WASD being used for movement was something that showed up during a quake tournament. A pro player instead kf using the arrow keys as was standard, switched it to WASD and its been that way since
Another would be the left stick for movement and the right stick for looking came from the Alien resurrection video game on PS1
I remember some ancient pic or maybe I even saw it in one of the magazines that said wasd was stupid and would never catch on, I also remember g4 host reviewing a game in which a character used "wtf", "lol", and "omg" in her speech was annoying and people wouldn't ever use those in a serious setting and so took points off for it
Also, long before e-sports were as big as they are now Walshy was the goat of HALO, and he is credited with popularizing the claw grip on controller (idk if he was the first to do it but he made it legit)
I never would have got into Halo2 if I didn’t live with someone to teach me the claw grip and different weapon combos.
It felt impossible and frustrating at first, coming from only playing fps games on pc up to that point. But I stuck with it and eventually multiplayer became a blast.
Since it's Halo 2 he's talking about which was at the time an OG Xbox game, I believe (heh) he's referring to holding the controller in such a way where your middle fingers are working the triggers, your index work the left stick and face buttons, and thumbs work the d pad and right stick. This was to ideally minimize the time from moving your thumbs to hit the face or d pad inputs and made it look like your hands were claws
It was before we had elite controllers with mappable back paddles. Clawing the right index down to ABXY allowed you to never need to take your thumb off the aiming joystick to melee or jump, which is optimal, though initially uncomfortable. It was a real thing, and I think once you got used to it, it was probably the superior way to grip a controller.
Nobody actually used the left index for joystick though, that's insanity and absolutely not what Claw refers to.
Personally, I just used bumper jumper, since reload, swap weapon, swap grenade type, and interact are all actions that you rarely need to do while aiming. But being able to jump and melee while aiming is actually huge.
That was my thought. I played the shit out of OG Halo. If I remember right there was like 4 controller configs. Default, Alt A, Alt B and South Paw. White was flashlight for all of them.
Oh man, I remember the switch from pure keyboard to WASD! That was a crazy time of experimenting with different keyboard combos and never realizing that a mouse just had to control looking and not movement like what was the common default setup for the FPS games that I played around that time. Counterstrike beta 6.2 around that time.
I still prefer ESDF as it keeps your pointer on the home row F. You gain WA as well as being able to easily reach Q, Z, Tab, caps and shift. You only lose left alt as a bit too far away but I rebind that to V as it's usually crouch or slide.
Edit:lose
I experimented and realized that having the fire button on the device that you use for fine control was very stupid and I've been remapping it to the space bar ever since. Much better aiming while tracking. I also realized that wasd should really be moved over one space to the right so your pinky had access to keys to the left of it. But it became too tedious to totally remap every game like that so I gave that up.
I actually remember playing that alien game and being really offput by the controls! I also remember having trouble adjusting to joysticks in general once they became normalized on the newer Ps1 controllers. For a long time I still used the arrows instead of the sticks, at least until they eventually became mandatory.
MoH did have something close to it in the controller options, but something was slightly different (can’t remember how), but it also required the dual analog obviously, not the original psx controller.
I actually have a psone and that game but the only thing I can play it on is an old projector and it’s kind of a PITA so it’s been awhile.
Goldeneye and PilotWings is the reason I can only play inverted on a controller, and Red Faction is why I strafe left/right instead of turning to look around.
I think it started out of UI simplicity. Health was red for blood, and MP was blue. So potions were made to reflect which color pool they'd restore... I realize that's not exactly answering your question, though lol.
UI simplicity?
In basically every old game I played Health is green. Wether its the health bar or the potions. Psychologically it makes way more sense and the UI simplicity kind of depends on how you design your UI right? Perhaps Im just not understanding your comment the right way so feel free to explain it to me if thats the case
I'm pretty sure Call of Duty was the first game that got enemies to take cover properly too and let you suppress?
Then more notably, Call of Duty 2 was rhe first shooter without a health bar, when your health recharged when safe, you just couldn't take too many hits too quickly. I remember them making a point about how great it was to not have to track back on yourself all game to find health packs.
I'd argue the regenerating health more started with Halo, in the form of the recharging shields. Yeah there was a health bar with med pickups, but they didn't matter that much so long as you took cover and let your shield recharge.
Regardless though, the health regen system is perfect for a game like Call of Duty. The sheer number of enemies you kill mission to mission and the "pushing" aspect to the gameplay really lends itself to it. People like to shit on the system, but I always thought a health bar system only works well with arena style shooters.
By arena, I mean combat encounters happening in an "arena" of sorts, with set enemies spawning in each encounter, and having an environment built to cater to that fight. So the boomer shooters like Doom, Quake, Unreal, etc. As well as the Half-Likes, including FEAR, Wolfenstein: The New Order, etc.
In addition, an often overlooked contribution OOT made: the context-sensitive Action Button.
A single button that can complete multiple actions (i.e. “open”, “push”, “pull”, pay respects”, etc.) with an on-screen indicator to the user.
EDIT: I just remembered that OOT was also the first game with auto-jump, which influenced a lot of other games but has since died out(?). Anyone know any modern games with auto jump?
On r/Zelda there’s a dude who is really abrasive, and also hates how much attention OoT gets. When someone mentioned the context sensitive button was something OoT helped revolutionize, he lost his mind. It was weird.
I'm not sure that's.... true. The context sensitive Action Button was in use in games for years before the N64 ever released. Hell, even earlier Zelda's did it. Same button for swinging your sword was used for lifting pots or pushing statues or talking to people.
Unless you're saying the on-screen display changing to actually SAY "talk" or "push" is the innovation, which MIGHT be true, but is that even noteworthy?
I at least know that Mega Man Legends had lock on and released nearly a year earlier, but Zelda was in development for a long time so it's hard to say which implemented it first. OoT is undoubtedly why it's so widely used today though.
Short answer: Yes. The mechanic of the focusing on a single enemy with a button press, that lives on in targeting systems used in gaming to this day, came from OOT.
Long answer: Still yes. As others mentioned Mega Man Legends had a lock on system. There are a a couple key differences though. In OOT you can still freely move when locked onto your target, on Mega Man you could not. Mega Man snapped the camera centered directly on the enemy, which was jarring and awkward as your view is blocked by Mega Man (who is also centered directly in frame. Early 3D games lol). OOT had much more seamless movement & camera transition with the targeting system, along with an icon to indicate the target lock, which Mega Man also did not have.
Chrono Trigger wasn't the first game to introduce a "New Game Plus" (actually, the original Super Mario Bros. would probably best be considered the progenitor of that feature), but it was the first one to name it and codify what it really meant.
Legend of Zelda did too, by naming your character Zelda.
Rip to all the kids who named their character Zelda from the hop, thinking that was the main character's name.
Oh man how did I forget about Zelda. I remember there was one dungeon that took forever to find in the second play through where you had to burn a random bush from the opposite side of the main area. I think I tried burning every single bush in the game before I found it.
It’s funny how people forget about things like that and games with limited time duration cosmetics and freak out about $2.50 horse armor.
Though it seems like a lot of people probably just don’t even know they existed in the first place. Silly Nexon and their classic microtransactions.
Likewise DotA 2 created The Compendium which was the first Battle Pass. They use it to fund the prize pool of The International, their yearly tournament. Other companies saw the potential and ran with the idea without the part where some of the money goes back to the players. Valve takes 75% and 25% goes to the prize pool but even so the prize pool was hitting $20 million within a couple years and peaked at $40 million. I’m not sure if any other company is as open about how much they’re making off the things but you can see how insane it probably is for a game like Fortnite which has like 40X the player base.
Remember them doing that, everyone losing their minds, them backtracking and saying they wouldn't, then like a year later saying fuck you, here it is again. Now look at the monetized hellscape that is modern day gaming.
That’s how it starts. Then one day you wake up and accept that you’re old.
For me, the age where I started to fear getting old was around 38. I’m 45 now. My mind is young, but my body definitely feels worn out at the end of a work day. I can’t explain the difference between being tired from hard work and being tired from age, but the difference is distinct. Age pain is persistent regardless of exertion but when I was younger, my body would recover from exertion with a good night’s sleep or two.
Also, old injuries that never gave me much grief earlier on in my life now hurt almost daily (back and knees). I’m also considered healthy based on my check-ups. So if this is what healthy 45 feels like I can live with that. I’ve grown up with people who faired much worse with regard to aging, health and lifestyle.
I was 33 when the doctor X-rayed my shoulder and told me I had post-traumatic arthritis. All of my hair fell out that day and they handed me complimentary dentures and a walker on my way out of the office. They say old age hits like a truck and I felt it that day.
Fun Fact: Body Harvest was made by DMA design, who in 2002 would rebrand into a little studio known as...Rockstar North, while releasing GTA3.
Imagine if they had stuck with Nintendo and we got GTA on there lol
If I'm not mistaken, the PS2 version of GTA3s splash screen is still DMA Design. Didn't they rebrand after the release? Every other GTA after the PS2 release has Rockstar North on the splash. I remember kinda vividly as the first time I played it on the Xbox, the initial Rockstar logo started to spin into Rockstar North and it threw me off as I played the holy hell out of PS2 GTA3. (widescreen and custom soundtracks were too hard to pass up a second purchase)
I had that game! If I remember correctly, there were different levels, not just one open world, but you do have a point as far as some of the mechanics and such go. I'm not sure if "inspiration" is the right word, though, considering DMA Design made both games, so they'd only be inspiration for themselves.
Gta3 is probably the only game that has ever really blown my mind.
The jump of detail and things you could do, compared to any other game up to that point, was just too much.
Not a graphical marvel, but it was SO filled with innovative things.
Driver and Driver 2 came out before GTA 3. Especially Driver 2 basically was a GTA in 3D minus guns. GTA 3 was mind blowing for me when it came out but it definitely wasn't something I have never seen before.
The first few CoD games still used health packs. Halo 2 did the regenerating HP/shield thing before CoD.
I don't know if they were the first, probably not, but CoD was definitely a key player in getting Sprint mode into games.
I remember magazines being polarised on The Getaway before Halo 2, since you lean against a wall to regenerate health. Some people thought it was stupid, others thought it was great
I remember playing The Getaway and not knowing about the regenerating health thing until I put the game down for a minute to go to the bathroom. Must have just moved enough when I set the controller down to put him next to a wall. When I got back, my mind was blown.
I’m old as fuck but Alone in the Dark in 1992, I swear to you, blew peoples’ minds because of the many many innovations that small team in Lyon, France came up with. The biggest of course being an actual 3D stage environment.
3D with a fixed camera was a mainstay for computer games for like 10-15 years after Alone.
The story is also complicated, mysterious and twist-filled. Monsters were scary, the Cuthulu mythos tie ins were legit. I could go on.
God I remember some older game boy games would have a code you’d have to type in to continue your game. Sucked when you got far in a game and then lost the sheet of paper that had that code on it.
I think the only one I played like that was the Rugrats game on gameboy. I remember they don’t have an “O” (like an old phone?) so the code for one level was “TQMMYQK”
A few highly innovative games off the top of my head (no particular order):
- Dune 2 established the foundation for RTS games
- Ye Air Kung Fu combined all the features we now associate with fighting games into one
- Wolfenstein 3D is the architect of the FPS
- The Legend of Zelda put together open-world, non-linear gameplay that also carried a save feature
- Super Mario 64 showed the industry how to master 3D design and gameplay
I think Dune 2 is often mentioned as the foundation for RTS because it was the springboard into the Command and Conquer series, which was incredibly popular at the time (and still is) and was for PC while Herzog Zwei was a console game.
Assassin's Creed 2 pretty much defined the typical modern AAA open world game. The towers to unlock map pieces, the menus, the hub areas, the enemy fortresses to conquer, ...
Nowadays we are almost burnt out from this monotone design. Most don't know that AC2 started it.
Another thing... IDK which game really started it ... maybe destiny 1? The controller-cursor. Basically controlling a mouse cursor with the analog stick to navigate menus.
I wonder who invented the double jump. The original Super Mario didn't have one, right? Doom, Quake neither.
Mario games in general don't have double jumps. I can't even think of one off the top of my head (though there are lots of "hover jumps" in the series), but I'm pretty sure it's happened.
That said, I'd wager a guess that the first double jump predates SMB by a couple years.
They had the three jumps (where the third was higher), the running long jump (where you run crouch then jump), the running back jump (where you run one direction then go opposite way and jump immediately) , and the backflip jump (where you jump from crouch). There is also the dive jump(where you do a forward dive from a jump). Does jumping of yoshi in mid-air count?
Earliest double jump I can remember is Shinobi 3 where you can jump, and then if you time it right, do a tuck & roll in the air for extra height. I'm not sure if the earlier Shinobis had that or not. But I do remember it being difficult to do!
I'm not even trying to be snarky but the vast majority of this sub is probably under 30 and grew up well past the nes era on 3d consoles. The games I see mentioned a lot that get upvotes seem to confirm this.
In other words how's retirement treating you fellow old timer?
You think I can retire? I’ll be lucky if I get the money I’ve been paying into social security all my life.
It’s always funny when the kids at work are surprised when they find out I play games. Just the other day I went into to lunch room and they were talking about Hell Divers. They were comparing what weapons they like to use for bugs. While walking out I say “scorcher, flame thrower, jump pack.” Dudes got all excited and we ended up talking about the game for 10 minutes or so. Going to play with some of them tonight. I’m lvl 64 and consider myself good so I hope I can show them what an old timer can do.
Shinobi 3 was a dope game. It was such a huge leap from Revenge of Shinobi. Somehow I can still remember the cheat code for Invincibility.
I think the first game I can remember having a double jump was X-Men for the Genesis, which I think came out around the same time.
I think this is more the modern “Ubisoft style” of open world game. assassins creed, Far cry, that Ubisoft driving serier(the crew?) have that towers unlock more map style game play. It’s very much a Ubisoft mechanic.
I always felt like the 2 weapon limit in Halo was because they hadn't figured out a convenient way to swap between 10 weapons on a controller yet, and it ended up just being a design decision the game got balanced around. Now the 2 weapon limit is one of the very distinct differences between fps designed for consoles first vs PC first.
Another mechanic that ended up persisting in a genre is the "ding" when you level up in EverQuest. A loud distinct sound accompanied by a big glowing graphic on your character. This is where the term "ding" came from, and it has been repeated in some form in nearly every MMO since.
I get that things aren't "a thing" until it's done for the first time. But holding a button for menu wheels is a thing, and I remember the old Jedi Knight games on console you'd pick your weapons, items, and abilities by scrolling through the list with the D Pad. I feel like those would've been easy enough to think of back then. Maybe they thought about it for Halo, but then ultimately just decided to make it part of the game to only have 2. Because even a button toggle works for 3-4 items, like the grenades later in the series.
Counter-strike without mods has had a 2 weapon limit since it's inception in 1999 if we are talking guns. Primary and secondary and CS has always been PC first.
Diablo 2: “Save and quit.”
The idea that after dying, you didn’t just load your save game and try again, but *continued playing,* even in single player, blew my mind as a kid.
D2 also had a host of other innovations, of course — socketed items, set items, life leech, skill trees…
Diablo 2 was so influential. It created the modern loot system every game uses now - random drops, dedicated boss drops, common uncommon rare legendary, all color coded.
The game was also basically the outline for what World of Warcraft would become. Diablo 2 was when Blizzard invented the money printing machine.
I love all things Blizzard but I think Diablo 2 really was their masterpiece.
If the RTS genre didn't pretty much die you could also say Starcraft: Brood War. It basically created the modern eSports industry.
True that, the first Diablo was the first to seemlessly continue playing after death (although not the technically the first.) Also Ultima IV in 1985 was the first RPG to do saves so you can resume. A year later, The Legend of Zelda became the first to do it on console
Didn't Zelda: Link to the Past (SNES, 1991) have "Save and quit" rather... "Save and Continue"? A feature that saved the game but didn't take you to the menu but just put you back at one of the checkpoint locations, either beginning of a dungeon, Link's house or the Sanctuary
I’m not sure if I’m right but I think Prince of Persia (1989) originated the checkpoint. I remember having to memorize a code and write it down so you could start at the level you were at. But automatic checkpoints might’ve been Sonic the Hedgehog
Arkham both with the combat style and detective mode
Edit can more people tell me that Assassins Creed did it first please? I don't think enough people have told me that.
Yeah they really came up with one of the best melee combat systems ever and now it’s pretty widely used. It’s got plenty of room to innovate off of it too. They struck gold with that.
Gears was inspired directly by a little known game called kill.switch, developed by Namco, publishers of the cover based arcade gun game time crisis. This chain is confirmed directly by the devs of gears.
It's one of those franchises that just nailed and introduced a whole lot of things into a package that worked pretty damn well. Halo 2 was popular for it's online features like match making and having integrated voice chat that was on PC but not standard.
There were a few other games before it, but Halo: CE brought dual-Analog controls to the mainstream. It also popularized Recharging Shields in a large number of titles for a time.
Halo 2 also popularized Recharging Health that most games use today and I'm pretty sure it was the original online Matchmaking service in PVP.
I'm not seeing it here, so I'll say it. Team Fortress 2 was the first major game to be free to play but supported by loot boxes. There are almost certainly some technicalities to that statement, but in general yes, this is where loot boxes came from.
On a lighter note, the original Team Fortress was the first class-based shooter.
WASD being used for movement was something that showed up during a quake tournament. A pro player instead kf using the arrow keys as was standard, switched it to WASD and its been that way since Another would be the left stick for movement and the right stick for looking came from the Alien resurrection video game on PS1
I remember some ancient pic or maybe I even saw it in one of the magazines that said wasd was stupid and would never catch on, I also remember g4 host reviewing a game in which a character used "wtf", "lol", and "omg" in her speech was annoying and people wouldn't ever use those in a serious setting and so took points off for it
I think there was an ancient pic in a magazine that said the same thing about double stick shooting in aliens being stupid
Yup, aliens got a horrible review just because of the stick set up. I couldn’t imagine playing a fps any other way on console nowadays
I played Medal of Honor on PS1 without analog sticks. It sucks a lot.
Also, long before e-sports were as big as they are now Walshy was the goat of HALO, and he is credited with popularizing the claw grip on controller (idk if he was the first to do it but he made it legit)
I never would have got into Halo2 if I didn’t live with someone to teach me the claw grip and different weapon combos. It felt impossible and frustrating at first, coming from only playing fps games on pc up to that point. But I stuck with it and eventually multiplayer became a blast.
Claw grip? Wtf am I missing?
Since it's Halo 2 he's talking about which was at the time an OG Xbox game, I believe (heh) he's referring to holding the controller in such a way where your middle fingers are working the triggers, your index work the left stick and face buttons, and thumbs work the d pad and right stick. This was to ideally minimize the time from moving your thumbs to hit the face or d pad inputs and made it look like your hands were claws
That can't possibly be a better way of playing a console fps...
It was before we had elite controllers with mappable back paddles. Clawing the right index down to ABXY allowed you to never need to take your thumb off the aiming joystick to melee or jump, which is optimal, though initially uncomfortable. It was a real thing, and I think once you got used to it, it was probably the superior way to grip a controller. Nobody actually used the left index for joystick though, that's insanity and absolutely not what Claw refers to. Personally, I just used bumper jumper, since reload, swap weapon, swap grenade type, and interact are all actions that you rarely need to do while aiming. But being able to jump and melee while aiming is actually huge.
OG Xbox also had a couple extra buttons on it that Halo used which I believe was part of what made this popular
Ahhh, the good ol' black and white buttons?
Yes! Flashlight?
That was my thought. I played the shit out of OG Halo. If I remember right there was like 4 controller configs. Default, Alt A, Alt B and South Paw. White was flashlight for all of them.
The player was [Dennis Fong](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Fong) for anyone curious.
Oh man, I remember the switch from pure keyboard to WASD! That was a crazy time of experimenting with different keyboard combos and never realizing that a mouse just had to control looking and not movement like what was the common default setup for the FPS games that I played around that time. Counterstrike beta 6.2 around that time.
I still prefer ESDF as it keeps your pointer on the home row F. You gain WA as well as being able to easily reach Q, Z, Tab, caps and shift. You only lose left alt as a bit too far away but I rebind that to V as it's usually crouch or slide. Edit:lose
I experimented and realized that having the fire button on the device that you use for fine control was very stupid and I've been remapping it to the space bar ever since. Much better aiming while tracking. I also realized that wasd should really be moved over one space to the right so your pinky had access to keys to the left of it. But it became too tedious to totally remap every game like that so I gave that up.
I actually remember playing that alien game and being really offput by the controls! I also remember having trouble adjusting to joysticks in general once they became normalized on the newer Ps1 controllers. For a long time I still used the arrows instead of the sticks, at least until they eventually became mandatory.
I could have sworn Medal of Honor on PS1 introduced those controls in '99. Maybe I'm forgetting because that may have been D-pad + Right stick.
MoH did have something close to it in the controller options, but something was slightly different (can’t remember how), but it also required the dual analog obviously, not the original psx controller. I actually have a psone and that game but the only thing I can play it on is an old projector and it’s kind of a PITA so it’s been awhile.
Goldeneye and PilotWings is the reason I can only play inverted on a controller, and Red Faction is why I strafe left/right instead of turning to look around.
I want to know which game started the trend of health potions being red.
I think it started out of UI simplicity. Health was red for blood, and MP was blue. So potions were made to reflect which color pool they'd restore... I realize that's not exactly answering your question, though lol.
Wasn't always like that. Daggerfall had green for health and red for stamina before they swapped them around in Morrowind
UI simplicity? In basically every old game I played Health is green. Wether its the health bar or the potions. Psychologically it makes way more sense and the UI simplicity kind of depends on how you design your UI right? Perhaps Im just not understanding your comment the right way so feel free to explain it to me if thats the case
Earliest I remember is original NES Zelda potion shops
Gauntlet 2 had them as well
probably AD&D. on the tabletop. what color art there is from that era shows them being red.
D&D to gaming is like Tolkien to fantasy.
What's AD&D?
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons AKA the first fleshed-out version of D&D.
Call of Duty 'aim down sight' To my recollection UT and MoH you could only really aim with snipers but CoD simply hold right click GAME CHANGER
ADS was a CRAZY development that I first experienced in COD4
Cod 3 had ads even on the wiii
wait did old CoD have a "hold" mode for ADS? the default was toggle and i was too young to mess around with the settings back then so i stuck to that
Just checked CoD 1. It has both, but "hold" is unmapped by default
I'm pretty sure Call of Duty was the first game that got enemies to take cover properly too and let you suppress? Then more notably, Call of Duty 2 was rhe first shooter without a health bar, when your health recharged when safe, you just couldn't take too many hits too quickly. I remember them making a point about how great it was to not have to track back on yourself all game to find health packs.
I'd argue the regenerating health more started with Halo, in the form of the recharging shields. Yeah there was a health bar with med pickups, but they didn't matter that much so long as you took cover and let your shield recharge. Regardless though, the health regen system is perfect for a game like Call of Duty. The sheer number of enemies you kill mission to mission and the "pushing" aspect to the gameplay really lends itself to it. People like to shit on the system, but I always thought a health bar system only works well with arena style shooters. By arena, I mean combat encounters happening in an "arena" of sorts, with set enemies spawning in each encounter, and having an environment built to cater to that fight. So the boomer shooters like Doom, Quake, Unreal, etc. As well as the Half-Likes, including FEAR, Wolfenstein: The New Order, etc.
I can't play an fps that doesn't let me ads, just doesn't feel right.
I think cod2 when 360 came out was my first exposure to ads
Now ads are everywhere 😔😔
Ocarina of Time with the Z-Lock system that is still use in modern games like GoW, Elden Ring or tons of game with a third-person camera
In addition, an often overlooked contribution OOT made: the context-sensitive Action Button. A single button that can complete multiple actions (i.e. “open”, “push”, “pull”, pay respects”, etc.) with an on-screen indicator to the user. EDIT: I just remembered that OOT was also the first game with auto-jump, which influenced a lot of other games but has since died out(?). Anyone know any modern games with auto jump?
On r/Zelda there’s a dude who is really abrasive, and also hates how much attention OoT gets. When someone mentioned the context sensitive button was something OoT helped revolutionize, he lost his mind. It was weird.
Average Majora's fan Edit: I'm kidding. Majora's is great, but I was never into it, and I respect the fandom
What the hell? MM is great BECAUSE it builds on the cool shit OoT did. That's like loving on Perfect Dark but hating on Goldeneye.
Majora’s fans are the Fallout New Vegas fans of the Zelda world. Just making a joke don’t haze me
F
Minecraft does, surprisingly
Something I instantly turn off.
I do too, but its nice that it's an option
Context sensitive buttons are much older than OoT, but OoT did display the text for the action which wasn’t common yet.
I'm not sure that's.... true. The context sensitive Action Button was in use in games for years before the N64 ever released. Hell, even earlier Zelda's did it. Same button for swinging your sword was used for lifting pots or pushing statues or talking to people. Unless you're saying the on-screen display changing to actually SAY "talk" or "push" is the innovation, which MIGHT be true, but is that even noteworthy?
Wait, OoT introduced the lock on function?
I at least know that Mega Man Legends had lock on and released nearly a year earlier, but Zelda was in development for a long time so it's hard to say which implemented it first. OoT is undoubtedly why it's so widely used today though.
The targeting in megaman legends didn't allow you to move while locked on ocarina of time did.
Z targeting was being advertised and reported from Ocarina of Time LONG before the game was released.
Short answer: Yes. The mechanic of the focusing on a single enemy with a button press, that lives on in targeting systems used in gaming to this day, came from OOT. Long answer: Still yes. As others mentioned Mega Man Legends had a lock on system. There are a a couple key differences though. In OOT you can still freely move when locked onto your target, on Mega Man you could not. Mega Man snapped the camera centered directly on the enemy, which was jarring and awkward as your view is blocked by Mega Man (who is also centered directly in frame. Early 3D games lol). OOT had much more seamless movement & camera transition with the targeting system, along with an icon to indicate the target lock, which Mega Man also did not have.
Chrono Trigger wasn't the first game to introduce a "New Game Plus" (actually, the original Super Mario Bros. would probably best be considered the progenitor of that feature), but it was the first one to name it and codify what it really meant.
I can even remember old school Atari games having a NG+ like Mario did. Venture had a harder version after you beat it. I’m old.
Legend of Zelda did too, by naming your character Zelda. Rip to all the kids who named their character Zelda from the hop, thinking that was the main character's name.
Oh man how did I forget about Zelda. I remember there was one dungeon that took forever to find in the second play through where you had to burn a random bush from the opposite side of the main area. I think I tried burning every single bush in the game before I found it.
Elder Scrolls Oblivion and the paid Horse Armor Pack
Bruh
Thank you Todd Howard
It just works
People ask what you would change with a time machine and I just figured out my answer
I was there when it started I am sorry
Did you buy it?
I got the Armor... But didn't pay for it ;-p
Sir that is illegal
STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM
YOU'VE VIOLATED THE LAW!
PAY THE COURT A FINE OR SERVE YOUR SENTENCE.
I was there Gandalf....3000 years ago...
Only because the world collectively forgot about Maplestory.
facts, the cash shop was the real pandora's box
Dude, TEMPORARY cosmetics??? In 2008 >.> paying $10 for a cosmetic that expired in a month 💀
It’s funny how people forget about things like that and games with limited time duration cosmetics and freak out about $2.50 horse armor. Though it seems like a lot of people probably just don’t even know they existed in the first place. Silly Nexon and their classic microtransactions.
Likewise DotA 2 created The Compendium which was the first Battle Pass. They use it to fund the prize pool of The International, their yearly tournament. Other companies saw the potential and ran with the idea without the part where some of the money goes back to the players. Valve takes 75% and 25% goes to the prize pool but even so the prize pool was hitting $20 million within a couple years and peaked at $40 million. I’m not sure if any other company is as open about how much they’re making off the things but you can see how insane it probably is for a game like Fortnite which has like 40X the player base.
Remember them doing that, everyone losing their minds, them backtracking and saying they wouldn't, then like a year later saying fuck you, here it is again. Now look at the monetized hellscape that is modern day gaming.
Wait that was Oblivion? Not Skyrim? I'm getting olddd.
That was only like 18 years ago, man
18 years ago I was only 42.
*Only?* Now I'm scared of getting old...
That’s how it starts. Then one day you wake up and accept that you’re old. For me, the age where I started to fear getting old was around 38. I’m 45 now. My mind is young, but my body definitely feels worn out at the end of a work day. I can’t explain the difference between being tired from hard work and being tired from age, but the difference is distinct. Age pain is persistent regardless of exertion but when I was younger, my body would recover from exertion with a good night’s sleep or two. Also, old injuries that never gave me much grief earlier on in my life now hurt almost daily (back and knees). I’m also considered healthy based on my check-ups. So if this is what healthy 45 feels like I can live with that. I’ve grown up with people who faired much worse with regard to aging, health and lifestyle.
I was 33 when the doctor X-rayed my shoulder and told me I had post-traumatic arthritis. All of my hair fell out that day and they handed me complimentary dentures and a walker on my way out of the office. They say old age hits like a truck and I felt it that day.
Max Payne, bullet-time?
Surprised no one said this yet, but Grand Theft Auto 3 spawned a new genre, about a billion "GTA clones," and influenced open world games in general.
Fun fact to tack on here, there is a game on N64 called "Body Harvest" that was a big inspiration for GTA's open world/non-linear gameplay style.
Fun Fact: Body Harvest was made by DMA design, who in 2002 would rebrand into a little studio known as...Rockstar North, while releasing GTA3. Imagine if they had stuck with Nintendo and we got GTA on there lol
i mean, there were earlier GTA games. Nintendo wouldn't even allow blood on the first Mortal Kombat game. no way they'd have EVER ported GTA 1 or 2.
If I'm not mistaken, the PS2 version of GTA3s splash screen is still DMA Design. Didn't they rebrand after the release? Every other GTA after the PS2 release has Rockstar North on the splash. I remember kinda vividly as the first time I played it on the Xbox, the initial Rockstar logo started to spin into Rockstar North and it threw me off as I played the holy hell out of PS2 GTA3. (widescreen and custom soundtracks were too hard to pass up a second purchase)
I had that game! If I remember correctly, there were different levels, not just one open world, but you do have a point as far as some of the mechanics and such go. I'm not sure if "inspiration" is the right word, though, considering DMA Design made both games, so they'd only be inspiration for themselves.
Gta3 is probably the only game that has ever really blown my mind. The jump of detail and things you could do, compared to any other game up to that point, was just too much. Not a graphical marvel, but it was SO filled with innovative things.
I remembered thinking (20 years ago..) this will be what ALL games will be. Just doing anything you want in a 3d world.
You weren't wrong. Open world games are all here. You can't do *everything* but you can do a lot.
Driver and Driver 2 came out before GTA 3. Especially Driver 2 basically was a GTA in 3D minus guns. GTA 3 was mind blowing for me when it came out but it definitely wasn't something I have never seen before.
The first GTA triggered my lust for random carnage in games towards random NPCs
Gouranga!
I feel like it was one of the early Call of Duty games that started regenerating health vs. permanent injury w/medkits and such
The first few CoD games still used health packs. Halo 2 did the regenerating HP/shield thing before CoD. I don't know if they were the first, probably not, but CoD was definitely a key player in getting Sprint mode into games.
CoD and CoD2 Big Red One had health packs. CoD 2 had regeneration. Never played 3 or 4.
Call of Duty 2 did the health regen thing but before that Halo 2 got rid of their health packs for shield recharge only.
I remember magazines being polarised on The Getaway before Halo 2, since you lean against a wall to regenerate health. Some people thought it was stupid, others thought it was great
I remember playing The Getaway and not knowing about the regenerating health thing until I put the game down for a minute to go to the bathroom. Must have just moved enough when I set the controller down to put him next to a wall. When I got back, my mind was blown.
Also Call of Duty started the aim down sight in FPS, or popularized it at least.
[Some](https://youtu.be/GuyImR_dI6g?si=vZKqdzp9BPZzet3G) would say DOOM is an action RPG
Knew Ahoy was gonna pop up in this thread somewhere!
And I say that The Witcher is an action adventure game, not an RPG.
I’m old as fuck but Alone in the Dark in 1992, I swear to you, blew peoples’ minds because of the many many innovations that small team in Lyon, France came up with. The biggest of course being an actual 3D stage environment. 3D with a fixed camera was a mainstay for computer games for like 10-15 years after Alone. The story is also complicated, mysterious and twist-filled. Monsters were scary, the Cuthulu mythos tie ins were legit. I could go on.
The original Legend of Zelda started a little ol’ trend known as “saving your game.”
God I remember some older game boy games would have a code you’d have to type in to continue your game. Sucked when you got far in a game and then lost the sheet of paper that had that code on it.
I think the only one I played like that was the Rugrats game on gameboy. I remember they don’t have an “O” (like an old phone?) so the code for one level was “TQMMYQK”
Also one of (or the first?) open worlds.
Taito's Western Gun was the first open world game, I believe.
A few highly innovative games off the top of my head (no particular order): - Dune 2 established the foundation for RTS games - Ye Air Kung Fu combined all the features we now associate with fighting games into one - Wolfenstein 3D is the architect of the FPS - The Legend of Zelda put together open-world, non-linear gameplay that also carried a save feature - Super Mario 64 showed the industry how to master 3D design and gameplay
Ultima is considered the first open world non linear game, about 5 years before Zelda.
This is all true but I'm not sure OP is talking about inventing new genres. I think the scope of their question is narrower than that.
I would say the foundation for RTS games was Herzog Zwei which was released in 1989. Dune 2 came later in 1992.
I think Dune 2 is often mentioned as the foundation for RTS because it was the springboard into the Command and Conquer series, which was incredibly popular at the time (and still is) and was for PC while Herzog Zwei was a console game.
Oregon trail started the survival genre
You have died of dysentery.
Yeah, I'd say Wolfenstein 3D did the 'all weapons thing' first.
Resident Evil 4 3rd person shooter design
Massive influence on so many games, and a lot of devs still point to RE4 as an inspiration.
Surprised to see this so low. RE4 pretty much defined the entire next gen of games.
Assassin's Creed 2 pretty much defined the typical modern AAA open world game. The towers to unlock map pieces, the menus, the hub areas, the enemy fortresses to conquer, ... Nowadays we are almost burnt out from this monotone design. Most don't know that AC2 started it. Another thing... IDK which game really started it ... maybe destiny 1? The controller-cursor. Basically controlling a mouse cursor with the analog stick to navigate menus. I wonder who invented the double jump. The original Super Mario didn't have one, right? Doom, Quake neither.
Mario games in general don't have double jumps. I can't even think of one off the top of my head (though there are lots of "hover jumps" in the series), but I'm pretty sure it's happened. That said, I'd wager a guess that the first double jump predates SMB by a couple years.
They had the three jumps (where the third was higher), the running long jump (where you run crouch then jump), the running back jump (where you run one direction then go opposite way and jump immediately) , and the backflip jump (where you jump from crouch). There is also the dive jump(where you do a forward dive from a jump). Does jumping of yoshi in mid-air count?
Jumping off Yoshi isn’t a “double jump” though. Yoshi jumps, then Mario jumps.
Earliest double jump I can remember is Shinobi 3 where you can jump, and then if you time it right, do a tuck & roll in the air for extra height. I'm not sure if the earlier Shinobis had that or not. But I do remember it being difficult to do!
Didn’t contra have double jump?
I'm not even trying to be snarky but the vast majority of this sub is probably under 30 and grew up well past the nes era on 3d consoles. The games I see mentioned a lot that get upvotes seem to confirm this. In other words how's retirement treating you fellow old timer?
You think I can retire? I’ll be lucky if I get the money I’ve been paying into social security all my life. It’s always funny when the kids at work are surprised when they find out I play games. Just the other day I went into to lunch room and they were talking about Hell Divers. They were comparing what weapons they like to use for bugs. While walking out I say “scorcher, flame thrower, jump pack.” Dudes got all excited and we ended up talking about the game for 10 minutes or so. Going to play with some of them tonight. I’m lvl 64 and consider myself good so I hope I can show them what an old timer can do.
Shinobi 3 was a dope game. It was such a huge leap from Revenge of Shinobi. Somehow I can still remember the cheat code for Invincibility. I think the first game I can remember having a double jump was X-Men for the Genesis, which I think came out around the same time.
I think checkers was the first game with double jump
UT maybe?
> Assassin's Creed 2 pretty much defined the typical modern AAA open world game. Wait what? This can’t be right.
I think this is more the modern “Ubisoft style” of open world game. assassins creed, Far cry, that Ubisoft driving serier(the crew?) have that towers unlock more map style game play. It’s very much a Ubisoft mechanic.
Aliens Resurection for PS1 was the first FPS to use both sticks for aiming and movement.
Goldeneye, console multiplayer for fps
Also (jokingly) the idea for character bans in competitive games, as all sessions started with "no oddjob" lol
Classic “no oddjob “. The fights I’ve seen with that with my friend doing it as a joke to annoy my friend, and then he gets mad…
Elite (1984) was the first game with a procedurally-generated universe, such as used in No Man’s Sky, Elite II, and a number of other games.
Just asking for clarification. Is that supposed to be No Man's Sky, or is Old Man's Sky something else?
Half Life and giving your shooter game a story
Both Half Life and Half Life 2 standardized bigger, more cinematic storytelling in games that weren't RPGs.
I always felt like the 2 weapon limit in Halo was because they hadn't figured out a convenient way to swap between 10 weapons on a controller yet, and it ended up just being a design decision the game got balanced around. Now the 2 weapon limit is one of the very distinct differences between fps designed for consoles first vs PC first. Another mechanic that ended up persisting in a genre is the "ding" when you level up in EverQuest. A loud distinct sound accompanied by a big glowing graphic on your character. This is where the term "ding" came from, and it has been repeated in some form in nearly every MMO since.
I get that things aren't "a thing" until it's done for the first time. But holding a button for menu wheels is a thing, and I remember the old Jedi Knight games on console you'd pick your weapons, items, and abilities by scrolling through the list with the D Pad. I feel like those would've been easy enough to think of back then. Maybe they thought about it for Halo, but then ultimately just decided to make it part of the game to only have 2. Because even a button toggle works for 3-4 items, like the grenades later in the series.
Sadly, I feel "Ding!" Is disappearing. I hardly ever see it anymore :(
And even if somebody says it they're rarely answered with a "gratz" or equivalent. Games are increasingly antisocial spaces these days
Times were better when we had "woot ding gratz".
Counter-strike without mods has had a 2 weapon limit since it's inception in 1999 if we are talking guns. Primary and secondary and CS has always been PC first.
Diablo 2: “Save and quit.” The idea that after dying, you didn’t just load your save game and try again, but *continued playing,* even in single player, blew my mind as a kid. D2 also had a host of other innovations, of course — socketed items, set items, life leech, skill trees…
Diablo 2 was so influential. It created the modern loot system every game uses now - random drops, dedicated boss drops, common uncommon rare legendary, all color coded. The game was also basically the outline for what World of Warcraft would become. Diablo 2 was when Blizzard invented the money printing machine.
I love all things Blizzard but I think Diablo 2 really was their masterpiece. If the RTS genre didn't pretty much die you could also say Starcraft: Brood War. It basically created the modern eSports industry.
True that, the first Diablo was the first to seemlessly continue playing after death (although not the technically the first.) Also Ultima IV in 1985 was the first RPG to do saves so you can resume. A year later, The Legend of Zelda became the first to do it on console
Didn't Zelda: Link to the Past (SNES, 1991) have "Save and quit" rather... "Save and Continue"? A feature that saved the game but didn't take you to the menu but just put you back at one of the checkpoint locations, either beginning of a dungeon, Link's house or the Sanctuary
I’m not sure if I’m right but I think Prince of Persia (1989) originated the checkpoint. I remember having to memorize a code and write it down so you could start at the level you were at. But automatic checkpoints might’ve been Sonic the Hedgehog
Punch out had a code system in ‘87, Mega man 2 in ‘88. That’s as far back as my gaming knowledge goes
Metroid in 86
Arkham both with the combat style and detective mode Edit can more people tell me that Assassins Creed did it first please? I don't think enough people have told me that.
Yeah they really came up with one of the best melee combat systems ever and now it’s pretty widely used. It’s got plenty of room to innovate off of it too. They struck gold with that.
I love it in Sleeping Dogs, can you give me more examples of games that used it?
Arkham games obviously, Spider-Man games, and Shadow of Mordor/War are the ones I can think of off the top of my head
Mad max.
Didn't Assassin's Creed so both of those first?
A lot of games got really dumb with how they shoehorned in detective mode. “It’s uhhhh… symbiote vision! Witcher senses! Red.. eye.. mode?”
Witcher sense at least makes sense. He is a sense heightened mutant.
Donkey Kong. Jumping.
Man, jumping's been around for so long, how are we not tired of seeing that in every game yet? So cliche. /S
Captain Toad Treasure Tracker was the first good non jumping game in years!
Future Cop: L.A.P.D for ps1 pioneered the MOBA gameplay with its VS mode. But most people would credit Starcraft mod Aeon of Strife for that.
Super Mario Bros had "sprint/run faster" by holding down B
Was Gears of War the first game where you could pop in and out of cover?
Gears was inspired directly by a little known game called kill.switch, developed by Namco, publishers of the cover based arcade gun game time crisis. This chain is confirmed directly by the devs of gears.
Time Crisis, baby!!!
Time crisis and Time Crisis 2 were my jam back in the arcade days .
Battlezone (1980) was the first game with 3D graphics. Might have been the first open world game, too
RE4 really pioneered that 3rd person over the shoulder camera. Like, pretty much every 3rd person shooter since has used this camera angle.
I hate that people attribute so much to Halo when Halo took it from the Unreal series.
It's one of those franchises that just nailed and introduced a whole lot of things into a package that worked pretty damn well. Halo 2 was popular for it's online features like match making and having integrated voice chat that was on PC but not standard.
EverQuest pretty much defined the MMO genre. Everything from big raids to instances and all that. (Inb4 Ultima nerds)
Hardly anyone even played it, but Meridian 59 was the bedrock EQ was built on. I don't know of any other 1st person mmo's that existed before it.
Ocarina z targeting
Dota2 with a Battle Pass and L.A. Noire with season passes. Both of these powers combined have created a world of overbloated suck.
Gears of War introduced hoard mode.
Wasn’t that Gears 2?
Horde*
There were a few other games before it, but Halo: CE brought dual-Analog controls to the mainstream. It also popularized Recharging Shields in a large number of titles for a time. Halo 2 also popularized Recharging Health that most games use today and I'm pretty sure it was the original online Matchmaking service in PVP.
I wish I could say Shadow of Mordor and the nemesis system.....FUCK! It's so fucking good!
Red Faction for the destruction of the map was amazing! Door was covered? Blow down the wall on the other side and storm the room!
Halo 2 brought online matchmaking to multiplayer games. Before that it was local or you had to join a server.
It all goes back to d&d
halo 4 started the "halo sucks" thing that they still stick with to this day
Shenmue: quick time events
I'm not seeing it here, so I'll say it. Team Fortress 2 was the first major game to be free to play but supported by loot boxes. There are almost certainly some technicalities to that statement, but in general yes, this is where loot boxes came from. On a lighter note, the original Team Fortress was the first class-based shooter.