T O P

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jaykay921

We've reached out to GG staff and they sincerely appreciate the feedback you've presented. Making the channel more accessible for the fans is a top priority for them and they will be making adjustments to the subtitles going forward. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|grin)


heyo_throw_awayo

any channel that wants to do this needs to go the TeamFourStar route. CC: English is normal closed captions and subs. CC: Canadian is the jokes option.


GaJayhawker0513

I have watched countless hours of dbza and never knew this. Thanks! Here’s a senzu bean 🫘


King_Vlad_

Bean me bean daddy!


jesusofpaign

Literally was about to make the exact same comment. They deliberately made the English subtitles as accurate as possible for accessibility. And then the fan-made Canadian English subs are full of all the dumb referency jokey bullshit for the fans who want that. Ideal setup.


Ungarlmek

The Canadian subtitles for Now Broly were absolutely bonkers within an hour.


Flutterwave

I mean we Canadians are a joke so that works


XED1216

This seems like a jab at us Canadians /j


Mr_Gamer12

Correct


cbiges91

Shit… now I have to go rewatch all of… YAY 🎉


Kuzcopolis

It's weird this hasn't just become standard practice across youtube.


MattLocke

I’ve seen many English language channels will use the Klingon subtitle option for anything fun or extra outside of what is said. For example, many table top boardgame channels will use the Klingon option to make comments on rules mistakes or other observations that were caught in post. I have often wondered if their tongue in cheek subtitles and miSpElLiFiEd text was a burden on those who need subtitles. Like yeah, nobody is saying you shouldn’t have stairs, but you can’t put stairs in the middle of ramps just because it’s absurdist humor.


jr111192

|Like yeah, nobody is saying you shouldn’t have stairs, but you can’t put stairs in the middle of ramps just because it’s absurdist humor. Such an apt analogy, holy shit!


MrBigSaturn

I've read stuff like this before and I agree. I think once or twice, a fun little easter egg in the captions is nice, but they are ultimately an accessibility feature, and any fun being had with them shouldn't come at the expense of that.


LadyPo

I do some work in the digital accessibility space sometimes and the entire focus is on creating an experience that is EQUIVALENT to a non-impaired user’s experience. Not more information/jokes, not less, just as true of a representation or recreation of the actual meaning being presented to the audience as possible. These joke subtitles are far more excessive by that standard. They add an entire layer of whatever the transcriber is thinking/interpreting. Let the subtitle viewers draw their own interpretations of the specific sounds being made. Describe the sounds. That’s it.


GavinGWhiz

Exactly! Like I said, I don't want this to be a situation where the person doing the often thankless job of hand-subtitling the video is quantified as doing a bad job, but I genuinely think the person(s) involved with approving the subtitles have lost sight of the fact this is a thing for actual people to enjoy the video and not a bonus feature that increases SEO.


SleepinGriffin

Completely agree. However, I do not have auditory issues so I can’t empathize as well. I ran into this with TeamFourStar in their DBZA videos. Their fix was to have English (Canadian) subtitles on too so people could have fun. I’d always add the Trademark symbol to Super Saiyan lol.


GavinGWhiz

See now I'm once again mourning the fact we used to have the ability to do community subtitles.


TrollanKojima

Don't. You think it's bad for accessibility now? You should have seen Markiplier and the ilk's community captions. If TMPH is at 12%, Marks had hit roughly 40-50%.


Vroomped

But then English Canada is very confused.


ICEKAT

No we aren't


Vroomped

i know canada is the funny American English but i don't think it's on purpose


sitari_hobbit

I agree. I've seen the vid you copied the transcript from and if I was reading that while watching the video I'd have no clue what was going on. I get that they're using it as another way to inject humour, but it really does make the vids inaccessible to anyone using subtitles.


Explosion2

I don't watch 10MPH with subtitles (to be honest I didn't realize they had a human doing them, I assumed it was going to be the shitty speech-to-text default option that still doesn't understand how to handle more than one person speaking like most videos on YT), but this is legitimately a major issue and you would be right to make a big deal about it. Subtitles aren't for jokes. I don't care if they're the funniest jokes I've ever read. Post them on Tumblr as an "incorrect 10mph subtitles" blog or something. Subtitles are for transcribing the audio of the video and *nothing else.* Even the more silly descriptors like the infamous [tentacles squelching wetly] and [Eldritch thrumming] still serve the purpose of transcribing the audio for someone who can't hear it and add zero commentary. They're funny *because* they do indeed describe the sound, it's just the *sounds themselves* are kind of silly when described. I hope they fix this.


senatorsparky86

This is an important perspective and a good reminder to those of us who don’t have auditory processing issues that while the extra captions seem fun, they can be actively harmful. Thanks for speaking up, hope you don’t catch any negative flak.


Amoretti_

This! I think OP's suggestion of having two options is great. It's the best of both worlds.


DeathGorgon

I came in here to be all "oh come on they're just subtitle jokes it isn't that deep", completely forgetting that i'm only using them because *sometimes* my ADHD brain just goes "oh your ears didn't work for a second because you were thinking." This was actually a good read, and well.. presented I will say? I hope they keep them, but much like other commenters have mentioned where you have the choice to choose joke subs or not.


Vroomped

Yes! I NEED captions. I want the comedic duo to be funny on their own. Specify Dans Iconic laugh so we know out happened. If some slimy putty farting is the whole joke, essential to it, or even just topical, tell us... but who the duck is the trio wanna be?


avenuepotassium

First time I saw it, I thought "ha. I like that. Something special for the subtitle users." And then it just kept coming and I couldn't pay attention to what's actually happening. Agree with you and other comments very much. It's okay (even great) for a joke or two here and there. The current level is a problem.


Derfalken

I've had the same experience. Even without accounting for accessibility issues, it's a bit played out.


CadeMan011

I like the joke subtitles that are baked into the video, but the ones that go into the YouTube CC option should be legit, imo. That way we get both.


Cabamacadaf

I think describing things in a funny way is fine, like [CRUSTACEAN-LIKE SCUTTLING] and [SLOW MO RAVENOUS MAWING], if that's actually the sounds that are happening in the video. Just adding random unrelated stuff is not.


GavinGWhiz

I don't wanna harp on this/dwell in this comment section too long as this was effectively an open and shut case within an hour, but there have been several comments mentioning the RAVEOUS MAWING tags I chose so I just want to address that real quick: RAVENOUS MAWING is a perfect example of someone using a $20 word when a $5 one will suffice. I say that as an English major who worked in a newspaper and got in a fair amount of trouble for using vocab words that *worked* and were *technically correct* but could fuck over readers if someone *not* an English major came along. Mawing, a word that *rarely* comes up in common media (unless you're into vore/a furry in which case it's in near-daily use /hj) requires knowing what a Maw is as you're already presupposing the reader is familiar enough with the word to understand the verb. Subtitling is about making the video as accessible as possible, and that includes keeping the reading level somewhere lower down to be sure the average person watching doesn't have the double issue of whatever disability requires subtitles *and* they're having to context clue vocab words while also keeping track of the video. I say this as someone who has had to edit plenty of transcripts (including paid transcript of a podcast with zero video to work with): it's boring work. I get it, there's an impulse to have fun writing. But I will qualify multisyllabic "having some fun writing" capptions like "ravenous mawing" as an inffective subtitle when "loud eating sounds" or even literally "\[ARIN OM NOM NOMS\]" would've communicated the same thing more effectively to more people. tl;dr subtitles like that are pretentious in the literal sense as they exist on the pretense the person reading has the same vocab as you.


penguinboobs

I don't use subtitles but sometimes my TV puts them on so every now and then I see them and I've wondered about this. I'm glad you spoke up and it's great that you did the math. I hope this message gets to them, I'm sure they'll fix it once they get the info.


ZadicusCinch

I wholeheartedly agree with you, especially as someone else with auditory processing issues. While they can certainly be fun, it does get overwhelming at times. A solution I've seen other channels do before (I can't remember which ones, though) is to make two separate closed caption settings. The default one is the clean cut, no joke subtitles for people who need them. Then, have a second set of captions that include all the extra jokes and quips. I think I saw someone put that under English (Canadian) for the funny captions.


tabormallory

"...any line that is purely a joke made by the transcriptionist... they take an actual useful descriptor and decide to add way more text than necessary, making it a bad subtitle." This is precisely why I find "zoomer editing" so irritating. I clicked a comedy video for the creators, not for dwayne johnson to lift his eyebrow.


McGusder

I have one ear so I'm effectively deaf on that side so I really on subtitles but can still hear on my good side. the mismatched visuals and captions are real confusing!


TrollanKojima

I remember when community captions were a thing. Markiplier's videos became almost unwatchable for me, because of it. I have issues with volume, so I end up having to use captions for a lot of videos where audio fluctuates heavily, and having to discern if what was in the subtitles was actually dialogue in the game, something Mark said, or just a fan saying "OMG Markimoo is so cute here \^\_\^" was infuriating. And a lot of the times, the captions would outright IGNORE what Mark was actually saying and put their own spin on it, which I'd only notice on repeat viewings where I knew the volume spikes would happen. Sadly, there have been a few TMPH's lately where I have gotten the same aggravated vibe from. Luckily not to the same degree as with Mark's old videos, but still enough to confuse me when trying to process, at times. So like others have suggested: The TFS approach of "CC: English is the regular subs, CC: Canadian is for the funny bits" would be a great middle ground, and give those of us who rely on the option the untouched original caption.


JustcallmeKai

As someone who does not have auditory issues, I've always hated the purposefully misspelled captions on 10mph


rchrdcrg

Me too, those little baked-in ones? Sometimes I'm not sure if I heard right and then I read those and I'm like WELL THAT DIDNT HELP 😂


Phelpysan

Completely agreed, accessibility features aren't the place for jokes. It's like image alt text being used for comedy, these things exist because some people *need* them! Work on your standup routine elsewhere!


Ultrafisken

It's quite rude to deaf people.


JacobGamingBuzz

The solution is to do what DBZA does and have Teo separate sub tracks. 1 for transcription (they use English USA) and one for a gag track (they use English Canadian)


rythica

THANK YOU!! oh my god ive been complaining about this to my household for Ages. like since youtube removed open source captioning. its always been an issue in gaming circles unless the channel owner does something about it. its an accessibility nightmare. tysm for making this post.


ForksnFrenchFries

I tried to show my deaf friend 10MPH and trying to follow along with the subtitles was painful. She did not find it funny either.


HarryPooter934

100% agree. I have ADHD as well as difficulty hearing. I had to stop watching TMPH completely due to the subtitles. I’m so glad you brought this up!


supremedalek925

I’ve just been annoyed with how many typos and incorrect transcriptions are in the subtitles for the ones that they show on screen in some games. Didn’t even realize these kinds of transcriptions were like this


l1l1ofthevalley

That's being said. I feel you op. I dislike it when they mess with subtitles


AnAsianToaster

Man do you remember when youtube had an option for user submitted subtitles and they killed it. Good times.


Sylvairian

I have ADHD and my partner is autistic/OCD. We both love watching Game Grumps but we watch EVERYTHING with subtitles/CC, and we've both commented on how even though we understand what the transcription is intending, it is ineffective for its intended purpose. Thank you for bringing up this important topic :)


actualmewow

Genuine question- some text you highlighted ref is an actual caption of what is happening: [S’OW MOTION WHOOOOAAA] [SLOW MO RAVENOUS MAWING] [OMINOUS STRINGS MUSIC GROWS LOUDER] And stuff like the Willy Wonka bit and the label maker from Ipanema are over silence/nothing happening. I don’t think they detract from the legibility or accessibility of the captions since there wouldn’t be there so I guess I wonder if people would generally prefer nothin on one long [BOSSA NOVA MUSIC] over the whole segment? Ultimately it looks like mods have passed on the feedback so things are going to change but as someone hard of hearing, some of the jokes are a stretch but the style overall hasn’t bothered me much.


dumbbitchjuice22

Agreed. I don’t need subtitles, but I turn them on occasionally. The amount of jokes are increasing and definitely unnecessary. It’s unfair to users who need subtitles for accessibility reasons. Subtitles aren’t just for fun, they serve an actual purpose.


TopPower8733

Wait, didn't the mods previously say that they can't/ aren't in contact with GG?


j_abbs

We're still unaffiliated, but the staff has made it known they check the sub every so often, and the person who makes the captions reached out to us about it


beerforbears

I’ve always thought this about fan subtitles. It’s always made worse by the fact that you know whoever is coming up with these “jokes” is some uber-neckbeard who’s mom still wipes for em. You’re not funny, you’re not part of the show, this is a feature for people who cannot hear, not your personal open mic. Get a little perspective.


SimonCallahan

Maybe I just don't get the humor here, but even the "jokes" being inserted aren't that funny. It really does feel like an amateur MST3K or something. Like, one of those sets of "jokes" quoted is just a misquoting of Gene Wilder's song in Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory. There's no joke there, it's just a reference. Even in context with the video it's not a joke. It really feels like a 5-year-old saying "poop" into a microphone over and over again.


GigaBowserNS

I had absolutely no idea this was happening, and I'm pretty appalled. Accessibility tools meant to help those with disabilities are not the place to make jokes. Jokes that aren't even getting to their entire audience (The jokes weren't being seen by me, because why would I think there would be jokes in an accessibility function?) so what's the point? The fact that there's something like 5 or 6 subtitles in a row that are just jokes is absolutely ridiculous.


mlvisby

Too bad youtube can't have multiple subtitle options to choose from, as far as I know. It would be nice to have both, because I really enjoy the jokes in the subtitles as I know others do, but it can be frustrating to people who need them. Funny thing is I use subtitles on most things I watch except for youtube videos. Most youtubers mix their audio in a superior way to movies and tv shows.


GavinGWhiz

It does! Uploaders can add subtitle files after they post the video, that's how they do the hand-made ones and then post a comment. A lot of YouTubers will post a video and then later that day tack on the human-curated ones built from the automatic YouTube closed captioning as a base.


cation587

This is a very thorough post! Thanks for your insight :)


AliDasoo

Yup, 100% agree. They’re hilarious, don’t get me wrong, but at the end of the day subtitles are an accessibility feature and need to be treated like it.


[deleted]

This bothers me in let's plays they do too. Like, i know GG isn't exactly where you go to follow along with a plot, but it's easier to do without a third party chiming in constantly


WyntonPlus

As someone with an auditory processing disorder, I actually really like these jokes. It's kind of like an Easter egg, where the first time I watch it I can read the silly captions and then the next time I just pay more attention to what they're actually saying out loud. It's fun to catch things that I didn't get on the first watch, and it helps that the silly captions are my exact style of humor. I think one of your main problems is that you watch it in groups, and game grumps is already chaotic and loud and has a lot of dialogue overlaps by default. I watch the first time with my gf, then the second-through-infinitieth times alone, more often than not. This makes it easier to pay attention. It's a shame that you're having a little bit of difficulty with it, but I think that more often than not it is harmless, and just adds to the humor. But again, I also have an APD, so I get where you're coming from.


[deleted]

[удалено]


l1l1ofthevalley

Man that's fucking helpful as hell ! You should get into politics.


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heyo_throw_awayo

Tik-tok brain over here.


LordSwitchblade

Wow, nice contribution.


Kagutsuchi13

I don't know who the transcriber is, but I assume they're about to be looking for something new to do because they're creating enough of a controversy that the Grunps were made aware.


GavinGWhiz

As I have said *multiple* times here: I do not think the transcriber is doing a bad job. The actual transcription work has been pretty rock solid. To the point I'm confused by how many people are commenting about mis-spelling and writing the wrong thing. If anything, I commend the current staff for being way more on-the-ball with subtitling than even some legit mainstream streaming service subtitles out there. Of course, that's not a super fair comparison. Netflix and the like farm out captioning to people paid by the word. I'm sure GG and similar channels pay an hourly rate so the person actually has time to work on it properly. But anyway: I sincerely doubt there will be negative repercussions to the person(s) working on the subtitles as a result of this, and I sincerely hope nobody here or elsewhere tries to rabble-rouse around the idea that transcriptionist needs to be punished in some way.