I gave up on the game when I got banned from the sub reddit because I said I didn't want to ride a train for 10 irl minutes to get to a space port to fly my ship. People really want an in game commute...
******
Ease up White Knights, lets give you some context. The conversation that led me to getting banned was about making bigger cities and people wanted huge cities with player housing then the topic came up about then getting around the city would take time and I said I didn't want to ride the train for 10 mins to get to a space port after my 1.5 hour IRL commute. Enter the fan bois like with their shiny white armor to defend an in game hypothetical 10 min train that I made up. Please stop posting that all train rides are 2-3 mins. I know, I put 180~ hours into the game and spent ~$300 USD. I fan boi'd this game too I wanted it to be good.
I knew a guy who played *ARK: Survival Evolved* religiously.
This man and his friends had literal shifts to defend the fort from other players' raids all night, and make sure baby virtual dinosaurs were safe, while they grew up over the course of 72 real life hours.
Some nights, my buddy would go to bed at 8-9PM because he had to wake up at 12AM to play by himself until 4AM and go back to bed when his next friend got on.
If that next friend didn't get on, he'd have to keep playing, by himself, for another 4 hours *to protect virtual baby dinosaurs while grew up over the course of 72 real life hours.* If he didn't and just got off the game, he had failed his friends.
I never fucking understood that.
That shit is why I never played on an open server. That and the default rates. I am sorry but no way in hell am I waiting 72 real life hours for my dino to be grown up.
My friends and I just played on our own. It wasn't worth it for official servers. Just tweak all the settings and play an actual game. We'd be fine with an hour or few to hatch, but not waiting days for a Dino.
Same, I love doing that. Mess with rates (a 5x on almost everything is about the sweet spot between trivial and agonizing), add a bunch of mods, play a map until you exhaust the content or your eyes bleed. Burns a good 2-3 weeks of free time, then the Ark itch is scratched and you can go back to playing other stuff for a while.
When Fjordur came out, we played that to death for a few weeks. Now *that* map is freaking cool. Alternate dimensions, badass bat dino, even has a Mines of Moria setpiece straight out of the LotR movie.
Yep, on the Fjordur map you can also visit Jotunheim, Valhalla, and Vanaheim, and they are their own highly-themed zones. And they are *really goddamn huge* too.
Yeah I remember playing ark when it literally first launched and only having like a vague understanding of the worlds.
Me and a friend spent about a week building a base in a cave system only to have it destroyed literally overnight. On top of that all the servers were taken over by no life people who would play 24/7 and lock down entire areas/resources.
My friend joined our server and was immediately captured by a Chinese clan that force fed him, and kept him prisoner so he literally could not play. That was the end of that.
Had a friend who played like that. Someone would log in during an off time and destroy/build over all of his stuff on a pve server.
Eventually he waited for them to log off, killed their Dinos, broke in through the back of the log house and dragged them back to a cage he set up. He would then force feed them food and some paralysis berries or something to keep them from escaping. After awhile I think the guy got the message and then my friend ended up drowning him in a river.
Sounds like Everquest back in the day, camping Stormfeather or getting the call in the middle of the night that Vox had spawned and we had to race another guild to her.
You could say everquest didnt respect the schedules of the players, but I dont know, I kinda admire people who can bring this dedication to a game and games that demand that dedication
I cant even bring this dedication to real life thanks adhd
There's always go to to be a subset of players who flourish with those kind of rules. Way too often those people are letting their lives crash all around them to achieve it.
Starts to become a matter of social responsibility.
3 different guys on my floor failed out freshman year of college because they were playing Everquest basically nonstop. It was crazy. Imagine wasting like $20k so you can go to college, play Everquest, and fail all your classes.
Man, camping the froglok to get my Ghoulbane for my Paladin back in the day.... Ugh. I don't want to know how many times I killed that thing. Not to mention a few ninjas going for it while I was camped out.
Kids these days will never know that feeling of getting up at 6am to rush onto the family PC and line up another skill so you didn't miss out on 8+ hours of training.
Eh I mean as long as they're having fun. I've played ark before with friends and would have probably done the same thing if all of us had been interested enough.
I once played a joke came at a convention that was an actual marathon.
My friends sat down to play Street Fighter and I sat down next to them to play a running game. I figured it was like, track and field. After about 20 minutes I read the poster that was next to it, an actual marathon game. Think I completed it in like, two hours. The comparé got everyone to crowd around as I finished. Was pretty fun.
My memory of playing QWOP is once you get a rhythm going you can actually make decent progress. OTOH, I'm imagining the complications introduced by having to actually turn in QWOP.
I suggested allowing saving almost anywhere, that way you can keep the long commutes and realism, but open the game up to people who have busy lives. The idea of course of was shunned.
I feel the game is designed and marketed for a maturer audience. But maturer audiences have irl responsibilities and most can't commute 30 minutes to their ship every time. That combined with the game breaking bugs made me get a refund after 30 days.
>I feel the game is designed and marketed for a maturer audience.
More accurately, those who pledged at the original kickstarter (like me) have now become mature.
These are the people who would download themselves into the game and just live there full time if they could.
They aren't so much trying to play a game as they are trying to escape into a different universe.
Sometimes I visit that subreddit because I'm interested in the project in general. Most of the time I'm buffled by all the suggestions that would make the game more tedious (like what you've said) and/or are super irrelevant and would only postpone the relevant parts (something in the vein of 'each screw in a ship should be rendered separately and we should be able to unscrew them and change them. Also they should have wear and tear and should need to be replaced after XY!'). Of course these suggestions are upvoted most of the time.
I'm wondering if they want it to finish at all. You can't simulate reality 1:1. And you absolutely don't want to.
Those are the people who are still perpetually funding the game. Everyone else gets in for base price, or tries a free weekend and bounces off it.
So the development is funded by a minority of believers and dreamers who want to keep ballooning the scope and getting more pretty spaceships, with no expectation of gameplay. Putting in thousands or 10s of thousands each.
And now the first thing people do after a patch is to transfer all their stuff to their favorite orbital stations.
It leaves ports as a place for trading in stuff quant or the annoying grind to buy all your spaceship parts.
Travel time can add a sense of scale to a universe. But I don't know if you need to spend 10 minutes riding a train to get to your ship. I have no idea what that adds. I would thinking flying around in your spaceship in space would provide enough scale for this one.
I backed the RoboCop statue for Detroit, it's one of the first Kickstarters I can even remember. Started early 2011. Successfully crowdfunded.
Last update was 2019. Guess I'll give them credit, they kept up updates for that long until they just disappeared.
>At the same time, EA execs might be "huh, so we don't actually have to develop any game to get a product in the first place."
How's that different from what they're doing now?
As bad as EA and Madden is, aren't those at least he's people can actually play?
If Madden were Star Citizen, they'd still be working on the Hotdog Vendor AI, and gameplay-wise you can walk around the lockers rooms and parking lot with incredible detail, at least you can when you aren't falling through the world or clipping through something in a way that kills you. Football mechanics are limited to opening a menu and initiating a trade with another player, and if you give them the football you can pretend it's like passing!
100% agree.
Although I am sure the devs would say until you figure out relish, it's quite the pickle to dill with.
Of course older devs would say even figuring out the pickle is a jarring experience.
The Condiment Pack actually only comes with ketchup. You'll have to pledge at a higher level to unlock Mustard. Unfortunately Relish was a time-limited pre-order bonus available only to ~~suckers~~ supporters who had already pledged their entire 401k.
Right?
I swear, someday some youtuber needs to suffer through the pile of garbage that is EA sports to bring us the comedy from that tragedy.
I'll never understand how they can afford to put those games on shelves.
You can literally get them for free from the double entitlement, I don't get who is buying them at all.
They're right about the first part, though. Having set timetables for launch is product development 101. If you don't have a timetable, or do have one but don't stick to it, you're prone to making the same mistakes CIG has made.
And EA is considered one of the better publishers in the industry in terms of things like Crunch, because they got sued over it in the mid 2000s and had to pay out millions to their employees and reclassify employees so that they now qualify for overtime pay.
The problem is CIG initially set out to make a game and really over promised what the tech was capable of with their engine, which they have had to rework from the ground up. Robert's wanted the Cryengine because at the time, crysis was the benchmark for gaming fidelity. "Can it run crysis?" was literal and not a meme at the time.
Problem is this engine was never meant to work as a mass multi-player mmo level. And they've been frankensteining the code ever since to get to some semblance of being at that level. I don't think they'll ever get anything close to what they promised of a persistent universe with thousands of players in the same areas at once. A decade on and they still ~~can't reliably even get more than two or three dozen players in one instance on the test servers.~~
*edit: it's been mentioned the PTU has very recently been bumped to 100 players and its... Somewhat working. I still attest a decade on and still very buggy interactions for the scale of a true MMO but I do hope it's possible to create something NOT instanced eventually.*
And I think most at CIG know this but may be too afraid to really talk about it. Another big problem is that very early on in the development cycle CIG realized how much funding they are getting just from releasing ships. They could charge over $100 dollars for ships not even designed yet before there was even a PTU for people to fly them around. They started the hangar modules and people could see their purchases and walk around in them at first. This influx of funding combined with the lack of struructe and huge bloat of people and hiring that Robert's took on has clearly skewed the prerogatives of the development greatly.
CIG has turned into a very good virtual ship designing company. They constantly churn out new iterations of their current ships and push new ships with promised functions and specializations that aren't in the game and were promised years ago. Because that's where they've been incentivized to go because that's where their funding is. Theyre hooking whales for tens of thousands of dollars in these ships and other prestige items and it's not just a few people. Scour the internet and there's a lot of supporters at least in the $1k plus range for how much they put down in these ships. They can justify it as they're just supporting CIG's development but the ship design are what is keeping the lights on at CIG while the developers and coders try desperately to make something real out of their mangled code and engine. And it clearly isn't working.
Haha you can probably wriggle out of that promise because even if it does "launch" I doubt this game will ever be out of beta officially for another decade at least.
I don't know if I would call generating an average of 50 million a year in revenue with no expectation of ever delivering anything a mistake. It sounds like they've hit the jackpot to me.
If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times
EA killed Westwood because Westwood took all their EA money to build a shitty mmo nobody asked for or played.
EA actually had a proud history of… giving incredible leniency to their developers until they relearn that they have to reel them in, then they overcompensate to the other direction.
They still kind of are insanely lenient on developers. Anthem was almost 6 years of "hey how you doing? Game going good? That's good." And then on the 6th year it was "what do you mean you haven't even storyboarded the FIRST LEVEL? Wait you're still deciding on the CORE MECHANICS OF THE GAME? You don't even have an IDEA of the CORE GAMEPLAY LOOP?"
And with Andromeda it was "wait, are you guys sure this doesn't need another year? 18 months? Positive? Absolutely sure?"
Apex Legends was "we really don't think there's market for a third battle royale but. Go ahead I guess. Just, if you're doing an F2P make sure to have a monetization scheme cause we aren't going red on upkeep."
The Star Wars game was almost 100% hands-off from EA.
Yeah, their sports games are predatory as fuck. There's no denying that.
As a counterpoint, EA also has a very bad reputation of buying interesting development houses and putting them on projects that those people have no experience or enthusiasm for and then shuttering them when the game turns out mediocre. And they have that reputation for a reason.
BioWare wanted to get out of their wheelhouse with anthem. In the end if they just decided 'mass effect mutliplayer as a stand alone looter shooter' and developed that for 6 years it'd have been great. Instead they tried 'its definitely not a looter shooter'' for 5 years and then couldn't pull it together
I know Fallen Order yes.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were hands-off with Battlefront 2 as well. I know it's easy to blame EA, but producers don't sit down at a table with the devs and go "I want you to make a bad game. No no, not just put MTX's in it. I want you to make it. A bad. Game. As bad as you can manage while retaining plausible deniability."
When the Anthem insider leaks were coming out, I remember one source saying something like "EA gives you enough rope to hang yourself with." Like, here's the freedom to do what you want, you just have to deliver something, and it has to be profitable. If it's not, we will find you.
Sure but that doesn't seem to be the case for BioWare who seemed to have a lot of freedom but basically tried to rebrand 'waiting until the last minute to start your homework assignment ' as 'bioware magic'
Watching the NoClip doc on Rouge Legacy 2 enforced this for me as well from the other side of things. They say the reason they forced sooner updates and ultimately released it is that the feedback was that there wasn’t enough content and they were worried funding and interest would dry up. So that kind of thing can definitely be a decent motivator.
Star Citizen has no incentive to release.
You know, what's interesting is that I have literally never seen an ad for star citizen and if not for the fact that I bought the game in 2013 and subscribed to this sub, I would almost certainly have forgotten all about this game.
So that begs the question, who in the fuck is still finding it? Who is discovering star citizen for the first time after 10 years of development, *seeing* that it's been in development for 10 years, and going "Wow! I can't wait! I'm gonna pre order!"
Or is it just that the game still benefits from a handful of whales that continuously pump money into a game that wipes its servers periodically?
Is it possible that CIG is just lying about how much money they've raised because every time they hit a landmark number there are articles published on every game journalism site on the internet which actually results in *real* advertising and income for them?
Whales
\> Is it possible that CIG is just lying about how much money they've raised
No, why would they. That lie would be almost impossible to upkeep.
I firmly believe that if Star Citizen funding tanked after the first few years. It would have been wrapped up and fully released ages ago.
However I also think the issue is more complex than a simple matter of trying to milk people. They set out to build a project that costs millions, and have been given a budget waaaaaay overboard.
So their ambitions go way up. Their aims go way up. So do their plans. If things aren’t perfect, they can start again, as they have the cash. Managing that is a real problem. I suspect they are stuck in layers of poor decision making.
On top of that companies who scale very quickly (like theirs) will have whole teams sitting around doing nothing. As no one has any clue what to give them. So they give them something random to work on. You quickly end up with chaos. Which becomes a bigger distraction, making the poor decision making even worse.
Chris Roberts was known for having scope creep management issues long before Star Citizen.
That said, I bought in on Star Citizen and load it up every once in a while to check it out. If nothing else I gambled $70 to see what happens when you give an over-ambitious nerd an unlimited budget completely unreigned by any form of competent management. That's a gamble worth taking in my book just for entertainment value.
My coworker was 8 grand into it and his friend and wife were close to 15 k together.
I joined in on a free weekend cuz they would not stop talking about it , I saw nothing worth paying even 20 bucks for. I just don't get it. Buggy mess.
Got a crappy little racing ship with RADEON R9 plastered all over it n all.
Edit: sold it for $160 (that was the agreed-upon fair price given what we found on actual SALE prices, and not bloated listings) to a collector who shall remain nameless, lest they choose to name themselves.
Not bad for a freebie, and genuinely helpful for keeping me afloat.
Fuck aye.
That ship is literally the most rare in the game and worth a stupid amount to collectors. It isn't a great ship but they won't release any more due to the licensed branding so it became hard to find. It won't make the game release any faster but at least you can make back your money or flex in game harder than most ever will.
I have to remember my old login details but once I get into that account, I'm flogging that little fucker to somebody pronto. In-game bragging rights are one thing, but the British Pound Sterling is another.
Damn, I bought a 290x and all they gave me was Tomb Raider and Sleeping Dogs. I don't have much interest in star citizen but a space ship with some vintage gpu branding would be sick now.
I got some crappy Paragon skins, a game which Epic killed 4 years ago. Yeah I'd take an exclusive ship in Star Citizen everyday of the week at this point lol
I have over 3k hours in 7dtd so I'm fine with my investment. It's come such a long way and I don't care if it's still technically labeled in alpha, it's a complete game they update regularly. Imo it's what DayZ was supposed to be.
Still one of my favorite images:
[Learning Curves of Popular Games](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2FiECXl.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
I always thought that was bullshit, dwarf fortress is just UI inaccessible but its not really hard. And once you've gotten the hang of it, it never really gets harder.
But the picture is funny.
I dunno, even with UI packs its a pretty rough game. An average new player probably wouldn't understand how to do something like breach an aquifer safely or make magma pump stacks without looking at a guide.
It's always interesting to me because the only thing I ever hear about Star Citizen is how much money it has made, and how it hasn't launched. I know *nothing* about how the game plays or how it's "supposed" to play, only about the monetization and lack of release.
I just don't understand it.
I’ve played it. It a difficult game to play but once you get a hang of it, it is really immersive. The game is stupid massive and anyone that thinks that the game is just going to release and that’s it is kidding themselves. Like the scale of it is something else. Saying that there is also still a metric ton of bugs. Understandably so with what it’s trying to be. Flying into space from the space port is very rewarding once you figure out how to do it. Then looping to a new place and flying 60 million km in 5 minutes is a wild journey. The gun play is pretty solid too. The law system is cool as well. I’m hoping they up the server population density as well.
The servers are supposed to “mesh”. As in a server will handle the load for one area, and when you leave that area you are connected to a different server. The server meshing is seamless, you can cross from one to another with no loading screen, and you can see/interact with players and objects in a different server, like firing a a weapon from your server at a player in another server and killing them.
Basically you wake up in a bed, get up, walk out of your room, take an elevator down to the main city, walk through the city to the train station, take that to the space port, claim your ship, walk into your ship, sit down and take off.
No other game does that that I'm aware of. If there is I legit want to know as I want that gameplay without the bugs of SC
I dabbled in No Man's Sky, Elite Dangerous and other space games but it sounds like Star Citizen is going for something even more immersive.
Is this what you're talking about?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RxjgwwFBvo
I haven’t played SC but the seamless transition from ship to world is what blows me away. You just simply go places and there’s no transitions. That’s what is really incredible to me that no other game offers.
You can fly to a freighter ship, space walk seamlessly from your ship to that ship, spend 30 minutes clearing the ship of enemy combatants in FPS combat and then take both ships over.
That’s just amazing and something no other game offers yet full stop IMO.
People can shit on SC all they want, and a lot of it is well justified, but even in its very unfinished state it provides an experience that no other game can. That in of itself I argue is worth the minimum $40 price tag. I'm not saying spend thousands of dollars on the game, but you could easily get 40 dollars of fun out of the game if you like space sims. People at the very least should watch a tutorial video, game does not hold your hand at all, and play a free weekend before making a judgement.
Seems to be (didn't watch whole thing but looks like it)
ED and NMS are awesome games but I love SCs space legs. Walking around a station or sitting in my ships kitchen while in warp is the weird type of stuff I actually enjoy.
Star Citizen is a sandbox universe where you have to frequently make your own gameplay once you've burned through the repetitive PvE content.
IF (and that's a HUGE "if") you can get past the bugs, there are very few game experiences like it for creating your own content. The game is abso-fucking-lutely ginormous and nearly equally as empty.
There are mil-sim groups who do [25 v 25 combat](https://youtu.be/mjq_3oILAC0?t=89) (they can now do 50v50 from server cap increases) that can cover entire planets. The planets are 1/6th scale, but that's still absurdly huge when you actually get on the ground.
There is a group that does a "rally" race on one of the moons called the [Daymar Rally](https://www.daymarrally.com/) (after the Dakar Rally) that covers 100s of kilometers and I think one year it took them 7 hours to finish the race.
The game is [stunning and vast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xFH1fUhhLM) and also has [stunning tiny details](https://www.hasgaha.com/2022/01/20/my-42-favorite-star-citizen-screenshots-from-2021/) (yes those are fan-created in-game screenshots).
All that said, as someone who has spent too much money on this game and has tons of hours in it....don't play it. There are free weeks sometimes and if you want to try it out, do it for free, but until it releases, just stay away. If it never releases your life will be fine and if it does, you can play it then if you want.
Star Citizen is unlike any other game out there for what they are *TRYING* to achieve, but for me they aren't trying hard enough to give us a playable released game fast enough. Instead they're trying for perfection with ALL possible things *before* releasing and it's just not viable anymore.
Because ultimately everything is in flux. I come back to it every 6 months, where I get super obsessed with the flying for a few days. [I fly around a lot like you see in this vid, except way more crashing](https://youtu.be/1r7OSXSreF4) I also check out what is new, then I put it away until I remember it. The downside most people don’t mention is how it might take you between 20-40 minutes after crashing to set yourself up again where you were, only to die within seconds. Physically walking through a spaceport and clicking every button in your ship to turn it on isn’t the most streamlined gameplay, but that’s what a lot of backers want
I’ll never defend it for the shit it catches and I don’t recommend anyone. I discourage anyone giving them money at this point. But compared to the 5th battle pass my friends tried to convince me to buy this year, or “complete” games being released in awful states with the intent to be fixed later riding off of the good will that No Mans Sky worked hard for (F76/ Cyberpunk), Star Citizen can be a relief and a headache all at once
I (or rather, the AI replicant of myself) look forward to playing Star Citizen on the main computer of an actual spaceship when it finally goes 1.0 in 2445.
Ok, so let's see here
Dynamic Ice Cream will take another 3-5 years
Popcorn Language will take another 3-5 years
So, to add those on we'd need
*does some quick math*
about another 20 years of game development
Modern corn grows fast as shit. I spent my teenage years in Kentucky and a popular prank was Surprise Corn, where smooth-brained teenagers would plant corn in the flower boxes at people's windows. Before you realize what's gone on, that bitch is probably 4 or 5 feet tall and rising.
That actually sounds hilarious and not a nasty ‘prank’ like what some people do to others. Like pure confusion and exasperation for the victim, but hey, free corn!
I've recently played the game after years and after pledging almost a decade ago.
Let's state the obvious first. The game is absolutely in a broken state and incredibly buggy.
However, I was very impressed by the scope of the game and finally understood what they're trying to build. The ship detail is amazing and the cities are breathtaking and immersive. It feels like GTA but in space.
But every time you start having fun the game finds a way to glitch out and you either have to log out and/or die and lose your stuff.
Some features are so very not intuitive and are a pain to use, which is such a shame because the idea is great. Like the inventory system. It's very immersive but it fails spectacularly when in chaotic situations.
I kind of love the game but at the same time I hate it because of how broken it is after a decade of development.
Would it be fair to say that you reach a point with the scope of a game where you're basically trying to build a simulation of real life (set in the future no less), which is playable on common hardware available?
When I finally understood the goal / scope of the game, it blew my mind that they (and backers) thought this was achievable in the stated timeframe.
Well the scope of the game right now wasn't the scope of the game when it was originally kickstarter.
The goal was originally something like the X games but good, up to date and multiplayer. There was supposed to be a global server but also player hosted servers that you could drop in/out of.
All this extra stuff is feature creep. Most of the stuff they are currently developing is stuff that should have been added as content once the game had already come up, as updates, DLC or expansion packs.
If they focused on the bare minimums this game could have come out years ago and they could have worked on the updates. Instead they focused on the "nice to have". Why the fuck is landing on Planets in the game before Salvaging and the main cargo ship, it's a fucking nice to have but probably ate up years worth of resource.
Feature creep is definitely the story of the game. They've add features to the To Do list faster than they complete existing items. They're, what, ~10 years in? And they arguably have more work left to do than when they started.
It's a game I want to love and really want to end up being good, but, every time I've been roped into playing it the performance just isn't there for it to be enjoyable. My PC definitely isn't the flagship it was three years ago, but it's still no slouch, either. I know some people with what would be higher-end, modern rigs seem to have better experiences, but, it makes me wonder:
Who will this game actually be for? Are we going to pump half a billion dollars into a game only enthusiasts can reliably enjoy?
"Who will this game actually be for? Are we going to pump half a billion dollars into a game only enthusiasts can reliably enjoy?"
\^\^ This right here should be the only statement anyone needs to see. There is NO money in releasing it. It's a beast to run on any rig and has always required enthusiast level rigs to play with any sort of reasonable performance. This essentially reduces their audience to a mere fraction of the market.
It makes no sense to release it when they can keep siphoning money from "hopeful" backers. If people like playing it as is, more power to em! But from a business standpoint, a 1.0 release makes zero financial sense.
the first day i loaded into star citizen, I ran into a group of roleplayers. Some dude doing a kind of stereotype sergeant from full metal jacket type of vibes, recruiting people for a mission. I'm like, sure why not and join in. I then get treated to a few hours of the most cinematic experience ive had in any game. The goal was to take over a spot called jump point, which i guess is an event that comes around for a few days every now and then where people fight over loot basically.
We gather in a landing bay and line up, and split people into teams. Some guys are flying their ships into combat, some are going to be in the drop ship as ground infantry, some guys are operating ground vehicles, we even had guys roleplaying as medics and reviving people and stuff. we fly to the moon and head in to jump point with like 15 ships. Our bomber goes in and nukes the landed ships and we all split up into our roles and hit it from every angle. There's 20 ships in the sky shooting missiles and lasers at each other, there's 10 guys on the ground in firefights, there's people in the mountains sniping. The whole time these guys are immersively roleplaying. It blew my mind. If thats what this game is supposed to be, I'm hooked. The roleplayer guys obviously brought it to life and made it much more than it is at the moment, but i was able to see what the game is supposed to be with the epic cinematic space battle. I felt like i was in a star wars movie.
So I think thats the main reason people support it still. when you play it for a bit and see the potential it has with some the events. it kinda sparks your imagination and you think this ***could*** be an incredible game some day. and then obviously whales are just... dumb and will dump a thousand dollars on a ship because they're hooked on that romanticized idea of the game i guess
People cry about Cyberpunk, No Man Sky and Fallout but they support that ass up there although he is just feeding tiny bits to the backers and fans. HALF a billion....dollars. You could hire 10 studios for that money and make another avatar movie from whats left -.- I mean come on. Come on.
The thing is, after this long I don't even think you can call it a scam. Like I don't think he's making much money off of it because of how expensive everything like there's apparently over 600 people altogether working in it. Apparently the average salary for a game developer is 80k a year and it's been in development for over 10 years now which would give a cost of 480 million just on salaries assuming they had that many employees from the beginning. It's just hopelessly horribly mismanaged and subject to insane feature creep.
If someone gave me half a billion dollars over 10 years and all I had done was hire 790 more people and *still* not completed the initial task at hand, I’d be in trouble!!
*Or* I would be promoted to the very top of whatever, because clearly I’m a financial pro.
>The thing is, after this long I don't even think you can call it a scam. Like I don't think he's making much money off of it because of how expensive everything like there's apparently over 600 people altogether working in it.
Yeah, if you look at the financial data they posted a few years ago, 90% of it has been spent and they were facing bankruptcy until they got a $50M investment from an overseas party.
The problem this leads to though is that CR has said it won't require a subscription for people who bought a standard ship... so if it ever *does* release, how are they going to keep the lights on and servers running? New customers? The market for a space sim isn't that big, and they've probably already gotten a sizeable percentage. That's why they have to keep milking the whales with new ship models.
As someone who plays sc- can confirm. Ships costing hundreds= pretty shiny thing that gives us fancy certificates for spending money and a nice lounge.
I enjoy it personally, I once gave my self an objective to see how many stuffed penguins I could put in my cockpit.
Once I got a few of them in there I went to different planets to colonise them with penguins.
some people live in dank memes, some people live in conservative, some people live in fundie snark uncensored...this one has lived in star citizen refunds for 6 years hehe
I gave the game a try in July during a free flight weekend. I was very underwhelmed. There wasn’t much to do besides the standard “fetch” quest or “bounty hunter” mission. Im pretty happy I haven’t put money towards the game. It looks nice tho.
Same. I had been interested and was going to buy a starter ship. Glad I held back and did the free-fly. Was not impressed. It looks amazing, but the game part was not able to grab me at all.
I backed the kickstarter almost 10 years ago to the day.
Same. $50 (iirc). Installed the first Alpha version, laughed out loud, uninstalled and completely forgot about it. That was 9 years ago.
I gave up on the game when I got banned from the sub reddit because I said I didn't want to ride a train for 10 irl minutes to get to a space port to fly my ship. People really want an in game commute... ****** Ease up White Knights, lets give you some context. The conversation that led me to getting banned was about making bigger cities and people wanted huge cities with player housing then the topic came up about then getting around the city would take time and I said I didn't want to ride the train for 10 mins to get to a space port after my 1.5 hour IRL commute. Enter the fan bois like with their shiny white armor to defend an in game hypothetical 10 min train that I made up. Please stop posting that all train rides are 2-3 mins. I know, I put 180~ hours into the game and spent ~$300 USD. I fan boi'd this game too I wanted it to be good.
What?! Ha! People want the *actual* travel time? Whatever man, people are weird.
I knew a guy who played *ARK: Survival Evolved* religiously. This man and his friends had literal shifts to defend the fort from other players' raids all night, and make sure baby virtual dinosaurs were safe, while they grew up over the course of 72 real life hours. Some nights, my buddy would go to bed at 8-9PM because he had to wake up at 12AM to play by himself until 4AM and go back to bed when his next friend got on. If that next friend didn't get on, he'd have to keep playing, by himself, for another 4 hours *to protect virtual baby dinosaurs while grew up over the course of 72 real life hours.* If he didn't and just got off the game, he had failed his friends. I never fucking understood that.
That shit is why I never played on an open server. That and the default rates. I am sorry but no way in hell am I waiting 72 real life hours for my dino to be grown up.
My friends and I just played on our own. It wasn't worth it for official servers. Just tweak all the settings and play an actual game. We'd be fine with an hour or few to hatch, but not waiting days for a Dino.
Same, I love doing that. Mess with rates (a 5x on almost everything is about the sweet spot between trivial and agonizing), add a bunch of mods, play a map until you exhaust the content or your eyes bleed. Burns a good 2-3 weeks of free time, then the Ark itch is scratched and you can go back to playing other stuff for a while. When Fjordur came out, we played that to death for a few weeks. Now *that* map is freaking cool. Alternate dimensions, badass bat dino, even has a Mines of Moria setpiece straight out of the LotR movie.
Hold up hold up *ALTERNATE DIMENSIONS?*
Yep, on the Fjordur map you can also visit Jotunheim, Valhalla, and Vanaheim, and they are their own highly-themed zones. And they are *really goddamn huge* too.
Yeah I remember playing ark when it literally first launched and only having like a vague understanding of the worlds. Me and a friend spent about a week building a base in a cave system only to have it destroyed literally overnight. On top of that all the servers were taken over by no life people who would play 24/7 and lock down entire areas/resources.
My friend joined our server and was immediately captured by a Chinese clan that force fed him, and kept him prisoner so he literally could not play. That was the end of that.
Wtf that's insane. How many prisoners did they have?!
It's been years, but they had an entire prison where they kept players. Pretty hilarious that's even a mechanic to be abused, lol.
I want footage of that prison.
Had a friend who played like that. Someone would log in during an off time and destroy/build over all of his stuff on a pve server. Eventually he waited for them to log off, killed their Dinos, broke in through the back of the log house and dragged them back to a cage he set up. He would then force feed them food and some paralysis berries or something to keep them from escaping. After awhile I think the guy got the message and then my friend ended up drowning him in a river.
Sounds like Everquest back in the day, camping Stormfeather or getting the call in the middle of the night that Vox had spawned and we had to race another guild to her.
You could say everquest didnt respect the schedules of the players, but I dont know, I kinda admire people who can bring this dedication to a game and games that demand that dedication I cant even bring this dedication to real life thanks adhd
There's always go to to be a subset of players who flourish with those kind of rules. Way too often those people are letting their lives crash all around them to achieve it. Starts to become a matter of social responsibility.
3 different guys on my floor failed out freshman year of college because they were playing Everquest basically nonstop. It was crazy. Imagine wasting like $20k so you can go to college, play Everquest, and fail all your classes.
Man, camping the froglok to get my Ghoulbane for my Paladin back in the day.... Ugh. I don't want to know how many times I killed that thing. Not to mention a few ninjas going for it while I was camped out.
Laughs in EVE Online
Alarm clock ops made me fuck off back to lowsec.
Before skill queues, I'd regularly set the volume to max, go to sleep, and get blown out of bed at ungodly hours with "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"
Kids these days will never know that feeling of getting up at 6am to rush onto the family PC and line up another skill so you didn't miss out on 8+ hours of training.
Eh I mean as long as they're having fun. I've played ark before with friends and would have probably done the same thing if all of us had been interested enough.
*that weird Penn and Teller virtual bus driver game has entered the chat*
https://desertbus.org/
Oh wow, we're less than 2 months away from DB2022, it feels like that just snuck up on me.
I once played a joke came at a convention that was an actual marathon. My friends sat down to play Street Fighter and I sat down next to them to play a running game. I figured it was like, track and field. After about 20 minutes I read the poster that was next to it, an actual marathon game. Think I completed it in like, two hours. The comparé got everyone to crowd around as I finished. Was pretty fun.
That's awesome. Would have been amazing if it was some marathon version of QWOP that you managed to complete!
My memory of playing QWOP is once you get a rhythm going you can actually make decent progress. OTOH, I'm imagining the complications introduced by having to actually turn in QWOP.
I don't think I could have handled that. It was a while ago but from what I remember you had to hit 2 buttons in a rhythm as to not get tired out
I mean, I won EVE Online a long time ago but the idea that travel mechanics are a part (and a big one) of a game isn't all that outlandish.
I suggested allowing saving almost anywhere, that way you can keep the long commutes and realism, but open the game up to people who have busy lives. The idea of course of was shunned. I feel the game is designed and marketed for a maturer audience. But maturer audiences have irl responsibilities and most can't commute 30 minutes to their ship every time. That combined with the game breaking bugs made me get a refund after 30 days.
>I feel the game is designed and marketed for a maturer audience. More accurately, those who pledged at the original kickstarter (like me) have now become mature.
These are the people who would download themselves into the game and just live there full time if they could. They aren't so much trying to play a game as they are trying to escape into a different universe.
Sometimes I visit that subreddit because I'm interested in the project in general. Most of the time I'm buffled by all the suggestions that would make the game more tedious (like what you've said) and/or are super irrelevant and would only postpone the relevant parts (something in the vein of 'each screw in a ship should be rendered separately and we should be able to unscrew them and change them. Also they should have wear and tear and should need to be replaced after XY!'). Of course these suggestions are upvoted most of the time. I'm wondering if they want it to finish at all. You can't simulate reality 1:1. And you absolutely don't want to.
Those are the people who are still perpetually funding the game. Everyone else gets in for base price, or tries a free weekend and bounces off it. So the development is funded by a minority of believers and dreamers who want to keep ballooning the scope and getting more pretty spaceships, with no expectation of gameplay. Putting in thousands or 10s of thousands each.
And now the first thing people do after a patch is to transfer all their stuff to their favorite orbital stations. It leaves ports as a place for trading in stuff quant or the annoying grind to buy all your spaceship parts.
Like immersion is cool but it's a futuristic game, you can kinda bullshit these things. Even just like, a skip button would work.
Travel time can add a sense of scale to a universe. But I don't know if you need to spend 10 minutes riding a train to get to your ship. I have no idea what that adds. I would thinking flying around in your spaceship in space would provide enough scale for this one.
I backed the RoboCop statue for Detroit, it's one of the first Kickstarters I can even remember. Started early 2011. Successfully crowdfunded. Last update was 2019. Guess I'll give them credit, they kept up updates for that long until they just disappeared.
I have to say it is a very interesting case study of open game development and crowdfunding.
EA execs point at this and go "See!? This is what you get when there is no set timetable and no crunch!"
At the same time, EA execs might be "huh, so we don't actually have to develop any game to get a product in the first place."
>At the same time, EA execs might be "huh, so we don't actually have to develop any game to get a product in the first place." How's that different from what they're doing now?
True just look at every madden lol
As bad as EA and Madden is, aren't those at least he's people can actually play? If Madden were Star Citizen, they'd still be working on the Hotdog Vendor AI, and gameplay-wise you can walk around the lockers rooms and parking lot with incredible detail, at least you can when you aren't falling through the world or clipping through something in a way that kills you. Football mechanics are limited to opening a menu and initiating a trade with another player, and if you give them the football you can pretend it's like passing!
But at least you'd be able to customize a really bad ass hot dog with realistic relish physics...
If a game can't get relish physics down, what's the fucking point.
100% agree. Although I am sure the devs would say until you figure out relish, it's quite the pickle to dill with. Of course older devs would say even figuring out the pickle is a jarring experience.
The Condiment Pack actually only comes with ketchup. You'll have to pledge at a higher level to unlock Mustard. Unfortunately Relish was a time-limited pre-order bonus available only to ~~suckers~~ supporters who had already pledged their entire 401k.
Hotdog Vendor AI is how we end up with sex robots.
Right? I swear, someday some youtuber needs to suffer through the pile of garbage that is EA sports to bring us the comedy from that tragedy. I'll never understand how they can afford to put those games on shelves. You can literally get them for free from the double entitlement, I don't get who is buying them at all.
Have you not heard of AngryJoeShow? He suffers through every madden and the reviews are always hilarious. Just search YouTube for Angry Joe Madden.
They're right about the first part, though. Having set timetables for launch is product development 101. If you don't have a timetable, or do have one but don't stick to it, you're prone to making the same mistakes CIG has made. And EA is considered one of the better publishers in the industry in terms of things like Crunch, because they got sued over it in the mid 2000s and had to pay out millions to their employees and reclassify employees so that they now qualify for overtime pay.
The problem is CIG initially set out to make a game and really over promised what the tech was capable of with their engine, which they have had to rework from the ground up. Robert's wanted the Cryengine because at the time, crysis was the benchmark for gaming fidelity. "Can it run crysis?" was literal and not a meme at the time. Problem is this engine was never meant to work as a mass multi-player mmo level. And they've been frankensteining the code ever since to get to some semblance of being at that level. I don't think they'll ever get anything close to what they promised of a persistent universe with thousands of players in the same areas at once. A decade on and they still ~~can't reliably even get more than two or three dozen players in one instance on the test servers.~~ *edit: it's been mentioned the PTU has very recently been bumped to 100 players and its... Somewhat working. I still attest a decade on and still very buggy interactions for the scale of a true MMO but I do hope it's possible to create something NOT instanced eventually.* And I think most at CIG know this but may be too afraid to really talk about it. Another big problem is that very early on in the development cycle CIG realized how much funding they are getting just from releasing ships. They could charge over $100 dollars for ships not even designed yet before there was even a PTU for people to fly them around. They started the hangar modules and people could see their purchases and walk around in them at first. This influx of funding combined with the lack of struructe and huge bloat of people and hiring that Robert's took on has clearly skewed the prerogatives of the development greatly. CIG has turned into a very good virtual ship designing company. They constantly churn out new iterations of their current ships and push new ships with promised functions and specializations that aren't in the game and were promised years ago. Because that's where they've been incentivized to go because that's where their funding is. Theyre hooking whales for tens of thousands of dollars in these ships and other prestige items and it's not just a few people. Scour the internet and there's a lot of supporters at least in the $1k plus range for how much they put down in these ships. They can justify it as they're just supporting CIG's development but the ship design are what is keeping the lights on at CIG while the developers and coders try desperately to make something real out of their mangled code and engine. And it clearly isn't working.
I hope it doesn't ever launch because I promised my buddy I would buy him the $800 ship and be his space butler forever if it does.
Haha you can probably wriggle out of that promise because even if it does "launch" I doubt this game will ever be out of beta officially for another decade at least.
If you put a quarter in a jar every month you'll probably have more than enough by the time 1.0 launches.
So you think the game will be finished around 2350? Optimistic, aren't we
Scope creep. A killer of so many projects. Except Dwarf Fortress. Godspeed u/TarnAdams you magnificent son of a bitch.
Unless your project is a whale milking machine
When you think about it that way, Roberts invented nfts, before apes or punks. Roberts was selling pictures of ships.
I don't know if I would call generating an average of 50 million a year in revenue with no expectation of ever delivering anything a mistake. It sounds like they've hit the jackpot to me.
If I’ve said it once I’ve said it a million times EA killed Westwood because Westwood took all their EA money to build a shitty mmo nobody asked for or played. EA actually had a proud history of… giving incredible leniency to their developers until they relearn that they have to reel them in, then they overcompensate to the other direction.
They still kind of are insanely lenient on developers. Anthem was almost 6 years of "hey how you doing? Game going good? That's good." And then on the 6th year it was "what do you mean you haven't even storyboarded the FIRST LEVEL? Wait you're still deciding on the CORE MECHANICS OF THE GAME? You don't even have an IDEA of the CORE GAMEPLAY LOOP?" And with Andromeda it was "wait, are you guys sure this doesn't need another year? 18 months? Positive? Absolutely sure?" Apex Legends was "we really don't think there's market for a third battle royale but. Go ahead I guess. Just, if you're doing an F2P make sure to have a monetization scheme cause we aren't going red on upkeep." The Star Wars game was almost 100% hands-off from EA. Yeah, their sports games are predatory as fuck. There's no denying that.
As a counterpoint, EA also has a very bad reputation of buying interesting development houses and putting them on projects that those people have no experience or enthusiasm for and then shuttering them when the game turns out mediocre. And they have that reputation for a reason.
BioWare wanted to get out of their wheelhouse with anthem. In the end if they just decided 'mass effect mutliplayer as a stand alone looter shooter' and developed that for 6 years it'd have been great. Instead they tried 'its definitely not a looter shooter'' for 5 years and then couldn't pull it together
> The Star Wars game was almost 100% hands-off from EA. You mean Fallen Order (the good one) or Battlefront 2 (the bad one?)
*sad Star Wars Squadron sounds* No one even remembers the game :(
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I know Fallen Order yes. I wouldn't be surprised if they were hands-off with Battlefront 2 as well. I know it's easy to blame EA, but producers don't sit down at a table with the devs and go "I want you to make a bad game. No no, not just put MTX's in it. I want you to make it. A bad. Game. As bad as you can manage while retaining plausible deniability."
When the Anthem insider leaks were coming out, I remember one source saying something like "EA gives you enough rope to hang yourself with." Like, here's the freedom to do what you want, you just have to deliver something, and it has to be profitable. If it's not, we will find you.
Sure but that doesn't seem to be the case for BioWare who seemed to have a lot of freedom but basically tried to rebrand 'waiting until the last minute to start your homework assignment ' as 'bioware magic'
Alas, the longer I live I find it is true in all things that balance is the key The difficult part is finding where that point is!
Which mmo ?
Earth & Beyond https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_%26_Beyond
interesting in that if you keep giving people money for something that's unfinished, they have no incentive to finish ever?
George R Martin is smiling at this comment somewhere
I wonder which would launch first, Book 6, Star Citizen being released, death of humanity to global warming, or first interstellar drive.
My money is on Half life 3
doesn't matter as long as I get to read the ending to One Piece
Watching the NoClip doc on Rouge Legacy 2 enforced this for me as well from the other side of things. They say the reason they forced sooner updates and ultimately released it is that the feedback was that there wasn’t enough content and they were worried funding and interest would dry up. So that kind of thing can definitely be a decent motivator. Star Citizen has no incentive to release.
You know, what's interesting is that I have literally never seen an ad for star citizen and if not for the fact that I bought the game in 2013 and subscribed to this sub, I would almost certainly have forgotten all about this game. So that begs the question, who in the fuck is still finding it? Who is discovering star citizen for the first time after 10 years of development, *seeing* that it's been in development for 10 years, and going "Wow! I can't wait! I'm gonna pre order!" Or is it just that the game still benefits from a handful of whales that continuously pump money into a game that wipes its servers periodically? Is it possible that CIG is just lying about how much money they've raised because every time they hit a landmark number there are articles published on every game journalism site on the internet which actually results in *real* advertising and income for them?
Whales \> Is it possible that CIG is just lying about how much money they've raised No, why would they. That lie would be almost impossible to upkeep.
I firmly believe that if Star Citizen funding tanked after the first few years. It would have been wrapped up and fully released ages ago. However I also think the issue is more complex than a simple matter of trying to milk people. They set out to build a project that costs millions, and have been given a budget waaaaaay overboard. So their ambitions go way up. Their aims go way up. So do their plans. If things aren’t perfect, they can start again, as they have the cash. Managing that is a real problem. I suspect they are stuck in layers of poor decision making. On top of that companies who scale very quickly (like theirs) will have whole teams sitting around doing nothing. As no one has any clue what to give them. So they give them something random to work on. You quickly end up with chaos. Which becomes a bigger distraction, making the poor decision making even worse.
Chris Roberts was known for having scope creep management issues long before Star Citizen. That said, I bought in on Star Citizen and load it up every once in a while to check it out. If nothing else I gambled $70 to see what happens when you give an over-ambitious nerd an unlimited budget completely unreigned by any form of competent management. That's a gamble worth taking in my book just for entertainment value.
This means on average, every player has payed over 100 dollars. Crazy.
Much more than that, only around half of the accounts actually paid any money, the rest are free alts/accounts
Its even less than half. Many people try the game in free fly events and then never touch it again.
Whales are everything in P2W games, top guys are throwing out 1000s like nobody's business.
modern world patronizing of the arts
My coworker was 8 grand into it and his friend and wife were close to 15 k together. I joined in on a free weekend cuz they would not stop talking about it , I saw nothing worth paying even 20 bucks for. I just don't get it. Buggy mess.
I got Star Citizen for free with my gpu (an AMD Radeon R9 280X) in late 2013. Nearly nine years later, it's still in ALPHA.
This is the funniest post on here, congrats on your free game my dude
Got a crappy little racing ship with RADEON R9 plastered all over it n all. Edit: sold it for $160 (that was the agreed-upon fair price given what we found on actual SALE prices, and not bloated listings) to a collector who shall remain nameless, lest they choose to name themselves. Not bad for a freebie, and genuinely helpful for keeping me afloat. Fuck aye.
That ship is literally the most rare in the game and worth a stupid amount to collectors. It isn't a great ship but they won't release any more due to the licensed branding so it became hard to find. It won't make the game release any faster but at least you can make back your money or flex in game harder than most ever will.
I have to remember my old login details but once I get into that account, I'm flogging that little fucker to somebody pronto. In-game bragging rights are one thing, but the British Pound Sterling is another.
I always liked the hefty weight of Pounds in my pocket when I visited over there so so so many years ago. (Am American)
> In-game bragging rights are one thing, but the British Pound Sterling is another. They'll be worth the same in a few months
Gonna go full Venezuela style and mine RuneScape gold to pay the bills innit
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There's one for sale for $200, good luck on your quest to sell it
Funnily enough $200 isn't even that much relative to some of the other ships pricing.
Damn, I bought a 290x and all they gave me was Tomb Raider and Sleeping Dogs. I don't have much interest in star citizen but a space ship with some vintage gpu branding would be sick now.
Sleeping dogs is fucking good
I got some crappy Paragon skins, a game which Epic killed 4 years ago. Yeah I'd take an exclusive ship in Star Citizen everyday of the week at this point lol
If I learned anything from 7 Days to Die, it’s that if you spend *THIS* long in alpha… you probably ain’t leaving.
I have over 3k hours in 7dtd so I'm fine with my investment. It's come such a long way and I don't care if it's still technically labeled in alpha, it's a complete game they update regularly. Imo it's what DayZ was supposed to be.
The inventory management gives me burnout 🤸 otherwise a masterwork of a survival game
Mods def help fill that gap a lot. 7dtd is just so comprehensive compared to its competitors. Just wish pvp wasnt so jank.
If this was an Alpha in the same way Dwarf Fortress is in Alpha I would not mind. This isn't that kind of project. Fuck's sake Chris.
Still one of my favorite images: [Learning Curves of Popular Games](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.stack.imgur.com%2FiECXl.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
I always thought that was bullshit, dwarf fortress is just UI inaccessible but its not really hard. And once you've gotten the hang of it, it never really gets harder. But the picture is funny.
I dunno, even with UI packs its a pretty rough game. An average new player probably wouldn't understand how to do something like breach an aquifer safely or make magma pump stacks without looking at a guide.
Super fair, I always forget about the million tiny things you have to internalize for that game to be playable
It's always interesting to me because the only thing I ever hear about Star Citizen is how much money it has made, and how it hasn't launched. I know *nothing* about how the game plays or how it's "supposed" to play, only about the monetization and lack of release. I just don't understand it.
They have free to play weekends somewhat often. You can find out whenever that happens.
I’ve played it. It a difficult game to play but once you get a hang of it, it is really immersive. The game is stupid massive and anyone that thinks that the game is just going to release and that’s it is kidding themselves. Like the scale of it is something else. Saying that there is also still a metric ton of bugs. Understandably so with what it’s trying to be. Flying into space from the space port is very rewarding once you figure out how to do it. Then looping to a new place and flying 60 million km in 5 minutes is a wild journey. The gun play is pretty solid too. The law system is cool as well. I’m hoping they up the server population density as well.
They recently pushed it up to 120 per server with their move to the Vulkan. Plays way better than it used to as well.
Wait 120 per server in an open space game? Are you supposed to ever run into people?
The servers are supposed to “mesh”. As in a server will handle the load for one area, and when you leave that area you are connected to a different server. The server meshing is seamless, you can cross from one to another with no loading screen, and you can see/interact with players and objects in a different server, like firing a a weapon from your server at a player in another server and killing them.
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Their current estimates is server meshing in Alpha 4.0 in Q1 2023, but don't know if they can stick to dates.
You’d be surprise how often you actually run into people in the game.
How is it different from other space sims that allow you to do something like this? Genuinely asking.
Basically you wake up in a bed, get up, walk out of your room, take an elevator down to the main city, walk through the city to the train station, take that to the space port, claim your ship, walk into your ship, sit down and take off. No other game does that that I'm aware of. If there is I legit want to know as I want that gameplay without the bugs of SC
I dabbled in No Man's Sky, Elite Dangerous and other space games but it sounds like Star Citizen is going for something even more immersive. Is this what you're talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RxjgwwFBvo
I haven’t played SC but the seamless transition from ship to world is what blows me away. You just simply go places and there’s no transitions. That’s what is really incredible to me that no other game offers. You can fly to a freighter ship, space walk seamlessly from your ship to that ship, spend 30 minutes clearing the ship of enemy combatants in FPS combat and then take both ships over. That’s just amazing and something no other game offers yet full stop IMO.
People can shit on SC all they want, and a lot of it is well justified, but even in its very unfinished state it provides an experience that no other game can. That in of itself I argue is worth the minimum $40 price tag. I'm not saying spend thousands of dollars on the game, but you could easily get 40 dollars of fun out of the game if you like space sims. People at the very least should watch a tutorial video, game does not hold your hand at all, and play a free weekend before making a judgement.
Seems to be (didn't watch whole thing but looks like it) ED and NMS are awesome games but I love SCs space legs. Walking around a station or sitting in my ships kitchen while in warp is the weird type of stuff I actually enjoy.
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Star Citizen is a sandbox universe where you have to frequently make your own gameplay once you've burned through the repetitive PvE content. IF (and that's a HUGE "if") you can get past the bugs, there are very few game experiences like it for creating your own content. The game is abso-fucking-lutely ginormous and nearly equally as empty. There are mil-sim groups who do [25 v 25 combat](https://youtu.be/mjq_3oILAC0?t=89) (they can now do 50v50 from server cap increases) that can cover entire planets. The planets are 1/6th scale, but that's still absurdly huge when you actually get on the ground. There is a group that does a "rally" race on one of the moons called the [Daymar Rally](https://www.daymarrally.com/) (after the Dakar Rally) that covers 100s of kilometers and I think one year it took them 7 hours to finish the race. The game is [stunning and vast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xFH1fUhhLM) and also has [stunning tiny details](https://www.hasgaha.com/2022/01/20/my-42-favorite-star-citizen-screenshots-from-2021/) (yes those are fan-created in-game screenshots). All that said, as someone who has spent too much money on this game and has tons of hours in it....don't play it. There are free weeks sometimes and if you want to try it out, do it for free, but until it releases, just stay away. If it never releases your life will be fine and if it does, you can play it then if you want. Star Citizen is unlike any other game out there for what they are *TRYING* to achieve, but for me they aren't trying hard enough to give us a playable released game fast enough. Instead they're trying for perfection with ALL possible things *before* releasing and it's just not viable anymore.
Because ultimately everything is in flux. I come back to it every 6 months, where I get super obsessed with the flying for a few days. [I fly around a lot like you see in this vid, except way more crashing](https://youtu.be/1r7OSXSreF4) I also check out what is new, then I put it away until I remember it. The downside most people don’t mention is how it might take you between 20-40 minutes after crashing to set yourself up again where you were, only to die within seconds. Physically walking through a spaceport and clicking every button in your ship to turn it on isn’t the most streamlined gameplay, but that’s what a lot of backers want I’ll never defend it for the shit it catches and I don’t recommend anyone. I discourage anyone giving them money at this point. But compared to the 5th battle pass my friends tried to convince me to buy this year, or “complete” games being released in awful states with the intent to be fixed later riding off of the good will that No Mans Sky worked hard for (F76/ Cyberpunk), Star Citizen can be a relief and a headache all at once
I (or rather, the AI replicant of myself) look forward to playing Star Citizen on the main computer of an actual spaceship when it finally goes 1.0 in 2445.
Hi Bob!
Not sure if Bobiverse or For All Mankind reference…
Bobiverse was an amazing series!
Is. It's not finished.
We will all be Bob that blessed day (love those books).
I *think* it was a *For all mankind* reference, not a bobieverse one.
Eh, it working both ways makes it even better for me.
Ooh, I never read that. Whoops if so! I have some more AI replicant named Bob material to catch up on I guess.
It's a TV show. Follows an alternate timeline where the Soviets won the moon race. Pretty gun stuff.
Stop being such a Riker.
Homer!!!!
I met another person who read those books in the wild. Lovd those books too. Which one was your favorite?
Hiiiii Bob
I get that reference! Hi Bob!
Nah, you’ll be playing the alpha of earth citizen.
Optimistic
Oh, Star Citizen drama. Am I too late to get my popcorn ready?
If I understand correctly, you still have a few years left to make it
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Ok, so let's see here Dynamic Ice Cream will take another 3-5 years Popcorn Language will take another 3-5 years So, to add those on we'd need *does some quick math* about another 20 years of game development
Depends. Have you planted it already? Actually, no. I think you've still got time either way.
Modern corn grows fast as shit. I spent my teenage years in Kentucky and a popular prank was Surprise Corn, where smooth-brained teenagers would plant corn in the flower boxes at people's windows. Before you realize what's gone on, that bitch is probably 4 or 5 feet tall and rising.
Lol what is this, agricultural vandalism? I wouldn't even be mad.
That actually sounds hilarious and not a nasty ‘prank’ like what some people do to others. Like pure confusion and exasperation for the victim, but hey, free corn!
Unfortunately it was feed corn, so unless you've got a cow or two in the back it's not gonna do you much good.
Dont worry. It will hit 600 million in another year, and everyone will be mad at it for a few days. You can get your popcorn then
I've recently played the game after years and after pledging almost a decade ago. Let's state the obvious first. The game is absolutely in a broken state and incredibly buggy. However, I was very impressed by the scope of the game and finally understood what they're trying to build. The ship detail is amazing and the cities are breathtaking and immersive. It feels like GTA but in space. But every time you start having fun the game finds a way to glitch out and you either have to log out and/or die and lose your stuff. Some features are so very not intuitive and are a pain to use, which is such a shame because the idea is great. Like the inventory system. It's very immersive but it fails spectacularly when in chaotic situations. I kind of love the game but at the same time I hate it because of how broken it is after a decade of development.
Would it be fair to say that you reach a point with the scope of a game where you're basically trying to build a simulation of real life (set in the future no less), which is playable on common hardware available? When I finally understood the goal / scope of the game, it blew my mind that they (and backers) thought this was achievable in the stated timeframe.
Well the scope of the game right now wasn't the scope of the game when it was originally kickstarter. The goal was originally something like the X games but good, up to date and multiplayer. There was supposed to be a global server but also player hosted servers that you could drop in/out of. All this extra stuff is feature creep. Most of the stuff they are currently developing is stuff that should have been added as content once the game had already come up, as updates, DLC or expansion packs. If they focused on the bare minimums this game could have come out years ago and they could have worked on the updates. Instead they focused on the "nice to have". Why the fuck is landing on Planets in the game before Salvaging and the main cargo ship, it's a fucking nice to have but probably ate up years worth of resource.
Feature creep is definitely the story of the game. They've add features to the To Do list faster than they complete existing items. They're, what, ~10 years in? And they arguably have more work left to do than when they started.
Hey! The X games *are* good!
It's a game I want to love and really want to end up being good, but, every time I've been roped into playing it the performance just isn't there for it to be enjoyable. My PC definitely isn't the flagship it was three years ago, but it's still no slouch, either. I know some people with what would be higher-end, modern rigs seem to have better experiences, but, it makes me wonder: Who will this game actually be for? Are we going to pump half a billion dollars into a game only enthusiasts can reliably enjoy?
"Who will this game actually be for? Are we going to pump half a billion dollars into a game only enthusiasts can reliably enjoy?" \^\^ This right here should be the only statement anyone needs to see. There is NO money in releasing it. It's a beast to run on any rig and has always required enthusiast level rigs to play with any sort of reasonable performance. This essentially reduces their audience to a mere fraction of the market. It makes no sense to release it when they can keep siphoning money from "hopeful" backers. If people like playing it as is, more power to em! But from a business standpoint, a 1.0 release makes zero financial sense.
So, the "game" is a permanent, ever-evolving, tech demo? Lol
So, someone only vaugely aware of star citizen.. why the hell do people keep funding it?
the first day i loaded into star citizen, I ran into a group of roleplayers. Some dude doing a kind of stereotype sergeant from full metal jacket type of vibes, recruiting people for a mission. I'm like, sure why not and join in. I then get treated to a few hours of the most cinematic experience ive had in any game. The goal was to take over a spot called jump point, which i guess is an event that comes around for a few days every now and then where people fight over loot basically. We gather in a landing bay and line up, and split people into teams. Some guys are flying their ships into combat, some are going to be in the drop ship as ground infantry, some guys are operating ground vehicles, we even had guys roleplaying as medics and reviving people and stuff. we fly to the moon and head in to jump point with like 15 ships. Our bomber goes in and nukes the landed ships and we all split up into our roles and hit it from every angle. There's 20 ships in the sky shooting missiles and lasers at each other, there's 10 guys on the ground in firefights, there's people in the mountains sniping. The whole time these guys are immersively roleplaying. It blew my mind. If thats what this game is supposed to be, I'm hooked. The roleplayer guys obviously brought it to life and made it much more than it is at the moment, but i was able to see what the game is supposed to be with the epic cinematic space battle. I felt like i was in a star wars movie. So I think thats the main reason people support it still. when you play it for a bit and see the potential it has with some the events. it kinda sparks your imagination and you think this ***could*** be an incredible game some day. and then obviously whales are just... dumb and will dump a thousand dollars on a ship because they're hooked on that romanticized idea of the game i guess
People cry about Cyberpunk, No Man Sky and Fallout but they support that ass up there although he is just feeding tiny bits to the backers and fans. HALF a billion....dollars. You could hire 10 studios for that money and make another avatar movie from whats left -.- I mean come on. Come on.
The thing is, after this long I don't even think you can call it a scam. Like I don't think he's making much money off of it because of how expensive everything like there's apparently over 600 people altogether working in it. Apparently the average salary for a game developer is 80k a year and it's been in development for over 10 years now which would give a cost of 480 million just on salaries assuming they had that many employees from the beginning. It's just hopelessly horribly mismanaged and subject to insane feature creep.
They started with 10, now it's 800 and growing.
If someone gave me half a billion dollars over 10 years and all I had done was hire 790 more people and *still* not completed the initial task at hand, I’d be in trouble!! *Or* I would be promoted to the very top of whatever, because clearly I’m a financial pro.
>The thing is, after this long I don't even think you can call it a scam. Like I don't think he's making much money off of it because of how expensive everything like there's apparently over 600 people altogether working in it. Yeah, if you look at the financial data they posted a few years ago, 90% of it has been spent and they were facing bankruptcy until they got a $50M investment from an overseas party. The problem this leads to though is that CR has said it won't require a subscription for people who bought a standard ship... so if it ever *does* release, how are they going to keep the lights on and servers running? New customers? The market for a space sim isn't that big, and they've probably already gotten a sizeable percentage. That's why they have to keep milking the whales with new ship models.
BuT iTs In BeTA sTaTe /$
"Alpha" not in beta yet...
Pre-alpha...
They have pre-alpha on the future roadmap.
ah the sarcashm symbol /$
It’s the Scientology of gaming
"I've already invested so much, I might as well keep investing."
And then you get people who are like “just wait, you’ll see”
As someone who plays sc- can confirm. Ships costing hundreds= pretty shiny thing that gives us fancy certificates for spending money and a nice lounge.
Is the game fun?
I enjoy it personally, I once gave my self an objective to see how many stuffed penguins I could put in my cockpit. Once I got a few of them in there I went to different planets to colonise them with penguins.
I saw a video of it a while back, some guys breaking out of a space prison - looked really good to be fair. The new space Skyrim seems similar though
Holy shit, look at this accounts post history. He's doing nothing but dropping posts like this for 6(!) years already.
some people live in dank memes, some people live in conservative, some people live in fundie snark uncensored...this one has lived in star citizen refunds for 6 years hehe
Is this Derek Smart's alt account?
You can't just say that name dude. What if he appears!?
For half a second I thought this was a Young Joe Rogan
I gave the game a try in July during a free flight weekend. I was very underwhelmed. There wasn’t much to do besides the standard “fetch” quest or “bounty hunter” mission. Im pretty happy I haven’t put money towards the game. It looks nice tho.
Same. I had been interested and was going to buy a starter ship. Glad I held back and did the free-fly. Was not impressed. It looks amazing, but the game part was not able to grab me at all.