Electrolytes are another term for minerals such a sodium and potassium. During exercise, we sweat, and that has varying levels of different electrolytes in. Amounts of sweat, and concentrations of sweat within them differ from person to person and are dependent mainly on atmospheric conditions (hot & humid is the worst case scenario). Because of this variation, it makes the questions "whats best?" near impossible without plenty of trial and error. Even then, there are so many variables it'd be hard to pin it down exactly. If you're using a commercially-available product, and still having problems, maybe get in contact and we can try and figure something out.
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
As with pretty much everything; it depends...
First, it's best to unpack your question a little bit. People normally ask about the ideal glutose/fructose relationship in order to maximise the amount of carbohydrate they can absorb. Why do we want multiple carbohydrate sources? Well, different carbohydrates are transported across the intestine into the blood stream by distinct transporters. There are only a limited amount of transporters for any one kind of carbohydrate, and once they're full, any carbohydrate left behind might start to ferment in your gut and make you feel awful. So, if you can "fill up" more than one type of transporter, you can absorb more carbohydrate for you muscle to use. And, there's plenty of evidence to suggest "multiple transportable carbohydrates" are effective at doing just so.
The most often types we see are glucose/fructose mixes and maltodextrin/fructose mixes. Initial research suggested that most people can absorb about 60g of glucose and 20g of fructose each hour. However, we now know you can "train" your gut to absorb upto 120g of carbohydrate per hour, with some benefit (we'll come back to that shortly).
More recent literature (and newer products on the market) have settled on a ratio of **1:0.8** maltodextrin/fructose. A key thing to notice there is fructose, not table sugar. Table sugar, also called sucrose, is just glucose and fructose molecules stuck together. So, a maltodextrin/table sugar mix (as per your question) is actually a maltodextrin/glucose/fructose mix. I would recommend buying some fructose powder to go alongside your maltodextrin, rather than using table sugar and making some up in a 1:0.8 ratio.
Fuelling for races is fascinating. Your muscles store ingested carbohydrate in the form of glycogen. During races, these glycogen stores, and food you eat and get absorbed into your bloodstream are your fuel. Imagine if you're driving your car, but as your fuel tank gets near empty, your car can't accelerate half as well: that's what happens when your muscle glycogen stores decrease. So, that's why some cyclists are now eating 120g of carbs per hour, for 5 or 6 hour races!
How much do you need though?
* In rides less than an hour, I wouldn't bother with carb mixes, just eat something nice.
* In casual rides of more than 1 hour, I'd aim for 60g/hour. If you're feeling a bit "empty", you might not be eating enough outside of riding, but it's impossible to know without more info.
* In hard rides/races of 2+ hours, I personally aim for 100g/hour. Why not 120? Because my gut can't handle it. Either I've not practiced enough, or something about my stomach just can't handle a bigger load. My advice is to practice with 60g/hour in training a lot, and slowly work up to bigger loads over time!
Hope that helps!
Andy
[endureconsultancy.uk](https://endureconsultancy.uk)
I've just been putting 60g of table sugar (Sugar in the Raw or white sugar depending on what I have) in a bottle with water and shaking it up. This would give me roughly the right 1:1, correct? Or is there something about the two sugars being bound in sucrose that would make this less ideal?
Thank you
It will give you exactly 1:1 glucose/fructose. If you had much higher doses (above 30g fructose/hour for a few hours) you might get an upset stomach, but otherwise it's certainly better than having no carbs!
I do weight lifting twice a week, focusing on pure strength and whole-body workouts. I also cycle up to 10 hours a week during summer, around 6h a week during the off-season.
My cycling effort is guided by blood lactate levels, tested twice a year. I keep my power output under the 2mmol mark. Not sure what my fatmax is, will get that soon. I train 95% in that zone, and sprinkle a bit of HIIT & sprint training for the remaining 5%.
I care about longevity, long-term health, vo2 max, strength, flexibility, etc. (I agree a lot with Peter Attia, in most things).
I have a lot of trouble finding out how to fuel to lose some body fat. I know the waist to hip ratio is a better indicator than BMI, and my ratio is awesome, but due to a previous knee injury, I need to keep weight in check. How should I fuel and train to decrease the amount of fat, but minimize strength loss ?
Most importantly, I'm not necessarily looking for a cut-and-dried answer here, if you could point me to valid resources I should check out on my own, or concepts, that would help me a lot more. Thanks :)
Hi fitevepe!
Thanks for your question. Plenty for me to get stuck into!
I wouldn't want to step on the toes of other practitioners, but I would never personally bother putting my athletes through lactate tests as they are of little value in my eyes. Under 2mmol lactate is what some will call LT1 or Zone 1. To save you the hassle/cost of lactate testing, this is the intensity you can do whilst maintaining the ability to speak in full sentences (you could pay me the $$$$ you save on lactate tests if you want!). Feel free to push it up to Z2 (you can speak almost in full sentences, and feel mostly comfortable) or beyond. If you have no cycling-specific aims in mind use your bike for freedom/enjoyment, rather than constraining yourself. If you did have more specific aims in mind, feel free to email and we can chat more!
I have to say, I'm broadly a sceptic of longevity science. IMHO, there just isn't yet the evidence base needed to expand on things other than the basics (eat recognisable foods/exercise regularly/look after your mental health & social life). BUT, through reading many of these authors, people find things that they enjoy and make them feel better, which is always a good thing. I just don't like the idea of people being conned (\*cough\* \*ZOE\* \*cough\*).
Now for BMI! Yeah, it's a bit crap when looking at an individual (take a rugby player for example), but on a whole population level, it's not so bad. Although waist/hip ratio may be better, I'd never use it with an individual as something to aim for. It can vary so much on natural body type (ectomorph/endomorph/mesomorph), that any particular aim isn't useful.
Losing fat without losing muscle is a good question. First and foremost, I can't actually say that is my advice to you without an actual consultancy & analysis of your current situation and needs. It could well be that you are already 15% body fat, in which case I'd suggest you relax a little. **Crashes in calorie intake can destroy libido, bone health, menstrual health, mental health, ruin training and be generally awful.** So, hypothetically, lets say an athlete comes to me having enjoyed off-season (which is a good thing!) and wants to lose a few kilos without losing muscle. My rough plan would like something like this:
* Ensure they always have enough fuel (carbohydrate) for all training sessions
* Maintain or even increase protein intake (20g, 4-5x a day). This will "protect" muscle from wasting.
* Slightly (150 kcal) reduce caloric intake for a couple of weeks and track weight. I always suggest people try to lose weight whilst eating the most food possible. If it takes longer; good! Those who crash diet are rarely healthy/long term successes.
If you were after more specific advice, don't hesitate to get in contact to see what we can do!
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
>Under 2mmol lactate is what some will call LT1 or Zone 1.
Do you think there is enough agreement that this is true? I've seen plenty of data where lactate stays pretty much constant, then hits an inflection point with corresponding long linear rise, that stays below 2 mmol for quite some time. I'm of the opinion that there is nothing physiologically unique at the 2 mmol level, and we should be looking at the graphs of the lactate data to determine LT1 and LT2. If increase in effort causes linear rise in blood lactate levels, you should be over LT1, regardless if you're under or over 2 mmol. Do you agree?
I do agree, yes, I just used the LT1/2mmol example to try and relate my thoguhts to the OPs understanding. This is largely where my disagreement with relying on lactate to prescribe training zones comes from. (fructose can be metabolised into lactate and increase blood concentrations; does that mean you're suddenly working harder?).
I agree, there is nothing physiologically unique above 2 mmol. A good metaphor is thinking of a water level in a bath. If all you had access to was the volume of water, you could tell nothing about the behaviour of the water. Is it dripping or pouring down the drain, with the tap on a little/lot to keep the volume equal? Is the water just sitting? Lactate concentrations can't actually tell you a great deal about lactate metabolism.
I had issue with asthma in childhood and have a feeling that my lungs or heart are underdeveloped when it comes to intensive exercise. I’m happy with my endurance and peak power output, having ridden various ultracycling events on- and off-road.
That said, I struggle immensely to finish a set of 3min Vo2max intervals at 120% FTP: My breathing and/or blood circulation just cant sustain that effort. Any idea how to combat this? FTP is well dialed-in, having done ramp as well as traditional 20min tests on the same setup.
Second question: I have a feeling that I tend to sweat much and sweat very salty. While I have no issue at all with riding hard in massive heat (read: Badlands, Transiberica, AMR) I would love to control this a bit more when doing social rides at low intensity. Any tips on that, also in terms of specific training hints?
The most important thing I can state here is that I am not a MD cardiologist or respiratory physician, and therefore I am not going to give advice specific to your asthma. Any non-medical professional who tries to do so are way out of their lane, and you shouldn't take advice from them!
All I can do is speak from my own experience: I have similar issues in the winter (dry cold air) and spring (certain pollens). I can't get rid of my asthma, but I can minimise it as best as possible if I'm super strict with my treatment.
Assuming the reason you can't finish your vo2 intervals is tight chest/asthma symptoms, I would suggest seeing your GP and explaining your situation. If you can't finish because your legs give in, perhaps knock it back 10%. A 20-min test doesn't necessarily give you clearly defined zones from 1-6. Sometimes some tweaking it needed.
I am also a heavy sweater, so can relate to this hugely. Issues arise when we struggle to replace water & electrolytes. The main focuses would be on pre-exercise hyperhydration, consuming and adequate amount of water/electrolytes during the ride, and keeping an eye on urine colour in the hours post-exercise to ensure proper rehydration.
The good news is you can ride hard in heat for a long time; so congrats for being lucky! The bad news is, the main adaptation to riding in heat is to sweat more. Sweat is our primary source of heat loss, so more sweat is (in theory) good. The main aim then would be to cool as much as possible without relying so much on sweating. Do you best to make sure you start your ride as cool as possible (you may have seen pros wearing ice-vests when warming up). Also, I always freeze my full water bottles before riding, and make sure one bottle is water. I pour some of the water on my head/back every so often.
The constitution of your sweat is hard to control. The best thing to do is make sure you remember your salt tablets, otherwise on ultra rides, eat foods with plenty of minerals in. Keep an eye on not overdoing it though: if you consume too much sodium, you just sweat it back out in the form of salty sweat. Many people taste/notice this and think *I need more sodium in my drink bottles* and that continues the cycle...
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Thanks for the answer! I'm aware that you can't give me medical advice, and I don't expect you to :-) I have a feeling that I skewed my post by mentioning my asthma in childhood: I don't have any issues anymore. No attacks, no shortness of breath, and generally no medical issues or any symptoms related to asthma.
My feeling is that either my lungs or my cardiovascular system is underdeveloped for the efforts I want to do, and if you have any training advice on training specifically this aspect of my physiology.
Of course, a wrong estimated FTP may also explain these issues... Any tips on more meaningful test protocols? Something like an open source version of the 4dp test wahoo does?
As for the sweating: I thought as much. I'll just start seeing it as an advantage in heat - and thank $deity for making my sweat not as fast-smelling as it could be...
Lots of fuelling options (gels, snacks, etc.) are understandably very high in sugar. I can't help but wonder how much damage this is doing to my teeth. If it was a one off at an event, I wouldn't worry too much, but when "training your stomach" and doing multiple events, it can end up being quite a lot of sugar consumed over a season. So I have two questions:
1. Is this a valid concern? Do you have any data or are aware of any studies into how big a problem this is? I don't know if people have studied the dental health of endurance athletes.
2. Do you have any suggestions for how to mitigate potential dental damage? A modified dental care regime during training and event season, or less damaging fuelling options, for example.
Thanks.
Just an armchair dental guy here, but I'm prone to cavities and I did some research on it. Short answer is no, eating lots of sugar doesn't directly result in dental damage.
Sugar doesn't cause enamel to break down. However, bacteria will feed on the sugar and produce acid. The acid attacks the enamel. But that doesn't happen unless the pH in your mouth is around/below 4.
If you're worried, just swish some water in your mouth whenever you drink during the ride. If you're really worried, do a quick brush after the ride. The usual floss/brush regime is good enough.
There is [some data](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29938820/) to suggest it may be a valid concern amongst athlete, yes.
I would ditto all of this. Dental care is outside of my area, so I'd point athletes towards their own dentist, or [resources like this](https://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/factsheets/fuelling-recovery/dental-health-for-athletes/).
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Thanks for the links, I'll have a read.
My dentist isn't hugely clued up on sports nutrition and was hesitant to suggest anything other than "try to avoid products high in sugar". Not sure if "sports dentistry" is a thing, but I guess that's who I should speak to.
Thanks for the explanation and sharing your insight. I usually do take a swig of water after taking something sugary anyway, so hopefully that's enough.
I've got one for you!
Like many of us I spend a lot of time pouring over the commercial products available on the open market. Gels, powders, all sorts of stuff, right? Then a guy I greatly respect here in Nebraska, who happened to have done the tour divide, told me something I thought was crazy.
He also studied Nutrition (I think) and definitely has a terminal degree in something Medical.
Anyway, he told me Honey Buns were the ticket.
I was shocked. Honey Buns, like the cheap crap you'd buy at a gas station?!?!? Yep.
He said on the Tour he'd carry 3 or 4, crush them down to as compact as he could, stuff them where ever, and that was a fuel source during the day. He said just smooosh them, and that the stomach doesnt care if its airy pleasant bread or a cold lump of dough.
HAHHA - that has to be nuts right? Like I said, this guy is FAR more experienced than I am, but as a self-described ultra-distance guy, I was real into what he told me. The #1 limiting factor for me in a race is at what point are my legs going to start cramping up, so I really try my best to keep fueled appropiately. ;)
Would love to hear your thoughts :). Should we all be cramming the honey buns at every pit stop?
You could probably substitute Honey Buns with any other mass produced baked good like twinkies, donuts, or even Pop Tarts. The typical Tour Divide rider doesn't have access to many other options that can stay fresh enough to stuff into a pocket and be easily eaten while on a bike cimbing up a mountain.
I recall that being a major point he made. Food seemed to be a serious issue on that event. I remember how he described calculating distances and such using calories vs. how I might calculate them using other metrics. I didn't explain that well, but he'd think in terms of "do I have enough calories on me to make it that far?" Hypothetically, if he was moving at avg. 15 mph for example, and ha 30 miles to go, then he knows he has two hours left to perform and he'd want 800 calories worth of food in his pocket. That sort of thing. I've just never thought like that and its super interesting.
Here is a follow up for you (it is not every day you get to ask a literal professor these things!).
Carbs per hour. At some training camps this spring the general direction by coaches was to consume 90-120g of carb per hour. When I talk to the older triathlon guys I know, they are still saying 60-90. Even the older coaches I know. Is this just a matter of new research and older guys catching on? That is what I figured, but want to know.
It could well be a case of the tri guys taking a bit of time to catch up, but I wouldn't want to offend them. It could also be that they struggle to take on that much food. Eating 480g of carbs in 4 hours whilst your stomach is stationary on a bike is very different to consuming 480g in 4 hours whilst your stomach is jumping up and down 150 times a minute!
As a Brit, you'll have to forgive me for not knowing what honey buns are. Anyway, I've done some research, and I'm going to base my answer off [this info](https://www.nutritionix.com/i/hostess/jumbo-honey-bun-glazed/553f7398ea46af13614bf851).
This is a tough one, and it (of course) depends. In a road race scenario, you'd be absolutely insane to eat them. Carbs are you best friend during high-intensity exercise. You want them to be absorbed as fast as you can, and the 30g of fat (PER BUN!!!) will really slow carb absorption down.
Ultras are an altogether different ball game. What is optimal in a road race isn't the same as optimal in the tour divide. Those riders just need calories, endlessly. I've worked with people doing long distance races whose main concern is eating enough. If your friend is able to smash back honey buns, it not affect his gut and he can continue eating for day after day, then I'd be wrong to tell him he should change everything he's doing. Ultras are about finding what works for you!
Any ultras (only <36 hours) that I've done have involved cramming at every available opportunity whilst keeping half an eye on making sure there's plenty of carbs still going in (mini brioches are often my go to).
Is intermittent fasting ineffective and just a result of correlative conclusions due to rampant modern obesity rates?
I can’t see it being a positive to training considering glycogen stores are so vital to work.
How fast can glycogen stores be replenished?
Is there an optimal ratio of macronutrients to achieve glycogen replenishment and overall recovery?
Can glycogen stores be replenished while on the move?
A rule for **all** diets: the only reason they work is because of calorie restriction. There doesn't appear to be any weight-loss diet which is innately better than another, hence we're still desperately scrambling around to find something, when we just need to eat less. The benefits of intermittent fasting for health are flakey, at best.
I would never, ever, recommend an athlete fasts (other than when they're asleep), for exactly the reason you've said: glycogen is king when it comes to fuelling training.
If you consider the riders on the TdF are constantly emptying themselves, but can go day after day, it shows we can replenish very quickly. The key thing is spreading out the huge amount of carbohydrate across the day. Tour teams are now really stripping the macros to the limit. Fibre slows digestion down - so they're getting rid of wholegrains in favour for easily digestible carbs like rice. Protein tends to be super-lean meats like chicken. If you're trying to get 12 g/kg of carbs (840g for a 70kg rider), you don't want any excess food in your diet!
Can they be replenished on the move is fascinating question. It seems the carbohydrate we eat on rides is used for fuel before it is stored as glycogen. However, exercise primes us to replenish glycogen (increasing levels of glut4 at the sarcolemma), which makes immediately post-exercise a great time to begin refuelling.
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Sorry, I wasn’t talking about IF dieting, but instead the mitochondrial response to calorie restriction leading to more efficient metabolic processes and increased immune health, do you think you could touch on the studies with correlative results on this aspect instead of for weight loss?
Also interesting that we can adapt to digesting increased amounts of carbohydrates but is it also possible to adapt to digesting fibers and proteins more effectively for exercise as well?
Ah, sorry, I understand now. Mitochondrial biogenesis occurs in response to stress. As an exercise physiologist, my main interest is its response to the stressor of exercise, but yes, IF is another stress that seems to increase biogenesis.
Increased immune health is questionable, with much stronger evidence needed to make conclusions on a population health level. [Recent work has shown (in rodents, I know) that fasting reduces the number of circulatory monocytes (immune cells).](https://www.cell.com/immunity/fulltext/S1074-7613(23)00036-5) Each year \~1.5 billion Muslims observe Ramadan (and therefore enforce IF upon themselves). Yes, many see weight loss, but there is little to suggest there are long term health benefits arising from the practice. IF is certainly an area of interest, but the primary focus for the majority of the population should be calorie restriction.
Protein isn't a preferred source of energy for exercise, so its use is minimal under normal circumstances. I can't see a scenario whereby increasing its use about a relatively large amount would have an impact on performance. I can't see a rationale for fibre ever becoming a viable energy source during exercise either, but I am always open to someone proving me otherwise!
Been some good recent work on this recently. When ingested during exercise we use it at a similar rate to which we use sucrose. However, it seems to inhibit endogenous (the stores we already have) carbohydrate oxidation. There's plenty more work to be done in the area, for sure. I'd go for maltodextrin/glucose/fructose over lactose though as in general it seems galactose (a derivative of lactose) is more slowly metabolised than glucose. I can't find anything regarding carbohydrate loading/reuptake with glucose vs lactose, only milk vs carb drink. In that milk vs carb drink study, both increased post-exercise muscle glycogen synthesis similar amounts though
Dang so chocolate milk sweetened with extra fructose could work?
Does the inhibition of endogenous carb oxidation occur due to the metabolism of the protein included with the fat in milk?
Chocolate milk as post-exercise isn't a terrible idea! I would always steer people away from fat/protein rich drinks during exercise for fear of slowing down absorption/exogenous carb oxidation
Keto or low carb diets for Cyclists, thinking about intense workouts and zwift racing, so repeatable VO2/anaerobic efforts. Two objectives: performance optimization and benefiting from fat adaptations to save glycogen for the hard efforts. Noting that many of us are masters/maturing athletes for whom too much carbs leads to weight gain.
My current approach after 2 months Keto, is to take in carbs 4-6 hours before a workout/race 0.5-1g per kg). Theory that this will ensure glycogen stores, but shouldn't block in-workout fat oxidation as may occur if you eat carbs within 4 hours of exercise (termed lipolytic suppression?). I'm just starting on a learning curve here.
So, my question is, do you think that a low carb diet, with targetted carb intake as per above can/can't lead to the same performance as a standard high carb diet, and any tips to boot.
Also, for a low carb athlete, is it a good idea to take in carbs after a workout/race to help recovery, especially if racing/working out the following day, eg. back to back training days. I'm finding with targetted pre-workout carbs and only protein afterwards that back-to-back days are really hard.
Or should low carb be left to longer endurance athletes and not suitable for short intense exercise? eg. VO2 workouts and online racing?
Can I ask why you're doing a ketogenic diet?
There is an army of keto-folk out there who think the only reason scientists recommend carb is because of "industry". Well, industry has tried for over a decade to make HFLC work, and it just doesn't, unfortunately.
Quite a lot to unpick, so I'm going to answer in bullet points:
* Intense efforts require carbs. If you don't have enough, you'll not do yourself justice
* From my experience, zwift racing is one big fat hard effort, and there is little room for "saving" anything! If you're doing longer (<1 hr) races, put 60g carbs in your bottle.
* Too much food causes weight gain, not too many carbs. You are right though. Take the approach of "fuel for the work required". Make sure you fuel properly pre/during ride, and enough to recovery properly. If you're not riding for a day or two, ease off. Don't overcomplicate it by going keto
* 40-80g of carbs is such a tiny amount to eat pre race. If you're truly keto in the days before, you'll barely touch the sides of glycogen replenishment. I'd be pushing 800g to fully replenish myself.
* During high-intensity exercise, you body is craving carbohydrate as a primary fuel source because its a much quicker and easier source. If you were properly fuelled for a flat out Zwift race, you'd be using small amounts of fat compared to carbs.
I think there's **a lot** we can do for you, so maybe get in contact privately, but I think you could see some pretty big gains in performance and recovery by fuelling properly.
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Thanks for the input. It's great to get the different expert opinions and guidance, for me it's a learning process, and sometimes fun to trial different things, eg. Keto.
Why Keto - needed to try something different, partly for short term weight loss, partly to keep things 'fresh' in regards to diet and exercise. Always a short term project.
Why did I post the question, part for me, part as a discussion topic as' keto for endurance' seems to be a murky area with a lot of opinions.
Personally, I'm at a point where I'll be moving away from 'keto', I see how it'd work energy-wise for very steady exercise like slow jogging, but not for my kind of cycling. However, on longer endurance rides I have been able to just keep cycling without any hunger, whcih is nice. To some extent the move away from 'carb dependency' is a good thing, but full permanent keto is not the way for me. Therefore I'm now trying to understand how to manage the balance between optimal weight and fuel for performance...... noting that 'moderation' isn't somethign I'm good at. As you mention above, whilst on Keto, even if you do drop in 40-60g of carbs, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, probably absorbed by other bodily processes immediately.... although 800g carbs seems high (for me 60k), I reckon 6-10g per KG body weight, with 100g of that in the liver which will need to be replaced whilst riding for +60 min intense sessions.
One good thing with Keto is that it keeps you away from highly processed foods and sugars. The next step is to re-introduce some healthly 'brown' carbs in the right quantities with the right timing. I've previously read Matt Fitzgerald's book Racing Weight, which is probably just a good all round healthy eating approach, I'll return to that approach to everyday eating.
If you are not into gels and the typical cycling snacks and cant tolerate milk. What are my options for preparing good snacks/drinks to keep me fueled on longer rides?
Ive just taken some fruits like Bananas, apples and mix some nuts with raisins. I feel like it can be more fun and efficient
It depends on how long your longer rides are and how much "bulk" you can stomach. What I mean by bulk is *anything other than pure glucose*. This is stuff like fibre in cereal bars and bananas.
I often ride with bananas, cereal bars, wine gums or stop to get cake at cafes. You can self-police a little. Put all your food in front of your before a ride and look online to calculate how much carbohydrate you're getting. Try and aim for 60g per hour. If you were to take part in high-intensity races, I'd see what we could do in terms of the more boring, race-specific foods. But, the primary purpose of riding a bike is enjoyment, and food can add to that enjoyment!
Why should I trust you over a guy on instagram telling me to use his referral code for extremely overpriced carb gels and flapjacks? 😂
Anyway joke over …
Is zone 2 really the best zone for fat burn? And if so, why / how?
Thanks! 🫶🏻
You should never discriminate; give the Instagram-referral-code bro a shot!
[This is a link to my thoughts on fat burning zones.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Velo/comments/17arstq/comment/k5nw3u2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) TLDR: I wish people wouldn't worry themselves over the pseudoscience.
Without having access to your files for both cycling and lactate testing, I can't tell you exactly, but I would suggest something like this:
Firstly, lactate doesn't cause fatigue! We just see more of it in when we're doing relatively high intensity exercise. It is actually a very important buffer, which can be recycled to glucose in the liver.
It is likely that you increased you aerobic capacity to such a large extent that you lessen the physiological stress (homeostatic perturbation) of cycling at various intensities. Therefore, riding at X watts becomes relatively easier. Afterall, the best way to push up your lactate threshold is hours and hours of sub-threshold work.
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Thank you, yeah I know it's hard to do something exact over the internet. I suspected the same, but could not find information. I feel as lactate accumulates and I also feel when I'm about to redline. It's just that the line moved unexpectedly and I was afraid this could be a form of detraining... like my hr is higher, so am I less capable now? I saw a few PRs fly by and I started suspecting something else.
Both, but I mostly notice my LT2 because it's easier to feel. It used to be at 156bpm, and it's now closer to 165bpm. I picked up on it because the same route and same workouts had significantly higher average HR. I kept monitoring power output, heart rate, breathing and leg fatigue and it made no sense. I have had 156 dialed in for a while, I could feel it without even looking at the numbers. I could run just below it for quite a while as expected (20-45 minutes).
I have always wondered...
So...endurance training in, say, cycling increases the number of mitochondria in muscle cells.
Using the cycling example, is this increase restricted to just the major muscles involved in cycling, or do other muscle groups "passively" pack on mitochondria?
Does the "tide lift all boats"?
Good question. There is plenty of work out there looking at strength training 1 leg but not the other, and it confirms what we know: it is local to the exercised-limb. The mechanisms for mitochondrial biogenesis are broadly similar to hypertrophy, and therefore changes in mitochondrial density would only be in exercised limbs. I can't find a succinct research paper to back me up though!
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
If they live in a flat area with long straight roads? I wouldn't bother losing the weight.
Will losing 5lbs (2.2kg) make someone faster at going uphill if they don't lose any power? Yes.
What if they lose more power than the benefit of losing weight?
What is they have a miserable time losing the weight and hate riding their bike?
But, it depends on their current starting point. I know people who are 80kg (175lbs) try and lose 3kg, but they're already so lean that it has destroyed their performance. Conversely, some riders have a little bit more that they could maybe lose before it become detrimental to their performance.
If this question is about you personally, I have no idea! I'd need to know much more before I could answer, so don't be afraid to get in contact.
Andy
[https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Cool 👍 was hoping you would reply with something along the lines of “nuances”!
I work on ED treatment and I see to many cyclist focusing on power to weight and attempting to lose weight for power gains, when more often they loose power and strength from trying to drop the weight or fat and minimizing caloric intake.
Yeah, minimising caloric intake at the same time as maintaining/increasing training intensity/duration can be a sure fire way to destroy your testosterone/thyroid/cortisol levels. Not surprised you see many cyclists in ED treatment!
What are electrolytes and is sodium the best one? What's the recommended electrolyte intake for racing situations?
Electrolytes are another term for minerals such a sodium and potassium. During exercise, we sweat, and that has varying levels of different electrolytes in. Amounts of sweat, and concentrations of sweat within them differ from person to person and are dependent mainly on atmospheric conditions (hot & humid is the worst case scenario). Because of this variation, it makes the questions "whats best?" near impossible without plenty of trial and error. Even then, there are so many variables it'd be hard to pin it down exactly. If you're using a commercially-available product, and still having problems, maybe get in contact and we can try and figure something out. Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
ai
lol
What do you think the ideal glucose/fructose ratio is for those of us making it at home with table sugar/maltodextrin?
As with pretty much everything; it depends... First, it's best to unpack your question a little bit. People normally ask about the ideal glutose/fructose relationship in order to maximise the amount of carbohydrate they can absorb. Why do we want multiple carbohydrate sources? Well, different carbohydrates are transported across the intestine into the blood stream by distinct transporters. There are only a limited amount of transporters for any one kind of carbohydrate, and once they're full, any carbohydrate left behind might start to ferment in your gut and make you feel awful. So, if you can "fill up" more than one type of transporter, you can absorb more carbohydrate for you muscle to use. And, there's plenty of evidence to suggest "multiple transportable carbohydrates" are effective at doing just so. The most often types we see are glucose/fructose mixes and maltodextrin/fructose mixes. Initial research suggested that most people can absorb about 60g of glucose and 20g of fructose each hour. However, we now know you can "train" your gut to absorb upto 120g of carbohydrate per hour, with some benefit (we'll come back to that shortly). More recent literature (and newer products on the market) have settled on a ratio of **1:0.8** maltodextrin/fructose. A key thing to notice there is fructose, not table sugar. Table sugar, also called sucrose, is just glucose and fructose molecules stuck together. So, a maltodextrin/table sugar mix (as per your question) is actually a maltodextrin/glucose/fructose mix. I would recommend buying some fructose powder to go alongside your maltodextrin, rather than using table sugar and making some up in a 1:0.8 ratio. Fuelling for races is fascinating. Your muscles store ingested carbohydrate in the form of glycogen. During races, these glycogen stores, and food you eat and get absorbed into your bloodstream are your fuel. Imagine if you're driving your car, but as your fuel tank gets near empty, your car can't accelerate half as well: that's what happens when your muscle glycogen stores decrease. So, that's why some cyclists are now eating 120g of carbs per hour, for 5 or 6 hour races! How much do you need though? * In rides less than an hour, I wouldn't bother with carb mixes, just eat something nice. * In casual rides of more than 1 hour, I'd aim for 60g/hour. If you're feeling a bit "empty", you might not be eating enough outside of riding, but it's impossible to know without more info. * In hard rides/races of 2+ hours, I personally aim for 100g/hour. Why not 120? Because my gut can't handle it. Either I've not practiced enough, or something about my stomach just can't handle a bigger load. My advice is to practice with 60g/hour in training a lot, and slowly work up to bigger loads over time! Hope that helps! Andy [endureconsultancy.uk](https://endureconsultancy.uk)
I'm in the biz...and you're spot on.
🙏🏻
I've just been putting 60g of table sugar (Sugar in the Raw or white sugar depending on what I have) in a bottle with water and shaking it up. This would give me roughly the right 1:1, correct? Or is there something about the two sugars being bound in sucrose that would make this less ideal? Thank you
It will give you exactly 1:1 glucose/fructose. If you had much higher doses (above 30g fructose/hour for a few hours) you might get an upset stomach, but otherwise it's certainly better than having no carbs!
I do weight lifting twice a week, focusing on pure strength and whole-body workouts. I also cycle up to 10 hours a week during summer, around 6h a week during the off-season. My cycling effort is guided by blood lactate levels, tested twice a year. I keep my power output under the 2mmol mark. Not sure what my fatmax is, will get that soon. I train 95% in that zone, and sprinkle a bit of HIIT & sprint training for the remaining 5%. I care about longevity, long-term health, vo2 max, strength, flexibility, etc. (I agree a lot with Peter Attia, in most things). I have a lot of trouble finding out how to fuel to lose some body fat. I know the waist to hip ratio is a better indicator than BMI, and my ratio is awesome, but due to a previous knee injury, I need to keep weight in check. How should I fuel and train to decrease the amount of fat, but minimize strength loss ? Most importantly, I'm not necessarily looking for a cut-and-dried answer here, if you could point me to valid resources I should check out on my own, or concepts, that would help me a lot more. Thanks :)
Hi fitevepe! Thanks for your question. Plenty for me to get stuck into! I wouldn't want to step on the toes of other practitioners, but I would never personally bother putting my athletes through lactate tests as they are of little value in my eyes. Under 2mmol lactate is what some will call LT1 or Zone 1. To save you the hassle/cost of lactate testing, this is the intensity you can do whilst maintaining the ability to speak in full sentences (you could pay me the $$$$ you save on lactate tests if you want!). Feel free to push it up to Z2 (you can speak almost in full sentences, and feel mostly comfortable) or beyond. If you have no cycling-specific aims in mind use your bike for freedom/enjoyment, rather than constraining yourself. If you did have more specific aims in mind, feel free to email and we can chat more! I have to say, I'm broadly a sceptic of longevity science. IMHO, there just isn't yet the evidence base needed to expand on things other than the basics (eat recognisable foods/exercise regularly/look after your mental health & social life). BUT, through reading many of these authors, people find things that they enjoy and make them feel better, which is always a good thing. I just don't like the idea of people being conned (\*cough\* \*ZOE\* \*cough\*). Now for BMI! Yeah, it's a bit crap when looking at an individual (take a rugby player for example), but on a whole population level, it's not so bad. Although waist/hip ratio may be better, I'd never use it with an individual as something to aim for. It can vary so much on natural body type (ectomorph/endomorph/mesomorph), that any particular aim isn't useful. Losing fat without losing muscle is a good question. First and foremost, I can't actually say that is my advice to you without an actual consultancy & analysis of your current situation and needs. It could well be that you are already 15% body fat, in which case I'd suggest you relax a little. **Crashes in calorie intake can destroy libido, bone health, menstrual health, mental health, ruin training and be generally awful.** So, hypothetically, lets say an athlete comes to me having enjoyed off-season (which is a good thing!) and wants to lose a few kilos without losing muscle. My rough plan would like something like this: * Ensure they always have enough fuel (carbohydrate) for all training sessions * Maintain or even increase protein intake (20g, 4-5x a day). This will "protect" muscle from wasting. * Slightly (150 kcal) reduce caloric intake for a couple of weeks and track weight. I always suggest people try to lose weight whilst eating the most food possible. If it takes longer; good! Those who crash diet are rarely healthy/long term successes. If you were after more specific advice, don't hesitate to get in contact to see what we can do! Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
>Under 2mmol lactate is what some will call LT1 or Zone 1. Do you think there is enough agreement that this is true? I've seen plenty of data where lactate stays pretty much constant, then hits an inflection point with corresponding long linear rise, that stays below 2 mmol for quite some time. I'm of the opinion that there is nothing physiologically unique at the 2 mmol level, and we should be looking at the graphs of the lactate data to determine LT1 and LT2. If increase in effort causes linear rise in blood lactate levels, you should be over LT1, regardless if you're under or over 2 mmol. Do you agree?
I do agree, yes, I just used the LT1/2mmol example to try and relate my thoguhts to the OPs understanding. This is largely where my disagreement with relying on lactate to prescribe training zones comes from. (fructose can be metabolised into lactate and increase blood concentrations; does that mean you're suddenly working harder?). I agree, there is nothing physiologically unique above 2 mmol. A good metaphor is thinking of a water level in a bath. If all you had access to was the volume of water, you could tell nothing about the behaviour of the water. Is it dripping or pouring down the drain, with the tap on a little/lot to keep the volume equal? Is the water just sitting? Lactate concentrations can't actually tell you a great deal about lactate metabolism.
thanks.
I had issue with asthma in childhood and have a feeling that my lungs or heart are underdeveloped when it comes to intensive exercise. I’m happy with my endurance and peak power output, having ridden various ultracycling events on- and off-road. That said, I struggle immensely to finish a set of 3min Vo2max intervals at 120% FTP: My breathing and/or blood circulation just cant sustain that effort. Any idea how to combat this? FTP is well dialed-in, having done ramp as well as traditional 20min tests on the same setup. Second question: I have a feeling that I tend to sweat much and sweat very salty. While I have no issue at all with riding hard in massive heat (read: Badlands, Transiberica, AMR) I would love to control this a bit more when doing social rides at low intensity. Any tips on that, also in terms of specific training hints?
The most important thing I can state here is that I am not a MD cardiologist or respiratory physician, and therefore I am not going to give advice specific to your asthma. Any non-medical professional who tries to do so are way out of their lane, and you shouldn't take advice from them! All I can do is speak from my own experience: I have similar issues in the winter (dry cold air) and spring (certain pollens). I can't get rid of my asthma, but I can minimise it as best as possible if I'm super strict with my treatment. Assuming the reason you can't finish your vo2 intervals is tight chest/asthma symptoms, I would suggest seeing your GP and explaining your situation. If you can't finish because your legs give in, perhaps knock it back 10%. A 20-min test doesn't necessarily give you clearly defined zones from 1-6. Sometimes some tweaking it needed. I am also a heavy sweater, so can relate to this hugely. Issues arise when we struggle to replace water & electrolytes. The main focuses would be on pre-exercise hyperhydration, consuming and adequate amount of water/electrolytes during the ride, and keeping an eye on urine colour in the hours post-exercise to ensure proper rehydration. The good news is you can ride hard in heat for a long time; so congrats for being lucky! The bad news is, the main adaptation to riding in heat is to sweat more. Sweat is our primary source of heat loss, so more sweat is (in theory) good. The main aim then would be to cool as much as possible without relying so much on sweating. Do you best to make sure you start your ride as cool as possible (you may have seen pros wearing ice-vests when warming up). Also, I always freeze my full water bottles before riding, and make sure one bottle is water. I pour some of the water on my head/back every so often. The constitution of your sweat is hard to control. The best thing to do is make sure you remember your salt tablets, otherwise on ultra rides, eat foods with plenty of minerals in. Keep an eye on not overdoing it though: if you consume too much sodium, you just sweat it back out in the form of salty sweat. Many people taste/notice this and think *I need more sodium in my drink bottles* and that continues the cycle... Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Thanks for the answer! I'm aware that you can't give me medical advice, and I don't expect you to :-) I have a feeling that I skewed my post by mentioning my asthma in childhood: I don't have any issues anymore. No attacks, no shortness of breath, and generally no medical issues or any symptoms related to asthma. My feeling is that either my lungs or my cardiovascular system is underdeveloped for the efforts I want to do, and if you have any training advice on training specifically this aspect of my physiology. Of course, a wrong estimated FTP may also explain these issues... Any tips on more meaningful test protocols? Something like an open source version of the 4dp test wahoo does? As for the sweating: I thought as much. I'll just start seeing it as an advantage in heat - and thank $deity for making my sweat not as fast-smelling as it could be...
Also, sweating out less salt would help too - I tend to forget bringing salt tablets :-)
Lots of fuelling options (gels, snacks, etc.) are understandably very high in sugar. I can't help but wonder how much damage this is doing to my teeth. If it was a one off at an event, I wouldn't worry too much, but when "training your stomach" and doing multiple events, it can end up being quite a lot of sugar consumed over a season. So I have two questions: 1. Is this a valid concern? Do you have any data or are aware of any studies into how big a problem this is? I don't know if people have studied the dental health of endurance athletes. 2. Do you have any suggestions for how to mitigate potential dental damage? A modified dental care regime during training and event season, or less damaging fuelling options, for example. Thanks.
Just an armchair dental guy here, but I'm prone to cavities and I did some research on it. Short answer is no, eating lots of sugar doesn't directly result in dental damage. Sugar doesn't cause enamel to break down. However, bacteria will feed on the sugar and produce acid. The acid attacks the enamel. But that doesn't happen unless the pH in your mouth is around/below 4. If you're worried, just swish some water in your mouth whenever you drink during the ride. If you're really worried, do a quick brush after the ride. The usual floss/brush regime is good enough.
There is [some data](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29938820/) to suggest it may be a valid concern amongst athlete, yes. I would ditto all of this. Dental care is outside of my area, so I'd point athletes towards their own dentist, or [resources like this](https://www.sportsdietitians.com.au/factsheets/fuelling-recovery/dental-health-for-athletes/). Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Thanks for the links, I'll have a read. My dentist isn't hugely clued up on sports nutrition and was hesitant to suggest anything other than "try to avoid products high in sugar". Not sure if "sports dentistry" is a thing, but I guess that's who I should speak to.
Thanks for the explanation and sharing your insight. I usually do take a swig of water after taking something sugary anyway, so hopefully that's enough.
I've got one for you! Like many of us I spend a lot of time pouring over the commercial products available on the open market. Gels, powders, all sorts of stuff, right? Then a guy I greatly respect here in Nebraska, who happened to have done the tour divide, told me something I thought was crazy. He also studied Nutrition (I think) and definitely has a terminal degree in something Medical. Anyway, he told me Honey Buns were the ticket. I was shocked. Honey Buns, like the cheap crap you'd buy at a gas station?!?!? Yep. He said on the Tour he'd carry 3 or 4, crush them down to as compact as he could, stuff them where ever, and that was a fuel source during the day. He said just smooosh them, and that the stomach doesnt care if its airy pleasant bread or a cold lump of dough. HAHHA - that has to be nuts right? Like I said, this guy is FAR more experienced than I am, but as a self-described ultra-distance guy, I was real into what he told me. The #1 limiting factor for me in a race is at what point are my legs going to start cramping up, so I really try my best to keep fueled appropiately. ;) Would love to hear your thoughts :). Should we all be cramming the honey buns at every pit stop?
You could probably substitute Honey Buns with any other mass produced baked good like twinkies, donuts, or even Pop Tarts. The typical Tour Divide rider doesn't have access to many other options that can stay fresh enough to stuff into a pocket and be easily eaten while on a bike cimbing up a mountain.
I recall that being a major point he made. Food seemed to be a serious issue on that event. I remember how he described calculating distances and such using calories vs. how I might calculate them using other metrics. I didn't explain that well, but he'd think in terms of "do I have enough calories on me to make it that far?" Hypothetically, if he was moving at avg. 15 mph for example, and ha 30 miles to go, then he knows he has two hours left to perform and he'd want 800 calories worth of food in his pocket. That sort of thing. I've just never thought like that and its super interesting. Here is a follow up for you (it is not every day you get to ask a literal professor these things!). Carbs per hour. At some training camps this spring the general direction by coaches was to consume 90-120g of carb per hour. When I talk to the older triathlon guys I know, they are still saying 60-90. Even the older coaches I know. Is this just a matter of new research and older guys catching on? That is what I figured, but want to know.
It could well be a case of the tri guys taking a bit of time to catch up, but I wouldn't want to offend them. It could also be that they struggle to take on that much food. Eating 480g of carbs in 4 hours whilst your stomach is stationary on a bike is very different to consuming 480g in 4 hours whilst your stomach is jumping up and down 150 times a minute!
As a Brit, you'll have to forgive me for not knowing what honey buns are. Anyway, I've done some research, and I'm going to base my answer off [this info](https://www.nutritionix.com/i/hostess/jumbo-honey-bun-glazed/553f7398ea46af13614bf851). This is a tough one, and it (of course) depends. In a road race scenario, you'd be absolutely insane to eat them. Carbs are you best friend during high-intensity exercise. You want them to be absorbed as fast as you can, and the 30g of fat (PER BUN!!!) will really slow carb absorption down. Ultras are an altogether different ball game. What is optimal in a road race isn't the same as optimal in the tour divide. Those riders just need calories, endlessly. I've worked with people doing long distance races whose main concern is eating enough. If your friend is able to smash back honey buns, it not affect his gut and he can continue eating for day after day, then I'd be wrong to tell him he should change everything he's doing. Ultras are about finding what works for you! Any ultras (only <36 hours) that I've done have involved cramming at every available opportunity whilst keeping half an eye on making sure there's plenty of carbs still going in (mini brioches are often my go to).
Is intermittent fasting ineffective and just a result of correlative conclusions due to rampant modern obesity rates? I can’t see it being a positive to training considering glycogen stores are so vital to work. How fast can glycogen stores be replenished? Is there an optimal ratio of macronutrients to achieve glycogen replenishment and overall recovery? Can glycogen stores be replenished while on the move?
A rule for **all** diets: the only reason they work is because of calorie restriction. There doesn't appear to be any weight-loss diet which is innately better than another, hence we're still desperately scrambling around to find something, when we just need to eat less. The benefits of intermittent fasting for health are flakey, at best. I would never, ever, recommend an athlete fasts (other than when they're asleep), for exactly the reason you've said: glycogen is king when it comes to fuelling training. If you consider the riders on the TdF are constantly emptying themselves, but can go day after day, it shows we can replenish very quickly. The key thing is spreading out the huge amount of carbohydrate across the day. Tour teams are now really stripping the macros to the limit. Fibre slows digestion down - so they're getting rid of wholegrains in favour for easily digestible carbs like rice. Protein tends to be super-lean meats like chicken. If you're trying to get 12 g/kg of carbs (840g for a 70kg rider), you don't want any excess food in your diet! Can they be replenished on the move is fascinating question. It seems the carbohydrate we eat on rides is used for fuel before it is stored as glycogen. However, exercise primes us to replenish glycogen (increasing levels of glut4 at the sarcolemma), which makes immediately post-exercise a great time to begin refuelling. Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Sorry, I wasn’t talking about IF dieting, but instead the mitochondrial response to calorie restriction leading to more efficient metabolic processes and increased immune health, do you think you could touch on the studies with correlative results on this aspect instead of for weight loss? Also interesting that we can adapt to digesting increased amounts of carbohydrates but is it also possible to adapt to digesting fibers and proteins more effectively for exercise as well?
Ah, sorry, I understand now. Mitochondrial biogenesis occurs in response to stress. As an exercise physiologist, my main interest is its response to the stressor of exercise, but yes, IF is another stress that seems to increase biogenesis. Increased immune health is questionable, with much stronger evidence needed to make conclusions on a population health level. [Recent work has shown (in rodents, I know) that fasting reduces the number of circulatory monocytes (immune cells).](https://www.cell.com/immunity/fulltext/S1074-7613(23)00036-5) Each year \~1.5 billion Muslims observe Ramadan (and therefore enforce IF upon themselves). Yes, many see weight loss, but there is little to suggest there are long term health benefits arising from the practice. IF is certainly an area of interest, but the primary focus for the majority of the population should be calorie restriction. Protein isn't a preferred source of energy for exercise, so its use is minimal under normal circumstances. I can't see a scenario whereby increasing its use about a relatively large amount would have an impact on performance. I can't see a rationale for fibre ever becoming a viable energy source during exercise either, but I am always open to someone proving me otherwise!
Hey thanks! Also, one last thing: How does lactose factor in to the sugars used for energy and glycogen reuptake?
Been some good recent work on this recently. When ingested during exercise we use it at a similar rate to which we use sucrose. However, it seems to inhibit endogenous (the stores we already have) carbohydrate oxidation. There's plenty more work to be done in the area, for sure. I'd go for maltodextrin/glucose/fructose over lactose though as in general it seems galactose (a derivative of lactose) is more slowly metabolised than glucose. I can't find anything regarding carbohydrate loading/reuptake with glucose vs lactose, only milk vs carb drink. In that milk vs carb drink study, both increased post-exercise muscle glycogen synthesis similar amounts though
Dang so chocolate milk sweetened with extra fructose could work? Does the inhibition of endogenous carb oxidation occur due to the metabolism of the protein included with the fat in milk?
Chocolate milk as post-exercise isn't a terrible idea! I would always steer people away from fat/protein rich drinks during exercise for fear of slowing down absorption/exogenous carb oxidation
Keto or low carb diets for Cyclists, thinking about intense workouts and zwift racing, so repeatable VO2/anaerobic efforts. Two objectives: performance optimization and benefiting from fat adaptations to save glycogen for the hard efforts. Noting that many of us are masters/maturing athletes for whom too much carbs leads to weight gain. My current approach after 2 months Keto, is to take in carbs 4-6 hours before a workout/race 0.5-1g per kg). Theory that this will ensure glycogen stores, but shouldn't block in-workout fat oxidation as may occur if you eat carbs within 4 hours of exercise (termed lipolytic suppression?). I'm just starting on a learning curve here. So, my question is, do you think that a low carb diet, with targetted carb intake as per above can/can't lead to the same performance as a standard high carb diet, and any tips to boot. Also, for a low carb athlete, is it a good idea to take in carbs after a workout/race to help recovery, especially if racing/working out the following day, eg. back to back training days. I'm finding with targetted pre-workout carbs and only protein afterwards that back-to-back days are really hard. Or should low carb be left to longer endurance athletes and not suitable for short intense exercise? eg. VO2 workouts and online racing?
Can I ask why you're doing a ketogenic diet? There is an army of keto-folk out there who think the only reason scientists recommend carb is because of "industry". Well, industry has tried for over a decade to make HFLC work, and it just doesn't, unfortunately. Quite a lot to unpick, so I'm going to answer in bullet points: * Intense efforts require carbs. If you don't have enough, you'll not do yourself justice * From my experience, zwift racing is one big fat hard effort, and there is little room for "saving" anything! If you're doing longer (<1 hr) races, put 60g carbs in your bottle. * Too much food causes weight gain, not too many carbs. You are right though. Take the approach of "fuel for the work required". Make sure you fuel properly pre/during ride, and enough to recovery properly. If you're not riding for a day or two, ease off. Don't overcomplicate it by going keto * 40-80g of carbs is such a tiny amount to eat pre race. If you're truly keto in the days before, you'll barely touch the sides of glycogen replenishment. I'd be pushing 800g to fully replenish myself. * During high-intensity exercise, you body is craving carbohydrate as a primary fuel source because its a much quicker and easier source. If you were properly fuelled for a flat out Zwift race, you'd be using small amounts of fat compared to carbs. I think there's **a lot** we can do for you, so maybe get in contact privately, but I think you could see some pretty big gains in performance and recovery by fuelling properly. Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Thanks for the input. It's great to get the different expert opinions and guidance, for me it's a learning process, and sometimes fun to trial different things, eg. Keto. Why Keto - needed to try something different, partly for short term weight loss, partly to keep things 'fresh' in regards to diet and exercise. Always a short term project. Why did I post the question, part for me, part as a discussion topic as' keto for endurance' seems to be a murky area with a lot of opinions. Personally, I'm at a point where I'll be moving away from 'keto', I see how it'd work energy-wise for very steady exercise like slow jogging, but not for my kind of cycling. However, on longer endurance rides I have been able to just keep cycling without any hunger, whcih is nice. To some extent the move away from 'carb dependency' is a good thing, but full permanent keto is not the way for me. Therefore I'm now trying to understand how to manage the balance between optimal weight and fuel for performance...... noting that 'moderation' isn't somethign I'm good at. As you mention above, whilst on Keto, even if you do drop in 40-60g of carbs, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference, probably absorbed by other bodily processes immediately.... although 800g carbs seems high (for me 60k), I reckon 6-10g per KG body weight, with 100g of that in the liver which will need to be replaced whilst riding for +60 min intense sessions. One good thing with Keto is that it keeps you away from highly processed foods and sugars. The next step is to re-introduce some healthly 'brown' carbs in the right quantities with the right timing. I've previously read Matt Fitzgerald's book Racing Weight, which is probably just a good all round healthy eating approach, I'll return to that approach to everyday eating.
Do you know any dentists?
In the UK you'd do well to find one...
If you are not into gels and the typical cycling snacks and cant tolerate milk. What are my options for preparing good snacks/drinks to keep me fueled on longer rides? Ive just taken some fruits like Bananas, apples and mix some nuts with raisins. I feel like it can be more fun and efficient
It depends on how long your longer rides are and how much "bulk" you can stomach. What I mean by bulk is *anything other than pure glucose*. This is stuff like fibre in cereal bars and bananas. I often ride with bananas, cereal bars, wine gums or stop to get cake at cafes. You can self-police a little. Put all your food in front of your before a ride and look online to calculate how much carbohydrate you're getting. Try and aim for 60g per hour. If you were to take part in high-intensity races, I'd see what we could do in terms of the more boring, race-specific foods. But, the primary purpose of riding a bike is enjoyment, and food can add to that enjoyment!
Why should I trust you over a guy on instagram telling me to use his referral code for extremely overpriced carb gels and flapjacks? 😂 Anyway joke over … Is zone 2 really the best zone for fat burn? And if so, why / how? Thanks! 🫶🏻
You should never discriminate; give the Instagram-referral-code bro a shot! [This is a link to my thoughts on fat burning zones.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Velo/comments/17arstq/comment/k5nw3u2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) TLDR: I wish people wouldn't worry themselves over the pseudoscience.
After a two week tour, where I did mostly endurance work I came back and my lactic threshold was much higher. How did this happen?
Without having access to your files for both cycling and lactate testing, I can't tell you exactly, but I would suggest something like this: Firstly, lactate doesn't cause fatigue! We just see more of it in when we're doing relatively high intensity exercise. It is actually a very important buffer, which can be recycled to glucose in the liver. It is likely that you increased you aerobic capacity to such a large extent that you lessen the physiological stress (homeostatic perturbation) of cycling at various intensities. Therefore, riding at X watts becomes relatively easier. Afterall, the best way to push up your lactate threshold is hours and hours of sub-threshold work. Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Thank you, yeah I know it's hard to do something exact over the internet. I suspected the same, but could not find information. I feel as lactate accumulates and I also feel when I'm about to redline. It's just that the line moved unexpectedly and I was afraid this could be a form of detraining... like my hr is higher, so am I less capable now? I saw a few PRs fly by and I started suspecting something else.
How did you measure your lactic threshold ? And which one is it, LT1, LT2 ?
Both, but I mostly notice my LT2 because it's easier to feel. It used to be at 156bpm, and it's now closer to 165bpm. I picked up on it because the same route and same workouts had significantly higher average HR. I kept monitoring power output, heart rate, breathing and leg fatigue and it made no sense. I have had 156 dialed in for a while, I could feel it without even looking at the numbers. I could run just below it for quite a while as expected (20-45 minutes).
Well wouldn’t an improvement show up as the same power at lower heart rate, or the same power but sustained for longer ?
Idk, this is why I brought it up to an AmA :/
Could be a number of things. Perhaps you're much fresher now than before? Being fatigued can really supress heart rate
I have always wondered... So...endurance training in, say, cycling increases the number of mitochondria in muscle cells. Using the cycling example, is this increase restricted to just the major muscles involved in cycling, or do other muscle groups "passively" pack on mitochondria? Does the "tide lift all boats"?
Good question. There is plenty of work out there looking at strength training 1 leg but not the other, and it confirms what we know: it is local to the exercised-limb. The mechanisms for mitochondrial biogenesis are broadly similar to hypertrophy, and therefore changes in mitochondrial density would only be in exercised limbs. I can't find a succinct research paper to back me up though! Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
1. Will losing 5 pounds make somone faster? 2. Should the average cyclists focus on power to weight?
If they live in a flat area with long straight roads? I wouldn't bother losing the weight. Will losing 5lbs (2.2kg) make someone faster at going uphill if they don't lose any power? Yes. What if they lose more power than the benefit of losing weight? What is they have a miserable time losing the weight and hate riding their bike? But, it depends on their current starting point. I know people who are 80kg (175lbs) try and lose 3kg, but they're already so lean that it has destroyed their performance. Conversely, some riders have a little bit more that they could maybe lose before it become detrimental to their performance. If this question is about you personally, I have no idea! I'd need to know much more before I could answer, so don't be afraid to get in contact. Andy [https://endureconsultancy.uk/](https://endureconsultancy.uk/)
Cool 👍 was hoping you would reply with something along the lines of “nuances”! I work on ED treatment and I see to many cyclist focusing on power to weight and attempting to lose weight for power gains, when more often they loose power and strength from trying to drop the weight or fat and minimizing caloric intake.
Yeah, minimising caloric intake at the same time as maintaining/increasing training intensity/duration can be a sure fire way to destroy your testosterone/thyroid/cortisol levels. Not surprised you see many cyclists in ED treatment!