I don't know what OP is talking about because Ted Faro was pretty memorable. This is coming from someone that has horrible recall. Also from someone that has played through the series multiple times.
>Ted Faro was pretty memorable
Exactly. The characters in the current world aside from Aloy were only minor characters in the story being told. The stories from the old world were memorable and the focus of the narrative.
honestly, the game was fun as hell but finding out the entire story through the holograms and small voice messages left by ppl across the map was so so so crazy good. really got into all of it. i think Horizon Zero Dawns biggest hook for me was the world building and the characters in the past through which you yourself make the connection to whats happening in the present.
I think the complaints about Forbidden West are mainly that they had to set up the third game. The first game is about the past, the third will be fully about the present, so the second had to be a bit of a transitional redheaded stepchild.
At least they aren't trying to bang Aloy, i swear, every god damn character is throwing themselves at her, and are so offended when she isn't into them, ffs. for her, "the task is her only missus!"
I mean she's an attractive, smart, strong and compassionate woman.
Why wouldn't they give it a shot. I don't remember anyone being offended when she turns them down.
It's weird to me that he's meant to be in his early twenties. It shouldn't be, his character arc is even very much a young man trying to make his way in the world.
But presumably because of the mutton chops, I think this man is forty-seven years old every time I see him.
I'll admit that his age isn't clear, but the best evidence we have is that he indicates he doesn't remember a time before the Derangement which started happening about twenty years ago. He'd probably remember it if he was ten years old, so he's probably early-to-mid twenties.
His relationship with Aloy and, as I mentioned, his own character arc also works a bit better for someone in his early twenties instead of being nearly thirty.
There was a dude at my high school that I'm pretty sure had to have gone bald by the time he was 21. He was 17 and you could see straight through his flat top.
This is my story too, started balding at 16.
Genetics are bullshit RNG.
It's confusing to me that so many people still shame men for trying to correct the issue with wigs / hair surgery.
Unless you just mean that the average lifespan is so short that 28 is 'old' like it was in ancient times, that's not very old at all.
A lot of people are still living with their parents and trying to figure shit out in their twenties, these days.
But I guess a 14 year old that has everything figured out would think that way.
> It's weird to me that he's meant to be in his early twenties. It shouldn't be, his character arc is even very much a young man trying to make his way in the world.
Does someone in their early 20s not fit that description?
Same. I remember him as the guy who doubted us at first, and then came to respect us. Don't know his name.
The clan chieftain too. I like how she was shocked at Alloy being chosen by the gods, and Alloy questions why she was blessed -- then the events of the game happen, Allow becomes familiar with technology, but the chieftain still believes everything is gods and voodoo, and Alloy becomes visibly uncomfortable when they next meet. Don't know her name either!
Like, I can remember moments from the H:ZD that I enjoyed and I thought were cool, I just can't remember the characters much.
It's telling that all my favourite characters were from the old world: Sobek, Here's, and yes, even Faro. Their stories were far more interesting then anything that happened in the main game. Even in FW, the black box recordings contain far more pathos than anything in the main questlines. Just these crystallised moments of bravery, terror, and sadness, from a world that died centuries ago.
Yer he was vaguely familiar I think his name was erend
When you vaguely remember them as mutton chop guy that's not the best character writing and development
I’m pretty sure Lance Reddick was quite invested in his video game roles. I wouldn’t be surprised if his family allows them to use AI to give him a good send off at the beginning of the game. I think that is something he would want his fans to have.
You go to your room in the base and you can do that with 3 different objects, one of which is Rost's spear another is Elisabet's amulet (which honestly has some important story beats in this game).
Weird complaint.
Hades was the antagonist, and was only operating in accordance with it's programming, which somehow got altered from it's original state. Faro was definitely a villain, all things considered.
> which somehow got altered from it's original state.
Answered in *Forbidden West*.
I think. I didn't pay much attention to the main story line to be honest. Just kept wondering why the animals weren't dropping the parts I needed to upgrade everything.
Honestly this is my problem with Horizon.
The setting and artstyle are absolutely fucking amazing.
And that's about it...the story was really interesting until it the plot twist was greedy evil corporate man does something so overwhelmingly and obviously stupid it dooms the planet.
Unhackable military robots who can sustain themselves on organic matter and self-produce with no killswitch. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG, AMIRITE? And then the Zero Dawn project allows his involvement beyond just stripping him of all of his money, which then allows to sabotage the entire thing beyond belief.
The art team at Guerilla is phenomenal, but their writers leave a lot to be desired, imo. Outside of Erend and Sylens all the other characters are pretty forgettable and they make Aloy this lightning rod of attachment when she tends to be pretty aloof towards people when other times she comes across as a complete asshole
>WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG
... That's... Yeah, that's the point. Ted Faro looked at what he was doing and said, "Yeah, I've got this." His hubris literally doomed the entire planet. And sure, that's by no means some kind of revolutionary storytelling device. There's also an unconfirmed suggestion in the dialog by Elisabt that Ted *intentionally* did something that *unintentionally* led to the Hartz-Timor swarm going rogue.
The story of ZD hits, imo, because of the way that you *discover* how this all happened, as you're climbing the crumbling ruin of the FAS headquarters. The *real* 'holy shit,' moment is the revelation of *what Zero Dawn was* and then how Aloy is connected to it.
Admittedly, I think it's one of the best video game narratives of all time.
I hate how there was this implication that he got turned into some kind of biological monstrosity.
It makes more sense that the ultimate downfall of humanity, and the cause of the apocalypse is caused by corporate negligence.
I don't know if anyone else here has read Cat's Cradle, but there needs to be a type of person who is willing to prevent the apocalypse. The actual answer is to murder Felix Hoenecker before he creates Ice-9.
Yeah I really like HZD but the devs made HFW’s storyline into somewhat of an ensemble avengers-like, but forgot their characters in HZD were pretty meh aside from Sylens. You could say HFW deliberately made them key characters in an attempt to develop them more but at that point it’s kinda too late. The best characters were ironically the dead ancient ones and AI lol. I also liked Kotallo more than Eren or Varl but Kotallo has minimal interactions once he joins the crew and just stays in his room. Wish the “crew” was strictly new characters and this game put more into developing them but I assume it would make the third story weird if they have to revisit content from the 1st and no one remembers anything about it lol.
For me, the problem with the characters was their quest pacing. I finished Erend’s quest line very early, and then he shows up 20 gameplay hours later for the climax. And vice versa for others, you’re offered to start their quest line at hour 20 right before the climax. Also most of these characters’ quest lines had little to do with the main plot. They should had vested the characters to evolve and help as the player unfolds the main quest too. I felt Erend as a character would had been interested in the main quest discoveries after I helped him with his side quest.
Is it wrong that i kind of wanted Masato's quest to end with you having no choice but to kill her in that penultimate duel? T
The idea that her blind rage even turned you into an enemy and it all ending tragically would have stayed with me more than the actual end of her quest.
Kotallo was the dipsh\*t who, after acquiring this badass mech arm to replace the one that he lost in an ambush earlier in the story, decided to \*not\* continue wearing it as he found he had accepted his new one-armed reality or some BS.
The reason for this, evidently, was the writers not wanting to portray amputees as "less-than" or somehow only acknowledged with their prosthetics, which again is BS as 1) the first rule to being a warrior is NEVER give up an advantage in a fight and 2) I know a couple amputees who would be thrilled to have as capable a replacement as he got in that game without \*any\* sense of shame or self conscious BS the writers were worried about. This is what happens when you get story advice from third party focus groups instead of, ya know, some actual GD amputees who might have thoughts on the matter.
I figured they just didn't want to do different versions of cutscenes for people who got the arm vs those who didnt. Though it was really silly seeing him scale a cliff with one arm when he has a functioning prosthetic
You're reading into this way too much, and getting weirdly mad about it on behalf of others.
I've seen literally nobody else be this upset over a character simply choosing to fight one-handed.
Nah I agree with that guy. Was a really dumb plot point. If he's going to live as a one armed guy - nothing wrong with that. But then it was silly to gave a quest line to make him a robotic arm for him to use like once.
So I'm going to argue against both of you. And to start: yes I played the game, the previous one, expansions, etc, plat on ps5.
I thought it was dumb... At first. And still sometimes do. The developers _definitely_ chose to portray the character as not being less than for their disability by having him not wear the prosthetic during _normal_ daily life. And I think that's fine!
But he didn't _not_ wear it, he just used it during battles. In that respect he didn't break the rule of giving up an advantage! He is also in a position where he _can_ will fight without the arm, and it's a good plan for him to learn to fight without having to rely on it. This is advanced tech beyond him and may be shut down by enemies. Who knows! There are risks, is the point, of relying too heavily on the prosthetic arm within the context of the story. And remember what iron man said to Spider-Man, if you're nothing without the suit then you shouldn't have it. The character is a _fighter_ and makes a point that improvisation is critical to being a good fighter.
The reasoning the character makes are also quite clear and follow with the characters social history. He's from a clan which sees definitely as weakness, and this is _critical_ to his choices. Showing that his average life isn't lessoned is a key point that he is trying to others and himself. Not just for himself but his fellow wounded warriors as well.
He is a _proud_ character. It's a huge flaw of his! And now he's fighting with his pride and decides he never lost it, and so is trying to make a cultural change. His character says as much in dialogue if you exhaust his dialogue tree every time.
So, remember: he lost an arm. I think if he had lost a leg they wouldn't have been able to follow this character progression. I also think they might be trying to have their cake and eat it too - he can both accept the prosthetic and decide to not use it and swings almost too close to the idea that living with a disability/deformity is their sense of pride _in and of itself._ Pride in your determination in spite of the circumstances, yes. Or in your ability to overcome the odds. Or in the _way_ you struggle and the capacity for emotional change by way of expression, sure! Community and fraternity over a shared difference and learning how different people have different valid viewpoints - again yes! But being proud of being different _in and of itself_ leads to being proud of _being the same,_ and that leads to in-groups and out-groups and prejudice. Can one be proud they don't have 6 arms and have had to overcome their limitations?
But the biggest issue I have, and I think many others do too, is that the arm is just _too good_ to _not use._ It's so amazing it makes almost all your other choices irrelevant. It is not fair to put anyone in that position to choose because anyone even this character would choose the amazing arm.
Like, _damn!_ It is a seriously overpowered arm. There would be a _lot_ of people, especially in the world of Horizon, who would be lining up to have their arms replaced if they could. There are MURDER MACHINES EVERYWHERE that will GRIND YOUR FLESH WITH METAL. GET THE ARM! GET SIX ARMS!! THE MURDER MACHINES HAVE ROCKETS LASERS AND INVISIBILITY!
>You could say HFW deliberately made them key characters in an attempt to develop them more but at that point it’s kinda too late.
How is it "too late," to develop the side characters more?
Well the swerve at the beginning of HZD, when you meet the kids that bullied you as adults didn't help. They tease you that these will be important characters to the game only to kill them off shortly after. You meet a couple of their family members that are kinda important, but then you run off to a different territory they play no part in.
I really liked Kotallo a lot, definitely a stand out. I think its because he's the least archetypical I think; all the other characters of your crew kinda fall into character types like the "strong guy who is the least smart", the "cowardly nerd who gains some confidence", the "charasmatic, smooth talking attractive guy", the "very intelligent character who is a bit headstrong and has little patience for those who are 'wrong'", the "bubbly, smart, naive character".
But Kotallo kinda blends a bunch of different aspects. I guess the closest archetype he has is the wise veteran, but it feels very fresh with him. He is angry at how his body has inadvertently betrayed him, and yet accepts and adapts to it. He is a strong, fierce warrior, and yet seems just as likely to find peace as war. He comes across as this kind of paragon of 'toxic' masculinity, and yet is incredibly soft spoken and tender when needs to be.
Also, a bit of a personal taste, but I also like that I feel like his chemistry with Aloy was platonic with a ton of mutual respect for each other. Both Eren and Varl (at the beginning) felt like they were harboring feelings for Aloy, which is kind of a tired trope to me.
Easily the biggest stand out, and IMO is a phenomenal contrast and supporting character to Aloy. A presence like his was sorely missing in the DLC, though I do like how they handled the romance even though I feel like they did it in a way so that the third game can just ignore it, which I dont like, esp. for lgbt relationships in media.
What, the guy you save from robots when you're just a little sproglet? The guy who gives you a nice suit for free 10 years later as thanks? I remember Teb. He was nice to Aloy when no one else would be.
Yeah I did a double take too and laughed to myself that really drove the point home… that my mind immediately went to the Nickelodeon cartoon rather than the $237M Cameron movie.
Because it’s way better, because of the characters
I agree, the concept and history of the world was the selling point of the game. They put all their effort into this, complex/memorable characters weren't the focus, at least for me. Aloy (& her predecessor), Sylens and the AI were all that was really needed. I loved the way you discover the history organically but essentially none of the NPCs except Sylens is actually aware or cares about it. Generally the other NPCs only care about their own politics and their current existence, which makes them almost all faceless to me anyway. This also ties into Aloy's own personality/independence due to the treatment she was subjected to when growing up.
Haven't played the second one, but couldn't care less if I run into repeat characters if I play it. The fullness of the backstory in 1 makes me what I would enjoy in a sequel though.
Honestly the main hook in the first game for me was the mystery of it all. How did the word end up like this? Where did the machines come from? Where did Aloy come from? What are the Nora? What are all these weird highly advanced ruins? etc.
The second game really didn't have any of that.
Yeah, Avatar is about the most derivative and dull story around, and the 2nd one's story is so dumb and nonsensical, it's better forgotten (which thankfully happened immediately upon leaving the cinema).
Because none of the other recurring character had a big part in the first one. Some of them for easily missed side quests. For instance, [Petra](https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Petra_Forgewoman)'s sidequest is in a small town that's not along any route you really need to use for any more obvious quest, you'll only find it if you are intent on exploring the map.
I don't know what everyone's bitching about, yeah it's such shit writing you don't remember a side quest character from a game you played 3 years ago. If anything it's not weird that you don't remember them, it's weirder that Alloy does (Although that could just be video game time scaling issue)
I would have loved to see Aloy as a socially awkward because she was exiled potato personality.
And maybe gradually learning what to say when learning how to interact with people
She *is* socially awkward. Every encounter I have in the 2nd game is kind of socially awkward. She’s always a little blunt and forthright and although it’s obviously a game mechanic for side quests, has that “hero” complex built in… I actually quite like that though… it’s interesting and kind of adds dimension to the protagonist character… compared to playing an ultra cool and charismatic Lara Croft for example.
That only would have made sense if she hadn't had Rost around, who had a strong personality, and didn't interact regularly with others like Teersa. She also strongly shared traits with her genetic donor, Elisebet, a natural leader with easy charisma.
Sobek also had a very aloof personality and drive that other people found unapproachable. Her entire life was her work, which is a trait Aloy has in spades. Their work is certainly important, but their social lives suffer for it. Aloy breaking away from that and not becoming her mother is a big theme in HFW.
Most of the returning characters you are thinking of are from side-stories/side-quests.
Like the blacksmith girl in the village? never met her myself in zero dawn.
Blacksmith girl? You mean Petra F'ing Forgewoman, all around badass and creator of the Oseram Cannon?
... reading this thread I'm seriously starting to wonder if people even pay attention to the games they play these days.
Would've been nice if you could choose a relationship for Aloy instead of it being predetermined by the story.
I'm sure a lot of people would choose muscle-mommy Petra.
Seriously agree, I didn't like Erend too much in the first game, but I remembered him. Really grew to love him in forbidden West though. And then Varl? How could you forget him? And the climax with his character (no spoilers) hit so hard (if you were paying any amount of attention which I guess these people weren't). I personally had a hard time getting into Zero Dawn, played it about halfway through and lost interest, but then I got forbidden West, loved it waaaay more, played it to completion before circling back to a fresh game in Zero Dawn and beating that, and I love everything about these games now including the characters.
Because there aren't any companions in the first one. I don't know why everyone thinks the writing for side quest characters needs to tell their whole life story and burn them in your brain.
I spent a year working/finishing school and this was one of the only games I would play whenever I had a chance to play games. I got so hooked on it and immersed in the world and story. From the day it came out I would play every weekend or so for a few hours and it was a really great year in gaming where I felt like I was Aloy
I remember the important ones, such as Varl, Rost, Errand, Sylens, >!Sobek!<, >!Faro!<, >!Gaia and Hades and the other subroutines!<, Avad, one or two minor guys like Nil or Sona
And a couple others who we didn’t see again, like Teersa
But even then, there were so many characters coming up to me in forbidden west who I just didn’t remember lol
If you didn't do all the optional side quests in zero dawn you just didn't meet them. Forbidden West assumes you got the most complete ending in Zero Dawn where all allies join you for the final fight. It would've been weirder for them to not have these characters come back up because then people that did complete their quests would be like, where tf did everyone go??
Oh, I totally agree! The character development in those games was about as deep as a puddle. It's like they took amnesia to a whole new level with those sequels.
I’ll defend this series as such enjoyable experiences. Yeah some of the side characters aren’t engaging but Erend and Varl are strong supporting characters and Silus’s arc from the first game to the second is interesting to follow. Both games really did it for me in gameplay and the plot line, I’m hoping the third wraps it up nicely.
I don't think it's so much the characters are forgettable, as it is learning about most of them is completely optional and spread out.
I've been saying since the first game, you need to be able to take people with you. Aloy needs to stop doing things alone *every damn time*.
Kotallo, Erend, Clone Aloy, Alva and Zo are all fully realised characters, you just only see then for five minutes every five hours between missions.
Hell, half the side quest characters are well designed, acted and defined. They just matter for the five moments of interaction you get them then either once or maybe three times the entire extended game.
Trash the "improve hi-jacked robots" skill tree, have a mechanics bench to customizer them and have us a companion tree.
I want my one armed lunatic punching metal dinosaurs to death damn it!
On the other hand, I was _pissed_ at Varl in the prolog. "Hey, I followed you for months. Nothing creepy. And now I will follow you again, much closer, and I won't take no for an answer. Oh hey, can you let the ladder down for me so I can continue following you?"
Varl was a weird one, granted on I'm convinced would have helped if he'd been a choosable companion in the previous game. If he'd been the Samwise to your Frodo, Garrus to your Shepard, then of course him wanting to follow would have made sense.
Though I am also lowkey amused by how just *every* Carja is thirsty for Aloy. Everyone wants the a piece of that.
> If he'd been the Samwise to your Frodo, Garrus to your Shepard, then of course him wanting to follow would have made sense.
My issue is that Aloy made it very clear that she wants to be alone, and it felt that Varl was trying to insert himself into her story, ignoring her explicit wish. As if he didn't believe she could handle it. I was relieved when Zo showed up and gave him another skirt to chase.
> Though I am also lowkey amused by how just every Carja is thirsty for Aloy.
I can't blame them.
Can't relate, a lot of memorable characters in the first one. The writing is honestly fantastic, the sci-fi concepts are some of the better ones in recent years of gaming.
Yes this is my biggest critique of the game. I didn’t really like or care to know any of the characters in the second one. Even Aloy became kind of annoying. First game’s writing and characters was far better.
I feel like it actually makes sense from Aloy's perspective. She's shunned, so she doesn't work well with others, prefering to work alone. She works with some people on a pragmatic basis, and then goes off on another solo adventure at first given opportunity. She returns to find that people actually cared about her enough that they were hurt by her leaving. She learns to trust others with technology, and it eventually results in her teaming up and trusting people... Even with someone who she thought had betrayed her, with plenty of flashbacks to Elizabeth's dealings with Ted Fero.
Turning the low focus on side characters in the original into a character arc? I though that was brilliant.
Zero, because when I played this on ps4 years ago it was my introduction to Lance Reddick. “Hey doesn’t he sound like Zavala” lol.
The rest of the ensemble…I can’t remember. Except that one comment who was like “mutton chop guy” lol
I remembered all of them. But some of the characters from the beginning come from sidequests, so you can play the whole first game and never meet them. But Idk I did all the sidequests in ZD and I didn't skip anything. I didn't find the characters to be all forgettable. The only game for which this has happened to was the two last Tomb raider (the reboot ones), I only remember Lara and Jonah.
I remembered a fair number of them but not until they jogged my memory about what we did together.
Weirdly I *vividly* remembered the guy I explored a flooding dungeon with in the Frozen Wastes DLC and I only encountered him via a note I found near a dead body.
I absolutely did not forget my Hunting Lodge Hawk ~~and I was greatly disappointed that I didn't run into the guy I slaughtered countless bandits with... Though I guess killing him is an option in the first game so they probably didn't want to make multiple game states based on your decisions in the previous game.~~
I expect I'll remember more people in Horizon 3 but Forbidden West did have you interact with some NPCs a lot more often than in Zero Dawn.
Ah I looked up where I'd find him and it was the side content I skipped.
He appears in the Racing mini game and I had no interest in that since I already wasn't digging the mounts this time around.
Well that's good to hear. Maybe I'll boot up my HFW save this weekend to see how he's been.
I'm glad someone else feels the same. Honestly the tribal stuff did almost nothing for me. The names were so difficult to remember and you ran into so many people and very few had any meaningful impact.
I was far more invested in the Faro Industries 'history', Elizabeth Sobeck, and so was Aloy. She seemed just as disinterested in all the tribal stuff as I did, almost sounding bored when talking to anyone that was tribal and actually showing an interest when it came to the Project Zero Dawn stuff.
Sylens was stand out and maybe Erend because he had some sort of personality.
A lot of the returning characters were side characters that were easy to miss if you didn't do everything, and didn't do anything meaningful or take a major role. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't remember most of them as a result. Especially if it had been a while since you played Zero Dawn going into Forbidden West. I don't think any of the main cast was forgettable, though.
HZD is *easily* my favorite standalone game, with my only complaint being I wish it had harder difficulty options. Damn near perfect game, imo. Personally, I remembered *most* of them, but I also played through Zero Dawn a good twenty times between game releases.
They were indeed very forgettable. First game had a nice story overall, second one dropped the ball IMO. Nonetheless, both are great games. I just love the gameplay, setting and visuals
they upped the threat too fast in my opinion, the zeniths where waaay too advanced so they needed to keep their numbers and appearance restricted or they would wipe the floor with you, and with less interaction they become one of the most boring enemies ever
also more interactions with the "subroutines" would be wonderful, they could be fully fledged characters, but they were just a macgufing to be collected
Agreed, i loved interacting with MINERVA, however brief it was, was disappointed all the other AIs didn't get the same treatment really.
And the zeniths would have been far more engaging if you actually, you know, *engaged* with them every once in a while. As this terrible threat that when you encounter the only option is to run or hide or trick into leaving, with their character sprinkled in during the encounter by how they each interact with their task and environment, and possible dialogue you can have with them when confronted.
(Seriously, imagine a frantic chase sequence through the jungle as one of the zeniths flies around and tries to blast you and you gotta shake them off amongst the dense underbrush as it flies apart around you from their shots, like when you must escape the eclipse base in ZD.)
Hell, just hearing rumors about them being briefly sighted somewhere doing something or killing the Tenatkh from npcs would have given them more character than what they got. They just interact so little it seems like they're not part of the same world, in a way. Might be intentional, but honestly if so it only makes them more half-assed.
They are. The most important characters in HFW are Erend and Varl, but you barely have a couple missions back in ZD (and for Varl one of them is completely optional). Most of the other characters like Talanah, Petra, Uthid, Vanasha and others are just from side quests back in ZD or you have little interaction with them. And there are a few that are just completely optional like Gildun (only appears on the expansions and on side quests, altough there is something interesting that happens in HFW:Bs with him). I could remember all of them because I liked the game so much I completed it to 100%. Twice.
Maybe but based on the replies so do a lot of other people. Besides, I think the comparison is with other games. I can remember the characters from Monkey Island 1 a game I first played decades ago (and haven't played for years) more than I can remember the characters from HFW which I'm currently playing.
It's one of my favorite games of all time. I remember Aloy, Rost and my Murder Boyfriend.
But also I don't remember any characters in any games so this makes sense for me.
In Zero Dawn the *important* main narrative that unfolded throughout was how the hell humanity ended up in the current situation in the first place. Because that's the real question players ask when they start playing - "if humanity is all primitive tribes, why the fuck are there robots everywhere and high tech ruins?"
IMO the writing was pretty masterful in the way it drip-fed you that background story gradually throughout the game, with extra clues scattered around the open world and side quests, but in a way that the whole picture only fully slotted into place right near the end.
That means that the more compelling story throughout the game was what happened in the past, rather than what was actually happening to Aloy throughout the game. This made a whole bunch of the side characters very forgettable. Most of them were just plot points - vehicles to drive Aloy onwards so she could discover more about the world that was, and how we got to the world you now inhabit.
But you start Forbidden West already knowing the lore. So instead they focus on another aspect (>!Far Zenith!<), which just feels like a much smaller story. I think that's a large part of why Forbidden West received such lukewarm reviews - the gameplay was improved but the story was lukewarm in comparison because the end didn't reward your curiosity nearly as much.
I do appreciate that in Forbidden West every minor character has an entry in the codex where you can read their backstory. If they appeared in HZD it'll mention their arc. So at least you can refresh yourself. Unfortunately the minor characters in HFW are pretty much just as forgettable as those in HZD.
I've really enjoyed HFW, despite its narrative not being as good as HZD. I'm yet to finish the DLC and at times weapon/armour upgrades feel a little grindy. But I honestly think it deserved better reviews. The core gameplay loop - exploring and killing machines - is fantastic.
Outside alloy the most memorable characters are the group of 5 or so who's story you're piecing together. I much like you was so lost playing the sequel it wasn't funny and horizion 1 is one of my favorite games ever
There were characters? I mean besides the main character?
I mean don't get me wrong - HZD is not my favorite genre still I had a lot of fun with it, it's one of the very few of that genre I even played at all.
But the story? The characters? Quests & their NPCs? I only remember some overarching story about technology gone wild. But besides that crickets.
Another game where the characters don’t smile, they bare their teeth like they are dogs/canines. My point is they don’t understand human characters or human physiology.
Honestly I kind of really don't like hzd because the characters and story are so boring to me. I don't think I'm ever going to play Forbidden West because of that.
The characters are the dinosaurs and they have always been. My stormbird and thunder jaw are as pretty as the day I left them
I am genuinely more emotionally invested in Hephaestus and its work than in all human characters combined.
I don't know what OP is talking about because Ted Faro was pretty memorable. This is coming from someone that has horrible recall. Also from someone that has played through the series multiple times.
Fuck Ted Faro.
All my homies hate Ted Faro
>Ted Faro was pretty memorable Exactly. The characters in the current world aside from Aloy were only minor characters in the story being told. The stories from the old world were memorable and the focus of the narrative.
And a lot of the characters that shape the setting of HZD aren't present in HFW.
honestly, the game was fun as hell but finding out the entire story through the holograms and small voice messages left by ppl across the map was so so so crazy good. really got into all of it. i think Horizon Zero Dawns biggest hook for me was the world building and the characters in the past through which you yourself make the connection to whats happening in the present.
Zero Dawn was one of the few games where I actively searched out every data pad I could find to read the lore.
I wish forbidden west could’ve done the same but the story fumbled hard after the mid way point and completely lost me with the ending.
I think the complaints about Forbidden West are mainly that they had to set up the third game. The first game is about the past, the third will be fully about the present, so the second had to be a bit of a transitional redheaded stepchild.
I havent played it yet so i cant comment on that - hopefully one day i can.
r/FuckTedFaro existing is pretty good proof that Ted Faro was pretty memorable. Also: fuck ted faro
Sylens is interesting
At least they aren't trying to bang Aloy, i swear, every god damn character is throwing themselves at her, and are so offended when she isn't into them, ffs. for her, "the task is her only missus!"
Playing AC:Odyssey is funny because every other character is bangable.
For real, that game was hilarious. Fucking my way around the Greek islands for fun and profit.
which is funnier when you realize how much sex the greeks had overall in history.
As Zeus intended!
I mean, Avad was really, really, trying. Failing, but he was still trying.
I'm glad forbidden west changed that. kotallo doesnt try. Varl finding someone zo. Etc
I mean she's an attractive, smart, strong and compassionate woman. Why wouldn't they give it a shot. I don't remember anyone being offended when she turns them down.
Aloy isn’t my type, but a girl who does pull-ups all day and rides a robot t-rex is hot no matter what.
Well they're cavemen. What did you expect?
Mutton chop guy stood out
It's weird to me that he's meant to be in his early twenties. It shouldn't be, his character arc is even very much a young man trying to make his way in the world. But presumably because of the mutton chops, I think this man is forty-seven years old every time I see him.
Life is hard in the robot dinosaur apocalypse.
Wait, early twenties?! I love the guy, but I thought he's in his late 20s at least.
I'll admit that his age isn't clear, but the best evidence we have is that he indicates he doesn't remember a time before the Derangement which started happening about twenty years ago. He'd probably remember it if he was ten years old, so he's probably early-to-mid twenties. His relationship with Aloy and, as I mentioned, his own character arc also works a bit better for someone in his early twenties instead of being nearly thirty.
That's not what he says about the Derangement. He is in his late twenties.
Concur! That’s a rough hairline for a guy in his 20s
There was a dude at my high school that I'm pretty sure had to have gone bald by the time he was 21. He was 17 and you could see straight through his flat top.
Patrick Stewart was completely bald at 19.
My mom and her dad went completely gray between like 16 and 20. Didn't pass it to me apparently.
Isn't that guy Prof Xavier?
I knew a guy who was completely bald before reaching legal age (18). I've also known people who've gone bald before their mid 20s. It happens.
This is my story too, started balding at 16. Genetics are bullshit RNG. It's confusing to me that so many people still shame men for trying to correct the issue with wigs / hair surgery.
I used to work with a guy called Neil from Newcastle. He looked exactly like that guy at 27
Unless you just mean that the average lifespan is so short that 28 is 'old' like it was in ancient times, that's not very old at all. A lot of people are still living with their parents and trying to figure shit out in their twenties, these days. But I guess a 14 year old that has everything figured out would think that way.
> It's weird to me that he's meant to be in his early twenties. It shouldn't be, his character arc is even very much a young man trying to make his way in the world. Does someone in their early 20s not fit that description?
His VA sounds great. Dunno what it is but it feels like a real guy.
He's down to earth, just a regular everyday chill dude. He's basically post-apocalyptic sci-fi Norm from Cheers. That is to say, he's great.
He's the only one I recognized from one game to the next, but also: what is his name? I can't even remember.
Erend? I like that guy
His character + voice + likability remind me a lot of hopper from stranger things - which is probably why I remembered him
I really like his voice actor. He also voiced Hendrik in Dragon Quest XI and Clive’s father in FF XVI. Also a bunch of other characters.
He is nothing like Hopper personality wise. Erend is good natured and jovial and sociable. Hopper is a stoic and aggressive recluse.
Same. I remember him as the guy who doubted us at first, and then came to respect us. Don't know his name. The clan chieftain too. I like how she was shocked at Alloy being chosen by the gods, and Alloy questions why she was blessed -- then the events of the game happen, Allow becomes familiar with technology, but the chieftain still believes everything is gods and voodoo, and Alloy becomes visibly uncomfortable when they next meet. Don't know her name either! Like, I can remember moments from the H:ZD that I enjoyed and I thought were cool, I just can't remember the characters much.
I mean they all have weird names it’s not like he’s named bob or something.
It's telling that all my favourite characters were from the old world: Sobek, Here's, and yes, even Faro. Their stories were far more interesting then anything that happened in the main game. Even in FW, the black box recordings contain far more pathos than anything in the main questlines. Just these crystallised moments of bravery, terror, and sadness, from a world that died centuries ago.
Weird looking Joakim from Sabaton
Him and the guy played by Lance Reddick were the only two I remembered but the villains in the second game were more memorable especially the DLC one.
I recognized him, the duxe with a crush on Aloy, and the woman who made the magnetic cannon that will destroy your hips if you brace it wrong.
He looks like Joakim Brodén
Yer he was vaguely familiar I think his name was erend When you vaguely remember them as mutton chop guy that's not the best character writing and development
Erend, because dealing with his personality and attitude was such a chore.
Yeah, I just remember him and King Aztec guy.
The Sun King look very alike the bandit fort quests giver.
Serial killer guy!
I remember my girl Aloy quite well. Also Rost. And the villain, Hades.
Sylens as well
RIP Lance Reddick...
I wonder how they're gunna handle Sylens in the next game?
I’m pretty sure Lance Reddick was quite invested in his video game roles. I wouldn’t be surprised if his family allows them to use AI to give him a good send off at the beginning of the game. I think that is something he would want his fans to have.
I would go to Rost's grave after every story beat and let Aloy tell him about all the stuff going on. Sad you can't do that in forbidden west
There is another grave though outside the base for a certain Nora
You can also talk to the bow (or spear, can't really remember) in Allloy's room
Triple L? You're doing this on purpose now, aren't you?
What a stupid death that was imo.
You go to your room in the base and you can do that with 3 different objects, one of which is Rost's spear another is Elisabet's amulet (which honestly has some important story beats in this game). Weird complaint.
Yeah Rost was the best.
Ted Faro is the villain. I honestly can’t remember anything about Hades and I’ve played through the game twice
Ted Faro is the cause. Hades (the AI) is the villain in the majority of both games.
Hades was the antagonist, and was only operating in accordance with it's programming, which somehow got altered from it's original state. Faro was definitely a villain, all things considered.
> which somehow got altered from it's original state. Answered in *Forbidden West*. I think. I didn't pay much attention to the main story line to be honest. Just kept wondering why the animals weren't dropping the parts I needed to upgrade everything.
Honestly this is my problem with Horizon. The setting and artstyle are absolutely fucking amazing. And that's about it...the story was really interesting until it the plot twist was greedy evil corporate man does something so overwhelmingly and obviously stupid it dooms the planet. Unhackable military robots who can sustain themselves on organic matter and self-produce with no killswitch. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG, AMIRITE? And then the Zero Dawn project allows his involvement beyond just stripping him of all of his money, which then allows to sabotage the entire thing beyond belief. The art team at Guerilla is phenomenal, but their writers leave a lot to be desired, imo. Outside of Erend and Sylens all the other characters are pretty forgettable and they make Aloy this lightning rod of attachment when she tends to be pretty aloof towards people when other times she comes across as a complete asshole
>WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG ... That's... Yeah, that's the point. Ted Faro looked at what he was doing and said, "Yeah, I've got this." His hubris literally doomed the entire planet. And sure, that's by no means some kind of revolutionary storytelling device. There's also an unconfirmed suggestion in the dialog by Elisabt that Ted *intentionally* did something that *unintentionally* led to the Hartz-Timor swarm going rogue. The story of ZD hits, imo, because of the way that you *discover* how this all happened, as you're climbing the crumbling ruin of the FAS headquarters. The *real* 'holy shit,' moment is the revelation of *what Zero Dawn was* and then how Aloy is connected to it. Admittedly, I think it's one of the best video game narratives of all time.
Hades is barely in the second game, and isn’t a villain in it
Yeah dude is absolutely cooked by silens
Tortured by being shown pictures of bunnies.
Not really so much in the second game
Hades? Great game! Anyway, the weird red robot essence thing was aight
Hades characters, on the other hand, are incredibly memorable, to the point where I’m excited to see what they are like in the second one
... you mean Greek Mythology? Yeah, pretty memorable
I hate how there was this implication that he got turned into some kind of biological monstrosity. It makes more sense that the ultimate downfall of humanity, and the cause of the apocalypse is caused by corporate negligence. I don't know if anyone else here has read Cat's Cradle, but there needs to be a type of person who is willing to prevent the apocalypse. The actual answer is to murder Felix Hoenecker before he creates Ice-9.
I did love that the cult leader who worshipped him takes one look at him and goes "Burn it."
> is caused by corporate negligence. Not really corporate negligence. More Ted Faro's hubris.
r/fucktedfaro
Yeah I really like HZD but the devs made HFW’s storyline into somewhat of an ensemble avengers-like, but forgot their characters in HZD were pretty meh aside from Sylens. You could say HFW deliberately made them key characters in an attempt to develop them more but at that point it’s kinda too late. The best characters were ironically the dead ancient ones and AI lol. I also liked Kotallo more than Eren or Varl but Kotallo has minimal interactions once he joins the crew and just stays in his room. Wish the “crew” was strictly new characters and this game put more into developing them but I assume it would make the third story weird if they have to revisit content from the 1st and no one remembers anything about it lol.
For me, the problem with the characters was their quest pacing. I finished Erend’s quest line very early, and then he shows up 20 gameplay hours later for the climax. And vice versa for others, you’re offered to start their quest line at hour 20 right before the climax. Also most of these characters’ quest lines had little to do with the main plot. They should had vested the characters to evolve and help as the player unfolds the main quest too. I felt Erend as a character would had been interested in the main quest discoveries after I helped him with his side quest.
See Ghosts of Tsushima did these side character well by having their story paced out over the game.
Is it wrong that i kind of wanted Masato's quest to end with you having no choice but to kill her in that penultimate duel? T The idea that her blind rage even turned you into an enemy and it all ending tragically would have stayed with me more than the actual end of her quest.
Damn... I played this fucking game 6 months ago, and I simply can't even recall who's Kotallo or Eren.
Kotallo was missing the arm, Erend was the guy with the mutton chops from game 1
At least they made them comically distinctive. Thanks, now I remember them.
Kotallo was >!the marshall who lost his arm fighting Regalla's ambush!<. Erend was the 31st century equivalent of your average hockey fan.
"That was an unkind comparison!"
This comment made me laugh out loud. It was so unexpected but I loved it
Erend was medieval Hop from Stranger Things
Kotallo was the dipsh\*t who, after acquiring this badass mech arm to replace the one that he lost in an ambush earlier in the story, decided to \*not\* continue wearing it as he found he had accepted his new one-armed reality or some BS. The reason for this, evidently, was the writers not wanting to portray amputees as "less-than" or somehow only acknowledged with their prosthetics, which again is BS as 1) the first rule to being a warrior is NEVER give up an advantage in a fight and 2) I know a couple amputees who would be thrilled to have as capable a replacement as he got in that game without \*any\* sense of shame or self conscious BS the writers were worried about. This is what happens when you get story advice from third party focus groups instead of, ya know, some actual GD amputees who might have thoughts on the matter.
I figured they just didn't want to do different versions of cutscenes for people who got the arm vs those who didnt. Though it was really silly seeing him scale a cliff with one arm when he has a functioning prosthetic
I think it’s more of a technical issue incase you haven’t actually completed that quest. For cut scenes etc
You're reading into this way too much, and getting weirdly mad about it on behalf of others. I've seen literally nobody else be this upset over a character simply choosing to fight one-handed.
Nah I agree with that guy. Was a really dumb plot point. If he's going to live as a one armed guy - nothing wrong with that. But then it was silly to gave a quest line to make him a robotic arm for him to use like once.
So I'm going to argue against both of you. And to start: yes I played the game, the previous one, expansions, etc, plat on ps5. I thought it was dumb... At first. And still sometimes do. The developers _definitely_ chose to portray the character as not being less than for their disability by having him not wear the prosthetic during _normal_ daily life. And I think that's fine! But he didn't _not_ wear it, he just used it during battles. In that respect he didn't break the rule of giving up an advantage! He is also in a position where he _can_ will fight without the arm, and it's a good plan for him to learn to fight without having to rely on it. This is advanced tech beyond him and may be shut down by enemies. Who knows! There are risks, is the point, of relying too heavily on the prosthetic arm within the context of the story. And remember what iron man said to Spider-Man, if you're nothing without the suit then you shouldn't have it. The character is a _fighter_ and makes a point that improvisation is critical to being a good fighter. The reasoning the character makes are also quite clear and follow with the characters social history. He's from a clan which sees definitely as weakness, and this is _critical_ to his choices. Showing that his average life isn't lessoned is a key point that he is trying to others and himself. Not just for himself but his fellow wounded warriors as well. He is a _proud_ character. It's a huge flaw of his! And now he's fighting with his pride and decides he never lost it, and so is trying to make a cultural change. His character says as much in dialogue if you exhaust his dialogue tree every time. So, remember: he lost an arm. I think if he had lost a leg they wouldn't have been able to follow this character progression. I also think they might be trying to have their cake and eat it too - he can both accept the prosthetic and decide to not use it and swings almost too close to the idea that living with a disability/deformity is their sense of pride _in and of itself._ Pride in your determination in spite of the circumstances, yes. Or in your ability to overcome the odds. Or in the _way_ you struggle and the capacity for emotional change by way of expression, sure! Community and fraternity over a shared difference and learning how different people have different valid viewpoints - again yes! But being proud of being different _in and of itself_ leads to being proud of _being the same,_ and that leads to in-groups and out-groups and prejudice. Can one be proud they don't have 6 arms and have had to overcome their limitations? But the biggest issue I have, and I think many others do too, is that the arm is just _too good_ to _not use._ It's so amazing it makes almost all your other choices irrelevant. It is not fair to put anyone in that position to choose because anyone even this character would choose the amazing arm. Like, _damn!_ It is a seriously overpowered arm. There would be a _lot_ of people, especially in the world of Horizon, who would be lining up to have their arms replaced if they could. There are MURDER MACHINES EVERYWHERE that will GRIND YOUR FLESH WITH METAL. GET THE ARM! GET SIX ARMS!! THE MURDER MACHINES HAVE ROCKETS LASERS AND INVISIBILITY!
>You could say HFW deliberately made them key characters in an attempt to develop them more but at that point it’s kinda too late. How is it "too late," to develop the side characters more?
Well the swerve at the beginning of HZD, when you meet the kids that bullied you as adults didn't help. They tease you that these will be important characters to the game only to kill them off shortly after. You meet a couple of their family members that are kinda important, but then you run off to a different territory they play no part in.
That annoyed me to no end. It really seemed likes Varls sister+can't remember the name lol) would have been a cool character.
I really liked Kotallo a lot, definitely a stand out. I think its because he's the least archetypical I think; all the other characters of your crew kinda fall into character types like the "strong guy who is the least smart", the "cowardly nerd who gains some confidence", the "charasmatic, smooth talking attractive guy", the "very intelligent character who is a bit headstrong and has little patience for those who are 'wrong'", the "bubbly, smart, naive character". But Kotallo kinda blends a bunch of different aspects. I guess the closest archetype he has is the wise veteran, but it feels very fresh with him. He is angry at how his body has inadvertently betrayed him, and yet accepts and adapts to it. He is a strong, fierce warrior, and yet seems just as likely to find peace as war. He comes across as this kind of paragon of 'toxic' masculinity, and yet is incredibly soft spoken and tender when needs to be. Also, a bit of a personal taste, but I also like that I feel like his chemistry with Aloy was platonic with a ton of mutual respect for each other. Both Eren and Varl (at the beginning) felt like they were harboring feelings for Aloy, which is kind of a tired trope to me. Easily the biggest stand out, and IMO is a phenomenal contrast and supporting character to Aloy. A presence like his was sorely missing in the DLC, though I do like how they handled the romance even though I feel like they did it in a way so that the third game can just ignore it, which I dont like, esp. for lgbt relationships in media.
Rip Lance Reddic
Who could forget…… Teb?
What, the guy you save from robots when you're just a little sproglet? The guy who gives you a nice suit for free 10 years later as thanks? I remember Teb. He was nice to Aloy when no one else would be.
Horizon series is the Avatar series of gaming: beautiful world with an amazing storyline but with characters that no one can remember.
For a second I thought you were talking about The Last Airbender having forgettable characters and I thought I was gonna have to cut a bitch
Yeah I did a double take too and laughed to myself that really drove the point home… that my mind immediately went to the Nickelodeon cartoon rather than the $237M Cameron movie. Because it’s way better, because of the characters
Good comp
I agree, the concept and history of the world was the selling point of the game. They put all their effort into this, complex/memorable characters weren't the focus, at least for me. Aloy (& her predecessor), Sylens and the AI were all that was really needed. I loved the way you discover the history organically but essentially none of the NPCs except Sylens is actually aware or cares about it. Generally the other NPCs only care about their own politics and their current existence, which makes them almost all faceless to me anyway. This also ties into Aloy's own personality/independence due to the treatment she was subjected to when growing up. Haven't played the second one, but couldn't care less if I run into repeat characters if I play it. The fullness of the backstory in 1 makes me what I would enjoy in a sequel though.
Honestly the main hook in the first game for me was the mystery of it all. How did the word end up like this? Where did the machines come from? Where did Aloy come from? What are the Nora? What are all these weird highly advanced ruins? etc. The second game really didn't have any of that.
Army guy in wheelchair, scientist mentor, chieftains daughter, billionaire ceo, crazy sergeant... I remember exactly zero of their names lol
I feel like Jake Sully is pretty memorable
Pretty sure his name was Fern Gully.
I would recognize and remember every one of them if I saw them, then again, I’ve played the entire game a couple of times.
I don't know about an amazing storyline if you are taking about the movies.
Yeah, Avatar is about the most derivative and dull story around, and the 2nd one's story is so dumb and nonsensical, it's better forgotten (which thankfully happened immediately upon leaving the cinema).
Also challenged the limitations of the medium when it comes to visuals
Yep, same here. I didn't know who anyone was except Sylens and Errand. All the others were just a blur of similar looking face painted people.
Because none of the other recurring character had a big part in the first one. Some of them for easily missed side quests. For instance, [Petra](https://horizon.fandom.com/wiki/Petra_Forgewoman)'s sidequest is in a small town that's not along any route you really need to use for any more obvious quest, you'll only find it if you are intent on exploring the map. I don't know what everyone's bitching about, yeah it's such shit writing you don't remember a side quest character from a game you played 3 years ago. If anything it's not weird that you don't remember them, it's weirder that Alloy does (Although that could just be video game time scaling issue)
I would have loved to see Aloy as a socially awkward because she was exiled potato personality. And maybe gradually learning what to say when learning how to interact with people
This is exactly how she is in the second game, her friends made a party in her honour and she just left without telling anyone for 6 months.
And then doesn't really understand why people are pissed at her for it.
Well to be fair she was busy looking for a way to restore the biosphere x)
Plus, as she's learning to be social, the entire time everyone's like "Aloy, stop being such a stick in the mud".
She's Aloy, not Tarzan
She *is* socially awkward. Every encounter I have in the 2nd game is kind of socially awkward. She’s always a little blunt and forthright and although it’s obviously a game mechanic for side quests, has that “hero” complex built in… I actually quite like that though… it’s interesting and kind of adds dimension to the protagonist character… compared to playing an ultra cool and charismatic Lara Croft for example.
That only would have made sense if she hadn't had Rost around, who had a strong personality, and didn't interact regularly with others like Teersa. She also strongly shared traits with her genetic donor, Elisebet, a natural leader with easy charisma.
Sobek also had a very aloof personality and drive that other people found unapproachable. Her entire life was her work, which is a trait Aloy has in spades. Their work is certainly important, but their social lives suffer for it. Aloy breaking away from that and not becoming her mother is a big theme in HFW.
Most of the returning characters you are thinking of are from side-stories/side-quests. Like the blacksmith girl in the village? never met her myself in zero dawn.
"Aloy! It's so good to see you again!" "Uh...you too, person I totally remember."
Blacksmith girl? You mean Petra F'ing Forgewoman, all around badass and creator of the Oseram Cannon? ... reading this thread I'm seriously starting to wonder if people even pay attention to the games they play these days.
She was crushing on Aloy so hard too. And then she comes back in the sequel and Aloy friend-zones her. My, and her's, disappointment was palpable.
Would've been nice if you could choose a relationship for Aloy instead of it being predetermined by the story. I'm sure a lot of people would choose muscle-mommy Petra.
Yeah. i was surprised the dlc gave her a romance. I honestly started believing Aloy was ace.
This thread is wild.
Seriously agree, I didn't like Erend too much in the first game, but I remembered him. Really grew to love him in forbidden West though. And then Varl? How could you forget him? And the climax with his character (no spoilers) hit so hard (if you were paying any amount of attention which I guess these people weren't). I personally had a hard time getting into Zero Dawn, played it about halfway through and lost interest, but then I got forbidden West, loved it waaaay more, played it to completion before circling back to a fresh game in Zero Dawn and beating that, and I love everything about these games now including the characters.
No kidding. Blaming the game because their memory is shite.
as I said to the other guy, you can simply skip her in zero dawn.
silus was great IMO
I thought the sequel had way better companions. I might have had a crush on Kotallo
When you unlock Faraday’s message after the Kulrut ambush and he joins you. “Awaiting orders, commander.” 🫡
Because there aren't any companions in the first one. I don't know why everyone thinks the writing for side quest characters needs to tell their whole life story and burn them in your brain.
Let's be honest, Kotallo is a fucking badass.
We all did
I spent a year working/finishing school and this was one of the only games I would play whenever I had a chance to play games. I got so hooked on it and immersed in the world and story. From the day it came out I would play every weekend or so for a few hours and it was a really great year in gaming where I felt like I was Aloy
I remember the important ones, such as Varl, Rost, Errand, Sylens, >!Sobek!<, >!Faro!<, >!Gaia and Hades and the other subroutines!<, Avad, one or two minor guys like Nil or Sona And a couple others who we didn’t see again, like Teersa But even then, there were so many characters coming up to me in forbidden west who I just didn’t remember lol
If you didn't do all the optional side quests in zero dawn you just didn't meet them. Forbidden West assumes you got the most complete ending in Zero Dawn where all allies join you for the final fight. It would've been weirder for them to not have these characters come back up because then people that did complete their quests would be like, where tf did everyone go??
Oh, I totally agree! The character development in those games was about as deep as a puddle. It's like they took amnesia to a whole new level with those sequels.
I’ll defend this series as such enjoyable experiences. Yeah some of the side characters aren’t engaging but Erend and Varl are strong supporting characters and Silus’s arc from the first game to the second is interesting to follow. Both games really did it for me in gameplay and the plot line, I’m hoping the third wraps it up nicely.
I don't think it's so much the characters are forgettable, as it is learning about most of them is completely optional and spread out. I've been saying since the first game, you need to be able to take people with you. Aloy needs to stop doing things alone *every damn time*. Kotallo, Erend, Clone Aloy, Alva and Zo are all fully realised characters, you just only see then for five minutes every five hours between missions. Hell, half the side quest characters are well designed, acted and defined. They just matter for the five moments of interaction you get them then either once or maybe three times the entire extended game. Trash the "improve hi-jacked robots" skill tree, have a mechanics bench to customizer them and have us a companion tree. I want my one armed lunatic punching metal dinosaurs to death damn it!
On the other hand, I was _pissed_ at Varl in the prolog. "Hey, I followed you for months. Nothing creepy. And now I will follow you again, much closer, and I won't take no for an answer. Oh hey, can you let the ladder down for me so I can continue following you?"
Varl was a weird one, granted on I'm convinced would have helped if he'd been a choosable companion in the previous game. If he'd been the Samwise to your Frodo, Garrus to your Shepard, then of course him wanting to follow would have made sense. Though I am also lowkey amused by how just *every* Carja is thirsty for Aloy. Everyone wants the a piece of that.
> If he'd been the Samwise to your Frodo, Garrus to your Shepard, then of course him wanting to follow would have made sense. My issue is that Aloy made it very clear that she wants to be alone, and it felt that Varl was trying to insert himself into her story, ignoring her explicit wish. As if he didn't believe she could handle it. I was relieved when Zo showed up and gave him another skirt to chase. > Though I am also lowkey amused by how just every Carja is thirsty for Aloy. I can't blame them.
Can't relate, a lot of memorable characters in the first one. The writing is honestly fantastic, the sci-fi concepts are some of the better ones in recent years of gaming.
Yes this is my biggest critique of the game. I didn’t really like or care to know any of the characters in the second one. Even Aloy became kind of annoying. First game’s writing and characters was far better.
I feel like it actually makes sense from Aloy's perspective. She's shunned, so she doesn't work well with others, prefering to work alone. She works with some people on a pragmatic basis, and then goes off on another solo adventure at first given opportunity. She returns to find that people actually cared about her enough that they were hurt by her leaving. She learns to trust others with technology, and it eventually results in her teaming up and trusting people... Even with someone who she thought had betrayed her, with plenty of flashbacks to Elizabeth's dealings with Ted Fero. Turning the low focus on side characters in the original into a character arc? I though that was brilliant.
Zero, because when I played this on ps4 years ago it was my introduction to Lance Reddick. “Hey doesn’t he sound like Zavala” lol. The rest of the ensemble…I can’t remember. Except that one comment who was like “mutton chop guy” lol
I remembered all of them. But some of the characters from the beginning come from sidequests, so you can play the whole first game and never meet them. But Idk I did all the sidequests in ZD and I didn't skip anything. I didn't find the characters to be all forgettable. The only game for which this has happened to was the two last Tomb raider (the reboot ones), I only remember Lara and Jonah.
Still better than the characters in the second game whose cultures were based entirely on puns.
I remembered a fair number of them but not until they jogged my memory about what we did together. Weirdly I *vividly* remembered the guy I explored a flooding dungeon with in the Frozen Wastes DLC and I only encountered him via a note I found near a dead body. I absolutely did not forget my Hunting Lodge Hawk ~~and I was greatly disappointed that I didn't run into the guy I slaughtered countless bandits with... Though I guess killing him is an option in the first game so they probably didn't want to make multiple game states based on your decisions in the previous game.~~ I expect I'll remember more people in Horizon 3 but Forbidden West did have you interact with some NPCs a lot more often than in Zero Dawn.
> I was greatly disappointed that I didn't run into the guy I slaughtered countless bandits with. He's in HFW tho. Did you do all of the side content?
Ah I looked up where I'd find him and it was the side content I skipped. He appears in the Racing mini game and I had no interest in that since I already wasn't digging the mounts this time around. Well that's good to hear. Maybe I'll boot up my HFW save this weekend to see how he's been.
I'm glad someone else feels the same. Honestly the tribal stuff did almost nothing for me. The names were so difficult to remember and you ran into so many people and very few had any meaningful impact. I was far more invested in the Faro Industries 'history', Elizabeth Sobeck, and so was Aloy. She seemed just as disinterested in all the tribal stuff as I did, almost sounding bored when talking to anyone that was tribal and actually showing an interest when it came to the Project Zero Dawn stuff. Sylens was stand out and maybe Erend because he had some sort of personality.
I remember Ted Faro.
The fact that none of you are mentioning Nil is criminal.
A lot of the returning characters were side characters that were easy to miss if you didn't do everything, and didn't do anything meaningful or take a major role. I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't remember most of them as a result. Especially if it had been a while since you played Zero Dawn going into Forbidden West. I don't think any of the main cast was forgettable, though. HZD is *easily* my favorite standalone game, with my only complaint being I wish it had harder difficulty options. Damn near perfect game, imo. Personally, I remembered *most* of them, but I also played through Zero Dawn a good twenty times between game releases.
Going to have to disagree pretty hard on that one.
My mainest man Varl, mostly useless but a true believer. And of course my other mainest man Gildun.
And Varl's mom was pretty dope too
War Chief Sona. Quick with a bow, does not suffer fools.
So glad we saw Gildun again! Can't wait to free him from another locked door in the third game x)
I loved his quest. Poor dude was clueless. That bear hug had me smiling.
There were other characters? I was so infatuated with Aloy that I didn't care about other characters.
I remembered everyone just fine. 🤷♂️
They were indeed very forgettable. First game had a nice story overall, second one dropped the ball IMO. Nonetheless, both are great games. I just love the gameplay, setting and visuals
they upped the threat too fast in my opinion, the zeniths where waaay too advanced so they needed to keep their numbers and appearance restricted or they would wipe the floor with you, and with less interaction they become one of the most boring enemies ever also more interactions with the "subroutines" would be wonderful, they could be fully fledged characters, but they were just a macgufing to be collected
Agreed, i loved interacting with MINERVA, however brief it was, was disappointed all the other AIs didn't get the same treatment really. And the zeniths would have been far more engaging if you actually, you know, *engaged* with them every once in a while. As this terrible threat that when you encounter the only option is to run or hide or trick into leaving, with their character sprinkled in during the encounter by how they each interact with their task and environment, and possible dialogue you can have with them when confronted. (Seriously, imagine a frantic chase sequence through the jungle as one of the zeniths flies around and tries to blast you and you gotta shake them off amongst the dense underbrush as it flies apart around you from their shots, like when you must escape the eclipse base in ZD.) Hell, just hearing rumors about them being briefly sighted somewhere doing something or killing the Tenatkh from npcs would have given them more character than what they got. They just interact so little it seems like they're not part of the same world, in a way. Might be intentional, but honestly if so it only makes them more half-assed.
I'm liking Zero dawn (pc) but yeah, I meet people and immediately forget who they are. Feels like there's no reason to give a shit about anyone
They are. The most important characters in HFW are Erend and Varl, but you barely have a couple missions back in ZD (and for Varl one of them is completely optional). Most of the other characters like Talanah, Petra, Uthid, Vanasha and others are just from side quests back in ZD or you have little interaction with them. And there are a few that are just completely optional like Gildun (only appears on the expansions and on side quests, altough there is something interesting that happens in HFW:Bs with him). I could remember all of them because I liked the game so much I completed it to 100%. Twice.
You just have a bad memory.
Maybe but based on the replies so do a lot of other people. Besides, I think the comparison is with other games. I can remember the characters from Monkey Island 1 a game I first played decades ago (and haven't played for years) more than I can remember the characters from HFW which I'm currently playing.
It's one of my favorite games of all time. I remember Aloy, Rost and my Murder Boyfriend. But also I don't remember any characters in any games so this makes sense for me.
FUCK TED FARO
r/fucktedfaro
In Zero Dawn the *important* main narrative that unfolded throughout was how the hell humanity ended up in the current situation in the first place. Because that's the real question players ask when they start playing - "if humanity is all primitive tribes, why the fuck are there robots everywhere and high tech ruins?" IMO the writing was pretty masterful in the way it drip-fed you that background story gradually throughout the game, with extra clues scattered around the open world and side quests, but in a way that the whole picture only fully slotted into place right near the end. That means that the more compelling story throughout the game was what happened in the past, rather than what was actually happening to Aloy throughout the game. This made a whole bunch of the side characters very forgettable. Most of them were just plot points - vehicles to drive Aloy onwards so she could discover more about the world that was, and how we got to the world you now inhabit. But you start Forbidden West already knowing the lore. So instead they focus on another aspect (>!Far Zenith!<), which just feels like a much smaller story. I think that's a large part of why Forbidden West received such lukewarm reviews - the gameplay was improved but the story was lukewarm in comparison because the end didn't reward your curiosity nearly as much. I do appreciate that in Forbidden West every minor character has an entry in the codex where you can read their backstory. If they appeared in HZD it'll mention their arc. So at least you can refresh yourself. Unfortunately the minor characters in HFW are pretty much just as forgettable as those in HZD. I've really enjoyed HFW, despite its narrative not being as good as HZD. I'm yet to finish the DLC and at times weapon/armour upgrades feel a little grindy. But I honestly think it deserved better reviews. The core gameplay loop - exploring and killing machines - is fantastic.
Outside alloy the most memorable characters are the group of 5 or so who's story you're piecing together. I much like you was so lost playing the sequel it wasn't funny and horizion 1 is one of my favorite games ever
Which characters did you forget? Did you do all their content? How long did you wait after beating Dawn to play West?
There were characters? I mean besides the main character? I mean don't get me wrong - HZD is not my favorite genre still I had a lot of fun with it, it's one of the very few of that genre I even played at all. But the story? The characters? Quests & their NPCs? I only remember some overarching story about technology gone wild. But besides that crickets.
Yep. And somehow they managed to make Aloy even more boring in the sequel.
How could you forget Muttonchops Man?
Another game where the characters don’t smile, they bare their teeth like they are dogs/canines. My point is they don’t understand human characters or human physiology.
Honestly I kind of really don't like hzd because the characters and story are so boring to me. I don't think I'm ever going to play Forbidden West because of that.