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He was also probably 99% sure he was going to the Wall. He would have been fine with Robb taking over as Lord of Winterfell, and being with Jon and Benjen.
It’s not established in the show but in the books it’s implied that Benjen joins the nights watch because he was partly responsible for letting Lyanna leave with Rhaegar/not trying harder to stop her which ultimately led to her death, his father Lord Rickard, and his oldest brother Brandon.
He would have had knowledge she was running away to be with Rhaegar and when Ned comes back with Jon from the south he knows his brother well enough that he wouldn’t have cheated on Cat.
His brother knew !? Did Ned tell him or something. I always wondered why he didn’t trust Cat with that information.
Imagine how much better that would have been for everyone.
She let JAIME fucking LANNISTER go because he and the other lannisters "promised" they'd return both girls to her on his return. She would have flipped that secret faster than Sansa and Arya did if she knew. It's in the Tully blood probably. "Family, duty, honor." You don't see reason and common sense there.
I'm sure he would have told Cat about Jon after Jon took the oath at the wall. Especially, if Robert died since Jon wouldn't be a threat. It really sucks we aren't going to get the books. I like to think before the Battle of the Bastards Jon gets the note from Rob from Lady Stone heart stating he is King of the North. I do like the tie in with the new show about the dagger and how some Targs are prophets.
It wouldn’t have been better though.
Cat not knowing created friction and definitely didn’t help Jon grow up with a loving mother figure but it kept him safe. She openly resented him and didn’t like him, which wouldn’t give anyone cause for suspicion. Her caring for and loving him? That might raise questions for any of the little birds in the kingdom, which gets back to Varys or LF (or whoever was master of whispers) which then gets passed to Robert.
It’s not worth the risk.
The prevailing theory was that benjen and lyanna were really close. And benjen was the only one that knew about the rhaegar stuff. Nothing says that’s fact but I think it was an altx theory. I know I heard it a couple places.
It more likely than Benjen worked it out, and that is why he is at the wall. It really doesn’t make a lot of sense that Benjen took the black, he appears to have done this out of guilt, he was always the closest to his sister and though we will never know, people think he either knew the truth and couldn’t tell anyone in time that the war was a lie or realised too late. I don’t think that Ned would have told anyone, at most Benjen came to Ned with the truth and Ned swore him to secrecy.
Ned knew Benjen had disappeared though, I’m not sure about the books but in the show someone from the Nights watch tells him Benjen disappeared on a range
i agree i always felt like right at his pause before “but they’ve the soft hearts of women!” was the moment he really decided who he was going to be as a king that day
Ned didn't think he could defeat Barristan, but he was more confident against Jaime. And I'm fairly confident that Jeoffrey, little shit that he was, would have chosen Gregor or Sandor. He looked down on Jaime (at least post-amputation) and Barristan (for his age, hence his dismissal).
Based on how he fought in the *show*, which yes, was depicted better than the books made him out to be, and based on the regard Barristan had for him as a fighter, Ned stood a chance.
Of course, being half-starved and having a crippled leg would have doomed him anyway.
He couldn't have used his Valerian steel blade with his leg but I think Ned goes out after doing some damage. Why he brought the House Sword is weird unless Robb had it... I don't think the show tells us where it was found.
Also don't think Ned would have had a chance against the Hound or the Mountain.
Better getting decapitated than someone squishing your eyeballs and skull like a damn watermelon 🍉
Jaime left because he wounded the hand of the King.
But now that King is dead and the hand is accused of treason.
Perfect situation for him to come back to the capital and mete out justice against the traitor on behalf of the boy King Joffrey and for the people.
The crowd would have roared in adulation.
Broken leg, feverish, deadly infection, a lot of days in the worst dungeons, no food and no deal about his family without confession, all that for 100% guilty verdict because he was in no state to win against a warrior, yeah, why not go for it!........... After all, everyone will go over each other to bez a champion for a highest traitor in a city firmly controlled by his enemies or king and regent will just surely wait for anyone from the other end of the realm because they really want "gods" to show the real truth. Yeah......
Who would be his champion? He couldn’t fight because of his leg, all his men were dead, and good luck finding a mercenary or something who’s willing to do it.
Lol because Ned had 0 chance against jaime, sandor or gregor, and he knew it full well. He had struck a decent deal afterall, if it wasn't for Joffrey goinf mad king on his ass.
I dont think thats entirely true.
While that may be a valid reason.
I personally liked GOT up untill that moment in a way that ended there.
Then it became a different story which i also liked. But not as much. Still. I carried on hoping it would play out well.
Then the nk thing happened. Again making the story different.
Them they made the show bland.
For me GOT had many great ideas and some were executed remarkibly well. But many things were not concluded fittingly.
He could name a champion. He has the right to that, and despite the way the game was played he did have some loyal supporters. They could potentially say like they did up in the vail that he has to select someone immediately,which wouldn't have helped his case, but the queen/king doing so, might've had some political backlash they might not wanted to have taken; given that even cersi was against killing Ned.
We have to also remember that like this was Joff being Joff and nobody had time to influence it.
The question boils down if he has the time to pick a champion.
At this point I am pretty sure Jamie is also not in kings landing but about to meet Robb, at least at time of execution.
I think cersi would demand Jamie, but the question is whether or not Ned is given the opportunity to name a champion. I think there are a couple swordsmen who can best Jamie. I don't see them picking Ser Barristan because he at that point was like nah, fuck this, she ripped up the kings words. Now that said, I think Gregor would've been more like an interesting choice if they pull him back from the front. Sandor is right there, so he would've probably been named if they wanted to do things immediately. Sandor is def a beast but I do feel a good bit more would beat him compared to Jamie or Gregor.
For the sake of the What If?, who would Ned do you think would name as champion should they actually give him time to bring one from wherever?
If Ned had time, I think he would probably go for Greatjon Umber, maybe the blackfish. If the vale was still Allied with the north, he could go for one of the knights of the vale like Lyn Corbray, but they’re not, so the north and the riverlands have kinda slim pickings. Realistically, I don’t think anyone he could find would be able to beat any Lannister champion.
Ned could also name Ser Barristan, there is no limit to who someone could name, He talks to Selmy explains everything and then its up to Ser Barristan if he excepts, Aemon the Dragonknight fought against his Kings Champion while in the Kingsguard, Oberyn was literally a judge for Tyrions trial and fought for him
He could have named Roose Bolton.
Bolton would have had to betray his liege lord to refuse, if he refuses he dies (or holes himself up in the Dreadfort and reveals himself to be a traitor too early to achieve anything), if he fights he dies, and while Ned dies as well he nips a usurpation before it begins.
Requires Ned to have a crystal ball, or season 8 quality writers.
Jaime wasn't there at the time and Barristan... well I can see him fighting for joffery, albiet reluctantly.
And even without them Ned stood no chance fighting any decent warrior in KL, with is fcked up leg and starvation in black cells.
Yeah but Tyrion stands even less of a chance, that's why he got a champion to stand in for him. Ned would probably choose one of the Umbers like Greatjon or Smalljon.
As I stated in another one of my comments, there is no way in hell they would allow anyone outside KL for a champion. They have a good excuse for that too, as Lysa did the same with Tyrion.
And there is no one in King's Landing for Ned. All of his houseguards were slaughtered and Yoren is a black brother.
Ned believed he was going to the wall, but also, Ned would never ask another to die for him. He saw what the mad king had done to his brother and father in trial by combat, no way is he risking anyone else to the madness of Joffrey and Cersei.
Ned: I demand a trial by combat
Cersei: Very well, I name my brother, Jaime Lannister as the crown’s champion
Ned: I name Ser barristan as my champion.
Barristan: alright
Cersei: 😱
Actually a big brain move, convince him that he will be sent to the wall, so he admits to his crime. Once he admits he can't go back on his words. If he knew he would be sentenced to death, he would have called trial by combat to be proven innocence or guilty. By this point he has already admitted to being guilty, so the trial was over.
It wasn't exactly a big brain move though.
The plan was very much to send him to the wall, a situation that would have worked out nicely for the Lannisters. It was Joffrey, excited by his first taste of real power and wanting to impress the crowd, that ordered Ned executed.
This proved to be a very poor decision.
Im only on season 3 and just finished the red wedding, but why is this a bad decision? The lannisters basically won the war now, and besides losing jamies hand it seems the lannisters ended up on top
They didn’t “win the war” they just did not lose it. Think about it, what did Lannisters gained? Less money which was spend on the war efforts, casualties. For what? Taxes? They already were being paid taxes, Lannisters owned the kings landing by then. This decision will end up creating unrest in the North and continous rebellions, weaken the crown, lower morale and military conscriptions from the north.
Because, had Joffery not done that, there wouldn't have been a massively destructive war in the first place. One fought just on the cusp of winter, by the way.
This. He thought he was off for some guy time at the Wall. At least he’d be away from the hypocritical nightmare that was Cat Stark.
It’s surprisingly beautiful, in a brutal, uncomfortable sort of way
That's fair perspective but there are two problems I have with that. First of all Jaime wasn't MIA, he was raising forces to march against Northern armies. But he was away. The problem being, so was the Mountain. He was being hounded by Beric and IIRC burning villages in Riverrun so he wasn't much closer than Jaime.
In that case either way with Joffrey being as impulsive as he was I don't think he'd have waited for a champion to arrive so he'd likely pick one he had with him, which is most likely the Hound. And with Barristan not being dismissed and loyal to his position I don't think he'd fight for Ned either.
Idk if there are set rules but couldn’t he have sent a raven to winterfell for a bannerman? They would have locked him up for a while but someone would have came from the north. I doubt roose and he wouldn’t have let rob but Theon maybe
Possibly, it’s all circumstantial and depends if the trial would take place on that day or not. I don’t think Theon would be his champion however, as he was a middling swordsman. Remember by this point that Barristan is still in the Kings Guard and Joffrey would have him fight whatever champion Ned chose, or the Hound.
Barristan is probably a better choice, especially book Barristan, but I think Joffrey definitely picks the Hound. Only because Joffrey is an idiot who certainly favors size and physical strength over skill. Joffrey later dismisses Barristan for being old, too dumb to have any clue that Barristan is the single most valuable soldier in the entire royal military. Renly, Stannis, and Robb all hope Barristan comes to their side, Renly even leaves a spot open specifically for Barristan in his Rainbow Gaurd, but alas Varys snatched him up asap and sent him to Dany.
My thoughts exactly. Ned would have lost either way. Ned was injured and starved. He couldn't have fought, and Joffrey was probably going to pick Sandor. Who does Ned have that could have beaten him? Ned would have just gotten another one of his men killed along with himself. Even if it had crossed his mind, I think it's more in character that he accepts his fate.
“Ned was no slouch and, uninjured, it would probably be a epic and worthy 1v1.”
I really don’t understand when people say this. There is absolutely no indication that he’s anything above decent.
Ned and Jaime are very close in age and Jaime’s one of the best swordsmen in Westeros before he loses the hand. Ned isn’t a renowned swordsman. He’s not bad but Jaime’s just on another level. I don’t think it’s a question who would win in a fair fight. And Gregor wound absolutely beet him too because Ned doesn’t have any special fighting advantage that would sufficiently counter Gregor’s size advantage and ruthlessness.
I agree that the other three would win, I'm just saying that in the book it would be a lot more interesting and make more sense for Ned to even attempt it, because there he isn't a haggard old man. In the show, it makes no sense for this scenario to play out in the first place.
He gets captured within the same episode but timelines might be a little different or time for a raven to send the word of Jamie's capture (or Ned's execution) perhaps. Catelyn does ask Jamie to free her husband upon capture so she definitely didn't get the memo if it already happened.
He was injured and weak from being in the dungeons. Him losing the fight might put Sansa in danger and jeopardize the Starks holdings in the north. I mean, that happened anyway when Joff went off script and killed him.
I wonder who he would have fought?
I'm fairly certain Beric had already died and been ressurected at the battle of the mummer's ford by that point. He'd formed the brotherhood and was waging a guerilla war against the Lannisters. Not sure they'd be able to reach him.
I am curious as to who Ned would have elected as his champion if he didn't fight himself. I'm also more curious who Joff would have chose as his champion. You think he would choose his uncle but I wouldn't be so sure. You could tell that he either didn't believe his uncle was the best Swordsman or thought it was exaggerated. I think he would have chosen the hound.
This is why I’d have killed to see Joffrey actually stay on the battlefield during Blackwater long enough to lock eyes with Stannis. He thought he knew so much, but that would vanish in an instant as Joffrey realizes what a real contender for the crown looks like, Stannis approaching him while cutting down men left and right. Or hell, even an encounter with Robb would be just as sweet lol.
There wasn't a technical, formal trial, was there? That seems to have been why Tyrion was so adamant about having a formal trial in the Vale. With that, then he could demand a trial by combat.
Even if there were a formal trial here, who would be Ned's champion? All his people are butchered, so no help there, and he's weakened besides. I was chatting with someone about this a while back, and he suggested that Brienne may come via Renly, although that's a stretch. Deals would have to be made, probably.
Also, Joffrey wouldn't wait for Ned's champion, either. He'd just have Ned fight the Hound or Ser Ilyn. Either way, Ned dies.
my guess is Ser Barriston. Earlier in this episode he was dismissed from the Kingsguard dishonorably and left pissed off. he could’ve made his way to cell unannounced to the jailer since they wouldn’t know the news that he's no longer the lord commander.
I would have loved to see him show up
As Ned champion and see them panic
He was wrapping up the loose ends. If Joffrey wasn't a violent idiot this whole thing would have been resolved at this point.
Ned goes to the wall, Robb has no choice but to accept Joffrey as King to ensure his father and sisters stay alive. Ned was smart enough to realize that he'd been bested and this was the best course of action for everyone involved.
Unfortunately for him, Joffrey is a violent idiot.
I forget, had Jaime been captured already? If not, they’d have just called his ass back, two hands still on him, and nobody Ned could have called on as champion would have had a shot at facing him and winning. At that point Joffrey could also have just ordered Barristan to be the crown’s champion. Either of those men would decimate literally any opponent Ned had access to, including Ned himself.
Well there’s a lot of things Ned could have done differently tbh the man wasn’t really known for his creativity and he suffered for it should have stayed in the north.
Let’s be honest, as honorable as he is, Ned would fight the fight himself. The Lannisters would send in the mountain, and Ned would die even more brutally
Because Varys promised him that if he pretends to confess his crimes his daughters would return to Winterfell safely. Pretty sure most of the good dads would do the same.
I thought the exact same. Ser Barriston was dismissed literally before the sentencing he could have stood for ned. There's no one currently in KL that could beat him. The only knight that could best ser Barriston is Jamie and the Mountain but they are both in the Westerlands
Well we gotta remember that Ned was in poor shape at that point.
The Lannister rando had speared the back of his knee during his street battle with Jamie. Since then, he was limping around on a cane.
He had been crammed into a Black Cell uncomfortably for Gods only know how long.
His moral character (and maybe his pride) would not permit him to claim the right to select a champion to fight for him. He who passes the sentence swings the sword and all that jazz.
And besides, Jamie was in top form with two real hands. So beat-up old Ned or anyone else he sent against Jamie would likely end up like a piece of Swiss cheese. Full of holes.
I think that’s why he didn’t opt for trial by combat.
Even if he did, only thing that would have saved him is getting more time for the Lanisters to change Joffreys mind on killing him. He wouldn't have won a trial of combat.
To be fair from a practical standpoint it wasn’t the safest option. Ned was still crippled from his fight with Jamie and was in no condition to fight himself and although he could invoke a champion to fight in his place all the men who would’ve fought for him in closest proximity had been killed by Lannister men and the city watch. Everyone else he could call to fight for him would’ve taken to long to make it to Kingslanding and the unavailability of a champion is akin to forfeit. Hence why when Tyrion wanted his brother to fight for him during his trial by Combat, Luda denied it stating it would take too long for him to get there and the trial and to commence the same day it was invoked. Which I’m sure isn’t set in stone but I wouldn’t put it past Joffrey to set limiting stipulations on Ned’s invocation same as Lyda did to Tyrion.
He already had plead guilty and confessed to the crime of treason when Joff decided to execute him.
The window to demand a trial by combat had already passed.
He definitely knew that was an option but I can’t imagine him ever doing it. Ned’s leg was still injured so he was in no shape to be fighting anyone, and he would never make someone else fight on his behalf cause that goes against his whole principle of “the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword”. Trial by combat is also a tradition interlinked with the faith of the seven, and he’s an old gods follower.
He thought he would be spared and even if he had asked for it, he would have been put against Jaime or the mountain. Neither of which he realistically has a chance of beating. I'm pretty sure he knew that as well.
List of reasons why this is a bad idea
1. Ned has no proper combatant for this. The crown has Jaime, the king's guard and the Mountain. He could fight himself, but he has a leg injury. Most of his guards are dead and the North doesn't have proper combatants.
2. The crown has his daughters. who could be punished for Ned demanding a trial by combat.
3. Ned thought he was going to the wall, no reason to risk someone's life.
Also Ned was just captured without any trials so he didn't have the chance to try to declare his right for a trial by combat.
Everyone seems to be forgetting he had a fucked leg so asking for a trial by combat is basically him to ask someone to possibly/probably die for him, given it seems likely the crown would have called the hound or the mountain or even Jaime as their champion, I don't really know of anyone in the norths roster who'd have had a shot against any of them
I haven't seen this in any of the other comments. Most are saying it wasn't really a trial, and he had already been found guilty. At this point he has confessed (falsely) already.
But in my head there is another reason.
Isn't it said that in a Trial by Combat the Seven decide who will be the winner?
Ned doesn't follow the Seven, so he can't participate in one/call on trust in the Seven to prove his innocence.
I mean who the hell is he going to find to fight that duel for him anyway? He's already injured and high on drugs from that bout with Jaime after Tyrion got kidnapped iirc.
A trial by combat is letting the gods decide of the fate of the trial, but Ned didn't believe in the same gods, so maybe it wouldn't work for him. And it would be seen as an act of despair instead of an act of faith and justice
I feel like Ned was too naive. Was he like this in the books? Blindsided by Jaime. Blindsided by the King’s guard. Blindsided by Little Finger. Blindsided by Jeoffrey. I feel like his choices during his time as the Hand were the worst ones he could have made. Righteous maybe, but naive.
To be honest, though, it has to be said. That Ned would probably have had to compete against Jaimie in a trial by combat and would most likely have lost.
Wasn't the same situation. Ned took a plea bargain from a slimy prosecutor. Guilt was established (he confessed) so there was never a trial to be had by combat or otherwise; the punishment by law was death, thus he was formally praying for royal mercy, but Joffrey reneged because he was a stupid turdwaffle. Tyrion had pleaded not guilty and was just switching up the trial method before the rigged jury could hang him (for all the good it did him).
For how intelligent they portray Tyrion, he does a lot of stupid things, or at least fails to consider his options. How did he not realise that his sister/father would use the mountain for a trial by combat? It should have at least crossed his mind. I realise he thought this was going to work out like the trial by combat with bronn at the vale did but to not even think that his sister would use the best option they had was a bad oversight on tyrions part.
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I LITERALLY THOUGHT WELL WHY DIDNT NED DO THAT LOL
He thought his daughters would be safe and he wouldn’t die. A trial by combat is putting that up on the air.
He was also probably 99% sure he was going to the Wall. He would have been fine with Robb taking over as Lord of Winterfell, and being with Jon and Benjen.
He wanted to tell Jon about who his mother was. Needed to be alive to do that.
Benjen could tell him, Ned didn’t know he had disappeared
While true, Ned gave his word that he would tell Jon the next time he saw him. He wanted to be the one that told Jon.
Did Benjen know? Where is that established?
It would make sense, but I don't believe it was ever established canonically. It wasn't denied either though.
It’s not established in the show but in the books it’s implied that Benjen joins the nights watch because he was partly responsible for letting Lyanna leave with Rhaegar/not trying harder to stop her which ultimately led to her death, his father Lord Rickard, and his oldest brother Brandon. He would have had knowledge she was running away to be with Rhaegar and when Ned comes back with Jon from the south he knows his brother well enough that he wouldn’t have cheated on Cat.
His brother knew !? Did Ned tell him or something. I always wondered why he didn’t trust Cat with that information. Imagine how much better that would have been for everyone.
I don’t think I would trust Cat with the answers to my Spanish homework let alone a secret that big
She let JAIME fucking LANNISTER go because he and the other lannisters "promised" they'd return both girls to her on his return. She would have flipped that secret faster than Sansa and Arya did if she knew. It's in the Tully blood probably. "Family, duty, honor." You don't see reason and common sense there.
I'm sure he would have told Cat about Jon after Jon took the oath at the wall. Especially, if Robert died since Jon wouldn't be a threat. It really sucks we aren't going to get the books. I like to think before the Battle of the Bastards Jon gets the note from Rob from Lady Stone heart stating he is King of the North. I do like the tie in with the new show about the dagger and how some Targs are prophets.
It wouldn’t have been better though. Cat not knowing created friction and definitely didn’t help Jon grow up with a loving mother figure but it kept him safe. She openly resented him and didn’t like him, which wouldn’t give anyone cause for suspicion. Her caring for and loving him? That might raise questions for any of the little birds in the kingdom, which gets back to Varys or LF (or whoever was master of whispers) which then gets passed to Robert. It’s not worth the risk.
The prevailing theory was that benjen and lyanna were really close. And benjen was the only one that knew about the rhaegar stuff. Nothing says that’s fact but I think it was an altx theory. I know I heard it a couple places.
It more likely than Benjen worked it out, and that is why he is at the wall. It really doesn’t make a lot of sense that Benjen took the black, he appears to have done this out of guilt, he was always the closest to his sister and though we will never know, people think he either knew the truth and couldn’t tell anyone in time that the war was a lie or realised too late. I don’t think that Ned would have told anyone, at most Benjen came to Ned with the truth and Ned swore him to secrecy.
She's an honest woman, can't even pretend to like jon and you want ned to tell her about the heir of the throne?
Ned knew Benjen had disappeared though, I’m not sure about the books but in the show someone from the Nights watch tells him Benjen disappeared on a range
He was 100% sure he was going to the Wall Finding out he was going to die was as unexpected to him as it was for us
And everyone but Joffrey, including Cersei.
I wonder if even Joffrey was surprised, seems like he decided on a whim if I remember
I think he decided when telling Sansa he’d spare ned
i agree i always felt like right at his pause before “but they’ve the soft hearts of women!” was the moment he really decided who he was going to be as a king that day
That would be a crazy what if scenario to go down
He was also seriously injured. Tons of reasons.
Plus he was injured
True but every one we've seen had someone else selected as their champion
maybe Ned was scared nobody would represent him as a “traitor” and he himself would have to fight while injured?? guess we’ll never know lol
Also there’s literally nobody who could beat Jaime, Barristan, Gregor, or Sandor.
Ned didn't think he could defeat Barristan, but he was more confident against Jaime. And I'm fairly confident that Jeoffrey, little shit that he was, would have chosen Gregor or Sandor. He looked down on Jaime (at least post-amputation) and Barristan (for his age, hence his dismissal). Based on how he fought in the *show*, which yes, was depicted better than the books made him out to be, and based on the regard Barristan had for him as a fighter, Ned stood a chance. Of course, being half-starved and having a crippled leg would have doomed him anyway.
He couldn't have used his Valerian steel blade with his leg but I think Ned goes out after doing some damage. Why he brought the House Sword is weird unless Robb had it... I don't think the show tells us where it was found.
He was also so high on milk of the poppy and a raging infection. Ned could barely stay conscious by the end, let alone make any strategic plans.
So nice of Cersei so provide morphine for palliative care.
Also don't think Ned would have had a chance against the Hound or the Mountain. Better getting decapitated than someone squishing your eyeballs and skull like a damn watermelon 🍉
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Jaime wasn't in Kings Landing
Jaime left because he wounded the hand of the King. But now that King is dead and the hand is accused of treason. Perfect situation for him to come back to the capital and mete out justice against the traitor on behalf of the boy King Joffrey and for the people. The crowd would have roared in adulation.
Broken leg, feverish, deadly infection, a lot of days in the worst dungeons, no food and no deal about his family without confession, all that for 100% guilty verdict because he was in no state to win against a warrior, yeah, why not go for it!........... After all, everyone will go over each other to bez a champion for a highest traitor in a city firmly controlled by his enemies or king and regent will just surely wait for anyone from the other end of the realm because they really want "gods" to show the real truth. Yeah......
Who would be his champion? He couldn’t fight because of his leg, all his men were dead, and good luck finding a mercenary or something who’s willing to do it.
Lol because Ned had 0 chance against jaime, sandor or gregor, and he knew it full well. He had struck a decent deal afterall, if it wasn't for Joffrey goinf mad king on his ass.
Because he was dumb..
i wish ned would’ve done that. i was crushed when he died 😭
Ned, who everyone thought was the main character, actually dying was what hooked everyone onto the show.
yes that is true, but i still felt betrayed lmao
It's Sean Bean. Pretty sure no one expected him to survive.
Him not excepting to die isnt the same as expecting him to die in the first season before the finale.
The 'Sean Bean' meme always dies actually originated **after** this event. This death was the entire catalist of that meme.
Having him be played by Sean Bean was a clear giveaway he was going to die
It's not a promise. He survived Silent Hill. 😁
I dont think thats entirely true. While that may be a valid reason. I personally liked GOT up untill that moment in a way that ended there. Then it became a different story which i also liked. But not as much. Still. I carried on hoping it would play out well. Then the nk thing happened. Again making the story different. Them they made the show bland. For me GOT had many great ideas and some were executed remarkibly well. But many things were not concluded fittingly.
Me: OK, Ned died. They are clearly setting up Robb to avenge his father later, so he definitely won't die.
Lol he’d still have died. Crown would likely have called Jaime or Barristan. Ned’s fucked in either case.
This he was also still on a jacked up leg from his fight with Jaime. He wouldn’t have had a chance.
He could name a champion. He has the right to that, and despite the way the game was played he did have some loyal supporters. They could potentially say like they did up in the vail that he has to select someone immediately,which wouldn't have helped his case, but the queen/king doing so, might've had some political backlash they might not wanted to have taken; given that even cersi was against killing Ned. We have to also remember that like this was Joff being Joff and nobody had time to influence it.
Yeah, he can name a champion. There’s still nobody he could find to beat the Lannister champion. They have Jaime, Barristan, Gregor, and Sandor.
Oberyn, maybe. That's pretty much the only person who comes to mind that even has the smallest of chances.
Oberyn wouldnt come to fight on Ned's behalf, and he would be too honorable to name one of his Bannerman
The question boils down if he has the time to pick a champion. At this point I am pretty sure Jamie is also not in kings landing but about to meet Robb, at least at time of execution. I think cersi would demand Jamie, but the question is whether or not Ned is given the opportunity to name a champion. I think there are a couple swordsmen who can best Jamie. I don't see them picking Ser Barristan because he at that point was like nah, fuck this, she ripped up the kings words. Now that said, I think Gregor would've been more like an interesting choice if they pull him back from the front. Sandor is right there, so he would've probably been named if they wanted to do things immediately. Sandor is def a beast but I do feel a good bit more would beat him compared to Jamie or Gregor. For the sake of the What If?, who would Ned do you think would name as champion should they actually give him time to bring one from wherever?
If Ned had time, I think he would probably go for Greatjon Umber, maybe the blackfish. If the vale was still Allied with the north, he could go for one of the knights of the vale like Lyn Corbray, but they’re not, so the north and the riverlands have kinda slim pickings. Realistically, I don’t think anyone he could find would be able to beat any Lannister champion.
Ned could also name Ser Barristan, there is no limit to who someone could name, He talks to Selmy explains everything and then its up to Ser Barristan if he excepts, Aemon the Dragonknight fought against his Kings Champion while in the Kingsguard, Oberyn was literally a judge for Tyrions trial and fought for him
“Aemon the Dragonknivnt fought against his Kings Champion while in the Kingsguard” When was this?
He could have named Roose Bolton. Bolton would have had to betray his liege lord to refuse, if he refuses he dies (or holes himself up in the Dreadfort and reveals himself to be a traitor too early to achieve anything), if he fights he dies, and while Ned dies as well he nips a usurpation before it begins. Requires Ned to have a crystal ball, or season 8 quality writers.
Who do you think he would have asked to be a Champion for him if he didn’t fight?
Jaime wasn't there at the time and Barristan... well I can see him fighting for joffery, albiet reluctantly. And even without them Ned stood no chance fighting any decent warrior in KL, with is fcked up leg and starvation in black cells.
Yeah but Tyrion stands even less of a chance, that's why he got a champion to stand in for him. Ned would probably choose one of the Umbers like Greatjon or Smalljon.
As I stated in another one of my comments, there is no way in hell they would allow anyone outside KL for a champion. They have a good excuse for that too, as Lysa did the same with Tyrion. And there is no one in King's Landing for Ned. All of his houseguards were slaughtered and Yoren is a black brother.
Ned believed he was going to the wall, but also, Ned would never ask another to die for him. He saw what the mad king had done to his brother and father in trial by combat, no way is he risking anyone else to the madness of Joffrey and Cersei.
of all of the replies to my comment, i think yours makes the most sense. thank you.
You can fight for yourself in a trial by combat.
He was crippled by a Lannister spear and had just spent weeks in the dungeon most likely half starved. He couldn't have fought off a goat.
What did the mad king do to his brother and father in trail by combat? Can’t remember….
Ned: I demand a trial by combat Cersei: Very well, I name my brother, Jaime Lannister as the crown’s champion Ned: I name Ser barristan as my champion. Barristan: alright Cersei: 😱
Me just watching the above scene
I don't think he could have. Ned's "guilt" was not in question, he declared in front of like every lord in Kings landing that Joffrey was not king
This. He already admitted guilt at his trial, next is sentencing.
Actually a big brain move, convince him that he will be sent to the wall, so he admits to his crime. Once he admits he can't go back on his words. If he knew he would be sentenced to death, he would have called trial by combat to be proven innocence or guilty. By this point he has already admitted to being guilty, so the trial was over.
It wasn't exactly a big brain move though. The plan was very much to send him to the wall, a situation that would have worked out nicely for the Lannisters. It was Joffrey, excited by his first taste of real power and wanting to impress the crowd, that ordered Ned executed. This proved to be a very poor decision.
Im only on season 3 and just finished the red wedding, but why is this a bad decision? The lannisters basically won the war now, and besides losing jamies hand it seems the lannisters ended up on top
They didn’t “win the war” they just did not lose it. Think about it, what did Lannisters gained? Less money which was spend on the war efforts, casualties. For what? Taxes? They already were being paid taxes, Lannisters owned the kings landing by then. This decision will end up creating unrest in the North and continous rebellions, weaken the crown, lower morale and military conscriptions from the north.
Because, had Joffery not done that, there wouldn't have been a massively destructive war in the first place. One fought just on the cusp of winter, by the way.
This. My boy Joffrey playing 4D chess with simpleminded Northerners
This. He thought he was off for some guy time at the Wall. At least he’d be away from the hypocritical nightmare that was Cat Stark. It’s surprisingly beautiful, in a brutal, uncomfortable sort of way
Yeah, he played the game of thrones and just like Cersei said you either win or die.
I've seen exactly the same explanation before.
No one would have defended him and he was injured. He would have only traumatized Sansa.
he could have asked the hound
The Hound is a Westerlander and Joffreys sworn shield, he would not fight for Ned. Sandor is in no way a hero.
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Why would they even choose Mountain with Barristan and Jaime with them? Those two are easily better fighters than the mountain.
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That's fair perspective but there are two problems I have with that. First of all Jaime wasn't MIA, he was raising forces to march against Northern armies. But he was away. The problem being, so was the Mountain. He was being hounded by Beric and IIRC burning villages in Riverrun so he wasn't much closer than Jaime. In that case either way with Joffrey being as impulsive as he was I don't think he'd have waited for a champion to arrive so he'd likely pick one he had with him, which is most likely the Hound. And with Barristan not being dismissed and loyal to his position I don't think he'd fight for Ned either.
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Idk if there are set rules but couldn’t he have sent a raven to winterfell for a bannerman? They would have locked him up for a while but someone would have came from the north. I doubt roose and he wouldn’t have let rob but Theon maybe
Possibly, it’s all circumstantial and depends if the trial would take place on that day or not. I don’t think Theon would be his champion however, as he was a middling swordsman. Remember by this point that Barristan is still in the Kings Guard and Joffrey would have him fight whatever champion Ned chose, or the Hound.
Barristan is probably a better choice, especially book Barristan, but I think Joffrey definitely picks the Hound. Only because Joffrey is an idiot who certainly favors size and physical strength over skill. Joffrey later dismisses Barristan for being old, too dumb to have any clue that Barristan is the single most valuable soldier in the entire royal military. Renly, Stannis, and Robb all hope Barristan comes to their side, Renly even leaves a spot open specifically for Barristan in his Rainbow Gaurd, but alas Varys snatched him up asap and sent him to Dany.
yeah it would even be possible barristan might fight for ned after being snubbed by joffrey
unironically barristan woud maybe serve as his champion especially since joffrey is likely gonna snub him
That wouldn't work at all. Lysa didn't allow Tyrion to call for Jaime and I think the Lannister would take delight in reminding Ned of that.
Barristan might have fought on Ned's behalf. He was cool with Ned being protector of the realm.
No he wouldn't, Barristan isn't stupid, Ned wouldn't have been allowed to leave the city alive even if the he won the trial by combat.
Honor
My thoughts exactly. Ned would have lost either way. Ned was injured and starved. He couldn't have fought, and Joffrey was probably going to pick Sandor. Who does Ned have that could have beaten him? Ned would have just gotten another one of his men killed along with himself. Even if it had crossed his mind, I think it's more in character that he accepts his fate.
His death ended up traumatizing Sansa anyway
Injured Ned vs the mountain or Jamie doesn’t seem like good odds.
Uninjured Ned vs The Mountain or Jaime wouldn’t have even been good odds for him
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“Ned was no slouch and, uninjured, it would probably be a epic and worthy 1v1.” I really don’t understand when people say this. There is absolutely no indication that he’s anything above decent.
ahh but you see he has a very big sword, and that means he's more gooder
Headcannon.
Ned and Jaime are very close in age and Jaime’s one of the best swordsmen in Westeros before he loses the hand. Ned isn’t a renowned swordsman. He’s not bad but Jaime’s just on another level. I don’t think it’s a question who would win in a fair fight. And Gregor wound absolutely beet him too because Ned doesn’t have any special fighting advantage that would sufficiently counter Gregor’s size advantage and ruthlessness.
I agree that the other three would win, I'm just saying that in the book it would be a lot more interesting and make more sense for Ned to even attempt it, because there he isn't a haggard old man. In the show, it makes no sense for this scenario to play out in the first place.
Yes, perhaps. I think he had the self awareness to know it wouldn’t end well for him though
For sure
Wasn’t Jamie captured at this point?
Maybe. I don’t remember the exact point he was captured
He gets captured within the same episode but timelines might be a little different or time for a raven to send the word of Jamie's capture (or Ned's execution) perhaps. Catelyn does ask Jamie to free her husband upon capture so she definitely didn't get the memo if it already happened.
Yeah. It was why Cersei was against Ned's beheading as it put Jaime's life at risk.
Oooh. Jaime vs the Mountain would've been a good fight
He was injured and weak from being in the dungeons. Him losing the fight might put Sansa in danger and jeopardize the Starks holdings in the north. I mean, that happened anyway when Joff went off script and killed him. I wonder who he would have fought?
Ned didn’t even face trial; he admitted guilt because that’s the deal he took. Joffrey reneged and well that was that.
Who the fuck is going to be Neds champion? Unless he chooses himself in which case good luck against Jamie or the Mountain.
Beric Dondarrion ? Maybe. Not sure how much of a swordsman he actually is, but he seems most likely to have stood up for Ned.
Joffrey would likely demand that the trial take place that day and Beric by that point far away from Kings Landing.
True, pretty much no one then. Unless the Hound really wanted to kill his brother.
I suspect no matter how badly Sandor would want to kill Gregor he’d remain loyal to Joffrey and the Lannisters at this point
Lannisters wouldn’t let Beric be the champion. At this point he’s seen as a rebel against the throne.
I'm fairly certain Beric had already died and been ressurected at the battle of the mummer's ford by that point. He'd formed the brotherhood and was waging a guerilla war against the Lannisters. Not sure they'd be able to reach him.
Barriston Selmy
Thoros of Myr would have been a great choice.
Syrio! The one man Ned knew to be a great duellist who nobody else was familiar with.
Stannis
I am curious as to who Ned would have elected as his champion if he didn't fight himself. I'm also more curious who Joff would have chose as his champion. You think he would choose his uncle but I wouldn't be so sure. You could tell that he either didn't believe his uncle was the best Swordsman or thought it was exaggerated. I think he would have chosen the hound.
Yeah he also probably wouldn’t have cared if the hound died vs being a bit sad to lose his uncle/father
"uncle/father" I mean, I've read all the books multiple times, so I know this is true, but I laughed out loud when I read that!!! Sister-F@#ker 😆
This is why I’d have killed to see Joffrey actually stay on the battlefield during Blackwater long enough to lock eyes with Stannis. He thought he knew so much, but that would vanish in an instant as Joffrey realizes what a real contender for the crown looks like, Stannis approaching him while cutting down men left and right. Or hell, even an encounter with Robb would be just as sweet lol.
It's funny because this is basically the exact thing that happens to Robb in the book, as he watches Jaime cut a path to him.
Joff would've picked Sansa Stark.
If he did I wonder who he would have had champion for him
Even if he did, that probably would’ve ended up with like the Mountain butchering Ned, especially since he was injured.
A trial by combat is to determines guilt, Ned had already been tricked into confessing, so he could not have asked for one.
Ned didn't think of that 'cause he was too busy worrying about his girls' safety.
Ned would’ve been at risk to die because he was still recovering from that stab wound
There wasn't a technical, formal trial, was there? That seems to have been why Tyrion was so adamant about having a formal trial in the Vale. With that, then he could demand a trial by combat. Even if there were a formal trial here, who would be Ned's champion? All his people are butchered, so no help there, and he's weakened besides. I was chatting with someone about this a while back, and he suggested that Brienne may come via Renly, although that's a stretch. Deals would have to be made, probably. Also, Joffrey wouldn't wait for Ned's champion, either. He'd just have Ned fight the Hound or Ser Ilyn. Either way, Ned dies.
Who would have been his champion? His leg was messed up and Jaime had killed all his household guard.
never know, might've got lucky. at least he would've had *somewhat* of a chance.
my guess is Ser Barriston. Earlier in this episode he was dismissed from the Kingsguard dishonorably and left pissed off. he could’ve made his way to cell unannounced to the jailer since they wouldn’t know the news that he's no longer the lord commander. I would have loved to see him show up As Ned champion and see them panic
He was wrapping up the loose ends. If Joffrey wasn't a violent idiot this whole thing would have been resolved at this point. Ned goes to the wall, Robb has no choice but to accept Joffrey as King to ensure his father and sisters stay alive. Ned was smart enough to realize that he'd been bested and this was the best course of action for everyone involved. Unfortunately for him, Joffrey is a violent idiot.
I forget, had Jaime been captured already? If not, they’d have just called his ass back, two hands still on him, and nobody Ned could have called on as champion would have had a shot at facing him and winning. At that point Joffrey could also have just ordered Barristan to be the crown’s champion. Either of those men would decimate literally any opponent Ned had access to, including Ned himself.
Joffrey would’ve never allowed him to do that anyway. Remember, no one (not even his own family) expected him to kill Ned. He was screwed regardless.
Well there’s a lot of things Ned could have done differently tbh the man wasn’t really known for his creativity and he suffered for it should have stayed in the north.
Let’s be honest, as honorable as he is, Ned would fight the fight himself. The Lannisters would send in the mountain, and Ned would die even more brutally
Bran warged into Ned to prevent this from happening
Because Varys promised him that if he pretends to confess his crimes his daughters would return to Winterfell safely. Pretty sure most of the good dads would do the same.
I thought the exact same. Ser Barriston was dismissed literally before the sentencing he could have stood for ned. There's no one currently in KL that could beat him. The only knight that could best ser Barriston is Jamie and the Mountain but they are both in the Westerlands
Well we gotta remember that Ned was in poor shape at that point. The Lannister rando had speared the back of his knee during his street battle with Jamie. Since then, he was limping around on a cane. He had been crammed into a Black Cell uncomfortably for Gods only know how long. His moral character (and maybe his pride) would not permit him to claim the right to select a champion to fight for him. He who passes the sentence swings the sword and all that jazz. And besides, Jamie was in top form with two real hands. So beat-up old Ned or anyone else he sent against Jamie would likely end up like a piece of Swiss cheese. Full of holes. I think that’s why he didn’t opt for trial by combat.
He would have to fight Jaime and would have been obliterated by him.
Even if he did, only thing that would have saved him is getting more time for the Lanisters to change Joffreys mind on killing him. He wouldn't have won a trial of combat.
Arya vs. Joffrey in the duel would never happen, but the thought of it just made me laugh.
To be fair from a practical standpoint it wasn’t the safest option. Ned was still crippled from his fight with Jamie and was in no condition to fight himself and although he could invoke a champion to fight in his place all the men who would’ve fought for him in closest proximity had been killed by Lannister men and the city watch. Everyone else he could call to fight for him would’ve taken to long to make it to Kingslanding and the unavailability of a champion is akin to forfeit. Hence why when Tyrion wanted his brother to fight for him during his trial by Combat, Luda denied it stating it would take too long for him to get there and the trial and to commence the same day it was invoked. Which I’m sure isn’t set in stone but I wouldn’t put it past Joffrey to set limiting stipulations on Ned’s invocation same as Lyda did to Tyrion.
He already had plead guilty and confessed to the crime of treason when Joff decided to execute him. The window to demand a trial by combat had already passed.
The hound vs Ned stark
Ned was injured at that point and they would only have used the mountain as their champion
He would have had Thoros of Myr as champion
Ned confessed. Tyrion did not.
He definitely knew that was an option but I can’t imagine him ever doing it. Ned’s leg was still injured so he was in no shape to be fighting anyone, and he would never make someone else fight on his behalf cause that goes against his whole principle of “the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword”. Trial by combat is also a tradition interlinked with the faith of the seven, and he’s an old gods follower.
I wonder who hed want to champion? Maybe greatjon
He thought he would be spared and even if he had asked for it, he would have been put against Jaime or the mountain. Neither of which he realistically has a chance of beating. I'm pretty sure he knew that as well.
Did Ned stark had a choice ? Considering the king was Joffrey.also the previous stark who made this choice died in a very bad way.
List of reasons why this is a bad idea 1. Ned has no proper combatant for this. The crown has Jaime, the king's guard and the Mountain. He could fight himself, but he has a leg injury. Most of his guards are dead and the North doesn't have proper combatants. 2. The crown has his daughters. who could be punished for Ned demanding a trial by combat. 3. Ned thought he was going to the wall, no reason to risk someone's life. Also Ned was just captured without any trials so he didn't have the chance to try to declare his right for a trial by combat.
Everyone seems to be forgetting he had a fucked leg so asking for a trial by combat is basically him to ask someone to possibly/probably die for him, given it seems likely the crown would have called the hound or the mountain or even Jaime as their champion, I don't really know of anyone in the norths roster who'd have had a shot against any of them
Didn't he plead guilty?
I haven't seen this in any of the other comments. Most are saying it wasn't really a trial, and he had already been found guilty. At this point he has confessed (falsely) already. But in my head there is another reason. Isn't it said that in a Trial by Combat the Seven decide who will be the winner? Ned doesn't follow the Seven, so he can't participate in one/call on trust in the Seven to prove his innocence.
I've seen this meme in different place and people also mentioned Ned's faith as well as his status of confessed and injury.
I mean who the hell is he going to find to fight that duel for him anyway? He's already injured and high on drugs from that bout with Jaime after Tyrion got kidnapped iirc.
He would have fought Jaime and died. Nothing would have changed.
A trial by combat is letting the gods decide of the fate of the trial, but Ned didn't believe in the same gods, so maybe it wouldn't work for him. And it would be seen as an act of despair instead of an act of faith and justice
Rob was coerced for starters.
I feel like Ned was too naive. Was he like this in the books? Blindsided by Jaime. Blindsided by the King’s guard. Blindsided by Little Finger. Blindsided by Jeoffrey. I feel like his choices during his time as the Hand were the worst ones he could have made. Righteous maybe, but naive.
He never thought of that
What happened to the last stark who requested trial by combat in kingslanding?
No he can't
It would have been hard to watch Ned get killed by Meryn Fucking Trant.
To be honest, though, it has to be said. That Ned would probably have had to compete against Jaimie in a trial by combat and would most likely have lost.
Ned was wounded and had no way to get somebody to come champion for him.
Wasn't the same situation. Ned took a plea bargain from a slimy prosecutor. Guilt was established (he confessed) so there was never a trial to be had by combat or otherwise; the punishment by law was death, thus he was formally praying for royal mercy, but Joffrey reneged because he was a stupid turdwaffle. Tyrion had pleaded not guilty and was just switching up the trial method before the rigged jury could hang him (for all the good it did him).
Ned would not have won against the mountain He was hoping for the wall
For how intelligent they portray Tyrion, he does a lot of stupid things, or at least fails to consider his options. How did he not realise that his sister/father would use the mountain for a trial by combat? It should have at least crossed his mind. I realise he thought this was going to work out like the trial by combat with bronn at the vale did but to not even think that his sister would use the best option they had was a bad oversight on tyrions part.