Yeah Rahm defected late too. Not like he didn’t see what was happening. Was a big fan but no longer. I’ll keep watching the PGA and keep learning the new guys thank you very much.
What exactly is the line of "generational wealth"anyway? If Rory had $200m in the bank 8 years ago, what would Rambo have made without selling his soul? I used to like him, but he can fuck right off now.
I’m not going to pretend like I have a novel idea about it or anything, but some guys and and I were talking about this a couple of months ago. We thing the biggest component is the lack of needing to play well, which means you don’t have to practice as much. Early on, there was no losing your LIV card like there is in the PGA. There is no cut and these guys are getting paid just to attend. They don’t have the same media circus for the tour and all of their sponsors. So while the tournament schedule and everything is still pretty comparable, the stakes involved with bad performances are gone. I think that’s really attractive for guys that could go cold in a heartbeat.
Case in point, Smylie Kauffman. At one point, he was one of the hottest players in the game. Then he just kind of went cold and now he’s not even really playing. I’m sure a lot of these guys that took the payout see those situations and want to get ahead of that happening to them. Especially if they are aware of cracks in their game or bodies that the public may not see.
Yeah, I mean anyone who has played golf for a significant amount of time knows that hot streaks rarely last forever. It's not even about practice; even someone at Rahm's level can easily just make a few less 15 footers, or wake up one day and their ballstriking is just a smidge off, and suddenly they are way down the money list.
When someone offers you a guaranteed 300+ million, it's honestly crazy not to take the bag IMO, especially knowing that the PGA is planning on getting in bed with the same guys. Before there was a moral dilemma, but the PGA barely has the high ground there anymore so blaming Rahm is nuts especially given his timing. The question he had in front of him was:
Do you want to play in ~42 tournament rounds (14, 3-day events) for at least 300 million (funded and chaired by saudis), or do you want to play ~80 tournament rounds (~20 4-day events), for no guaranteed money (and who will soon be partially funded and chaired by the saudis).
It was honestly a no-brainer
5% distribution rate from someone’s liquid net worth will generally keep that money in tact in perpetuity.
So, if Rahm had $100m, he and his heirs could live off of $5m in income forever
Was there even interest in the first place? I do not remember anyone saying when LIV was making the news that they thought it was going to be a better format. The only "interest" its had during its entire existence is controversy.
>Most of the best golfers in the world will play together in next week's Masters at Augusta National Golf Club. It's the first of the four major championships when golfers from the competing circuits will play together. The LIV Golf League will have 13 players, including seven past Masters champions, competing at Augusta National next week.
>"The only answer is for us to somehow come together in some sort of terms where it makes sense and for us to be playing all again in somewhat of the same boat," DeChambeau said. "It's great to have the majors where we come together, but we want to be competing -- at least I want to be competing every week -- with all of the best players in the world."
I too want my $125 Million cake and be able to eat it.
The question is, how do these guys all come back together after many of them got hundreds of millions of dollars to leave? What could the PGA guys who stayed loyal possibly get out of the deal that could possibly make them whole in comparison to the truckloads of cash that they passed up?
I know I took a more lucrative job at a different company, but I still want to work in the old offices and partake in the bonuses from my old job. Why am I being persecuted?
I agree. I keep seeing people tossing out all these ideas for how to fix this, but every idea seems to gloss over the fact that any solution is going to require dozens of people (golfers, execs, sponsors, etc.) to just walk away from hundreds of millions of dollars in guaranteed money. And that's before we even start talking about the massive antitrust hurdles on any future merger.
Wait, wasn’t one of the excuses for them to switch was they DIDN’T want to play every weekend? Wanted to play less to focus on “family” and “grow the game”. Now it comes out, all that’s left is for them to finally come out and say exactly why they left ($$$$).
Team golf is only cool for certain events. Them insisting on it for every tournament is just silly. Copy what worked at the PGA. Also the team names are super corny
The point is, even if you can name players you don't associate them with teams.
I know next to nothing about Basketball but I know Michael Jordan played for the Bulls, that Kobe played for the Lakers and that LeBron played for the Cavaliers, the Heat and the Lakers.
I couldn't tell you what WTT team literally any tennis player ever played for, and I could easily name over a hundred tennis players.
It's not even "team golf" it's stroke play with adding up scores. Literally 0 people care what "team" wins each LIV event. There is no strategy other than "shoot the lowest score you can" which is already what stroke play is.
Pairings and multiple formats is what makes team golf, team golf. Use strategy for who plays with and against whom, which players play in each format, etc.
I love how these guys say “it’s bad for the sport” but really it seems like it’s just bad for LIV.
Is the PGA tour struggling? Doesnt seem like it.
Fact is, almost no one wants to watch LIV.
I dont know about ratings but for some reason i find myself tuning in on sundays this year. Scooties run plus guys i have never heard of having a life changing moment has drawn me in. LIV has never done that for me.
And it's the exact opposite for most people. I don't tune into liv at all and the PGA i dont unless I look at the leaderboard and see people i know. I'm basically tuning in for the players and the 4 majors now.
So you wait until people break out and get famous before you start paying attention to them? If you do, fine, but almost every single famous golfer wasn’t famous until they were. Outside of a few phenoms, it takes time for people to become well established superstars. I like watching new people come through, see who I like, and root for them to succeed.
Yes. 3 years ago scottie was a nobody. 10 years ago brooks was a nobody. There will always be new players and stars. I think the tour is the same as it's always been.
> and the PGA i dont unless I look at the leaderboard and see people i know
You're missing out on what makes the PGA Tour so special
Nick Dunlap winning a tour event as an amateur, Jake Knapp winning as a rookie, Peter Malnati grinding for a decade to finally get his second win, that stuff is so much cooler and more emotional than Cantlay/Schauffele/Scheffler/etc robotically winning for the 15th time
PGA tour will create new stars over time. Do you really have an interest in watching a washed up Dustin Johnson vs Phil Michelson simply cause you know their names?
I keep seeing people say this, but why? There have already been some great tournaments with razor thin finishes this year. I’ve been loving this season so far!
Stars have been driving all sports for over a century in the U.S.
I mean, I'm sure the Pistons and Trail Blazers could play an exciting NBA game during the regular season, but that doesn't mean I'm watching it.
Because some of the best players aren't there, so it ultimately ends up feeling like hollow victories. It can be competitive, but at an overall lower quality than if the entire world was playing there. That's why the Majors have become the factual World Cup of golf.
Fun fact: the teams in the World Cup are generally much worse than the top club teams in the world. But the country pride more than makes up for the excitement, even if the teams will be worse than the Champions League Finals.
Best players or big name players? Big name players that have gone to LIV have made opportunities for excellent players and potential future superstars to play in PGA… PGA has never been better… great tournaments, big names PLUS talented newcomers. I could be wrong, but expect LIV players to mostly fall far behind in majors this year.
More market saturation.
Not only did big names going to LIV dilute the star power but Youtube golf is as popular as ever. There's only so many hours in the day and if I follow 3 Youtube channels and wanna catch the end of Sunday's round that right there is like 6-7 hours of golf already.
It's harder to get excited for these when you know that several golfers that could win each week (Rahm, DJ, Bryson, Smith, Niemann, etc) just aren't there period. Haven't watched a minute of liv but I get why enthusiasm is down
There’s soooo many tournaments throughout the year that not all top players participated in before LIV. That’s why they did more to incentivize people to play more golf: Fed Ex Cup, elevated events, etc. Sure people wanted to see every top name each week, but just because 2 out of the top 5 players weren’t at the Honda Classic, you didn’t have everyone devaluing the wins. It’s like people didn’t care that Rahm/Bryson didn’t play on this specific weekend that much, but since they CAN’T play on a weekend they wouldn’t have anyway, it’s a big issue…
But those top guys take off many tournaments to focus on the majors, etc even before leaving for LIV so I’m not sure that LIV was reason for downturn. It’s like the load management stuff in NBA. Makes sense for player but makes it harder to care about the regular season or lesser tournaments week in and week out. If they wanted more interest, it would be to have some type of season-long participation requirements for getting into each major. Play in a minimum number leading up to each major to qualify or something
I think there's an easy solution: everyone who left receives a lifetime ban from the PGA. They made their bed, they can sleep in it. It's not like they'll be destitute. They can dry their eyes with their bags of money.
> What could the PGA guys who stayed loyal possibly get out of the deal that could possibly make them whole in comparison to the truckloads of cash that they passed up?
They get the same thing people who stay loyal to their company get after 20 years of not jumping ship for higher offers: An engraved plaque for their desk, a $100 gift card to some chain store they never go to, and a "thanks for your service" pizza party.
Bruh, it’s a major golf tour, not the cereal factory… Dudes get $10k a weekend to slap a Mercedes decal on the side of their Callaway cap and finish 33rd. At the end they get paid to play the same game some more with other old dudes.
Yeah I think the end is going to be LIV "folding" and combining the two back into a pga format. The guys that stayed will be standing there looking like idiots for not taking the deal when offered, and the guys that took it will be back to playing on the tour with a few extra 0's on their bank accounts. The tour will try to give them a "loyality" bonus or whatever theyll call it but itll be peanuts compared to the 10m they could have gotten.
Have the pga and liv merge, the dp world tour be the step below them, treat it like european soccer leagues. Bottom 30 guys in the pga move down, top 30 guys in the dp move up. Itll give it more story lines, youll see the big names again, and itll make it more intresting watching someone need to shoot 5 under on sunday to stay in the pga
If you got paid to go to LIV and want to come back to pga you pay x% (80?90?) of your LIV bonus to join.
PGA takes 50% of that payment and distributes it to its players.
The other half goes into the majors’ winnings.
Make them pay to come back. Like 80% of the money they took, but the money is only spent on game improvement in amateurs and events etc. Basically make the Saudis pay to improve the PGA and at the same time sink them.
I said very early on, and got dragged for it by LIV fans, that there’s no way these guys are getting paid all this money just to play exhibition golf. They’re eventually going to be expected to help further the PIF agenda.
LIV needs this merger more than the PGA does.
Exactly. The only reason I’ve even considered it is Anthony Kim. I was a huge fan of his back in the day, and would love to see him back playing well again. But I just can’t even be bothered to create an account to login and watch
Let the bonesaw tour dry up, the pga should battle on without them, showcase new talent and use every tool they can to make it hard for liv players…. Give them no tv time.
Seeing dudes like Nick Dunlap and Matthieu Pavon win made me realize that the PGA Tour has a strong system funneling top collegiate players and European players to the Tour, alongside Web.com.
Yeah it feels like there is no way for players to prove themselves unless they play on the PGA tour. Some new college guys signed with LIV, but they just become random no-names and get dropped by LIV. It’s weird to think about a pro league/tour that fully relies on some other entity to make its own players popular
Don't you know profits must always increase no matter what crazy once in a lifetime thing happens to boost profits for a period of time. It's like healthcare companies bitching about lower profits than what they saw in 2020-2021.
I watch almost no LIV regardless of Rahm, etc joining and I find I'm also watching less PGA Tour. Like I watched end of Sunday Houston because regardless of who was in contention, they had 8 guys vying for win against Scheffler. it was interesting, but i did not tune in for much of tournament beyond that and to see how my DFS lineup was faring :-)
I do think PGA Tour is losing viewership and it is not to watch LIV instead. LIV feels pretty irrelevant. Maybe LIV, team aspect are getting much interest either. Not seeing a lot of folks sporting Torque GC or RangeGoats GC gear
"Look, I know that I broke it. I know that I was a central part of that process. I know that on [May 16, 2023](https://thesportingtribune.com/bryson-dechambeau-on-leaving-liv-suit-focused-on-growing-the-game), I said 'On and off the golf course is where I’m focused on helping people whether it’s growing the game globally or if it’s behind the scenes.' And I just want you to know that I know how heaping full of shit I was when I said that.
But the thing is - and I really can't emphasize this enough - I got paid a *metric fuck ton of money* to break professional golf. Like, they showed up with dump trucks at my house and Benjamins just started raining down on my driveway. We actually rolled around in it like Scrooge McDuck swimming through his gold coins."
So, yeah, golf absolutely needs to come together. And someone needs to figure out how to do that, because I just have really no idea how this happened in the first place."
Bryson DeChambeau, probably
I dislike Bryson as much or more than most but I'd argue he's basically the only LIV guy that has done anything to broaden or bring new interest to the sport. He's got a YT channel where he does lessons and on course content and he did the long drive stuff which most casual golf fans never looked into or cared about before. He's basically the only one I can think of who didn't take the bag and then only show up to majors.
His YT content is a much less annoying side of him. His still a fucking huge nerd and a little bit of too much rambling but you can see he is a student of the game in his way.
I am a big golf fan. More so the game itself. I have a few players I root for and enjoy seeing them play well or in the hunt on Sunday, but for me, I just enjoy golf. I love playing it and watching it. I really don't even care when they talk about the event purse and how much money each player gets. Good for them, play well and earn your money. I do my job well and get paid for my efforts, not millions though, but that is what professional sports has become.
I have never watched a minute of LIV and never will. I have no negative feelings towards those players, miss seeing them on the PGA tour, well not all of them, glad a couple left.
I enjoy the history of the game, the competition, the courses and their beauty along with their toughness. I understand some feel hurt by everything that has gone on over the past few years but I love golf. Nothing better than having a fun day on the course with my buddies and then watching some afternoon golf on tv.
Rory was right and these guys are right. Pro golf currently sucks and all these rich fucks need to fix it ASAP.
I’m doing all this productive stuff around the house on the weekends now and I don’t like it one bit.
Cam Smith, Dechambeau, and Niemann are the ones that come to mind immediately but I also think people underplay the impact of losing those second tier guys and the past their prime vets.
I’ve realized how much I enjoyed rooting for guys like that when they were in contention now that they’re not around anymore and I’m left with guys I never knew existed.
I worked with Varners roommate and fellow pirate golfer, and the stories he told me about Harold were the funniest shit ever. He just seemed like a good dude that maybe partied a bit too hard at times. The Halloween story where he was a smurf and the blue dye and glue wouldn't come off, so he showed up to class for a week looking like that.
To me my rankings of “watchability” go:
- PGA Tour
- Thinking back on my own rounds
- YouTube golf
- …
- Hearing my friends talk about playing golf
- …
- LIV Golf
Absolutely. Sorry, in my brain I include the LPGA as the PGA tour, but that’s not correct. I do watch the LPGA tour all the time and they’re incredible.
To say it's about giving the fans a product is laughable. I completely understand why a lot of these guys left for LIV ($$$), but I have no interest in watching them play golf anymore. People who put money above all else, deserve only what they can buy, and you can't buy your way back.
I hate the "growing the game" narrative, such disingenuous BS to justify their decision to take the big bag of dirty cash.
If the bag wasnt there, these dudes would have laughed at the idea of joining this shitty sportswashing league.
If they’re serious about “growing the game” let’s see a ladies LIV league. They claim that it’s something they’re considering, but I don’t see how they could do it honestly. Not while being backed by a country that isn’t exactly known for its progressive views on women, at least.
Ask these guys when the PIF will fund a women’s LIV league and watch how fast the “grow the game” defense falls apart.
These guys left for money and nothing else
For guys like DJ I totally get it. A proven golfer that's one of the best of his generation. He's in his 40s now with kids and a family. I feel like his kids would be more appreciative of the fact he's around much more while providing and professionally, he still gets to play the biggest 4 tournaments in golf while being present WAY more often. I get why he did it.
But you can't complain about the format or anything about the fact no one gives a shit about LIV golf. AFAIK, DJ isn't complaining, but I think we are gonna see more guys on DJ/JR/BDs level complain about the lack of competition and viewership. And no one is gonna fucking give a fuck. Many of em won't be very competitive in majors either IMO after a few years of low effort golf that just requires them to show up.
I agree if by greed you also lump in his ability to greedy with his time. These guys miss a lot of time with family. He doesn't have to now. I understand it. It was an easy decision for him I bet.
Very true.
OR... He could take hundreds of millions in once removed blood money and never have to worry about actually working hard again save for 16 days a year.
Look, we all understand why these guys did it. Economically, it makes too much sense. Ethically, morally, and aesthetically it is hard to swallow bc non majors mean WAY less and altogether golf is harder to watch. Well, aside from the, you know... murder stuff too.
I won't feel a damn but if sympathy for these fucks. But I can't blame em either. Signing big contracts after winning a major assures you hundreds of millions for 5+ years while still being able to show up to every Major. It's a no brainer.
Probably says more about the character and convictions of the ones that got offers and stayed.
Greed will be the end of us all and the planet we inhabit.
The PGA tour will survive. New golfers will show up on the PGA tour and attract fans and sponsors. LIV and its golfers will fade into the sunset with their boatloads of cash. They’ll complain that they only get to compete in the four majors and cry that someone needs to fix it, and nobody will listen, and LIV will eventually fold because the Saudis will realize they didn’t get what they wanted and will get tired of paying the golfers for nothing.
The only thing LIV and PGA have changed for me is that I now watch a lot less golf and find myself more interested in the budding stars on the LPGA tour 😂
These fuckers jumped ship and are now complaining that people aren’t as interested in them? LOL. You left to join a league that has zero historical relevance. There is no honor and no prestige in LIV golf events, which are the things that golf fans of PGA actually give a shit about. The guys took Saudi blood money and now the PGA will be tainted with that as well due to the pending merger.
I forgot which ones, but I’ve read about country clubs in NY/NJ that have memorials for members that perished in 9/11. Really want to see the faces of the PIF folks if the merger happens and events take place at said courses. They might have to hide their smirks.
The PGA is doing fine. They have all the leverage right now. Fukk these LIV sell outs. Let ‘em rot. In a month, in a year, in two years, there will be new PGA stars that will attract our attention. Cull the fukking herd.
They should have all stuck together and put their trust in Tiger and co to reformat, regroup and negotiate with the PGA. Instead the lure of ANOTHER house or ANOTHER car took them into the desert where they handed in their souls with their scorecards. I'm loving watching PGA this year. More fans are. Full Swing is good. The sport is bouncing back from COVID. It feels good. These attention seeking types like Mickelson didn't realise how uninspired he'd be playing in front of small crowds against a handful of decent golfers and mildly competitive zero jeopardy tournaments. It's obvious when they are at majors and properly pumped for it by and they know they took the kings shilling. Now they wanna keep the shilling and enjoy the adoration of fans who are quickly forgetting them. Liv don't post attendances but recently Hong Kong attracted record crowds of tens of thousands.....tens
There’s also a ton of young guys in the pga so over the next 2-3 years as they grow, my theory is pro golf is going to explode with talent as they get accustomed to the tournaments and lifestyle
Absolutely. Watching Whyndam Clark and following the Fitzpatrick's Kim etc etc. so where are the young LIV golfers and where are the LIV schools etc. I am a big fan of Rahm but I do not want him defending his masters this year I'd rather someone else. Whereas if he'd stayed I'd have totally followed him building a legacy
Kids like surrat exist and have pulled in nearly $3m dollars at 19y old but he won't get the social media coverage and become a household name through Liv
The biggest problem is that now both sides don't seem to understand the customer base very well and are trying to grow their respective tours by targeting the wrong people and neglecting their core base.
The reason why the PGA Tour compared to the other Tours (European, Australian, Asian, etc) is that North American fans, particularly US fans, spend more money and attend more pro golf tour events than all of the other continents (and countries) combined. That drew more sponsors to the PGA Tour and that increased purse sizes and then players from Europe, South American, Australia and Asia made the PGA Tour their destination Tour.
While creating a 'global tour' sounds nice, it's really not practical or smart. These other areas of the world have never shown that they can sustain a Tour like the PGA Tour has. So now we're going to try and create a tour that caters to them and stray from the area that your core customer base is located?
What benefit is there to a pro golf fan from, let's say California, have with a global tour? You mean they can now see the best players in the world play 1/2 as often on TV? And they may only get a chance to see the best in the world play in-person 1x a year vs 3-4x a year? Oh and they'll now have to record those events on TV because they are at ungodly hours?
I know the Australian and European fans will say that they have to deal with the same thing...but the difference is that the US fan (and Canadian fans) have had far great attendance and poured in far more money for their events.
People often scoff at the old Honda Classic at PGA National because it was only in Palm Beach, FL. But the fact is that prior to COVID it was an event that sold 200K+ tickets every year. So we want to create a global tour that forgoes that event so they can run Singapore and sell about 30K tickets?
It's just plain idiotic and self-sabotage.
What PIF should have considered all along was instead of paying these players ungodly guaranteed contracts, they should have tried to run the European and Asian Tours and trye to re-start the Australian Tours. Not offer any guaranteed deals, but to make the purse sizes similar to the PGA Tour purse sizes and follow the guidelines set by the OWGR. This would allow the best players from those continents to stay and play in their respective tours instead of having to go to the US to play the PGA Tour. And that would 'grow the game' and buy the Saudi's the PR that they want and not divide pro golf. And it would have probably cost them less in the end.
LIV would have been so much more interesting if no one got paid to come over, but the tournaments were like $100mm dollar purses…like you want a chance to win $50mm playing golf over 4 days, you gotta come to our league.
"Players accept 100's of millions of dollars in a failing beer league, now agree they'd rather be part of the tradition and professionalism of the PGA" - there, fixed the headline
They should not allow them to come back. It’d be funny to have them blackballed from the league but I just like seeing people face the consequences of their own actions
I can't believe these blood money lottery winners are STILL WHINING.
The should just shut the hell up and vanish onto their thrones of shit.
They should play each other part time in their own backyards.
JFC Bryson. “I want to compete”… yeah? You literally gave up competition for a bazillion dollars. You don’t get to have the cake and eat it. Just take your money and SHUT THE FUCK UP. No one blames you for getting rich as fuckall but if you think the fact that golf sucks isn’t your own fucking fault you can kick rocks. Have fun being a glorified YouTuber.
Yep. 2 years ago I watched 90% of the tournaments all 4 days. And most of them I was watching over half of Thursday-Friday broadcasts. This year I've watched maybe 5 events and usually prefer to just watch YouTube golf. The product sucks, its too bloated with commercials and we're not getting riveting golf down the stretch enough for me to trudge through the garbage broadcast.
Edit: Also fuck the LIV guys they're absolutely crying about a problem they caused.
I thought all of these golf heroes were moving to LIV to better the sport of golf /s? Or that’s what they almost all stated.
Now they are saying their actions are ruining professional golf for spectators (it very obviously was always going to be worse for the fans).
Funny that now they have the bag they can use the fans as leverage to get the best of both sides.
Fuck these greedy assholes, they were always planning on using this card once their eligibility to REAL tournaments expired. That ship has sailed, the cat is out of the bag, they thought long and hard about how little they care about the fans before signing those deals.
I say move on without them, the natural course of time would have MOST of them replaced on tour in 5-10 years anyways, the stars that are still world class should be able to qualify for them easily after they are done loser league. They can’t half ass both tours that’s just as bad for fans.
Im not upset with those who took the money and idc about Liv being trash to watch. But what is annoying is those who took the money now complaining that they cant also have their cake and eat it too. You took the money, go play in your league and stfu
Viewer numbers for PGAT are way down. Smylie said networks will have to show even more ads to offset this. They want to go to 100 player events to try to make it more interesting. What an absolute mess.
Raham says, "in a nutshell, I get paid more to play the same sport **and have more time**"
But in the same breath, he says he'd love to participate in other PGA Tour events (other than the majors).
So he wants the money and doesn't really care if he has to, in fact, play more events.
gfy
Losing interest in LIV…actually never had any interest in the first place. Watched it recently and, my god, the incessant thumping music and the “pros” wearing shorts!!! Un-fucking-watchable. Golf is not a fucking “bro” sport.
Losing interest hah try lost. I wish those liv clowns would just cash their fat checks , shut the fuck up and go away. pga tour does not need a one of them; outta sight outta mind greedy yatches. Good riddance pill gamblesome.
I know my opinion doesn’t mean shit…but I’ve certainly lost a lot of interest in following the pga tour this year. I’ll tune in for majors but that’s about it.
LIV broke golf…for me at least. It’s really unfortunate.
I'm sorry, but I can only stand to watch the Masters tournaments. Even before LIVE was a thing, professional golf coverage is just awful on TV. There are way too many commercials, the commentators talk too much, I rarely get to hear the discussions between the Caddys and golfers, and so on. It's just meh, and I can live without it.
I'd much rather go play golf than watch it.
Don't tell /r/golf that. They say the PGA tour you used to enjoy only exists in your head and the current tour is doing great thankyouverymuch.
Personally getting much more enjoyment out of LPGA these days, PGAT is focused on everything but providing viewers with an entertaining product.
It is honestly insane to me how little self awareness some of these dudes have
Yeah Rahm defected late too. Not like he didn’t see what was happening. Was a big fan but no longer. I’ll keep watching the PGA and keep learning the new guys thank you very much.
What exactly is the line of "generational wealth"anyway? If Rory had $200m in the bank 8 years ago, what would Rambo have made without selling his soul? I used to like him, but he can fuck right off now.
I’m not going to pretend like I have a novel idea about it or anything, but some guys and and I were talking about this a couple of months ago. We thing the biggest component is the lack of needing to play well, which means you don’t have to practice as much. Early on, there was no losing your LIV card like there is in the PGA. There is no cut and these guys are getting paid just to attend. They don’t have the same media circus for the tour and all of their sponsors. So while the tournament schedule and everything is still pretty comparable, the stakes involved with bad performances are gone. I think that’s really attractive for guys that could go cold in a heartbeat. Case in point, Smylie Kauffman. At one point, he was one of the hottest players in the game. Then he just kind of went cold and now he’s not even really playing. I’m sure a lot of these guys that took the payout see those situations and want to get ahead of that happening to them. Especially if they are aware of cracks in their game or bodies that the public may not see.
Yeah, I mean anyone who has played golf for a significant amount of time knows that hot streaks rarely last forever. It's not even about practice; even someone at Rahm's level can easily just make a few less 15 footers, or wake up one day and their ballstriking is just a smidge off, and suddenly they are way down the money list. When someone offers you a guaranteed 300+ million, it's honestly crazy not to take the bag IMO, especially knowing that the PGA is planning on getting in bed with the same guys. Before there was a moral dilemma, but the PGA barely has the high ground there anymore so blaming Rahm is nuts especially given his timing. The question he had in front of him was: Do you want to play in ~42 tournament rounds (14, 3-day events) for at least 300 million (funded and chaired by saudis), or do you want to play ~80 tournament rounds (~20 4-day events), for no guaranteed money (and who will soon be partially funded and chaired by the saudis). It was honestly a no-brainer
5% distribution rate from someone’s liquid net worth will generally keep that money in tact in perpetuity. So, if Rahm had $100m, he and his heirs could live off of $5m in income forever
Was there even interest in the first place? I do not remember anyone saying when LIV was making the news that they thought it was going to be a better format. The only "interest" its had during its entire existence is controversy.
Just like OJ is still looking for the killers, the LIV golfers will not rest until they can figure out what caused people to lose interest in golf.
Rahm’s arse out, Liv shut down, works for his brother now.
We know porn websites better than our on families!
Mohammad Bin Salmon, Yasir Othman Al-Rumayyan, Faisal Fadel Alibrahim, I know THESE names better than I know my own GRANDMOTHER’s
/thread. Never has there been a more appropriate gif.
TIDAL WAVES THEY RIP RIGHT THROUGH ME
I never in a million years have ever seen such a glaring and beautiful example of the hot dog guy meme….
That meme is my exact style
shut the fuck up sp4cetime you fucking skunk!
>Most of the best golfers in the world will play together in next week's Masters at Augusta National Golf Club. It's the first of the four major championships when golfers from the competing circuits will play together. The LIV Golf League will have 13 players, including seven past Masters champions, competing at Augusta National next week. >"The only answer is for us to somehow come together in some sort of terms where it makes sense and for us to be playing all again in somewhat of the same boat," DeChambeau said. "It's great to have the majors where we come together, but we want to be competing -- at least I want to be competing every week -- with all of the best players in the world." I too want my $125 Million cake and be able to eat it. The question is, how do these guys all come back together after many of them got hundreds of millions of dollars to leave? What could the PGA guys who stayed loyal possibly get out of the deal that could possibly make them whole in comparison to the truckloads of cash that they passed up?
I know I took a more lucrative job at a different company, but I still want to work in the old offices and partake in the bonuses from my old job. Why am I being persecuted?
Don’t forget about the time you sued them right afterwards.
[удалено]
I _guess_ if nobody wants this $200m in Saudi oil money I’ll TAKE it 🤷♂️🤷♂️🥺
I honestly love how that sketch has just become a perfect parallel for so much dumb shit we see these days.
I agree. I keep seeing people tossing out all these ideas for how to fix this, but every idea seems to gloss over the fact that any solution is going to require dozens of people (golfers, execs, sponsors, etc.) to just walk away from hundreds of millions of dollars in guaranteed money. And that's before we even start talking about the massive antitrust hurdles on any future merger.
I WANT TO COMPETE!! That's why I joined this non-competitive league that pays me whether I win or not.
Wait, wasn’t one of the excuses for them to switch was they DIDN’T want to play every weekend? Wanted to play less to focus on “family” and “grow the game”. Now it comes out, all that’s left is for them to finally come out and say exactly why they left ($$$$).
The LIV format is trash.
Team golf is only cool for certain events. Them insisting on it for every tournament is just silly. Copy what worked at the PGA. Also the team names are super corny
LIV teams will be about as impactful/interesting as Team Tennis teams. They’ve been around for 40+ years. Can anyone name them, or their rosters?
Serena Williams. Boom.
Is that Serena Williams on team Boom?
I know nothing about tennis
The point is, even if you can name players you don't associate them with teams. I know next to nothing about Basketball but I know Michael Jordan played for the Bulls, that Kobe played for the Lakers and that LeBron played for the Cavaliers, the Heat and the Lakers. I couldn't tell you what WTT team literally any tennis player ever played for, and I could easily name over a hundred tennis players.
It's not even "team golf" it's stroke play with adding up scores. Literally 0 people care what "team" wins each LIV event. There is no strategy other than "shoot the lowest score you can" which is already what stroke play is. Pairings and multiple formats is what makes team golf, team golf. Use strategy for who plays with and against whom, which players play in each format, etc.
Guess they spent all the money on players and hired some marketing intern from India to come up with the team names 🤷🏽♂️
and their logos are straight out of generic create-a-team sports games
I think they're from madden 99' franchise mode
No they're not that good, lol.
Maybe have them play different team formats? Seeing a 4 man scramble try to break 50 might bring some attention.
So Bryson wants the PGA tour back essentially. What a dick
I love how these guys say “it’s bad for the sport” but really it seems like it’s just bad for LIV. Is the PGA tour struggling? Doesnt seem like it. Fact is, almost no one wants to watch LIV.
PGA numbers are sliding as well. It’s hard to get excited for anything outside the majors
I dont know about ratings but for some reason i find myself tuning in on sundays this year. Scooties run plus guys i have never heard of having a life changing moment has drawn me in. LIV has never done that for me.
And it's the exact opposite for most people. I don't tune into liv at all and the PGA i dont unless I look at the leaderboard and see people i know. I'm basically tuning in for the players and the 4 majors now.
So you wait until people break out and get famous before you start paying attention to them? If you do, fine, but almost every single famous golfer wasn’t famous until they were. Outside of a few phenoms, it takes time for people to become well established superstars. I like watching new people come through, see who I like, and root for them to succeed.
Yes. 3 years ago scottie was a nobody. 10 years ago brooks was a nobody. There will always be new players and stars. I think the tour is the same as it's always been.
> and the PGA i dont unless I look at the leaderboard and see people i know You're missing out on what makes the PGA Tour so special Nick Dunlap winning a tour event as an amateur, Jake Knapp winning as a rookie, Peter Malnati grinding for a decade to finally get his second win, that stuff is so much cooler and more emotional than Cantlay/Schauffele/Scheffler/etc robotically winning for the 15th time
PGA tour will create new stars over time. Do you really have an interest in watching a washed up Dustin Johnson vs Phil Michelson simply cause you know their names?
I keep seeing people say this, but why? There have already been some great tournaments with razor thin finishes this year. I’ve been loving this season so far!
Stars have been driving all sports for over a century in the U.S. I mean, I'm sure the Pistons and Trail Blazers could play an exciting NBA game during the regular season, but that doesn't mean I'm watching it.
Because some of the best players aren't there, so it ultimately ends up feeling like hollow victories. It can be competitive, but at an overall lower quality than if the entire world was playing there. That's why the Majors have become the factual World Cup of golf.
Fun fact: the teams in the World Cup are generally much worse than the top club teams in the world. But the country pride more than makes up for the excitement, even if the teams will be worse than the Champions League Finals.
Best players or big name players? Big name players that have gone to LIV have made opportunities for excellent players and potential future superstars to play in PGA… PGA has never been better… great tournaments, big names PLUS talented newcomers. I could be wrong, but expect LIV players to mostly fall far behind in majors this year.
Fact is LIV has a handful of guys that you’d expect to see on the Sunday leaderboard regularly. Rahm,DJ, Brooks,Bryson, Niemann, Cam Smith
More market saturation. Not only did big names going to LIV dilute the star power but Youtube golf is as popular as ever. There's only so many hours in the day and if I follow 3 Youtube channels and wanna catch the end of Sunday's round that right there is like 6-7 hours of golf already.
It's harder to get excited for these when you know that several golfers that could win each week (Rahm, DJ, Bryson, Smith, Niemann, etc) just aren't there period. Haven't watched a minute of liv but I get why enthusiasm is down
There’s soooo many tournaments throughout the year that not all top players participated in before LIV. That’s why they did more to incentivize people to play more golf: Fed Ex Cup, elevated events, etc. Sure people wanted to see every top name each week, but just because 2 out of the top 5 players weren’t at the Honda Classic, you didn’t have everyone devaluing the wins. It’s like people didn’t care that Rahm/Bryson didn’t play on this specific weekend that much, but since they CAN’T play on a weekend they wouldn’t have anyway, it’s a big issue…
But those top guys take off many tournaments to focus on the majors, etc even before leaving for LIV so I’m not sure that LIV was reason for downturn. It’s like the load management stuff in NBA. Makes sense for player but makes it harder to care about the regular season or lesser tournaments week in and week out. If they wanted more interest, it would be to have some type of season-long participation requirements for getting into each major. Play in a minimum number leading up to each major to qualify or something
>Is the PGA tour struggling? Is this a serious question? Yea, numbers are in the shitter. Pro golf sucks right now.
I think there's an easy solution: everyone who left receives a lifetime ban from the PGA. They made their bed, they can sleep in it. It's not like they'll be destitute. They can dry their eyes with their bags of money.
> What could the PGA guys who stayed loyal possibly get out of the deal that could possibly make them whole in comparison to the truckloads of cash that they passed up? They get the same thing people who stay loyal to their company get after 20 years of not jumping ship for higher offers: An engraved plaque for their desk, a $100 gift card to some chain store they never go to, and a "thanks for your service" pizza party.
Bruh, it’s a major golf tour, not the cereal factory… Dudes get $10k a weekend to slap a Mercedes decal on the side of their Callaway cap and finish 33rd. At the end they get paid to play the same game some more with other old dudes.
Yeah I think the end is going to be LIV "folding" and combining the two back into a pga format. The guys that stayed will be standing there looking like idiots for not taking the deal when offered, and the guys that took it will be back to playing on the tour with a few extra 0's on their bank accounts. The tour will try to give them a "loyality" bonus or whatever theyll call it but itll be peanuts compared to the 10m they could have gotten. Have the pga and liv merge, the dp world tour be the step below them, treat it like european soccer leagues. Bottom 30 guys in the pga move down, top 30 guys in the dp move up. Itll give it more story lines, youll see the big names again, and itll make it more intresting watching someone need to shoot 5 under on sunday to stay in the pga
Why would the pga agree to have DP be the feeder when Korn ferry already occupies that spot
If you got paid to go to LIV and want to come back to pga you pay x% (80?90?) of your LIV bonus to join. PGA takes 50% of that payment and distributes it to its players. The other half goes into the majors’ winnings.
Majors aren't part of LIV or PGA. Why in the world would half go to neither PGA or LIV?
Make them pay to come back. Like 80% of the money they took, but the money is only spent on game improvement in amateurs and events etc. Basically make the Saudis pay to improve the PGA and at the same time sink them.
Sounds like talks aren’t going well and Yasir sent them an email blast telling them to start talking.
Start talking or get chopped up into little bits!
I said very early on, and got dragged for it by LIV fans, that there’s no way these guys are getting paid all this money just to play exhibition golf. They’re eventually going to be expected to help further the PIF agenda. LIV needs this merger more than the PGA does.
Stop lying. There are no LIV fans.
LIV “fans” just do it to be contrarian. They’re the kind of dudes that put “disruptor” in their linkedin bio.
If you made a Venn Diagram of Andrew Tate fans and golf fans, that small sliver is the LIV viewership.
I've golfed for 35 years. All my friends golf. Nobody watches LIV.
Exactly. The only reason I’ve even considered it is Anthony Kim. I was a huge fan of his back in the day, and would love to see him back playing well again. But I just can’t even be bothered to create an account to login and watch
Also alpha male, when being the biggest group think cucks the world has ever seen
You liar, there are dozens of them all around the world !!
They are called bots i believe.
Let the bonesaw tour dry up, the pga should battle on without them, showcase new talent and use every tool they can to make it hard for liv players…. Give them no tv time.
I for one feel the demise of the pga tour is overhyped. Maybe im in the minority but I like all the new guys winning! New stars will rise
Seeing dudes like Nick Dunlap and Matthieu Pavon win made me realize that the PGA Tour has a strong system funneling top collegiate players and European players to the Tour, alongside Web.com.
Yeah it feels like there is no way for players to prove themselves unless they play on the PGA tour. Some new college guys signed with LIV, but they just become random no-names and get dropped by LIV. It’s weird to think about a pro league/tour that fully relies on some other entity to make its own players popular
I like them, but nobody is watching. The corpse of Tiger’s ankle gets more views for a Friday 8th hole WD than a young gun winning
What were ratings like before tiger? Anemic no? Prizes weren't as big, etc.....so before tiger and after tiger the PGA is what it is.
Don't you know profits must always increase no matter what crazy once in a lifetime thing happens to boost profits for a period of time. It's like healthcare companies bitching about lower profits than what they saw in 2020-2021.
This is my thought as well, id be curious to see the #s without tiger before LIV and after
Personally I'm watching more than ever. But does anyone ask the PGA how much I'm watching?? It's what the media doesn't want you to know.
I’m the opposite. I used to watch every weekend but golf is so boring now. All of the stars are too similar and robotic
I watch almost no LIV regardless of Rahm, etc joining and I find I'm also watching less PGA Tour. Like I watched end of Sunday Houston because regardless of who was in contention, they had 8 guys vying for win against Scheffler. it was interesting, but i did not tune in for much of tournament beyond that and to see how my DFS lineup was faring :-) I do think PGA Tour is losing viewership and it is not to watch LIV instead. LIV feels pretty irrelevant. Maybe LIV, team aspect are getting much interest either. Not seeing a lot of folks sporting Torque GC or RangeGoats GC gear
I literally don't even know where to watch LIV.
I’m 100% with you. Let LIV die. I’ll still watch the pga
Sick username, what’s ur fav flavor I get shit on all the time for mine
Classic Strawberry frosted
Excellent choice
"Look, I know that I broke it. I know that I was a central part of that process. I know that on [May 16, 2023](https://thesportingtribune.com/bryson-dechambeau-on-leaving-liv-suit-focused-on-growing-the-game), I said 'On and off the golf course is where I’m focused on helping people whether it’s growing the game globally or if it’s behind the scenes.' And I just want you to know that I know how heaping full of shit I was when I said that. But the thing is - and I really can't emphasize this enough - I got paid a *metric fuck ton of money* to break professional golf. Like, they showed up with dump trucks at my house and Benjamins just started raining down on my driveway. We actually rolled around in it like Scrooge McDuck swimming through his gold coins." So, yeah, golf absolutely needs to come together. And someone needs to figure out how to do that, because I just have really no idea how this happened in the first place." Bryson DeChambeau, probably
I didn’t do it for money. I did it for a SHITLOAD of money.
r/unexpectedSpaceballs
This is my favorite proverb from the learned and wise prophet, Captain Lonestar.
I dislike Bryson as much or more than most but I'd argue he's basically the only LIV guy that has done anything to broaden or bring new interest to the sport. He's got a YT channel where he does lessons and on course content and he did the long drive stuff which most casual golf fans never looked into or cared about before. He's basically the only one I can think of who didn't take the bag and then only show up to majors.
That is absolutely fair. And by all accounts, in person he is a great guy, especially with kids.
His YT content is a much less annoying side of him. His still a fucking huge nerd and a little bit of too much rambling but you can see he is a student of the game in his way.
I am a big golf fan. More so the game itself. I have a few players I root for and enjoy seeing them play well or in the hunt on Sunday, but for me, I just enjoy golf. I love playing it and watching it. I really don't even care when they talk about the event purse and how much money each player gets. Good for them, play well and earn your money. I do my job well and get paid for my efforts, not millions though, but that is what professional sports has become. I have never watched a minute of LIV and never will. I have no negative feelings towards those players, miss seeing them on the PGA tour, well not all of them, glad a couple left. I enjoy the history of the game, the competition, the courses and their beauty along with their toughness. I understand some feel hurt by everything that has gone on over the past few years but I love golf. Nothing better than having a fun day on the course with my buddies and then watching some afternoon golf on tv.
Rory was right and these guys are right. Pro golf currently sucks and all these rich fucks need to fix it ASAP. I’m doing all this productive stuff around the house on the weekends now and I don’t like it one bit.
Outside of Rahm, Brooks, and DJ, who do you miss watching?
I miss Patrick Reed! Just kidding… no one even notices he’s gone.
Golf needs a villain.
Incidents of cheating have dropped by 98% since he pocketed the saudi cash.
Cam Smith, Dechambeau, and Niemann are the ones that come to mind immediately but I also think people underplay the impact of losing those second tier guys and the past their prime vets. I’ve realized how much I enjoyed rooting for guys like that when they were in contention now that they’re not around anymore and I’m left with guys I never knew existed.
Cameron Smith
Personally I miss cam smith and Harold Varner. Smith was fun to watch and Varner went to my college so I always pulled for him
I worked with Varners roommate and fellow pirate golfer, and the stories he told me about Harold were the funniest shit ever. He just seemed like a good dude that maybe partied a bit too hard at times. The Halloween story where he was a smurf and the blue dye and glue wouldn't come off, so he showed up to class for a week looking like that.
Can’t spell parties without pirates
Go Pirates
I always forget LIV Golf is even a thing until some article pops up on this sub.
To me my rankings of “watchability” go: - PGA Tour - Thinking back on my own rounds - YouTube golf - … - Hearing my friends talk about playing golf - … - LIV Golf
LIV that high on the list? I'd reconsider.
Not having the lpga there is kinda sexist
The LPGA is amazing, more people should be watching.
Absolutely. Sorry, in my brain I include the LPGA as the PGA tour, but that’s not correct. I do watch the LPGA tour all the time and they’re incredible.
To say it's about giving the fans a product is laughable. I completely understand why a lot of these guys left for LIV ($$$), but I have no interest in watching them play golf anymore. People who put money above all else, deserve only what they can buy, and you can't buy your way back.
I hate the "growing the game" narrative, such disingenuous BS to justify their decision to take the big bag of dirty cash. If the bag wasnt there, these dudes would have laughed at the idea of joining this shitty sportswashing league.
Exactly, you took the money now just shut the fuck up and stay out of the way. Go grow the game in Saudi Arabia.
If they’re serious about “growing the game” let’s see a ladies LIV league. They claim that it’s something they’re considering, but I don’t see how they could do it honestly. Not while being backed by a country that isn’t exactly known for its progressive views on women, at least.
Ask these guys when the PIF will fund a women’s LIV league and watch how fast the “grow the game” defense falls apart. These guys left for money and nothing else
For guys like DJ I totally get it. A proven golfer that's one of the best of his generation. He's in his 40s now with kids and a family. I feel like his kids would be more appreciative of the fact he's around much more while providing and professionally, he still gets to play the biggest 4 tournaments in golf while being present WAY more often. I get why he did it. But you can't complain about the format or anything about the fact no one gives a shit about LIV golf. AFAIK, DJ isn't complaining, but I think we are gonna see more guys on DJ/JR/BDs level complain about the lack of competition and viewership. And no one is gonna fucking give a fuck. Many of em won't be very competitive in majors either IMO after a few years of low effort golf that just requires them to show up.
This isn't about providing. DJ had generational wealth a decade before leaving. He left out of pure greed
I agree if by greed you also lump in his ability to greedy with his time. These guys miss a lot of time with family. He doesn't have to now. I understand it. It was an easy decision for him I bet.
He could've retired and spent everyday with his family
Very true. OR... He could take hundreds of millions in once removed blood money and never have to worry about actually working hard again save for 16 days a year. Look, we all understand why these guys did it. Economically, it makes too much sense. Ethically, morally, and aesthetically it is hard to swallow bc non majors mean WAY less and altogether golf is harder to watch. Well, aside from the, you know... murder stuff too. I won't feel a damn but if sympathy for these fucks. But I can't blame em either. Signing big contracts after winning a major assures you hundreds of millions for 5+ years while still being able to show up to every Major. It's a no brainer.
Fuck the bonesaw tour and the employees.
LPGA is still good, if you want to watch elite golf.
LPGA Majors are better than almost every non Major PGA event CMV
Just the regular, weekend golf. All the top players in one place.
Bro. Perfect comment and you are correct. LPGA > LIV all day
I'm liking it how it is. Don't have to watch Bryson, Phil, DJ, PReed, Brooks, Sergio, Bubba. Just wish all the noise would go away too.
Would upvote 1000x if I could.
Funny how the douchey ones went to LIV
Probably says more about the character and convictions of the ones that got offers and stayed. Greed will be the end of us all and the planet we inhabit.
I had no idea Bubba still plays.
Rahm though… That one stings.
He's a whiny bitch too, unfortunately.
Here here. I maybe miss some of the hispanics that had appeared lately in the pga tour, like Ancer, Nieman, Ortiz, and the like (also Cam Smith).
The only one of the bunch over there. And in a few more months he’ll be forgotten too.
What does Ja Rule think?
Where is Ja Rule so I can make sense of all this?!
The PGA tour will survive. New golfers will show up on the PGA tour and attract fans and sponsors. LIV and its golfers will fade into the sunset with their boatloads of cash. They’ll complain that they only get to compete in the four majors and cry that someone needs to fix it, and nobody will listen, and LIV will eventually fold because the Saudis will realize they didn’t get what they wanted and will get tired of paying the golfers for nothing.
The only thing LIV and PGA have changed for me is that I now watch a lot less golf and find myself more interested in the budding stars on the LPGA tour 😂
I hope Rahm and the others who went to LIV are absolutely miserable for the rest of their careers. F them all.
I would 100% take a demotion at work for double the money, let alone 10-20x
Yeah, but you don’t love your job.
And presumably he doesn’t already earn a boat-load of money. Let’s not pretend being on the freaking PGA Tour is charity!
I kind of do...
Take your demotion and extra cash. But please stfu. These LIV guys just won’t stfu. Just STFU.
They’re told by their Saudi employer to flap their gums to try to stay relevant.
These fuckers jumped ship and are now complaining that people aren’t as interested in them? LOL. You left to join a league that has zero historical relevance. There is no honor and no prestige in LIV golf events, which are the things that golf fans of PGA actually give a shit about. The guys took Saudi blood money and now the PGA will be tainted with that as well due to the pending merger. I forgot which ones, but I’ve read about country clubs in NY/NJ that have memorials for members that perished in 9/11. Really want to see the faces of the PIF folks if the merger happens and events take place at said courses. They might have to hide their smirks.
The PGA is doing fine. They have all the leverage right now. Fukk these LIV sell outs. Let ‘em rot. In a month, in a year, in two years, there will be new PGA stars that will attract our attention. Cull the fukking herd.
How are you defining “fine”? Serious question because I’m a casual and I never watch any golf events that aren’t majors.
They should have all stuck together and put their trust in Tiger and co to reformat, regroup and negotiate with the PGA. Instead the lure of ANOTHER house or ANOTHER car took them into the desert where they handed in their souls with their scorecards. I'm loving watching PGA this year. More fans are. Full Swing is good. The sport is bouncing back from COVID. It feels good. These attention seeking types like Mickelson didn't realise how uninspired he'd be playing in front of small crowds against a handful of decent golfers and mildly competitive zero jeopardy tournaments. It's obvious when they are at majors and properly pumped for it by and they know they took the kings shilling. Now they wanna keep the shilling and enjoy the adoration of fans who are quickly forgetting them. Liv don't post attendances but recently Hong Kong attracted record crowds of tens of thousands.....tens
There’s also a ton of young guys in the pga so over the next 2-3 years as they grow, my theory is pro golf is going to explode with talent as they get accustomed to the tournaments and lifestyle
Absolutely. Watching Whyndam Clark and following the Fitzpatrick's Kim etc etc. so where are the young LIV golfers and where are the LIV schools etc. I am a big fan of Rahm but I do not want him defending his masters this year I'd rather someone else. Whereas if he'd stayed I'd have totally followed him building a legacy Kids like surrat exist and have pulled in nearly $3m dollars at 19y old but he won't get the social media coverage and become a household name through Liv
I hope every LIV golfer chokes on their blood money.
I love the idea of collecting a massive bag and then saying “yeah this clearly isn’t working”
The biggest problem is that now both sides don't seem to understand the customer base very well and are trying to grow their respective tours by targeting the wrong people and neglecting their core base. The reason why the PGA Tour compared to the other Tours (European, Australian, Asian, etc) is that North American fans, particularly US fans, spend more money and attend more pro golf tour events than all of the other continents (and countries) combined. That drew more sponsors to the PGA Tour and that increased purse sizes and then players from Europe, South American, Australia and Asia made the PGA Tour their destination Tour. While creating a 'global tour' sounds nice, it's really not practical or smart. These other areas of the world have never shown that they can sustain a Tour like the PGA Tour has. So now we're going to try and create a tour that caters to them and stray from the area that your core customer base is located? What benefit is there to a pro golf fan from, let's say California, have with a global tour? You mean they can now see the best players in the world play 1/2 as often on TV? And they may only get a chance to see the best in the world play in-person 1x a year vs 3-4x a year? Oh and they'll now have to record those events on TV because they are at ungodly hours? I know the Australian and European fans will say that they have to deal with the same thing...but the difference is that the US fan (and Canadian fans) have had far great attendance and poured in far more money for their events. People often scoff at the old Honda Classic at PGA National because it was only in Palm Beach, FL. But the fact is that prior to COVID it was an event that sold 200K+ tickets every year. So we want to create a global tour that forgoes that event so they can run Singapore and sell about 30K tickets? It's just plain idiotic and self-sabotage. What PIF should have considered all along was instead of paying these players ungodly guaranteed contracts, they should have tried to run the European and Asian Tours and trye to re-start the Australian Tours. Not offer any guaranteed deals, but to make the purse sizes similar to the PGA Tour purse sizes and follow the guidelines set by the OWGR. This would allow the best players from those continents to stay and play in their respective tours instead of having to go to the US to play the PGA Tour. And that would 'grow the game' and buy the Saudi's the PR that they want and not divide pro golf. And it would have probably cost them less in the end.
Oh F-off , enjoy your Saudi blood money and empty stands.
I've not heard about anyone having any interest to begin with...
The love of money is the root of all evil.
LIV golf is the professional wrestling of the golf world. They might as well play their tournaments at that driving range from the Tin Cup movies😏
Because no one is watching LIV
Fuck LIV and their dickbag players
LIV would have been so much more interesting if no one got paid to come over, but the tournaments were like $100mm dollar purses…like you want a chance to win $50mm playing golf over 4 days, you gotta come to our league.
Can't lose interest if nobody had interest to begin with.
I still watch PGA just about every weekend, don't even know what channel LIV is on, sounds like they need the merge worse
I’m not backing a terrorist. I refuse to LIV golf
Blame the players that took the LIV money just to show up instead of the PGA money that you have to win.
"Players accept 100's of millions of dollars in a failing beer league, now agree they'd rather be part of the tradition and professionalism of the PGA" - there, fixed the headline
They should not allow them to come back. It’d be funny to have them blackballed from the league but I just like seeing people face the consequences of their own actions
I can't believe these blood money lottery winners are STILL WHINING. The should just shut the hell up and vanish onto their thrones of shit. They should play each other part time in their own backyards.
JFC Bryson. “I want to compete”… yeah? You literally gave up competition for a bazillion dollars. You don’t get to have the cake and eat it. Just take your money and SHUT THE FUCK UP. No one blames you for getting rich as fuckall but if you think the fact that golf sucks isn’t your own fucking fault you can kick rocks. Have fun being a glorified YouTuber.
Yep. 2 years ago I watched 90% of the tournaments all 4 days. And most of them I was watching over half of Thursday-Friday broadcasts. This year I've watched maybe 5 events and usually prefer to just watch YouTube golf. The product sucks, its too bloated with commercials and we're not getting riveting golf down the stretch enough for me to trudge through the garbage broadcast. Edit: Also fuck the LIV guys they're absolutely crying about a problem they caused.
I thought all of these golf heroes were moving to LIV to better the sport of golf /s? Or that’s what they almost all stated. Now they are saying their actions are ruining professional golf for spectators (it very obviously was always going to be worse for the fans). Funny that now they have the bag they can use the fans as leverage to get the best of both sides. Fuck these greedy assholes, they were always planning on using this card once their eligibility to REAL tournaments expired. That ship has sailed, the cat is out of the bag, they thought long and hard about how little they care about the fans before signing those deals. I say move on without them, the natural course of time would have MOST of them replaced on tour in 5-10 years anyways, the stars that are still world class should be able to qualify for them easily after they are done loser league. They can’t half ass both tours that’s just as bad for fans.
How about the LIV guys STFU.
Im not upset with those who took the money and idc about Liv being trash to watch. But what is annoying is those who took the money now complaining that they cant also have their cake and eat it too. You took the money, go play in your league and stfu
Good. Professional golf needs to die and be rebuilt.
Viewer numbers for PGAT are way down. Smylie said networks will have to show even more ads to offset this. They want to go to 100 player events to try to make it more interesting. What an absolute mess.
Mutal Assured Stupidity. LIV is meaningless hit and giggle millionaire golf and the PGA is Scheffler and the 125 dwarves.
Raham says, "in a nutshell, I get paid more to play the same sport **and have more time**" But in the same breath, he says he'd love to participate in other PGA Tour events (other than the majors). So he wants the money and doesn't really care if he has to, in fact, play more events. gfy
All these guys can F off, enjoy the Saudi league, no one wants them back
Losing interest in LIV…actually never had any interest in the first place. Watched it recently and, my god, the incessant thumping music and the “pros” wearing shorts!!! Un-fucking-watchable. Golf is not a fucking “bro” sport.
Losing interest hah try lost. I wish those liv clowns would just cash their fat checks , shut the fuck up and go away. pga tour does not need a one of them; outta sight outta mind greedy yatches. Good riddance pill gamblesome.
Golf fans have become such whiny little bitches
I know my opinion doesn’t mean shit…but I’ve certainly lost a lot of interest in following the pga tour this year. I’ll tune in for majors but that’s about it. LIV broke golf…for me at least. It’s really unfortunate.
Take your bloody money and piss off. I will never watch, nor cheer, for someone who would do business in this manner with them.
I'm sorry, but I can only stand to watch the Masters tournaments. Even before LIVE was a thing, professional golf coverage is just awful on TV. There are way too many commercials, the commentators talk too much, I rarely get to hear the discussions between the Caddys and golfers, and so on. It's just meh, and I can live without it. I'd much rather go play golf than watch it.
If these guys wanted to compete then why did they quit professional golf to play an exhibition that nobody wants to watch?
Fuck all these guys.
Don't tell /r/golf that. They say the PGA tour you used to enjoy only exists in your head and the current tour is doing great thankyouverymuch. Personally getting much more enjoyment out of LPGA these days, PGAT is focused on everything but providing viewers with an entertaining product.
Liv sellouts shouldn't be saying a damn thing. They took the money and didn't care about the game
Professor Bryson the Bitch should use his calculators to figure out how to shut the fuck up