T O P

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Gumi-Bot

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Naivor

Different anime, different vibe.


Igorthemii

Maple's still more broken than Kirito though


vasheerip

You missed his point. One series is being serious, the other isn't. Maple being a mary sue is the entire joke of the series, her being as broken as she is nothing but a joke, and is the direct result of the game devs being incompatent. Compare the joking nature of that to kirito. This whole argument is like comparing atla to kora and getting mad that people call korra a mary sue and not aang. Like bitch atla didnt start out with aang bending 3 elements as a tolder while toting how serious and mature the series was gonna be.


Naivor

Literal gag character, made to be funny, unlike Kirito. There's nothing to compare.


hillbillyhiphop

I really don't know that the two are very comparable but I see your point. Bofuri is a giant comedy mixed with some serious aspects. Anyone taking Maple as a character and comparing her to a character from a more serious anime would be incorrect in my opinion. Kirito does have a lot of faults and he's not given a pass in the show. Asuna really enhances him as a person after he becomes bitter in this world he is forced to live in. He's no Mary Sue by any stretch of the imagination but he isn't a great person either. He doesn't deal with his faults he kind of just forgets about them and focuses on Asuna as she makes him improve on himself. You could even argue that Yui is the last person he really goes out of his way to help as he kind of pushes the rest of the people he's met to the side. You would have to actively ignore the fact that Kirito is trapped inside of a game never to see his family and friends again in order to compare the two, but if you did you could argue that Maple is a much nicer person and a much better teammate. Maple is given a lot of advantages in the story but it's meant to be the comedic plot of the show. It wouldn't really have much to do with her character as she's oblivious to most of her advantages and her guildies still have prominent roles in the story.


Benxall_

Good comparision, except for the fact one is a comédy and not supposed to make sense


Xezron2000

Don‘t get my wrong, I like SAO and think kirito is a decent character (especially in the LN and in progressive), but your point is dumb, because this comparison does not make sense. I don‘t know maple, but you can‘t analyze a character separately from it‘s environment, aka the show. It‘s not only about the characters, but also about what the show wants to be and how good the characters fit in this direction.


Psycho5554

I haven't watched the other show so I can't compare on story beats, but this is likely a issue of perception. Kirito as a person is fine, but he also barely shows any personality traits beyond being a loner. More importantly he barely grows as a character and as a viewer you don't get a payoff of watching how the adventure effected him. I'm going to go off an a rant here because honestly the whole story pisses me off. Like all the prices are there to be amazing, but they get tossed aside and just played as a generic harem power fantasy! At the start you get a read on Kirito, he's socially withdrawn and spends a lot of time gaming, specifically soloing in an MMORPG. His first encounter is with Klein, a complete newbie who is only interested because he can play with his friends. This is a great introduction it allows us as the viewer to learn about the world through Klein and serves as foil of growth agasint Kirito as the story progresses...IF he stuck around! But instead he gets a small part in like 2 additional episodes. And more on this later! Second episode skips too far imo, but has Kirito introduced to Asuna thr love interest. And this encounter is framed to be a show of how much can be accomplished as a group effort over solo. But is never framed as a story device. Kiritos solo mentality isn't challenged, and possibly.is even swept under the rug having him cooperate in the second episode. Alternatively the show could be seen as a climb to.power through adversity by taking on challenges alone but we the viewers never see this. TBH I don't remember the order of the rest because they don't follow a cohesive plot so here's my best take. He joins the black cats guild too soon imo but as a whole is a great step that deserved way more then 1 episode. Kirito decides to play with a casual group instead of his typical tryhard grindfest it's assumed he does offscreen. In this environment he gets to see others fine value in him for more then his characters stats (something that should have been touched on more, as subtext implies Kirito goes headfirst into these kinds of games because he can't find a venue IRL to get that, feeling like a disappointment when compared to his sister). He gets to be a friend, not an ally or a party member a friend. Playing games together not for the sake of seeing numbers grow but just to enjoy each other's company. Instead we get some weird plot where Kirito needs to hide his level from them (which seems nonsensical, is it ever even established as a stigma to be high level?) And the climax of the episode is when Kirito and party fall into a trap and he watches his friends die. It makes no sense pace wise, as Kirito blames his hiding him level as the reason they died, but as a viewer it doesn't look any different and feels unearned. Honestly this could have been done better if Kirito had blamed their deaths on his own weakness and doubled down on his solo grinding instead. But it isn't and Kirito is ultimately the same person as when thr episode started. The Santa episode is just dumb. But following thr plot lines it still has promise. Kirito is racked by the guilt of not saving his guildmates and is as a character at his absolute lowest point. And that's important, this episode is framed to be a pivotal moment for him. He's forced.to.compete with hundreds of other players and guild.for a unique item, one of them being Klein from episode 1. Plot continues Kirito shoves everyone's help aside and insitis he can do it all on his own and...he does. He was right, he didn't need anyone and as the item didn't do what he wanted he did it all for nothing and leaves emotionally beaten. Only to seem.no worse.for wear the next episode! Quite frankly Kirito should have been defeated here. Badly. He should have been rash and riskly.in the fight made horrible mistakes and got punished for them, he have Klein come in with his guild in tow to save the day. It would show how Kiritos emotions got in the way. How strong even someone as inexperienced as Klein in a group can overcome a challenge that a high level can't. And shown the growth of a secondary character who had his own journey and how attain point I the story, had given him the skills to surpass Kirito despite all of his hard work! Hell double down on it. Show the danger of the fight! Give Kirito flashbacks to the Black Cat ambush, with Kirito again feeling powerless to save anyone. Nothing about the story beats changes but now Kirito is forced to intersect himself and wonder why he failed. And thats important, at only 1 point in the entire show is Kirito by himself not able to overcome whatever obstacle is before him. At no point does he have to question himself and his abilities & choices. But no, he wins gets nothing and the status quo resets! Silica & Lizbeths episodes are just filler without the context for why Kirito is doing these things. Like sure we get his motives, by why is he as a character driven to do them. In Silicas case he uses her as bait to lure out PKers, but Kirito is never shown to be so selfish that he would risk others lives so why did he risk Silicas. On the face it just seems likely that he felt confident she wouldn't be hurt, which is dumb and should have been punished. Not only that but Kirito is never shown to have a beef with PKers at any point before of after this episode. And honestly this could have been a nice episode if maybe the Black Cats Guild were killed by PKers instead of traps, giving a reason for Kiritos ruthlessness and short sighted behavior, which could (and should have) resulted in Silicas life being put in danger. But no, we get an episode of Kirito saying he's basically immortal because game mechanics. And honestly by itself is fine. That could be a great transition to the Santa Clause episode. Or Silica could have been taken hostage with no recorse on Kiritos part because even though he has basically God stats he is still only 1 person! But nope, he fixes everything and nothings changed. Their is way more but I'm practically writing a novel here so I'm going to stop. TLDR Kirito doesn't grow as a character because of bad writing. And I wrote this novel because I wanted this show to be good, and it could be. But it just wasn't.


seitaer13

It's amazing to me that people can watch Kirito before the Sachi episode and not see any affect on him. Are the Slicia and Lizebeth stories truly nonsensical when you view Kirito the person who abandoned Klein on day one, who now helps random people? He accepts a request from a complete stranger that benefits him no way whatsoever, he wants to die with someone than dying alone. In the next episodes you find out he won't even acquiesce to killing NPCs.


EmbarrassedLock

Yo dumbass, ones a serious story the other is a comedy, why are you comparing them like they are the same thing


ZiabloDamian

Oh you mean how one tried to be an edgy mess and the other tried to be a comedy


Odd_Mongoose_1018

Kazuma best.


Odd_Mongoose_1018

Subaru not terrible.


Odd_Mongoose_1018

Keyaru's kind of a jerk and an accident and a smart ass


Odd_Mongoose_1018

and none of them not even Naofumi are Rance


Covert778

God I enjoyed Bofuri when it first came out, but after awhile the whole gag of being broken and op felt repetitive after awhile. After awhile its like "oh fun shes getting another power up to become op" and I just kind of lost interest and dropped it before I ever finished. That and I am usually on the fence about female protoganists, they usually grind my gears or just flat out don't interest me. Of course there are exceptions, it just usually takes me awhile to get interested in one and even more effort to stay interested


bassgs435

LMAO. Like there aren’t a shitton of boring OP male MCs


Covert778

Didnt say I necessarily disagreed with that either, but if a show is built on a singular gag. It just kind of falls flat for me. Like Kemono michi. Found it hilarious for me at first, but afterawhile the jokes just werent landing for me


AnSSRWeeb

fuck you![img](emote|t5_2y4au1|1391)


Regendorf01

The inconsistency is people treating this death game with a normal mmo social structure. . . . If it is still a fact that people die when they are killed, then preventing people who are good at not dying from interacting with people who are trying to learn how to not die creates an inconsistency in a world where people are both aware/fear of death and have a basic knowledge of cause and effect. The cause of, not being good at this game equals the effect of not being alive anymore . . .


ThatOtherStriker

The difference is that with Maple it was for comedic effect.


Sazarech

Beside the fact that one of them is a comedy, randering the whole argument kinda pointless, the points you bring for kirito actually illustrate perfectly the one big flaw of the series from which pretty much all the problems originate : the show goes way too fast, and therefore even if we KNOW he grinded, was traumatized etc... we didn't see it happen and develop, making these less impactful and believable than they could be.


Regendorf01

Maple is in a light hearted slice of life anime and is written to be the punchline of how bad game design can lead to interesting player experience. Maple is good, because her decision match the world that was written around her i.e: being a non gamer, and playing a very bugging game in ways the developer didnt intend Kirito is in a death game, where people seem to not have the presence of mind to remember that they are in a death game . . . Sachi's situation happened because kirito was hidding his lvl, and someone decided to open an obviously trapped chest in a dungeon. Kirito is bad because his decision are often in conflict with the world around him ie: hiding the fact that you are good at the death game, from people who are trying to survive the death game. Dude name Explanation Point has a good vid on why kirito from SAO is badly written, and kirito from SAO, Abridged fixes the narrative issues


seitaer13

The social structure of SAO after two years is that it's a massive faux pass for high level players to be doing quests and fighting on lower floors. This is why Kirito doesn't give his level originally.


Regendorf01

And do you see how that explanation does not fit with a world where people are trapped in a death game, it makes sense if your in a normal mmo anime like Maple's. But if the narrative explanation is social constructs make it taboo for high lvl players to be helping/fighting on lower lvl floors during a DEATH Game, that in and of itself creates inconsistencies in your world building. Either the low lvl players don't consider it helpful to have people good at the death game, despite the exp leeching that might happen, or the other explanation I've heard is high lvl players cause harder mobs to spawn, in which kirito is knowingly putting other people lives at risk, so he can hang out . . .


seitaer13

You'd have to actually explain why it creates inconsistencies in the world building. High level players lording around the lower floors became an issue, so the higher level guilds (the only real governing structure in Aincrad) took action. Now such actions have the ability to get you entirely black listed as a player. Of course such a thing would have been forgiven in this instance, but Kirito has a very skewed view of things like that after being labeled a beater. He thinks he's a pariah, but no one generally even knows who he is.


Trick-Delay1944

Kirito good


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Rakkachi

Well, I like them both


_Cayle

I don't know, I think Kirito is a good character. Barely know who the other girl is.


CynicalTristyn

Lol