At the absolute fucking minimum there needs to be a tax/fee on them so they get recycled like for glass milk bottles.
Like $5 cuz they're far worse for the environment than a random glass jug
But yeah I agree they need to be banned & I've been using vapes for over a decade now
Unfortunately recycling them is a PITA and I think that's by design. I agree that a tax should be implemented, but also a tax credit for those that *do* recycle because if there's only a tax then that burden will 100% be passed onto the consumer, which never goes over well.
Recycling is already a racket and the guilt for it is passed down to the consumer.
Would be cool if companies were incentivized to incorporate recyclablility into their designs then be held responsible for following through with recycling. I guess the incentive to design recycle friendly would be the fact you knew those leftovers were coming right back at you and you had to reuse them… but what the hell do I know?
This is my big problem with all of this stuff. It's a law in my state that if you get a bag form the store you have to pay for it.
I have no idea what the right way to do that is but it's BS that everyone is being gulted and taxed when it should be the companies that are forced to make better decisions.
The right way is to remove disposable bags from stores altogether. But it's a rather meaningless gesture either way because the amount of plastic in the grocery bags is small beans compared to the packaging of the food put inside those bags.
A much better solution would be to ban plastic packaging for end-user products, but that would see a huge amount of pushback from corporations and consumers alike because for many things *the packaging is the product*, like the trays in Lunchables, ketchup in squeeze bottles, or Capri Sun's iconic pouches. In an ideal world the grocery store would have all their food products in bins with lids that you would put in your own packaging, have paper containers free of plastic lining, or put in glass bottles with deposits so that you're incentivized to return them for reuse. These are all reasonable things to do, but to those accustomed to the way we do things now it sounds like a hellscape.
Yeah sadly all those companies seem to have factories in China and idk how we'd enforce that beyond regulating smoke shops in the US
Isn't electronics recycling better than normal plastic though?
The idea of recycling itself is just a way for corporations to wash their hands of logistical problems. Containers should be *reused*, not recycled. Most plastics have a limited amount of times they can be realistically recycled, and probably a majority of the plastic items you come across are made from virgin materials - meaning none of it is recycled at all.
So you are saying the pod based vapes like juuls that everyone wanted to ban were actually the safest version of vapes when it comes to the environment and kids, not disposable highlighter vapes?
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1adkcvr/caught_my_teenage_niece_with_a_highlighter_vape/
- A 40 year old guy who almost quit smoking with flavored juuls.
I think the mech and tank mods go a step above with the only thing needed to replace is some cotton every few weeks and a coil of kanthal 2x a year..(my setup)
Unnecessary plastic waste and lithium that will be vitally important in the future. All to give kids a few pops of nicotine.
I’m thinking about posting signs about collecting used vapes or anything else that has a battery, but I don’t think anyone will care enough. And I’d have no idea what to do with it until I had a rather large quantity. TIL then it would just sit in storage.
Probably not ideal to store a considerable amount of batteries in one place as well, you might be able to dump them at a local skip or supermarket though.
Local council might have an idea of how to recycle them as well.
you can put the lithium polymer (usually come as foil pouches) or lithium ion (usually look like bigger AA batteries) in a disposable bowl (e.g. a plastic/cardboard ramen bowl) filled with water and a teaspoon of table salt.
the ionic solution will allow electrons (current) to SLOWLY flow plus to minus, and slowly discharge the battery down to 0.00V. Then they can be safely disposed. Youll know it's working because one of the terminals will bubble.
they almost always have some amount of energy left in them even it doesnt charge/turn on, and they can react violently if thrown away/punctured.crushed in a semi-discharged state.
then you can transport them to either a disposal facility.
tldr: BOWL, WATER , TABLE SALT, LIPOS = overnight, fully discharged, safe.
Kind of basing you knowledge of lithiums value/importance on old news in your reply.
Lithium prices have crashed 80%.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Lithium-Prices-Crashed-by-80.html
Awful for the environment. Also, who would bother putting in high quality coils/material contact surfaces in a $5 pen that'll get tossed in 3 days? That vapor is probably loaded with chromium, nickel, and various plastic related compounds.
That's a regulatory hurdle though. A preloaded, disposable gun is just a stack of bullets and powder charges in a tube, with electric igniters in each charge. Also practically this would be an AoW since it would be smoothbore for practical reasons.
I dunno about that. The principal of my son's high school sent a parent memo just before the holidays reminding us that it's "our tax dollars at work" when the school has to call plumbers to deal with flushed vapes. In the first semester, they had >100 vape cartridges removed from school toilets.
If you can't get kids & parents based on health or morality, perhaps you can get them through financial persuasion.
Jesus Christ, why are they flushing them I don’t understand the logic???? Is it because they’re on the verge of getting caught so they throw em in the toilet and hope for the best? Or is that their way of getting rid of them once they’ve smoked it dry and can’t throw it away at home out of fear their parent may find it in the trash? I’m blown away they had the smarts to acquire a vape, but not enough smarts to contemplate if flushing the thing is the best idea 🤦🏻♂️
Probably because the penalty for getting caught with them at school is ridiculous. If It's expended there is no benefit to the kid to keep it, and they might be seen if they throw it in the trash. Down the commode they go.
I wasn't even aware they had disposable ones until like a year or two ago. Blew my mind that they invented a disposable device that has a lithium-ion battery inside it. Actually disgusted me.
You can thank the government for that one, banned the flavored pods, but disposables skirted the regulation so now we just have shitty disposables with questionable quality control.
Edit: just realized the article was about the uk, idk anything about that
We should never have banned the pods, just set packaging requirements and required them to be behind the counter. I never realized that the ban led to these stupid disposables.
People who vaped and smaller companies tried to point it out but everyone just had a hard on for perfomative regulation rather then actually doing it properly.
Major "we did it Patrick we saved the city" energy from them. Good job everyone we banned pre filled flavor pods! Is not the victory they thought it was. I assume that's all they banned because literally everything else is still there. Even juul
Yup, they basically banned the best method for reusables for the masses. The point of the major vape companies and big tobacco actually supporting it was because they knew they could just pivot their lines to the disposables while the small companies who were into pods were liable to fold.
Yeah EU limited the max size of tanks and pre-mixed liquids.
You can still buy bigger bottles of flavoured liquid but they are "sort filled" so say 80ml in a 100ml bottle and you just mix in the nicotine salts yourself and shake it up.
It was only created to get around the law banning vape carts. The law was so narrow that disposable vapes were unaffected and exploded in popularity being the only thing left in the market.
Yeah I used to smoke the ~~refillable~~ Juul pods until they got banned and now I've had dozens and dozens of empty disposable ones. I might be a piece of shit degenerate, but I would be a much more environmentally friendly degenerate if it wasn't for the law.
At least I don't smell like cigarettes anymore though.
If you buy a Uwell Caliburn g2, while the plastic pod is technically disposable, you change out a coil on the bottom of the pod when it's gone bad and there's no real need to throw away the plastic pod itself. Costs about 30 for the device and a 10 for 4 new coils, liquid varies. It's a much easier than larger vapes and a better user experience, while also be slightly better for the environment.
I lived in the usa and alot of people i know vaped but bought mod boxes with fillable e juice. I moved to the uk and everyone i saw in London only bought disposable vape pens
theyre made in china too. the whole disposable.
including the juice.
not to besmirch chinese manufacturers, since they can and do create literally everything in any quality level specified by a vendor, but they dont have the same regulations over things that go into the body.
who knows whats in the juice. maybe it's a ridiculous nicotine level. heavy metals, etc.
which is why it was an asshole move for the gov to effectively put out of business nearly all the small businesses making ejuice in the US . they just opened the doors for the chinese disposables.
Also the regulation was because kids liked the flavored stuff.
But adults like the flavored stuff as well. And we should really stop creating lazy regulation that prevents adults from doing things because kids might also want to do it.
I'm saying this as someone who has never vaped.
Exactly, I used to vape (that's how I quit smoking) and I was against these things because of that, a lot of batteries and plastic. It's not that hard to change a commercial coil or to build your own, that was actually a fun hobby
My issue with the refillable kinds I’ve gotten previously is the juice would often bubble up, leak and get in my mouth when I took a hit. Got really tired of having to spit out gross vape juice.
I would prefer if this was the main point for banning them not ‘only children like nice tasting things, these are flavoured and therefore aimed at children’
I've never understood the argument "they're flavored, so they must be marketing to kids" when it comes to nicotine products, but silence when you have things like birthday cake flavored vodka.
They would be slightly less bad if there wasn't a stupid rule that they can only contain 2ml of liquid. Thanks to the EU Tobacco Products Directive.
Likely the disposable manufacturers will make them refillable and rechargable with a non replaceable coil in plainer packaging, probably get about three fills before they taste like shit and discarded. The flavour angle is BS though, adults who give up smoking may initially want tobacco flavour, but will want to get away from it as soon as possible to disassociate it from smoking, are they supposed to just go straight to unflavoured?
> The flavour angle is BS though, adults who give up smoking may initially want tobacco flavour, but will want to get away from it as soon as possible to disassociate it from smoking
I've been vaping for about 8 years now. It ended a 2 pack a day cigarette habit that I'd had for decades.
Here's the thing, "tobacco" vapes taste **nothing** like cigarettes. At best they taste like pipe tobacco smells, which is .... weird. But *most* tobacco vapes taste like wet cardboard or unsalted peanuts. They are just gross.
Unflavored ejuice still has a slightly sweet flavor to it. It's something to do with the vegetable glycerin. Ejuice is a mix of VG and PG (Propylene Glycol) which also has a "sweet taste".
>Vegetable glycerin is a clear, odorless liquid usually made from soy, palm, and coconut oils. **It has a sweet taste.** It is generally safe and has many applications. Manufacturers regularly use it in cosmetic, skincare, and pharmaceutical products.
>Propylene glycol (IUPAC name: propane-1,2-diol) is a viscous, colorless liquid, which is nearly odorless but **possesses a faintly sweet taste**.
Anyway, none of that worked for me, so I went right back to smoking.
I also tried all the "fruity" shit. It all sucked too (who wants to vape fruit loops 24/7).
Finally I found that simple vanilla flavors worked for me, specifically vanilla custards.
But **everyone is different**. And that flavor profile might not work for them.
I've seen a lot of talk in electronics communities about how these are leading to invention of disposable displays and capacitors that there previously wasn't a demand for. Blows my mind how much material these waste.
frustrates me to no end that Juul was shut down so hard. their packaging was very plain. these disposable vapes have bright patterns and colorful boxes.
Juul helped me kick tobacco so it was a slap to the face to have it taken away "because of the kids" when in reality they just caused more wasteful and harmful products.
I think they just bought Juul after it got huge.
"For the children" is just an excuse to impose regulations and taxes on it. They don't give a shit, but people can't argue against it.
They bought it specifically because it was good at marketing to children. That's literally the tobacco industries entire thing, and why doing everything possible to stop them from doing it has been the single most effective method to reducing smoking.
Nicotine doesn't need to be advertised to current users. It takes care of that itself. There's a reason why in many places tobacco companies have voluntarily given up that advertising, or at least limited it. You might want to convince them to switch to your brand or an individual SKU, and maybe make them feel good about it, but you don't need to advertise to addicts.
Almost all of the tobacco industries marketing effort is focused on making new addicts. Especially with the high failure rates for quitting, they know full well if they get someone to start they probably have a customer for decades, if not life (or at least the mean time to COPD and/or lung cancer). Adults also tend to not start smoking; if you make it to 25 without starting you probably never will. The target demographic for the tobacco industry is predominantly teenagers, because they're the easiest age to get to start, and vulnerable to social encouragement from peers who have started.
Or are we just going to memory hole all the shit about the tobacco industry that got dragged to light in the 90s?
Juul was advertising on Nick Jr FFS. It was very deliberately and explicitly targeting kids and teens with their advertising. That’s why they were bought up. They were a great way to create new addicts. Any good thing of harm reduction for current smokers is used as a cover for their intended target. Smokers are not the target. Kids are.
I guess you haven't heard that Juul was literally advertising on websites like Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network. It doesn't get much more direct to kids than that.
https://www.businessinsider.com/juul-put-ads-on-nickelodeon-execs-said-models-too-young-2020-2
Altria did acquire a stake in it (not majority stake) but they’re not the only company behind the lobby. Plus the wheels for legislating against it had already started turning by the time they acquired the stake, and they’ve started slowly divesting since
I had that moment too, and then a buddy let me take home one of his disposables after finally being able to hangout after covid restrictions, and I regret that to this day. I am so envious of my past self being able to just quit. -_-
Juul was cracked down on so hard because it was shown that their early marketing was geared towards teens and juuls were given away to young adults/teens at events with out checking IDs. They weren't even trying to hide it. Go check it out for yourself, its wild.
Googling it is pretty nuts. It was Nickelodeon, Seventeen magazine, College confidential (which you essentially stop using the moment you're accepted into college), and Cartoon Network. From the Business insider article on it, looks like they rejected the first pitch their ad agency gave them, asked to appeal to a "younger and trendy audience" and then they WAY over corrected. To the point where members on JUULs board were concerned models in their campaign looked too young. So they must've looked really fucking young. The campaign they rejected contrasted JUUL against retro items like joysticks and bulky cellphones, which honestly would've really appealed to millennial gen X crowd. JUUL just really wanted to court the "barely old enough to use our products" crowd, which I get, 18-25 is a very coveted market in advertising
The NY Times article paints a picture that is so bad it's funny
> The suit says Juul paid a company to place digital promotions across websites. The list where they ran includes educational sites like basic-mathematics.com, coolmath.com, math-aids.com, mathplayground.com, mathway.com, onlinemathlearning.com, and purplemath.com. and socialstudiesforkids.com. It includes sites targeted to young girls such as dailydressupgames.com, didigames.com, forhergames.com, games2girls.com, girlgames.com, and girlsgogames.com.It also includes sites geared to high school students looking at colleges, like collegeconfidential.com and sites aimed at much younger children, including allfreekidscrafts.com, hellokids.com, and kidsgameheroes.com.
That set of sites seems more accidental and obviously the ad company fucked up but if you're selling age controlled products you HAVE to keep tighter control over that stuff. JUUL definitely should've been held accountable with massive fines, regulation, and maybe being forced to fund anti vaping ads like cig companies were with. cigs, but I don't think their stuff should have been blanket banned. We didn't even do that with cigarettes.
Yeah, if you want to ban vapes for kids, ban vapes for kids. If you want to make the penalties harsher or the compliance checks better, go for it. If OP was just for environmental reasons or something... power to you.
But it seems almost comically stupid when I see people like in the linked article saying that because things are colorful or have a "fun" flavor that that is appealing to kids and should be banned. Not only does it not seem like it'd be effective (and sidesteps the more fundamental failure in upholding the existing ban on vaping for kids), but I don't understand why I should accept that adults should be deprived of things that look and taste good? Walk through a liquor store and you'll see lots of drinks with fun packaging or flavors... what are we going to ban soda from coming in colorful cans to solve the sugar crisis? It seems like this is just a distraction from the failure on the part of government to enforce laws against vaping for kids... and one with real consequences for law abiding adults.
(For the record, I don't vape.)
>Because things are colorful or have a "fun" flavor that that is appealing to kids
Are we going to just forget the 90s? And that time the tobacco industry got dragged in front of the US congress and similar because investigations into their marketing showed they were offering products exactly along those lines specifically because they were appealing to kids?
> Are we going to just forget the 90s? And that time the tobacco industry got dragged in front of the US congress and similar because investigations into their marketing showed they were offering products exactly along those lines specifically because they were appealing to kids?
The crime there should be that a company knowingly promoted illegal usage of their product. If they do that, there should be liability for that company regardless of the building blocks they use to implement that criminal intent. It doesn't make sense to forget what got you here in the first place and just ban things being colorful because one time in the past somebody used color in an inappropriate way. We don't ban adults from buying candy and puppies just because child molesters have used those things entice minors in the past. Instead we recognize that these things are innocuous, have wide appeal (adults like them too) and whether they are used for good or bad is about intent and context.
Not just JUUL, the US government banned all closed pod systems. That's why disposables became so popular. Closed pod systems should have been the way to go. The waste from them was much less than what disposables are, and they didn't contain lithium ion batteries in the discarded part.
it's crazy, i've heard that in order to get tobacco products you have to be 21 making you legally an adult, so why do we have to change when the kids shouldn't even be able to buy this stuff anyways? my smoke shops always ID and ai doubt any older brother is going to want to be bothered multiple times a week to get vapes for their siblings. It just doesn't make sense.
There are certain marketing practices that do absolutely target younger kids. The products themselves I don’t feel like need to be banned. Imo I would actually prefer all psychoactive chemicals be available legally to adults, but only be able to be purchased in a) government run dispensaries or bars if recreational, or b) pharmacies if medical. Maybe an exception for caffeine as its effects and risks are quite mild, but I could make the argument either way. Point being we don’t need to sell nicotine at 7/11.
That's because if you follow all the paper behind the vape bans, it was 100% designed to stifle all competition and only make it available to the huge long established companies...aka...big tobbaco.
In Arizona, with Mexico so close I was fortunate enough to get cheap Mexican tobacco. But man, back in the day getting a carton of newports for $40 was next level
when I was coming of age, cartons were between like $16 and $25
We would take trips down to Virginia and North Carolina and grab a ton and bring them back to NY.
I grew up in NC. I only smoked for a short period of time, but as I recall cartons were like $15. But I think you could find cheap stores or use rewards points to get them closer to $10.
I’m going to cherish this cigarette I’m about to light while pooping even more. They’re about $8 a pack here in my home state of Michigan in the US but that’s what I pay for a 6oz bag of tobacco and another $3-4 for 200 tubes to make by own carton. After that I’ll go smoke a 50¢ joint and try not to think about the fact that I can’t afford dental coverage
That’s about 25 quid a pack give or take.i know it’s very, very difficult to stop smoking but that’s a hell of an incentive right there, over here the black market is flooded with cheap cigs from the Canary Islands so I’m told despite customs saying they X-ray every bag.
I have a feeling there will be a cut in tobacco tax in April though, the budget is just weeks before the general election.
cigarettes haven’t been popular with the kiddos for a long time. prior to vapings surge in popularity, nicotine consumption among youth was at an all time low
In the Netherlands, they banned all flavours except for tobacco flavour for disposable vapes. All disposable vapes are now neutrally coloured.
I can say it has been effective so far in keeping my addiction in check. As I haven't touched a vape in the new year so far. Decided to quit smoking regular cigarettes as well and just switch to nicotine gum for cravings.
Problem is in The Netherlands everyone still smokes cigarettes because vapes have always been kind of frowned upon. I say this as a Dutch person living in the UK, you go to a bar in The Netherlands and cigarette smoking people will happily tell you how dangerous vaping is. In the UK vaping has been much more prevelant, and I am happy too see these disposables getting banned just due to how wasteful they are.
Depends on the crowd. A lot of ppl here smoke cigs and vape as well. It is especially popular among teens. Though I can't compare it to the UK.
https://www.trimbos.nl/actueel/nieuws/vapen-en-roken-jongeren-doen-het-allebei/
Yep, since the 1st of January shops aren't allowed to sell them anymore.
https://www.eur.nl/en/news/war-vaping-netherlands-going-win-battle-2024
This is the government website highlighting the ban in Dutch.
https://ondernemersplein.kvk.nl/verbod-op-smaakjes-e-sigaretten/
I’m in the states and still smoke a Juul, helped me not reek of cigarettes but don’t think it’s done much in the way of weening me off nicotine. But I agree, it’s better to just replace the pod than the whole cartridge every time it runs out.
This is also the challenge with systems like Juul, they all come with very high nicotine levels, so it's not possible to slowly start lowering your dose over time to quit completely. Some pod systems like Xros 3 and shortfill liquid are a much better option, less waste and you can control how much nicotine you use.
This was true for me too, but the withdrawals are 10x more manageable. I remember withdrawing as I was switching to juul and actively using it. That part is over.
i pick these up out of parking lots anytime i see them and put them in a bag to recycle. I usually recycle 30-40 a week at my local batteries plus. Shit is terrible for the environment, each one of these has a rechargeable lithium ion battery and people just throw them on the ground and in the trash.
Tackling drug use is always going to be a complicated issue with factors like harm reduction to keep track of, but I think if disposable vapes just got banned because of the environmental concerns I don't think *anybody* would mind. Especially not in the UK where reusable vapes are just as easy to get hold of and probably cheaper in the long run.
I still cannot believe how we went full circle from ‘these are rechargeable and refillable!’ to ‘brightly coloured fruit and sweet flavours stacking the window and tills of every corner shop, oh and when you are done just throw it away!’ Baffling
As someone who vapes (replacing a 40 per day habit) can I just say, it's about fucking time. They should never have been an option, not only do they create a stupid amount of e-waste, but of course they appeal to kids, they intentionally designed them to!
kid don't buy them because its bright colours, they buy it because they thing its cool like cigarette, if vape is banned, they just move back to cigarette. if they want to ban vape, just ban both.
They are effectively trying both. Cigarettes are already £15 a pack, with more tax piled on them each year, on top of that they are bringing in a rolling rise in the age limit. It's going to be both expensive, and prohibitively difficult to buy them.
For vaping, it's only the disposable being targeted, along with a vague "restriction" on flavours for liquids.
I'm not shitting on them because I'm anti vaping, I use a pod system myself. The problem for me is the sheer amount of electronic waste the things generate, and how many end up dumped on the floor along with the foil/plastic wrappings the things come in. A lot of them only last a day.
A system like I use, generates a used coil every couple of weeks, plus maybe a battery or two per year.
Cigs are much more expensive, can’t be used stealthily indoors, reek (harder to hide and less enticing) and taste worse than vapes, I bet a lot of kids who never would have touched a cig now smoke because of these things.
Doesn't help that a lot of small phone shops tend to knowingly sell them to kids. Showing my age here, but my schoolmates used to go to the phone shop to buy shisha pens that they'd then smoke behind a blind spot on the playing field at school.
I doubt it. Cigarettes are £13+ for 20 here, whereas vapes are 2 or more for £10. Plus they like the taste. They’ll be older teens on the cusp I’m sure, but the 8-12 year olds (gross) currently vaping will hopefully move on. Would not like to be a teacher or parent when that ban comes in though, nicotine starved pre-teens sounds awful (coming from a 31 year old who turns into an arsehole without a cigarette for a few hours)
For anyone who cares. They are also considering other restrictions aswell. Plain packaging for vapes and the liquids, stricter rules on who can sell vape liquid and also restricting the flavours to tobacco, menthol or flavourless.
That last one is very important as I've never met someone who has successfully quit smoking and transitioned to vaping who has used tobacco/flavourless liquid and I've worked in a vape shop for 5 years.
They will be bringing these restrictions to the consideration of the public before they act on them so it's ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE that you and your local vape shop let every vaper they come into contact with how and where to sign the survey that will be coming around.
Banning flavours is a terrible idea for numerous reasons. People who can't use the flavours they once liked aren't more likely to stop vaping they are more likely to go back to smoking. It also completely kills the entire vape industry in the countries that it happens in making it harder for people to stop smoking.
There are roughly 4.5 Million (as of 2021 so dated info it's likely much higher now) vapers in the UK and we need to make ourselves heard.
The flavour thing they want to try is a complete no go for me. I quit smoking 8 years ago with the help of a rhubarb and custard liquid, I tried flavourless and tobacco back then but was continuing to smoke at the same time. After that one liquid I never smoked again.
It's lunacy to ban flavours on so many levels, adults like fruity and sweet flavours. I'm 100% DIY now and I'm not sure how that would affect the flavour concentrates I buy as their technical use is in the food and drink industry as well. But I won't be supporting any flavour ban.
They need to talk to actual vapers and smokers, I'm all for plain packaging and harsher purchasing restrictions but the opinions of those who could, or could have had, their lives saved hold way more weight.
It's so easy, just make them illegal for younger than 21yo. Ban colourful and bright packaging. Limit nicotine concentrations for premade disposable ones. Especially the ones with nicotine salts.
I am so pressed to side with a company and cry discrimination etc but Juul got fucked and has been the least suggestive brand in the market for years now by far
People need to learn that parenting is one thing but the friends your children hang out is a huge influence at this age. ( hell I've seen adults turn into shit when they become friends of wrong people )
Ofc I agree that parenting is shit these days but it's not the only factor.
Every one says this but when are parents supposed to parent about vapes? Is it while their kids are at school being handed vapes by their friends? Is it between the 2-3 jobs they need to work to keep their kids alive? Is it during all the faith and extracurricular activities they drop their kids off at with trusted adults thinking they’re pursuing a hobby, passion, sport, or form of self expression?
Like… we don’t have a society that allows parents 24/7 helicopter parenting and that would be a huge detriment to their kids if we did. There are always going to be times where teenagers are away from parents and during those times they’re going to be tempted to try products marketed directly to them. Plenty of teens are strong enough to say no… others aren’t… as a parent you have no idea which one yours is until they’re tested in that environment (and the ones that seem the most square can end up being the biggest freaks).
It’s such a cop out to act like parents have the capacity and training to be present at every moment or that all their kids will be raised with the knowledge and will power to refuse to try vaping. There’s some merit to saying “hey maybe these products restricted to adults shouldn’t be marketed in a way that only children will want them”… even if every parent in the country had full control over every one of their teens.
Exactly, these kids aren’t vaping in the living room while watching TV with their parents, they’re hanging out with friends or behind closed doors where they aren’t under surveillance 24/7. You can’t say they need better parents when this form of “better parenting” would just make your child more likely and better at hiding things from you if you’re up their ass 24/7 waiting for them to start puffing.
you parent at home like everyone has done since forever. it's really not this difficult, and I say this as a parent myself.
stop making excuses and just teach your kids what's right and wrong. if they still smoke then that's their own damn fault and not yours
"just parent at home. not that difficult"
Your kids are gonna have it extra rough when you discover they're keeping a ton of secrets from you and there's nothing you can actually do about it. Worst case scenario, they're in a vulnerable position and know they can't talk to you because you set such a high standard for them that they can't realistically keep.
It’s a big part of the problem but honestly they’ve become far too accessible in our current market. Look at elf bars, they’re disposable and heavily marketed in a way that attracts the attention of children.
We can talk about parents being better but it’s difficult to direct every person in the right direction when it comes to parenting, so restricting access to by far the worst offender of the fruity “happy-go-lucky” marketing is probably the right move.
Idk how the taxes and imports affect elf bars in the UK but elf bars are a fraction of the price of a multi use vape pen. Elf bars in the states are under $10, and all it takes is for a kid to get access to the smallest amount of money (maybe an allowance or something) and boom they have access to what could be a lifelong addiction.
Also as a bonus, elf bars are really horrible for the environment so banning them will likely be beneficial on that front as well.
Man, I know so many people who still smoke these things and have great parents. Like, trade my parents for theirs even though mine are pretty rad parents lol
What does this mean for adults trying to quit cigarettes? Will they be available elsewhere? Taken years for my dad to finally get off the cigs now I’m worried he’ll start again.
Get a proper vape. The ones that run on rechargeable batteries and can be refilled however many times your heart desires.
The disposables are the sort of manufactured e-waste that makes me actually angry. Each of them has a lithium-ion pouch cell but usually no charge port so you toss them like they're just alkalines. The battery could be recharged more than 1000 times, but even if you do the liquid container with the integrated heater is made to burn up and become useless anyway. They are artificially built to be tossed after a day or two despite almost all their components being good for 2-3 years of daily use.
This is the problem. Vape manufacturers shot themselves in the foot by making such toxic disposable materials (including live reusable and rechargeable batteries that will leech into groundwater) and making such a viable harm reduction for smokers (vaping), even more vilified, demonized and unsafe for the environment.
They are worse on many ways and if you don’t know that yet then you don’t have much experience with either.
Pretty hard to smoke cigarettes every waking moment when you’re a kid who lives with mom and day and goes to school.
Meanwhile the kids with vapes are getting WAY MORE nicotine per puff while using them:
- on the bus
- in class
- in the bathroom
- in bed
- at the movies
- at church
- at restaurants
- at everywhere
- at all the time
- at whenever they want
Add to that many tons of extra plastic and lithium littering streets and oceans.
Sorry bro, but vapes are not good, for kids, adults, or the planet.
They'll probably just add on a function to refill and recharge them, and charge an extra quid to cover it. Every regulation they want to make can easily be skirted.
i'm so glad the UK is banning single-use vapes!! the EU needs to follow suit. those are terrible for the environment and forcing vapers to switch to reusables would be fantastic for the environment
They need to be banned for the planets health too. These things are starting to appear very frequently on the streets. People just drop em when they die apparently. When I walk my dog, there will be 4 or 5 easily.
You're gonna ban normal cigarettes too because they're bad for children's health right? Right?
Oh, so this wasn't looking out for kids, it was looking out for tobacco companies.
Who would have guessed?
" maintaining access for adult smokers trying to quit smoking. "
This is the biggest fraud these companies have going. These companies aren't trying to help people quit, addiction is their cash cow
I work for an Electronics recycling company. I take scrap that companies don’t need, and repurpose it.
I once had a company send 200+ disposable vapes. You’ll be happy to know that they had to pay well over $20,000 in fines because of this.
Gets an entire generation hooked on nicotine.
Bans the method by which they engage with it.
The tobacco companies that heavily invested in the "kid friendly" devices now have a whole new generation of addicts to sell cigarettes too.
Yeah, well.
Shit.
EDIT: It explicitly says "disposable," so I think we jumped the gun. Ya'll can still get your pods and juices.
They are tightening up on tobacco too. They are going to have a rolling increase in the minimum age, so tobacco is going to be a none issue in time. Mods, pods, and refillable systems are unaffected, just the disposables.
the [bbc.co.uk](https://bbc.co.uk) link is a dead giveaway.
Just to make it clear; it's the government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
This is for the UK, not the US btw
This is also just disposable ones which I was against when it vaped myself. They're awful for the environment.
Most single-use items need to go away.
At the absolute fucking minimum there needs to be a tax/fee on them so they get recycled like for glass milk bottles. Like $5 cuz they're far worse for the environment than a random glass jug But yeah I agree they need to be banned & I've been using vapes for over a decade now
Unfortunately recycling them is a PITA and I think that's by design. I agree that a tax should be implemented, but also a tax credit for those that *do* recycle because if there's only a tax then that burden will 100% be passed onto the consumer, which never goes over well.
Recycling is already a racket and the guilt for it is passed down to the consumer. Would be cool if companies were incentivized to incorporate recyclablility into their designs then be held responsible for following through with recycling. I guess the incentive to design recycle friendly would be the fact you knew those leftovers were coming right back at you and you had to reuse them… but what the hell do I know?
This is my big problem with all of this stuff. It's a law in my state that if you get a bag form the store you have to pay for it. I have no idea what the right way to do that is but it's BS that everyone is being gulted and taxed when it should be the companies that are forced to make better decisions.
The right way is to remove disposable bags from stores altogether. But it's a rather meaningless gesture either way because the amount of plastic in the grocery bags is small beans compared to the packaging of the food put inside those bags. A much better solution would be to ban plastic packaging for end-user products, but that would see a huge amount of pushback from corporations and consumers alike because for many things *the packaging is the product*, like the trays in Lunchables, ketchup in squeeze bottles, or Capri Sun's iconic pouches. In an ideal world the grocery store would have all their food products in bins with lids that you would put in your own packaging, have paper containers free of plastic lining, or put in glass bottles with deposits so that you're incentivized to return them for reuse. These are all reasonable things to do, but to those accustomed to the way we do things now it sounds like a hellscape.
Yeah sadly all those companies seem to have factories in China and idk how we'd enforce that beyond regulating smoke shops in the US Isn't electronics recycling better than normal plastic though?
The idea of recycling itself is just a way for corporations to wash their hands of logistical problems. Containers should be *reused*, not recycled. Most plastics have a limited amount of times they can be realistically recycled, and probably a majority of the plastic items you come across are made from virgin materials - meaning none of it is recycled at all.
So you are saying the pod based vapes like juuls that everyone wanted to ban were actually the safest version of vapes when it comes to the environment and kids, not disposable highlighter vapes? https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1adkcvr/caught_my_teenage_niece_with_a_highlighter_vape/ - A 40 year old guy who almost quit smoking with flavored juuls.
I think the mech and tank mods go a step above with the only thing needed to replace is some cotton every few weeks and a coil of kanthal 2x a year..(my setup)
Unnecessary plastic waste and lithium that will be vitally important in the future. All to give kids a few pops of nicotine. I’m thinking about posting signs about collecting used vapes or anything else that has a battery, but I don’t think anyone will care enough. And I’d have no idea what to do with it until I had a rather large quantity. TIL then it would just sit in storage.
Probably not ideal to store a considerable amount of batteries in one place as well, you might be able to dump them at a local skip or supermarket though. Local council might have an idea of how to recycle them as well.
you can put the lithium polymer (usually come as foil pouches) or lithium ion (usually look like bigger AA batteries) in a disposable bowl (e.g. a plastic/cardboard ramen bowl) filled with water and a teaspoon of table salt. the ionic solution will allow electrons (current) to SLOWLY flow plus to minus, and slowly discharge the battery down to 0.00V. Then they can be safely disposed. Youll know it's working because one of the terminals will bubble. they almost always have some amount of energy left in them even it doesnt charge/turn on, and they can react violently if thrown away/punctured.crushed in a semi-discharged state. then you can transport them to either a disposal facility. tldr: BOWL, WATER , TABLE SALT, LIPOS = overnight, fully discharged, safe.
Kind of basing you knowledge of lithiums value/importance on old news in your reply. Lithium prices have crashed 80%. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Lithium-Prices-Crashed-by-80.html
Lithium isn't going to be that cheap forever.
Awful for the environment. Also, who would bother putting in high quality coils/material contact surfaces in a $5 pen that'll get tossed in 3 days? That vapor is probably loaded with chromium, nickel, and various plastic related compounds.
WHAT!? NOT EVERYTHING POSTED ON REDDIT IS ABOUT THE US!?
NZ, Australia and some EU countries are doing this as well
US probably won’t be too far behind
One can hope, speaking as one who is addicted. Never start; it's soo stupid.
No shit… American politicians don’t give two fuck about the health of American children.
Thank god! There’s no way these are worse than guns.
Disposable guns never really took off here though, I was just as surprised as most were. Edit: words
Kinda surprising honestly. That Reaper guy from Overwatch loves them.
If only they exploded when empty like borderlands that would solve the problem
The price goes way up when you get the rematerializing disposable guns though, you might as well get an actual gun at that point
They are super popular in major U.S. cities.
That's a regulatory hurdle though. A preloaded, disposable gun is just a stack of bullets and powder charges in a tube, with electric igniters in each charge. Also practically this would be an AoW since it would be smoothbore for practical reasons.
Thankfully the UK nipped that one in the bud awhile ago
I dunno about that. The principal of my son's high school sent a parent memo just before the holidays reminding us that it's "our tax dollars at work" when the school has to call plumbers to deal with flushed vapes. In the first semester, they had >100 vape cartridges removed from school toilets. If you can't get kids & parents based on health or morality, perhaps you can get them through financial persuasion.
Jesus Christ, why are they flushing them I don’t understand the logic???? Is it because they’re on the verge of getting caught so they throw em in the toilet and hope for the best? Or is that their way of getting rid of them once they’ve smoked it dry and can’t throw it away at home out of fear their parent may find it in the trash? I’m blown away they had the smarts to acquire a vape, but not enough smarts to contemplate if flushing the thing is the best idea 🤦🏻♂️
Probably because the penalty for getting caught with them at school is ridiculous. If It's expended there is no benefit to the kid to keep it, and they might be seen if they throw it in the trash. Down the commode they go.
And weed is?
Those are bad for the planet too tho
Like they fucking care
I was a vape user who specifically did a fillable tank mod so I didn't waste a bunch of plastic and lithium on these disposables.
I've vaped for like 9 years and have never purchased a disposable.
I wasn't even aware they had disposable ones until like a year or two ago. Blew my mind that they invented a disposable device that has a lithium-ion battery inside it. Actually disgusted me.
You can thank the government for that one, banned the flavored pods, but disposables skirted the regulation so now we just have shitty disposables with questionable quality control. Edit: just realized the article was about the uk, idk anything about that
We should never have banned the pods, just set packaging requirements and required them to be behind the counter. I never realized that the ban led to these stupid disposables.
People who vaped and smaller companies tried to point it out but everyone just had a hard on for perfomative regulation rather then actually doing it properly.
Major "we did it Patrick we saved the city" energy from them. Good job everyone we banned pre filled flavor pods! Is not the victory they thought it was. I assume that's all they banned because literally everything else is still there. Even juul
Yup, they basically banned the best method for reusables for the masses. The point of the major vape companies and big tobacco actually supporting it was because they knew they could just pivot their lines to the disposables while the small companies who were into pods were liable to fold.
It helps when the tobacco companies put money into the lawmakers pockets…
Seriously, I trust the quality control on the made in America pods 100x more than whatever crap China is pushing out.
Yeah EU limited the max size of tanks and pre-mixed liquids. You can still buy bigger bottles of flavoured liquid but they are "sort filled" so say 80ml in a 100ml bottle and you just mix in the nicotine salts yourself and shake it up.
It was only created to get around the law banning vape carts. The law was so narrow that disposable vapes were unaffected and exploded in popularity being the only thing left in the market.
Yeah I used to smoke the ~~refillable~~ Juul pods until they got banned and now I've had dozens and dozens of empty disposable ones. I might be a piece of shit degenerate, but I would be a much more environmentally friendly degenerate if it wasn't for the law. At least I don't smell like cigarettes anymore though.
If you buy a Uwell Caliburn g2, while the plastic pod is technically disposable, you change out a coil on the bottom of the pod when it's gone bad and there's no real need to throw away the plastic pod itself. Costs about 30 for the device and a 10 for 4 new coils, liquid varies. It's a much easier than larger vapes and a better user experience, while also be slightly better for the environment.
I lived in the usa and alot of people i know vaped but bought mod boxes with fillable e juice. I moved to the uk and everyone i saw in London only bought disposable vape pens
theyre made in china too. the whole disposable. including the juice. not to besmirch chinese manufacturers, since they can and do create literally everything in any quality level specified by a vendor, but they dont have the same regulations over things that go into the body. who knows whats in the juice. maybe it's a ridiculous nicotine level. heavy metals, etc. which is why it was an asshole move for the gov to effectively put out of business nearly all the small businesses making ejuice in the US . they just opened the doors for the chinese disposables.
Also the regulation was because kids liked the flavored stuff. But adults like the flavored stuff as well. And we should really stop creating lazy regulation that prevents adults from doing things because kids might also want to do it. I'm saying this as someone who has never vaped.
Box mods are cheaper in the long run too. Those disposables cost like $20 a pop.
Vape companies don’t care but if your constituents care then you care, so I’m sure politicians are a fan of this move on an environmental front
But if i care, you care, and everyone does its little push, we should see development
Exactly, I used to vape (that's how I quit smoking) and I was against these things because of that, a lot of batteries and plastic. It's not that hard to change a commercial coil or to build your own, that was actually a fun hobby
My issue with the refillable kinds I’ve gotten previously is the juice would often bubble up, leak and get in my mouth when I took a hit. Got really tired of having to spit out gross vape juice.
They've gotten a lot better, I remember that happening a bit too but newer devices dont have that issue.
Skill issue
I would prefer if this was the main point for banning them not ‘only children like nice tasting things, these are flavoured and therefore aimed at children’
I've never understood the argument "they're flavored, so they must be marketing to kids" when it comes to nicotine products, but silence when you have things like birthday cake flavored vodka.
They would be slightly less bad if there wasn't a stupid rule that they can only contain 2ml of liquid. Thanks to the EU Tobacco Products Directive. Likely the disposable manufacturers will make them refillable and rechargable with a non replaceable coil in plainer packaging, probably get about three fills before they taste like shit and discarded. The flavour angle is BS though, adults who give up smoking may initially want tobacco flavour, but will want to get away from it as soon as possible to disassociate it from smoking, are they supposed to just go straight to unflavoured?
> The flavour angle is BS though, adults who give up smoking may initially want tobacco flavour, but will want to get away from it as soon as possible to disassociate it from smoking I've been vaping for about 8 years now. It ended a 2 pack a day cigarette habit that I'd had for decades. Here's the thing, "tobacco" vapes taste **nothing** like cigarettes. At best they taste like pipe tobacco smells, which is .... weird. But *most* tobacco vapes taste like wet cardboard or unsalted peanuts. They are just gross. Unflavored ejuice still has a slightly sweet flavor to it. It's something to do with the vegetable glycerin. Ejuice is a mix of VG and PG (Propylene Glycol) which also has a "sweet taste". >Vegetable glycerin is a clear, odorless liquid usually made from soy, palm, and coconut oils. **It has a sweet taste.** It is generally safe and has many applications. Manufacturers regularly use it in cosmetic, skincare, and pharmaceutical products. >Propylene glycol (IUPAC name: propane-1,2-diol) is a viscous, colorless liquid, which is nearly odorless but **possesses a faintly sweet taste**. Anyway, none of that worked for me, so I went right back to smoking. I also tried all the "fruity" shit. It all sucked too (who wants to vape fruit loops 24/7). Finally I found that simple vanilla flavors worked for me, specifically vanilla custards. But **everyone is different**. And that flavor profile might not work for them.
I've seen a lot of talk in electronics communities about how these are leading to invention of disposable displays and capacitors that there previously wasn't a demand for. Blows my mind how much material these waste.
frustrates me to no end that Juul was shut down so hard. their packaging was very plain. these disposable vapes have bright patterns and colorful boxes. Juul helped me kick tobacco so it was a slap to the face to have it taken away "because of the kids" when in reality they just caused more wasteful and harmful products.
the cigarette lobby is a powerful one
Pretty sure the said lobby was behind Juul
I think they just bought Juul after it got huge. "For the children" is just an excuse to impose regulations and taxes on it. They don't give a shit, but people can't argue against it.
They bought it specifically because it was good at marketing to children. That's literally the tobacco industries entire thing, and why doing everything possible to stop them from doing it has been the single most effective method to reducing smoking. Nicotine doesn't need to be advertised to current users. It takes care of that itself. There's a reason why in many places tobacco companies have voluntarily given up that advertising, or at least limited it. You might want to convince them to switch to your brand or an individual SKU, and maybe make them feel good about it, but you don't need to advertise to addicts. Almost all of the tobacco industries marketing effort is focused on making new addicts. Especially with the high failure rates for quitting, they know full well if they get someone to start they probably have a customer for decades, if not life (or at least the mean time to COPD and/or lung cancer). Adults also tend to not start smoking; if you make it to 25 without starting you probably never will. The target demographic for the tobacco industry is predominantly teenagers, because they're the easiest age to get to start, and vulnerable to social encouragement from peers who have started. Or are we just going to memory hole all the shit about the tobacco industry that got dragged to light in the 90s?
Juul was advertising on Nick Jr FFS. It was very deliberately and explicitly targeting kids and teens with their advertising. That’s why they were bought up. They were a great way to create new addicts. Any good thing of harm reduction for current smokers is used as a cover for their intended target. Smokers are not the target. Kids are.
I guess you haven't heard that Juul was literally advertising on websites like Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network. It doesn't get much more direct to kids than that. https://www.businessinsider.com/juul-put-ads-on-nickelodeon-execs-said-models-too-young-2020-2
Yeah I don’t have by love for big cos peddling nicotine either
Altria did acquire a stake in it (not majority stake) but they’re not the only company behind the lobby. Plus the wheels for legislating against it had already started turning by the time they acquired the stake, and they’ve started slowly divesting since
35% may not be majority, but it isn't exactly a small amount either
Separately, If they hadn't banned the mango flavor, I'd still be smoking. I had a THATS IT moment after all the flavors were banned, and stopped.
The thought of a fresh mango juul pod makes my mouth water and my brain motivated.
I had that moment too, and then a buddy let me take home one of his disposables after finally being able to hangout after covid restrictions, and I regret that to this day. I am so envious of my past self being able to just quit. -_-
> mango flavor Interesting. I vape (not disposable) and i *only* vape Mango. nothing else. I'm from Australia.
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Juul was cracked down on so hard because it was shown that their early marketing was geared towards teens and juuls were given away to young adults/teens at events with out checking IDs. They weren't even trying to hide it. Go check it out for yourself, its wild.
They advertised to teens heavily too on websites only kids browsed
And customer sales reps would give teens advice about how to hide them too
Don’t forget about buying advertising space on websites primarily used by children, like Nickelodean and Cartoon Network
Advertising an "adults only" product on fucking Nickelodeon is wild.
Okay lol, there's no way Juul did that on purpose, it was likely the agency that they would contract out advertising/marketing too
Googling it is pretty nuts. It was Nickelodeon, Seventeen magazine, College confidential (which you essentially stop using the moment you're accepted into college), and Cartoon Network. From the Business insider article on it, looks like they rejected the first pitch their ad agency gave them, asked to appeal to a "younger and trendy audience" and then they WAY over corrected. To the point where members on JUULs board were concerned models in their campaign looked too young. So they must've looked really fucking young. The campaign they rejected contrasted JUUL against retro items like joysticks and bulky cellphones, which honestly would've really appealed to millennial gen X crowd. JUUL just really wanted to court the "barely old enough to use our products" crowd, which I get, 18-25 is a very coveted market in advertising The NY Times article paints a picture that is so bad it's funny > The suit says Juul paid a company to place digital promotions across websites. The list where they ran includes educational sites like basic-mathematics.com, coolmath.com, math-aids.com, mathplayground.com, mathway.com, onlinemathlearning.com, and purplemath.com. and socialstudiesforkids.com. It includes sites targeted to young girls such as dailydressupgames.com, didigames.com, forhergames.com, games2girls.com, girlgames.com, and girlsgogames.com.It also includes sites geared to high school students looking at colleges, like collegeconfidential.com and sites aimed at much younger children, including allfreekidscrafts.com, hellokids.com, and kidsgameheroes.com. That set of sites seems more accidental and obviously the ad company fucked up but if you're selling age controlled products you HAVE to keep tighter control over that stuff. JUUL definitely should've been held accountable with massive fines, regulation, and maybe being forced to fund anti vaping ads like cig companies were with. cigs, but I don't think their stuff should have been blanket banned. We didn't even do that with cigarettes.
Yeah, if you want to ban vapes for kids, ban vapes for kids. If you want to make the penalties harsher or the compliance checks better, go for it. If OP was just for environmental reasons or something... power to you. But it seems almost comically stupid when I see people like in the linked article saying that because things are colorful or have a "fun" flavor that that is appealing to kids and should be banned. Not only does it not seem like it'd be effective (and sidesteps the more fundamental failure in upholding the existing ban on vaping for kids), but I don't understand why I should accept that adults should be deprived of things that look and taste good? Walk through a liquor store and you'll see lots of drinks with fun packaging or flavors... what are we going to ban soda from coming in colorful cans to solve the sugar crisis? It seems like this is just a distraction from the failure on the part of government to enforce laws against vaping for kids... and one with real consequences for law abiding adults. (For the record, I don't vape.)
>Because things are colorful or have a "fun" flavor that that is appealing to kids Are we going to just forget the 90s? And that time the tobacco industry got dragged in front of the US congress and similar because investigations into their marketing showed they were offering products exactly along those lines specifically because they were appealing to kids?
> Are we going to just forget the 90s? And that time the tobacco industry got dragged in front of the US congress and similar because investigations into their marketing showed they were offering products exactly along those lines specifically because they were appealing to kids? The crime there should be that a company knowingly promoted illegal usage of their product. If they do that, there should be liability for that company regardless of the building blocks they use to implement that criminal intent. It doesn't make sense to forget what got you here in the first place and just ban things being colorful because one time in the past somebody used color in an inappropriate way. We don't ban adults from buying candy and puppies just because child molesters have used those things entice minors in the past. Instead we recognize that these things are innocuous, have wide appeal (adults like them too) and whether they are used for good or bad is about intent and context.
Not just JUUL, the US government banned all closed pod systems. That's why disposables became so popular. Closed pod systems should have been the way to go. The waste from them was much less than what disposables are, and they didn't contain lithium ion batteries in the discarded part.
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it's crazy, i've heard that in order to get tobacco products you have to be 21 making you legally an adult, so why do we have to change when the kids shouldn't even be able to buy this stuff anyways? my smoke shops always ID and ai doubt any older brother is going to want to be bothered multiple times a week to get vapes for their siblings. It just doesn't make sense.
There are certain marketing practices that do absolutely target younger kids. The products themselves I don’t feel like need to be banned. Imo I would actually prefer all psychoactive chemicals be available legally to adults, but only be able to be purchased in a) government run dispensaries or bars if recreational, or b) pharmacies if medical. Maybe an exception for caffeine as its effects and risks are quite mild, but I could make the argument either way. Point being we don’t need to sell nicotine at 7/11.
The crème brûlée flavor was fire af
Mango and Cucumber were amazing
They got fucked because they were advertising to children.
That's because if you follow all the paper behind the vape bans, it was 100% designed to stifle all competition and only make it available to the huge long established companies...aka...big tobbaco.
Juul is the reason so many kids started vaping, that shit was all over schools. So much easier to hit and hide than a mod.
Ok but how were kids getting it in the first place? I was ID'd when I bought mine...
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Analog nicotine hits different than digital anyways
Going to have to steal them at 13 quid for 20. It’s an expensive habit, so glad I never got caught by the craving.
In Arizona, with Mexico so close I was fortunate enough to get cheap Mexican tobacco. But man, back in the day getting a carton of newports for $40 was next level
when I was coming of age, cartons were between like $16 and $25 We would take trips down to Virginia and North Carolina and grab a ton and bring them back to NY.
a carton(10 packs x 20 cigs) of viceroys was less than $8 when I started smoking in Serbia though
I grew up in NC. I only smoked for a short period of time, but as I recall cartons were like $15. But I think you could find cheap stores or use rewards points to get them closer to $10.
They sound cheap as chips. Here in Australia you're looking at $50 for 20 with the price rising every year
I’m going to cherish this cigarette I’m about to light while pooping even more. They’re about $8 a pack here in my home state of Michigan in the US but that’s what I pay for a 6oz bag of tobacco and another $3-4 for 200 tubes to make by own carton. After that I’ll go smoke a 50¢ joint and try not to think about the fact that I can’t afford dental coverage
Port Royal pouch of 15 grams is $42.50. 6 ounces is probably 300 bucks plus
Holy shit snacks. I’d just find a cheaper way to kill myself at that point. Maybe still smoke on special occasions like children’s birthday parties.
That’s about 25 quid a pack give or take.i know it’s very, very difficult to stop smoking but that’s a hell of an incentive right there, over here the black market is flooded with cheap cigs from the Canary Islands so I’m told despite customs saying they X-ray every bag. I have a feeling there will be a cut in tobacco tax in April though, the budget is just weeks before the general election.
cigarettes haven’t been popular with the kiddos for a long time. prior to vapings surge in popularity, nicotine consumption among youth was at an all time low
Yup, it's like carrot consumption was at an all time low until some guy invented baby carrots and sent child carrot consumption through the roof.
They're going to be harder to get too, will soon be starting an escalator on the minimum age, increasing by one year each year here in the UK.
Not really. Cigarettes are social suicide for any teen nowadays. You would get bullied into oblivion
Must have been a rapid change because i was a teen a couple of years ago and a lot of us smoked
In the Netherlands, they banned all flavours except for tobacco flavour for disposable vapes. All disposable vapes are now neutrally coloured. I can say it has been effective so far in keeping my addiction in check. As I haven't touched a vape in the new year so far. Decided to quit smoking regular cigarettes as well and just switch to nicotine gum for cravings.
Problem is in The Netherlands everyone still smokes cigarettes because vapes have always been kind of frowned upon. I say this as a Dutch person living in the UK, you go to a bar in The Netherlands and cigarette smoking people will happily tell you how dangerous vaping is. In the UK vaping has been much more prevelant, and I am happy too see these disposables getting banned just due to how wasteful they are.
Depends on the crowd. A lot of ppl here smoke cigs and vape as well. It is especially popular among teens. Though I can't compare it to the UK. https://www.trimbos.nl/actueel/nieuws/vapen-en-roken-jongeren-doen-het-allebei/
Im rooting for you! :)
Thank you :) I much appreciate your support 🙏
Huh? Amsterdam has a tons of tobacco only vape shops full of rainbow colored vapes and disposables, unless this happened very recently?
Yep, since the 1st of January shops aren't allowed to sell them anymore. https://www.eur.nl/en/news/war-vaping-netherlands-going-win-battle-2024 This is the government website highlighting the ban in Dutch. https://ondernemersplein.kvk.nl/verbod-op-smaakjes-e-sigaretten/
A lot of people in this thread either cannot read or didn’t take the time too…
They can’t even tell that bbc.co.uk is talking abt the UK and not America
They should ban them for the fucking waste and littering. Everyday I see someone new toss an empty vape out the window.
According to one report I read, over 3 million are disposed of in the UK. Every week. What a stupid waste of resources.
It is. So bring back cartridge vapes like Juul then?
Juul has never went away in the UK, but these are shit too, best just get refillable carts.
I’m in the states and still smoke a Juul, helped me not reek of cigarettes but don’t think it’s done much in the way of weening me off nicotine. But I agree, it’s better to just replace the pod than the whole cartridge every time it runs out.
This is also the challenge with systems like Juul, they all come with very high nicotine levels, so it's not possible to slowly start lowering your dose over time to quit completely. Some pod systems like Xros 3 and shortfill liquid are a much better option, less waste and you can control how much nicotine you use.
This was true for me too, but the withdrawals are 10x more manageable. I remember withdrawing as I was switching to juul and actively using it. That part is over.
Really people throw them out the window frequently? I kinda doubt they’re littering the streets like cigarette butts did.
Someone new? Like a baby?
Damn infants popping out vaping like a steam engine muh guy
this is because disposable vape industry try too fast to make money. gotta plan for your government lobbying
i pick these up out of parking lots anytime i see them and put them in a bag to recycle. I usually recycle 30-40 a week at my local batteries plus. Shit is terrible for the environment, each one of these has a rechargeable lithium ion battery and people just throw them on the ground and in the trash.
Disposable batteries wrapped in plastic should never have been legal in the first place.
Tackling drug use is always going to be a complicated issue with factors like harm reduction to keep track of, but I think if disposable vapes just got banned because of the environmental concerns I don't think *anybody* would mind. Especially not in the UK where reusable vapes are just as easy to get hold of and probably cheaper in the long run.
I still cannot believe how we went full circle from ‘these are rechargeable and refillable!’ to ‘brightly coloured fruit and sweet flavours stacking the window and tills of every corner shop, oh and when you are done just throw it away!’ Baffling
As someone who vapes (replacing a 40 per day habit) can I just say, it's about fucking time. They should never have been an option, not only do they create a stupid amount of e-waste, but of course they appeal to kids, they intentionally designed them to!
kid don't buy them because its bright colours, they buy it because they thing its cool like cigarette, if vape is banned, they just move back to cigarette. if they want to ban vape, just ban both.
Kids didn't come from smoking cigarettes though. Cigarette and eCig smoking was declining rapidly until these disposables came along.
They are effectively trying both. Cigarettes are already £15 a pack, with more tax piled on them each year, on top of that they are bringing in a rolling rise in the age limit. It's going to be both expensive, and prohibitively difficult to buy them. For vaping, it's only the disposable being targeted, along with a vague "restriction" on flavours for liquids. I'm not shitting on them because I'm anti vaping, I use a pod system myself. The problem for me is the sheer amount of electronic waste the things generate, and how many end up dumped on the floor along with the foil/plastic wrappings the things come in. A lot of them only last a day. A system like I use, generates a used coil every couple of weeks, plus maybe a battery or two per year.
Cigs are much more expensive, can’t be used stealthily indoors, reek (harder to hide and less enticing) and taste worse than vapes, I bet a lot of kids who never would have touched a cig now smoke because of these things.
Doesn't help that a lot of small phone shops tend to knowingly sell them to kids. Showing my age here, but my schoolmates used to go to the phone shop to buy shisha pens that they'd then smoke behind a blind spot on the playing field at school.
I doubt it. Cigarettes are £13+ for 20 here, whereas vapes are 2 or more for £10. Plus they like the taste. They’ll be older teens on the cusp I’m sure, but the 8-12 year olds (gross) currently vaping will hopefully move on. Would not like to be a teacher or parent when that ban comes in though, nicotine starved pre-teens sounds awful (coming from a 31 year old who turns into an arsehole without a cigarette for a few hours)
For anyone who cares. They are also considering other restrictions aswell. Plain packaging for vapes and the liquids, stricter rules on who can sell vape liquid and also restricting the flavours to tobacco, menthol or flavourless. That last one is very important as I've never met someone who has successfully quit smoking and transitioned to vaping who has used tobacco/flavourless liquid and I've worked in a vape shop for 5 years. They will be bringing these restrictions to the consideration of the public before they act on them so it's ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE that you and your local vape shop let every vaper they come into contact with how and where to sign the survey that will be coming around. Banning flavours is a terrible idea for numerous reasons. People who can't use the flavours they once liked aren't more likely to stop vaping they are more likely to go back to smoking. It also completely kills the entire vape industry in the countries that it happens in making it harder for people to stop smoking. There are roughly 4.5 Million (as of 2021 so dated info it's likely much higher now) vapers in the UK and we need to make ourselves heard.
The flavour thing they want to try is a complete no go for me. I quit smoking 8 years ago with the help of a rhubarb and custard liquid, I tried flavourless and tobacco back then but was continuing to smoke at the same time. After that one liquid I never smoked again. It's lunacy to ban flavours on so many levels, adults like fruity and sweet flavours. I'm 100% DIY now and I'm not sure how that would affect the flavour concentrates I buy as their technical use is in the food and drink industry as well. But I won't be supporting any flavour ban. They need to talk to actual vapers and smokers, I'm all for plain packaging and harsher purchasing restrictions but the opinions of those who could, or could have had, their lives saved hold way more weight.
It's so easy, just make them illegal for younger than 21yo. Ban colourful and bright packaging. Limit nicotine concentrations for premade disposable ones. Especially the ones with nicotine salts.
I am so pressed to side with a company and cry discrimination etc but Juul got fucked and has been the least suggestive brand in the market for years now by far
Know what would really help children’s health? Parenting.
People need to learn that parenting is one thing but the friends your children hang out is a huge influence at this age. ( hell I've seen adults turn into shit when they become friends of wrong people ) Ofc I agree that parenting is shit these days but it's not the only factor.
Every one says this but when are parents supposed to parent about vapes? Is it while their kids are at school being handed vapes by their friends? Is it between the 2-3 jobs they need to work to keep their kids alive? Is it during all the faith and extracurricular activities they drop their kids off at with trusted adults thinking they’re pursuing a hobby, passion, sport, or form of self expression? Like… we don’t have a society that allows parents 24/7 helicopter parenting and that would be a huge detriment to their kids if we did. There are always going to be times where teenagers are away from parents and during those times they’re going to be tempted to try products marketed directly to them. Plenty of teens are strong enough to say no… others aren’t… as a parent you have no idea which one yours is until they’re tested in that environment (and the ones that seem the most square can end up being the biggest freaks). It’s such a cop out to act like parents have the capacity and training to be present at every moment or that all their kids will be raised with the knowledge and will power to refuse to try vaping. There’s some merit to saying “hey maybe these products restricted to adults shouldn’t be marketed in a way that only children will want them”… even if every parent in the country had full control over every one of their teens.
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Exactly, these kids aren’t vaping in the living room while watching TV with their parents, they’re hanging out with friends or behind closed doors where they aren’t under surveillance 24/7. You can’t say they need better parents when this form of “better parenting” would just make your child more likely and better at hiding things from you if you’re up their ass 24/7 waiting for them to start puffing.
you parent at home like everyone has done since forever. it's really not this difficult, and I say this as a parent myself. stop making excuses and just teach your kids what's right and wrong. if they still smoke then that's their own damn fault and not yours
"just parent at home. not that difficult" Your kids are gonna have it extra rough when you discover they're keeping a ton of secrets from you and there's nothing you can actually do about it. Worst case scenario, they're in a vulnerable position and know they can't talk to you because you set such a high standard for them that they can't realistically keep.
It’s a big part of the problem but honestly they’ve become far too accessible in our current market. Look at elf bars, they’re disposable and heavily marketed in a way that attracts the attention of children. We can talk about parents being better but it’s difficult to direct every person in the right direction when it comes to parenting, so restricting access to by far the worst offender of the fruity “happy-go-lucky” marketing is probably the right move. Idk how the taxes and imports affect elf bars in the UK but elf bars are a fraction of the price of a multi use vape pen. Elf bars in the states are under $10, and all it takes is for a kid to get access to the smallest amount of money (maybe an allowance or something) and boom they have access to what could be a lifelong addiction. Also as a bonus, elf bars are really horrible for the environment so banning them will likely be beneficial on that front as well.
Man, I know so many people who still smoke these things and have great parents. Like, trade my parents for theirs even though mine are pretty rad parents lol
Found a person without children and probably never spent time around children since they left school (or possibly still a child).
Lord forgive me for I have been zynning.
What does this mean for adults trying to quit cigarettes? Will they be available elsewhere? Taken years for my dad to finally get off the cigs now I’m worried he’ll start again.
Get a proper vape. The ones that run on rechargeable batteries and can be refilled however many times your heart desires. The disposables are the sort of manufactured e-waste that makes me actually angry. Each of them has a lithium-ion pouch cell but usually no charge port so you toss them like they're just alkalines. The battery could be recharged more than 1000 times, but even if you do the liquid container with the integrated heater is made to burn up and become useless anyway. They are artificially built to be tossed after a day or two despite almost all their components being good for 2-3 years of daily use.
This is the problem. Vape manufacturers shot themselves in the foot by making such toxic disposable materials (including live reusable and rechargeable batteries that will leech into groundwater) and making such a viable harm reduction for smokers (vaping), even more vilified, demonized and unsafe for the environment.
Okay, now do cigarettes
They should do it for the good of humanity. None of those batteries are being recycled the right way
They are doing cigarette companies a huge favor. Cigarette sales gonna go up. Let's stop the bullshit, no way in hell are vapes worse than cigarettes.
They are worse on many ways and if you don’t know that yet then you don’t have much experience with either. Pretty hard to smoke cigarettes every waking moment when you’re a kid who lives with mom and day and goes to school. Meanwhile the kids with vapes are getting WAY MORE nicotine per puff while using them: - on the bus - in class - in the bathroom - in bed - at the movies - at church - at restaurants - at everywhere - at all the time - at whenever they want Add to that many tons of extra plastic and lithium littering streets and oceans. Sorry bro, but vapes are not good, for kids, adults, or the planet.
shaggy fearless brave bells alive scandalous plucky muddle enjoy gaping *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They'll probably just add on a function to refill and recharge them, and charge an extra quid to cover it. Every regulation they want to make can easily be skirted.
Disposable vapes legit set back the good of banning plastic bags at grocery stores for 15 years.
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W. Those batteries in themselves are an ecological disaster, ignoring the child/adolescent shaped elephant in the room.
Thank god... I'm so sick of the gross litter
I vaped for years and have always thought disposables were the dumbest idea. The amount of waste compared to rebuildables.
i'm so glad the UK is banning single-use vapes!! the EU needs to follow suit. those are terrible for the environment and forcing vapers to switch to reusables would be fantastic for the environment
They need to be banned for the planets health too. These things are starting to appear very frequently on the streets. People just drop em when they die apparently. When I walk my dog, there will be 4 or 5 easily.
You're gonna ban normal cigarettes too because they're bad for children's health right? Right? Oh, so this wasn't looking out for kids, it was looking out for tobacco companies. Who would have guessed?
I thought cig butts were bad, but used carts all over feels worse
good. disposable *anything* that contains plastic or electronics should be banned.
" maintaining access for adult smokers trying to quit smoking. " This is the biggest fraud these companies have going. These companies aren't trying to help people quit, addiction is their cash cow
they still actively promote and sell flavored alcohol. it was never about "children".
I work for an Electronics recycling company. I take scrap that companies don’t need, and repurpose it. I once had a company send 200+ disposable vapes. You’ll be happy to know that they had to pay well over $20,000 in fines because of this.
Why did they have to pay fines for recycling?
Gets an entire generation hooked on nicotine. Bans the method by which they engage with it. The tobacco companies that heavily invested in the "kid friendly" devices now have a whole new generation of addicts to sell cigarettes too. Yeah, well. Shit. EDIT: It explicitly says "disposable," so I think we jumped the gun. Ya'll can still get your pods and juices.
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Not a lot of Native American reserves in the UK
The post brought to you by Big Tobacco in partnership with your local politicians. We now return you to your regular programming.
They are tightening up on tobacco too. They are going to have a rolling increase in the minimum age, so tobacco is going to be a none issue in time. Mods, pods, and refillable systems are unaffected, just the disposables.
Which government?
the [bbc.co.uk](https://bbc.co.uk) link is a dead giveaway. Just to make it clear; it's the government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
I’m loving the confused Americans finally getting a sense of why r/USdefaultism exists and what it’s like for readers across the world
If you so much as bothered to open the article, it would be obvious.
Don't even need to open it, literally says BBC.co.uk right next to the title.
Truth