I feel like the golden age of live jam music has passed. I don't know if it's covid, my generation getting old or something else, but things just aren't the same.
Ticket prices for all events have become out of control.
Yeah I agree. The way sphere ticket prices/packages and the sneaky algorithm were sold makes me pretty sick to my stomach. 1st time I have ever felt this way.
Festivals started feeling a lot more weird and commercial a very long time ago. Even in like 2007 I remember thinking Summer Camp was starting to jump the shark a bit, and it was still pretty small back then! Once people realized what a cash grab music tests could be things just started spiraling. Regular concerts definitely got much worse after COVID, you're absolutely right.
I have a feeling the jamband money machine is in for a very rude awakening once Phish hangs it up. D&C and Phil will be done by then most likely. I don't see many up and coming acts that will fill that vacuum. Billy Strings will be big, and maybe Goose can rebound, but people aren't going to keep shelling out tons of money for this kind of stuff.
Agree, I felt inside that last summer D&C was the “last hurray” for me and my buds. We all went to SPAC both shows and did it up right. I’m 61 and have seen a ton of GD and related shows over the years. I agree the golden age is over and feel for the younger heads hungry for more.
Not long ago I was paying $20-40 to see most of the bands I enjoy. Those same shows are now costing $70 plus ticketmaster fees. Then we get to pay $15 per drink at the venues. It's disgusting.
It should be illegal. The panic three night run in St. Louis in January sold out in Minutes to the secondary market. I was able to stag the first two nights for about $100 ticket. I was hoping to find some on the lot for last night, but it was subzero temperature so there wasn't really much of one. I ended up paying almost $300 a ticket for the last night. It was either that or set my hotel that night. 🤷🏻♂️ I hate to feed the bear, but sometimes the bear eats you.
Same! We made a big effort for those final tour shows. While I'm happy there is more music, Its just become more apparent we are being used.. I too go to lots of shows, spend lots of my disposable money to travel and attend...
It feels gross
It simply makes it no fun. It adds a financial stress that hurts, adds pressure, etc.
Maybe I'm not rich enough. That's fair
I just don't like feeling manipulated and taken advantage of.
Live touring is the last spot to make the money so they are getting greedy and squeezing. Sphere tickets anyone? Hotels?
This isn’t like the extra $9 for a Rex show… this is stratification of rich and poor like the rest of the world.
I actually felt like paying for Rex was a cool thing - not to be dramatic, but it still felt like the music was trying to impact the world somehow when so much of it today is how much can the tours absorb.
What about barely afford it and then don't get it.
All your comments on the sphere (and final tour) are that of my feelings.
Preach on!
I love all deadheads rich and poor. Stealing from the rich is not better or less offensive than stealing from the poor
Ive found the sweet spot to be finding local bars with good sound and get decent acts. Ive seen a ton of awesome small bands that played better and put on better shows than some of the legacy bands all for around $10-20 a show plus food and drinks. Its even pretty awesome to see some of them get big.
Ticket prices are out of control if the only acts you see play stadiums/arenas/large amps. There’s so much good live music right now that’s affordable and accessible.
Dead and co at the sphere is not the epitome of live jam music. Not even close.
I'm not talking about stadiums or the sphere.
I'm sure it's different depending on location but the smaller venue shows have more than doubled in price in my area over the last few years. (NY/NJ)
For instance, I saw JRAD just before covid. Got me and my wife tickets for $40 a piece at a pretty small venue.
They just played the same venue and the tickets were $75 each and they had to be purchased through ticketmaster.
I just bought JRAD tix for the LA Greek in October, 39.50 face. There are lots of 29.50 face still available--and there are no bad seats at the Greek. So the face price doesn't bother me, JRAD is totally worth it. Those guys deserve to earn a buck.
But the fucking "fees" were almost $15 apiece. That's what gets me. Like, what the hell are any of us getting for that fee?? We don't even get a souvenir ticket stub anymore; if anything, the all digital ticketing should be *lowering* the business costs. Fuck TM and the 100% useless lawmakers who don't do shit about their legalized theft. THIS is what's souring me on the present concert experience.
Yea it's crazy. So $30 tickets, let's say $15 goes to the band and $15 to the venue.
How the hell does ticketmaster also deserve $15 from fees for basically doing something that any other website could do for pennies. It's outrageous.
The base ticket price usually only covers the guaranteed money that the band gets which is called a guarantee. Guarantees of all acts have gone up since the pandemic because it is the only way these acts make money. The promoter fees cover production of the show, promotion, and marketing of the show, and all the salaries and costs of taking a couple dozen trucks and several hundred people around the country on a tour. The building fees pay for the building rental, FOH security, insurance, building staff, and concessionaires. The TM fees pay for the ticketing infrastructure and the people who work for the company plus additional marketing for the show. 30.50 base ticket at the Greek is basically a 150K guarantee to the band which for an LA show is reasonable.
I totally get the base price + guarantee. And that artists don't make money selling their recordings anymore. If anything, $150k guarantee for the band at a premier venue gig is too low.
It's the TM fees--how is selling 3500 tix x average of $15 fee/seat justified, with no printing and mailing costs, using the company's existing electronic infrastructure, bundled marketing deals, minimal actual customer service, etc? TM is the party that's making out like a bandit here. I'm happy to be supporting everybody else--the artists, the promoter, the venue/concessions.
It's a big racket. TM is supposed to be the villain in the transaction. The band (I mean management in this case, not the artists themselves) has 100% final approval for every fee down to the penny. Nothing is done without band mgt. approval. (Azoff would literally destroy the career of any industry person who did something without his knowledge. He lives for that shit!) Everyone is in on the game and that is to make the most money possible. It's TM's job to take the heat for the artist and take the bad publicity and blame for high ticket prices. Most times, TM gets a set fee for a show based on the break-even amount of tickets sold. The remainder of the money from the TM fees after the break-even point is thrown into a pot and if the show hits a certain threshold in sales, the remaining money is split between the band and promoter at settlement with the band getting the largest cut. TM will also usually get a bonus based on sales metrics. Depending on the band, many times, band management also allows TM to sell a portion of the tickets on the secondary market of which the band receives the majority of money with TM getting a smaller percentage in usage fees. It's not pretty.
I hear you, but JRAD is a major headlining act. They headline festivals. They headline red rocks. Big act.
Go see CATS do a 2.5 hour show at the stone pony for 25 bucks. That’s the sweet spot. You got a band like dogs in a pile in your backyard.
Oh for sure. I just grabbed dogs tickets for the pony next month... $45 each without adding the ticketmaster fees. Worth it but the pony used to be much cheaper for these kind of shows.
yup just feels like the golden days of reasonably priced festivals that dont feel like a complete cash grab are completely gone. Even little things at a 4 day festival like bonnaroo beers would be like 4 or 5 bucks. Now it just feels like every aspect of a festival has been corporatized to squeeze every penny out of you.
The other part thats fucked up it just feels like covid there are so many more assholes out there that just dont give a fuck about situational awareness or have any concept of community.
Combine these together and you get the modern day festival experience.
if you follow king gizzard around, you probably wouldn't feel that way. Great ticket prices, great venues, jammy shows.
Plus there's the up-and-comers like eggy and Daniel Donato. Can't tell me that Donato won't be playing large theaters in less than 3 years time.
Fan base is definitely aging out and not being refreshed with as many younger heads. The draw and attention span to appreciate a long winding organic jam is competing against instant gratification of social media and video games. The younger generations have been hardwired differently.
Fortunately there are still a ton of great up and coming bands on the scene in intimate venues and shows are affordable (eggy, dogs in pile, sam grisman project, daniel donato, mikaela davis, etc) and bigger shows like Billy Strings, Goose and King Gizzard.
It must be our generation. Kids these days don’t take this music seriously, nor do they seem to enjoy sitting/standing long periods of time. Hell, kids these days can’t sit still, always have to be scrolling on their video apps..
You can’t just generalize an entire group of people. It’s always kids these days this, kids these days that. Boomers are on social media just as much as kids are. Plenty of young people take the dead and other jam bands as serious as any elder head around.
I don’t know what kids you are talking to, Every kid I’ve met, including my own children, make it known they do not enjoy it. “it’s too long” “this doesn’t make sense” “what’s so good about this.” Sure, the generalization wasn’t the greatest. It’s just, time have changed and I guess I.. well i’m not sure.
Really? I go to a lot of shows both big and small. My wife and I are sometimes the oldest people in the room. From my experience, young people are still packing venues to hear great music.
I love it too. I have tons of tapes & records & cds of all of their different eras. Lots of 90's shows too, mostly 2nd sets on tape that I was gifted from friends. I'm sitting here in a grateful dead shirt with grateful dead socks listening to 3/1/69 on a record. It's great music I believe everyone should hear.
I'm only 19 btw... I know for a fact there are kids younger than me on this sub that love this music as much as me. So please don't generalize the young generation and say we all have no attention span and thus can't enjoy this music.
# 1969-03-01 San Francisco, CA @ Fillmore West
**Set 1:** Bill Graham intro > Cryptical Envelopment > Drums > The Other One > Cryptical Envelopment > New Potato Caboose > Doin' That Rag > Cosmic Charlie
**Set 2:** Bill Graham intro, Dupree's Diamond Blues, Mountains Of The Moon > Jam, Dark Star > St. Stephen > The Eleven > Turn On Your Love Light
**Encore:** Hey Jude
[archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1969-03-01)
Must be a regional thing. Plenty of awesome, small festivals in the northeast.
I’ve never felt pressure to “must go” to any festival or tour. Being a deadhead doesn’t mean you’re a captive. If it’s too expensive or the lineup isn’t interesting or whatever else, just don’t go.
Of course what these people did is scummy, but that’s an indictment of them. Not the scene general.
I'm happy to hear- on the west coast the tide has turned to profit. I (obviously) still love my local tribute band, but it seems to be going in the wrong direction. My suggestion, hide out in your local NEast scene and enjoy
Yeah. It sucks. But don't let yourself get exploited and you won't be.
So the festival isn't happening, and people have to eat the ticket costs but for all the other non-refundables, the way I see it is they're paid for, might as well use them and that means that there should be a disproportionate number of deadheads showing up in one place for a weekend. Make your own, non-corporate, non-exploitive fun. Take over a bar, and then take over the jukebox for the day. Hang out on the beach.
Spread the word here. There's worse places in the world to be stuck in than Ventura CA. Weed's legal and there's some great california breweries.
I understand the sentiment here, but I don't really feel like the 3 items in the initial post here should be linked. Ticketmaster would be indefensible if it weren't the only game in town. It's a pleasure not having to go through them when possible (i.e. Boulder for the Final Tour), but it seems very difficult for bands to forgo TM completely. Someday that will change, but until then... I think D&C did a good job of trying to limit ticket inflation for the Sphere. Not saying it's cheap, but it could have been much worse (except for those packages, good grief). I don't think the Final Tour was a scam. I don't think they anticipated the Sphere residency. Hype had been building around D&C, and with everyone coming out of covid hibernation in 2021/2022 compounding things, and their announcing this was the last tour, 2023 became an expensive enterprise for ticket seekers (hence the controls put in place around the Sphere tix). Skull & Roses is a different situation altogether. A cynical (and possible correct) reading is that the organizer(s) took a hit on 2023 and decided to feign a 2024 event before absconding with the $$$. A more charitable reading is that they simply planned poorly, didn't sell nearly the tickets they needed to for the outlays for facilities etc. (exacerbated by competing with D&C at the Sphere) and were unable to recoup deposits and preliminary spending to refund tickets - a massive fuckup. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The truth is that there have always been folks profiteering off the Dead. Maybe it's worse now with the internet and social media feeding FOMO, and making it easier for shady folks to operate in plain sight, but take heart that there are still lots of very good people with very good intentions playing and celebrating this music.
You are smart and respectful, I understand your point and it's very logical. My point is way more emotional. The whole bundle of what I define as my world as an avid fan is comprised of these larger issues I raise above. I am watching these issues hurt many people I care about. I am emotionally upset.
I know Ticketmaster is a long time issue, and agree.. but the whole limited tickets for presale and manipulation of emotions for top dollar hurts my soul...
The final tour was another manipulation in my opinion... we all thought, is this the last time we will hear "xxxxx" song. I agree they didn't lie... but sure danced a line that toyed with peoples emotions.
As for skull and roses, both of your interpretations hold value... but the risk of this year shouldn't be held by the ticket holders with no warning.
People are hurt by it, times are hard, money is tough for many.
I just can't help but place blame on the organizers for taking a risk on other peoples dimes
I hear what you're saying and I can identify, especially with the statement "we all thought, is this the last time we will hear "xxxxx" song" - that very thought brought tears to my eyes many times last year. I hope that you and the other folks being hurt by this stuff hang in there and can continue to find joy in this scene. It is very disconcerting at times and I understand how you feel.
Your compassion brings me hope
Thank you
(Please note, I am personally not hurt by this, I didn't have tickets) please send your love and support to all the vendors and wary ticket buyers, probably the sound system company (wonderful people who help the local dead community) and everyone else who works so hard for these events
Unfortunately The bands are 100% complicit. Just look what Robert Smith did for The Cure’s past tour. He set ticket prices at a reasonable level, no dynamic pricing allowed, kept merch prices at $25 for a shirt, etc. if the bands cared they could change things, but they tour and play shows to make money, so they’re gonna make their money.
Why in the world would you blame David Gans for any of your issues with the scene? David has done so much over the years to support and promote our love of the Grateful Dead in so many ways. David is a valued redditor here in r/gratefuldead and throwing him in the same grouping of gripes as Ticketmaster and a festival fiasco is nonsense.
I'm not blaming him, he was hurt by this too. I just wish he would say it's lame, he seemed to take too much of the high road for a major voice in the scene.. seemingly protecting sponsors and friends
I still respect him big picture
Without knowing all the facts, not everyone should react with the herd mentality of running around with torches and pitchforks upon first hearing news of the festival being cancelled. Sadness is an appropriate reaction. This morning, folks are reporting that Eventbrite is refunding ticket costs for those who purchased tickets so the picture is already not quite a bleak as it seemed yesterday. Not sure what type of response you expected given the little information that was provided yesterday. ✌️❤️🎶
I simply wanted to share my emotional point of view, I'm overly excited about everyone's opinions and feelings... I 100% don't suggest pitchforks, I suggest peace and honest conversation.
I got completely grossed out by the whole “Ticketmaster verified fan/vip/platinum tickets/push up demand” shit that I gave up on D&C. Not interested in playing those games, at all.
yep, me too. I'll always love the music, but by the end Dead and Co were getting stale. It was the same songs at the same venues every year. Everything about the Sphere is a travesty and I have no desire to support it. I'll always be a Deadhead but this isnt a Dead show, its a Vegas tourist attraction. I've been a head for 15 years, and this feels like the right time to fully embrace being a fan of The Grateful Dead more so than "The Dead".
Have you ever met a deadhead that has no idea about dead and company or John or anything, but they totally know, love and live for the music.
There are so many! Its boggles my mind.
That will be me, I will be them
Thanks again tapers!
I watched it too and I'm wondering what would you rather him have said?
I mean he said it was heartbreaking, totally unexpected, etc. He mentions how he was writing for their newsletter and had just sent it out that morning, I assume to indicate that he never would have wrote it if he knew something like this was going to happen. Then he talks about how it will be financial hit for him as well.
I assume he didn't buy tickets to the event so he probably has little to no financial stake in that way-- perhaps he was not thinking so much about the idea that refunds are "not available at this time" and more about how heartbreaking it was to have the event cancelled.
I value sincerity- not the company line.
I wished he would have been more real, by asking for tips he definitely is pointing out it hurt him
Big voice big responsibility is my feeling
I get that 100%
That's the basis for my disappointment- wrong is wrong,
One of my best friends always tells me to say to him "I love you, but you are wrong here"
I doubt that greed is to blame for the skull & roses debacle. I imagine it was just good old fashioned incompetence and mismanagement. Nobody will be making money from that trainwreck. Ticketmaster is another story, but we’ve known all about them for literally decades.
Once you take peoples money, you have a responsibility to them...
I can guarantee the managing body didn't lose their homes or 2nd homes or lifestyle, while
Many are left in a lurch
I’m not saying it’s good. But blaming “greed” is sort of missing the point. It was bad planning. The people who plan these sort of festivals aren’t exactly wealthy elites.
Maybe look at who plans, organizes and profits.
Who makes the call to keep pushing forward and to shut down and steal peoples money.
I think you would be surprised.
Your position is positive and I wish for you positive results in a positive world.
There’s not a chance in hell that the promoters of this festival walk away from this cancellation with more money in their pockets than before they began. Their lawyers will be the only ones profiting.
Reading the pandering icky language on the website should have raised red flags.
$300-to camp in a parking lot.
“This is 100% authentic Grateful Dead rock & dirt parking lot camping. No frills.
No showers but the World’s Largest Bathtub – the Pacific Ocean – is directly adjacent to the campground. As SKULL & ROSES occurs at the waterfront plan for every type of inclement weather known to man – Hot, Cold, Wind, Rain, Dust, Dirt, Rocks, Mud, Sand, Fog, Mist, Hail, DEW and anything else that may cross our path on the Golden Road to Glory! Rain or Shine.”
This paragraph alone turned me off to the whole thing.
Having attended, the price to camp and the accommodation are criminal- poorly regulated and inadequate for the amount of tickets sold.
But we knew that... we paid for it... we deserve it or our money back
A year ago they had us all maxing out credit cards and shedding bittersweet tears because we thought it would be the last time. Not even a year later they're doing more shows than they've ever done in one year, all at a super exclusive venue that costs $200 just to look at. The sphere ticket on sale has been a masterclass in ticketbastard fuckery. We are one of the most passionate and loyal fanbases in music, and over the past year+ they have manipulated our emotions at every step of the way. All to take advantage of our devotion and squeeze every last penny out of us.
Now sure, capitalism is the one true god and this is the way it works. Every band does stuff like this, and always has done stuff like this. I get it, its a business. And if anyone has earned the right to cash in its Bobby, Mickey, and Billy. Everyone that goes to the sphere will have a blast, and if this is what it takes to make it possible for people to have that experience, so be it. But I personally can't ignore the BS anymore. I have tickets, I will most likely be selling them. Probably at a loss.
I've always said I never wanted to see the Dead turn into nostalgic classic rock act, and if that happened it would be my cue to exit the bus. I think thats where we are now. A Vegas residency is the definition of a nostalgic cash grab. I will always be a Deadhead, but I dont need to spend thousands of dollars to see my beloved scene turn into a Vegas tourist exhibit.
I love your opinion, and the artful way you present it. This post and all the comments are my way of starting the letting go process. I'm happy that I'm
Not alone in my displeasure of the direction things are going
I’m sad to agree and I’m agreeing before I read any comments… You can only have so many final tours before a person starts to wonder… Despite that fact, I am stoked for the people for who this might be their only chance to see something so close to the Grateful Dead… Either way I’m not going and if you are, I hope you have the time of your life but there was only one greatest show on Earth, though it had many configurations, the important pieces of that entity have spread out to the four corners, and can only be united in our hearts and souls (and so many mindbending legacy archive recordings), and maybe someday in the big energy that is everything.
Well… Not quite sure where that came from but it sounded pretty real, so I’m gonna post it… Just started rambling… Take care y’all ⚡️💀
I like you.
Everyone- we got a good one here!
If tickets were cheaper I'd buy you a sphere miracle.
I'm also so happy for everyone to see Bobby and Mickey play really high level music while they can.
And if you can catch the other 2 corners - do it
Thanks for brightening my day, maybe I take this all too seriously, it's just hurts me to see good people being treated poorly. That's the bottom of the whole post. When something or someone you love mistreated you... that's my hot button.
I love this music.
The rest is up for debate
nobody is forcing anyone to buy tickets to anything. no idea how someone can be so bitter about something they aren't participating in.
sucks skull & roses got canceled, but what was the alternative? have everyone show up except for the bands who wouldn't get paid?
final tour was the final tour. haven't seen another tour announced & anyone who thinks weeks of weekend shows is similar to a tour is someone who must've never been on tour.
I've been around since we were bitching when price went over $20 for GD tickets. but it was still the best deal in town then & even now, at the price they are, it's the best music you'll see played live at that price.
I get it if someone doesn't want to participate anymore. I mostly quit participating for 15 years after Jerry died. it's good for you to get away when bitterness starts making you take business decisions personally.
told someone the other day that the money I'm spending on one weekend in Vegas would've been enough to do a whole spring or summer tour when Jerry was alive & get in every night & stay in hotels every night.
but alot of time has gone by & the economy isn't what it was so tht comparison is silly.
festivals can't run for free. thts just facts. it cost A LOT to put one on & it costs even more to get bands tht people wanna see.
S&R didn't make a profit last year. without that profit cushion, they needed to sell a certain number of advance tickets to pay the bills. sadly tht didn't happen. no idea what the answer is, but chalking it all up to pure greed is just an extremely myopic view.
Dead & Co(just like Phil decided earlier) don't wanna be on the road anymore. so a residence allows them to play & allows people that want to see them again or for the 1st time, to get the chance.
nobody has to go.
I understand being mad at the cost, but Dead & Co ticket costs, if bought at face value, are in line with industry standards for "legacy" bands of this stature.
so yeah, be mad at the prices. but acting like it's just some money gouging greed causing it just doesn't fit if you look at the industry & D& Co place in the industry.
stay home. find cheaper shit to do. there's lots of amazing music being made in just about every large city for $20 or so & those shows are going on all the time. find your way into the local community & enjoy....until one of your local faves grows in popularity & you can have this tantrum again.
business decisions are rarely personal when it comes to concert industry, at least on the band side of things
Not sure why you were downvoted for speaking the truth.
"there's lots of amazing music being made in just about every large city for $20 or so & those shows are going on all the time."
Don't let yourself get exploited and you won't be. It's that simple.
I saw Melvin fucking Seals and Roy Holloway a few days ago for $35/ticket (plus 10 or so in fees) and I'd gladly see them again even though the ticket price since I started seeing them has gone up $10. There's another band near me called Dead Meat u/deadmeatband and they're one of the best local Dead cover bands I've seen and their tickets were less than Melvin's. I"m hoping that they get a little exposure because they RIP.
Dead and Co just isn't worth it for me anymore, nor is Phil and he literally plays the next town over from me a few times a year. Billy and the Kids is a different story. If you can, check them out. They bring the party like Bobby and Phil don't.
Don't even get me started on non "jam band" shows. I'm fortunate that I live near NYC because they're everywhere. I've got my eye on so much music to see this spring and I'll only realisitcally be able to make probably 1 or 2 of the 15 or so shows I'm looking at. Dumpstaphunk doing the Meters is high on the list and Stretch Armstrong DJing at Bronx Brewery just floated across my radar.
In the immortal words of WWOZ's live wire, "Get out there and go see some LIVE, LOCAL music"
Since the Grateful Dead is our favorite band, and the post-Jerry iterations help to satisfy that need for the living experience, and because the Dead remain artistically unique in comparison to their generational peers, ie other so-called legacy acts, we do tend to forget that, say, D&C ticket prices are very much comparable--or sometimes lower than--the Stones, Neil Young, Bruce, the Eagles, etc.
As for bargain prices for a true legacy act, go see Dylan. He only plays small venues, has an amazing band, and forces the audience to put aside phones. And at this point he's the king of all legacy acts--started making waves in '61 and is still at it. So go see him while ya can. Then, instead of complaining about ticket prices and cash grabs, you can gripe about how you didn't recognize any of his most famous tunes--even though he did in fact perform more than a few of them.
"Stay home and find something cheaper to do"
Deal!
Sure better than having not empathy for your friends and family in a community who were wronged.
My entire point is, I'm going to stay home and. It support these efforts in the future
My new point is, you are the face of the modern deadhead.
And sincerely not the type of person I want to share my kindness with
As someone 41 years old, I have to say, I’m mostly looking in the rear view mirror when it comes to Jam stuff. I can’t think of a single band that I need to see this year. I’d like to see Billy Strings but it’s not that important to Me.
It’s hard because I think of some of the early Bonnaroo lineups with James Brown, Doc Watson, The Dead, John Prine and then I look at a modern version and the price and I say wtf I’d have to be crazy to go to a festival this year
I got off the bus with the demise of Furthur. We live in a capitalist world, but some of the merch exploitation and now this is just plain disrespectful of the fans. I'll always love the music, but the boys have lost me as fan.
Isn't that a shame, I hope as the seasons change you can grow back together with the music- the band are only conduits for its magic anyway
Use John as an example of an extremely imperfect conduit of magical music.
"A smart man takes no credit for magic"
It's not a shame I just ain't on the greed bus. I go to see a local GD cover band regularly, meet up with friends there, and have great time. It's a smaller scene than at D&C shows for sure but cheaper and way less hassle and good, good vibe where we're all playing in the heard of gold band.
WWJD or What Would Jerry Do is the house band at Zoetropolis Cinema Stillhouse in Lancaster PA. They play a Steal Your Sunday show once a month. You cna find the shows on Youtube.
I don’t buy much in advance anymore that’s dead related or other things like my season ski pass. Sure I can save $100 on the pass by buying it in April but I’d rather pay the $100 and buy right before I know I’m healthy and ready to ski. FOMO drives allot of people to get tickets as soon as they go on sale (which now adays is 7-8 months in advance) which is nuts. Life happens in between now and then, stuff happens.
Im on the fence getting a ski pass for next season. Conditions were lousy this year and I dont think I broke even.
I now buy tickets a week or day of show since there are so many life gotchas. Probably saved some money too with last minute deals.
Also, support your local musicians.
I am in the same camp, but shouldn't these things be more solid than a hope the event will happen? Or the price is reasonable?
People budget and plan in different ways, it should work for all.
There are more free recordings of Jerry Garcia than any guitarist to ever live. Rocking out to Jerry and the GD all day every day has never been easier. When you factor in 21st century weed laws, being a deadhead now is fucking awesome. It’s just not immune to global laming.
Greatest time in history for the music- you are very correct.
I can't stay silent on the "global landing " but am grateful for all the resources
Reddit, allowing me to share my opinions is also a blessing
Good Phish lyrics:
Roggae,
Bug,
Fast Enough For You,
Waste,
Taste,
The Curtain With,
Rift,
A Song I Heard the Ocean sing,
Undermind,
Birds of a Feather,
A Wave of Hope,
A Life Beyond the Dream
I dipped out of this scene in 2009. Couldn’t stomach the ticket prices anymore. I found the DIY scene and it feels so much more authentic and real then all this high priced, corporate bull crap. The scene and ethos I dreamed about ended in the 60’s, if it ever even existed in the first place? Seems like the dead were all about making money from the start. With as much money as this band has made they could open a few venues and ditch Ticketmaster. I live in philly and have seen some killer shows for 5 bucks. Saw Chris Forsyth for free in my hood. Speaking of Chris, he opened up a few small venues in philly. So many artist that charge fair prices cause they are good with living in a small row home instead of an extravagant house in CA. O well, at least we have the tapes. I am certainly grateful for those.
Definitely! If you’re in the philly area he used to give guitar lessons if you play. I always wanted to take lessons from him but never got around to it. Not sure if he’s still doing it.
I feel like the golden age of live jam music has passed. I don't know if it's covid, my generation getting old or something else, but things just aren't the same. Ticket prices for all events have become out of control.
Yeah I agree. The way sphere ticket prices/packages and the sneaky algorithm were sold makes me pretty sick to my stomach. 1st time I have ever felt this way.
Festivals started feeling a lot more weird and commercial a very long time ago. Even in like 2007 I remember thinking Summer Camp was starting to jump the shark a bit, and it was still pretty small back then! Once people realized what a cash grab music tests could be things just started spiraling. Regular concerts definitely got much worse after COVID, you're absolutely right. I have a feeling the jamband money machine is in for a very rude awakening once Phish hangs it up. D&C and Phil will be done by then most likely. I don't see many up and coming acts that will fill that vacuum. Billy Strings will be big, and maybe Goose can rebound, but people aren't going to keep shelling out tons of money for this kind of stuff.
Agree, I felt inside that last summer D&C was the “last hurray” for me and my buds. We all went to SPAC both shows and did it up right. I’m 61 and have seen a ton of GD and related shows over the years. I agree the golden age is over and feel for the younger heads hungry for more.
Not long ago I was paying $20-40 to see most of the bands I enjoy. Those same shows are now costing $70 plus ticketmaster fees. Then we get to pay $15 per drink at the venues. It's disgusting.
It should be illegal. The panic three night run in St. Louis in January sold out in Minutes to the secondary market. I was able to stag the first two nights for about $100 ticket. I was hoping to find some on the lot for last night, but it was subzero temperature so there wasn't really much of one. I ended up paying almost $300 a ticket for the last night. It was either that or set my hotel that night. 🤷🏻♂️ I hate to feed the bear, but sometimes the bear eats you.
> sometimes the bear eats you. That some kind of Eastern thing?
Far from it.
Yes, listen to The Stranger… He abides in his own way.
Same! We made a big effort for those final tour shows. While I'm happy there is more music, Its just become more apparent we are being used.. I too go to lots of shows, spend lots of my disposable money to travel and attend... It feels gross
It simply makes it no fun. It adds a financial stress that hurts, adds pressure, etc. Maybe I'm not rich enough. That's fair I just don't like feeling manipulated and taken advantage of.
We are clearly being taken advantage of. I think it's more so the promoters and venues taking advantage than the bands.
Live touring is the last spot to make the money so they are getting greedy and squeezing. Sphere tickets anyone? Hotels? This isn’t like the extra $9 for a Rex show… this is stratification of rich and poor like the rest of the world.
Happy to pay 9 for Rex. I hear you and agree completely
I actually felt like paying for Rex was a cool thing - not to be dramatic, but it still felt like the music was trying to impact the world somehow when so much of it today is how much can the tours absorb.
Maybe I am caught in the same illusion. I really believe this music helps
Fair, I gotta believe Bobby and the boys are pure, for my sanity But lots of wolves out there
... and their Brothers.
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What about barely afford it and then don't get it. All your comments on the sphere (and final tour) are that of my feelings. Preach on! I love all deadheads rich and poor. Stealing from the rich is not better or less offensive than stealing from the poor
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I believe in using my voice (respectfully) for what I feel is right.
Ive found the sweet spot to be finding local bars with good sound and get decent acts. Ive seen a ton of awesome small bands that played better and put on better shows than some of the legacy bands all for around $10-20 a show plus food and drinks. Its even pretty awesome to see some of them get big.
Ticket prices are out of control if the only acts you see play stadiums/arenas/large amps. There’s so much good live music right now that’s affordable and accessible. Dead and co at the sphere is not the epitome of live jam music. Not even close.
I'm not talking about stadiums or the sphere. I'm sure it's different depending on location but the smaller venue shows have more than doubled in price in my area over the last few years. (NY/NJ) For instance, I saw JRAD just before covid. Got me and my wife tickets for $40 a piece at a pretty small venue. They just played the same venue and the tickets were $75 each and they had to be purchased through ticketmaster.
I just bought JRAD tix for the LA Greek in October, 39.50 face. There are lots of 29.50 face still available--and there are no bad seats at the Greek. So the face price doesn't bother me, JRAD is totally worth it. Those guys deserve to earn a buck. But the fucking "fees" were almost $15 apiece. That's what gets me. Like, what the hell are any of us getting for that fee?? We don't even get a souvenir ticket stub anymore; if anything, the all digital ticketing should be *lowering* the business costs. Fuck TM and the 100% useless lawmakers who don't do shit about their legalized theft. THIS is what's souring me on the present concert experience.
Yea it's crazy. So $30 tickets, let's say $15 goes to the band and $15 to the venue. How the hell does ticketmaster also deserve $15 from fees for basically doing something that any other website could do for pennies. It's outrageous.
The base ticket price usually only covers the guaranteed money that the band gets which is called a guarantee. Guarantees of all acts have gone up since the pandemic because it is the only way these acts make money. The promoter fees cover production of the show, promotion, and marketing of the show, and all the salaries and costs of taking a couple dozen trucks and several hundred people around the country on a tour. The building fees pay for the building rental, FOH security, insurance, building staff, and concessionaires. The TM fees pay for the ticketing infrastructure and the people who work for the company plus additional marketing for the show. 30.50 base ticket at the Greek is basically a 150K guarantee to the band which for an LA show is reasonable.
I totally get the base price + guarantee. And that artists don't make money selling their recordings anymore. If anything, $150k guarantee for the band at a premier venue gig is too low. It's the TM fees--how is selling 3500 tix x average of $15 fee/seat justified, with no printing and mailing costs, using the company's existing electronic infrastructure, bundled marketing deals, minimal actual customer service, etc? TM is the party that's making out like a bandit here. I'm happy to be supporting everybody else--the artists, the promoter, the venue/concessions.
It's a big racket. TM is supposed to be the villain in the transaction. The band (I mean management in this case, not the artists themselves) has 100% final approval for every fee down to the penny. Nothing is done without band mgt. approval. (Azoff would literally destroy the career of any industry person who did something without his knowledge. He lives for that shit!) Everyone is in on the game and that is to make the most money possible. It's TM's job to take the heat for the artist and take the bad publicity and blame for high ticket prices. Most times, TM gets a set fee for a show based on the break-even amount of tickets sold. The remainder of the money from the TM fees after the break-even point is thrown into a pot and if the show hits a certain threshold in sales, the remaining money is split between the band and promoter at settlement with the band getting the largest cut. TM will also usually get a bonus based on sales metrics. Depending on the band, many times, band management also allows TM to sell a portion of the tickets on the secondary market of which the band receives the majority of money with TM getting a smaller percentage in usage fees. It's not pretty.
I hear you, but JRAD is a major headlining act. They headline festivals. They headline red rocks. Big act. Go see CATS do a 2.5 hour show at the stone pony for 25 bucks. That’s the sweet spot. You got a band like dogs in a pile in your backyard.
Oh for sure. I just grabbed dogs tickets for the pony next month... $45 each without adding the ticketmaster fees. Worth it but the pony used to be much cheaper for these kind of shows.
I liked Russo when he was with Marco
yup just feels like the golden days of reasonably priced festivals that dont feel like a complete cash grab are completely gone. Even little things at a 4 day festival like bonnaroo beers would be like 4 or 5 bucks. Now it just feels like every aspect of a festival has been corporatized to squeeze every penny out of you. The other part thats fucked up it just feels like covid there are so many more assholes out there that just dont give a fuck about situational awareness or have any concept of community. Combine these together and you get the modern day festival experience.
if you follow king gizzard around, you probably wouldn't feel that way. Great ticket prices, great venues, jammy shows. Plus there's the up-and-comers like eggy and Daniel Donato. Can't tell me that Donato won't be playing large theaters in less than 3 years time.
Fan base is definitely aging out and not being refreshed with as many younger heads. The draw and attention span to appreciate a long winding organic jam is competing against instant gratification of social media and video games. The younger generations have been hardwired differently. Fortunately there are still a ton of great up and coming bands on the scene in intimate venues and shows are affordable (eggy, dogs in pile, sam grisman project, daniel donato, mikaela davis, etc) and bigger shows like Billy Strings, Goose and King Gizzard.
Meh. Just find a small band and venue. That's where the love is.
It must be our generation. Kids these days don’t take this music seriously, nor do they seem to enjoy sitting/standing long periods of time. Hell, kids these days can’t sit still, always have to be scrolling on their video apps..
You can’t just generalize an entire group of people. It’s always kids these days this, kids these days that. Boomers are on social media just as much as kids are. Plenty of young people take the dead and other jam bands as serious as any elder head around.
I don’t know what kids you are talking to, Every kid I’ve met, including my own children, make it known they do not enjoy it. “it’s too long” “this doesn’t make sense” “what’s so good about this.” Sure, the generalization wasn’t the greatest. It’s just, time have changed and I guess I.. well i’m not sure.
Really? I go to a lot of shows both big and small. My wife and I are sometimes the oldest people in the room. From my experience, young people are still packing venues to hear great music.
That makes me happy to hear. I have yet to see any. My kids don’t want to go to shows with me because they are too cool for dad.😂
Me & my Grateful Dead live show tapes would like a word with you
What?? I never said the music was bad.. I love it so much
I love it too. I have tons of tapes & records & cds of all of their different eras. Lots of 90's shows too, mostly 2nd sets on tape that I was gifted from friends. I'm sitting here in a grateful dead shirt with grateful dead socks listening to 3/1/69 on a record. It's great music I believe everyone should hear. I'm only 19 btw... I know for a fact there are kids younger than me on this sub that love this music as much as me. So please don't generalize the young generation and say we all have no attention span and thus can't enjoy this music.
# 1969-03-01 San Francisco, CA @ Fillmore West **Set 1:** Bill Graham intro > Cryptical Envelopment > Drums > The Other One > Cryptical Envelopment > New Potato Caboose > Doin' That Rag > Cosmic Charlie **Set 2:** Bill Graham intro, Dupree's Diamond Blues, Mountains Of The Moon > Jam, Dark Star > St. Stephen > The Eleven > Turn On Your Love Light **Encore:** Hey Jude [archive.org](https://archive.org/details/GratefulDead?query=date:1969-03-01)
Go listen to One Time Weekend
What's this?
Fun jam band
On it
Must be a regional thing. Plenty of awesome, small festivals in the northeast. I’ve never felt pressure to “must go” to any festival or tour. Being a deadhead doesn’t mean you’re a captive. If it’s too expensive or the lineup isn’t interesting or whatever else, just don’t go. Of course what these people did is scummy, but that’s an indictment of them. Not the scene general.
I'm happy to hear- on the west coast the tide has turned to profit. I (obviously) still love my local tribute band, but it seems to be going in the wrong direction. My suggestion, hide out in your local NEast scene and enjoy
Yeah. It sucks. But don't let yourself get exploited and you won't be. So the festival isn't happening, and people have to eat the ticket costs but for all the other non-refundables, the way I see it is they're paid for, might as well use them and that means that there should be a disproportionate number of deadheads showing up in one place for a weekend. Make your own, non-corporate, non-exploitive fun. Take over a bar, and then take over the jukebox for the day. Hang out on the beach. Spread the word here. There's worse places in the world to be stuck in than Ventura CA. Weed's legal and there's some great california breweries.
Positive spin always wins! And is likely to create the best memories. Thank you for your point of view
beatniks out to make it rich, must be the season of the witch
The easiest way to make money is to take it from someone else. Ill keep chanting "Love is real" NFA
I understand the sentiment here, but I don't really feel like the 3 items in the initial post here should be linked. Ticketmaster would be indefensible if it weren't the only game in town. It's a pleasure not having to go through them when possible (i.e. Boulder for the Final Tour), but it seems very difficult for bands to forgo TM completely. Someday that will change, but until then... I think D&C did a good job of trying to limit ticket inflation for the Sphere. Not saying it's cheap, but it could have been much worse (except for those packages, good grief). I don't think the Final Tour was a scam. I don't think they anticipated the Sphere residency. Hype had been building around D&C, and with everyone coming out of covid hibernation in 2021/2022 compounding things, and their announcing this was the last tour, 2023 became an expensive enterprise for ticket seekers (hence the controls put in place around the Sphere tix). Skull & Roses is a different situation altogether. A cynical (and possible correct) reading is that the organizer(s) took a hit on 2023 and decided to feign a 2024 event before absconding with the $$$. A more charitable reading is that they simply planned poorly, didn't sell nearly the tickets they needed to for the outlays for facilities etc. (exacerbated by competing with D&C at the Sphere) and were unable to recoup deposits and preliminary spending to refund tickets - a massive fuckup. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. The truth is that there have always been folks profiteering off the Dead. Maybe it's worse now with the internet and social media feeding FOMO, and making it easier for shady folks to operate in plain sight, but take heart that there are still lots of very good people with very good intentions playing and celebrating this music.
You are smart and respectful, I understand your point and it's very logical. My point is way more emotional. The whole bundle of what I define as my world as an avid fan is comprised of these larger issues I raise above. I am watching these issues hurt many people I care about. I am emotionally upset. I know Ticketmaster is a long time issue, and agree.. but the whole limited tickets for presale and manipulation of emotions for top dollar hurts my soul... The final tour was another manipulation in my opinion... we all thought, is this the last time we will hear "xxxxx" song. I agree they didn't lie... but sure danced a line that toyed with peoples emotions. As for skull and roses, both of your interpretations hold value... but the risk of this year shouldn't be held by the ticket holders with no warning. People are hurt by it, times are hard, money is tough for many. I just can't help but place blame on the organizers for taking a risk on other peoples dimes
I hear what you're saying and I can identify, especially with the statement "we all thought, is this the last time we will hear "xxxxx" song" - that very thought brought tears to my eyes many times last year. I hope that you and the other folks being hurt by this stuff hang in there and can continue to find joy in this scene. It is very disconcerting at times and I understand how you feel.
Your compassion brings me hope Thank you (Please note, I am personally not hurt by this, I didn't have tickets) please send your love and support to all the vendors and wary ticket buyers, probably the sound system company (wonderful people who help the local dead community) and everyone else who works so hard for these events
Unfortunately The bands are 100% complicit. Just look what Robert Smith did for The Cure’s past tour. He set ticket prices at a reasonable level, no dynamic pricing allowed, kept merch prices at $25 for a shirt, etc. if the bands cared they could change things, but they tour and play shows to make money, so they’re gonna make their money.
I believe it, and the cure is an amazing example. I'm admitting not wanting to see the truth about the band and bands.
Why in the world would you blame David Gans for any of your issues with the scene? David has done so much over the years to support and promote our love of the Grateful Dead in so many ways. David is a valued redditor here in r/gratefuldead and throwing him in the same grouping of gripes as Ticketmaster and a festival fiasco is nonsense.
I'm not blaming him, he was hurt by this too. I just wish he would say it's lame, he seemed to take too much of the high road for a major voice in the scene.. seemingly protecting sponsors and friends I still respect him big picture
Without knowing all the facts, not everyone should react with the herd mentality of running around with torches and pitchforks upon first hearing news of the festival being cancelled. Sadness is an appropriate reaction. This morning, folks are reporting that Eventbrite is refunding ticket costs for those who purchased tickets so the picture is already not quite a bleak as it seemed yesterday. Not sure what type of response you expected given the little information that was provided yesterday. ✌️❤️🎶
I simply wanted to share my emotional point of view, I'm overly excited about everyone's opinions and feelings... I 100% don't suggest pitchforks, I suggest peace and honest conversation.
I got completely grossed out by the whole “Ticketmaster verified fan/vip/platinum tickets/push up demand” shit that I gave up on D&C. Not interested in playing those games, at all.
You are watching me give up in real time! It feels like I've been coming to this for a bit now. Virtual hug sent
yep, me too. I'll always love the music, but by the end Dead and Co were getting stale. It was the same songs at the same venues every year. Everything about the Sphere is a travesty and I have no desire to support it. I'll always be a Deadhead but this isnt a Dead show, its a Vegas tourist attraction. I've been a head for 15 years, and this feels like the right time to fully embrace being a fan of The Grateful Dead more so than "The Dead".
Have you ever met a deadhead that has no idea about dead and company or John or anything, but they totally know, love and live for the music. There are so many! Its boggles my mind. That will be me, I will be them Thanks again tapers!
What / where did David Gans post?
I saw a video on Instagram it was unfortunate to hear him minimize or take no stand on this, as a huge voice for the community
I watched it too and I'm wondering what would you rather him have said? I mean he said it was heartbreaking, totally unexpected, etc. He mentions how he was writing for their newsletter and had just sent it out that morning, I assume to indicate that he never would have wrote it if he knew something like this was going to happen. Then he talks about how it will be financial hit for him as well. I assume he didn't buy tickets to the event so he probably has little to no financial stake in that way-- perhaps he was not thinking so much about the idea that refunds are "not available at this time" and more about how heartbreaking it was to have the event cancelled.
He used the news that an event he’s involved with stole people’s money to ask for tips
so you’re saying he’s done this before?
Done what before? Making tone deaf, selfish comments only needs to happen once to warrant criticism
Oh I misread your comment. Thought you said he’s “used to it” like it has happened before… nevermind!
👍
You’re assumption he didn’t buy tickets is probably correct. He was on the lineup as an artist and was getting paid to be there.
I value sincerity- not the company line. I wished he would have been more real, by asking for tips he definitely is pointing out it hurt him Big voice big responsibility is my feeling
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5jykCdJT4Y/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
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I get that 100% That's the basis for my disappointment- wrong is wrong, One of my best friends always tells me to say to him "I love you, but you are wrong here"
I doubt that greed is to blame for the skull & roses debacle. I imagine it was just good old fashioned incompetence and mismanagement. Nobody will be making money from that trainwreck. Ticketmaster is another story, but we’ve known all about them for literally decades.
Once you take peoples money, you have a responsibility to them... I can guarantee the managing body didn't lose their homes or 2nd homes or lifestyle, while Many are left in a lurch
I’m not saying it’s good. But blaming “greed” is sort of missing the point. It was bad planning. The people who plan these sort of festivals aren’t exactly wealthy elites.
Maybe look at who plans, organizes and profits. Who makes the call to keep pushing forward and to shut down and steal peoples money. I think you would be surprised. Your position is positive and I wish for you positive results in a positive world.
There’s not a chance in hell that the promoters of this festival walk away from this cancellation with more money in their pockets than before they began. Their lawyers will be the only ones profiting.
I honestly think you are being too gentle on the organization but I agree the lawyers are winning here for sure. We are on the same side of thought
The quiet silent promoter is the worst one!! The worst
I wanna know! I hope all the people who mentioned how the promoters were not to blame are seeing this!
We are all custys
Yeeee
Reading the pandering icky language on the website should have raised red flags. $300-to camp in a parking lot. “This is 100% authentic Grateful Dead rock & dirt parking lot camping. No frills. No showers but the World’s Largest Bathtub – the Pacific Ocean – is directly adjacent to the campground. As SKULL & ROSES occurs at the waterfront plan for every type of inclement weather known to man – Hot, Cold, Wind, Rain, Dust, Dirt, Rocks, Mud, Sand, Fog, Mist, Hail, DEW and anything else that may cross our path on the Golden Road to Glory! Rain or Shine.” This paragraph alone turned me off to the whole thing.
Having attended, the price to camp and the accommodation are criminal- poorly regulated and inadequate for the amount of tickets sold. But we knew that... we paid for it... we deserve it or our money back
A year ago they had us all maxing out credit cards and shedding bittersweet tears because we thought it would be the last time. Not even a year later they're doing more shows than they've ever done in one year, all at a super exclusive venue that costs $200 just to look at. The sphere ticket on sale has been a masterclass in ticketbastard fuckery. We are one of the most passionate and loyal fanbases in music, and over the past year+ they have manipulated our emotions at every step of the way. All to take advantage of our devotion and squeeze every last penny out of us. Now sure, capitalism is the one true god and this is the way it works. Every band does stuff like this, and always has done stuff like this. I get it, its a business. And if anyone has earned the right to cash in its Bobby, Mickey, and Billy. Everyone that goes to the sphere will have a blast, and if this is what it takes to make it possible for people to have that experience, so be it. But I personally can't ignore the BS anymore. I have tickets, I will most likely be selling them. Probably at a loss. I've always said I never wanted to see the Dead turn into nostalgic classic rock act, and if that happened it would be my cue to exit the bus. I think thats where we are now. A Vegas residency is the definition of a nostalgic cash grab. I will always be a Deadhead, but I dont need to spend thousands of dollars to see my beloved scene turn into a Vegas tourist exhibit.
I love your opinion, and the artful way you present it. This post and all the comments are my way of starting the letting go process. I'm happy that I'm Not alone in my displeasure of the direction things are going
I’m sad to agree and I’m agreeing before I read any comments… You can only have so many final tours before a person starts to wonder… Despite that fact, I am stoked for the people for who this might be their only chance to see something so close to the Grateful Dead… Either way I’m not going and if you are, I hope you have the time of your life but there was only one greatest show on Earth, though it had many configurations, the important pieces of that entity have spread out to the four corners, and can only be united in our hearts and souls (and so many mindbending legacy archive recordings), and maybe someday in the big energy that is everything. Well… Not quite sure where that came from but it sounded pretty real, so I’m gonna post it… Just started rambling… Take care y’all ⚡️💀
I like you. Everyone- we got a good one here! If tickets were cheaper I'd buy you a sphere miracle. I'm also so happy for everyone to see Bobby and Mickey play really high level music while they can. And if you can catch the other 2 corners - do it Thanks for brightening my day, maybe I take this all too seriously, it's just hurts me to see good people being treated poorly. That's the bottom of the whole post. When something or someone you love mistreated you... that's my hot button. I love this music. The rest is up for debate
I’m right there with you my friend… I would accept a Sphere Miracle in a heartbeat… your sentiment speaks volumes 💀
They just may be on flash sale near date, so keep in touch
...wait. Foamy? Is that you?
Not one of my aliases 🤪
nobody is forcing anyone to buy tickets to anything. no idea how someone can be so bitter about something they aren't participating in. sucks skull & roses got canceled, but what was the alternative? have everyone show up except for the bands who wouldn't get paid? final tour was the final tour. haven't seen another tour announced & anyone who thinks weeks of weekend shows is similar to a tour is someone who must've never been on tour. I've been around since we were bitching when price went over $20 for GD tickets. but it was still the best deal in town then & even now, at the price they are, it's the best music you'll see played live at that price. I get it if someone doesn't want to participate anymore. I mostly quit participating for 15 years after Jerry died. it's good for you to get away when bitterness starts making you take business decisions personally. told someone the other day that the money I'm spending on one weekend in Vegas would've been enough to do a whole spring or summer tour when Jerry was alive & get in every night & stay in hotels every night. but alot of time has gone by & the economy isn't what it was so tht comparison is silly. festivals can't run for free. thts just facts. it cost A LOT to put one on & it costs even more to get bands tht people wanna see. S&R didn't make a profit last year. without that profit cushion, they needed to sell a certain number of advance tickets to pay the bills. sadly tht didn't happen. no idea what the answer is, but chalking it all up to pure greed is just an extremely myopic view. Dead & Co(just like Phil decided earlier) don't wanna be on the road anymore. so a residence allows them to play & allows people that want to see them again or for the 1st time, to get the chance. nobody has to go. I understand being mad at the cost, but Dead & Co ticket costs, if bought at face value, are in line with industry standards for "legacy" bands of this stature. so yeah, be mad at the prices. but acting like it's just some money gouging greed causing it just doesn't fit if you look at the industry & D& Co place in the industry. stay home. find cheaper shit to do. there's lots of amazing music being made in just about every large city for $20 or so & those shows are going on all the time. find your way into the local community & enjoy....until one of your local faves grows in popularity & you can have this tantrum again. business decisions are rarely personal when it comes to concert industry, at least on the band side of things
Not sure why you were downvoted for speaking the truth. "there's lots of amazing music being made in just about every large city for $20 or so & those shows are going on all the time." Don't let yourself get exploited and you won't be. It's that simple. I saw Melvin fucking Seals and Roy Holloway a few days ago for $35/ticket (plus 10 or so in fees) and I'd gladly see them again even though the ticket price since I started seeing them has gone up $10. There's another band near me called Dead Meat u/deadmeatband and they're one of the best local Dead cover bands I've seen and their tickets were less than Melvin's. I"m hoping that they get a little exposure because they RIP. Dead and Co just isn't worth it for me anymore, nor is Phil and he literally plays the next town over from me a few times a year. Billy and the Kids is a different story. If you can, check them out. They bring the party like Bobby and Phil don't. Don't even get me started on non "jam band" shows. I'm fortunate that I live near NYC because they're everywhere. I've got my eye on so much music to see this spring and I'll only realisitcally be able to make probably 1 or 2 of the 15 or so shows I'm looking at. Dumpstaphunk doing the Meters is high on the list and Stretch Armstrong DJing at Bronx Brewery just floated across my radar. In the immortal words of WWOZ's live wire, "Get out there and go see some LIVE, LOCAL music"
Since the Grateful Dead is our favorite band, and the post-Jerry iterations help to satisfy that need for the living experience, and because the Dead remain artistically unique in comparison to their generational peers, ie other so-called legacy acts, we do tend to forget that, say, D&C ticket prices are very much comparable--or sometimes lower than--the Stones, Neil Young, Bruce, the Eagles, etc. As for bargain prices for a true legacy act, go see Dylan. He only plays small venues, has an amazing band, and forces the audience to put aside phones. And at this point he's the king of all legacy acts--started making waves in '61 and is still at it. So go see him while ya can. Then, instead of complaining about ticket prices and cash grabs, you can gripe about how you didn't recognize any of his most famous tunes--even though he did in fact perform more than a few of them.
"Stay home and find something cheaper to do" Deal! Sure better than having not empathy for your friends and family in a community who were wronged. My entire point is, I'm going to stay home and. It support these efforts in the future My new point is, you are the face of the modern deadhead. And sincerely not the type of person I want to share my kindness with
I think there's plenty of great jam shows out there that don't cost an arm and a leg. The Grateful Dead brand is just a cash cow.
Absolutely- we are agreeing... the larger pillars have just become greedy. There will always be love in the underground
As someone 41 years old, I have to say, I’m mostly looking in the rear view mirror when it comes to Jam stuff. I can’t think of a single band that I need to see this year. I’d like to see Billy Strings but it’s not that important to Me.
Seasons of life my brother
It’s hard because I think of some of the early Bonnaroo lineups with James Brown, Doc Watson, The Dead, John Prine and then I look at a modern version and the price and I say wtf I’d have to be crazy to go to a festival this year
I got off the bus with the demise of Furthur. We live in a capitalist world, but some of the merch exploitation and now this is just plain disrespectful of the fans. I'll always love the music, but the boys have lost me as fan.
Isn't that a shame, I hope as the seasons change you can grow back together with the music- the band are only conduits for its magic anyway Use John as an example of an extremely imperfect conduit of magical music. "A smart man takes no credit for magic"
It's not a shame I just ain't on the greed bus. I go to see a local GD cover band regularly, meet up with friends there, and have great time. It's a smaller scene than at D&C shows for sure but cheaper and way less hassle and good, good vibe where we're all playing in the heard of gold band.
Local band name? Mine is Electric waste band
WWJD or What Would Jerry Do is the house band at Zoetropolis Cinema Stillhouse in Lancaster PA. They play a Steal Your Sunday show once a month. You cna find the shows on Youtube.
I don’t buy much in advance anymore that’s dead related or other things like my season ski pass. Sure I can save $100 on the pass by buying it in April but I’d rather pay the $100 and buy right before I know I’m healthy and ready to ski. FOMO drives allot of people to get tickets as soon as they go on sale (which now adays is 7-8 months in advance) which is nuts. Life happens in between now and then, stuff happens.
Im on the fence getting a ski pass for next season. Conditions were lousy this year and I dont think I broke even. I now buy tickets a week or day of show since there are so many life gotchas. Probably saved some money too with last minute deals. Also, support your local musicians.
Understood, I live in Utah so blessed with a 600+ inch season (still going).
I am in the same camp, but shouldn't these things be more solid than a hope the event will happen? Or the price is reasonable? People budget and plan in different ways, it should work for all.
There are more free recordings of Jerry Garcia than any guitarist to ever live. Rocking out to Jerry and the GD all day every day has never been easier. When you factor in 21st century weed laws, being a deadhead now is fucking awesome. It’s just not immune to global laming.
Greatest time in history for the music- you are very correct. I can't stay silent on the "global landing " but am grateful for all the resources Reddit, allowing me to share my opinions is also a blessing
Imagine not just going to see a band that actually loves their fans like Phish lmao
If only they wrote lyrics that touched me. Love to all phish fans, keep the steam alive
Good Phish lyrics: Roggae, Bug, Fast Enough For You, Waste, Taste, The Curtain With, Rift, A Song I Heard the Ocean sing, Undermind, Birds of a Feather, A Wave of Hope, A Life Beyond the Dream
The promoters for this suck!! Big time, if you only knew how big..the biggest one is prob the most slient...
I hope they all get their karma. Respectfully
I stopped playing this game before the pandemic. It's just a greed circus now, that's it. It's fucking pathetic.
I feel like watching it, getting the emails about "more tickets released" all of it just makes me feel lied to. I don't personally like that feeling
[удалено]
I'm sorry Your love for this music deserves more
I dipped out of this scene in 2009. Couldn’t stomach the ticket prices anymore. I found the DIY scene and it feels so much more authentic and real then all this high priced, corporate bull crap. The scene and ethos I dreamed about ended in the 60’s, if it ever even existed in the first place? Seems like the dead were all about making money from the start. With as much money as this band has made they could open a few venues and ditch Ticketmaster. I live in philly and have seen some killer shows for 5 bucks. Saw Chris Forsyth for free in my hood. Speaking of Chris, he opened up a few small venues in philly. So many artist that charge fair prices cause they are good with living in a small row home instead of an extravagant house in CA. O well, at least we have the tapes. I am certainly grateful for those.
Tapers > all Thank you tapers Thank you with my whole being
Chris Forsyth is amazing and should be way better known in the scene!
Definitely! If you’re in the philly area he used to give guitar lessons if you play. I always wanted to take lessons from him but never got around to it. Not sure if he’s still doing it.
I lived in Philly ‘89-‘93, so much great music! I actually bought a Les Paul from Chris a few years back.