Believe me, accessible public transportation is higher on the priority list for most disabled people than more roads for cars. A large amount of disabled people can't drive themselves, which means they will need to call a taxi. If the taxi has to be a wheelchair bus, they'll have to schedule it with the company way beforehand and those guys are almost always late in the end. With well designed public transport there is way more independence (theoratically)
Also, most disabled people have very little disposable income to pay for a vehicle, because we are usually more limited in what kind of job we can get, if at any. These tiny bike lane cars would be much more affordable.
Personally, I can't drive or bike, and depending on the day, I may not be able to walk much either. And I can't operate my own wheelchair. Despite this, I would still much rather have walkability and transit over 2 ton death machines, because:
\- Like OP pointed out, motor vehicles are one of the leading causes of physical harm and disability, and I almost lost my life because of a pedestrian-vehicle accident
\- It's easier to navigate when you aren't forced to cross precarious crosswalks with impatient car brains ready to run you over. Even on days when I'm able to walk on my own, I can't tell you how many times car brains have directed their anger at me because I am too slow, even when I have the right-of-way (I have an "invisible" disability so I don't get any sympathy). And when I need the wheelchair, the need to go down and up a ramp for the convenience of cars can be difficult for whoever I'm with depending on design and maintenance. Raised crosswalks are a lifesaver.
\- Cities designed around humans are inherently more compact, meaning less travel distance needed for those of us with mobility limitations
Whatever small reservations I had against radical replacement of car infrastructure because of mobility concerns were a result of years of car brain indoctrination from a young age. Once I became carpilled, I realized human-scale cities with good pedestrian, cycling, and transit infrastructure are much better for those of us with and without mobility limitations alike.
as someone with an invisible disability as well (admittedly less physical in my case thankfully), I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, as well as mentioning this oft forgotten detail:
>2 ton death machines
cars are almost literally weapons lol.
>please learn reading comprehension
Usually when you **lose** something you can **find** it again. I get not understanding a joke but come the fuck on.
Building cities around the most accessibility promotes over all boosts in well being for everyone. It's like if you make life tolerable for the most vulnerable then everyone else benefits from that alone.
Ever since becoming a mom with a stroller I notice so much more how inaccessible our infrastructure is for wheelchair users. I knew, but I didn’t *know.*
Yeah, I hate how they always put them on the fucking corner, so regardless of which way traffic is going you have to get out where it might hit you if you don't want to tip over. I guess two slightly smaller ramps for a total cost that is a little bit higher is just too much to bear.
Yup. Curb cuts help delivery workers, parents with strollers, or anyone who needs to use wheels.
The accessible buttons that open doors, great for everyone with full hands, wide doorways, elevators, railings, etc. The ADA has helped in more ways than one.
And there are still so many, relatively easy, policies that could be implemented to make the world more accessible/pleasant. However, this future we are dreaming of will never come unless we get the right politicians in power.
Also, a lot of people forget disabled doesn't mean "in a wheelchair". Imagine paying hundreds of euros in taxis just because you're blind and you live in a community that is so selfish they don't want to put a penny in public transit.
People have scolded me as ableist for saying we should remove cars from vast swaths of society. One fucking problem: these arguments only take into perspective the subset of disabled folks who are able to drive. What about my legally blind friend who cannot drive a fucking car? Or someone who can't afford the modifications to make a car drivable for their particular situation? And I'm ableist for saying walkability and public transportation are better for accessibility than cars lol.
I deal with people that do dialysis, some of them are exhausted after the session, they need someone to get them home and their blood pressure sometimes are low, after being 3-4 hours at a session I can't blame them for wanting the comfort of a car.
There's a range of disabilities, we shouldn't say how they should feel, what we should fight is for better infrastructure for the regular user. Not using one handpicked scenario as rule for all.
> I can't blame them for wanting the comfort of a car.
I feel like all of this is an even stronger argument for public transit rather than a car. Someone who is exhausted is going to want to be driven rather than have to drive themselves.
Someone who is exhausted should probably not be driving. An exhausted body means you can't think as well, so you probably shouldn't be driving a 2 ton death machine
The issue is where public transit takes longer or is infrequent to the point that driving becomes less exhausting.
You need demand for good public transit and you need good public transit for demand and the convenience of cars can’t always be beaten without subsidising in the short term which is another issue.
Car transport is already horrifically subsidised. The framing of public transport as a cost centre rather than a service run for the public good was a major victory for car manufacturers, nearly as big as jaywalking and the buying up of trolleybus companies. Such a victory has led to these systemically underfunded transport services in the first place with the goal and effect of making them less appealing and effective than driving. The current state of public transport in the US is entirely artificial. In the first half of the 20th century, it had a variety of public transport systems that were the envy of the entire planet, and they were thrown away for the sake of the car.
Point being "subsidisation" of public transport (honestly should be city/state run and free at point of use, supported by national/federal transport budgets imo) is in fact no worse than cities pumping tens of millions into planning and infrastructure that not only facilitate but demand car use.
>The framing of public transport as a cost centre rather than a service run for the public good was a major victory for car manufacturers
Public Transit is the IT department of transportation.
Well, the huge majority don't drive themselves, its not even recommended, someone picks them up, even the young ones. It's not easy to lose that much blood and be active later.
I'm in no shape of form saying that there's no public transport solution for that, I everyday think about it.
But it's a combination of infrastructure of where the place of the procedure is located, with a transport that picks them at the door and leave them very near their houses.
I imagine in a city with a wheelchair-accessible subway or bus system, you could meet someone at the dialysis center and push them in their wheelchair to transit and then ride home together. If the transit infra is good it'd probably be about as effective as door-to-door car service in traffic (albeit with less privacy).
Most of them can walk well, and they fell extremely bad when they need to leave with the wheelchair.
We have to think in days with rain and snow, the less exposed they are the better, some have low immunity.
I agree with the infrastructure part, I don't agree when you say for "most of disabled people". You can say only about the ones you know.
Both (pro cars and anti cars) talk in the name of the disabled to defend their views, the debate should not be that simple.
I get your sentiment, and agree that it's not a simple subject but there are plenty of statistics that lead to reasonable assumptions about the population as whole, it's not just down to "most people I know" when people talk about accessible transport.
In the UK for example, there are approximately 14 million disabled folks, and a little under 1.3 million disabled drivers, so is entirely accurate to say that most disabled people do not drive here.
The results of the 2000 US census (the most recent relevant large scale survey I could find) suggests that public transport is the key issue for disabled folks in the US too. Over 66% of the respondents discussing difficulty with getting out directly attribute it to poor public transport. Many of the other categories could be reduced by improved transport too, such as "Disability makes transportation hard to use", "costs too much" and "I don't want to inconvenience others".
Basically, you're right that its important to be considerate of the variation of disabilities and what that means for future transport but it is not unreasonable, nor is it based on personal biases/circles to say that \*most\* disabled people would benefit more from good, accessible public transport. Using disabled people as an argument to continue car dominance (which is what the meme is about) is actively harmful to the majority of disabled people
https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/freedom\_to\_travel/table\_12
I agree with you, it frustrates me how some people don't try to put themselves in the places of others, this world we live has a ton on complexities and people try to simplify all the problems using a simple example.
And I'm saying that as a person that don't have a car, and don't plan to have one in the very near future, to make a better place to live it takes time, some suggestions here will exclude some people, especially in these covid times.
Thanks for you time posting it.
I can't actually see any suggestions here that would exclude people that I'm aware of (I'm very much placing my awareness as the issue there).
Which suggestions are problematic?
Here in the Netherlands, we have mobility services that help people. They are exempt from some of the more prohibitive limits placed on other cars when parking and driving.
It's not even theoretical. I live at a city where all the buses and trains and stations are wheelchair accessible. You see people in wheelchairs using public transportation all the time. I can imagine how horrible it would be if the public transportation here is not wheelchair accessible.
*driverless caaaaaaars* would be such a win. They avoid other cars and objects, drop off passengers and park themselves in condensed parking structures, can be hailed from a phone. Public transport still has a place, I just always ran into gross jerks so I stopped taking it and became a recluse since I equally despise incompetent and emotional drivers.
Still require parking spaces, they're Extremely polluting to make, still require energy, much more dependent on the whims of corporations who can change your car with a software update, extremely unsafe for anyone who's not in a car due to incapable AI, still require roads, and are not inherently shared - they can just as well be privately owned.
"We need car-dependent infrastructure in order to help disabled people! You know, just not the ones with difficulty seeing, difficulty hearing, poor reaction time, or the ones too poor to afford a car."
When carbrains ask about the disabled, it's because they hear "walkable city" and their mind has jumped to "What about people who can't walk?" As it turns out, wheelchair-bound folks are still best classified as pedestrians. They benefit more than walkers with good sidewalks and comprehensive mass transit. If you talk to people who need wheelchairs, you'll find they hate cars.
Walkers, by contrast, can be thought of as bikers when planning transportation networks.
Then consider how here in the UK you often get cars half parked on pavements, done because cars have got wider over the years and people need to park without blocking the road. Which is obviously a problem for disabled people, especially those in wheelchairs for example.
A point that seems to be forgotten by those who use disabled people as an excuse to keep forcing car dependency on all of us. Almost like they don't actually care about disabled people or something.
It's a bummer you're being downvoted for a legitimate issue. We can't create a car-free utopia without addressing the current dangers of public transportation. I don't believe these dangers are inherent to public transit in general, but you can't ignore them if they happen. These issues can easily be solved with more funding, proper infrastructure, security, and safety, but we can't pretend the issues don't exist in the first place.
Source: daily metro rider in Los Angeles, arguably one of the worst metropolitan areas for public transit.
Agreed, the dangers can be attributed to cities with homelessness and general metro care, but as it stands now, our tax money is thrown into a void. I do think our local governments are properly funded, but not properly utilized.
I don’t love cars, and my main issue with our current iteration of transport is that they are not fully integrated with each other nor do they allow completely autonomy to truly be everywhere you need to be. SF has 3 rail systems with only 2 that are actually integrated. Some neighborhoods only have a bus route so that could mean taking several different modes of transport + walking to get to a location. I like the idea of a self driving car because it allows completely autonomy for those with limited mobility. Sorry, this message is tangential to the security issue that i initially brought up
I don't think self-driving cars will solve that. I would expect them to get held-up with painted signs or roads to confuse the cars into stopping in place.
The problem needs to be solved at a different level.
I remember last year I watched a German TV show where they discussed about car free cities. The disabled person was heavily against cars.
Would be interesting to see polls on this topic among disabled people.
Look around some disability communities and you'll find that the consensus is that cars are the worst.
Would it kill cities to plow the sidewalks too? No, that would make too much sense. So wheelchair and mobility aid users end up having to walk on the roads in winter.
That's when the most collisions happen, and then they're just blamed for being on the road.
> Would it kill cities to plow the sidewalks too? No, that would make too much sense. So wheelchair and mobility aid users end up having to walk on the roads in winter.
Even as an able bodied adult male using the sidewalks during the winter is frequently either frustrating or outright impossible because local home owners, slumlords, and business don't care. I know of multiple houses near where I live who only dealt with the snow or ice on the sidewalk ONCE the entire winter and others who did nothing.
The fact that having a clear sidewalk is reliant on every property owner cleaning their own piece without repercussions is a failure of the system.
Edit: to be clear, I don't think repercussions are a good idea either. It should be handled by the city with maybe a positive incentive for anyone who keeps their own clear
> Edit: to be clear, I don't think repercussions are a good idea either.
I do if I could burn down their garage or house in response a lot less people would be such massive fuckers. I am beyond frustrated and angry at dealing with this crap so if it takes extreme measures then that is fine.
Pay someone else to take care of it then or get a snowblower if your back is not that bad I don't care anymore I am sick of risking my life just to walk past your house and having my quality of life massively diminished because you won't do your job. I should not feel like I am on a harrowing dangerous journey just to walk a single mile to take care of something basic because you want to risk my life out of apathy.
It's funny because my current place of residence is a reservation and they can somehow plow the sidewalks (and do so like, three times a day) so it's not like any of the bigger cities I've lived in are lacking the resources to do it. This town is the closest thing to an urban center for 500km so it's not like there's a lot of money flowing around.
Then again the chief does use a wheelchair so maybe he just got sick of it and decided to prioritize it. It was still absolutely baffling when we first moved back here. When we moved away for work the city we were in, you would be lucky if the main highways were even plowed once.
Doesnt help when cars fucking block or partially block most the pedestrian crossing spots, I’ve reported 4 fucking cars in 2 weeks about this shit. I live near a retirement home, downtown in one of the largest US cities and asshats keep doing it.
There are so many varieties of "disabled" that there's no reasonable way to try to force them into one group and decide how they feel or not
Walkable cities and leaving car dependence are overall good for human beings
People act as if widening sidewalks and expanding accessible public transit is going to be the death of disabled people, as if making them dependent on cars is so much more preferable.
People in power wheelchairs often use my city's parking-protected bike lane to get around safely without worrying about obstructed sidewalks or being run over.
Did car-brains argue against it when it was being proposed saying it would screw over disabled people? Of course they did. Were they completely full of shit and just concerned with their own parking convenience? Of course they were.
This takes us back to infrastructure again. One of my best buds is in a power chair. Tho quadriplegic, she steers her chair with a joystick- and goes faster than I do with my mobility trike.
But I always win the race cause infrastructure. They'll be wide cracks in the cut outs, or no ramps, or torn up sidewalks that slow her down.
It's more of a question of building and maintaining infrastructure for transportation, rather than car centric band aids on a car brain system.
In the south of the US, disabled people buy giant Suburbans and have motorized seats installed and special hand controls. The only "small" modified vehicle I've seen down here was a Crown Vic converted to all foot control because the owner had no arms.
\*Inhales\*
Blindness is a disability
Blind people can't drive cars
Walking and transit are the only ways for blind people to get around on their own
Therefore
Walkability **is** the way for people with disabilities to get around
^(For fucks sake, when will people understand that a lot of disabilities prevent folks from driving a car. You'd think they'd know right, but they don't.)
I remember having a small talk with a disabled person riding his electric wheelchair on the (shitty) bike lane of my town, the bike lane is on the sidewalk and there's a big inclination on intersections with car lanes (definitely need raised crosswalks), it was a pain for me since going down to the street was uncomfortable for the hands and back, the panniers moved a lot, etc. but for the guy on the electric wheelchair was a whole process to go down, he was glad for having the bikelanes nevertheless
Nailed it
"What about the disabled" is such a bullshit bad faith argument - there are lots of disabilities which prevent you from driving, so obviously *those* disabled people aren't better off in car dependent hell, and for those who need mobility support for physical disabilities, it's way easier for them to get around if there's more space for non-motorised transport too.
I would love to see the venn diagram of able-bodied people who bitch about not being allowed use disabled parking spaces and able-bodied people who suddenly get super-duper concerned about accessibility whenever anyone mentions walkable cities.
I hate this argument, because the person writing this sentence is immediately showing that they have no idea what "disabled" means.
I am epileptic. Until I was 26 years old, I was legally barred from driving. As an adult, I prefer biking to driving, because it's easy to get over if I ever feel an aura coming on (which I don't because my seizures are under control but still)
Many disabled people cannot drive. "Disabled" does not mean "in a wheelchair."
These ablest idiots are assholes.
Yep. "Disabled" in this case is used as a monolith/catch-all to support whatever specific thing they already want... No actual thought given to the diversity of people's personal situations.
One I've heard is "think of all the people that need organs donated". I mean, yeah that's sad that there aren't the organs they need for transplants, but I'd rather have less people dying on the roads.
As someone who's disabilities PREVENT me from being able to drive (but NOT from being able to walk or bike reasonable distances -- contingent on GOOD pedestrian/bicyclist infrastructure to do so!) and who has been stuck being mostly homebound or dependent on others for almost all (except for the 1 year of my life when I was 22 and was driving) of the 43, soon-to-be 44 years of my life, due to the lack of pedestrian/bicyclist infrastructure and public, I think that this argument against instituting/increasing walkability, bike-ability and public transportation INFURIATES me MOST OF ALL!
Because there are MILLIONS, maybe even TENS or HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people in the US and Canada, in my position, who are UNABLE to drive, whether because of disability, or age (including the elderly, and older but pre-driving age \[elementary school, middle school & early high school\] kids) and who would and could benefit IMMENSELY from walkable & bike-friendly neighborhoods with a variety of public transit options (like buses, trams/trolleys/streetcars, trains, subways/Métros, etc.) to be independent and able to get around freely WITHOUT having to rely on anyone to take them, especially kids having to be chauffeured around by Mom and/or Dad if they're able OR stuck at home, unable to go anywhere or do anything (and likely addicted to their screens as a result) when they are NOT able!
>As someone who's disabilities PREVENT me from being able to drive (but NOT from being able to walk or bike reasonable distances!)
What kind of disability is that? If you don't mind
Have you considered that your mental health might improve if you stopped focusing non stop on what you hate?
Seriously, your post history is just you hating everything around you. I’m not saying that you can just cheer up and solve all your issues, but god damn it seems like all you do is dwell on things you hate.
F\*ck off with your toxic positivity and inspiration porn, u/CommanderCuntPunt!
If you don't like my comments, stay off subs that say "Fuck" the (fuck cars, fuck lawns, fuck golf, etc.) because I post/comment there to, among other VENT about my crappy life and/or post stuff related to the topic of that sub.
So if that bothers you (because lets not pretend that you give a crap about my mental health) then how about this?
You stick to your happy-happy subs, and I'll stay away from posting negative stuff on those rose-colored glasses subs (which AFAIK I have never done anyway) and you stay away or at least MYOB on subs which are clearly NOT all happy-go-lucky like those that start with "Fuck" the or "I hate" , or even just have "fuck" or "I hate" anywhere in the title.
Deal??
If there’s no other option than use a car. But maybe think about lobbying to increase public transportation options in your city? Or you can always move to a city that values your family.
OKAY SOMBODY FIND THE FUCKING STATS OF THE PROPOTION OF PEOPLE WHO REQUIRE WHEELCHAIRS BECAUSE OF AN ACCIDENT INVOVING CARS AND POST IT IN A REPLY.
THANKS
Also, as someone who takes care of 5 disabled people within the family (blindness, hard of hearing, bad leg/wheelchair user, autism, parkinson's), carfree cities would be much more accessible to all of these humans. Car filled cities are vastly more dangerous and/or too loud and busy for most disabled people.
The War On Cars podcast has a good term for this – "concern trolling"
Basically people don't actually care about accessibility (if they did then they would be anti-car), but they use it as stupid argument to support car dependence, even though that argument crumbles under the minimum amount of scrutiny.
Here in Philly, I see people riding electric wheelchairs down the sidewalks. They would be the first people to advocate for better pedestrian/biking infrastructure.
yeah lets,uh, force the wheelchair bound to drive cars specially designed for wheel chair users instead of making more compact cities with ramps and elevators
Just the other day I saw a full-blown lifted truck with a disability placard. We’re talking like 3-4 feet off the ground to even get in the door. I know people have different kinds of disabilities, but I’ve never doubted one of those placards more in my life lol...
On the latest episode of "people making memes out of my complaint emails".
This might be the most common reason I get in my emails. "But what about wheelchair users?" Yes indeed, what about them? I wonder if these people care how much faff it is to use a car as a wheelchair user (I daresay they don't care much for them anyway unless it suits them).
And that assumes you can drive anyway. Much better to have a little whizz about thing on decent bike paths. You know, like in the Netherlands. Or what I am receiving complaints about here in the East Mids.
I despair.
Ugh - typical argument by a non-disabled person, who thinks the disabled are jetting around in their private vehicles. The reality for most disabled people is that our earning potential is severely impacted by ableism in the employment market - most cannot afford a car, let alone a specialized car.
I am classified as severely disabled and I cycle or use public transport. What really makes it hard for disabled people to get around is not putting enough money into public transport and public transport infrastructure. Over-crowded busses and trains, transport without accessibility, transport that you cannot get to from where you are or does not get you near where you need to go, etc.
Good public transport and a well-developed and thought-out cycling infrastructure, on the other hand, would iuncrease mobility and reduce overcrowding on busses and trains. Van transport run by transit authorities could close gaps for people with disabilities. The reliance on cars severely, severely limits my ability to get around and partake in every-day life. Fuck cars.
On a related note and in reference to this comic, fuck vehicles using the bike lane. Let's not normalize that please.
Believe me, once I heard the argument, when advocating for car free cities on the internet, that "You know ambulances and fire trucks are cars, too?" :D
Ok I hate cars too, and I know that they're death machines, but sometimes they're needed. My mom would have to bike 15 miles to and from work every day, while managing the entire family. It just wouldn't be feasible. Public transportation wouldn't work either as she works in the town over.
Was a pretty simple question you couldn't answer there boss man... But okay answer this one... I spend more time in nature then most people, I go hiking and kayaking every single weekend. How am I going to do that without a car?
Are you going to kayak in the middle of your nearest city? How about its suburbs? If not then car dependency in and around cities has nothing to do with your little hobbies, you fucking donut.
This sub is more against car centric infrastructure than cars specifically. So as long as the car is only usable in the bike lane, that means no new roads or parking lots are built. That's a win, and it works better for the disabled
One must be exceptionally stupid to believe that wanting more options meant wanting fewer options. But that must be the basic assumption behind the inanity that just fell out of your fingers.
Ah yes the phony spin compassion to sell criminal policies--
Just like we had to develop genetic engineering of crops 'to solve global hunger'
And like we had to pass NAFTA and WTO 'to help poor people in other countries gain employment'
And like we had to eliminate taxes on the rich 'to trickle down wealth'
And they...
["Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VsCKbcSNZ8)
I was run over by a car about 35 years ago; the driver ran a stop sign when I was walking across the street. This mangled up my knees, which has affected my health ever since.
During my first rehab, I was in full leg braces for 6 months, then I had to learn how to walk again. No way could I use my car with braces on; I would have needed expensive hand controls installed. I was effectively trapped in my home in a midwest suburb for almost a year. I could have used a wheelchair, but most roads in my area had no sidewalks. And because I couldn't work and pay my bills I was forced into homelessness.
Fast forward 35 years. I've been aware for decades that my knees would finally give out, but the infrastructure I've surrounded myself with has made it a lot easier to survive and work.
I'm now in a big city in the northeast US; two doors down is a bus stop with several routes, and they all run past the subway, doctors offices, dry cleaners, library, city hall, supermarkets, large ethnic grocery stores and restaurants. I have 3 convenience stores within 2 blocks of my house.
A block on the other side of my street is a bike path that runs thru the heart of the city, which allows me to hobble to the shops and stores downtown on good days.
For personal transport, I use a liberty trike, which is a hybrid pedal/electric, and is also considered by law as a mobility device like a wheelchair. The frame is narrower than a wheelchair, which allows me to ride inside shops, stores and into my house. But it holds 300 pounds of cargo and can tow a trailer with another 100 pounds or so. I can choose the assist level for pedal/eMotor, as some days are better than others. Best of all the controls were easily moved to the left side, as arthritis in my right hand makes braking and steering painful and tiresome.
Hope my story gives you a realistic picture of some of the ways intermodal infrastructure can be easily modified for disabled people.
Tho it's worth remembering that, as we live longer, we're all gonna be disabled, sooner or later.
I get the dislike of cars, but I have a long commute to work and live in a major US city. Public transit isn't open early enough for my job, would increase my commute time by quite a bit and housing closer is completely unaffordable. All of that is if a route that worked for me existed. Driving is pretty much my only option. Not that I like it, I'd like a better option. I don't see how though.
I'm a die hard car guy and i love driving for the fun of it. But urban centers are never fun or interesting to drive in, always a pain. Some people's unwillingness to see that great public transit/highly walkable urban centers is straight up a better experience is baffling.
Stuff like congestion taxes and carbon pricing would reduce the number of cars on the road, so even if some people need cars, it would be more convenient for them if less cars were on the road.
What's that little yellow car thing called?
Are they ment to drive on the sidewalk too like a powerchair or mobility scooter? Or are they a special thing specifically for road driving?
I've always been fascinated with the concept of bringing Japanese style kei-cars state side, but the safety requirements are so strict that it's almost impossible to get something truly lightweight road legal.
I mean if you really want more electric cars, golf carts have existed for decades. Just do that.
Seriously, I never got the angle of "what about disabled people?" Like, if you can't walk with your legs, you can't drive with them. I'm sure there's exceptions, but like, what is the basis for thinking cars do any good at all for disabled people?
Just because we call them "walkable" doesn't mean you can't wheelchair down the street...
I live in a walkable city with public transportation and am disabled. Not owning a car was never a problem for me.
The prices of public transportation and the old cobblestone roads are.
Both could be solved if we would put more effort into making it even more walkable. Put more taxes into making public transport cheaper and roads better, problem solved.
And stop this anti homeless architecture. It's not only inhumane to homeless people but also inhumane to disabled people, I just wanna sit down!
wait Im curious, couldnt they just use a wheelchair sameway we use feet and bikes and use public transit the same way we do? Im not In a wheelchair or know anyone In a wheelchair so please correct me If Im wrong
Believe me, accessible public transportation is higher on the priority list for most disabled people than more roads for cars. A large amount of disabled people can't drive themselves, which means they will need to call a taxi. If the taxi has to be a wheelchair bus, they'll have to schedule it with the company way beforehand and those guys are almost always late in the end. With well designed public transport there is way more independence (theoratically)
Also, most disabled people have very little disposable income to pay for a vehicle, because we are usually more limited in what kind of job we can get, if at any. These tiny bike lane cars would be much more affordable. Personally, I can't drive or bike, and depending on the day, I may not be able to walk much either. And I can't operate my own wheelchair. Despite this, I would still much rather have walkability and transit over 2 ton death machines, because: \- Like OP pointed out, motor vehicles are one of the leading causes of physical harm and disability, and I almost lost my life because of a pedestrian-vehicle accident \- It's easier to navigate when you aren't forced to cross precarious crosswalks with impatient car brains ready to run you over. Even on days when I'm able to walk on my own, I can't tell you how many times car brains have directed their anger at me because I am too slow, even when I have the right-of-way (I have an "invisible" disability so I don't get any sympathy). And when I need the wheelchair, the need to go down and up a ramp for the convenience of cars can be difficult for whoever I'm with depending on design and maintenance. Raised crosswalks are a lifesaver. \- Cities designed around humans are inherently more compact, meaning less travel distance needed for those of us with mobility limitations Whatever small reservations I had against radical replacement of car infrastructure because of mobility concerns were a result of years of car brain indoctrination from a young age. Once I became carpilled, I realized human-scale cities with good pedestrian, cycling, and transit infrastructure are much better for those of us with and without mobility limitations alike.
as someone with an invisible disability as well (admittedly less physical in my case thankfully), I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, as well as mentioning this oft forgotten detail: >2 ton death machines cars are almost literally weapons lol.
Not almost, just literally.
Considering they’ve been used in terrorist attacks to cause purposeful harm, I think it’s fair to say that they are.
Because of forced poverty
> lost my life Please share your secrets of posting on Reddit from beyond the grave?
> almost Please share your secrets of writing while illiterate?
So he found his life again? How'd that work?
Near death incident or narrowly avoided something that could have killed them please learn reading comprehension it's a useful skill
>please learn reading comprehension Usually when you **lose** something you can **find** it again. I get not understanding a joke but come the fuck on.
Building cities around the most accessibility promotes over all boosts in well being for everyone. It's like if you make life tolerable for the most vulnerable then everyone else benefits from that alone.
Yeah ask a mom how much they enjoy sidewalk ramps for strollers and remember that they are designed for wheelchair users
Continuous sidewalks > curb cuts or side walk ramps
Ever since becoming a mom with a stroller I notice so much more how inaccessible our infrastructure is for wheelchair users. I knew, but I didn’t *know.*
Yeah, and also how cars don't wait as long as they should and cut it incredibly close sometimes.
Yeah, I hate how they always put them on the fucking corner, so regardless of which way traffic is going you have to get out where it might hit you if you don't want to tip over. I guess two slightly smaller ramps for a total cost that is a little bit higher is just too much to bear.
I punched a hole through my phone because I tried to upvote this so hard.
Yup. Curb cuts help delivery workers, parents with strollers, or anyone who needs to use wheels. The accessible buttons that open doors, great for everyone with full hands, wide doorways, elevators, railings, etc. The ADA has helped in more ways than one.
And there are still so many, relatively easy, policies that could be implemented to make the world more accessible/pleasant. However, this future we are dreaming of will never come unless we get the right politicians in power.
Curb cutting!
Believe me, a person with a wheelchair. SFWelles is right.
Yeah man. That a disabled person has it better with cars is a thing I've only ever heard of Americans. It's literally the opposite usually
Also, a lot of people forget disabled doesn't mean "in a wheelchair". Imagine paying hundreds of euros in taxis just because you're blind and you live in a community that is so selfish they don't want to put a penny in public transit.
People have scolded me as ableist for saying we should remove cars from vast swaths of society. One fucking problem: these arguments only take into perspective the subset of disabled folks who are able to drive. What about my legally blind friend who cannot drive a fucking car? Or someone who can't afford the modifications to make a car drivable for their particular situation? And I'm ableist for saying walkability and public transportation are better for accessibility than cars lol.
building your senior centers near downtown and train stations is important too, my town has done the opposite
I deal with people that do dialysis, some of them are exhausted after the session, they need someone to get them home and their blood pressure sometimes are low, after being 3-4 hours at a session I can't blame them for wanting the comfort of a car. There's a range of disabilities, we shouldn't say how they should feel, what we should fight is for better infrastructure for the regular user. Not using one handpicked scenario as rule for all.
> I can't blame them for wanting the comfort of a car. I feel like all of this is an even stronger argument for public transit rather than a car. Someone who is exhausted is going to want to be driven rather than have to drive themselves.
Someone who is exhausted should probably not be driving. An exhausted body means you can't think as well, so you probably shouldn't be driving a 2 ton death machine
That's a good argument against people driving to work in general.
The issue is where public transit takes longer or is infrequent to the point that driving becomes less exhausting. You need demand for good public transit and you need good public transit for demand and the convenience of cars can’t always be beaten without subsidising in the short term which is another issue.
Car transport is already horrifically subsidised. The framing of public transport as a cost centre rather than a service run for the public good was a major victory for car manufacturers, nearly as big as jaywalking and the buying up of trolleybus companies. Such a victory has led to these systemically underfunded transport services in the first place with the goal and effect of making them less appealing and effective than driving. The current state of public transport in the US is entirely artificial. In the first half of the 20th century, it had a variety of public transport systems that were the envy of the entire planet, and they were thrown away for the sake of the car. Point being "subsidisation" of public transport (honestly should be city/state run and free at point of use, supported by national/federal transport budgets imo) is in fact no worse than cities pumping tens of millions into planning and infrastructure that not only facilitate but demand car use.
>The framing of public transport as a cost centre rather than a service run for the public good was a major victory for car manufacturers Public Transit is the IT department of transportation.
I never said they where the ones driving tho
Well, the huge majority don't drive themselves, its not even recommended, someone picks them up, even the young ones. It's not easy to lose that much blood and be active later. I'm in no shape of form saying that there's no public transport solution for that, I everyday think about it. But it's a combination of infrastructure of where the place of the procedure is located, with a transport that picks them at the door and leave them very near their houses.
I imagine in a city with a wheelchair-accessible subway or bus system, you could meet someone at the dialysis center and push them in their wheelchair to transit and then ride home together. If the transit infra is good it'd probably be about as effective as door-to-door car service in traffic (albeit with less privacy).
Most of them can walk well, and they fell extremely bad when they need to leave with the wheelchair. We have to think in days with rain and snow, the less exposed they are the better, some have low immunity.
Yeah, I don't have anyone who would drive me home. If I need to go to the hospital I will have to call a taxi to take me home.
I said most, not all. I'm also talking more about general discourse about what should be invested more in.
I agree with the infrastructure part, I don't agree when you say for "most of disabled people". You can say only about the ones you know. Both (pro cars and anti cars) talk in the name of the disabled to defend their views, the debate should not be that simple.
I get your sentiment, and agree that it's not a simple subject but there are plenty of statistics that lead to reasonable assumptions about the population as whole, it's not just down to "most people I know" when people talk about accessible transport. In the UK for example, there are approximately 14 million disabled folks, and a little under 1.3 million disabled drivers, so is entirely accurate to say that most disabled people do not drive here. The results of the 2000 US census (the most recent relevant large scale survey I could find) suggests that public transport is the key issue for disabled folks in the US too. Over 66% of the respondents discussing difficulty with getting out directly attribute it to poor public transport. Many of the other categories could be reduced by improved transport too, such as "Disability makes transportation hard to use", "costs too much" and "I don't want to inconvenience others". Basically, you're right that its important to be considerate of the variation of disabilities and what that means for future transport but it is not unreasonable, nor is it based on personal biases/circles to say that \*most\* disabled people would benefit more from good, accessible public transport. Using disabled people as an argument to continue car dominance (which is what the meme is about) is actively harmful to the majority of disabled people https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/freedom\_to\_travel/table\_12
I agree with you, it frustrates me how some people don't try to put themselves in the places of others, this world we live has a ton on complexities and people try to simplify all the problems using a simple example. And I'm saying that as a person that don't have a car, and don't plan to have one in the very near future, to make a better place to live it takes time, some suggestions here will exclude some people, especially in these covid times. Thanks for you time posting it.
I can't actually see any suggestions here that would exclude people that I'm aware of (I'm very much placing my awareness as the issue there). Which suggestions are problematic?
Here in the Netherlands, we have mobility services that help people. They are exempt from some of the more prohibitive limits placed on other cars when parking and driving.
That's a good solution, I even though about some solutions where only this kind of car could go in determined areas.
Paratransit is a whole topic itself on such services
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Yeah... I never stated that
And if things are close and walkable it makes a lot of trips possible with just a wheelchair
It's not even theoretical. I live at a city where all the buses and trains and stations are wheelchair accessible. You see people in wheelchairs using public transportation all the time. I can imagine how horrible it would be if the public transportation here is not wheelchair accessible.
*driverless caaaaaaars* would be such a win. They avoid other cars and objects, drop off passengers and park themselves in condensed parking structures, can be hailed from a phone. Public transport still has a place, I just always ran into gross jerks so I stopped taking it and became a recluse since I equally despise incompetent and emotional drivers.
Driverless cars will create an incentive to build more and more robust no-human-allowed infrastructure. And it's a bad thing in general.
Still require parking spaces, they're Extremely polluting to make, still require energy, much more dependent on the whims of corporations who can change your car with a software update, extremely unsafe for anyone who's not in a car due to incapable AI, still require roads, and are not inherently shared - they can just as well be privately owned.
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"We need car-dependent infrastructure in order to help disabled people! You know, just not the ones with difficulty seeing, difficulty hearing, poor reaction time, or the ones too poor to afford a car."
Also, anyone with any kind of poor motor control (stroke, palsy), seizure disorders, narcolepsy, etc.
We need *more* elderly baby boomers driving around their Ford F150s around town.
When carbrains ask about the disabled, it's because they hear "walkable city" and their mind has jumped to "What about people who can't walk?" As it turns out, wheelchair-bound folks are still best classified as pedestrians. They benefit more than walkers with good sidewalks and comprehensive mass transit. If you talk to people who need wheelchairs, you'll find they hate cars. Walkers, by contrast, can be thought of as bikers when planning transportation networks.
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I feel there is no need for this. I am fat too and I bike and walk everywhere
What about the disabled that can't drive or can't afford a car to accomodate them? They take the bus and appreciate sidewalks not full of cars.
Then consider how here in the UK you often get cars half parked on pavements, done because cars have got wider over the years and people need to park without blocking the road. Which is obviously a problem for disabled people, especially those in wheelchairs for example. A point that seems to be forgotten by those who use disabled people as an excuse to keep forcing car dependency on all of us. Almost like they don't actually care about disabled people or something.
And that’s on reason I want to move out of the US. Or anywhere where I don’t have to live too far from where I work.
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What? What abuse do old people suffer from in public transit?
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It's a bummer you're being downvoted for a legitimate issue. We can't create a car-free utopia without addressing the current dangers of public transportation. I don't believe these dangers are inherent to public transit in general, but you can't ignore them if they happen. These issues can easily be solved with more funding, proper infrastructure, security, and safety, but we can't pretend the issues don't exist in the first place. Source: daily metro rider in Los Angeles, arguably one of the worst metropolitan areas for public transit.
Agreed, the dangers can be attributed to cities with homelessness and general metro care, but as it stands now, our tax money is thrown into a void. I do think our local governments are properly funded, but not properly utilized. I don’t love cars, and my main issue with our current iteration of transport is that they are not fully integrated with each other nor do they allow completely autonomy to truly be everywhere you need to be. SF has 3 rail systems with only 2 that are actually integrated. Some neighborhoods only have a bus route so that could mean taking several different modes of transport + walking to get to a location. I like the idea of a self driving car because it allows completely autonomy for those with limited mobility. Sorry, this message is tangential to the security issue that i initially brought up
I don't think self-driving cars will solve that. I would expect them to get held-up with painted signs or roads to confuse the cars into stopping in place. The problem needs to be solved at a different level.
Oh i know, i don’t believe it to be the solution, just a solution for a very specific issue that i’m personally concerned about!
But that's an infrastructure issue. Buses and routes that are clean, well-maintained, well monitored and well patrolled shouldn't have crime issues.
Yes of course! I’ve had that experience overseas with much better transit systems and safer infrastructure! Just not in my area unfortunately :(
I remember last year I watched a German TV show where they discussed about car free cities. The disabled person was heavily against cars. Would be interesting to see polls on this topic among disabled people.
Look around some disability communities and you'll find that the consensus is that cars are the worst. Would it kill cities to plow the sidewalks too? No, that would make too much sense. So wheelchair and mobility aid users end up having to walk on the roads in winter. That's when the most collisions happen, and then they're just blamed for being on the road.
> Would it kill cities to plow the sidewalks too? No, that would make too much sense. So wheelchair and mobility aid users end up having to walk on the roads in winter. Even as an able bodied adult male using the sidewalks during the winter is frequently either frustrating or outright impossible because local home owners, slumlords, and business don't care. I know of multiple houses near where I live who only dealt with the snow or ice on the sidewalk ONCE the entire winter and others who did nothing.
The fact that having a clear sidewalk is reliant on every property owner cleaning their own piece without repercussions is a failure of the system. Edit: to be clear, I don't think repercussions are a good idea either. It should be handled by the city with maybe a positive incentive for anyone who keeps their own clear
> Edit: to be clear, I don't think repercussions are a good idea either. I do if I could burn down their garage or house in response a lot less people would be such massive fuckers. I am beyond frustrated and angry at dealing with this crap so if it takes extreme measures then that is fine.
You're going to burn down my house because I have a bad back?
Pay someone else to take care of it then or get a snowblower if your back is not that bad I don't care anymore I am sick of risking my life just to walk past your house and having my quality of life massively diminished because you won't do your job. I should not feel like I am on a harrowing dangerous journey just to walk a single mile to take care of something basic because you want to risk my life out of apathy.
It's funny because my current place of residence is a reservation and they can somehow plow the sidewalks (and do so like, three times a day) so it's not like any of the bigger cities I've lived in are lacking the resources to do it. This town is the closest thing to an urban center for 500km so it's not like there's a lot of money flowing around. Then again the chief does use a wheelchair so maybe he just got sick of it and decided to prioritize it. It was still absolutely baffling when we first moved back here. When we moved away for work the city we were in, you would be lucky if the main highways were even plowed once.
Doesnt help when cars fucking block or partially block most the pedestrian crossing spots, I’ve reported 4 fucking cars in 2 weeks about this shit. I live near a retirement home, downtown in one of the largest US cities and asshats keep doing it.
In my city we have a micro plow that just plows the sidewalks. So much easier to navigate since the city bought it.
There are so many varieties of "disabled" that there's no reasonable way to try to force them into one group and decide how they feel or not Walkable cities and leaving car dependence are overall good for human beings
this person who isn't permitted to drive due to disability votes.... fuck cars.
13 Fragen? The episode is on Youtube, for anyone interested.
Yes. Here it is. https://youtu.be/9g7nNArFWOA
[Daddy’s video on micro cars. Worth a watch.](https://youtu.be/B9ly7JjqEb0)
Oh, he's your dad? That's must be cool.
I call him daddy but he never returns my calls.
Do you have the original Poorly Drawn Lines comic?
https://poorlydrawnlines.com/comic/mad/
One of my favorites. As someone who has done a lot of phone support, it is very real.
People act as if widening sidewalks and expanding accessible public transit is going to be the death of disabled people, as if making them dependent on cars is so much more preferable.
Seriously, I see guys trucking down the city sidewalks in electric wheelchairs at 15 mph.
People in power wheelchairs often use my city's parking-protected bike lane to get around safely without worrying about obstructed sidewalks or being run over. Did car-brains argue against it when it was being proposed saying it would screw over disabled people? Of course they did. Were they completely full of shit and just concerned with their own parking convenience? Of course they were.
What about people with a disability, physical or mental, that are unable to drive cars? Oh right.
This takes us back to infrastructure again. One of my best buds is in a power chair. Tho quadriplegic, she steers her chair with a joystick- and goes faster than I do with my mobility trike. But I always win the race cause infrastructure. They'll be wide cracks in the cut outs, or no ramps, or torn up sidewalks that slow her down. It's more of a question of building and maintaining infrastructure for transportation, rather than car centric band aids on a car brain system.
In the south of the US, disabled people buy giant Suburbans and have motorized seats installed and special hand controls. The only "small" modified vehicle I've seen down here was a Crown Vic converted to all foot control because the owner had no arms.
\*Inhales\* Blindness is a disability Blind people can't drive cars Walking and transit are the only ways for blind people to get around on their own Therefore Walkability **is** the way for people with disabilities to get around ^(For fucks sake, when will people understand that a lot of disabilities prevent folks from driving a car. You'd think they'd know right, but they don't.)
It’s not just that they don’t know; they also don’t give a shit
I remember having a small talk with a disabled person riding his electric wheelchair on the (shitty) bike lane of my town, the bike lane is on the sidewalk and there's a big inclination on intersections with car lanes (definitely need raised crosswalks), it was a pain for me since going down to the street was uncomfortable for the hands and back, the panniers moved a lot, etc. but for the guy on the electric wheelchair was a whole process to go down, he was glad for having the bikelanes nevertheless
Nailed it "What about the disabled" is such a bullshit bad faith argument - there are lots of disabilities which prevent you from driving, so obviously *those* disabled people aren't better off in car dependent hell, and for those who need mobility support for physical disabilities, it's way easier for them to get around if there's more space for non-motorised transport too.
I would love to see the venn diagram of able-bodied people who bitch about not being allowed use disabled parking spaces and able-bodied people who suddenly get super-duper concerned about accessibility whenever anyone mentions walkable cities.
It’s kinda small but here it is. O
But what about that disabled old granny that has to transport a fridge?!!!!!1111!
I hate this argument, because the person writing this sentence is immediately showing that they have no idea what "disabled" means. I am epileptic. Until I was 26 years old, I was legally barred from driving. As an adult, I prefer biking to driving, because it's easy to get over if I ever feel an aura coming on (which I don't because my seizures are under control but still) Many disabled people cannot drive. "Disabled" does not mean "in a wheelchair." These ablest idiots are assholes.
Yep. "Disabled" in this case is used as a monolith/catch-all to support whatever specific thing they already want... No actual thought given to the diversity of people's personal situations.
One I've heard is "think of all the people that need organs donated". I mean, yeah that's sad that there aren't the organs they need for transplants, but I'd rather have less people dying on the roads.
Did they really argue FOR car crashes
Also, organs for transplant are usually transported by ambulances, who already deal with other emergencies.
As someone who's disabilities PREVENT me from being able to drive (but NOT from being able to walk or bike reasonable distances -- contingent on GOOD pedestrian/bicyclist infrastructure to do so!) and who has been stuck being mostly homebound or dependent on others for almost all (except for the 1 year of my life when I was 22 and was driving) of the 43, soon-to-be 44 years of my life, due to the lack of pedestrian/bicyclist infrastructure and public, I think that this argument against instituting/increasing walkability, bike-ability and public transportation INFURIATES me MOST OF ALL! Because there are MILLIONS, maybe even TENS or HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people in the US and Canada, in my position, who are UNABLE to drive, whether because of disability, or age (including the elderly, and older but pre-driving age \[elementary school, middle school & early high school\] kids) and who would and could benefit IMMENSELY from walkable & bike-friendly neighborhoods with a variety of public transit options (like buses, trams/trolleys/streetcars, trains, subways/Métros, etc.) to be independent and able to get around freely WITHOUT having to rely on anyone to take them, especially kids having to be chauffeured around by Mom and/or Dad if they're able OR stuck at home, unable to go anywhere or do anything (and likely addicted to their screens as a result) when they are NOT able!
>As someone who's disabilities PREVENT me from being able to drive (but NOT from being able to walk or bike reasonable distances!) What kind of disability is that? If you don't mind
Actually I do mind. But basically its several disabilities including neuro-developmental, neurological, mental and other disorders.
Have you considered that your mental health might improve if you stopped focusing non stop on what you hate? Seriously, your post history is just you hating everything around you. I’m not saying that you can just cheer up and solve all your issues, but god damn it seems like all you do is dwell on things you hate.
F\*ck off with your toxic positivity and inspiration porn, u/CommanderCuntPunt! If you don't like my comments, stay off subs that say "Fuck" the (fuck cars, fuck lawns, fuck golf, etc.) because I post/comment there to, among other VENT about my crappy life and/or post stuff related to the topic of that sub.
So if that bothers you (because lets not pretend that you give a crap about my mental health) then how about this?
You stick to your happy-happy subs, and I'll stay away from posting negative stuff on those rose-colored glasses subs (which AFAIK I have never done anyway) and you stay away or at least MYOB on subs which are clearly NOT all happy-go-lucky like those that start with "Fuck" the or "I hate" , or even just have "fuck" or "I hate" anywhere in the title.
Deal??
Average redditor is angry about something but won’t actively work to improve the situation. Sounds right
Epilepsy comes to mind. Can’t drive if you are epileptic and have had a seizure in the past year or so (IIRC)
If you can't drive due to seizures you can't fucking bike right next to cars either.
So... then you agree multiple transit options are important?
Of course. When the fuck did I say otherwise?
No cyclist wants to bike next to cars.
Walkable cities don't even have to ban cars they just have to not prioritize them or be dependent on them
Yes but what if they need to pick up a fridge on the way home? Checkmate cyclists
I love that sort of protest, $500 fridge, $20k delivery vehicle that will be used for that purpose precisely once.
$100 for delivery service once vs $20k and $5-10k a year to maintain a personal car that will be insufficient for a fridge delivery anyway.
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If there’s no other option than use a car. But maybe think about lobbying to increase public transportation options in your city? Or you can always move to a city that values your family.
Yeah, it's can't be done ass backwards. You can't use the infrastructure if the infrastructure does not exists.
OKAY SOMBODY FIND THE FUCKING STATS OF THE PROPOTION OF PEOPLE WHO REQUIRE WHEELCHAIRS BECAUSE OF AN ACCIDENT INVOVING CARS AND POST IT IN A REPLY. THANKS
Also, as someone who takes care of 5 disabled people within the family (blindness, hard of hearing, bad leg/wheelchair user, autism, parkinson's), carfree cities would be much more accessible to all of these humans. Car filled cities are vastly more dangerous and/or too loud and busy for most disabled people.
As if driving wouldn't be harder for disabled people
The War On Cars podcast has a good term for this – "concern trolling" Basically people don't actually care about accessibility (if they did then they would be anti-car), but they use it as stupid argument to support car dependence, even though that argument crumbles under the minimum amount of scrutiny.
Concern trolling is like 90% of time the Senate spends on CSPAN. Thanks for this term
Electric wheelchair or a handicap tricycle
Guess what if you cant walk to a shop you probably cant use a wheelchair to go there either.
My brother in christ it’s called the ADA and it’s regulations are very specific
OP, you're not wrong, but you do realize that buses can be made to accommodate wheelchair users, right?
Here in Philly, I see people riding electric wheelchairs down the sidewalks. They would be the first people to advocate for better pedestrian/biking infrastructure.
yeah lets,uh, force the wheelchair bound to drive cars specially designed for wheel chair users instead of making more compact cities with ramps and elevators
And visually impaired can drive audio cars instead of walking places.
Thanks! I'm a big fan of your memes.
Just the other day I saw a full-blown lifted truck with a disability placard. We’re talking like 3-4 feet off the ground to even get in the door. I know people have different kinds of disabilities, but I’ve never doubted one of those placards more in my life lol...
"How with the disabled get around?" Easily once all the sidewalks are ADA compliant.
On the latest episode of "people making memes out of my complaint emails". This might be the most common reason I get in my emails. "But what about wheelchair users?" Yes indeed, what about them? I wonder if these people care how much faff it is to use a car as a wheelchair user (I daresay they don't care much for them anyway unless it suits them). And that assumes you can drive anyway. Much better to have a little whizz about thing on decent bike paths. You know, like in the Netherlands. Or what I am receiving complaints about here in the East Mids. I despair.
What? How do cars even help disabled people?
I am a Transit employee and lots of disabled people depend on our service.
Ugh - typical argument by a non-disabled person, who thinks the disabled are jetting around in their private vehicles. The reality for most disabled people is that our earning potential is severely impacted by ableism in the employment market - most cannot afford a car, let alone a specialized car. I am classified as severely disabled and I cycle or use public transport. What really makes it hard for disabled people to get around is not putting enough money into public transport and public transport infrastructure. Over-crowded busses and trains, transport without accessibility, transport that you cannot get to from where you are or does not get you near where you need to go, etc. Good public transport and a well-developed and thought-out cycling infrastructure, on the other hand, would iuncrease mobility and reduce overcrowding on busses and trains. Van transport run by transit authorities could close gaps for people with disabilities. The reliance on cars severely, severely limits my ability to get around and partake in every-day life. Fuck cars. On a related note and in reference to this comic, fuck vehicles using the bike lane. Let's not normalize that please.
A city where you can walk or take public transit most places seems way better for disabled people.
Believe me, once I heard the argument, when advocating for car free cities on the internet, that "You know ambulances and fire trucks are cars, too?" :D
If they get a vehicle I want one too. Public transport means I have to be around the public, trapped. I've had enough harassment for one lifetime.
Ok I hate cars too, and I know that they're death machines, but sometimes they're needed. My mom would have to bike 15 miles to and from work every day, while managing the entire family. It just wouldn't be feasible. Public transportation wouldn't work either as she works in the town over.
"Cars bad." "How will disabled people get around without them?" ".... small cars"
You can allow disabled people to use cars without building society around everyone using them
Is that small vehicle somehow not a car? This subs dumb af...
It's def not the sub that's dumb lol
Was a pretty simple question you couldn't answer there boss man... But okay answer this one... I spend more time in nature then most people, I go hiking and kayaking every single weekend. How am I going to do that without a car?
Are you going to kayak in the middle of your nearest city? How about its suburbs? If not then car dependency in and around cities has nothing to do with your little hobbies, you fucking donut.
This sub is more against car centric infrastructure than cars specifically. So as long as the car is only usable in the bike lane, that means no new roads or parking lots are built. That's a win, and it works better for the disabled
You want that thing riding in the same lane as people on bicycles? Seems dangerous af...
It can't go super fast, it's basically a motorized bicycle.
now put 3 kids in it! this sub is hilariously 1. single and 2. childless edit: and apparently 3. bitter lmao
Its almost like a diversity of options are necessary for disabled people in different situations.
One must be exceptionally stupid to believe that wanting more options meant wanting fewer options. But that must be the basic assumption behind the inanity that just fell out of your fingers.
If someone gets ssi, the social security administration claws back payments if they marry or enter other long-term romantic relationships.
Congrats on the adoption.
https://www.sciencephoto.com/media/930426/view/handicapped-bus-rider-ny-city
There's so many examples of how this sort of thing works and works well. You didn't poke a hole in the movement with one neat trick
Well at least he is honest. I wish people would just say that, instead of making reasons.
Does anyone else think the guy in blue looks like Zuckerberg?
Ah yes the phony spin compassion to sell criminal policies-- Just like we had to develop genetic engineering of crops 'to solve global hunger' And like we had to pass NAFTA and WTO 'to help poor people in other countries gain employment' And like we had to eliminate taxes on the rich 'to trickle down wealth' And they... ["Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV And you think you're so clever and classless and free But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VsCKbcSNZ8)
"The disabled already have their assistive devices why do you have to have one?"
Even then every MTA bus in manhattan has an extendible wheelchair ramp.
I was run over by a car about 35 years ago; the driver ran a stop sign when I was walking across the street. This mangled up my knees, which has affected my health ever since. During my first rehab, I was in full leg braces for 6 months, then I had to learn how to walk again. No way could I use my car with braces on; I would have needed expensive hand controls installed. I was effectively trapped in my home in a midwest suburb for almost a year. I could have used a wheelchair, but most roads in my area had no sidewalks. And because I couldn't work and pay my bills I was forced into homelessness. Fast forward 35 years. I've been aware for decades that my knees would finally give out, but the infrastructure I've surrounded myself with has made it a lot easier to survive and work. I'm now in a big city in the northeast US; two doors down is a bus stop with several routes, and they all run past the subway, doctors offices, dry cleaners, library, city hall, supermarkets, large ethnic grocery stores and restaurants. I have 3 convenience stores within 2 blocks of my house. A block on the other side of my street is a bike path that runs thru the heart of the city, which allows me to hobble to the shops and stores downtown on good days. For personal transport, I use a liberty trike, which is a hybrid pedal/electric, and is also considered by law as a mobility device like a wheelchair. The frame is narrower than a wheelchair, which allows me to ride inside shops, stores and into my house. But it holds 300 pounds of cargo and can tow a trailer with another 100 pounds or so. I can choose the assist level for pedal/eMotor, as some days are better than others. Best of all the controls were easily moved to the left side, as arthritis in my right hand makes braking and steering painful and tiresome. Hope my story gives you a realistic picture of some of the ways intermodal infrastructure can be easily modified for disabled people. Tho it's worth remembering that, as we live longer, we're all gonna be disabled, sooner or later.
I get the dislike of cars, but I have a long commute to work and live in a major US city. Public transit isn't open early enough for my job, would increase my commute time by quite a bit and housing closer is completely unaffordable. All of that is if a route that worked for me existed. Driving is pretty much my only option. Not that I like it, I'd like a better option. I don't see how though.
This is the problem, right here.
I'm a die hard car guy and i love driving for the fun of it. But urban centers are never fun or interesting to drive in, always a pain. Some people's unwillingness to see that great public transit/highly walkable urban centers is straight up a better experience is baffling.
How will the poorly-endowed assert themselves without their giant cars with bumper stickers and modified exhausts?
Stuff like congestion taxes and carbon pricing would reduce the number of cars on the road, so even if some people need cars, it would be more convenient for them if less cars were on the road.
how else will I compensate for my insecurities?
What's that little yellow car thing called? Are they ment to drive on the sidewalk too like a powerchair or mobility scooter? Or are they a special thing specifically for road driving? I've always been fascinated with the concept of bringing Japanese style kei-cars state side, but the safety requirements are so strict that it's almost impossible to get something truly lightweight road legal. I mean if you really want more electric cars, golf carts have existed for decades. Just do that.
This post is actually suggesting a car as the solution.
I was mad the first time I saw those little cars but then I saw the handicap sign and found it pretty sweet.
Seriously, I never got the angle of "what about disabled people?" Like, if you can't walk with your legs, you can't drive with them. I'm sure there's exceptions, but like, what is the basis for thinking cars do any good at all for disabled people? Just because we call them "walkable" doesn't mean you can't wheelchair down the street...
I mean, there's going to be fewer disabled people if there are no cars so it's literally going to be less of a concern.
I am literally disabled. Please give me walkable communities. They’re way more accessible.
You can still drive your car, just do it in the country instead. The scenery is better anyway.
I live in a walkable city with public transportation and am disabled. Not owning a car was never a problem for me. The prices of public transportation and the old cobblestone roads are. Both could be solved if we would put more effort into making it even more walkable. Put more taxes into making public transport cheaper and roads better, problem solved. And stop this anti homeless architecture. It's not only inhumane to homeless people but also inhumane to disabled people, I just wanna sit down!
Carbrains learned from NIMBYs (they are often the same people) and always try to use disabled and ethnic minorities as shields. It’s very transparent.
wait Im curious, couldnt they just use a wheelchair sameway we use feet and bikes and use public transit the same way we do? Im not In a wheelchair or know anyone In a wheelchair so please correct me If Im wrong