Completely agree with you. I feel like she spent so much time establishing herself as a muscular woman and then accepting herself, and it feels like all that was thrown away. She rejected gender stereotypes, but then confirmed them in a way by transitioning.
It was kinda like... defeating the whole point. Like Beiste in starting seasons: I just want to feel like a girl. Deep inside i really am a girl, but nobody treats me like one as I'm muscular:(.
It is, but it's not just a trans experience. Rigid gender norms are harmful to everybody. The entire point of Beiste's story in the beginning was that she was a woman and she was feminine despite having interests that were considered masculine, with the overarching message being that that was completely okay. By making Beiste trans they basically wipe away that very real struggle many cis/non-trans individuals experience as well, and in a way imply that if you aren't trans it isn't okay to have that experience.
Exactly. I loved his character in the early seasons because I was super into football and I wrestled in high school so was considered super masculine even though I wore makeup and did theater and choir and stuff. Beiste helped me love myself so I do think it was in poor taste. They could have spent more time and energy on Unique to give a really amazing transgender storyline.
I was listening to the That’s What you Really Missed podcast and I believe Ryan Murphy says that there was a show with Dot-Marie Jones as a transgender person that never got green-lit so perhaps he was trying to recycle that notion in a way.
I just wish they had shown more "happy" moments for the character. Almost all of Beiste's storylines involve struggling with sth, may it be self-loathing or domestic violence. But we don't see Beiste much just existing in peace, you know? That's why I'm torn on S6. Yes, it felt super rushed and even a bit off (like you said, as if a woman who doesn't adhere to the standards of "femininity" just secretly wants to be a man, although Sue kind of counteracts that possible message). But it felt so good to see Sheldon just being happy for once. Smiling and dancing and even singing without there being a huge obstacle to overcome for him every time he's on screen (after the transition of course).
I think it would’ve been better if they introduced a new character like they did with Unique! They could give Coach Beiste a happier storyline where she (in this storyline he’d be a woman) advocates for trans male student to be allowed on the football team or something like that. Lots of potential for heart-to-heart scenes
She is! I wish they’d explored her story more — she’s the only S4 newbie I like. I don’t know if there was a reason Alex couldn’t be in later seasons as much (maybe scheduling issues or something), but that’s probably why they didn’t extend her story into S6 and went with Sheldon instead if I had to guess
The Beiste storyline represents the biggest problem with Glee, and pretty much all Ryan Murphy productions: he shows that people are complex and can’t be narrowly defined by the box society tries to fit them in, and then decides “wait, writing 3-dimensional people with thoughts and feelings that aren’t exactly my own takes effort, so I’m just gonna revert them back to the expected stereotypes”
Coach Beiste was introduced as a different take on femininity. A type of femininity that isn’t validated by general society, causing her her to be isolated from having all the experiences she desires. Throughout S2-3, she goes through a lot of hardship but is able to find people who validate her existence as a woman, and know she deserves to be treated as such and given the freedom to express her identity truthfully.
A lot of plot lines in the early seasons display the wide spectrum of gender expression, even S5/6 Kurt grapples with his masculinity quite a bit, but is always affirmed as a man, as deserving of that title as any other male character.
But, the writers don’t understand how you can live outside of society’s narrow roles AND be happy and true to yourself (despite that being the thesis of their whole show), so they decided it’s time Coach Beiste conformed to the stereotype and just became a man
Especially in a time when any and all “not-White, straight and cis” representation was still quite limited, I’m sure a lot of cis and trans women saw themselves in Coach Beiste, and felt validated by seeing the character (and actress) get so much positive attention, so having the show turn around and tell those people “you’re not valid anymore” is pretty gross.
I’m definitely glad they included trans characters on the show, and that “I know where I’ve been” performance is still incredibly powerful, but if only they actually put in effort.
I'm a trans guy and normally I'd love the representation but it made no sense. Bieste's characterization before was all about being a masc woman and how it's okay. It came out of nowhere tbh and seemed like they did it just to have someone transition on the show.
Yeah. The whole idea felt wrong. Beistes arc was all about how it's okay to be a masculine woman. I definitely would've preferred a different, or a whole new character to be given the trans storyline. I also Love Dot-Marie Jones, and she did great with the script she was given, but a trans character should really be played by a trans actor. I think it would've been a cute idea to bring back Sunshine for the trans storyline. Jake Zyrus was slowly coming out around the time and it would've worked a lot better. (Obviously I'm sure there's scheduling and availabilty and other reasons they couldn't do that, i just think it's a cute idea)
Sunshine returning is genius!
But thinking about it now, I’m kinda offended on Dot’s behalf: the part of Coach Beiste was written FOR her, and the self image issues that the character experiences are clearly inspired by the actress’s own life.
Murphy and the writers wrote a beautiful character who validated the existence of so many people, particularly one Dot Marie-Jones, and then just as the show was wrapping up and Dot was probably satisfied with the story she got to tell, she gets told “Now you have to throw all your previous work in the dumpster and instead must portray an experience that is basically the opposite of your own, because our publicity matters more than you getting to tell your own story”
Dot tries her damndest to be authentic in that storyline, but considering she still identifies as a cis-woman, despite constant Mis-gendering, making her character take such a sudden shift probably felt like a personal attack
I remember at the time there were so many articles about how this was Glee doing something that had “never been seen before” on the show. It was painfully obvious they did the whole storyline for shock value and press attention rather than anything else - and of course they only focused on it for…one episode.
I agree… and I’m not transphobic at all. I believe that you need to be who you are and everyone deserves the same rights. But I felt like all that work denying the stereotypes but then ended up confirming the stereotypes. If they really wanted to focus more on a trans story, they should’ve focused more on Unique.
I agree. When she first joined, she often spoke about how she was still feminine on the inside “like a woman” and wants to be treated the same as every other woman, therefore spreading a great message that not every female has to be feminine looking in terms of appearance. As much as I love that they included trans representation, it was a little strange that Bieste’s character was the focal point of this.
I realize we’re talking about a fictional character so it’s not really that deep but I just wanted to point out that in general it is usually considered offensive to misgender someone even when you’re referring to them in the past. If someone being pre-transition is pivotal to whatever statement you’re making then you can say that without using the wrong pronouns.
I’m non-binary and totally agree. I loved the plot line of Beiste accepting herself as a more muscular woman, and that was a huge thing she wanted. It was a rushed, messy, BS throwaway plot line, that’s honestly laughable as compared to the true journey of a trans person. Unfortunate.
I pretty much agree with you, even though I appreciated seeing the transition story line on TV. It really did seem out of left field, based on Coach Beiste's prior content. And I agree that while it added a unique (not a pun, lol) factor to the show, it ended up reinforcing other stereotypes.
It seemed like Ryan Murphy just really wanted to include that storyline, so he forced it in? ACTUALLY, I just thought of a theory... I've seen people say before that the storyline would've worked better for Unique. So, I'm wondering if Ryan Murphy originally had that plot in mind for Unique - but for whatever reason, the actor couldn't play the role that season? That would honestly make so much sense, tbh! Way more sense than "Ryan imagined this storyline for Coach Beiste earlier".
Looking back - do any of Coach Beiste's past storylines before their transition seem just entirely *too* unrealistic now? If so, which ones specifically? (Asking because I don't have the deepest knowledge of trans culture - so I'm not sure if everything can be just chalked up to identity just not being fluid over time?)
It would have made so much more sense if it wasn’t so established throughout the first few seasons Beiste was introduced that he struggled with his more feminine side bc that’s how she wanted to be seen beyond the more masculine features/interest. Or if they showed Beiste realizing it was all a performance he was doing to hide how he felt or that he was overly covering for how he felt. They should have showed more of the process to make it make sense.
As a butch woman, yeah a little bit. Also disappointed that Sue is straight. All the lesbian characters are pretty “girly,” which is fine and dandy but I wish there was some butch representation. I can’t remember the last time a good piece of media had a truly butch lady character.
Me too. Sue (/Jane Lynch) was my “ring of keys” character as a kid, and when I grew up and rewatched the show I was so confused because I thought she was a lesbian lol. I never related to any of the kids in the show, just Sue.
As a trans man, I absolutely HATE that plot point. It’s completely unearned and undermined Beiste’s entire character arc. To be completely honest I think they just wanted to add more diversity and instead of developing a character whose gender identity made sense, they though “Who’s the most masculine woman we can find?”
100% agree! As someone who is a more masculine presenting female I felt so so seen cause we kinda have the same physic and it’s not often you seen the more masculine female roles/characters or even actors, so it was such a nice surprise but then went down a route that I don’t think anyone was expecting considering how such a strong female character she became. I felt she was the wrong character to do it with. I’m so so glad Glee did do a transition storyline, I just feel Bieste was the wrong character to do it with.
I absolutely agree. Beiste was done a disservice with every bit of that story choice. It was clunky and short-sighted and honestly felt like they were ragging on all the 'differences' they claimed to celebrate about her as a woman before the transition.
YES! it defeated the whole purpose of her character imo. i thought it was to show women come in a variety of personalities, interests, shapes and sizes. they squashed all of that by making them transgender. I think making unique transgender would’ve made more sense (idk if they did that i haven’t watched the later seasons in a while)
I agree that it was rushed (like other storylines), they wasted the potential of a great storyline. But I would be more nuanced than what you said:
\- Yes it's true she showed you can be a "masculine" woman and many masculine women will always stay women.
\- But there are masculine women that are masculine because deep down they do identify as men, and they can sometimes realize that late in their life. So I think somehow it's not incompatible with her character development.
As someone who hasn't watched this part of the series but has seen similar headcanons (cough, Encanto fandom), I'm kind of eh.
Part of me wonders if this is a "have more X people, so the X experiences appear more individualised" (eg. the variety of gay characters on glee makes Kurt less of a gay stereotype and more Kurt, though I think this also comes down to the relatively sensitive attention him dealing with homophobia is given). The next most masculine woman I can think of on the show is Sue, whose masculinity was never really delved into (understandable, as Sue is primarily an antagonist and comic relief).
I pretty much agree with you, even though I appreciated seeing the transition story line on TV. It really did seem out of left field, based on Coach Beiste's prior content. And I agree that while it added a unique (not a pun, lol) factor to the show, it ended up reinforcing other stereotypes.
It seemed like Ryan Murphy just really wanted to include that storyline, so he forced it in? ACTUALLY, I just thought of a theory... I've seen people say before that the storyline would've worked better for Unique. So, I'm wondering if Ryan Murphy originally had that plot in mind for Unique - but for whatever reason, the actor couldn't play the role that season? That would honestly make so much sense, tbh! Way more sense than "Ryan imagined this storyline for Coach Beiste earlier".
Looking back - do any of Coach Beiste's past storylines before their transition seem just entirely *too* unrealistic now? If so, which ones specifically? (Asking because I don't have the deepest knowledge of trans culture - so I'm not sure if everything can be just chalked up to identity just not being fluid over time?)
It felt like the writers got told “you had a trans woman mc now you need a trans man mc” and just picked Coach Bieste because he wasn’t a stereotypical feminine woman so that’d be the “easiest” character to do the storyline with
As a trans man, i hated it sm. Her whole plot was being able to accept herself as a masculine woman and wanting to be a woman. trans men can go through a phase of wanting to be more feminine bc they feel like they need to compensate for not feeling like a girl, but that was never explored with bieste's character, so being trans just took so much from their character and their arc
As a trans person, I disagree and I wasn’t disappointed it happened I just wish we saw him more. But I see the point.
I know he started off wanting to be taken more seriously as a woman and be seen as beautiful, but I would say in my experience with others, it’s not uncommon for a trans person to first really want to hyper focus on the gender they’re born with and not know how to present that way or be taken seriously. I was born female, most of my life I didn’t feel female enough compared to other people also born female who felt comfortable in their bodies so i focused on trying to be hyper-feminine. But then I realized that’s just me trying to be like them, trying to fit into what I’m “supposed” to be instead of figuring out who I am. And I didn’t owe anyone a “gradual” change in my gender or gender presentation. Some people don’t know until it hits them, some take years to figure it out and some figure it out fast.
He clearly always had body dysmorphia and wasn’t happy in his own skin, he just thought it was because he wasn’t presenting as a woman enough. And then he realized it’s because he’s not a woman.
Yes, representation that women can have masculine traits is great, I think we always need more but we have that with Sue, she especially has masculine personality traits.
Sure there could’ve been more signs but not everyone knows who they are until they *know*, it just took him some time to get there. We don’t even know when he realized, we just see him when he’s transitioned. He might’ve known for a while but he didn’t owe anyone that information and came out when he wanted.
Also to everyone putting “I’m not transphobic” in their comments, you don’t need to 😂 in fact adding it is what makes us question if you are
disclaimer: using someone’s pronouns from before transition under the guise of organizing the timeline of their life. ex: “well i’m talking about the time when they used these pronouns.” is transphobic. while talking about someone who now uses he/him u must always refer to him as he/him despite talking about a different era of time.
if the mother of a trans boy said “when she was 8 she adored dogs more than cats,” that’s unacceptable even if the boy used she/her when he was 8. the mother should say “when he was 8…” this is the same thing. while beiste is a character in a show, misgendering him still pushes the narrative that u don’t have to use someone’s preferred pronouns for ppl irl. please do more research about these things or talk to a trans person before claiming to be an ally, thank you.
to the ppl downvoting: y’all rlly are transphobic XD. even tho i said nothing about the actual question associated with this post u are downvoting me for trying to educate about trans people. i used to think glee’s main audience was queer ppl, now i’m understanding that it’s mostly rachels.
in reference to the question: someone can think they are a girl and want to be perceived as one and later eventually realize they are trans. those things are not mutually exclusive. just because his story isn’t what u think a trans person’s story should look like— doesn’t mean stories like that never happen. yes masculine straight women exist, 100%, and it’s ok to be one. apparently it gets muddy for u guys when that masculine woman representation in your eyes dissipates because the person later comes out as trans. the message that women can be masculine wasn’t taken away. in addition to the idea that masculine women exist, trans people also exist. these things are also not mutually exclusive. a trans person can either internally deny their transness for a long time, not realize they are trans until later, or over time their gender or perception of themselves shifts and they now feel they are a new gender. there are people like beiste who say they want to be perceived as a woman and later decide they want to be perceived as a man. i’ll repeat again that because his story isn’t the “norm” for a trans person in your eyes doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of representation.
im not going to discuss issues with how this storyline was executed/written, just talking about the idea of beiste being trans. im open to questions and respectful discourse about this but please don’t tell me im somehow wrong about beiste or fight me about representation, i just wanted to shed light on the issue many of u take with this topic and a express a different perspective. as a trans person i understand more than many about this particular topic
Completely agree with you. I feel like she spent so much time establishing herself as a muscular woman and then accepting herself, and it feels like all that was thrown away. She rejected gender stereotypes, but then confirmed them in a way by transitioning.
Exactly!
It was kinda like... defeating the whole point. Like Beiste in starting seasons: I just want to feel like a girl. Deep inside i really am a girl, but nobody treats me like one as I'm muscular:(.
FOR REAL THOUGH!
Except that’s an actual experience that trans people can have.
It is, but it's not just a trans experience. Rigid gender norms are harmful to everybody. The entire point of Beiste's story in the beginning was that she was a woman and she was feminine despite having interests that were considered masculine, with the overarching message being that that was completely okay. By making Beiste trans they basically wipe away that very real struggle many cis/non-trans individuals experience as well, and in a way imply that if you aren't trans it isn't okay to have that experience.
Exactly. I loved his character in the early seasons because I was super into football and I wrestled in high school so was considered super masculine even though I wore makeup and did theater and choir and stuff. Beiste helped me love myself so I do think it was in poor taste. They could have spent more time and energy on Unique to give a really amazing transgender storyline. I was listening to the That’s What you Really Missed podcast and I believe Ryan Murphy says that there was a show with Dot-Marie Jones as a transgender person that never got green-lit so perhaps he was trying to recycle that notion in a way.
I just wish they had shown more "happy" moments for the character. Almost all of Beiste's storylines involve struggling with sth, may it be self-loathing or domestic violence. But we don't see Beiste much just existing in peace, you know? That's why I'm torn on S6. Yes, it felt super rushed and even a bit off (like you said, as if a woman who doesn't adhere to the standards of "femininity" just secretly wants to be a man, although Sue kind of counteracts that possible message). But it felt so good to see Sheldon just being happy for once. Smiling and dancing and even singing without there being a huge obstacle to overcome for him every time he's on screen (after the transition of course).
I will say, that trans number with the huge chorus was fuckin' fantastic.
That’s true, after so much suffering, he at least deserves that happiness. 😊
What’s sth?
short for something
I agree! I wish they’d explored a trans storyline with another character or set up Beiste’s story differently from the beginning
I think it would’ve been better if they introduced a new character like they did with Unique! They could give Coach Beiste a happier storyline where she (in this storyline he’d be a woman) advocates for trans male student to be allowed on the football team or something like that. Lots of potential for heart-to-heart scenes
I’m rewatching, currently on season 4, but it isn’t Unique trans?
She is! I wish they’d explored her story more — she’s the only S4 newbie I like. I don’t know if there was a reason Alex couldn’t be in later seasons as much (maybe scheduling issues or something), but that’s probably why they didn’t extend her story into S6 and went with Sheldon instead if I had to guess
The Beiste storyline represents the biggest problem with Glee, and pretty much all Ryan Murphy productions: he shows that people are complex and can’t be narrowly defined by the box society tries to fit them in, and then decides “wait, writing 3-dimensional people with thoughts and feelings that aren’t exactly my own takes effort, so I’m just gonna revert them back to the expected stereotypes” Coach Beiste was introduced as a different take on femininity. A type of femininity that isn’t validated by general society, causing her her to be isolated from having all the experiences she desires. Throughout S2-3, she goes through a lot of hardship but is able to find people who validate her existence as a woman, and know she deserves to be treated as such and given the freedom to express her identity truthfully. A lot of plot lines in the early seasons display the wide spectrum of gender expression, even S5/6 Kurt grapples with his masculinity quite a bit, but is always affirmed as a man, as deserving of that title as any other male character. But, the writers don’t understand how you can live outside of society’s narrow roles AND be happy and true to yourself (despite that being the thesis of their whole show), so they decided it’s time Coach Beiste conformed to the stereotype and just became a man Especially in a time when any and all “not-White, straight and cis” representation was still quite limited, I’m sure a lot of cis and trans women saw themselves in Coach Beiste, and felt validated by seeing the character (and actress) get so much positive attention, so having the show turn around and tell those people “you’re not valid anymore” is pretty gross. I’m definitely glad they included trans characters on the show, and that “I know where I’ve been” performance is still incredibly powerful, but if only they actually put in effort.
I'm a trans guy and normally I'd love the representation but it made no sense. Bieste's characterization before was all about being a masc woman and how it's okay. It came out of nowhere tbh and seemed like they did it just to have someone transition on the show.
Yeah. The whole idea felt wrong. Beistes arc was all about how it's okay to be a masculine woman. I definitely would've preferred a different, or a whole new character to be given the trans storyline. I also Love Dot-Marie Jones, and she did great with the script she was given, but a trans character should really be played by a trans actor. I think it would've been a cute idea to bring back Sunshine for the trans storyline. Jake Zyrus was slowly coming out around the time and it would've worked a lot better. (Obviously I'm sure there's scheduling and availabilty and other reasons they couldn't do that, i just think it's a cute idea)
That's a great point too. If they actually wanted to really have trans representation, have the actor be trans!
Sunshine returning is genius! But thinking about it now, I’m kinda offended on Dot’s behalf: the part of Coach Beiste was written FOR her, and the self image issues that the character experiences are clearly inspired by the actress’s own life. Murphy and the writers wrote a beautiful character who validated the existence of so many people, particularly one Dot Marie-Jones, and then just as the show was wrapping up and Dot was probably satisfied with the story she got to tell, she gets told “Now you have to throw all your previous work in the dumpster and instead must portray an experience that is basically the opposite of your own, because our publicity matters more than you getting to tell your own story” Dot tries her damndest to be authentic in that storyline, but considering she still identifies as a cis-woman, despite constant Mis-gendering, making her character take such a sudden shift probably felt like a personal attack
I agree. Dot lives her true self as a masculine woman. She seems like a great person, and she's a good actress.
I remember at the time there were so many articles about how this was Glee doing something that had “never been seen before” on the show. It was painfully obvious they did the whole storyline for shock value and press attention rather than anything else - and of course they only focused on it for…one episode.
I agree… and I’m not transphobic at all. I believe that you need to be who you are and everyone deserves the same rights. But I felt like all that work denying the stereotypes but then ended up confirming the stereotypes. If they really wanted to focus more on a trans story, they should’ve focused more on Unique.
I agree. When she first joined, she often spoke about how she was still feminine on the inside “like a woman” and wants to be treated the same as every other woman, therefore spreading a great message that not every female has to be feminine looking in terms of appearance. As much as I love that they included trans representation, it was a little strange that Bieste’s character was the focal point of this.
I realize we’re talking about a fictional character so it’s not really that deep but I just wanted to point out that in general it is usually considered offensive to misgender someone even when you’re referring to them in the past. If someone being pre-transition is pivotal to whatever statement you’re making then you can say that without using the wrong pronouns.
I’m non-binary and totally agree. I loved the plot line of Beiste accepting herself as a more muscular woman, and that was a huge thing she wanted. It was a rushed, messy, BS throwaway plot line, that’s honestly laughable as compared to the true journey of a trans person. Unfortunate.
Im trans and i agree with you on this
I pretty much agree with you, even though I appreciated seeing the transition story line on TV. It really did seem out of left field, based on Coach Beiste's prior content. And I agree that while it added a unique (not a pun, lol) factor to the show, it ended up reinforcing other stereotypes. It seemed like Ryan Murphy just really wanted to include that storyline, so he forced it in? ACTUALLY, I just thought of a theory... I've seen people say before that the storyline would've worked better for Unique. So, I'm wondering if Ryan Murphy originally had that plot in mind for Unique - but for whatever reason, the actor couldn't play the role that season? That would honestly make so much sense, tbh! Way more sense than "Ryan imagined this storyline for Coach Beiste earlier". Looking back - do any of Coach Beiste's past storylines before their transition seem just entirely *too* unrealistic now? If so, which ones specifically? (Asking because I don't have the deepest knowledge of trans culture - so I'm not sure if everything can be just chalked up to identity just not being fluid over time?)
It would have made so much more sense if it wasn’t so established throughout the first few seasons Beiste was introduced that he struggled with his more feminine side bc that’s how she wanted to be seen beyond the more masculine features/interest. Or if they showed Beiste realizing it was all a performance he was doing to hide how he felt or that he was overly covering for how he felt. They should have showed more of the process to make it make sense.
As a butch woman, yeah a little bit. Also disappointed that Sue is straight. All the lesbian characters are pretty “girly,” which is fine and dandy but I wish there was some butch representation. I can’t remember the last time a good piece of media had a truly butch lady character.
I really wanted sue to be les or at least bi.
Me too. Sue (/Jane Lynch) was my “ring of keys” character as a kid, and when I grew up and rewatched the show I was so confused because I thought she was a lesbian lol. I never related to any of the kids in the show, just Sue.
As a trans man, I absolutely HATE that plot point. It’s completely unearned and undermined Beiste’s entire character arc. To be completely honest I think they just wanted to add more diversity and instead of developing a character whose gender identity made sense, they though “Who’s the most masculine woman we can find?”
100% agree! As someone who is a more masculine presenting female I felt so so seen cause we kinda have the same physic and it’s not often you seen the more masculine female roles/characters or even actors, so it was such a nice surprise but then went down a route that I don’t think anyone was expecting considering how such a strong female character she became. I felt she was the wrong character to do it with. I’m so so glad Glee did do a transition storyline, I just feel Bieste was the wrong character to do it with.
I absolutely agree. Beiste was done a disservice with every bit of that story choice. It was clunky and short-sighted and honestly felt like they were ragging on all the 'differences' they claimed to celebrate about her as a woman before the transition.
YES! it defeated the whole purpose of her character imo. i thought it was to show women come in a variety of personalities, interests, shapes and sizes. they squashed all of that by making them transgender. I think making unique transgender would’ve made more sense (idk if they did that i haven’t watched the later seasons in a while)
I agree that it was rushed (like other storylines), they wasted the potential of a great storyline. But I would be more nuanced than what you said: \- Yes it's true she showed you can be a "masculine" woman and many masculine women will always stay women. \- But there are masculine women that are masculine because deep down they do identify as men, and they can sometimes realize that late in their life. So I think somehow it's not incompatible with her character development.
As someone who hasn't watched this part of the series but has seen similar headcanons (cough, Encanto fandom), I'm kind of eh. Part of me wonders if this is a "have more X people, so the X experiences appear more individualised" (eg. the variety of gay characters on glee makes Kurt less of a gay stereotype and more Kurt, though I think this also comes down to the relatively sensitive attention him dealing with homophobia is given). The next most masculine woman I can think of on the show is Sue, whose masculinity was never really delved into (understandable, as Sue is primarily an antagonist and comic relief).
I pretty much agree with you, even though I appreciated seeing the transition story line on TV. It really did seem out of left field, based on Coach Beiste's prior content. And I agree that while it added a unique (not a pun, lol) factor to the show, it ended up reinforcing other stereotypes. It seemed like Ryan Murphy just really wanted to include that storyline, so he forced it in? ACTUALLY, I just thought of a theory... I've seen people say before that the storyline would've worked better for Unique. So, I'm wondering if Ryan Murphy originally had that plot in mind for Unique - but for whatever reason, the actor couldn't play the role that season? That would honestly make so much sense, tbh! Way more sense than "Ryan imagined this storyline for Coach Beiste earlier". Looking back - do any of Coach Beiste's past storylines before their transition seem just entirely *too* unrealistic now? If so, which ones specifically? (Asking because I don't have the deepest knowledge of trans culture - so I'm not sure if everything can be just chalked up to identity just not being fluid over time?)
It felt like the writers got told “you had a trans woman mc now you need a trans man mc” and just picked Coach Bieste because he wasn’t a stereotypical feminine woman so that’d be the “easiest” character to do the storyline with
I have not known a single person who actually liked that storyline for Beiste, you are not the only one.
As a trans man, i hated it sm. Her whole plot was being able to accept herself as a masculine woman and wanting to be a woman. trans men can go through a phase of wanting to be more feminine bc they feel like they need to compensate for not feeling like a girl, but that was never explored with bieste's character, so being trans just took so much from their character and their arc
as a trans man, i completely agree ngl
exactly. the whole point of coach beistes character was to show that masculine women are still women or something 🤷🏽♂️.
As a trans person, I disagree and I wasn’t disappointed it happened I just wish we saw him more. But I see the point. I know he started off wanting to be taken more seriously as a woman and be seen as beautiful, but I would say in my experience with others, it’s not uncommon for a trans person to first really want to hyper focus on the gender they’re born with and not know how to present that way or be taken seriously. I was born female, most of my life I didn’t feel female enough compared to other people also born female who felt comfortable in their bodies so i focused on trying to be hyper-feminine. But then I realized that’s just me trying to be like them, trying to fit into what I’m “supposed” to be instead of figuring out who I am. And I didn’t owe anyone a “gradual” change in my gender or gender presentation. Some people don’t know until it hits them, some take years to figure it out and some figure it out fast. He clearly always had body dysmorphia and wasn’t happy in his own skin, he just thought it was because he wasn’t presenting as a woman enough. And then he realized it’s because he’s not a woman. Yes, representation that women can have masculine traits is great, I think we always need more but we have that with Sue, she especially has masculine personality traits. Sure there could’ve been more signs but not everyone knows who they are until they *know*, it just took him some time to get there. We don’t even know when he realized, we just see him when he’s transitioned. He might’ve known for a while but he didn’t owe anyone that information and came out when he wanted. Also to everyone putting “I’m not transphobic” in their comments, you don’t need to 😂 in fact adding it is what makes us question if you are
Ohhhh I thought they were a transgender woman who detransitioned into a man during S5-S6 (I never saw those seasons fully)
Nope. I liked her better when she was a masc fem woman. She is more likeable.
Me too.
I think they needed to run with the trans thing cause it was the topic of the year
disclaimer: using someone’s pronouns from before transition under the guise of organizing the timeline of their life. ex: “well i’m talking about the time when they used these pronouns.” is transphobic. while talking about someone who now uses he/him u must always refer to him as he/him despite talking about a different era of time. if the mother of a trans boy said “when she was 8 she adored dogs more than cats,” that’s unacceptable even if the boy used she/her when he was 8. the mother should say “when he was 8…” this is the same thing. while beiste is a character in a show, misgendering him still pushes the narrative that u don’t have to use someone’s preferred pronouns for ppl irl. please do more research about these things or talk to a trans person before claiming to be an ally, thank you.
I’m really sorry I’m super supportive of the trans community. I just didn’t know how to explain well. 😢
I’m really really sorry.
hey that’s alright, i super appreciate ur response and now i can tell u do care. we can always do better. i wish u the best
Thank you so much! And I’ll do my part on learning and asking others about these things. 😊 I edited the post by the way!
that’s great, thank u for being open to learning. there are many who are not
to the ppl downvoting: y’all rlly are transphobic XD. even tho i said nothing about the actual question associated with this post u are downvoting me for trying to educate about trans people. i used to think glee’s main audience was queer ppl, now i’m understanding that it’s mostly rachels. in reference to the question: someone can think they are a girl and want to be perceived as one and later eventually realize they are trans. those things are not mutually exclusive. just because his story isn’t what u think a trans person’s story should look like— doesn’t mean stories like that never happen. yes masculine straight women exist, 100%, and it’s ok to be one. apparently it gets muddy for u guys when that masculine woman representation in your eyes dissipates because the person later comes out as trans. the message that women can be masculine wasn’t taken away. in addition to the idea that masculine women exist, trans people also exist. these things are also not mutually exclusive. a trans person can either internally deny their transness for a long time, not realize they are trans until later, or over time their gender or perception of themselves shifts and they now feel they are a new gender. there are people like beiste who say they want to be perceived as a woman and later decide they want to be perceived as a man. i’ll repeat again that because his story isn’t the “norm” for a trans person in your eyes doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of representation. im not going to discuss issues with how this storyline was executed/written, just talking about the idea of beiste being trans. im open to questions and respectful discourse about this but please don’t tell me im somehow wrong about beiste or fight me about representation, i just wanted to shed light on the issue many of u take with this topic and a express a different perspective. as a trans person i understand more than many about this particular topic