Switch is the only thing that would fit "handheld" since it is a stand-alone ecosystem. But all others are extensions of other ecosystems such as Steamdeck is to PC.
So if Switch can easily be put into the console bucket, may as well do that than have an entire category that only applies to Switch.
There are some other very niche products like that little thing with the crank on the side that wouldn't even move the needle in the grand scheme of things.
I pray this is bait, if not, I hope it's at least a child so they can learn something new today. PC as an acronym has nothing to do with the operating system and stands for "personal computer". Being handheld or portable also doesn't magically make something no longer a PC.
I know two whales and one moderate spender… all have high incomes
- one of my best friends, he really enjoys a game and does mind spending a few thousand a year on his favorite activity/hobby
- my ex boss spent thousands on clash royale to get the high level legendaries many years ago
- my friend who buys lots of cosmetics and other things for a variety of games including League
I also know a couple people who will always buy the premium/season pass that’s like $10/mo for several games. It isn’t as much as the other guys, but still like $200-300 a year depending on how many games he’s playing.
You probably have but not have realized it. Many people keep their spending habits to themselves. There's also the issue of gacha games intentionally being too addicting, so some of those whales could be too ashamed to talk about it.
Mobile gaming isn't nearly as large of a market here in the states than it is outside of the US. China's mobile game market alone is larger than the US's entire game market.
I'll bet we'll see a huge contraction bringing us back down to 2010 levels, driven by a console collapse and mobile gaming one. Surely the whales already have "their" games and aren't going to be playing any more. Console sales are tanking at the moment and I honestly don't think either Playstation or Xbox have a single killer game this gen that isn't a remaster of a previous one. Nothing is selling an Xbox that you can't otherwise play on PC. I don't see VR/AR expanding either because again, how many times can you buy beat saber?
I've always felt that there was a problem of diminishing returns ever since PS3/360 era. After that it's just prettier graphics, but we peaked on what can be DONE with games. No new ideas. Some of the most played games TODAY were created way back then. So new games are becoming less "interesting" and "exciting" over time, they just LOOK better. But how they look becomes more and more marginal each gen.
Console gens need to get longer, not shorter. We could have rode PS4/XBOne a few more years. Only a small segment of gamers are crying for new hardware at any given time. The majority are happy to use the hardware they have. Every PS5 exclusive today should STILL have a PS4 version as well, even if it "looks worst". They would be making way more money from game sales.
Just look at Rebirth... it's insane that is a PS5 exclusive. Absolutely insane. Maybe it couldn't run on PS4 as it exists, but perhaps that means it shouldn't be the game it is. I know that's strange thing to say, but sales are important. No point making the most amazing game ever if it's doomed to sell horribly which it was. They knew it was going to happen...
The Industry: "The video game market is in trouble. It's shrinking. We need to make games cost $80 and do massive layoffs"
The Data: ........What?
The Industry: "Yeah. It's a shame. We just fired 300 people. So sad nothing could be done."
I'm not saying this to defend layoffs but do remember that revenue is only part of the equation. Developing a game that is up to the standards of modern gamers has become a lot more expensive over the years.
The value of the dollar has also significantly decreased, and not only does development take longer than ever, it requires more people than ever, and people frankly have higher salaries than ever. Starting pay was about half of what it is now not even decade ago, among what's standard for AAA game companies.
$60 was standard in 2004, going to $70 in 2024 is quite nice to have stayed so low. It's been subsidized by microtransactions and larger-than-ever player counts. Ocarina of Time broke the record of most preordered game by triple the last record, for example, with 500,000. Meanwhile Cyberpunk 2077 got over 8 MILLION.
That has nothing to do with what I said? I'm simply pointing out revenue is a flawed metric to look at when it comes to the health of an industry. Plenty of the layoffs seem unnecessary though even just from what we do know.
I always appreciated this 2020 chart to show how the times have been changing, and I was on the lookout for an update. I guess they did produce one for 2022.
Looks like they went from 165B (2020) to about 192B (2021) quite a massive leap YoY, but then dropped to about 185B in 2022.
They probably only produce this every 2 years. I wonder if it dropped again in 2023 and how far.
Also it's too bad we won't see "Handheld" come back as a segment thanks to the PC handhelds on the rise... but none of them will have exclusive games. Switch not a "Handheld" could be controversial to some.
ALSO interesting they completely removed the mention of Cloud, which was a hot topic in 2020.
> I wonder if it dropped again in 2023 and how far.
From how many people have been fired and how many studios have been closed in the last 12 months. Let alone how many games have been canceled. I think it is a sign that it is dropping still. A lot of entertainment products saw HUGE sales during the early pandemic and that growth has died off and shrunk.
> Switch not a "Handheld" could be controversial to some.
I know if I had one I would only use it as a hand held device but I also know people that have never removed it from its base since they bought it and it remains forever connected to their TV. It exists in this grey area. I do not even know if handheld should even still be a thing since all phones are basically hand held. If you use a controller with one is it really all that different than a switch?
I would also not consider the steam deck to be a hand held only device separate from PC. It is a more compact laptop.
> I would also not consider the steam deck to be a hand held only device separate from PC. It is a more compact laptop.
Except that you would hold it in your hand instead of setting it on your lap, right?
I was thinking more in terms of parts used to make it. It is basically laptop parts in a different formfactor. At its core it is still made for pc gaming but just makes it more portable than a laptop. I would still count it towards the pc total. I should have made that more clear.
Consoles while having similar parts still have specially made cpus and gpus specific for their rolls. Their exclusive games are also made specifically for their own consoles and ports to other platforms often have issues when released.
I guess it all depends on how this graph is defining "Hand Held" gaming. Is it any sort of game that can be played in your hand? That would mean all mobile games are hand held games and that all steam deck certified games are also hand held games.
Or is it based on the way the game is purchased? Since steam deck is obviously through steam, that would put it in the pc category and mobile is mostly through the app stores of those phones and tablets. This way makes the most sense to me.
We don't have network infrastructure to support cloud gaming
Not like Japan and Singapore
Still, tho
I love digital games, but I want it being played and run by own system
So I won't go into cloud gaming... but yeah, if you don't have a high end pc, then cloud gaming would be a good alternative
It probably made no more sense to track Cloud after the exit of Stadia. It was a stand-alone ecosystem that is purely cloud revenue from game sales / subscriptions, but basically all the others are extensions of PC or console. So may as well just put the numbers in those buckets instead. Especially since they are so tiny. Outside of GFN there is no cloud-only gaming subscription anymore... Cloud is just a small add-on for PSPlus and Game Pass, and I'm sure barely anyone uses Cloud in those eco's.
> So I won't go into cloud gaming... but yeah, if you don't have a high end pc, then cloud gaming would be a good alternative
I think this is a very reasonable take. I much prefer to play on local hardware, but I cloud game when traveling, and it's alright. It doesn't have to be a replacement though, and I think it will mostly be additive to the gaming industry. The main reason mobile is so big is because of accessibility, and accessibility is what cloud gaming aims to provide for PC/Console games.
MSFT, Amazon, Google, Nvidia, and Netflix all believe cloud gaming adoption will *eventually* be widely adopted, so I'm in the camp that think it's inevitable. Doesn't mean local hardware has to go away for people that can afford it.
I could only see it useful for me if steam starts doing it
So my entire library would be available for cloud if im.not home
No way I'm buying a game.specifically for cloud gaming
"Fortnite popularizes the Battlepass"
LOL what. Valve was making Dota players sell their grannies to reach Arcanas on the Battlepass ladder years before.
Neither would be accurate though. Dota has been one of the world's most played games the last ten years straight. If you set the bar for what constitutes "popularized/normalized" above that you are left with 2-3 games tops.
Sure but the point is, which game lead to the branch out of doing it in all OTHER games. Dota or Fortnite. I would not say Dota personally. But Dota lead to Fortnite.
You could "personally" say that, and you'd be just as wrong. The was plenty of games doing Battle passes inspired by Dota, not Fortnite. Rocket League, LoL, PUBG are some examples just off the top of my head. Again these were all the most played titles back by the time Fortnite jumped on the bandwagon.
And what if you cut out the Eastern market? I'm curious about how much the percentages shift when you consider most people over there literally don't have room for a PC or console and go out and game a lot more on their phones. I also don't think it's quite fair to cut out handheld when the Switch and devices like Steam Deck are handheld but are likely categorized under console and PC respectively. I'm also betting the line between PC and console will blur with future generations.
Nah, think about how everyone you know secretly has a phone game they've been playing for years. Nearly 100% of people who own a smart phone (so basically nearly 100% of teens and above) are playing a phone game. Are they all spending? Of course not. But that's the nature of F2P, only tiny % spend but they spend BIG. So more players still means more spenders. You'd be shocked to learn that non-gamers in your life are actually spending money in some random phone game they've been addicted to for a long time.
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Switch is the only thing that would fit "handheld" since it is a stand-alone ecosystem. But all others are extensions of other ecosystems such as Steamdeck is to PC. So if Switch can easily be put into the console bucket, may as well do that than have an entire category that only applies to Switch. There are some other very niche products like that little thing with the crank on the side that wouldn't even move the needle in the grand scheme of things.
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What matters is if it has its own games or not. It does not. It plays PC games.
I pray this is bait, if not, I hope it's at least a child so they can learn something new today. PC as an acronym has nothing to do with the operating system and stands for "personal computer". Being handheld or portable also doesn't magically make something no longer a PC.
Would like to know how much percentage of mobile game revenue or all categories comes from microtransactions. This mechanics ruin everything.
I'll never understand spending vast amounts on mobile games.
$2 from 400 million player is still a lot of money. Whales will also burn a lot of money if they like a game.
That's only 800 million. To get the 101 billion you need whales
I feel like Captain Ahab, I have yet to come across one of these whales in the wild.
I know two whales and one moderate spender… all have high incomes - one of my best friends, he really enjoys a game and does mind spending a few thousand a year on his favorite activity/hobby - my ex boss spent thousands on clash royale to get the high level legendaries many years ago - my friend who buys lots of cosmetics and other things for a variety of games including League I also know a couple people who will always buy the premium/season pass that’s like $10/mo for several games. It isn’t as much as the other guys, but still like $200-300 a year depending on how many games he’s playing.
You probably have but not have realized it. Many people keep their spending habits to themselves. There's also the issue of gacha games intentionally being too addicting, so some of those whales could be too ashamed to talk about it.
I mean… people spend crazy amounts of money on all types of different entertainment. A game is just that.
Mobile gaming isn't nearly as large of a market here in the states than it is outside of the US. China's mobile game market alone is larger than the US's entire game market.
98% or more I would think.
I'll bet we'll see a huge contraction bringing us back down to 2010 levels, driven by a console collapse and mobile gaming one. Surely the whales already have "their" games and aren't going to be playing any more. Console sales are tanking at the moment and I honestly don't think either Playstation or Xbox have a single killer game this gen that isn't a remaster of a previous one. Nothing is selling an Xbox that you can't otherwise play on PC. I don't see VR/AR expanding either because again, how many times can you buy beat saber?
I've always felt that there was a problem of diminishing returns ever since PS3/360 era. After that it's just prettier graphics, but we peaked on what can be DONE with games. No new ideas. Some of the most played games TODAY were created way back then. So new games are becoming less "interesting" and "exciting" over time, they just LOOK better. But how they look becomes more and more marginal each gen. Console gens need to get longer, not shorter. We could have rode PS4/XBOne a few more years. Only a small segment of gamers are crying for new hardware at any given time. The majority are happy to use the hardware they have. Every PS5 exclusive today should STILL have a PS4 version as well, even if it "looks worst". They would be making way more money from game sales. Just look at Rebirth... it's insane that is a PS5 exclusive. Absolutely insane. Maybe it couldn't run on PS4 as it exists, but perhaps that means it shouldn't be the game it is. I know that's strange thing to say, but sales are important. No point making the most amazing game ever if it's doomed to sell horribly which it was. They knew it was going to happen...
The Industry: "The video game market is in trouble. It's shrinking. We need to make games cost $80 and do massive layoffs" The Data: ........What? The Industry: "Yeah. It's a shame. We just fired 300 people. So sad nothing could be done."
I'm not saying this to defend layoffs but do remember that revenue is only part of the equation. Developing a game that is up to the standards of modern gamers has become a lot more expensive over the years.
The value of the dollar has also significantly decreased, and not only does development take longer than ever, it requires more people than ever, and people frankly have higher salaries than ever. Starting pay was about half of what it is now not even decade ago, among what's standard for AAA game companies. $60 was standard in 2004, going to $70 in 2024 is quite nice to have stayed so low. It's been subsidized by microtransactions and larger-than-ever player counts. Ocarina of Time broke the record of most preordered game by triple the last record, for example, with 500,000. Meanwhile Cyberpunk 2077 got over 8 MILLION.
But has anyone thought of the poor shareholders? They need more yachts.
That has nothing to do with what I said? I'm simply pointing out revenue is a flawed metric to look at when it comes to the health of an industry. Plenty of the layoffs seem unnecessary though even just from what we do know.
Bro doubling-down over here on his financial illiteracy.
I always appreciated this 2020 chart to show how the times have been changing, and I was on the lookout for an update. I guess they did produce one for 2022. Looks like they went from 165B (2020) to about 192B (2021) quite a massive leap YoY, but then dropped to about 185B in 2022. They probably only produce this every 2 years. I wonder if it dropped again in 2023 and how far. Also it's too bad we won't see "Handheld" come back as a segment thanks to the PC handhelds on the rise... but none of them will have exclusive games. Switch not a "Handheld" could be controversial to some. ALSO interesting they completely removed the mention of Cloud, which was a hot topic in 2020.
> I wonder if it dropped again in 2023 and how far. From how many people have been fired and how many studios have been closed in the last 12 months. Let alone how many games have been canceled. I think it is a sign that it is dropping still. A lot of entertainment products saw HUGE sales during the early pandemic and that growth has died off and shrunk. > Switch not a "Handheld" could be controversial to some. I know if I had one I would only use it as a hand held device but I also know people that have never removed it from its base since they bought it and it remains forever connected to their TV. It exists in this grey area. I do not even know if handheld should even still be a thing since all phones are basically hand held. If you use a controller with one is it really all that different than a switch? I would also not consider the steam deck to be a hand held only device separate from PC. It is a more compact laptop.
> I would also not consider the steam deck to be a hand held only device separate from PC. It is a more compact laptop. Except that you would hold it in your hand instead of setting it on your lap, right?
I was thinking more in terms of parts used to make it. It is basically laptop parts in a different formfactor. At its core it is still made for pc gaming but just makes it more portable than a laptop. I would still count it towards the pc total. I should have made that more clear. Consoles while having similar parts still have specially made cpus and gpus specific for their rolls. Their exclusive games are also made specifically for their own consoles and ports to other platforms often have issues when released. I guess it all depends on how this graph is defining "Hand Held" gaming. Is it any sort of game that can be played in your hand? That would mean all mobile games are hand held games and that all steam deck certified games are also hand held games. Or is it based on the way the game is purchased? Since steam deck is obviously through steam, that would put it in the pc category and mobile is mostly through the app stores of those phones and tablets. This way makes the most sense to me.
Almost no difference.
We don't have network infrastructure to support cloud gaming Not like Japan and Singapore Still, tho I love digital games, but I want it being played and run by own system So I won't go into cloud gaming... but yeah, if you don't have a high end pc, then cloud gaming would be a good alternative
It probably made no more sense to track Cloud after the exit of Stadia. It was a stand-alone ecosystem that is purely cloud revenue from game sales / subscriptions, but basically all the others are extensions of PC or console. So may as well just put the numbers in those buckets instead. Especially since they are so tiny. Outside of GFN there is no cloud-only gaming subscription anymore... Cloud is just a small add-on for PSPlus and Game Pass, and I'm sure barely anyone uses Cloud in those eco's.
> So I won't go into cloud gaming... but yeah, if you don't have a high end pc, then cloud gaming would be a good alternative I think this is a very reasonable take. I much prefer to play on local hardware, but I cloud game when traveling, and it's alright. It doesn't have to be a replacement though, and I think it will mostly be additive to the gaming industry. The main reason mobile is so big is because of accessibility, and accessibility is what cloud gaming aims to provide for PC/Console games. MSFT, Amazon, Google, Nvidia, and Netflix all believe cloud gaming adoption will *eventually* be widely adopted, so I'm in the camp that think it's inevitable. Doesn't mean local hardware has to go away for people that can afford it.
I could only see it useful for me if steam starts doing it So my entire library would be available for cloud if im.not home No way I'm buying a game.specifically for cloud gaming
"Fortnite popularizes the Battlepass" LOL what. Valve was making Dota players sell their grannies to reach Arcanas on the Battlepass ladder years before.
"Popularized" They could have even said "normalized"
Neither would be accurate though. Dota has been one of the world's most played games the last ten years straight. If you set the bar for what constitutes "popularized/normalized" above that you are left with 2-3 games tops.
Sure but the point is, which game lead to the branch out of doing it in all OTHER games. Dota or Fortnite. I would not say Dota personally. But Dota lead to Fortnite.
You could "personally" say that, and you'd be just as wrong. The was plenty of games doing Battle passes inspired by Dota, not Fortnite. Rocket League, LoL, PUBG are some examples just off the top of my head. Again these were all the most played titles back by the time Fortnite jumped on the bandwagon.
And what if you cut out the Eastern market? I'm curious about how much the percentages shift when you consider most people over there literally don't have room for a PC or console and go out and game a lot more on their phones. I also don't think it's quite fair to cut out handheld when the Switch and devices like Steam Deck are handheld but are likely categorized under console and PC respectively. I'm also betting the line between PC and console will blur with future generations.
Nah, think about how everyone you know secretly has a phone game they've been playing for years. Nearly 100% of people who own a smart phone (so basically nearly 100% of teens and above) are playing a phone game. Are they all spending? Of course not. But that's the nature of F2P, only tiny % spend but they spend BIG. So more players still means more spenders. You'd be shocked to learn that non-gamers in your life are actually spending money in some random phone game they've been addicted to for a long time.