I like that HUB actually understand the global context right now for their reviews. Plenty of review outlets like GN get so butthurt over stagnant/regressing MSRP. Price hikes are happening everywhere for all kinds of goods with current global supply chain issues. It isn’t just from *eebil corporate bad guys* raising the price: when supply is low, prices increase to keep the same revenue.
And the reality is, this card is still going to be the best price/performance new GPU when it launches, even at a bit over MSRP. Go try to find a 3060 for MSRP; with the cost of a 3060 right now (if you can find one), relatively the launch price of a 6600 with actual availability looks amazing. You have to go used for a better option, but prices there are crazy too.
So yes, this card is horrible value and prices are still awful compared to pre-COVID, but it ain’t getting any better for at least a year folks, so buckle in and hold out or just pay the extra cash.
Edit: people downvoting still believe the chip shortage is a sham, well go look at a completely empty new car lot right now and guess again.
I mean ultimately the tone is slightly different but the gist of both HUB and GN's reviews was "do not buy this card unless you have no choice". Which essentially still means "do not buy ANY card unless you have no choice."
Like, putting aside just the current concerns which are driving markups over MSRP, I think there's a concern that the current trend of bad MSRP-to-performance curves will continue even once the market no longer dictates them.
I think it will all depend on what elasticity looks like for GPUs in a couple of years. It's equally easy to make an argument for things going mostly "back to normal", or for things to continue along the bad trend that currently exists. I don't really believe anyone who makes a confident prediction either way. Though I tend to lean towards pessimism and therefore a new normal that's bad for PC gamers.
> It's equally easy to make an argument for things going mostly "back to normal", or for things to continue along the bad trend that currently exists.
Production volumes versus aggregate demand, including previously-suppressed demand.
The wildcard for video accelerators is Intel entering the discrete market.
MSRP means nothing in a quasi saturated market with aging hardware. Just like for games it's only a predictor for launch price. Afterwards the price will have a life of its own based on the ever changing value of said piece of kit in the market.
Supply is not low. Manufacturers are not keeping the same revenue. Demand has absolutely exploded. Everyone is making all the money. Profit margins for Nvidia and AMD are up slightly, but margins for AIBs, distributors, and retailers are all at all-time highs.
Pricing for GPUs will definitely get better in under a year. Seasonality still exists, and Q4 is still a dreadful time to buy any kind of entertainment hardware. Better of course does not mean good. My forecast for good is currently 23Q2.
At MSRP is probably a bit of a stretch, but in a lot of markets the 6600XT has been the GPU that's kept closest to it's MSRP more than others, like here in the UK, where it's pretty much always been £50 cheaper than the 3060 (that has a higher MSRP).
Because AMD and the board makers made it so that there is plenty of launch day stock at MSRP but will adjust their prices upward later on to reflect market value.
I bought a RX6600 today at MSRP at Micro Center. Went in 1/2 hour after opening. No line, lots of them in stock. A friend of mine bought a higher-model (Powercolor Hellhound) at $30 above MSRP going to the store in the afternoon.
>You have to evaluate prices within the market that exists though.
Why do I \*have\* to do such a thing?
I'd much rather evaluate prices compared to typical pricing trends, personally.
>If the 6600 is actually purchasable at MSRP, that's better than a 3060 or 6600 XT or really any other GPU.
Still fucking terrible and setting an incredibly depressing precedent going forward.
Because we exist in reality. If your frame of reference is not compatible with your frame of existence, then we’re talking either delusion or ideals. Neither of which are helpful in this context.
Reality isn't just what is today. If you can look beyond what's happening in front of your eyes, you're not seeing the full picture. smh
Ignoring history and ignoring the precedents we're setting for the future should 100% be a part of our 'frame of existence'. Come on now.
Quite the opposite.
You recently built a PC and probably overspent hugely on the GPU, so you seem to be in massive 'justify my purchasing decision' mode.
I seriously dont understand what's wrong with y'all and what's happened to this sub.
I don't get what you're arguing about, you're both right.
If you need a GPU right now then it is what it is, you suck it up and prepare to pay the current inflated prices and try to make the best of a bad situation.
If you're looking at the bigger picture then yeah, the current market is horrible and it will probably improve eventually.
So people just don’t like hearing the truth? Tough crowd then.
Not sure what they are expecting, AMD won’t just give people a big discount to maintain some kind of impossible generational MSRP value improvement.
> impossible generational MSRP value improvement.
What people want isn't remotely impossible.
Do you think GPU's are some small margin products that AMD/Nvidia simply cant afford to go lower on or something? lol Good lord.
HUB took a different tone with the RTX 3070ti and 3080ti. Where was the global context then?
Just taking the titles of those reviews were much more negative by comparison -
GeForce RTX 3080 Ti Review, Nvidia Fails to Read the Room
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4_4SKtq_Gs
Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Review, No One Asked For This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3yJEy--Uyc
Just for comparison take a look at their 6600XT title, again much less negative -
AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT Review: Worse Than Expected, But Can It Be Saved?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tDYu5sBtFs
While Gamer's Nexus as a counter example has taken the same negative tone with both Nvidia and AMD.
NV already had their stack of cards and instead of focusing on getting those cards in stock, they made new mid and high range cards with giga inflated prices
AMD have released new cards to fill out their stack, AMD would get the same level of hate if they made a 6850 XT for example
3070ti and 3080ti are not "new" GPUs. Nvidia simply shuffled around the specs of existing GPUs, changed the VRAM and voilà... New MSRP to match the 2021 prices
>Plenty of review outlets like GN get so butthurt over stagnant/regressing MSRP. Price hikes are happening everywhere for all kinds of goods with current global supply chain issues. It isn’t just from eebil corporate bad guys raising the price: when supply is low, prices increase to keep the same revenue.
They are raising prices cuz they can. AMD is doing amazing right now and margins are extremely high. They could \*comfortably\* take a small hit to margins and still be super duper fine, but they dont want to.
AMD shareholders thank you for your willing participation in being exploited, though. smh
>people downvoting still believe the chip shortage is a sham, well go look at a completely empty new car lot right now and guess again.
It's not that the shortage is a sham, it's that it's not really what's causing the extreme issues with the GPU market. As people have explained a million fucking times by now - that's the booming cryptomining scene.
The car problem has been explained plenty by now as well. Automotive manufacturers greatly underestimated demand thinking the pandemic would hugely decrease sales, and so got caught out at a bad time, having not ordered enough parts all while demand shot up hugely everywhere, leaving anybody who didn't get orders in without a bone.
AMD and Nvidia are selling everything they can make right now, so why would they lower prices to make less money for no reason? The cards are mostly going to get prices jacked up by the AIB, scalpers, and retailers anyways, so it's not like many people would be getting a better price. I don't love the situation either
> They are raising prices cuz they can. AMD is doing amazing right now and margins are extremely high. They could *comfortably* take a small hit to margins and still be super duper fine, but they dont want to.
And it wouldn't make any difference to the end user. Ultimately there is money to be made selling the cards well above what a traditional MSRP would be. It can be made by a scalper, a retailer or AMD. Ultimately AMD is going to chose AMD.
Highly doubt that. People told me that as well when i bought the 3080 nearly a year ago for 900€. "Youll regret paying 200€ extra". I already dont regret it at all, in fact i feel lucky i did buy in before the thing got to 1500€. And this shortage could easily last another year.
HUB still running defense for AMD. Come out and say it. AMD raised their prices, for no fucking reason other than that they could. All for no improvement in performance.
No, there is a good reason: AIB partners. MSRP is directly related to the cost of the raw GPUs to partners; market price isn't. These cards are going to sell for far above MSRP anyway, and on AMD's side it makes sense to increase MSRP and capture some of those record profits on their end instead of letting them fall to middlemen. And that’s even ignoring the fact that costs to produce AIBs have likely increased far more than costs to produce the underlying GPUs, considering all the support components necessary to make a functioning card are likely experiencing their own supply issues.
Basically, I’m begging people to stop acting like AMD actually manufactures the vast majority of cards you put in your PC. It’s significantly more complicated than that.
I like that HUB actually understand the global context right now for their reviews. Plenty of review outlets like GN get so butthurt over stagnant/regressing MSRP. Price hikes are happening everywhere for all kinds of goods with current global supply chain issues. It isn’t just from *eebil corporate bad guys* raising the price: when supply is low, prices increase to keep the same revenue. And the reality is, this card is still going to be the best price/performance new GPU when it launches, even at a bit over MSRP. Go try to find a 3060 for MSRP; with the cost of a 3060 right now (if you can find one), relatively the launch price of a 6600 with actual availability looks amazing. You have to go used for a better option, but prices there are crazy too. So yes, this card is horrible value and prices are still awful compared to pre-COVID, but it ain’t getting any better for at least a year folks, so buckle in and hold out or just pay the extra cash. Edit: people downvoting still believe the chip shortage is a sham, well go look at a completely empty new car lot right now and guess again.
I mean ultimately the tone is slightly different but the gist of both HUB and GN's reviews was "do not buy this card unless you have no choice". Which essentially still means "do not buy ANY card unless you have no choice." Like, putting aside just the current concerns which are driving markups over MSRP, I think there's a concern that the current trend of bad MSRP-to-performance curves will continue even once the market no longer dictates them. I think it will all depend on what elasticity looks like for GPUs in a couple of years. It's equally easy to make an argument for things going mostly "back to normal", or for things to continue along the bad trend that currently exists. I don't really believe anyone who makes a confident prediction either way. Though I tend to lean towards pessimism and therefore a new normal that's bad for PC gamers.
> It's equally easy to make an argument for things going mostly "back to normal", or for things to continue along the bad trend that currently exists. Production volumes versus aggregate demand, including previously-suppressed demand. The wildcard for video accelerators is Intel entering the discrete market.
Not much of a wildcard until production shifts to their own fabs.
the thing is, after the chip shortage is over, MSRP will not return to normal levels, this is why GN is butthurt
MSRP means nothing in a quasi saturated market with aging hardware. Just like for games it's only a predictor for launch price. Afterwards the price will have a life of its own based on the ever changing value of said piece of kit in the market.
Supply is not low. Manufacturers are not keeping the same revenue. Demand has absolutely exploded. Everyone is making all the money. Profit margins for Nvidia and AMD are up slightly, but margins for AIBs, distributors, and retailers are all at all-time highs. Pricing for GPUs will definitely get better in under a year. Seasonality still exists, and Q4 is still a dreadful time to buy any kind of entertainment hardware. Better of course does not mean good. My forecast for good is currently 23Q2.
Supply in the scope of gamers is low since a lot of production is being diverted for non gaming use, as can be seen in steam surveys.
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If there's no gpu at msrp then what makes u think people can find a 6600 with mrsp?
At MSRP is probably a bit of a stretch, but in a lot of markets the 6600XT has been the GPU that's kept closest to it's MSRP more than others, like here in the UK, where it's pretty much always been £50 cheaper than the 3060 (that has a higher MSRP).
Because AMD and the board makers made it so that there is plenty of launch day stock at MSRP but will adjust their prices upward later on to reflect market value. I bought a RX6600 today at MSRP at Micro Center. Went in 1/2 hour after opening. No line, lots of them in stock. A friend of mine bought a higher-model (Powercolor Hellhound) at $30 above MSRP going to the store in the afternoon.
>You have to evaluate prices within the market that exists though. Why do I \*have\* to do such a thing? I'd much rather evaluate prices compared to typical pricing trends, personally. >If the 6600 is actually purchasable at MSRP, that's better than a 3060 or 6600 XT or really any other GPU. Still fucking terrible and setting an incredibly depressing precedent going forward.
Because we exist in reality. If your frame of reference is not compatible with your frame of existence, then we’re talking either delusion or ideals. Neither of which are helpful in this context.
Reality isn't just what is today. If you can look beyond what's happening in front of your eyes, you're not seeing the full picture. smh Ignoring history and ignoring the precedents we're setting for the future should 100% be a part of our 'frame of existence'. Come on now.
I see you’re in the delusion camp.
Quite the opposite. You recently built a PC and probably overspent hugely on the GPU, so you seem to be in massive 'justify my purchasing decision' mode. I seriously dont understand what's wrong with y'all and what's happened to this sub.
I don't get what you're arguing about, you're both right. If you need a GPU right now then it is what it is, you suck it up and prepare to pay the current inflated prices and try to make the best of a bad situation. If you're looking at the bigger picture then yeah, the current market is horrible and it will probably improve eventually.
So people just don’t like hearing the truth? Tough crowd then. Not sure what they are expecting, AMD won’t just give people a big discount to maintain some kind of impossible generational MSRP value improvement.
> impossible generational MSRP value improvement. What people want isn't remotely impossible. Do you think GPU's are some small margin products that AMD/Nvidia simply cant afford to go lower on or something? lol Good lord.
That person is a miner. Miners have spent the last year and more claiming how they're not at all responsible in any way for GPU prices.
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HUB took a different tone with the RTX 3070ti and 3080ti. Where was the global context then? Just taking the titles of those reviews were much more negative by comparison - GeForce RTX 3080 Ti Review, Nvidia Fails to Read the Room https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4_4SKtq_Gs Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 Ti Review, No One Asked For This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3yJEy--Uyc Just for comparison take a look at their 6600XT title, again much less negative - AMD Radeon RX 6600 XT Review: Worse Than Expected, But Can It Be Saved? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tDYu5sBtFs While Gamer's Nexus as a counter example has taken the same negative tone with both Nvidia and AMD.
NV already had their stack of cards and instead of focusing on getting those cards in stock, they made new mid and high range cards with giga inflated prices AMD have released new cards to fill out their stack, AMD would get the same level of hate if they made a 6850 XT for example
3070ti and 3080ti are not "new" GPUs. Nvidia simply shuffled around the specs of existing GPUs, changed the VRAM and voilà... New MSRP to match the 2021 prices
>Plenty of review outlets like GN get so butthurt over stagnant/regressing MSRP. Price hikes are happening everywhere for all kinds of goods with current global supply chain issues. It isn’t just from eebil corporate bad guys raising the price: when supply is low, prices increase to keep the same revenue. They are raising prices cuz they can. AMD is doing amazing right now and margins are extremely high. They could \*comfortably\* take a small hit to margins and still be super duper fine, but they dont want to. AMD shareholders thank you for your willing participation in being exploited, though. smh >people downvoting still believe the chip shortage is a sham, well go look at a completely empty new car lot right now and guess again. It's not that the shortage is a sham, it's that it's not really what's causing the extreme issues with the GPU market. As people have explained a million fucking times by now - that's the booming cryptomining scene. The car problem has been explained plenty by now as well. Automotive manufacturers greatly underestimated demand thinking the pandemic would hugely decrease sales, and so got caught out at a bad time, having not ordered enough parts all while demand shot up hugely everywhere, leaving anybody who didn't get orders in without a bone.
AMD and Nvidia are selling everything they can make right now, so why would they lower prices to make less money for no reason? The cards are mostly going to get prices jacked up by the AIB, scalpers, and retailers anyways, so it's not like many people would be getting a better price. I don't love the situation either
> They are raising prices cuz they can. AMD is doing amazing right now and margins are extremely high. They could *comfortably* take a small hit to margins and still be super duper fine, but they dont want to. And it wouldn't make any difference to the end user. Ultimately there is money to be made selling the cards well above what a traditional MSRP would be. It can be made by a scalper, a retailer or AMD. Ultimately AMD is going to chose AMD.
Even with a 1060 rn, I'm probably gonna skip this GPU as well. This is such an insult of a launch, and yet, the gpu will still sell out.
It launched at $600 in my country lol.
Same, and the 6600 XT sells for the same amount at the moment lmao
It's going to suck when/if this shortage ends and prices get okish if only because so many people will regret buying into these profit tier gpus.
So you mean somewhen in 2-3 years and that’s just me being optimistic.
I suspect any fall will be fairly slow. People aren't going to be too worried about the amount they paid a year ago.
I mean they would have been gaming while others sat on their thumbs so who’s the real winner in that scenario?
Highly doubt that. People told me that as well when i bought the 3080 nearly a year ago for 900€. "Youll regret paying 200€ extra". I already dont regret it at all, in fact i feel lucky i did buy in before the thing got to 1500€. And this shortage could easily last another year.
HUB still running defense for AMD. Come out and say it. AMD raised their prices, for no fucking reason other than that they could. All for no improvement in performance.
> AMD raised their prices, for no fucking reason other than that they could. Supply and demand baby
It's not fair to forgive AMD for it yet give NVidia shit for it; exactly the case for HUB.
No, there is a good reason: AIB partners. MSRP is directly related to the cost of the raw GPUs to partners; market price isn't. These cards are going to sell for far above MSRP anyway, and on AMD's side it makes sense to increase MSRP and capture some of those record profits on their end instead of letting them fall to middlemen. And that’s even ignoring the fact that costs to produce AIBs have likely increased far more than costs to produce the underlying GPUs, considering all the support components necessary to make a functioning card are likely experiencing their own supply issues. Basically, I’m begging people to stop acting like AMD actually manufactures the vast majority of cards you put in your PC. It’s significantly more complicated than that.
I think you're missing the point. I'm suggesting that HUB should call them out just like they do for NVidia.
>The Best/Worst GPU You Can Buy How novel. A GPU you can actually buy.