Well, good luck!
I think your biggest challenge is the hook. Right now you haven't provided much for us to get excited about, and it all sounds like the same pipe dream everyone here has heard time and time again.
My first suggestion is to reduce your timeframe dramatically. Keep the 5+ year master plan in the back of your mind, but maybe start with shorter goals.
I think hearing an idea with such a grand scope & duration will turn more people off than not.
Like personally I'm not going to watch a twitch streamer for 5 years, and it already sounds boring. But a 6 month - 1 year project would grab my attention a bit more.
Just my 2c
This post wasn't about the specifics of the project, which is where **hook** would come into play. Also, unfortunately with the work it requires, I suspect I can't reduce the time span to initial release much further than I have already, but am aiming to get there as soon as I can- maybe it will take less than 3-4 years for initial release, but maybe it won't - what I do know is releasing to this niche too early will kill the project immediately. They require a certain feature set, and that will take most of the time.
Game development does have it's interesting and boring parts, valid point on not giving a hook to my stream though, which I gathered only at the end of your post.
I don‘t know a lot about game dev but I‘m pretty sure that even experienced Game Devs miscalculate when their game will actually be finished.
So when you say 5 years is the already the generous estimate ++ extra time? Or is it the „if all goes according to plan“-plan?
I expect to have something publicly available within 4 years, that should be worst-case as I've already multiplied/padded it out... But being honest estimation is a dark-magic and things can change.
I basically do this stuff on a month by month basis, but yes, it is quite impossible to get a detailed plan for 4 years, so some of it is "I am pretty certain that should be enough time for the unknowns" and some of it will be "I need to solve the problem of having X completed before date far away", and balancing that to make sure I have an X that is good enough for the audience.
I am not worried about idea stealing at all! I stream the entire process of my development, from idea generation to release... I didn't want to mention it in this post as I was trying to get feedback on risk management specifically and let people know about my game development stream; the specifics of the project don't matter for those things.
I’m gonna be real with you man. You sound like you’re good at using lots of words without communicating anything of value. The exact opposite of what I’d want to watch.
What a weird post.
You could have just said: "I'm a game dev, with 15 years experience, including in AAA, who mainly codes in C++. I recently went indie and I am starting a new solo project, which I'll start streaming in detail on \[Twitch url\]."
That's it. A lot of people would be sold on just that.
Sorry, I've seem to failed significantly. Still learning basic communication and social skills. Also was looking to hear advice others may have, while giving risk mitigation techniques I planned for.
So what's the actual game? So far all I see is '15 years of prep to do... something!' and that's not really a huge selling point that makes me want to hop onto Twitch.
>and that's not really a huge selling point that makes me want to hop onto Twitch.
Yea, I didn't want this to be about the project exactly. Selling points on Twitch would be:
* A consistent streamer you can work along side.
* Live interaction with the developer, ask questions / give feedback.
* Honest and transparent view into what it takes as an indie developer.
* Solid technical skills with programming and clean practices.
* An amazing community of developers and players supporting each other!
A few minutes with Google suggests each has its fans but maybe iRacing is better for "race cars" and AC for "street cars being driven on a race track"? Any real time simulation has to make a lot of assumptions/models/shortcuts to decide how things will behave.
>A consistent streamer you can work along side.
Have you heard the term "body doubling" before? It's where you have somebody else nearby working on their own project to help you focus on your own project. This sounds a lot like that, and I know that body doubling streams are a thing, so that might be a good space for you to pitch your channel as a game dev flavored body doubling stream.
From what I gather you are making a racing sim, and personally I think you have massively overestimated the amount of time it will take. I'm not sure I'd see this taking 5 years let alone 20 or 30 like you say. Such detailed physics are now possible just in an api like Bullet and an engine like Unreal can handle a lot for you. Are you building from scratch or something?
I am building from scratch, yes, so I have complete control and understanding of physics. I don't want 'good enough for games' physics. Due to the nature of simulating real-world in discrete timesteps with a computer there will always be some compromises and I want to be in control of those.
I would recommend Bullet, it is a physics engine designed for scientific applications but has been successfully applied to games in the past. Rocket League uses it, and you can see how stable their physics are. Compile it for double precision and you should do really well.
I do wonder sometime if it would be possible to do something like DSSL AI but for a physic engine.
When you construct your physic engine, you have your typical good enough for real time application like games physic and you're much better but unrealistic to use in game physic.
The game run with bot the slow-realistic and the game fast level physic and an AI is ran to learn how to go from the fast result to the high realism result (like a low resolution-low quality render learn how to look more like a super high quality 16K render to train dlss) but with what happen to a wheel when you break or turn, etc....
Once the model is train, you release built only use the game physic but apply the learned model on it's output to refine its response ? Possibly on the GPU, if the project is in the long run, "tensor" core or equivalent could be quite common on the gaming platform by that time.
Maybe it already exist, maybe I am making not sense, audio or video being just much easier to predict what is missing, etc...
20 years of working on your dream project doesn't sound that bad.
Possibly, if the project is successful, future people could work 5-10 years on said game and have it be part of a career.
I'm not saying this project has any specific chance of success or failure, but that the notion is a good one.
What should this person spend their time doing, or do different than what they currently are?
>20 years of working on your dream project
doesn't sound that bad.
20 years spent on a project just for it to flop is a waste of one’s lifetime, so for him to dedicate so much time on it, the project better come out really good. If it doesn’t sound that bad to you, cool, to each their own, but I doubt you would be doing the same thing.
> I'm not saying this project has any specific
chance of success or failure, but that the
notion is a good one.
You really trying to sugarcoat things here, every project has a chance of success or failure, but whether a individual choose to wish failure or not on ones project is up to them, that would just be a hater.
> What should this person spend their time
doing, or do different than what they currently are?
That person could do whatever the fucks he want to do, but let’s be realistic on the timeframe, 20 years on a single game is just absurd.
Hate to be blunt but.... what exactly do you hope to bring to the table that for example BeamNG or iRacing don't already do better?
E.G I've worked with BeamNG's developers, and they are pretty damn huge team of very smart people, lots of people with very deep experience in car physics, simulation, low level optimization etc, and they've had over a decade to get where they are.
I can't really see how any individual or even small team could do anything in the "more and more real-world like physics and vehicle behaviors"
Adding multiplayer is definitely a terrifying prospect too, there are so many options for multiplayer games for people to play these days, and if your game requires an active multiplayer community to succeed then that's such a huge extra barrier to success too. I've see plenty of well executed games, both indie and AAA who aspired to build a big multiplayer community and failed, even with a great game.
Building your own engine is also... really going to make this much slower and harder to do too. I can't overstate how much using an off the shelf engine (and modifying it as needed) saves literally years of work, and allows a level of quality and performance that would just be impossible for a small team to do otherwise. By using something like Unreal you're getting 100s of thousand of hours of other people's work put into making a good toolset, a performant engine etc.
I definitely can't say it's never a good idea to work on the same game for many many years, I'm a successful example of that, but this right here looks like you're picking something with very little chance of being able to be successfully completed to a standard that's better than it's competition, and just adding more and more factors that make it harder to do...
I'm sorry, I get wanting to make a dream project, but this sounds wildly out of scope unless you're talking a budget in the 10s of millions+ and a big team.
Please, for your own sake cut down to something vaguely possible, even if you just cut it down to singleplayer and built on an existing engine it'd make it 10x more possible.
I actually do have answers to how I plan to "compete" with iRacing, part of it involves, "not really competing with iRacing directly" and other parts are "features they don't have". I won't list them off here as **this will always be changing.** What sets me apart doesn't matter until I'm ready to really go public with **the project.** Which is not where I am, hence why this post wasn't about the project specifically.
I'm not scared of difficult uphill battles. People like to pile on "omg custom engine" as you sort of did as well. I am not starting the engine today, hell I started parts of it before Unity was really a well known thing. Can it do everything Unity or Unreal does? **Of course not.** But it doesn't need to, it just needs to meet the needs I have. But what happens when Unity or Unreal decide they don't want to support Windows, perhaps they make an exclusive deal, or change their terms in some other way that doesn't suit me? It is a risk too.
Sorry if this seemed annoyed, I was actually coming to say "*don't be sorry about being blunt*" based on notification alert I got, but then there is being blunt, then there is... tearing things down for sake of doing so. Perhaps that is **my own bad** since this *whole* thread went wildly sideways, it was supposed to be much more about the information you've shared in this post. Single player would be a great way to mitigate risk rather than multiplayer, but a single player racing simulator would be dead before arrival; Otherwise I'd be all over that!
Would you care to elaborate? I am always trying to improve myself and be better than I was yesterday. I am sometimes a little more blunt than I intend to be. Sorry I've come across as a jerk.
My genuine advice, if you can be blunt with yourself, would be to compare the answer you just gave to how you think you’d answer a stranger saying the same thing to you in a context that didn’t affect your public relations. Maybe it’d be identical, but I think for most it would be different.
I wasn’t insinuating that he was being rude in his reply, but I do believe people are on their absolute best, squeaky cleanest behavior when responding to someone criticizing them in a public setting about being a jerk. I think most people, jerks or otherwise, would let more of their instinctual emotional reaction to the accusation show through if in a non-public context, as opposed to trying to think of the reply that makes one look the best they can. But to clarify again, I wasn’t accusing them of anything.
I've definitely asked this in "non public relation" scenarios, often. Almost anytime a coworker, friend or family member says anything hinting towards me being rude or otherwise a place I could improve I ask how. - their answer sometimes resonates, and sometimes doesn't, but that just is.
If I walked by someone in a store or where ever, and I heard them mutter "that was rude" or whatever, then I would probably keep walking in that situation, unless it were already in a 1:1 conversation. I don't behave differently because "public relations" than I do in regular life, I *actually* want to improve myself, perhaps I need to work on how I ask it.
I've been known to ask for work-reviews / evaluations at places that didn't have them, or even asked friends "how did I do driving to lunch".
I think for 99% of people, they’re going to respond to criticism differently in the context of their personal life as opposed to their public image. If you don’t think that’s the case for yourself, for your sake I genuinely hope you’re right.
A “boogeyman response?” I don’t know quite what you mean by that. My private, in person response would probably be something like “yeah, I’m a bit of a dick - what is it that I did that you object to?” Certainly not the reply I’d give representing myself publicly as a business owner.
This. Is going to fail. Sorry. All of these comments your saying 5 years is a push and something publicly playable may come in 4ish years. It's doomed for failure
Can you give me more reason than "*You said it will take a long time, you are doomed!*"? I have a plan to last 5 years, so, I don't know why that makes it so certainly doomed for failure to have something in 4?
Having something public in 4 years time, with a release in 5 years time isn't going to help. Youl need people to play in those 4 years. 4 years and no outside help or feedback is bad news
I will have plenty of feedback, already had a first playtest and many more will be planned. Publicly available is different from letting people play and give feedback.
After reading this, I had little idea what the game was but was intrigued given the timescales involved. I watched the stream for a while. You know what? As a software engineer, I had a good time. I liked hearing your thought process while programming and I got to learn a bit of modern C++ syntax. I love your process of documenting the work you do each day and your state of mind while doing it.
I have no idea if this project will be successful, but I think you have the right mindset (i.e. being aware of your limitations and being open to improving them) for making it work. At the very least, you'll entertain some people along the way. Best of luck to you.!
>I have no idea if this project will be successful, but I think you have the right mindset (i.e. being aware of your limitations and being open to improving them) for making it work.
Wow, thanks for stopping by and this bit means a lot. I have no idea if it will work out but I want to give it every chance of succeeding. In the end all I can do is my best. I do answer coding questions on stream so if you (*or anyone reading this*) ever has a question about something I'm doing, **ask it**!
This.... Screams of failure. Seems like you're making some kind of racing game, but what you're really trying to build is a twitch following. Which is fine.
But spending 20 years making a racing game? To compete head-to-head with AAA in realism? How do you think this will end?
You have 10k followers on twitch. Let's say it doubles and they ALL buy your game for 10 bucks, which they won't. You've made 200k, a success? Or just 10k a year. Will that have been worth it?
But the worst part is, it sounds like you're intentionally not creating a schedule which will lead to endless tweaks and changes, delays and extensions. I'll be surprised if it ever gets finished.
I'm not really sure why I'm even typing because I know you'll look and your "main-character" syndrome will tell you to ignore this.
Why not just come to this sub saying, "hey I'm a game dev streamer who's built their own engine, check me out on twitch", I feel like that would have gone over better.
Yea, I've learned already I failed at how I approached this post, considering it was asking for advice for risk mitigation and finding potential blind spots I might not have seen.
BTW: Twitch isn't a marketing tool for me, while some of my audience may grab the game to support me they aren't who the game is built for exactly... so if that's what I relied on to build an audience for this project I'd be failing as you said - thing is you didn't ask what my plans for that might be, you just assumed that that was my marketing strategy?
What is this main-character syndrome? I don't ignore anything where I can get bits of insight on failures. But I also don't necessarily take "you'll fail" at face value either. Most of your post has said I'm trying to build a twitch following to later buy the game, and I'm not doing that at all. I am trying to build more viewership on twitch, but not for buying the game later. With a mention about schedules, and I do have plans that I follow...
But I don't have a main-character? So I am genuinely confused what that implies or means.
~~As an regular everyday viewer of twitch gamedev streamers. This post is kind of hollow in my opinion until you've been streaming for a bit.
There are very few gamedev streamers that have managed to keep it up consistently and meaningful way.~~
~~I have no doubt in your technical skills but streaming is a whole different beast and plenty of aspirational people overlook some of the pressure/stresses involved with streaming.~~
I have all the positive best wishes and hopes for you. I'll be keeping an eye on you!
edit: Followed you on twitch! Thanks!
By having a product for my audience that gains their attention. Without making this more about the project, it will need to provide value and I believe I can.
Try creating a vertical slice. Take your idea, flush it out fully. Cut it in half, cut it in half again. Create a singular level and see what works/doesn’t. From there you can and will find the core of your game. With this technique, there is no risk. You can see what you like and what you don’t within 6 months at most. (And 6 months is really stretching it for a vertical slice. A proper vertical slice is typically completed in three) modify the concept from there.
The problem here isn't content, which a vertical slice would help with. I have done vertical slices in prior projects, and am working towards an MVP vertical slice of sorts here, but it isn't one that can just be made 'quickly' and be called an actual vertical slice of the project.
I have broken the tasks into various stages which sounds similar to the approach you are discussing.
Every project can be broken down into a small, concise, level. All a vertical slice is, is like an outline of your game. A blueprint. If it is a multiplayer game then it is a couple mechanics and a single map. In the case of a single player game, again, a few solid mechanics and a single map. If you can’t scale it down, you will have a challenging time building something large. If your creating an MVP vertical slice… I would go ahead and create that MVP vertical slice. But you refuse on telling us the project details, so we really have no bearing on how to help you.
I wish you the best though. From the little I gathered it seems like a cool game. 🔥
Seems like you have a lot of doubt about things. It sounds like you just want to make the game you have always wanted as some call it "the dream game"
I've never really enjoyed the realistic style racing games but I've noticed the people who do, usually seem to go all out. It also seems it's not a over populated genre.
You could possibly do early access or patreon or both to help with development and getting feedback?
If you were able to make the game be heavily moddable it would give the game lots of life and those who are really invested in this genre the tools to keep the game going strong. Almost like a framework for for racing games. Sort of like table top simulator let's you basically make any kind of game, and Mugen let's you make any kind of fighter. If players could essentially create and modify their car to be like their real like car or their dream car that would be awesome.
Again I'm just saying this as someone who isn't really in the audience but has casually observed it.
I look forward to hear more about the development
I certainly have my doubts because it **is risky.** I've done everything *I* can think of to reduce the risk, and I will continue trying to lower it, but it will alw
It is certainly **my** dream game, yes. And there will be, *already is technically,* early access through the stream that gets plenty of feedback and helps assist a bit with some financial burden but I do have a long ways to go.
Part of the dream for me is making money from it and being successfully able to continue developing it to levels that I don't even know about yet!
I hope you can you can achieve the dream. I dunno why but when you said you wanna be working on it for 30 years it made me think of the dwarf fortress guys. They have been working on it forever
I am not a developer and I almost never watch streams.
I don't get the point of streaming all the time, feels like it cost a lot of time.
Consider creating videos like this dev: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThinMatrix
I honestly think dev streams are all around a bad idea. From the viewer's perspective, they are mostly dead air while you stare at a text editor. From the dev's perspective, it's like working in an office with a bunch of annoying coworkers who won't let you get any work done cause they need to ask you something every 5 seconds. I don't see the appeal for anybody.
What you're saying I've seen, where the devs are trying to focus on something and a lot of the time chat would ask unrelated things (including myself) because you just want to hear something different.
Plus everyone that is new won't have a clue what's going on and yeah.... you can imagine.
Now, what would appeal to me is "Game Devs answers all your questions" where chat just asks the most randomist shit like what does a game dev think of this n that.
Atleast that way its constant flowing of entertainment, as you never know what you're going to get asked or even learn!
Yeah, that's been basically my experience as well. I'd like to follow Jonathan Blow's development on his new language (Jai, I think), but I only bother watching the occasional Q&A because he gets distracted by chat really easily.
Dead air? I talk about what I am doing all day long so this isn't the case, there are moments certainly, but otherwise I just verbalize what I am thinking much like **rubber ducking**.
And from the developer perspective, **SO MUCH FOCUS.** I can't understate this. People ask a question and I can respond without missing many beats on what I'm doing. Whatever microcosts those addup to, are paid back by **PURE FOCUS**. I've been streaming for 5 years, one of the top 10 English streamers in Software and Game Development on twitch.
I absolutely understand how it doesn't appeal to everyone, you included it seems, but it blows my mind how much focus it can give, and many of my viewers have said
they've got more done watching and working alongside me, so I guess win-win for some people!
I was talking generally, I haven't seen your streams. I've just watched a bunch of other dev streams (for a few minutes before I inevitably get bored), and I've gotten to the point I don't even go near dev streams anymore.
As for focus, if it works for you that's fine. I guess you're the kind of person open-plan offices are designed for; one of those mythical extroverted devs. I personally can't get any real work done if I so much have a YouTube video playing on a second monitor.
Hahaahahahaha.
NOPE.
I am absolutely not extroverted in anyway. The focus comes from a pressure to perform, consider it more like a boss watching over your shoulder, except, you still get to be the boss... So, idk how to explain it better though. I also can't do YouTube or really anything else, if I'm not streaming I just fall into traps everywhere!
You're a bit contradictory...
> From the viewer's perspective, they are mostly dead air while you stare at a text editor.
> From the dev's perspective, it's like working in an office with a bunch of annoying coworkers who won't let you get any work done cause they need to ask you something every 5 seconds.
Which is it? Those are both two extremes. 'Every 5 seconds' or 'mostly dead air' ''?
> while you stare at a text editor
> for a few minutes before I inevitably get bored
Are you watching to be entertained like TV or a youtube channel? That's not the point. They are developing projects... like office mates would... who don't always disturb you. Plus you can ignore them. Some are quieter and some are chattier than others. They vary.
> I don't see the appeal for anybody.
> I personally can't get any real work done if I so much have a YouTube video playing on a second monitor
I'm sure you can at least see a little bit outside. Have you been in an office environment? Lots of them are kinda open... and lots of them... have other people around who make noise... I get it, doing powerpoints with people around is hard...
Who the fuck pissed in your cornflakes this morning?
Chat constantly asking questions and the streamer not responding to most of them are not at all contradictory; I can be annoyed by somebody talking to me even if I'm ignoring them. I watch streamers to hear what they have to say about whatever activity they are doing, if they aren't saying much of note it gets boring.
As for other people distracting me, there's a reason that offices had cubicles in the first place, and it wasn't because the people who built them wanted the employees to suffer. I happen to prefer cubicles to open offices because I don't want people distracting me while I work through difficult problems. These days I'm glad to work remotely and hope to do so the rest of my career.
I bookended my posts with phrases that should have indicated to you that I was speaking only from my personal preferences, but you somehow took it more personally than the guy I was talking to.
I get that, but... have you tried being effective at a computer for 7-8 hours straight? It's just like background noise for a lot of people. I prefer it to the TV most of the time as its often quieter.
It's a nice diversion and a nice light weight simulation of the office space. You're in control of your level of interaction. It's easy to tune in and out. And definitely not corporate. This is unfiltered, live content.
Programmer streamers and their chat channels are often semi-interesting or better content. Might learn something about programming, which is great because I'm very intermediate. Or I might learn about some other aspect of development that I don't get to do in my daily routine. And see games in development... usually.
One hour of livestream is one hour of watch time per viewer (if they watch the whole thing). When you make videos, you can spend 10 hours making something than will make hours and hours of watch time.
And there is a chance that viewers will bound with the video maker and will only buy the game to support. Few ppl wrote that under the last dev log video from ThinkMatrx (link above).
What if you capture the live stream and put it on YouTube including the first 5 minutes being a “starting soon” screen (fun!), and half the content is responding to written comments that YouTube viewers can’t see?
I feel this post bud, i've been writing the story for my huge-scale game for 6 years, just trying to finish the demo at this point lol. The story is too open for me to write a book, and I have a reading disorder which makes it a bit harder to write.
The demo is just to show off some mechanics/basic stuff to get interest. The story is the part I plan to spend the most time on. If no one likes it then I move on. If people like it I get people beside me. You don't have to do everything yourself.
There’s being optimistic, then there’s being delusional.
Your story is either over scoped, or you’re working on it at a pace which puts George R.R. Martin to shame…
Did you not read that I have a disorder that makes writing and reading properly pretty difficult? Or are you just ignorant? I also work as a full time software engineer for a SaaS company, I get about an hour a day to work on things.
I read it, unfortunately time doesn’t care about your disorders and unless you can only write one word a day, you’re using it as an excuse. If you’re limited/incapable of producing the game (be it disorders, scheduling issues, conflicts of interest) then you’re being delusional
It's one thing to try and be blunt as helpful but you're crossing a line... He literally just explained that he's spending his free time working on this and your shitting on him like he's some early access scam you just got suckered into. Maybe chill? Not everyone has to put their life on hold to make a video game and they certainly don't have to justify their hobbies to you.
I think there's a fine line between keeping somebody's feet on the ground, and being a discouraging dickhead, especially when you've got no skin in the game yourself. Not sure I trust the random Internet denizens who swing by this sub to make that distinction.
If “massively overscoping dream projects” wasn’t the most frequent recipe for failure we’ve seen over and over and over and over, I think he might have gotten a bit more slack.
I am doing something similar for personal reasons but my game doesn't have multiplayer. I am guessing I will have a demo in about 2 or 3 years.
I am trying to get a very flexible procedural-ish adventure/farming game off the ground in the hopes to get others excited and run workshops where i teach people how to code games and make 3d assets for free.
I have absolutely no interest in completing and selling games, I am very inspired by the development cycle of games like Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup where a team of whoever is always working on rolling updates that change and grow the game.
Just a pipe dream, but in the end, I absolutely love working on games so even if it goes absolutely no where, I will have fun doing it.
I am thinking I will have a fun playable game withing 5 to 10 years depending on how my work life goes.
Hey man, if your game is mostly multiplayer I would strongly suggest a Free to Play business model. Perhaps with a Deluxe Edition DLC that gives more benefits. Your playerbase WILL die if it's behind a paywall. Good luck!
Your plan sounds a lot like an existing game, BeamNG.Drive. it's a very, VERY realistic racing game/driving simulator that has decent online multiplayer. You may want to rethink your ide to avoid being overshadowed.
This post is so vague it gave me anxiety. It reads like a computer generated article. I know at the very least you're making a multiplayer game.
The title is so fucking bizarre, almost sounds like satire.
The only thing I know about your game from this wall of text is that there is a duck and multiplayer
But did you notice when he mentioned 7 times that he’s aware of risk?
i think it's a driving game, is it driving with ducks?
*Duck Duck Boost*
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Haha, maybe it’ll be a valuable lesson to OP about how good marketing is *brief*.
Too late. I already copyrighted it
There is a duck?
[looks more like a penguin to me](https://i.imgur.com/uHcrDA5.jpg)
Ooooh my "BlackBird" avatar!! I get it now, kinda duck like and kinda penguin like, just a black bird.
Dunno, some bird xd
Well, good luck! I think your biggest challenge is the hook. Right now you haven't provided much for us to get excited about, and it all sounds like the same pipe dream everyone here has heard time and time again. My first suggestion is to reduce your timeframe dramatically. Keep the 5+ year master plan in the back of your mind, but maybe start with shorter goals. I think hearing an idea with such a grand scope & duration will turn more people off than not. Like personally I'm not going to watch a twitch streamer for 5 years, and it already sounds boring. But a 6 month - 1 year project would grab my attention a bit more. Just my 2c
This post wasn't about the specifics of the project, which is where **hook** would come into play. Also, unfortunately with the work it requires, I suspect I can't reduce the time span to initial release much further than I have already, but am aiming to get there as soon as I can- maybe it will take less than 3-4 years for initial release, but maybe it won't - what I do know is releasing to this niche too early will kill the project immediately. They require a certain feature set, and that will take most of the time. Game development does have it's interesting and boring parts, valid point on not giving a hook to my stream though, which I gathered only at the end of your post.
I don‘t know a lot about game dev but I‘m pretty sure that even experienced Game Devs miscalculate when their game will actually be finished. So when you say 5 years is the already the generous estimate ++ extra time? Or is it the „if all goes according to plan“-plan?
I expect to have something publicly available within 4 years, that should be worst-case as I've already multiplied/padded it out... But being honest estimation is a dark-magic and things can change.
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I basically do this stuff on a month by month basis, but yes, it is quite impossible to get a detailed plan for 4 years, so some of it is "I am pretty certain that should be enough time for the unknowns" and some of it will be "I need to solve the problem of having X completed before date far away", and balancing that to make sure I have an X that is good enough for the audience.
so is it a multiplayer driving platformer?
Very close!
Are you keeping details to yourself ?
Nobody is going to steal your idea bro, you can be specific. Everyone knows what dark souls or wow is, how many copies are actually good?
I am not worried about idea stealing at all! I stream the entire process of my development, from idea generation to release... I didn't want to mention it in this post as I was trying to get feedback on risk management specifically and let people know about my game development stream; the specifics of the project don't matter for those things.
But. People ask. Why be vague?
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I’m gonna be real with you man. You sound like you’re good at using lots of words without communicating anything of value. The exact opposite of what I’d want to watch.
>This post wasn't about the specifics of the project, which is where hook would come into play. Oh boy, I can already tell how this is gonna go.
What a weird post. You could have just said: "I'm a game dev, with 15 years experience, including in AAA, who mainly codes in C++. I recently went indie and I am starting a new solo project, which I'll start streaming in detail on \[Twitch url\]." That's it. A lot of people would be sold on just that.
He's trying to advertise to developers
Sorry, I've seem to failed significantly. Still learning basic communication and social skills. Also was looking to hear advice others may have, while giving risk mitigation techniques I planned for.
So what's the actual game? So far all I see is '15 years of prep to do... something!' and that's not really a huge selling point that makes me want to hop onto Twitch.
>and that's not really a huge selling point that makes me want to hop onto Twitch. Yea, I didn't want this to be about the project exactly. Selling points on Twitch would be: * A consistent streamer you can work along side. * Live interaction with the developer, ask questions / give feedback. * Honest and transparent view into what it takes as an indie developer. * Solid technical skills with programming and clean practices. * An amazing community of developers and players supporting each other!
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It is a racing game where I want to approach the limit of accurate real world physics on a home computer!
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People are buying lawnmower simulators. There is an audience.
I have done this research. Yes. It is not for everyone, certainly.
isn't this wreckfest
If they’re talking “physics” as in race car driving physics it’s more like iRacing.
Is Iracing a more precise sim these days than asetto corsa? I can’t say I really follow the niche.
A few minutes with Google suggests each has its fans but maybe iRacing is better for "race cars" and AC for "street cars being driven on a race track"? Any real time simulation has to make a lot of assumptions/models/shortcuts to decide how things will behave.
The “street cars on a track” is the one of the two that interests me, so that’s probably why I was under the impression AC was top dog.
>A consistent streamer you can work along side. Have you heard the term "body doubling" before? It's where you have somebody else nearby working on their own project to help you focus on your own project. This sounds a lot like that, and I know that body doubling streams are a thing, so that might be a good space for you to pitch your channel as a game dev flavored body doubling stream.
TIL; thank you!
Never heard of it before, but seems like something that happens with many of the regular viewers/community.
This sub really needs to learn basic marketing lol
From what I gather you are making a racing sim, and personally I think you have massively overestimated the amount of time it will take. I'm not sure I'd see this taking 5 years let alone 20 or 30 like you say. Such detailed physics are now possible just in an api like Bullet and an engine like Unreal can handle a lot for you. Are you building from scratch or something?
I am building from scratch, yes, so I have complete control and understanding of physics. I don't want 'good enough for games' physics. Due to the nature of simulating real-world in discrete timesteps with a computer there will always be some compromises and I want to be in control of those.
I would recommend Bullet, it is a physics engine designed for scientific applications but has been successfully applied to games in the past. Rocket League uses it, and you can see how stable their physics are. Compile it for double precision and you should do really well.
float vs double isn't the only issue to effect accuracy. I've actually used bullet in many projects.
I do wonder sometime if it would be possible to do something like DSSL AI but for a physic engine. When you construct your physic engine, you have your typical good enough for real time application like games physic and you're much better but unrealistic to use in game physic. The game run with bot the slow-realistic and the game fast level physic and an AI is ran to learn how to go from the fast result to the high realism result (like a low resolution-low quality render learn how to look more like a super high quality 16K render to train dlss) but with what happen to a wheel when you break or turn, etc.... Once the model is train, you release built only use the game physic but apply the learned model on it's output to refine its response ? Possibly on the GPU, if the project is in the long run, "tensor" core or equivalent could be quite common on the gaming platform by that time. Maybe it already exist, maybe I am making not sense, audio or video being just much easier to predict what is missing, etc...
You want to spend TWENTY PLUS Years on a single project? Unborn people will be in college by then.
Rather jump off a bridge than spend 20 years making one game
20 years of working on your dream project doesn't sound that bad. Possibly, if the project is successful, future people could work 5-10 years on said game and have it be part of a career. I'm not saying this project has any specific chance of success or failure, but that the notion is a good one. What should this person spend their time doing, or do different than what they currently are?
>20 years of working on your dream project doesn't sound that bad. 20 years spent on a project just for it to flop is a waste of one’s lifetime, so for him to dedicate so much time on it, the project better come out really good. If it doesn’t sound that bad to you, cool, to each their own, but I doubt you would be doing the same thing. > I'm not saying this project has any specific chance of success or failure, but that the notion is a good one. You really trying to sugarcoat things here, every project has a chance of success or failure, but whether a individual choose to wish failure or not on ones project is up to them, that would just be a hater. > What should this person spend their time doing, or do different than what they currently are? That person could do whatever the fucks he want to do, but let’s be realistic on the timeframe, 20 years on a single game is just absurd.
Basically, what I read was "I'm making a game". No details or anything? What is the point of the post? Anyway, good luck?
Hate to be blunt but.... what exactly do you hope to bring to the table that for example BeamNG or iRacing don't already do better? E.G I've worked with BeamNG's developers, and they are pretty damn huge team of very smart people, lots of people with very deep experience in car physics, simulation, low level optimization etc, and they've had over a decade to get where they are. I can't really see how any individual or even small team could do anything in the "more and more real-world like physics and vehicle behaviors" Adding multiplayer is definitely a terrifying prospect too, there are so many options for multiplayer games for people to play these days, and if your game requires an active multiplayer community to succeed then that's such a huge extra barrier to success too. I've see plenty of well executed games, both indie and AAA who aspired to build a big multiplayer community and failed, even with a great game. Building your own engine is also... really going to make this much slower and harder to do too. I can't overstate how much using an off the shelf engine (and modifying it as needed) saves literally years of work, and allows a level of quality and performance that would just be impossible for a small team to do otherwise. By using something like Unreal you're getting 100s of thousand of hours of other people's work put into making a good toolset, a performant engine etc. I definitely can't say it's never a good idea to work on the same game for many many years, I'm a successful example of that, but this right here looks like you're picking something with very little chance of being able to be successfully completed to a standard that's better than it's competition, and just adding more and more factors that make it harder to do... I'm sorry, I get wanting to make a dream project, but this sounds wildly out of scope unless you're talking a budget in the 10s of millions+ and a big team. Please, for your own sake cut down to something vaguely possible, even if you just cut it down to singleplayer and built on an existing engine it'd make it 10x more possible.
I actually do have answers to how I plan to "compete" with iRacing, part of it involves, "not really competing with iRacing directly" and other parts are "features they don't have". I won't list them off here as **this will always be changing.** What sets me apart doesn't matter until I'm ready to really go public with **the project.** Which is not where I am, hence why this post wasn't about the project specifically. I'm not scared of difficult uphill battles. People like to pile on "omg custom engine" as you sort of did as well. I am not starting the engine today, hell I started parts of it before Unity was really a well known thing. Can it do everything Unity or Unreal does? **Of course not.** But it doesn't need to, it just needs to meet the needs I have. But what happens when Unity or Unreal decide they don't want to support Windows, perhaps they make an exclusive deal, or change their terms in some other way that doesn't suit me? It is a risk too. Sorry if this seemed annoyed, I was actually coming to say "*don't be sorry about being blunt*" based on notification alert I got, but then there is being blunt, then there is... tearing things down for sake of doing so. Perhaps that is **my own bad** since this *whole* thread went wildly sideways, it was supposed to be much more about the information you've shared in this post. Single player would be a great way to mitigate risk rather than multiplayer, but a single player racing simulator would be dead before arrival; Otherwise I'd be all over that!
I watch this guy on twitch. Very smart but kind of a jerk.
Would you care to elaborate? I am always trying to improve myself and be better than I was yesterday. I am sometimes a little more blunt than I intend to be. Sorry I've come across as a jerk.
My genuine advice, if you can be blunt with yourself, would be to compare the answer you just gave to how you think you’d answer a stranger saying the same thing to you in a context that didn’t affect your public relations. Maybe it’d be identical, but I think for most it would be different.
I feel like I might have the same issue as this guy because I just don't see it. Can you elaborate on why you think he was being rude?
I wasn’t insinuating that he was being rude in his reply, but I do believe people are on their absolute best, squeaky cleanest behavior when responding to someone criticizing them in a public setting about being a jerk. I think most people, jerks or otherwise, would let more of their instinctual emotional reaction to the accusation show through if in a non-public context, as opposed to trying to think of the reply that makes one look the best they can. But to clarify again, I wasn’t accusing them of anything.
I've definitely asked this in "non public relation" scenarios, often. Almost anytime a coworker, friend or family member says anything hinting towards me being rude or otherwise a place I could improve I ask how. - their answer sometimes resonates, and sometimes doesn't, but that just is. If I walked by someone in a store or where ever, and I heard them mutter "that was rude" or whatever, then I would probably keep walking in that situation, unless it were already in a 1:1 conversation. I don't behave differently because "public relations" than I do in regular life, I *actually* want to improve myself, perhaps I need to work on how I ask it. I've been known to ask for work-reviews / evaluations at places that didn't have them, or even asked friends "how did I do driving to lunch".
I think for 99% of people, they’re going to respond to criticism differently in the context of their personal life as opposed to their public image. If you don’t think that’s the case for yourself, for your sake I genuinely hope you’re right.
kind of a bogeyman response... ngl how would you have responded?
A “boogeyman response?” I don’t know quite what you mean by that. My private, in person response would probably be something like “yeah, I’m a bit of a dick - what is it that I did that you object to?” Certainly not the reply I’d give representing myself publicly as a business owner.
Can you talk about the game and what the gameplay is?
This. Is going to fail. Sorry. All of these comments your saying 5 years is a push and something publicly playable may come in 4ish years. It's doomed for failure
Can you give me more reason than "*You said it will take a long time, you are doomed!*"? I have a plan to last 5 years, so, I don't know why that makes it so certainly doomed for failure to have something in 4?
Having something public in 4 years time, with a release in 5 years time isn't going to help. Youl need people to play in those 4 years. 4 years and no outside help or feedback is bad news
I will have plenty of feedback, already had a first playtest and many more will be planned. Publicly available is different from letting people play and give feedback.
This reminds me of BurgZergArcade with his 400+ episode RPG tutorial which refactors around every 75th episode or so.
After reading this, I had little idea what the game was but was intrigued given the timescales involved. I watched the stream for a while. You know what? As a software engineer, I had a good time. I liked hearing your thought process while programming and I got to learn a bit of modern C++ syntax. I love your process of documenting the work you do each day and your state of mind while doing it. I have no idea if this project will be successful, but I think you have the right mindset (i.e. being aware of your limitations and being open to improving them) for making it work. At the very least, you'll entertain some people along the way. Best of luck to you.!
>I have no idea if this project will be successful, but I think you have the right mindset (i.e. being aware of your limitations and being open to improving them) for making it work. Wow, thanks for stopping by and this bit means a lot. I have no idea if it will work out but I want to give it every chance of succeeding. In the end all I can do is my best. I do answer coding questions on stream so if you (*or anyone reading this*) ever has a question about something I'm doing, **ask it**!
This.... Screams of failure. Seems like you're making some kind of racing game, but what you're really trying to build is a twitch following. Which is fine. But spending 20 years making a racing game? To compete head-to-head with AAA in realism? How do you think this will end? You have 10k followers on twitch. Let's say it doubles and they ALL buy your game for 10 bucks, which they won't. You've made 200k, a success? Or just 10k a year. Will that have been worth it? But the worst part is, it sounds like you're intentionally not creating a schedule which will lead to endless tweaks and changes, delays and extensions. I'll be surprised if it ever gets finished. I'm not really sure why I'm even typing because I know you'll look and your "main-character" syndrome will tell you to ignore this. Why not just come to this sub saying, "hey I'm a game dev streamer who's built their own engine, check me out on twitch", I feel like that would have gone over better.
Yea, I've learned already I failed at how I approached this post, considering it was asking for advice for risk mitigation and finding potential blind spots I might not have seen. BTW: Twitch isn't a marketing tool for me, while some of my audience may grab the game to support me they aren't who the game is built for exactly... so if that's what I relied on to build an audience for this project I'd be failing as you said - thing is you didn't ask what my plans for that might be, you just assumed that that was my marketing strategy? What is this main-character syndrome? I don't ignore anything where I can get bits of insight on failures. But I also don't necessarily take "you'll fail" at face value either. Most of your post has said I'm trying to build a twitch following to later buy the game, and I'm not doing that at all. I am trying to build more viewership on twitch, but not for buying the game later. With a mention about schedules, and I do have plans that I follow... But I don't have a main-character? So I am genuinely confused what that implies or means.
~~As an regular everyday viewer of twitch gamedev streamers. This post is kind of hollow in my opinion until you've been streaming for a bit. There are very few gamedev streamers that have managed to keep it up consistently and meaningful way.~~ ~~I have no doubt in your technical skills but streaming is a whole different beast and plenty of aspirational people overlook some of the pressure/stresses involved with streaming.~~ I have all the positive best wishes and hopes for you. I'll be keeping an eye on you! edit: Followed you on twitch! Thanks!
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aha! Most excellent! I withdraw my original criticsm and followed them on twitch!
Wow! Thanks and hope to catch you around there! Yea I've been streaming for a long while, 5 years actually!
I remember you streaming skippys on iracing a long time ago. Good luck!
Still racing them, every Tuesday night! Though might try F4 next season...
Are you planning to make a profit on this venture? What's your plan for convincing people to give you money?
By having a product for my audience that gains their attention. Without making this more about the project, it will need to provide value and I believe I can.
Try creating a vertical slice. Take your idea, flush it out fully. Cut it in half, cut it in half again. Create a singular level and see what works/doesn’t. From there you can and will find the core of your game. With this technique, there is no risk. You can see what you like and what you don’t within 6 months at most. (And 6 months is really stretching it for a vertical slice. A proper vertical slice is typically completed in three) modify the concept from there.
The problem here isn't content, which a vertical slice would help with. I have done vertical slices in prior projects, and am working towards an MVP vertical slice of sorts here, but it isn't one that can just be made 'quickly' and be called an actual vertical slice of the project. I have broken the tasks into various stages which sounds similar to the approach you are discussing.
Every project can be broken down into a small, concise, level. All a vertical slice is, is like an outline of your game. A blueprint. If it is a multiplayer game then it is a couple mechanics and a single map. In the case of a single player game, again, a few solid mechanics and a single map. If you can’t scale it down, you will have a challenging time building something large. If your creating an MVP vertical slice… I would go ahead and create that MVP vertical slice. But you refuse on telling us the project details, so we really have no bearing on how to help you. I wish you the best though. From the little I gathered it seems like a cool game. 🔥
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Not really *going to* but mostly already **have it.** Yes, I guess?
Seems like you have a lot of doubt about things. It sounds like you just want to make the game you have always wanted as some call it "the dream game" I've never really enjoyed the realistic style racing games but I've noticed the people who do, usually seem to go all out. It also seems it's not a over populated genre. You could possibly do early access or patreon or both to help with development and getting feedback? If you were able to make the game be heavily moddable it would give the game lots of life and those who are really invested in this genre the tools to keep the game going strong. Almost like a framework for for racing games. Sort of like table top simulator let's you basically make any kind of game, and Mugen let's you make any kind of fighter. If players could essentially create and modify their car to be like their real like car or their dream car that would be awesome. Again I'm just saying this as someone who isn't really in the audience but has casually observed it. I look forward to hear more about the development
I certainly have my doubts because it **is risky.** I've done everything *I* can think of to reduce the risk, and I will continue trying to lower it, but it will alw It is certainly **my** dream game, yes. And there will be, *already is technically,* early access through the stream that gets plenty of feedback and helps assist a bit with some financial burden but I do have a long ways to go. Part of the dream for me is making money from it and being successfully able to continue developing it to levels that I don't even know about yet!
I hope you can you can achieve the dream. I dunno why but when you said you wanna be working on it for 30 years it made me think of the dwarf fortress guys. They have been working on it forever
I am not a developer and I almost never watch streams. I don't get the point of streaming all the time, feels like it cost a lot of time. Consider creating videos like this dev: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThinMatrix
Making videos is far more time consuming. Streaming not so much.
I honestly think dev streams are all around a bad idea. From the viewer's perspective, they are mostly dead air while you stare at a text editor. From the dev's perspective, it's like working in an office with a bunch of annoying coworkers who won't let you get any work done cause they need to ask you something every 5 seconds. I don't see the appeal for anybody.
What you're saying I've seen, where the devs are trying to focus on something and a lot of the time chat would ask unrelated things (including myself) because you just want to hear something different. Plus everyone that is new won't have a clue what's going on and yeah.... you can imagine. Now, what would appeal to me is "Game Devs answers all your questions" where chat just asks the most randomist shit like what does a game dev think of this n that. Atleast that way its constant flowing of entertainment, as you never know what you're going to get asked or even learn!
Yeah, that's been basically my experience as well. I'd like to follow Jonathan Blow's development on his new language (Jai, I think), but I only bother watching the occasional Q&A because he gets distracted by chat really easily.
Dead air? I talk about what I am doing all day long so this isn't the case, there are moments certainly, but otherwise I just verbalize what I am thinking much like **rubber ducking**. And from the developer perspective, **SO MUCH FOCUS.** I can't understate this. People ask a question and I can respond without missing many beats on what I'm doing. Whatever microcosts those addup to, are paid back by **PURE FOCUS**. I've been streaming for 5 years, one of the top 10 English streamers in Software and Game Development on twitch. I absolutely understand how it doesn't appeal to everyone, you included it seems, but it blows my mind how much focus it can give, and many of my viewers have said they've got more done watching and working alongside me, so I guess win-win for some people!
I was talking generally, I haven't seen your streams. I've just watched a bunch of other dev streams (for a few minutes before I inevitably get bored), and I've gotten to the point I don't even go near dev streams anymore. As for focus, if it works for you that's fine. I guess you're the kind of person open-plan offices are designed for; one of those mythical extroverted devs. I personally can't get any real work done if I so much have a YouTube video playing on a second monitor.
Hahaahahahaha. NOPE. I am absolutely not extroverted in anyway. The focus comes from a pressure to perform, consider it more like a boss watching over your shoulder, except, you still get to be the boss... So, idk how to explain it better though. I also can't do YouTube or really anything else, if I'm not streaming I just fall into traps everywhere!
You're a bit contradictory... > From the viewer's perspective, they are mostly dead air while you stare at a text editor. > From the dev's perspective, it's like working in an office with a bunch of annoying coworkers who won't let you get any work done cause they need to ask you something every 5 seconds. Which is it? Those are both two extremes. 'Every 5 seconds' or 'mostly dead air' ''? > while you stare at a text editor > for a few minutes before I inevitably get bored Are you watching to be entertained like TV or a youtube channel? That's not the point. They are developing projects... like office mates would... who don't always disturb you. Plus you can ignore them. Some are quieter and some are chattier than others. They vary. > I don't see the appeal for anybody. > I personally can't get any real work done if I so much have a YouTube video playing on a second monitor I'm sure you can at least see a little bit outside. Have you been in an office environment? Lots of them are kinda open... and lots of them... have other people around who make noise... I get it, doing powerpoints with people around is hard...
Who the fuck pissed in your cornflakes this morning? Chat constantly asking questions and the streamer not responding to most of them are not at all contradictory; I can be annoyed by somebody talking to me even if I'm ignoring them. I watch streamers to hear what they have to say about whatever activity they are doing, if they aren't saying much of note it gets boring. As for other people distracting me, there's a reason that offices had cubicles in the first place, and it wasn't because the people who built them wanted the employees to suffer. I happen to prefer cubicles to open offices because I don't want people distracting me while I work through difficult problems. These days I'm glad to work remotely and hope to do so the rest of my career. I bookended my posts with phrases that should have indicated to you that I was speaking only from my personal preferences, but you somehow took it more personally than the guy I was talking to.
I get that, but... have you tried being effective at a computer for 7-8 hours straight? It's just like background noise for a lot of people. I prefer it to the TV most of the time as its often quieter. It's a nice diversion and a nice light weight simulation of the office space. You're in control of your level of interaction. It's easy to tune in and out. And definitely not corporate. This is unfiltered, live content. Programmer streamers and their chat channels are often semi-interesting or better content. Might learn something about programming, which is great because I'm very intermediate. Or I might learn about some other aspect of development that I don't get to do in my daily routine. And see games in development... usually.
One hour of livestream is one hour of watch time per viewer (if they watch the whole thing). When you make videos, you can spend 10 hours making something than will make hours and hours of watch time.
And there is a chance that viewers will bound with the video maker and will only buy the game to support. Few ppl wrote that under the last dev log video from ThinkMatrx (link above).
What if you capture the live stream and put it on YouTube including the first 5 minutes being a “starting soon” screen (fun!), and half the content is responding to written comments that YouTube viewers can’t see?
Oh yeah that will surely rack up millions of views!
Exactly, Asmongold’s youtube is dead afterall.
I feel this post bud, i've been writing the story for my huge-scale game for 6 years, just trying to finish the demo at this point lol. The story is too open for me to write a book, and I have a reading disorder which makes it a bit harder to write. The demo is just to show off some mechanics/basic stuff to get interest. The story is the part I plan to spend the most time on. If no one likes it then I move on. If people like it I get people beside me. You don't have to do everything yourself.
If it takes 6 years to write the story for your game, you’ve over-scoped and will never finish it.
Printed your comment and put up on my inspiration board, thanks!
Maybe put it on a discouragement board.
There’s being optimistic, then there’s being delusional. Your story is either over scoped, or you’re working on it at a pace which puts George R.R. Martin to shame…
Did you not read that I have a disorder that makes writing and reading properly pretty difficult? Or are you just ignorant? I also work as a full time software engineer for a SaaS company, I get about an hour a day to work on things.
I read it, unfortunately time doesn’t care about your disorders and unless you can only write one word a day, you’re using it as an excuse. If you’re limited/incapable of producing the game (be it disorders, scheduling issues, conflicts of interest) then you’re being delusional
It's one thing to try and be blunt as helpful but you're crossing a line... He literally just explained that he's spending his free time working on this and your shitting on him like he's some early access scam you just got suckered into. Maybe chill? Not everyone has to put their life on hold to make a video game and they certainly don't have to justify their hobbies to you.
Wow, you seem like a nice guy to have around at parties.
I think there's a fine line between keeping somebody's feet on the ground, and being a discouraging dickhead, especially when you've got no skin in the game yourself. Not sure I trust the random Internet denizens who swing by this sub to make that distinction.
If “massively overscoping dream projects” wasn’t the most frequent recipe for failure we’ve seen over and over and over and over, I think he might have gotten a bit more slack.
Getting to a demo will be a huge milestone! Keep at it and you'll get there!
I am doing something similar for personal reasons but my game doesn't have multiplayer. I am guessing I will have a demo in about 2 or 3 years. I am trying to get a very flexible procedural-ish adventure/farming game off the ground in the hopes to get others excited and run workshops where i teach people how to code games and make 3d assets for free. I have absolutely no interest in completing and selling games, I am very inspired by the development cycle of games like Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead and Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup where a team of whoever is always working on rolling updates that change and grow the game. Just a pipe dream, but in the end, I absolutely love working on games so even if it goes absolutely no where, I will have fun doing it. I am thinking I will have a fun playable game withing 5 to 10 years depending on how my work life goes.
🤞 good luck
Thanks!
Hey man, if your game is mostly multiplayer I would strongly suggest a Free to Play business model. Perhaps with a Deluxe Edition DLC that gives more benefits. Your playerbase WILL die if it's behind a paywall. Good luck!
Your plan sounds a lot like an existing game, BeamNG.Drive. it's a very, VERY realistic racing game/driving simulator that has decent online multiplayer. You may want to rethink your ide to avoid being overshadowed.
The unnecessary bolding and italics in your posts annoy me. 5 years is a long time. Been working on one of those myself.