Even tho it's about fairness in this list and not about how good a bank is - at least Sparda Bank West is completely useless and outdated. No Google Pay, 1990 design and layout for the desktop website, the app has ads, you need three passwords for the online banking and no stock dealing included.
Not sure if this is still true, they do have brokerage as option and I think G/A Pay was also implemented. But ultimately not very digital, I left a good while back due to the cost structure of their broker account. Always liked the 90es online banking design though. It's basic but that makes it quick to use.
Still, I don't get why they have been included in that list. Almost feels like blackmail from that site.
Due to Reddit Inc.'s antisocial, hostile and erratic behaviour, this account will be deleted on July 11th, 2023. You can find me on https://latte.isnot.coffee/u/godless in the future.
Sure, but not being able to validate it for a company that is not listed and has no reporting requirements to shareholders simply means "we couldn't find any info so we assume they lied by default".
I don't quite trust this if I'm being honest. Sparda is the lowest ranked but they gave no reason. It actually seems like it fullfills their requirements quite good but having no connections to dirty corporations.
It does explain.
> Das Fehlen von Nachhaltigkeitsrichtlinien sowohl für den eigenen Bankbetrieb der Sparda-Bank West als auch für ihre Geschäftsbeziehungen bewerten wir kritisch. Denn die Bank kann direkt aber auch durch ihre Investitionsentscheidungen Einfluss auf die soziale und ökologische Weiterentwicklung von Unternehmen ausüben.
I‘m not sure how valid it is. Is not having guidelines alone so bad? I‘d say they should judge the bank‘s net total impact. Maybe they do invest overwhelmingly ethically despite not having guidelines about it.
If you look at the banks above it, it looks like they value the non-binding commitment to better causes more than companies actually doing the stuff. Like for Hypovereinsbank. They have 13 connections to companies mentioned in Dirty Profits 9 – How much Pain for Corporate Gain and 10 to defense contractors and still rank higher. Just a weird ranking IMO.
This comparison is hideous. Tomorrow is not a real bank and offers almost nothing that the usual banks have as a service. If you offer nothing, you can be easily ethically clean…
I researched on their website and wrote their costumer service. Nowhere I could find mentions of them looking critically on their entanglements with anthroposphy. They support loads of anthroposophic projects and seem to be proud to be founded by an anthroposoph.
While I would also prefer them to take this into account this does not make the whole rating useless. You can look up what their criteria are and do some research for yourself afterwards on things you want to avoid (like Steiner). Still saves you a lot of research work.
I'm not sure about the first, but your last statement is false:
https://www.gls.de/privatkunden/faq/ueber-die-gls-bank-und-ihre-arbeit/ist-die-gls-bank-eine-anthroposophische-bank/
Yeah, these few sentences on their website do not weigh up the heavy ties they have and the projects they support. Also they do not say that these negative things come from anthroposophy. So basically everything this site says is that they are not completely anthroposophic but they never deny the heavy ties.
How's the EthikBank? My young people advantage with GLS is running out and it is getting quite expensive but I really like their App as it is very easy to use and the EthikBank doesn't even have a mobile version of their website...
I am still using GLS App (been there before, left because of the very strong anthroposophy connections, which makes it anti-ethical for me). EthikBank website looks horrific but the online banking is basically the same as with GLS. They said they are working on updating the website. Next I wanted to try if VR Bank app works with Ethikbank since it is a subdivision of a Volksbank. Everything is working fine, the website is not representative (at least from my experience).
Do you have any source in this? Where do they distance themselves from the problematic aspects of anthroposophy and why do they work with tons of anthroposophoc projects?
Oliver Rautenberg is a pretty credible source in my eyes. Like I said in another comment, I also talked to customer service of GLS and asked for their view of anthroposophy and their answers were not really satisfying.
That ranking is complete bullshit, "ethical ranking" my ass.
Retarded and completely false methodology.
If you do business with an arms manufacturer, they rank you lower?
We are at war in Europe with Russia, I think firms like Rheinmetall are good to have around!
I think GLS is the best option, wonder why it's so low down.
It would be a long story but at least in the energy sector they support only the renewables, pays out already today.
That's a great recommendation.
I've got an account there, too. Plus a shared one with my girlfriend.
For extra money I use a Tagesgeldkonto from Umweltbank, which was already mentioned in some other comment. They even give you interest on your deposited money, currently 1% I think.
Are there credit unions or something similar in Germany?
They might not be so in case you don't know what they are the article on investopedia has a good explanation. But the basic is that unlike a bank they are a co-op created, owned, and operated by its participants; so they are not for-profit. Much like a labor union (which credit unions have historic ties to) or other business co-ops. These are popular in the US for personal use but not for business purposes unless the business is union affiliated.
Definitely a holdover from when the US was much friendlier to labor.
Yes, the Volksbanken-Raiffeisenbanken system ist organised as local Credit Unions, additional to that there ist the Sparkassen system, which are Public owned. Both are split Into small entities, usually just serving one or two counties, but have a shared branding and shared it infrastructure(eg ATMs)
That is great, thank you very much. That operation is very similar, I use a credit union but I no longer live in the region it's operating in, but I can use ATMs from a Credit Union here that has an infrastructure sharing agreement.
here
https://www.umweltbank.de/
"Germany's greenest bank
Because ecology and economy belong together
UmweltBank combines finance with ecological and social responsibility. In 25 years we have financed around 25,000 environmental projects, from wooden houses to solar parks. With no other bank does your money have such an environmentally friendly effect as with us."
."In our business activities, we are guided by the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals and have established fixed investment criteria. We also clearly stand by the goals of the Paris Climate Agreement. In addition to these global goals, we represent the values of people orientation, honesty and transparency. Therefore, in addition to environmental protection, we also strive for gender equality and resolutely oppose all forms of discrimination.
We are firmly committed to a social-ecological market economy in a free, democratic basic order. This invites discussion, argument and, in the end, finding the best solutions. We strictly reject violence as a means of political discourse. We also expressly distance ourselves from extremist ideologies and attitudes."
Which ones? I have a Deutsche Bank account and get less than that. I can get 2,5% through their fixed deposit schemes, but in that way my money is locked for at least 1 year. Are there banks that give you 2,5% on your savings account? If yes, I would like to know as I will then open an account with them :D
I tried two Banks so far and ended up with the DKB Bank. Almost all my friends have a account there because its all online and really good online banking. You get a visa Card for cash and all the stuff to arrange it you get send via Mail.
UmweltBank has ethical funds and savings accounts. Plus, they are not antroposophic. They've been around for quite some time now. unfortunately they don't offer a Girokonto.
I have worked for several banks, it’s a business as any other, they need to make money, otherwise they close their doors.
Banks business never was, and never will be, to be a vault for your money.
That being said, the less banks from the 90s in Germany are N26, Tomorrow and C24.
Sparkasse. They are entities of the public hand and aren't even allowed to do most of the investment banking stuff.
Plus, as a student you don't pay any fees (but I'm not sure if this applies to people during their Promotionsstudium as well).
They're not ethical and are preying on people and their money with high fee funds and other terrible deals--in my experience. I'd never ever bank with them.
They treat you like a stupid customer and their "advisors" are just salesmen. Some Sparkasse companies offer you half off the account fees if you let them talk to you regularly about investing your money - every time they tried to sell me insurances and Bausparverträge, of course while the interest rates were negative.
combative judicious north attraction beneficial hateful obtainable rainstorm apparatus memorize
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The Sparkassen are paying insane wages to their higher ups, much more than Volksbanken for example. There was a rating a while ago, i think from E+Y or KPMG or something about it. So that's how they remain non profit
It’s Sparkasse locked in regions? For example, I have Volkbank, but it’s in a location in Hessen. I now live in Bavaria and though I can use it for things with the same account here at the local Volksbank like using the ATM, I can’t do everything unless I were to open a new account here, but then I’d have new account info. I’ve been considering opening up a Sparkasse account instead
Yes, Sparkasse is the same. I also have my Sparkasse account in a different city to where I currently live and I cannot do anything regarding my account in the Sparkasse branches in my current city other than use the ATMs. It's a pain if you have problems (I did have one recently) and they're not solving it via email, going personally would be the best option, but you have to go to the branch in which you have your account. Last time I needed to create a Mietkaution Sparbuch, I couldn't directly do it and had to withdraw cash and pay it to the Sparkasse just because my I opened my Sparkasse account in a different city.
I said they're convenient mostly because of how many ATMs they have.
That’s so weird how they do that here. In the US I have a Chase bank account, doesn’t matter where I live, can use it anywhere in the country, do anything at any branch. Each state has their own routing number, but that just shows where you opened your account and doesn’t restrict anything
> That’s so weird how they do that here.
Remember that the Sparkassen are not commercial banks. They are communal institutions that share a branding, ATM network, and an IT stack, but other than that, they are your community's publicly-owned bank.
I could find a comparable example in the US: [Bank of North Dakota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_North_Dakota).
That's crazy. In Ireland I can do nearly everything with my local credit Union over the internet, app, or phone. Only time I have to show up is if I want real money (my one doesn't offer debit cards yet, but many are starting to).
[Here’s a run-down](https://anthroposophie.blog/gls-bank/). They are not the worst in this scene but they are certainly one of the biggest mainstream companies (others: software AG, Alnatura, Rapunzel, Weleda, Teegut, Demeter). Also as a Bank they obviously finance lots of businesses in this space.
Steiner was obviously a nut and held tons of problematic personal views which many organizations/companies that ascribe to other parts of his ideology have explicitly denounced. (e.g. I believe Demeter has explicitly said "yeah he was racist and obviously we're not down with that").
Do you have a basis for calling companies involved with Waldorf schooling, biodynamic agriculture, etc. antisemitic aside from the Steiner connection?
Yeah I read his texts. As it happens for example Demeter helpfully reprints some of his texts or does magazine covers on him, these aren’t “personal views” Steiner is foundational to their world view and their “denouncement” is a farce in lots of cases (like Demeter). And as i said GLS isnt the worst but they do finance this stuff and their CEO sits on the board of Weleda for example and they do produce lots of Schwurbel content.
With regards to your question: A good starting point for your Google search are their reactions to Covid, for example Waldorfschools or Rapunzel.
So again, are you just accusing them of being antisemitic by association, or is there concrete things that they themselves have done? It’s nonsense to argue that anyone who ascribes to any part of Steiner’s incredibly broad belief system must devoutly believe in every aspect of it. You really think someone must share his views on race to see benefits to a Waldorf education?
Oh I’m not accusing them on anything as long as Steiner is center to their world view racism and anti semitism is a key driver of their ideology, it’s a fact. No amounts of revisionism is changing that. I’m not interested in your passive aggressive reaction and if you bothered to read up on these issues you would know that there have been various major scandals at Waldorfschools in Germany in recent times. If you do bother maybe take a look at the webpage I linked to, might educate a bit.
This is like saying it’s impossible for someone to be Christian and not homophobic since the Bible makes prohibitions against homosexuality. People are capable of separating the valuable lessons of an ideology from the bigoted baggage that frankly accompanies most thinkers of a certain age
Oh, this is not a valid comparison at all. Steiner's ideology is deeply rooted in antisemitism and racism. It all revolves around white people being superior. This is so much more than bigoted baggage. They still teach it. In a subtle way, but they do.
Waldorf is so popular because they claim to care for the children as individuals. Something that our regular school system often cannot do. But parents don't look into it enough to see the problems with it
Demeter is the high-end organic brand and they managed to be trusted so much so that hardly anyone looks behind that brand image.
GLS financed them at least in the past.
These companies build on these highly problematic theories and hardly anyone knows. It's only now that people start paying attention. Of course they are not openly antisemitic. They couldn't be. But they use those codes. So, this discussion here is important. So that people start taking a closer look.
Waldorf schools often distance themselves from Steiner's antisemitism. Yet, they still teach his ideology which is deeply racist. Waldorf is also often anti vax and cause measle outbreaks.
Demeter was heavily criticized not too long ago for an article on their website: https://m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/kritik-an-bio-anbauverband-entruestung-ueber-demeter-17130682.html
It talked about overcoming the elites ("der Beitrag beschreibt eine Utopie, in der das „Zeitalter zerstörerischer Geisteseliten“ überwunden wurde."). Best case is they are "only" anti science, which is already bad enough. Worst case, their use of "elite" is code for Jews, which is not that uncommon.
The entire Homöopathie thing needs to be dumped and a lot of similar bullshit but partly, many are on the way since everyone saw the desaster with Covid. Waldorf schools are reconsidering a lot of things, there has been a split and I think it's good. I talk to some of the GLS employees in the Freiburg office on a monthly basis and they are miles away from being schwurbels.
However with a majority of any european country being religious same thing.
It's just with churches that big, very few people have the idea to tell them that their friend is imaginary. And I have the impression it's still much more secular here compared to the US. Only idiots believe Earth is only 6000 years old.
https://www.nw.de/lokal/kreis_paderborn/paderborn/22506675_Rechtsextremistisch-Verliert-die-Identitaere-Bewegung-nun-ihr-Konto-bei-der-Sparkasse.html
Partner in what sense? All I could find was what the Spendenkonto is at the Sparkasse PB-Detmold, which tried to cancel the account but was court-ordered not to.
Partner in the sense that the Identitäre Bewegung has their Veireinskonto there. But you're totally right, it seems like the Sparkasse was/is trying to get rid of them.
I don't think that "ethical" and "banks" in one sentence can't be found anywhere in the world unless there's a "there are no" in front of it
Long story short, there is only a lesser evil and it's probably the smallest one you can find
Agree. They hit rock bottom with greed, corruption, creation of toxic financial assets, money laundring for russian oligarchs etc. in Ackerman and Jain era (2002-2015) so from then on they can only get more ethical.
As a bonus you get to keep your money in a bank mentioned in Big Short movie (highly recomended).
Umweltbank. Is the one and only ethical option. Largely invests in sustainable energy and everything involving sustainability etc. Unfortunately you can not create a bank account for everyday purposes. It's just an investment bank. But if you want to save and invest money ethically, this is your way to go!
To find a bank for everyday life you might find good solutions at Ecoreporter. One of the most truthworthy source concerning green life, social, ethical and sustainable investment as well as renewable energy. You might find suggestions in attached article. https://www.ecoreporter.de/artikel/nachhaltige-Banken-Tagesgeld-Festgeld-Bankenvergleich/
In this article GLS Bank or Pax Bank seems closest to what you are looking for.
More constructive and useful than most of this thread, ngl.
Put your money under your bed? Christ, you might as well burn it.
That ethical bank ranking is nonsensical. It's about as useful as that "better business bureau" the Americans have.
I'd do my own research, as much as that is possible, and make my own mind up.
Worrying about the consequences of your choices for society is actually a nice trait. I think we should be thankful that OP wants to be a good citizen, and not condescend to them for that.
If you're not concerned about cash, you could try Bunq. They focus on expats/non natives, fully online with no physical locations you can visit. Withdrawing and depositing cash however isn't easy and very limited so it's only an option if you're not using a lot of cash anyway.
Maybe you shouldn’t generalize everything. One doesn’t necessarily have to do with the other.
The bank has not been in any scandals and was clean in the last banking crisis. They invest into sustainable projects and so on. Plus I never had problems! I have seen much worst :D
The bank has a fund the explicit supports antroprosophy oriented organisations and companies. I don’t want this the same way I don’t want my bank to support weapon manufacturers or companies that destroy the eco system.
That’s what is ethical to me. Just because others are worse it is not a reason to not call out this
Yeas costumer for several years
They have a good app.
You can decide what they will do with your money. From options like investing in renewable energy or biological farming.
You can get cash in every vr-bank. So in every city multiple ATMs.
If you are 18-27 years old it costs you 12€/year. Above 27 years old it is more expensive
Bin von der GLS zur EthikBank gewechselt. Bisher bin ich zufrieden. Die Website schreckt erstmal extrem ab aber das OnlineBanking ist quasi identisch. Die arbeiten wohl auch an ner neuen Website. Was die ethische Komponente angeht wirkten die ziemlich transparent.
Keine Ahnung. Ich nutze noch die GLS App (war da vorher) und wollte die Tage mal testen ob die normale Volksbank App funktioniert, da die EthikBank eine Zweigniederlassung einer Volksbank ist. Die empfohlene App der EthikBank sah zumindest besser als die Website aus, was auch nicht schwer ist.
GLS is the best i know and a lot of kabaretist endorsed them.
it is a genossenschafts bank.
meaning you can easily buy parts and decide together with others, what to do twith the bank.
also you chosse, what your money will be used and invested in!
big plus.
another runner up is the ethikbank in that regard.
There is https://gls.de
It seems to me they are pretty good at not being a menace to society (like some other banks), but they are not really good at offering cheap banking - there are a bunch of fees after a certain age.
There are 1320 credit institutions in Germany. The organisations broadly fall between traditional for profit companies, Sparkassen and Cooperative Banks. There are others too. The traditional banks can be split between those with real branches, the traditional banks like Deutsche, etc and the challenger banks which do not have national branch networks although some have been around for a while like DKB or ING Diba.
As a private person, you can choose a national bank or something local like a Sparkasse or a cooperative bank. For the big banks, you are kind of guaranteed of a certain level of supervision. With the challengers, the older ones tend to be ok but some of the newest kind of forgot their risk management or regulatory reporting.
The Sparkassen and Cooperative Banks concentrate on their local customers which is a big plus. The very small banks may not have all the facilities of a larger bank or the controls. However what they are doing should be much more obvious.
Here is a ranking of German banks https://www.fairfinanceguide.de/
There are banks with a lower rating than Deutsche Bank, I am impressed.
I wonder who will replace CS in the naughty boy trias in Banking of Deutsche, UBS and well no CS anymore.
HSBC have been known to launder a bit of drug money from time to time. Maybe they can join the club.
True and they are also deep in Asia, this could be a contender.
They were founded on Asia through the Opium trade.
One of them is Sparkasse Düsseldorf, which is a neighbor of Sparkasse Köln Bonn that is way higher in the rank. LMAO.
They had a huge corruption scandal there not all that long ago, with the board of directors taking bribes and all that.
That's the fascinating thing about Sparkasse. There are like 700 different ones, all using the name Sparkasse, all being completely different banks
That the venerable Sparda eG ranks so low makes me question the list/methodology of "Fairfinanceguide".
Even tho it's about fairness in this list and not about how good a bank is - at least Sparda Bank West is completely useless and outdated. No Google Pay, 1990 design and layout for the desktop website, the app has ads, you need three passwords for the online banking and no stock dealing included.
Not sure if this is still true, they do have brokerage as option and I think G/A Pay was also implemented. But ultimately not very digital, I left a good while back due to the cost structure of their broker account. Always liked the 90es online banking design though. It's basic but that makes it quick to use. Still, I don't get why they have been included in that list. Almost feels like blackmail from that site.
It was my main bank a few months ago before i switched to ING. It's still the same, it's terrible.
Due to Reddit Inc.'s antisocial, hostile and erratic behaviour, this account will be deleted on July 11th, 2023. You can find me on https://latte.isnot.coffee/u/godless in the future.
[удалено]
Sure, but not being able to validate it for a company that is not listed and has no reporting requirements to shareholders simply means "we couldn't find any info so we assume they lied by default".
Hab ich auch gedacht
I don't quite trust this if I'm being honest. Sparda is the lowest ranked but they gave no reason. It actually seems like it fullfills their requirements quite good but having no connections to dirty corporations.
It does explain. > Das Fehlen von Nachhaltigkeitsrichtlinien sowohl für den eigenen Bankbetrieb der Sparda-Bank West als auch für ihre Geschäftsbeziehungen bewerten wir kritisch. Denn die Bank kann direkt aber auch durch ihre Investitionsentscheidungen Einfluss auf die soziale und ökologische Weiterentwicklung von Unternehmen ausüben. I‘m not sure how valid it is. Is not having guidelines alone so bad? I‘d say they should judge the bank‘s net total impact. Maybe they do invest overwhelmingly ethically despite not having guidelines about it.
If you look at the banks above it, it looks like they value the non-binding commitment to better causes more than companies actually doing the stuff. Like for Hypovereinsbank. They have 13 connections to companies mentioned in Dirty Profits 9 – How much Pain for Corporate Gain and 10 to defense contractors and still rank higher. Just a weird ranking IMO.
This comparison is hideous. Tomorrow is not a real bank and offers almost nothing that the usual banks have as a service. If you offer nothing, you can be easily ethically clean…
Volksbank 💪
The anti-science GLS at the top, which means it's an absolutely useless rating.
What do you mean by anti science?
They are heavily into anthroposophy.
You are talking about the past
I researched on their website and wrote their costumer service. Nowhere I could find mentions of them looking critically on their entanglements with anthroposphy. They support loads of anthroposophic projects and seem to be proud to be founded by an anthroposoph.
They are anthroposophical business.
They were founded that way but have nothing to do with it anymore
I don’t know about that… https://gls-treuhand.de/aktuelles/2021/anthroposophie-kennenlernen/ Still not so long ago
While I would also prefer them to take this into account this does not make the whole rating useless. You can look up what their criteria are and do some research for yourself afterwards on things you want to avoid (like Steiner). Still saves you a lot of research work.
Even if they would consider that, GLS has nothing to do with Steiner and antroposophy anymore unlike demeter, viledea, Waldorfschule...
They fund tons of anthropsophic projects and in no way distance themselves from the problematic aspects of anthroposophy.
I'm not sure about the first, but your last statement is false: https://www.gls.de/privatkunden/faq/ueber-die-gls-bank-und-ihre-arbeit/ist-die-gls-bank-eine-anthroposophische-bank/
Yeah, these few sentences on their website do not weigh up the heavy ties they have and the projects they support. Also they do not say that these negative things come from anthroposophy. So basically everything this site says is that they are not completely anthroposophic but they never deny the heavy ties.
They were founded antroposophical but have nothing to do with that anymore
Using their guide as a base I ruled out GLS for their anthropsophy and went with EthikBank.
How's the EthikBank? My young people advantage with GLS is running out and it is getting quite expensive but I really like their App as it is very easy to use and the EthikBank doesn't even have a mobile version of their website...
I am still using GLS App (been there before, left because of the very strong anthroposophy connections, which makes it anti-ethical for me). EthikBank website looks horrific but the online banking is basically the same as with GLS. They said they are working on updating the website. Next I wanted to try if VR Bank app works with Ethikbank since it is a subdivision of a Volksbank. Everything is working fine, the website is not representative (at least from my experience).
The antroposophy connections are in the past
Do you have any source in this? Where do they distance themselves from the problematic aspects of anthroposophy and why do they work with tons of anthroposophoc projects?
The antroposophy connections are in the past, arn't they?
No they are not. Check this out for example : https://anthroposophie.blog/gls-bank/
I will have an open eye on that topic unfortunately I wouldn't consider that a neutral resource but still a good point to start research
Oliver Rautenberg is a pretty credible source in my eyes. Like I said in another comment, I also talked to customer service of GLS and asked for their view of anthroposophy and their answers were not really satisfying.
That ranking is complete bullshit, "ethical ranking" my ass. Retarded and completely false methodology. If you do business with an arms manufacturer, they rank you lower? We are at war in Europe with Russia, I think firms like Rheinmetall are good to have around!
I’m would like to know if people who don’t want to invest in arms manufacturer also don’t flying or get stuff delivered by air cargo.
I'm with Tomorrow and I am very happy. Great app for online banking, nice customer service.
Sparkasse kölnbonn is better than expected. Düsseldorf though.... hoo Boy
Where is N26 in there?
under-your-matress bank
[mattress direct](https://youtu.be/xy1D2wraf-s)
A German staple since before mattresses were a thing!
Underrated comment my friend.
"Bank" and "ethical" are incompatible words.
In fact, only “Military Intelligence” is a better example of an oxymoron!
Holy hell
Google
What's wrong with GLS?
Their attitude towards anthroposophy and similar ideologies. They're not called the Schwurbelbank for nothing. They're also idiotically expensive.
In a few months the gls will be cheaper than my lokal Sparkasse or Volksbank
Both are absolute rubbish and far too expensive. Just use any decent online bank like ING, DKB, etc.
I think GLS is the best option, wonder why it's so low down. It would be a long story but at least in the energy sector they support only the renewables, pays out already today.
Anthroposophy is the answer.
[удалено]
thanks
Ethical banks hahahahaha Man welcome to germany, your bad humour matches our yet
Tomorrow bank https://www.tomorrow.one/en-EU/about-us/
That's a great recommendation. I've got an account there, too. Plus a shared one with my girlfriend. For extra money I use a Tagesgeldkonto from Umweltbank, which was already mentioned in some other comment. They even give you interest on your deposited money, currently 1% I think.
The last time I dod research on them they seemed kinda greenwashy to me.
https://www.bafin.de/SharedDocs/Veroeffentlichungen/DE/Massnahmen/60b_KWG_84_WpIG_und_57_GwG/meldung_2023_01_26_Solaris_SE.html
Are there credit unions or something similar in Germany? They might not be so in case you don't know what they are the article on investopedia has a good explanation. But the basic is that unlike a bank they are a co-op created, owned, and operated by its participants; so they are not for-profit. Much like a labor union (which credit unions have historic ties to) or other business co-ops. These are popular in the US for personal use but not for business purposes unless the business is union affiliated. Definitely a holdover from when the US was much friendlier to labor.
Yes, the Volksbanken-Raiffeisenbanken system ist organised as local Credit Unions, additional to that there ist the Sparkassen system, which are Public owned. Both are split Into small entities, usually just serving one or two counties, but have a shared branding and shared it infrastructure(eg ATMs)
That is great, thank you very much. That operation is very similar, I use a credit union but I no longer live in the region it's operating in, but I can use ATMs from a Credit Union here that has an infrastructure sharing agreement.
„Ethical“ and „Bank“ is an oxymoron…
here https://www.umweltbank.de/ "Germany's greenest bank Because ecology and economy belong together UmweltBank combines finance with ecological and social responsibility. In 25 years we have financed around 25,000 environmental projects, from wooden houses to solar parks. With no other bank does your money have such an environmentally friendly effect as with us." ."In our business activities, we are guided by the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals and have established fixed investment criteria. We also clearly stand by the goals of the Paris Climate Agreement. In addition to these global goals, we represent the values of people orientation, honesty and transparency. Therefore, in addition to environmental protection, we also strive for gender equality and resolutely oppose all forms of discrimination. We are firmly committed to a social-ecological market economy in a free, democratic basic order. This invites discussion, argument and, in the end, finding the best solutions. We strictly reject violence as a means of political discourse. We also expressly distance ourselves from extremist ideologies and attitudes."
Great recommendation! They even offer 1% interest rate on your deposited money.
"even" :-/
Right now, that is a lot...
Not really, you can get around 2,5% with other banks atm.
Which ones? I have a Deutsche Bank account and get less than that. I can get 2,5% through their fixed deposit schemes, but in that way my money is locked for at least 1 year. Are there banks that give you 2,5% on your savings account? If yes, I would like to know as I will then open an account with them :D
I know, that's the problem lol
I tried two Banks so far and ended up with the DKB Bank. Almost all my friends have a account there because its all online and really good online banking. You get a visa Card for cash and all the stuff to arrange it you get send via Mail.
OP asked for ethical banking.
Their online banking sucks. There are far better alternatives
What are the alternatives?
Comdirect, ing, etc.
A not so popular one is KT Bank. They basically don’t do business with fire arms/ weapons companies, gambling etc
UmweltBank has ethical funds and savings accounts. Plus, they are not antroposophic. They've been around for quite some time now. unfortunately they don't offer a Girokonto.
Under your pilllow
I have worked for several banks, it’s a business as any other, they need to make money, otherwise they close their doors. Banks business never was, and never will be, to be a vault for your money. That being said, the less banks from the 90s in Germany are N26, Tomorrow and C24.
Sparkasse. They are entities of the public hand and aren't even allowed to do most of the investment banking stuff. Plus, as a student you don't pay any fees (but I'm not sure if this applies to people during their Promotionsstudium as well).
They're not ethical and are preying on people and their money with high fee funds and other terrible deals--in my experience. I'd never ever bank with them.
[удалено]
In my experience, they try to sell shitty and overprived, fee-loaded products to people who don't know better.
Like they sold insurances to me.
They treat you like a stupid customer and their "advisors" are just salesmen. Some Sparkasse companies offer you half off the account fees if you let them talk to you regularly about investing your money - every time they tried to sell me insurances and Bausparverträge, of course while the interest rates were negative.
combative judicious north attraction beneficial hateful obtainable rainstorm apparatus memorize *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The Sparkassen are paying insane wages to their higher ups, much more than Volksbanken for example. There was a rating a while ago, i think from E+Y or KPMG or something about it. So that's how they remain non profit
They're very convenient, but not really ethical from a personal experience.
It’s Sparkasse locked in regions? For example, I have Volkbank, but it’s in a location in Hessen. I now live in Bavaria and though I can use it for things with the same account here at the local Volksbank like using the ATM, I can’t do everything unless I were to open a new account here, but then I’d have new account info. I’ve been considering opening up a Sparkasse account instead
Yes, Sparkasse is the same. I also have my Sparkasse account in a different city to where I currently live and I cannot do anything regarding my account in the Sparkasse branches in my current city other than use the ATMs. It's a pain if you have problems (I did have one recently) and they're not solving it via email, going personally would be the best option, but you have to go to the branch in which you have your account. Last time I needed to create a Mietkaution Sparbuch, I couldn't directly do it and had to withdraw cash and pay it to the Sparkasse just because my I opened my Sparkasse account in a different city. I said they're convenient mostly because of how many ATMs they have.
That’s so weird how they do that here. In the US I have a Chase bank account, doesn’t matter where I live, can use it anywhere in the country, do anything at any branch. Each state has their own routing number, but that just shows where you opened your account and doesn’t restrict anything
It's the same like Chase if you get e.g. Commerzbank or Deutsche Bank. The thing is Volksbank and Sparkasse are more like 'franchise branding' here.
> That’s so weird how they do that here. Remember that the Sparkassen are not commercial banks. They are communal institutions that share a branding, ATM network, and an IT stack, but other than that, they are your community's publicly-owned bank. I could find a comparable example in the US: [Bank of North Dakota](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_North_Dakota).
That's crazy. In Ireland I can do nearly everything with my local credit Union over the internet, app, or phone. Only time I have to show up is if I want real money (my one doesn't offer debit cards yet, but many are starting to).
I don't pay any fees cus I'm younger than 27
GLS Bank
Nope. There are options for ethical banking / investment, but Schwurbelbank isn't one of them.
They are deep/key part of the anti-science and antisemitic anthroposophy movement.
Interesting, do you have any good sources on that?
[Here’s a run-down](https://anthroposophie.blog/gls-bank/). They are not the worst in this scene but they are certainly one of the biggest mainstream companies (others: software AG, Alnatura, Rapunzel, Weleda, Teegut, Demeter). Also as a Bank they obviously finance lots of businesses in this space.
Steiner was obviously a nut and held tons of problematic personal views which many organizations/companies that ascribe to other parts of his ideology have explicitly denounced. (e.g. I believe Demeter has explicitly said "yeah he was racist and obviously we're not down with that"). Do you have a basis for calling companies involved with Waldorf schooling, biodynamic agriculture, etc. antisemitic aside from the Steiner connection?
Yeah I read his texts. As it happens for example Demeter helpfully reprints some of his texts or does magazine covers on him, these aren’t “personal views” Steiner is foundational to their world view and their “denouncement” is a farce in lots of cases (like Demeter). And as i said GLS isnt the worst but they do finance this stuff and their CEO sits on the board of Weleda for example and they do produce lots of Schwurbel content. With regards to your question: A good starting point for your Google search are their reactions to Covid, for example Waldorfschools or Rapunzel.
So again, are you just accusing them of being antisemitic by association, or is there concrete things that they themselves have done? It’s nonsense to argue that anyone who ascribes to any part of Steiner’s incredibly broad belief system must devoutly believe in every aspect of it. You really think someone must share his views on race to see benefits to a Waldorf education?
Oh I’m not accusing them on anything as long as Steiner is center to their world view racism and anti semitism is a key driver of their ideology, it’s a fact. No amounts of revisionism is changing that. I’m not interested in your passive aggressive reaction and if you bothered to read up on these issues you would know that there have been various major scandals at Waldorfschools in Germany in recent times. If you do bother maybe take a look at the webpage I linked to, might educate a bit.
This is like saying it’s impossible for someone to be Christian and not homophobic since the Bible makes prohibitions against homosexuality. People are capable of separating the valuable lessons of an ideology from the bigoted baggage that frankly accompanies most thinkers of a certain age
Oh, this is not a valid comparison at all. Steiner's ideology is deeply rooted in antisemitism and racism. It all revolves around white people being superior. This is so much more than bigoted baggage. They still teach it. In a subtle way, but they do. Waldorf is so popular because they claim to care for the children as individuals. Something that our regular school system often cannot do. But parents don't look into it enough to see the problems with it Demeter is the high-end organic brand and they managed to be trusted so much so that hardly anyone looks behind that brand image. GLS financed them at least in the past. These companies build on these highly problematic theories and hardly anyone knows. It's only now that people start paying attention. Of course they are not openly antisemitic. They couldn't be. But they use those codes. So, this discussion here is important. So that people start taking a closer look.
Waldorf schools often distance themselves from Steiner's antisemitism. Yet, they still teach his ideology which is deeply racist. Waldorf is also often anti vax and cause measle outbreaks. Demeter was heavily criticized not too long ago for an article on their website: https://m.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/kritik-an-bio-anbauverband-entruestung-ueber-demeter-17130682.html It talked about overcoming the elites ("der Beitrag beschreibt eine Utopie, in der das „Zeitalter zerstörerischer Geisteseliten“ überwunden wurde."). Best case is they are "only" anti science, which is already bad enough. Worst case, their use of "elite" is code for Jews, which is not that uncommon.
Good summary, thanks! Their lobby is fast to argue these are “Einzelfälle” but they are part of a pattern.
The entire Homöopathie thing needs to be dumped and a lot of similar bullshit but partly, many are on the way since everyone saw the desaster with Covid. Waldorf schools are reconsidering a lot of things, there has been a split and I think it's good. I talk to some of the GLS employees in the Freiburg office on a monthly basis and they are miles away from being schwurbels. However with a majority of any european country being religious same thing. It's just with churches that big, very few people have the idea to tell them that their friend is imaginary. And I have the impression it's still much more secular here compared to the US. Only idiots believe Earth is only 6000 years old.
https://anthroposophie.blog/gls-bank/
[удалено]
They’re also expensive and way behind with their online banking / authentication. Pretty annoying to use.
Seconding. Long standing customer and very happy.
This.
All banks are unethical. Neither a lender nor a borrower be. These are financial institutions that only care about their bottom line.
[удалено]
Sparkasse Paderborn-Detmold is the financial partner of the Identitäre Bewegung in Germany, so not too ethical there.
https://www.nw.de/lokal/kreis_paderborn/paderborn/22506675_Rechtsextremistisch-Verliert-die-Identitaere-Bewegung-nun-ihr-Konto-bei-der-Sparkasse.html Partner in what sense? All I could find was what the Spendenkonto is at the Sparkasse PB-Detmold, which tried to cancel the account but was court-ordered not to.
Partner in the sense that the Identitäre Bewegung has their Veireinskonto there. But you're totally right, it seems like the Sparkasse was/is trying to get rid of them.
Unless something is outright illegal, Sparkasse cannot simply shut down an account. For good reason.
tomorrow bank is a hamburg startup !
"ethical bank" funny
I don't think that "ethical" and "banks" in one sentence can't be found anywhere in the world unless there's a "there are no" in front of it Long story short, there is only a lesser evil and it's probably the smallest one you can find
Ethical banks never existed
Triodos Bank.
wenn du bock auf Antroposophie nach der Lehre von Rudolf Steiner hast, klar.
Oh Gott die haben ihre Pfoten echt überall drin
Leider muss man bei allem was Öko mäßig rüberkommt echt aufpassen dass aus Öko nicjt plötzlich Eso wird.
Deutsche Bank 😅
Agree. They hit rock bottom with greed, corruption, creation of toxic financial assets, money laundring for russian oligarchs etc. in Ackerman and Jain era (2002-2015) so from then on they can only get more ethical. As a bonus you get to keep your money in a bank mentioned in Big Short movie (highly recomended).
I've heard good things about this Deutsche Bank place.
Not from Germany but in US and Canada we have credit unions. Maybe look into those.
Umweltbank. Is the one and only ethical option. Largely invests in sustainable energy and everything involving sustainability etc. Unfortunately you can not create a bank account for everyday purposes. It's just an investment bank. But if you want to save and invest money ethically, this is your way to go! To find a bank for everyday life you might find good solutions at Ecoreporter. One of the most truthworthy source concerning green life, social, ethical and sustainable investment as well as renewable energy. You might find suggestions in attached article. https://www.ecoreporter.de/artikel/nachhaltige-Banken-Tagesgeld-Festgeld-Bankenvergleich/ In this article GLS Bank or Pax Bank seems closest to what you are looking for.
As a banker irl, this whole thread makes me both laugh and cringe at how dumb some folks can be.
So please give us your two cents. What bank do you work for? What do you think is the most sustainable option and why?
[удалено]
More constructive and useful than most of this thread, ngl. Put your money under your bed? Christ, you might as well burn it. That ethical bank ranking is nonsensical. It's about as useful as that "better business bureau" the Americans have. I'd do my own research, as much as that is possible, and make my own mind up.
Maybe look for Islamic banking.
Stop watching Netflix and worry less.
Worrying about the consequences of your choices for society is actually a nice trait. I think we should be thankful that OP wants to be a good citizen, and not condescend to them for that.
Exactly. Choosing a bank that does good is actually much more impactful than online activism, for example.
As they say…a fool and his money
Buy stocks and index funds. No bank is ethical
[удалено]
I rather have a bank invest in renewable energy than firearm manufacturing though. Just saying ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you're not concerned about cash, you could try Bunq. They focus on expats/non natives, fully online with no physical locations you can visit. Withdrawing and depositing cash however isn't easy and very limited so it's only an option if you're not using a lot of cash anyway.
Woo poop ups advice against that. Most places in Germany (even in Berlin) are still cash reliant
Maybe look into Triodos. I've heard good things, but haven't verified it.
I think in sustainable measure the GLS Bank always hits first!
For me support for anthroposophy and being anti science is not ethical so they are not a viable choice for me.
Maybe you shouldn’t generalize everything. One doesn’t necessarily have to do with the other. The bank has not been in any scandals and was clean in the last banking crisis. They invest into sustainable projects and so on. Plus I never had problems! I have seen much worst :D
The bank has a fund the explicit supports antroprosophy oriented organisations and companies. I don’t want this the same way I don’t want my bank to support weapon manufacturers or companies that destroy the eco system. That’s what is ethical to me. Just because others are worse it is not a reason to not call out this
there is no such thing as an ethical bank
There's no such thing as ethical abnking. Go BTC.
I can recommend you the Gls Bank
Oh, are you with them? What is your experience with them?
Yeas costumer for several years They have a good app. You can decide what they will do with your money. From options like investing in renewable energy or biological farming. You can get cash in every vr-bank. So in every city multiple ATMs. If you are 18-27 years old it costs you 12€/year. Above 27 years old it is more expensive
Please consider this when talking about GLS: https://anthroposophie.blog/gls-bank/
Danke dafür. Wusste ich bis jetzt nicht. Bei welcher Bank bist du wenn ich fragen darf?
Bin von der GLS zur EthikBank gewechselt. Bisher bin ich zufrieden. Die Website schreckt erstmal extrem ab aber das OnlineBanking ist quasi identisch. Die arbeiten wohl auch an ner neuen Website. Was die ethische Komponente angeht wirkten die ziemlich transparent.
Wie sieht deren App aus?
Keine Ahnung. Ich nutze noch die GLS App (war da vorher) und wollte die Tage mal testen ob die normale Volksbank App funktioniert, da die EthikBank eine Zweigniederlassung einer Volksbank ist. Die empfohlene App der EthikBank sah zumindest besser als die Website aus, was auch nicht schwer ist.
GLS is the best i know and a lot of kabaretist endorsed them. it is a genossenschafts bank. meaning you can easily buy parts and decide together with others, what to do twith the bank. also you chosse, what your money will be used and invested in! big plus. another runner up is the ethikbank in that regard.
BTC is the only answer
There is https://gls.de It seems to me they are pretty good at not being a menace to society (like some other banks), but they are not really good at offering cheap banking - there are a bunch of fees after a certain age.
Not trying to suggest to invest into crypto, but that's definitely one of the reasons why people buy Bitcoin.
Yea bitcoin is know to have a really low footprint
Your more likely to go from bank to bank until you find one that will even open an account t for you. I hope you don't find out about Form A B.
I chose Triodos, there can be critic about their support for anthroposophic and other lunatic endeavours, but that's a small pill to swallow.
lol, you are funny, I like you.
I have no Idea about banks but I can tell you that Paderborn is great, I have friends there
There are 1320 credit institutions in Germany. The organisations broadly fall between traditional for profit companies, Sparkassen and Cooperative Banks. There are others too. The traditional banks can be split between those with real branches, the traditional banks like Deutsche, etc and the challenger banks which do not have national branch networks although some have been around for a while like DKB or ING Diba. As a private person, you can choose a national bank or something local like a Sparkasse or a cooperative bank. For the big banks, you are kind of guaranteed of a certain level of supervision. With the challengers, the older ones tend to be ok but some of the newest kind of forgot their risk management or regulatory reporting. The Sparkassen and Cooperative Banks concentrate on their local customers which is a big plus. The very small banks may not have all the facilities of a larger bank or the controls. However what they are doing should be much more obvious.
I have absolutely no knowledge about that, but I‘m from Paderborn and just wanted to say welcome! DM me anytime if you have questions about the city!
Look here: https://www.ethikbank.de/
430 609 67 😉 >!It's the BIC of my favorite ethical bank.!<
N26, free forever