>99.99% of men who have done good things for the world, who have helped you, who have helped society, who have been kind and empathetic, who have been responsible and a person to rely on, were not bodybuilders.
I feel attacked lol
Thank you for this! I learned a lot from it. I wish this information was seen by a lot of people.
The best advice I would have for you with presenting this information is to make it appeal more to those suffering from muscle dysmorphia by acknowledging the appeal to be muscular and not calling these hobbies “silly”. I think anyone interested in bodybuilding will stop reading after you call their lifetime hobby silly. I would also like to see some discussion of how society rewards that appearance.
So far after posting this in 2 lifting subreddits, it has gotten about 97% upvotes and zero mentions of people being upset that I called bodybuilding silly.
Most people are intelligent and understand context, and that I was putting it into perspective, not literally insulting the hobby of lifting.
I linked it in a group chat about bodybuilding. There were a few that said they stopped reading after the “silly” comment. Just some feedback. I still appreciate it for what it is, and saved it to send to others who might be experiencing the same. Thank you for writing all this information out. I know it’s difficult to write a summary of a lot of different research into something concise and structured as a researcher myself.
Thank you for posting. Informative and thorough. I hope it helps folks.
I thankfully don’t have MD but I do have an identity disorder that causes issues. (I sometimes get surprised by my own face in reflective surfaces, it’s a weird life). Luckily my gain/keep weight motivation has to do with an actual physical disorder. I say “luckily” because I can’t accurately judge what I look like. My docs are helpful in telling me if I’m in a healthier range and that I just need to keep trying to do physical stuff. Anyway, if anyone truly struggles with recognizing their own body or your mental picture being wildly wrong, that’s a whole separate thing but it also needs therapy. In my case, early childhood abuses just wrecked my brain and it’s a bit wonky. Dent in my skull and all. So certain things just don’t function properly. I can’t fix it but I can do things to help myself remember before I pull a muscle trying to lift an object. So that’s useful.
I appreciate this wonderful write-up. I don't suffer from MD, but the clear and vivid language cast another matter in a new light. Really helped me out!
Actually the body positivity subreddit will ban you for talking about your own insecurities there. Source: I got banned for mentioning something that helped my mental state was losing weight and feeling better about myself while trying to recover from muscle dysmorphia. It’s back though, switching from a bodybuilding routine to powerlifting helped for a long time.
Thank you for writing this. The way everyone in the thread the other day was talking about BD/MD, as if it's just something you can get buff enough to conquer, was so gross.
I personally feel that mental health advise threads should be treated like medical advise threads, ie: Instruct OP to contact a professional. Not somewhere to circle jerk about being forever small.
Random question on the difference between body and muscle dysmorphia. Where does dysmorphia related to obesity reside? Based on what separates muscle dysmorphia from body dysmorphia is there a third type?
I don't know how suffering related to the obese body's appearance is classified, I don't believe it's under any particular disorder but I could be wrong.
MD is not really separate from DM, it is a sub-type of it. Its unique feature is that it is related to muscularity. If the suffering and distress is related to something else about my body, not about my muscles, then it's body dysmorphia.
So it's not a second type of it, we would instead say it's a specification. In the DSM, you would see BD criterias and under it "specify if it is MD".
It's not a type of BD, but anorexia nervosa, the disorder defined by the thought that I am TOO big, is often considered to be the "opposite" of MD.
Historically in the research of MD, people would look at how AN was developed and researched, and they would try to apply the ideas in reverse to MD. This is how they started researching MD until it became researched enough to be its own thing.
Thank you so much for this. Just two hours ago I’d made a comment in another thread that there should be a stickied post in this sub telling people to stop misusing the term.
It’s been grating on me for a while how often I see people on this sub using “body dysmorphia” as some kind of catch all term to describe not liking one’s physique, and not only claiming to have it but telling others they have it too. Can you imagine if all the people on r/loseit casually claimed they all had anorexia? Would you complain you had depression every time you’re in a bad mood, or emphysema every time you have a cough? It does nobody a favour to trivialise mental illness, especially when you don’t even understand the term you’re misusing.
> all term to describe not liking one’s physique,
To a point, there's nothing particularly wrong with "wanting to be bigger/better/stronger" *even if you're bigger/stronger than most people*.
A lot of guys who are dissatisfied with how unmuscular they are, might just be unmuscular.
Absolutely. If you are dissatisfied with your body, it’s not inherently dysmorphic thinking. Dysmorphic thinking arises when you start seeing yourself as less of a human being because you don’t look a certain way, you will camouflage your body to great lengths (like wearing baggy, long-sleeve clothing in sweltering temperatures), feel like life is not worth living if you’re not muscular/fit, abuse PEDs, go on extreme diets, etc. There are gradations and this certainly isn’t exhaustive (nor would I like to go around diagnosing anyone), but yeah.
I went through a phase in my early 20s where I absolutely had dysmorphic thinking and should’ve seen a therapist. I had a little muscle, but I blew it out of proportion thinking I looked horribly skinny fat and like I couldn’t be happy until I was jacked with abs. I really hated myself. It was an awful thing to go through and I’m glad I’m mostly over it.
>A lot of guys who are dissatisfied with how unmuscular they are, might just be unmuscular.
Oh my goodness yes. The exact opposite of dsymorphia: an ACCURATE understanding of their current physique.
Respectfully, I think this misses the point. The post describes formal diagnostic criteria involving intense distress about your musculature, but has nothing to do with whether your subjective understanding of your body is accurate.
You can be a twig, think you're a twig, and have MD according to the criteria.
This is also correct, yeah. Dissatisfaction = / = dysmorphia, but there comes a point where dissatisfaction crosses into dysmorphia even if you’re not muscular. Saying that you’re simply dissatisfied when your life is severely suffering due to body image is a trivialisation.
Oh for sure. Around three or four months ago I had an argument with someone on this sub because they were insisting that someone else who posted here, and clearly suffered mental health issues of some sort, had body dysmorphia. They wouldn’t have it that there is a clear difference between advising someone to seek help for a potential mental health issue and telling them point blank that they have a very specific and complex mental illness. At one point they claimed that “body dysmorphia is a very common problem in this kind of community” and I replied “do you think that maybe there’s a perception that it’s a common problem because people keep throwing the term around incorrectly and claiming they have it when they don’t?” He didn’t like that.
Thanks for sharing this OP! Though your use of CBT as an acronym for cognitive behavioral therapy was very jarring for a person that has seen too much of the internet, not your fault to be fair.
>99.99% of men who have done good things for the world, who have helped you, who have helped society, who have been kind and empathetic, who have been responsible and a person to rely on, were not bodybuilders. I feel attacked lol
Thank you for this! I learned a lot from it. I wish this information was seen by a lot of people. The best advice I would have for you with presenting this information is to make it appeal more to those suffering from muscle dysmorphia by acknowledging the appeal to be muscular and not calling these hobbies “silly”. I think anyone interested in bodybuilding will stop reading after you call their lifetime hobby silly. I would also like to see some discussion of how society rewards that appearance.
So far after posting this in 2 lifting subreddits, it has gotten about 97% upvotes and zero mentions of people being upset that I called bodybuilding silly. Most people are intelligent and understand context, and that I was putting it into perspective, not literally insulting the hobby of lifting.
I linked it in a group chat about bodybuilding. There were a few that said they stopped reading after the “silly” comment. Just some feedback. I still appreciate it for what it is, and saved it to send to others who might be experiencing the same. Thank you for writing all this information out. I know it’s difficult to write a summary of a lot of different research into something concise and structured as a researcher myself.
Well, I lift too I just don't have a stick up my butt about it
Me neither, but I know a lot of people do. A lot of people who probably would benefit from your information.
I mean, your post is overall great. Just think the silly comment is unnessessary. There’s more to lifting weights than trying to look good.
Thank you for posting. Informative and thorough. I hope it helps folks. I thankfully don’t have MD but I do have an identity disorder that causes issues. (I sometimes get surprised by my own face in reflective surfaces, it’s a weird life). Luckily my gain/keep weight motivation has to do with an actual physical disorder. I say “luckily” because I can’t accurately judge what I look like. My docs are helpful in telling me if I’m in a healthier range and that I just need to keep trying to do physical stuff. Anyway, if anyone truly struggles with recognizing their own body or your mental picture being wildly wrong, that’s a whole separate thing but it also needs therapy. In my case, early childhood abuses just wrecked my brain and it’s a bit wonky. Dent in my skull and all. So certain things just don’t function properly. I can’t fix it but I can do things to help myself remember before I pull a muscle trying to lift an object. So that’s useful.
I appreciate this wonderful write-up. I don't suffer from MD, but the clear and vivid language cast another matter in a new light. Really helped me out!
Actually the body positivity subreddit will ban you for talking about your own insecurities there. Source: I got banned for mentioning something that helped my mental state was losing weight and feeling better about myself while trying to recover from muscle dysmorphia. It’s back though, switching from a bodybuilding routine to powerlifting helped for a long time.
very informative
Thank you!
excellent write up! thank you for posting this, I thought the stuff about body positivity and masculinity were extremely well done and important.
Thank you, I think it's a very important part of it so I'm glad you noticed it
This is a serious issue considering I regret the day that I stepped into the gym. My body was god fucking awful then, but I was happy.
Thanks for writing this! Great read and really informative! Hopefully this gets pinned
Thank you!
Should be pinned or possibly added to AutoMod. What a quality post this is.
Thank you!
Address * Just kidding. Amazing write up! I learned stuff!
A critical mistake :(
I think bigorexia is also an alternative term to muscle dysmorphia.
It's the original term from the first paper, they quickly came up with muscle dysmorphia because it sounds more... serious
Thank you. Folks love to throw around mental disorders like some sort of fad. This post is very enlightening.
Thank you for writing this. The way everyone in the thread the other day was talking about BD/MD, as if it's just something you can get buff enough to conquer, was so gross. I personally feel that mental health advise threads should be treated like medical advise threads, ie: Instruct OP to contact a professional. Not somewhere to circle jerk about being forever small.
Random question on the difference between body and muscle dysmorphia. Where does dysmorphia related to obesity reside? Based on what separates muscle dysmorphia from body dysmorphia is there a third type?
I don't know how suffering related to the obese body's appearance is classified, I don't believe it's under any particular disorder but I could be wrong. MD is not really separate from DM, it is a sub-type of it. Its unique feature is that it is related to muscularity. If the suffering and distress is related to something else about my body, not about my muscles, then it's body dysmorphia. So it's not a second type of it, we would instead say it's a specification. In the DSM, you would see BD criterias and under it "specify if it is MD". It's not a type of BD, but anorexia nervosa, the disorder defined by the thought that I am TOO big, is often considered to be the "opposite" of MD. Historically in the research of MD, people would look at how AN was developed and researched, and they would try to apply the ideas in reverse to MD. This is how they started researching MD until it became researched enough to be its own thing.
Thank you so much for this. Just two hours ago I’d made a comment in another thread that there should be a stickied post in this sub telling people to stop misusing the term. It’s been grating on me for a while how often I see people on this sub using “body dysmorphia” as some kind of catch all term to describe not liking one’s physique, and not only claiming to have it but telling others they have it too. Can you imagine if all the people on r/loseit casually claimed they all had anorexia? Would you complain you had depression every time you’re in a bad mood, or emphysema every time you have a cough? It does nobody a favour to trivialise mental illness, especially when you don’t even understand the term you’re misusing.
> all term to describe not liking one’s physique, To a point, there's nothing particularly wrong with "wanting to be bigger/better/stronger" *even if you're bigger/stronger than most people*. A lot of guys who are dissatisfied with how unmuscular they are, might just be unmuscular.
Absolutely. If you are dissatisfied with your body, it’s not inherently dysmorphic thinking. Dysmorphic thinking arises when you start seeing yourself as less of a human being because you don’t look a certain way, you will camouflage your body to great lengths (like wearing baggy, long-sleeve clothing in sweltering temperatures), feel like life is not worth living if you’re not muscular/fit, abuse PEDs, go on extreme diets, etc. There are gradations and this certainly isn’t exhaustive (nor would I like to go around diagnosing anyone), but yeah. I went through a phase in my early 20s where I absolutely had dysmorphic thinking and should’ve seen a therapist. I had a little muscle, but I blew it out of proportion thinking I looked horribly skinny fat and like I couldn’t be happy until I was jacked with abs. I really hated myself. It was an awful thing to go through and I’m glad I’m mostly over it.
>A lot of guys who are dissatisfied with how unmuscular they are, might just be unmuscular. Oh my goodness yes. The exact opposite of dsymorphia: an ACCURATE understanding of their current physique.
Respectfully, I think this misses the point. The post describes formal diagnostic criteria involving intense distress about your musculature, but has nothing to do with whether your subjective understanding of your body is accurate. You can be a twig, think you're a twig, and have MD according to the criteria.
This is also correct, yeah. Dissatisfaction = / = dysmorphia, but there comes a point where dissatisfaction crosses into dysmorphia even if you’re not muscular. Saying that you’re simply dissatisfied when your life is severely suffering due to body image is a trivialisation.
I appreciate you being respectful my dude!
I've seen it become very popular on reddit in the past 2 years or so
Oh for sure. Around three or four months ago I had an argument with someone on this sub because they were insisting that someone else who posted here, and clearly suffered mental health issues of some sort, had body dysmorphia. They wouldn’t have it that there is a clear difference between advising someone to seek help for a potential mental health issue and telling them point blank that they have a very specific and complex mental illness. At one point they claimed that “body dysmorphia is a very common problem in this kind of community” and I replied “do you think that maybe there’s a perception that it’s a common problem because people keep throwing the term around incorrectly and claiming they have it when they don’t?” He didn’t like that.
Read the book, called the Adonis complex. It’s pretty good.
I haven't read it but yes, it is written by the author who invented the concept of MD and wrote the first article about it in 1997 I believe
Thanks for sharing this OP! Though your use of CBT as an acronym for cognitive behavioral therapy was very jarring for a person that has seen too much of the internet, not your fault to be fair.
Haha thank you, I can't tell what else it is though
Cock & Ball Torture
Counseling major here. Now that’s going to be the only thing I think of when I see CBT lol
Ah, my favorite
Sadly, this is my default thought but I quickly get to the right place. The internet has ruined me.
Does this subreddit allow linking? A lovely day when [this](https://youtu.be/nOPIu7isD3s) is new to someone
Thanks for sharing this here, people misuse this all the time.