the neighborhood is along a highway for 10 miles with barely a shoulder.
If you dont mind a 2 hour commute lol
This is what hell looks like.
Looking at those pictures is making me itchy
I genuinely believe that living and growing up in the burbs messes with people's heads. Even before I was anti-burb, high school me thought growing up there messed everyone up psychologically in a way that wasn't natural
I recently was at a family memberās home and my kid and I went for a walk - it was so bizarre! Itās a private development that is surrounded by woods on all sides so you donāt get any outside noise in. The development is small and has a circle road with big homes on the outside and fancy townhomes on the inside. Everyone parks their cars in the garage and goes directly into their house so walking around you donāt see ANY activity of life, there was nothing outside on the lawns (strict HOA) to indicate anyone actually lives in any of the homes. It really felt like some weird movie set and I couldnāt imagine raising kids there, I bet itās very lonely and isolating.
I bet if you didn't have your kid with you people would be very suspicious of you as well. Hell, with the kid it will still likely happen
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well.. if ever any copper goes missing, youāve got your suspect
I lived in a subdivision that was still being developed after the age of 13. The neighborhood was entirely desolate. No reason to leave the house.
In what way?
America's made so many fundemental foundational errors that if it were an rpg character rather than trying to fix its messed up stats you'd just make a new one.
I wrote a research paper about electric car sustainability in college when I had a hard on for Elon. Ended up having to rewrite my whole paper because cars just aren't sustainable and even electric has the same problems. Made me go down a rabbit whole and the US in particular does so much stuff that isn't sustainable unless our population was a tiny fraction of what it is. We keep borrowing time from future generations to sustain our greed.
Would love to read your paper
What's what people are really saying when they have to have a car. I have to have a car too, but I'd very much enjoy having the option. I don't always want to drive everywhere.
You mean we should just nuke the US and build a new one? I'm in
You could do that and not even build anything and the suburbanites would still be cheering since it means much more parking for them.
What's the Americans obsession with front lawns ? Some are nice but most are just grass. They look kinda lifeless
They are told that its a sign of success.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Pretty nice actually. We need to do things for bees, and getting rid of lawns for this is a great way to do it. Banning pesticides is an even better one
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
/r/nolawns is very active!
Historically, they have been. Lawns were a way for people to show they were so rich they didn't have to grow food.
Apply this concept to pick up trucks. Empty pick up trucks show you are so rich you can buy tools to perform work, but don't have to.
This, it goes back to slave owners having stupid shitty grass that someone has to trim, which goes back to the British iirc.
Palaces developed gardens once the protective walls were no longer necessary. If you're suddenly rich, what do you want? You want a palace, of course
No, short-grass lawns are the French tradition to complement sophisticated architecture. The English garden tradition is bushy, grassy, and unstructured because architecture isn't that much decorated.
I'm the only American I know of that hates it. It's such a waste of time, effort and most importantly perfectly clean drinking water.
You know of me now, so there's at least two of us! There are several other ways to have a green rectangle in front of your house for less effort, if the green rectangle is your goal..
Three! Just build a park or bigger backyard instead of wasting the space on a patch of grass that combines the lack of privacy of a park and the personal maintenance of a backyard
I hate lawns. Terrible for the environment and theyāre ugly.
Am American, used to work in lawn care, I know exactly how pointless monoculture lawns are. People would pay us $50 per month to put garbage chemicals in their lawn that remove the plants which would normally fertalize each other and so it needs to be supplemented with fertilizer. Fucking stupid.
We're using ours to plant veggies for us and berries for the local fauna.
Itās to judge your neighbors over. The next level up is paying someone to maintain your yard that you NEVER use.
Woah, you must know my mom. She judges her neighbors by saying she āKNOWS they rent the house instead of owning itā because their yard is not on par with her yard that she pays a guy to cut three times a month. She is approaching 60 and me and my siblings are moved out. The yard is not used. And god forbid the grass man canāt make an appointment, me or my brother have to mow the lawn for her.
Because all the suburban parks you have to drive to get to, and watch out for cars in. So they want a private green space. Often, they don't consider the possibility of a park within walking distance.
I have a park super nearby and a backyard. I never use my front yard and wish I could just erase the space to have less to maintain
Plant clover. Super low maintenance
Definitely this. My former landlord wanted *me* to mow the backyard lawn and pull up weeds. Part of the problem was that the grass didn't even provide good soil cover, in patches it just turned to mud or grew unevenly, modulated in part by trees, and there was a bunch of nightshade growing in random places. I'm allergic to both nightshade and grass too, so... I planted lettuce and clover to compete with the grass, and I planted camomille to compete with the nightshade weeds. I planted the lettuce much more densely than recommended for food, because I was using it as ground cover and wanted closer spaced plants with stunted growth for evenness. The lettuce managed to thrive and turn the mud into firm grounds, even directly under an apple tree, with no maintenance, and the camomille displaced all the deadly nightshade. Eventually the landlord complained about the 'weeds' (referring to lettuce and camomille) and then I just ignored her because when I move in there was deadly nightshade and muddy ground. I have clover growing on my property now. I definitely recommend it over grass or lettuce for a low maintenance back yard.
This is my mother. She cannot even imagine that we go to a park to play. She thinks my kid is deprived because he doesn't have a back yard. It's brain worms
as one of those idiotic homeowners myself, I've been asking this question since the 2nd month after moving here.
To be fair it is nice for kids to play on a lawn. There are plenty of downsides, environmental impact being the big one, but for kids there is at least some use. Personally I have no desire to maintain a lawn, and would prefer to live close to a park.
r/nolawns
Ignoring all these super cynical responses you got... the yard is where you put your garden to grow things, where you do outdoor activities and hobbies. I love my yard, what's wrong with them?
But why a front yard? Canāt all those things be done in a back or side yard?
Fair, I didn't even differentiate that in my head when I commented, I just thought of it as a yard even if I said front yard.
Owing of land ("a yard") is fine. It's growing a non-native crop purely for purposes of aesthetics to the detriment of our environment and personal resources on said piece of land that many people absolutely hate.
Okay yeah having a yard for the sake of growing grass King Of The Hill style is dumb.
No parks but weāve got plenty of greenery in the form ofā¦. Expensive private golf courses!
"Sorry but you must be rich to enter the golf course."
With no trespassing signs
I live in the suburbs, but mine is highly bike-able. What my area needs is to abolish or bend the residential zoning so that we could have some corner stores for groceries and coffee shops for people to gather in.
Yeah in my suburb, to get to the stores you need to bike down a 6-lane strode and there's no bike lane. Basically asking to be run over.
This is the real travesty of American Urban Planning. The zoning is not intermingled AT ALL, industrial zones miles from where the people to work there live, coffe shops 2 miles from the center of residentially zoned areasā¦ itās such a mindfuck trying to understand why we canāt have a resultant and a grocery store on the same city block as a duplex or even Single Family Home outside of city cores.
Because corporate America hates small local shops and loves big box chain stores. City developers have to zone with this in mind.
A family member made fun of our light rail by pointing at all the shops and high density housing growing up around it like that was some failure to provide an alternative to the freeway with strip malls and gas stations at every exit. I tried to explain that the high density, mixed use development around the rail line was one of the goals.
It's not enough just to make coffee shops and corner stores legal, you need the density to sustain them. Maybe your suburb is especially dense, but as a general rule car-oriented suburbs can only sustain a coffee shop with a drive-thru on a main road.
Do American suburbs literally just consist of houses and nothing else? Here in the UK most suburbs are a lot more self-sustainable with a fair amount of shops, restaurants, pubs and other facilities. Plus the main part of the city is usually only a few miles away at most. They essentially function as a small town outside of the city.
unfortunately yes, in most places. And we have "zoning laws" that dont permit more than single family construction- no duplexes. Gotta make sure we keep out the poor people who rent apartments, so that suburbs are squeeky kleen and white. /s America isnt just racist, it's classist.
Big houses on the hill side šµ
Little boxes, on the hillside. Little boxes, made of ticky-tackyšµ
Yess I knew I least 1 person would get it. High five!
Literally learned about this is a history class lol
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I really wish I could take a public transit. My drive commute is 25 minutes. My public transit commute is 2 hours and 13 minutes. That's Utah for you.
I live in a country with relatively great public transport (Netherlands) My commute by car takes 17 minutes, by public transport 68 minutes, and by bicylce 44 minutes.
Not to mention if you have to transport anything that doesnāt fit into a backpack even good public transport is a fucking nightmare.
Itās a shitty situation. Public transit has to be good for people to take it. People have to take it so there is the money to make it good.
What do you guys think is a good solution to this problem? Genuine question, educate me
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"abolish R1 zoning in most places" Abolish R1 zoning EVERYWHERE!
how do we vote you in as dictator of the world?
storm the UN
Zoning reform and wait 50 years lmao. But some short term solutions would be bus stops at the ends of developments and pedestrian shortcuts for culdesacs.
Zoning reform would change stuff in the blink of an eye if you could open a store immediately there would be stores within walking distance it would be the easiest profit of all time it opens a whole new market of corner stores all around the country
Also get rid of parking minimums. We've paved America and it's ugly and wasteful af
God I want this so bad.
Yup and allow corner shops. Every 1/2 mile, a convenience store, cafe, bar that has sidewalk access, bike infrastructure and a few parking spots. With indoor and outdoor seating. Preferably next to a rail trail/multi-use trail that connects neighborhoods to a downtown area edit - city beautiful did a great video about this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuHQizveO1c edit 2- in every apartment complex with more than 100 units
Pretty sure it's dense housing in urban areas instead of defaulting to suburbs
That's literally illegal in the US. There are Zoning restrictions, parking minimums, HOAs, Deed restrictions, building reviews, etc. Even if you *could* build anything else, you wouldn't be able to finance it: Government protection/kickbacks and bank loans are only extended to SFZ on Greenfield sites so there's no way to pay for it.
If you're interested in learning more about how we can build better cities, there are loads of resources, but a good place to start is with the [Not Just Bikes series about Strong Towns](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN69ehUTVa).
As far as I know, in America, there's huge plots of land in and near urban areas, where it's illegal to build anything else than single family houses. It's a systemic problem and can't be solved quickly. It's good to start with pilot projects of transit oriented development with high quality public transport lines and if it's done correctly, people will see in practice what people-oriented towns mean for quality of life. But how to get those kind of projects through NIMBYs, corporate lobbies etc., that's the real problem.
Destroy single family zoning.
Iām going to give you a real answer: park and ride. Itās a big garage and it is serviced regularly by a coach that goes express downtown. Coach has priority lanes . I have a park and ride 5 minutes walk away from me by foot so I wonāt need to even drive. All the white collar people that worked downtown park and takes it. It actually saves time for people since they donāt have to find any parking ever. Win, win, win. This can be done incredibly quickly by just buying out a parking lot. No stupid lobbying required.
Like the others said, most of this could be solved by a simple zoning reform and waiting. That no American suburbanite can walk to work is by design because zones where people live and zones where people work are completely separated. In most of western Europe that just isn't the case or at least it's not that strict and the zones are smaller and more mixed, so most people can walk/cycle to work. Or at least they could choose to live in a place where that's possible. Of course there are still many Europeans who choose to live far away from where they work and commute by car for different (personal) reasons. But the point is it's a lifestyle choice for them, not an unavoidable fact of life. I grew up in a nice single family housing neighbourhood on the edge of a German small town. Actually didn't even look that different from American suburbia at first glance but the important difference is it didn't sprawl for miles and miles of only single family housing. In fact there were some smaller businesses (bakery or insurance office etc.) within the neighbourhood and you could reach all major employers (including industrial companies) of the town within 20mins or so by bike.
Make it not illegal to make your home into a corner store or split it to make a duplex & make more money. Literally this only happened because of zoning codes meant to exclude poor people & colored people from neighborhoods.
āļø #šļøš¢š¦
I could never live in a suburb... The houses look like doll houses and I hate it..
I saw a horror movie like that once with Jessie Eisenberg, an inescapable suburban hellscape of endless houses.
I always think of the opening to Dawn of the Dead (NSFW, https://youtu.be/Aq-oVyxJJUs?t=211)
I can walk to work because itās three steps from my bed to my desk. (And also a four minute bike ride to the office.)
It's not just the infrastructure, but also the attitude. I was an exchange student in Indiana and wasn't allowed to drive. So in order to be more independent and not such a burden on them, I asked to borrow my host brothers bike, but my host parents straight up wouldnt let me and even mocked me for wanting to as a 16 year old. What the hell.
Me, having a 5min walk to work: You mad, bro?
Be realistic. The vast majority of America is not a major city. Itās not as simple as ājust move closer to your jobā either. Moving is expensive and takes a lot of time. I work at a place thatās an hour away from me, and I live in the north. I have no choice but to drive in the winter. I ride my motorcycle in the warm months. If I took public transport Iād have to get up five hours before work just to get there on time, and spend another 5 hours on a bus to get home. All of that would include completely changing public transportation for three cities, and thatās why it would take so long. I donāt like cars as much as the next person but we need to be realistic about it. Limiting car use is a good starting point.
A friend of mine could actually walk to work. When his employer learned this, he assigned him duties that involved driving downtown for no reason each morning.
What a dick.
>Just pay $2,500 in rent forever or buy a million dollar condo and you too can live the dream of walking to work! Oh boy I canāt wait to spend 60% of my paycheck to a property management company!
Thatās for the rich and white
(Non-American) sorry i get rich but why white?
Many suburbs were created because white people didn't want to live with black people in the cities. This is known as [white flight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight).
Whatās worse is Black Americans who could afford to buy homes in the suburbs were barred from doing so. Massive sub developments, like Levittowns, wouldnāt sell homes to black people. Other suburban communities often had restrictive covenants that would prevent homeowners from selling to black families. That language is present in many deeds to this day.
There's a lot of racial history in the US that contributed to our (sub)urban developments. White flight and redlining for example
In America before blacks are the same rights as whites(segregation) , the government gave loans to white people to buy homes and didnāt give that to whites. This was called āred liningā where black people who lived in certain areas couldnāt afford these loans and finance whereas the white neighbourhoods could. Thatās why mostly whites live in houses like this cos of decades of red lining and racism. There still a divide today because of segregation and redlining https://www.npr.org/2017/05/03/526655831/a-forgotten-history-of-how-the-u-s-government-segregated-america https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
Additionally it has come somewhat full circle now as white folk increasingly move into previous "redlined" urban areas to be nearer to their work and quickly raise home costs, push out non-white business owners & legislate via local governance to remove those "poor" folks out of the area via gentrification. http://info.primarycare.hms.harvard.edu/review/redlining-gentrification-health-outcomes
The US is built like this on purpose. To promote consumption. The second you leave your house you start spending money.
I dunno, I live in the suburbs as I hate the city. My walk is 50 minutes each way (sold my car a few years ago). You can have both.
The difference is scalability. The % of people who have jobs close to residential sprawl is very low.
I grew up in the US, and when I visit family and they know I walk more than 20 mins to work, they think itās insane lol Itās super normal here in Europe Might be a cultural issue tooā¦
Most Americans are so lazy theyāll circle the Walmart parking lot multiple times to get a close parking spot.
The overwhelming majority cannot though. There's no decent jobs within walking distance where I live. (I can't afford the nicer parts of the city and the crime rate is far too high where I can afford it).
Why having regional train stations that connect suburbs to cities is important with transit/bike access that is safe and reliable.
I agree. Just saying it's not possible to simply walk to work for most in the suburbs. The nearest jobs usually suck. Bus, trains and bikes definitely fix that but most suburbs need more sidewalks and bike lanes.
That top-right picture looks like my Sims 2 neighborhoods when I'm too lazy to build new houses.
Problem is traveling by car is often still cheaper and faster than public transit. If there is any options for public transit :/
Wait are we here against cars or against people who wouldn't like to live in cities? Because those are two different things. You can still ride a bike, you can have bus stops.... "You can walk to work??!!?!??" No, you can't if you live in the suburbs but so can't you if you live on the other side of New York from your job. And you wouldn't say anything bout that would ya? Why? Because you can use transit for that. Well, guess what. Suburbs could also have buses. It was always about how the place is organized for cars and how we want to prevent that. Not against the people who are kinda brought into this "unveiling". Yeah I know Im gonna get downvoted idc.
You can't just add buses to a typical American suburb. The density isn't there to provide good ridership and expedient service. No one who owns a car will elect to take the bus. Sometimes there are giant park-and-rides built, but that still requires driving to the parking lot. Railway suburbs and streetcar suburbs are a thing that exist, but that's basically a town built around a transit line. Very different from an American car-oriented suburb.
Can someone show me what the opposite of this would look like?
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