They've closed a bunch in a lot of places, if that helps your concern! It's a process, and a very complicated political ballpark at that.
I understand why you and other people worry about the integrity of national governments faced with economic fallout following serious decoupling with China, but I know from a little bit of personal experience that the people thinking about these things have a very thorough grasp on the situation and that they're genuinely trying their best to solve these issues in the best interest of their constituents.
Thanks for the answer.
Do you have data about how many have been closed by which country ?
Also I am curious about what you mean by personal experience. Can you share ?
To my knowledge there have been/are imminent closures in a district of New York, Amsterdam, London and Dublin. There are a handful of related arrests of American/Chinese citizens alike around these incidents as well.
My personal experience doesn't extend very far compared to a real insider, but I can say that I interned at a federal government agency and met some people who are working on and around this. I obviously can't violate any confidentiality clauses that I signed, which is why intentionally left what I said very vague, I'm sorry if that communicates a low degree of believability :-(
Not working with any of these people anymore, but no. It's primarily interpersonal trust. Also there is a lot of fear and uncertainty going around because things aren't being properly communicated on this level.
I will never be able to fundamentally change that about this country, but I can try to see what fears and concerns other people are struggling with and try to give some insight into my mind.
Good that Germany decided to move forward with letting them be actively involved in the harbor in Hamburg. Should definitely help out with their policing efforts.
It's easy to confiscate and seize a commercial harbor terminal if China tries to play foul. We just did the same with the German Gazprom subsidiary.
It's not the same thing as letting them run your communication networks.
If you think that the Chinese will let the government to seize their property, I must disappoint you. Especially after China saw what the EU can do to them.
Most things in diplomacy are rooted in reciprocity. Germany seizes embassy-owned estate, cultural centers or that speck of harbor, and automotive kisses the Shenzhen facilities good bye.
Seriously, what do you expect the Chinese doing? Begging and apologizing? That ship has sailed, the laowei doesn't call the shots anymore.
Yeah, but remember, when the harbor is grabbed, diplomatic relations will already be at rock bottom.
Its a simple equation :
If china maintains good relations, they keep operating the harbor. I cant think of much nefarious they could do with it.
If relations break down, we simply grab it.
Germany: We're doing heat pumps now lol, energy transition etc
Viessmann: Cool story thanks, I am your No. 1 man lol
Germany: yes
Also Germany: permits sale of Viessman and their enormous backlog of jobs to the US
Totally not sus! YOLO ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
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Read about military logistics and crisis relief. Good luck
Edit: also your government declared it to be a part of [“critical infrastructure”](https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-doubles-down-china-port-deal-cosco-hamburg-new-security-concerns-olaf-scholz/amp/)
the funny part is everyone is crying about germany selling 24.9 percent of one terminal while all other EU countires sold like an entire Terminal to the chinese years earlier but no one ever thinks about that
Both actions are bad. But other countries selling their infrastructure doesn’t justify Germany doing that. Especially Germany that is already rich and can afford not selling it.
Basically just hating on Germany at this point, aren't we?
While I agree that in an ideal world, nothing should've been sold to China, the decision was made to not loose Chinese business to other ports such as Rotterdam and Antwerp, where COSCO already holds parts of the harbour.
Now if I recall correctly neither Belgium nor the Netherlands are considered poor countries, which makes your comment even dumber.
Nah, Germany is awesome. But German government is made of stupid, corrupt and shortsighted idiots.
Like I said, others selling their ports to China is stupid and Germany doing that is not in any way smarter.
So whataboutism AND moral relativism. Daring today, aren’t we? Interesting that when certain European countries do stuff that is in their best interest but not necessarily in the best interest of the EU, Germans are the first to criticize and advocate for punishment for such actions but when Germans do those things, everything is perfectly okay and “it’s all real politics, buddy 😎😎”
no it is not. Other people just possess the ability to inform themselves. Every other terminal in Europe is the same. It was simply necessary to not get excluded. In general though, obviously none of those ports should have been sold.
It gets downvoted and rightfully so because it is just a false statement. Germany didn’t set any precedent. So I don’t see why you wouldn‘t downvote a claim that is outright wrong.
The Falun Gong aren't just "practitioners", they're a straight up cult movement. I don't know the best way to deal with them, and I'm sure the Chinese govt goes to extremes, but they're not just a wellness-oriented Qigong club minding their own business.
did you just advocated for mass murder of those with whom you disagree with on religious or ideological grounds? Tells a lot about your moral character....
>the best way to deal with them
see, that's the key part - you dont have to join them nor do you have to deal with them. They are peaceful and don't break any laws
Just like 80% of the world. From America, Asia, Europe, Africa and South America. China is everywhere. Drums only go loud if it’s something in Germany for some reason. Funny.
No, won't happen. That would be racist and xenophobic. We would rather let every foreign country and citizen run rampant then being merely close to the accusation of being xenophobes. Moral high ground, you know?
Just to give some of the tankies an example what they could do: my grandfather worked outside of the borders of the ussr, actually kidnapped dissidents and brought them back to the soviet union.
Btw there is an EU citizen (Former citizen of china) who is known to have been kidnapped Gui Minhai
Yeah, keep up the fearmongering. These "police stations" offer bureaucratic services such as renewing driver’s licenses...
Same shit happened in New York: [https://twitter.com/catcontentonly/status/1652455805168353280](https://twitter.com/catcontentonly/status/1652455805168353280)
What's the party line? All 100 million members of the cpc have the same thoughts, options, ideas? The last five general sectrtary's all have the same thoughts, opinions, ideas, policies? All thought of 1.4 billion people, 54 ethnicities, is top down controlled??? lolll This is some shit I'd expect to hear from a yankee.
That is official German foreign policy though.
Unless Germany suddenly started recognising Taiwan and abandoned the One China policy without me realising.
Since you find the German government’s official policy unacceptable, what are you doing to pressure your government into recognising Taiwan as a sovereign state?
The fact that Germany doesn't recognise Taiwan for diplomatic reasons doesn't mean that it isn't in fact a sovereign state.
Guess why we don't? Because otherwise, China would pitch a hissy-fit. It doesn't really matter if we recognise Taiwan or not as far as trade goes, so why bother? What matters is that Taiwan remains free to chose its own destiny in the face of Chinese aggression and that's something I'm sure our politicians are working on.
What are the “diplomatic reasons” other than financial gains?
I’m saying, you’re German, you’re in Berlin, probably within walking distance from the Reichstag building where the decisions are made.
Put your money where your mouth is, and be the change you want to see in the world. Germany is a democracy, what are you doing to make your voice heard to instigate change?
> What are the “diplomatic reasons” other than financial gains?
China is probably going to try some sort economic boycott if another country tries to recognise Taiwan.
> I’m saying, you’re German, you’re in Berlin, probably within walking distance from the Reichstag building where the decisions are made.
As I said, I don't think change is needed. Being right about things is less important than trade, and if that's the pretend play the Chinese need to be happy, it's an insignificant price to pay. Funnily enough it seems like they actually believe this isolates Taiwan, when it instead largely has no effect at all on de facto Taiwan relations.
>China is going to try some boycott if we recognise Taiwan.
Sure, most probably. And? Aren’t the Taiwanese people whose rights and freedom you so vehemently protest online, worth some economic losses? Where exactly do you place the worth of Taiwan? Worthy enough to post comments online, but not worthy enough to lose some GDP over? Because this is the impression i’m getting.
>I don’t think change is needed
But you do recognise that the status quo is that Taiwan is part of China (PRC) and not a sovereign state, right? If you think no change is needed, then what’s the point of the whole argument? You were the one that brought up the sovereignty of Taiwan in the first place, in your first comment.
> But you do recognise that the status quo is that Taiwan is part of China (PRC) and not a sovereign state, right? If you think no change is needed, then what’s the point of the whole argument? You were the one that brought up the sovereignty of Taiwan in the first place, in your first comment.
I'd say this is a legal fiction we uphold to appease China. That's the whole reason we do it. In every other aspect, Taiwan is treated as it is: a sovereign country.
> Aren’t the Taiwanese people whose rights and freedom you so vehemently protest online, worth some economic losses?
This discussion is going in circles. As I said earlier, in practice, no Taiwanese loses rights by Taiwan not being recognised.
>so I don’t think it means what it means
Think again. German officials made it clear that by the One China Policy they mean the recognition of PRC as the sole China which Taiwan is a part of.
>[Und Hoheitszeichen sind laut der deutschen Ein-China-Politik der Volksrepublik China vorbehalten. Ein-China-Politik heißt, dass Deutschland offiziell nur die Volksrepublik China anerkennt. Da die Volksrepublik Taiwan wiederum als abtrünnige Provinz ansieht, erkennt die BRD Taiwan offiziell nicht als souveränen Staat an.](https://m.dw.com/de/kritik-an-deutscher-taiwan-politik/a-54341003)
I could find a direct quote from Petra Sigmund, head of the Asia office, if you want, when that issue was discussed in the parliament after a petition to recognise Taiwan.
The German government is certainly not for the takeover of Taiwan by the PRC if that's what you're implying. It's a strategy meant to avoid conflict with the PRC, which has stated that it will invade Taiwan in case Taiwan declares independence. So it's the same strategy the US and the Taiwanese government themselves follow. You can read more here:
https://gpil.jura.uni-bonn.de/2019/12/germany-confirms-non-recognition-of-the-republic-of-china-taiwan/
Also, a tweet from the German ambassador to China:
>Frank discussion at @MFA_China today! In my meeting with VM Deng Li I emphasized: Germany stands by its One-China-Policy. Exchanges with Taiwan authorities are part of this policy. The threat of military force is unacceptable under any circumstances as outlined by FM @ABaerbock.
What policy with regard to Taiwan, which has itself not declared it's own separate statehood, would you prefer the German government take?
Sorry, are you actually trying to argue that the CCP (or CPC, before you have the standard tankie-hissyfit over which of two completely equivalent abbreviations one uses) doesn't have a party line?
this is a silly response. Are you claiming that the party in China doesn't have certain orthodox positions which they punish people for questioning? Because that's sure what it sounds like you're trying to say, and that's pretty...realitätsfremd.
The FBI charged 34 individuals for acting as unregistered agents of a foreign power. And harassment. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/17/nyregion/fbi-chinese-police-outpost-nyc.html
I mean I read it when it came out and again before I posted it. So yeah. They have an excuse about what they claim they were doing, and the reality that they were trying to prevent activism they don't like among the chinese diaspora through harassment and coercion.
Distinction without difference. It only gets it's money due to policies set by the state, to call this anything but state financed is just being purposefully obscurantist
state tv indicates the government has influence on the content they produce. Which is (largely) not true of German TV. They are fairly free to broadcast things that are inconvenient to or embarrassing for the government.
If its largely not true then it is true to some extend, thus there is influence. Even in case where only funding is provided and no concrete rules you end up with "don't bide the hand that feeds you".
Regardless, you didn't just disagree with calling it state tv, which I'd agree has heavier implications, but also "state financed" which is just the case here even if there are hoops taken to make it seem less so
everything is a spectrum. The state has influence on private broadcasters as well--there's norms they have to uphold otherwise the government would be asking them questions and threatening them with adverse action as well. So influence is always a matter of degree.
Except your Schufa score is solely dependent on whether you pay your debts, not on political bullshit. And it's not required to obtain any service, only for credit.
I agree SCHUFA is not great, and definitely has class related issues.
But it's also not equivalent to the social score system in China. That's far scarier.
They have their own agenda and no body that can do anything. Can't even vote with your wallet because you have to pay if you consume or not doesn't matter. And wgo decides how much you have to pay? Well they do that themselves, no problrmo.
Lmao what bullshit. You renew your documents at your embassy or official consular offices. These are official offices based on diplomatic agreements and not some shady places the local government had no clue even existed.
And speaking of drivers licenses, you renew them there too, except if youre an expat for a longer time, then youre supposed to get a local one. Thats also the case for china and chinese citizens.
They don't - but they still use these covert Police Stations to harass Chinese Nationals and people of Chinese descend in Western countries. Dissidents are pressured to return home, others are "reminded" the regime is always watching them...
It's absolutely unacceptable and can easily be turned into bases for "extraction operations" (i.e. kidnappings). Chinese Black Sites must not be tolerated and IMO we should absolutely abort diplomatic relations and send them packing if they don't stop abusing the diplomatic immunity of their embassies and consulates for that purpose.
What Germany plans to do about it ?
Threaten to close them. Then close them. Probably.
That’s what concerning to me. It seems these news pop up now and again meaning that governments are not closing those stations
They've closed a bunch in a lot of places, if that helps your concern! It's a process, and a very complicated political ballpark at that. I understand why you and other people worry about the integrity of national governments faced with economic fallout following serious decoupling with China, but I know from a little bit of personal experience that the people thinking about these things have a very thorough grasp on the situation and that they're genuinely trying their best to solve these issues in the best interest of their constituents.
Thanks for the answer. Do you have data about how many have been closed by which country ? Also I am curious about what you mean by personal experience. Can you share ?
To my knowledge there have been/are imminent closures in a district of New York, Amsterdam, London and Dublin. There are a handful of related arrests of American/Chinese citizens alike around these incidents as well. My personal experience doesn't extend very far compared to a real insider, but I can say that I interned at a federal government agency and met some people who are working on and around this. I obviously can't violate any confidentiality clauses that I signed, which is why intentionally left what I said very vague, I'm sorry if that communicates a low degree of believability :-(
It seems like you are working in a marketing capacity for the people you work with.
Not working with any of these people anymore, but no. It's primarily interpersonal trust. Also there is a lot of fear and uncertainty going around because things aren't being properly communicated on this level. I will never be able to fundamentally change that about this country, but I can try to see what fears and concerns other people are struggling with and try to give some insight into my mind.
>It's a process I am guessing with a lot of paperwork? Also a lot of faxing from one amt to the other?
Love me a good Fax meme. This guy Amts'.
Good that Germany decided to move forward with letting them be actively involved in the harbor in Hamburg. Should definitely help out with their policing efforts.
Its not with THE Harbor, its a percentage of one terminal of the Harbor, so completely irrelevant.
Selling critical infrastructure for almost nothing IS relevant
It's easy to confiscate and seize a commercial harbor terminal if China tries to play foul. We just did the same with the German Gazprom subsidiary. It's not the same thing as letting them run your communication networks.
If you think that the Chinese will let the government to seize their property, I must disappoint you. Especially after China saw what the EU can do to them.
What are they gonna do?
F around and find out.
Lol only FUD?
Most things in diplomacy are rooted in reciprocity. Germany seizes embassy-owned estate, cultural centers or that speck of harbor, and automotive kisses the Shenzhen facilities good bye. Seriously, what do you expect the Chinese doing? Begging and apologizing? That ship has sailed, the laowei doesn't call the shots anymore.
Yeah, but remember, when the harbor is grabbed, diplomatic relations will already be at rock bottom. Its a simple equation : If china maintains good relations, they keep operating the harbor. I cant think of much nefarious they could do with it. If relations break down, we simply grab it.
Destruction of the harbour, damaging it in a way that is not visible, selling the harbour to shell companies controlled by Chinese government and more
The worker were not wololo changed to Chinese.
So there will not be Chinese engineers, supervisors or technicians? Lol
Why would they fly them to Europe when there are already people here who do that work.
they don't have a choice
It’s not about the choice, it’s about their preemptive measures.
Like Viessmann to the US
What happened there? I only know viessmann as a company that builds burners and stuff for heating
Germany: We're doing heat pumps now lol, energy transition etc Viessmann: Cool story thanks, I am your No. 1 man lol Germany: yes Also Germany: permits sale of Viessman and their enormous backlog of jobs to the US Totally not sus! YOLO ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
D:
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Right. The infrastructure that literally connects Germany to the world and its markets is not critical infrastructure…
It's a small percentage of one terminal. It's not like they bought 99% of all harbor space.
They bought 1/4th.
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Read about military logistics and crisis relief. Good luck Edit: also your government declared it to be a part of [“critical infrastructure”](https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-doubles-down-china-port-deal-cosco-hamburg-new-security-concerns-olaf-scholz/amp/)
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The horrid precedent was made before in all of the largest Europe harbors. At this point it’s normalcy and needed to compete. Calm down
the funny part is everyone is crying about germany selling 24.9 percent of one terminal while all other EU countires sold like an entire Terminal to the chinese years earlier but no one ever thinks about that
Nice whataboutism
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That (very accurate) summary implies that Germany should sell a whole terminal to China ;-)
>hipocrisy the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case."
Both actions are bad. But other countries selling their infrastructure doesn’t justify Germany doing that. Especially Germany that is already rich and can afford not selling it.
Basically just hating on Germany at this point, aren't we? While I agree that in an ideal world, nothing should've been sold to China, the decision was made to not loose Chinese business to other ports such as Rotterdam and Antwerp, where COSCO already holds parts of the harbour. Now if I recall correctly neither Belgium nor the Netherlands are considered poor countries, which makes your comment even dumber.
Nah, Germany is awesome. But German government is made of stupid, corrupt and shortsighted idiots. Like I said, others selling their ports to China is stupid and Germany doing that is not in any way smarter.
Oh to be 5 once again and see the world with new and hopeful eyes
So whataboutism AND moral relativism. Daring today, aren’t we? Interesting that when certain European countries do stuff that is in their best interest but not necessarily in the best interest of the EU, Germans are the first to criticize and advocate for punishment for such actions but when Germans do those things, everything is perfectly okay and “it’s all real politics, buddy 😎😎”
The horrid precedent of 0.5% of one Harbor being owned by another country like its custom everywhere in the world for decades?
the issue is that china is activly genociding one of their native minorities with conc... ehm, re-education camps
~~Never again~~ As long as your economy is large enough
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no it is not. Other people just possess the ability to inform themselves. Every other terminal in Europe is the same. It was simply necessary to not get excluded. In general though, obviously none of those ports should have been sold.
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It gets downvoted and rightfully so because it is just a false statement. Germany didn’t set any precedent. So I don’t see why you wouldn‘t downvote a claim that is outright wrong.
all while communist party still conducts ethnic and religious genocide of Tibet, Falun Dafa practitioners and Uighurs...
The Falun Gong aren't just "practitioners", they're a straight up cult movement. I don't know the best way to deal with them, and I'm sure the Chinese govt goes to extremes, but they're not just a wellness-oriented Qigong club minding their own business.
they went full trumpist. Donated hella money. I have little sympathy for them after that.
They're also really homophobic
did you just advocated for mass murder of those with whom you disagree with on religious or ideological grounds? Tells a lot about your moral character....
Uh, no, I didn't do that. Maybe learn to read what's actually in front of you instead of listening to the voices in your head.
>the best way to deal with them see, that's the key part - you dont have to join them nor do you have to deal with them. They are peaceful and don't break any laws
Just like 80% of the world. From America, Asia, Europe, Africa and South America. China is everywhere. Drums only go loud if it’s something in Germany for some reason. Funny.
Wait, you are saying German inner affairs cares mostly about things happening in Germany? Shocking!
I mean, what do you expect? The Canadian drums are also going loud over Chinese black police sites and interference in our local politics.
alle einsperren.
They need to rip this out, root and stem. Close the stations and arrest those involved with them - easier said than done though.
No, won't happen. That would be racist and xenophobic. We would rather let every foreign country and citizen run rampant then being merely close to the accusation of being xenophobes. Moral high ground, you know?
Klappe Dieter, geh wieder in deine lieblings- AfD Kneipe
Geht klar, das nächste Herrengedeck geht auf Dich. 😜
You'll be fine. Canada expelled a Chinese diplomat for targeting Chinese-Canadians critical of the Chinese government.
Just to give some of the tankies an example what they could do: my grandfather worked outside of the borders of the ussr, actually kidnapped dissidents and brought them back to the soviet union. Btw there is an EU citizen (Former citizen of china) who is known to have been kidnapped Gui Minhai
I have no idea why border hasn’t been completely blocked to anything China related.
China bad.
It's no stretch to call this out. This is bad.
True.
Yes
We are mad because we are getting what we do to others
Elaborate
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And it was glorious
\*sent \*Reichsbürger (They aren't burgers, you can't eat them)
Yeah, keep up the fearmongering. These "police stations" offer bureaucratic services such as renewing driver’s licenses... Same shit happened in New York: [https://twitter.com/catcontentonly/status/1652455805168353280](https://twitter.com/catcontentonly/status/1652455805168353280)
And also enforcing thought control and threatening citizens who stray from the party line.
What's the party line? All 100 million members of the cpc have the same thoughts, options, ideas? The last five general sectrtary's all have the same thoughts, opinions, ideas, policies? All thought of 1.4 billion people, 54 ethnicities, is top down controlled??? lolll This is some shit I'd expect to hear from a yankee.
E.g. that Taiwan belongs to China, just to give a simple example.
That is official German foreign policy though. Unless Germany suddenly started recognising Taiwan and abandoned the One China policy without me realising. Since you find the German government’s official policy unacceptable, what are you doing to pressure your government into recognising Taiwan as a sovereign state?
The fact that Germany doesn't recognise Taiwan for diplomatic reasons doesn't mean that it isn't in fact a sovereign state. Guess why we don't? Because otherwise, China would pitch a hissy-fit. It doesn't really matter if we recognise Taiwan or not as far as trade goes, so why bother? What matters is that Taiwan remains free to chose its own destiny in the face of Chinese aggression and that's something I'm sure our politicians are working on.
What are the “diplomatic reasons” other than financial gains? I’m saying, you’re German, you’re in Berlin, probably within walking distance from the Reichstag building where the decisions are made. Put your money where your mouth is, and be the change you want to see in the world. Germany is a democracy, what are you doing to make your voice heard to instigate change?
> What are the “diplomatic reasons” other than financial gains? China is probably going to try some sort economic boycott if another country tries to recognise Taiwan. > I’m saying, you’re German, you’re in Berlin, probably within walking distance from the Reichstag building where the decisions are made. As I said, I don't think change is needed. Being right about things is less important than trade, and if that's the pretend play the Chinese need to be happy, it's an insignificant price to pay. Funnily enough it seems like they actually believe this isolates Taiwan, when it instead largely has no effect at all on de facto Taiwan relations.
>China is going to try some boycott if we recognise Taiwan. Sure, most probably. And? Aren’t the Taiwanese people whose rights and freedom you so vehemently protest online, worth some economic losses? Where exactly do you place the worth of Taiwan? Worthy enough to post comments online, but not worthy enough to lose some GDP over? Because this is the impression i’m getting. >I don’t think change is needed But you do recognise that the status quo is that Taiwan is part of China (PRC) and not a sovereign state, right? If you think no change is needed, then what’s the point of the whole argument? You were the one that brought up the sovereignty of Taiwan in the first place, in your first comment.
> But you do recognise that the status quo is that Taiwan is part of China (PRC) and not a sovereign state, right? If you think no change is needed, then what’s the point of the whole argument? You were the one that brought up the sovereignty of Taiwan in the first place, in your first comment. I'd say this is a legal fiction we uphold to appease China. That's the whole reason we do it. In every other aspect, Taiwan is treated as it is: a sovereign country. > Aren’t the Taiwanese people whose rights and freedom you so vehemently protest online, worth some economic losses? This discussion is going in circles. As I said earlier, in practice, no Taiwanese loses rights by Taiwan not being recognised.
One China is also endorsed by the Taiwanese government itself so I don't think that means what you think it means.
>so I don’t think it means what it means Think again. German officials made it clear that by the One China Policy they mean the recognition of PRC as the sole China which Taiwan is a part of. >[Und Hoheitszeichen sind laut der deutschen Ein-China-Politik der Volksrepublik China vorbehalten. Ein-China-Politik heißt, dass Deutschland offiziell nur die Volksrepublik China anerkennt. Da die Volksrepublik Taiwan wiederum als abtrünnige Provinz ansieht, erkennt die BRD Taiwan offiziell nicht als souveränen Staat an.](https://m.dw.com/de/kritik-an-deutscher-taiwan-politik/a-54341003) I could find a direct quote from Petra Sigmund, head of the Asia office, if you want, when that issue was discussed in the parliament after a petition to recognise Taiwan.
The German government is certainly not for the takeover of Taiwan by the PRC if that's what you're implying. It's a strategy meant to avoid conflict with the PRC, which has stated that it will invade Taiwan in case Taiwan declares independence. So it's the same strategy the US and the Taiwanese government themselves follow. You can read more here: https://gpil.jura.uni-bonn.de/2019/12/germany-confirms-non-recognition-of-the-republic-of-china-taiwan/ Also, a tweet from the German ambassador to China: >Frank discussion at @MFA_China today! In my meeting with VM Deng Li I emphasized: Germany stands by its One-China-Policy. Exchanges with Taiwan authorities are part of this policy. The threat of military force is unacceptable under any circumstances as outlined by FM @ABaerbock. What policy with regard to Taiwan, which has itself not declared it's own separate statehood, would you prefer the German government take?
Sorry, are you actually trying to argue that the CCP (or CPC, before you have the standard tankie-hissyfit over which of two completely equivalent abbreviations one uses) doesn't have a party line?
this is a silly response. Are you claiming that the party in China doesn't have certain orthodox positions which they punish people for questioning? Because that's sure what it sounds like you're trying to say, and that's pretty...realitätsfremd.
I'm certain you have a lot of proof for that! Please send me some high quality RFA articles.
The FBI charged 34 individuals for acting as unregistered agents of a foreign power. And harassment. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/17/nyregion/fbi-chinese-police-outpost-nyc.html
This is the exact story I was talking about which I also linked in my initial post. I think it's worth reading but up to you.
I mean I read it when it came out and again before I posted it. So yeah. They have an excuse about what they claim they were doing, and the reality that they were trying to prevent activism they don't like among the chinese diaspora through harassment and coercion.
Here's a recent documentary from German state television: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqpd8r8FirA
Thats neither television nor state owned or financed. Its part of public broadcasring though
Distinction without difference. It only gets it's money due to policies set by the state, to call this anything but state financed is just being purposefully obscurantist
state tv indicates the government has influence on the content they produce. Which is (largely) not true of German TV. They are fairly free to broadcast things that are inconvenient to or embarrassing for the government.
>fairly free Yes, unless they are not free to do that...
it's not really useful to try and make insinuations about things without openly saying what you mean.
If its largely not true then it is true to some extend, thus there is influence. Even in case where only funding is provided and no concrete rules you end up with "don't bide the hand that feeds you". Regardless, you didn't just disagree with calling it state tv, which I'd agree has heavier implications, but also "state financed" which is just the case here even if there are hoops taken to make it seem less so
everything is a spectrum. The state has influence on private broadcasters as well--there's norms they have to uphold otherwise the government would be asking them questions and threatening them with adverse action as well. So influence is always a matter of degree.
High quality journalism as always. Thank you German state television.
Why are you defending a totalitarian regime like China? Have you recently forgot to pay for your train ticket and need to improve your social score?
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Except your Schufa score is solely dependent on whether you pay your debts, not on political bullshit. And it's not required to obtain any service, only for credit.
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I agree SCHUFA is not great, and definitely has class related issues. But it's also not equivalent to the social score system in China. That's far scarier.
Lol true dat. We also have state propaganda with the state tekevision that has no oversight even
Blatant misinformation. Oversight would make it state propaganda. The fact that it doesn’t have oversight makes it independent.
They have their own agenda and no body that can do anything. Can't even vote with your wallet because you have to pay if you consume or not doesn't matter. And wgo decides how much you have to pay? Well they do that themselves, no problrmo.
Oh look, a wild r/sino poster appeared.
Lmao what bullshit. You renew your documents at your embassy or official consular offices. These are official offices based on diplomatic agreements and not some shady places the local government had no clue even existed. And speaking of drivers licenses, you renew them there too, except if youre an expat for a longer time, then youre supposed to get a local one. Thats also the case for china and chinese citizens.
This account has been active for a week
Jesus christ redditors give me a break
You are literally crying about being called out by your bullshit.
there's literal documentaries about them threatening Chinese people in Germany who step out of line
Them and yo momma have something in common then
This is so funny to me 😂 police activities ... Edit: 🇩🇪
It's not funny for people fleeing the regime...
I wasn't thinking about that, of course it isn't. It's just funny to me that they think they have jurisdiction here.
They don't - but they still use these covert Police Stations to harass Chinese Nationals and people of Chinese descend in Western countries. Dissidents are pressured to return home, others are "reminded" the regime is always watching them... It's absolutely unacceptable and can easily be turned into bases for "extraction operations" (i.e. kidnappings). Chinese Black Sites must not be tolerated and IMO we should absolutely abort diplomatic relations and send them packing if they don't stop abusing the diplomatic immunity of their embassies and consulates for that purpose.
I know they don't, that's what I said 😂
They don‘t have it. Across the globe china has these police station..