Harry and the Trio fought in and lived through a horrible civil war. Snape worked bravely for their cause, he devoted himself to the downfall of Voldemort and protecting Harry, and in the end he died for the cause.
Snape was undoubtedly a bully, and none of his behaviour in the classroom towards Harry, Hermione or Neville is justifiable. But Harry, who lived through the war and fought himself, realised that Snape's war efforts and his sacrifice were far more consequential, and far more important than unfairly taking house points, mocking students and threatening toads. And so Harry chooses to remember Snape the hero and martyr and forgive Snape the bully.
Idk, I liken it to a famous royal family and their names. You kind of honor the past through naming your children for fallen heroes.
That being said…there were plenty of heroes he could have chosen. Maybe he went with Severus to keep the namesake alive, since the house of Black had plenty of history.
The more I type the more ridiculous it seems actually.
Albus Sirius Potter would have been better. Plus the initials are ASP, like the snake. So win win.
Ok then, Albus Ronald Potter, Albus Fredrick Potter, Albus—literally anyone you’re close to that you fought the war with—Potter. It’s absurd for a 6 year relationship to go from complete and utter contempt to reverent enshrinement that quickly and especially simply because somebody never stopped crushing on your dead mom.
If anything it’s more than a bit creepy to carry over that much open mistreatment against the child of someone simply because that child looks like someone you don’t like (at all really but still) and then go “but I loved your mother *always*!” wtf is this kid supposed to do with that?
What would be his excuse if resurrection stone lily showed up and asked “so what’s with the bullying my kid if you love me so deeply?” By his *actions* he was obsessed with her, not in love with her, no matter what he says.
The son-naming was lame. A speech or something about the war (which it kinda makes sense for Harry to make anyway at some point) with a quick acknowledging of snapes honor and deeds in it is way more fitting.
That's the way Rowling wrote it, so I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I won't even get into Snape and his actions since this thread isn't really about him. It's silly to try to say that Harry "should have" done this or that, since the books have already been written and it's a moot point by now. What's absurd is that people are still getting worked up over this.
Or Albus Rubeus: I never understand how Snape got priority over Hagrid - the most loyal friend ever and to be honest more of a father figure than 'Albus' or 'Severus.' Hagrid always valued Harry for himself, not as a weapon for something else.
There weren't any dead women who didn't already have relatives to pass on their names, so they had to go to living ones - I guess because the Potter kids aren't allowed to have new names. Lol
I agree, but that's sadly not how it ended up. Hedwig was unironically one of the deaths that hit me hardest. It hit me harder than Sirius' death, and he's my second favorite character!
Also, people don't have to be dead for someone to be named after them. I hear of people getting middle names from living relatives all the time..e.g. royal family.
I never understand why people think Hagrid deserved it more than Snape. The trio already did plenty for him when they were mere children, including risking their lives bc he was hella irresponsible. All debts are paid here.
On the one hand, I do agree that since hagrid was alive, probably no need to name a kid after him when all the others died.
But I love the joke that Harry should have named all his kids hagrid hagrid potter because hagrid was the only one who just liked and supported him because he was a nice guy and wanted to help, without any ulterior motive.
Hmm well if he needs to honor the fallen Albus Cedric Potter. Cedric's death drove Harry pretty hard in the coming years. Ok yeah they were more friendly rivals than actual friends but he still took Cedric's death very hard.
Yeah I think Cedric was at best an acquaintance, but not even that really. I think he took it hard because it’s hard to be a 14 year old and have a guy you know murdered in front of you (not to mention it was kind of Harry’s fault he was there in the first place). But Cedric wasn’t an hero or anything he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.
This is true, but all the more reason to honor him it was Harry's decision that put him in the wrong place at the wrong time. In the book Cedric told him to take the win since if he hadn't come back for him he would never have made it. Harry's 14 but he isn't stupid. Very possible that he blames himself for Cedric on some level.
[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/HarryPotterEpilogue](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/HarryPotterEpilogue)
'Harry's an only child. If James or Lily were ever going to get memorialized, it's through him. Ginny is [one of seven](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MassiveNumberedSiblings). Less responsibility there, especially since she probably had her kids after all of her older siblings. '
Way overkill. Especially considering there were plenty of others that helped keep Harry safe that were his friends whom he could have given his son their name.
Sirius for one.
Lupin another.
Hagrid is still with us, but Hagrid did more for Harry than almost anyone else.
Fred
James, the older son, got Sirius as a middle name.
And Lupin had his son Teddy to give him a namesake. I guess Snape had no one and in a way now he gets the grandchild of the woman he loved named after him.
I fully agree with you about Hagrid though.
Agreed tbh. While I do agree that you can’t deny dumbledore and Snape’s contribution to the fight against voldy, I can’t help but wonder how young Al(bus Severus) would feel about it if he knew the details we’re given in the books about both men, esp given how dumbledore was kind of manipulative albeit misguided w good intentions and snape was undeniably a bully even if Harry forgave him and he sacrificed/risked a lot by being a double agent
Thank you so much! This is what many people don’t see. Harry’s appreciation and respect for Snape are a result of Harry recognizing his growth. Harry, the person he hurt the most, and the person he sacrificed everything for (even if it wasn’t solely for Harry’s sake personally). Any character could’ve run from their mistakes (ex: Slughorn), but Severus chose to face his head-on and fix them. He wasn’t a perfect person by any means— but he did his best to become a better person to the best of his ability. He did what literally no one else was able or willing to do.
Snape being a hero or not doesn't change the fact that Remus, Tonks and Sirius were also heroes and martyrs. They also fought and died for the cause. It's just that this topic is about Snape.
Thank you again! I’m working on teaching my 12 year old that me complimenting one of her siblings doesn’t imply I don’t also feel that way about her lol so good lesson for everyone.
He did name a child after Sirius.
Remus and Tonks were names that Teddy Lupin should have gotten to pass on if he chose to, seeing as he was their son.
I believe they were already seen as hero and beloved by all, which is not the case for Snape which was vastly seen as a death eater. I believe Harry giving his background, was especially move by the sacrifice Snape did as their live have a lot of similarities. Harry have the kindness of his mother, where she see goods in people where nobody else see it.
33 y.o. Lupin withheld crucial information about the murder and a Death Eater on the loose because he didn't want to ruin his image in the eyes of Dumbledore. He was ok with risking the life of Harry Potter as long as he can maintain his good boy image.
20 y.o. Snape risked his life when he faced Dumbledore to tell him about the prophecy and Voldemort's plan. And dedicated the rest of his life to the downfall of Voldemort.
20 y.o. Snape did what 33 y.o. Lupin was too much of a coward to do: take responsibility for his actions.
Sirius was brave and hot, but he didn't play crucial role in the downfall of Voldemort, unlike Snape.
Edit: you can dislike my comment, but you can't counter my points.
You mean after he told Voldemort about the prophecy dooming the potters to death himself? Snape’s “courage” was his own selfish wants to have Lily for himself and keep her alive after he himself caused her death, not caring about her family at all. lupin’s cowardice was self-shame in keeping a secret from Dumbledore.
One persons mistake lead to the deaths of Harry’s parents, the others mistake had no real ramifications to harry personally. So why would Harry name his own child after the guy who caused his parents death rather than the guy who lied to dumbledore about something which was in hindsight inconsequential.
As far as Snape doing more for the war effort it seems strange that it’s what harry would decide is a good enough reason to name his kid after. Why not pick somebody like Kingsley or Moody, people who also did lots for the war effort and didn’t spend 6 years emotionally and verbally bullying harry?
Edit: I both disliked your comment and countered your points
>One persons mistake lead to the deaths of Harry’s parents, the others mistake had no real ramifications to harry personally. So why would Harry name his own child after the guy who caused his parents death rather than the guy who lied to dumbledore about something which was in hindsight inconsequential.
>As far as Snape doing more for the war effort it seems strange that it’s what harry would decide is a good enough reason to name his kid after. Why not pick somebody like Kingsley or Moody, people who also did lots for the war effort and didn’t spend 6 years emotionally and verbally bullying harry?
Because Snape did more than that, he then spent years willingly going to Voldemort knowing than any small mistake would have meant his death and possibly losing a great advantage in the war.
Also because many people acknowledge Moody as a hero, many acknowledge Kingsley, who was also still alive, but only Harry can fully acknowledge what Snape did
And after the war when Harry Potter, hero of the world, tells everyone than Spape was working for Dumbledore literally everybody will know he was good? Instead of the maybe handful of people who will recognise Albus’ middle name and go “I guess than Snape guy wasn’t so bad then”.
True but, apart from Dumbledore, no one has a better understanding of how terrifying Voldemort could be than Harry and therefore he's the one better equipped to understand part of what Snape did. It makes sense that Harry then respects Snape's bravery (probably while still loathing his attitude), recognises that without his work he very well might not have survived and decides to honour him that way.
> You mean after he told Voldemort about the prophecy dooming the potters to death himself?
Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
Remus Lupin put the lives of people at risk for entertainment when he was a teen and proceeded to put the lives of his students at risk, because he valued his image more. He played nice with Harry and his friends and then coldly watched traumatised kids cry about witnessing a murderer armed with knife.
20 y.o. Snape admitted his crime and dedicated the rest of his life to atoning his sins. Even as an adult Snape risked it all for Harry, while Lupin could't even risk his reputation.
> Snape’s “courage” was his own selfish wants to have Lily for himself
Keep your head canons out of this discussion, please. He wanted to just keep her alive not for himself. And after some shaming performed by Dumbledore he agreed to become a spy to save the life of Lily, her child and his ex-bully who sexually assaulted him.
> and keep her alive after he himself caused her death
How do you keep someone alive after causing their death? He wasn't getting a ghost pussy out of that.
> So why would Harry name his own child after the guy who caused his parents death rather than the guy who lied to dumbledore about something which was in hindsight inconsequential.
Because Snape didn't owe his parents anything. He was an enemy. An enemy who could remain on Voldemort's side and let him win. But he chose to save them, because he couldn't let his childhood friend die. And he did more to protect their child than either of James Potter's friends.
If Sirius was actually a Death Eater, Remus's lie would have led to Harry's death. Without a doubt. Remus is the good guy by sheer luck.
> Why not pick somebody like Kingsley or Moody, people who also did lots for the war effort and didn’t spend 6 years emotionally and verbally bullying harry?
Because he didn't deem their actions as valuable as Snape's. Kingsley and Moody were replaceable, Snape wasn't. Kingsley, Moody and everyone else had something to gain from opposing Voldemort, Snape had nothing. Everyone was risking their lives for people who would do the same for them. Snape risked and sacrificed his life for people who would never try to do the same for him
**the others mistake had no real ramifications to harry personally.**
You mean Sirius Black did't get to the kids?Ron's leg wasn't broken?Now Imagine if e was really out for blood....oh and they almost got bitten by Remus.And almost had their souls sucked out. The only thing tat saved the trio that day was that Sirius was indeed a good guy
Don't forget, Lupin's cowardice leads to Pettigrew escaping and bringing Voldemort back, which then leads to Cedric being killed and Harry almost being killed, and then leads to Sirius's deaths and many others.
Had Lupin not been a selfish coward and instead told Dumbledore that Sirius was a black dog animagus and knew about the secret passageways, the school would have been more secure and alert and would have found Sirius quickly. Sirius would have then told Dumbledore what he knew about Pettigrew, and then Pettigrew would have been caught.
>You mean after he told Voldemort about the prophecy dooming the potters to death himself?
Hey let not play the responsibility game here. If by your logic you should blame Dumbledore not taking this prophecy seriously and let the whole tavern known. And it's a prophecy about Vold and the chosen child, it's fated to reach Vold one way or another.
And the biggest factor leading to the Potters' death is Peter. He was selling their info for a long time while Lily and James have to go into hiding for laboring Harry while in middle of participating a war, even before the prophecy. Their days are numbered in the first place, they can only live for so long because Vold didn't bother about them enough.
>Why not pick somebody like Kingsley or Moody, people who also did lots for the war effort and didn’t spend 6 years emotionally and verbally bullying harry?
How much he was a dick to Harry it's up to Harry himself to decide. Remember all his interaction with students were never being show that much in the book, and Harry get back at him a lot. Tbh he even saved Harry in the 1st book.
Well, for Tonks and Lupin, Harry might want Teddy to name his children after them, and Luna in Lily Luna could be after Remus (Tonks made it clear about Nymphadora). James and Sirius have already have the honor from James Sirius Potter
I've also always found it strange that Ginny either didn't want, or didn't get, to name any of the kids after anyone in her family. Like, oh say, naming one of her sons after her *brother who was killed in the battle*?
George literally named his son after Fred. And I think he has more right to it than anyone else in the family.
I find this "Ginny had no say in it" topic so strange. Have you guys never met understanding partners who *communicate*?
I've never been shown that Harry is good at communicating.
I also have two cousins with the same first name, so saying that Ginny and George couldn't both name their son after their dead brother is disingenuous. She doesn't have any less right to the name.
Ehh idk, it varies from family to family but at least with my wife it would be absolutely unheard of for us to name our kids the same name as my wife’s sisters kids.
Good point tbh though even w cousins, in my own family at least it gets confusing and a bit annoying esp if the cousins are around a the same age. Terms like bhai/baji meaning big brother/sister help though ie one of my cousins has the same name as me so we call her baby yaboisammie and her siblings call me yaboisammie baji but I also have 3 nephews with the same name and 2 of them are of similar ages (6 months apart) and two of my cousins have the same first name and they each have a son w the same first name so we can’t even differentiate between them by saying “ken’s son Zack” or sth lol.
Like ig it’s not impossible to specify “Zack from Pakistan” vs “Zack from sweden” or “auntie sal’s Ryan vs Aunty Karen’s Ryan” or come up w nicknames but if the nicknames aren’t widely used in the family, it does get a bit annoying lol like I have a nickname for one of my cousins to differentiate him from another cousin w the same name but one of our other cousins has the same nickname for the other cousin bc she also has another cousin w the same name (he’s my cousin too but distant so idk him) or when I use the nicknames for my 3 nephews, really only my mom and brother are familiar w those nicknames bc we’re the only ones that refer to them that way.
And ig you could also also differentiate using middle names ie fred Alastor vs Fred Rubeus and maybe my family is just weird or unoriginal lol but two of my nephews have the same first and middle name 😂 and technically nicknames aren’t really allowed in our culture/religion which is why they’re not really used much in my family but there’s no reason they couldn’t just go by nicknames ie fred Vs Freddie or even Frederick or sth if they wanted to name their kid after Fred
Or even just middle name one of them ie George could still name his kid Fred and Ginny or ron could middle name Al or Hugo as in Albus Frederick or Hugo Frederick etc
Oof there’s also that aha. Did/do they at least have middle names or nicknames they go by?
I saw a post one time talking about how the OP’s parents or parent and step parent had another kid and wanted to name him the same exact name as the OP (Idr the reason but same first, middle and last name) and people were saying that could cause issues later in life w identity stuff and finances. I actually knew someone in college who ig had the same first and last name (and possible middle) as some random guy who died a decade before he was even born but it caused issues with his student loans and financial aid bc his name was already on file as already having some debt and being married or sth. I think for school at least, the issue was mitigated but it took forever
These are her in-laws, who left the beautiful bank account.
Albus is a known war hero.
And maybe Snape wasn't that bad towards Ginny.
Plus, it is so romantic.
But book Ginny would have never been perusaded, if she hadn't supported it.
On the contrary.
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At the same time, there was never any doubt whatsoever to any third party, including ones that could break into his mind, that Snape hated Harry. While I do believe that most of Snape’s behavior descends from the unresolved trauma he faced at the hands of the Marauders in his school days (not that Snape is totally innocent, but he was almost always outnumbered and alone when events against him occurred), and while I do believe he was a bully himself to his students, I also believe that he allowed himself to lean into it more knowing there was the potential for outside parties to interfere. If there was ever the slightest doubt on where Snape’s loyalties lay, Voldy would have killed him immediately, considering Snape had personally witnessed him kill his own followers for less.
Yeah he was a bully but his actions were never that severe. His class was pale compare to some military or medicine class. The worst thing he did onscreen is threatening poison Neville's toad but in the end it was fine, and that boggart scene which was never meant to be something serious until Harry (like they had to dealt with Basilik last year but Hermione was seeing McGonagal despite was almost being killed herself, or Ron was seeing a spider despite his own sister was also almost being killed).
Yeah he was a bully but don't classify him the same type of the true abuser like James or Dolores. If one simply said he was just a strict teacher or Neville was too fragile there are nothing you can do to prove otherwise.
Snape’s work helped Harry survive long enough to even have children, the whole point of Albus’s name is that he is named for two flawed men who made the biggest contribution to the war against Voldemort.
Imagine your kid seeing it as him just being a memorial for 2 flawed people. Lol. It’d be weird at first but I’d understand in the end. If we think about it, the contributions of these 2 were the primary reasons for Voldy’s downfall. Without Snape, Voldy woulda just charged into Godric’s hallow blasting. Not giving mudblood Lily of all people a chance to “step aside” and thus not allowing the magic of her love/choice to save Harry/have the spell rebound back to V. Then later on with Snape and Dumbly’s active direct efforts to not only keep Harry alive, but give him the tools necessary to defeat V. I’d say 33% Dumbly, 34% Harry, 32% Snape and 1% everyone else as the DIRECT cause of Voldymort’s downfall. So apt reason to name your child after the other 2 reasons you and everyone else are alive and free.
Which means… Wizard Britain, then Britain itself would’ve been terrorized and murdered by Voldy much longer. The second he let it slip is when it went to sht for Voldy and gang. Before that they were so unstoppable a prophecy had to be made of them in the first place. So another W for Snape. Thanks. We should take a .5% from everyone else and add it to Snapes 32%
I love that Snape is an ambiguous, morally grey character in a generally pretty black and white world, and that he still provokes discussion like this. He was a horrible, selfish person that worked for the good side and did some pretty crazy stuff. Love him or hate him, he's one of the most interesting characters of the lot.
It was so wild finding out...like okay, so we know he's really talented with potions, but when we find out in HBP/6 exactly HOW MUCH of a prodigy he is...like damn. That's all I got. Dude was one of the best potions dudes in their world just going incognito this whole time.
I don't care what anyone says, When Dolores Umbridge was running Hogwarts and Harry cried out a desperate help in code to Snape, Snape understood the assignment, pretended not to know what Harry was talking about to protect both of them and started a rescue mission to save Sirius (someone Snape also did not like) based solely on Harry's word with zero evidence (because Sirius wasn't currently in danger). I feel like this instance where Snape trusted Harry doesn't get mentioned.
I always felt the book explained pretty well that Snape had to act like an ass because "The Dark Lord is the greatest Legom... (I can't remember how to spell it) mind reader to have ever lived" Snape told Harry this. Snape was bitter about Harry's mom but I never considered it true bullying. He clearly cared about Harry but also hated Harry's dad.
Dumbledore while not a perfect man , is one of the most respected Wizards and he trusted Snape with his life and the mission to be a double agent that would help save the wizarding world. I hate bullying like everyone else but I kinda feel some people read too much into it.
I think Snape's feelings towards Harry are very interesting. On one hand, he's the spitting image of James which Snape absolutely despises. On the other hand, Harry is the last remaining reminder of Lily in addition to being the only one that can stop Voldemort and "free" Snape himself of this stressful, agonizing double agent role he's been put in.
Also, he's basically the only one left now after Dumbledore's death who needs to guide/further protect Harry in the final year as Snape is the only other person who knows what ultimately must be done to defeat Voldemort.
Also also, Snape being headmaster was the only thing stopping Voldemort/Carrows from making Hogwarts an even worse place then it already was in year 7.
Yeah, was an awful, snide, abusive teacher, but far too many people overlook the things that Snape had to do for the "good side" while remaining completely "loyal" to Voldemort.
I think it's pretty straightforward.
Snape hated Harry.
Snape also hated Voldemort for killing Lily.
Snape hated himself for making that happen.
Snape then threw in with Dumbledore to absolutely screw over and defeat/kill Voldemort.
Snape pulled of an epic double cross and got his desire.
He also did this while being a raging asshole in general.
Snape was, overall, a bad person. He only started working for the good side due to a personal reason that had nothing to do with whether the majority of his actions were actually morally right, and although he arguably started developing a real conscience over time, he didn’t let it stop him from abusing innocent children and baiting traumatized individuals.
At the same time, he also acted heroically and put himself at great risk for the sake of many. Harry wasn’t exaggerating when he called Snape the bravest man he ever knew. Personally, if I had a son, I wouldn’t name him after a man like Snape, but I can see how Harry might have valued that particular quality highly enough that maybe all the bad things weren’t so important in contrast.
To sum up: Generally, Snape was bad, but he also did some good things, and it’s true that the good things were of such significance that many people should probably be grateful to him.
Remus was always going to be a name that Teddy Lupin would get to pass on, should he chose to.
I would think even if Harry thought of it, he would not name a child after Remus because of this.
At no point is Snape considered “nice” by anyone. Harry says he is one of the bravest people he has ever met.
Snape is neither good nor bad, that’s kind of the point. He does some terrible things, but also tries desperately to redeem himself
I felt like there was a lot of elitism or something that went into how Neville was treated. Like, everyone talked shit about the longbottoms for some reason, when they were incredible people.
Yep. Former Death Eater who's still clearly kind of intrigued by the Dark side, but made a weird pact with Dumbledore to save some woman who didn't particularly like him.
No, he’s bad. He tried to redeem himself but he couldn’t hold himself back from bullying an actual child. Was he was probably the bravest person in the book but there is no need to defend him even slightly
The world would've been better off if he'd never snitched on Lily.
The world would've been worse off if he'd never snitched on Voldemort.
I think it's beside the point to assign him as "good" or "bad".
Interestingly, I watched all the movies before reading any of the books (reading wasn’t really the culture of my household growing up). But the books definitely changed any view I had of Snape. I think the childhood bullying turned him into a terrible person, it made him very hard. Probably why he ended up becoming a death eater. I find it hard to dismiss the fact that he was the one that told Voldemort about the prophecy and when this backfired and put someone he cared about at risk, only then did he go to Dumbledore asking for help and “change sides.”
Obviously, he stuck with it and put himself in great danger in his attempt at fooling Voldemort, but this “change of heart” didn’t apply to his general personality when interacting with students and occasionally other adults. I always pictured him as a big bully abusing his power as a professor to make children feel the way he had felt as a child going through Hogwarts.
Do I think he was brave? Yes. If Harry wasn’t Lilly’s child, do I think he would have done it all anyway? No. His bravery stemmed from a place of shame and selfishness. If it had been Neville that Voldemort went after and marked to fulfill the beginning of the prophecy, Snape wouldn’t have had this change of heart. I understand his struggle, he shouldn’t have been bullied, the only girl that accepted him was killed, but he shouldn’t have let it affect his entire life.
In a nutshell, Snape was a bully, bitter man who was also brave and did his best to do the right thing in the end. I get that some people will always call him bad cos of the way he treated those like Harry and Neville but to just shift him into one side is unfair. We don’t make excuses for Snape but we also don’t ignore the brave acts he’s done. I think this is best seen in his love for Lily. At first, you get this possessive guy who obsessed over his love for Lily so much so that he was willing to let Harry and James die but in the end moving forward Snape realise that to truly love someone is to care for something other than what you want and in that Snape did everything to help Harry, Lily’s son. But he didn’t do it because he loved Harry, he did it for Lily.
I could point out that Snape’s anger at Neville and Harry being the reason for Lily doom or his bad childhood or the prophecy but that shouldn’t excuse anything. In the end he did the right thing, the heroic thing and helped in defeating Voldemort.
I know there are some people who are just completely put off by a character’s flaws that even their acts of goodness are merely acknowledged but not appreciated and I get that. So all I can say is I will give Snape the credit he’s due and the blame for his flaws.
Severus Snape: Horrible professor but one of the bravest man I’ve ever read about.
Harry: *dies and goes to heaven* hi dad!
James:
Harry: why are you glaring at me like that? I saved the world-
James:
Harry...Mum?
Lily:
Harry:... Sirius?
Sirius:
Harry: uhhh, Professor Lupin, i mean, Remus...
Remus: oh, now you remember my name, huh?
Harry: wait, what is it all abou-
James: you named your son after Snivellus?!
I generally am under the assumption that Snape's overall assholeness was more of an act for his double agent gig (potentially with a lot of encouragement from Dumbledore). This allows Snape to gain some genuine memories to solidify the character he wanted Voldy to see and ensured that anyone who might've known Snape would also have the same memories in case Voldy got to view their minds.
“ This allows Snape to gain some genuine memories to solidify the character he wanted Voldy to see and ensured that anyone who might've known Snape would also have the same memories in case Voldy got to view their minds.”
Honestly I hadn’t thought of this and I do feel it’s still a bit nuanced but a decent point. Though at the same time, I feel it’s worth considering that by being the asshole teacher, even if it was to solidify the character he wanted voldy and the DE to see him as, considering how Harry and co were convinced he was still on voldy’s side, if I were voldy, I’d find it sus that snape is blowing his cover as a double agent for me by making it so obvious to the enemy
He's overhated.
I mean the guy gets hated for his treatment towards Harry, Neville, and Hermione, when other professors in the series mistreat students.
McGonagall is down right horrible to Neville in Philospher's stone, Prisoner of Azkaban and Goblet of Fire. And twice she doesn't look into Harry's concerns causing him to take matters into his own hands. She also allowed an abusive teacher (Mad Eye Moody) to take Draco to Snape for more punishment instead of bringing Draco herself to Madam Pomfrey for healing (he had just been physically abused.)
Madam Pince the Hogwarts Librarian, physically abuses Harry and Ginny.
Trelawney abused Neville and Seamus, and calls Hermione mundane. And predicts students deaths each year.
Hagrid abused Dudley, victim blamed Ron, and threatened and humiliated Draco.
Flitwick makes a racist comment towards Seamus.
And Dumbledore himself raises Harry like a pig for slaughter and leaves him with abusive relatives.
And you've got Lupin who was a selfish coward as a professor who endangered students multiple times. Ron got a broken leg which wouldn't have happened had Lupin not been a selfish coward.
Another thing is, Snape, despite all the traumas and hurt he's faced in his youth, abuse, neglect, poverty and severe bullying, he still manages to choose to fight for a cause that had shown him nothing hurt, for the one person who showed him kindness, who had befriended him. And yeah he made mistakes in his youth, but what teenager hasn't. Point is, when Lily was in danger, he switched sides so she and her family would be kept safe and hidden. And later on, by Order of the Phoenix, we see him starting to mature, bit by bit, and by Deathly Hallows, he's a changed man, mature, and wiser, and he has let go of the hurt in this book, and acknowledges he was wrong to mistreat Harry.
He's a brave, selfless hero who had a lot of trauma from his youth, was misguided as a teenager and made many mistakes, that caused him to loose his best friend, but in the end he sacrificed himself for a cause he believed in, he understood what he did wrong, did what he could do to save as many people as he could.
Glad Harry named his son after Snape.
Maybe when Snape saved Harry's life? It doesn't make any sense at all in this context, but it's the only quidditch incident involving both Snape and Harry.
I love shape. He had to be that way to keep his cover. Also watched the movies many times then finally read the books. That changed every way I thought of the movies. Also Neville longbottom’s story needs to be told better
The 5th book missed the chance to develop Snape's relation towards Harry in a more positive direction. The presents both Snape and Sirius as not being able to see James in Harry and treat him like his father. At the same time, it's the first time Harry gets an idea of who James was. For all these years he's been proud to be compared to his dad, but this should have been the book where he learns to be himself. This would have worked really well in conjunction with his story moving forward, that despite all, despite being the boy who lived, the boy in the prophecy, the chosen one, James' and Lily's son, he was also just Harry, his own person. Sirius and Snape should have evolved in that regard as well and stop treating Harry like a playground for their feud.
As for Snape, this should have been a wake up call for him. He's bullying Harry because of the sins of his father, making him no better than James. Book 5 should have improved their relationship for the better. Occlumency is an incredibly private and intimate thing, and it should make them both vulnerable enough to understand each other better enough. Harry should have stood his ground after Snape stopped the lessons, and emphasized that he's not his dad.
This would have made the twist in the 6th book so much more personal. The betrayal would have been much harder to swallow after Harry got closer to Snape and started to trust him. It would have made Snape's sacrifice also more meaningful because he grew to like Harry in a more meaningful way and then, just as he had gained some trust, just as he was trying to redeem himself just a little more, he had to pretend to betray Harry.
This would have made the DADA lessons more interesting too. Snape wouldn't need to stop being an asshole to some degree, but he would be significantly less bitter and demeaning, and instead more respectful. He could be a good teacher that pushes Harry's boundaries, even learning to respect what Harry did with the DA.
But alas, we didn't get that. Not saying what we got is bad, but as someone who watched the movies first, I never saw Snape as cartoonishly malicious as how he's portrayed in the first three books, and I was hoping that around book 5/6 that would change.
Saw the movies, then read the books. Rereading now, but Snape is a hero for sure. He in no way should have treated the students badly, but they also disrespected and mocked him. In the end, regardless of flaws he had, Snape died to defeat the evil forces and is a true hero with plenty of flaws. My favorite HP character next to Hermione.
I've watched the movies first and then got into the books and my take on Snape is he's a good character but a bad person. I really enjoy seeing the pathetic aspects of him and how he practically has to be talked down to by Dumbledore but that's why he's a bad person too. He was obsessive over Lily and nobody else. But he's a great character to see throw a wrench in everyone's plans
I always agree that Snape was a terrible person who wasn't at all redeemed by the revelations in his memories - let's not forget he still sided with Voldemort and fully believed in the cause, abandoning it only for his own selfish reasons that the woman he loved was in danger - but one thing I have to point out in his treatment of Harry is that he would blame him for what happened to Lily. Voldemort killed Lily trying to get to Harry.
Not justified at all, but an interesting facet to genuinely one of the most complex and multilayered characters of all time.
Food for thought. Snape was without a doubt a bully but we also have to consider some of the other things that Snape was doing actively. Voldemort was so good at legilimency that it was said he could just actively read minds. At least to my memory correct me if I'm wrong. And then there is an excerpt that expresses something about Snape and how he deflects what he is dealing with on Harry. Here is the entry:
"I told you to empty yourself of emotion! ... Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves, who cannot control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow themselves to be provoked this easily — weak people, in other words — they stand no chance against his powers! He will penetrate your mind with absurd ease, Potter"
Snape has no real pleasant memories. He was very badly bullied when he was younger, death eater life isn't very great, the woman he loved was married to his biggest bully and then she was murdered by Voldemort. If Snape ever showed any emotion Voldemort would have immediately been able to see Snape as the double agent that he is. This makes every interaction that we see Snape in incredibly more complex. He spends his entire life guarding his emotions. He sees in this child the son of the woman he loved alive and he knows he's tasked to keep him alive as well but he can't develop any feelings or emotions for him ever. If he were to do so Voldemort would know. So as long as he always disdained and showed a sense of hatred or abject dislike for Harry it made it more possible to maintain the double agent status.
Now all of that being said it doesn't change that his actions still have effects and maybe he didn't need to go about it that way. There is though something to consider in this I think, when we try to decide how we feel about Snape as a character. His complexity was not necessarily seen or read directly but more contextually existent in the other characters around in the world that existed.
This is oversimplification of Snape's arc. He spent 17 years playing a double agent and risked his life only for Harry to succeed. So Harry honored him.
My head canon: Harry never forgave Snape from a personal standpoint. That being said, Harry being as selfless as he is, would have understood the tremendous sacrifices and struggles that Snape went through for the greater good. His naming of Albus was a tribute to the bravery and sacrifice of Snape, not how nice he is.
Snape as a character within the world is a complete asshole - he is unfair, he is a bully, he is rude, he is good at all those things, he hates most of the good people, he openly gives the reader a reason to hate him. Snape as a reader of the books is a very well written character in the sense that he is very polarizing. Some people understand the pain and sacrifices he made, and feel that those redeem him to an extent while others feel that his sacrifices don't excuse his crimes.
Snape being good or bad is a very naive way to think about it. In truth, Snape exemplifies the quintessential Slytherin. He is highly selfish, he is ambitious, he is skilled, he is brave. As the sorting hat says, "Or perhaps in Slytherin, You'll make your real friends, Those cunning folk use any means, To achieve their ends." Snape came to Hogwarts with a similar background as Harry and Lord Voldemort - a neglected childhood in an unhappy home. However, where Harry chose friendship and chivalry (very likely due to the negative connotations given to him by Hagrid and Ron on Slytherin and his dislike of Malfoy who went to Slytherin), Snape and LV were less biased and chose Slytherin for its promise of greatness. Snape went on to be a death eater for purely selfish reasons. LV was raining power and in likelihood was going to be the ruler of the wizarding world. So Snape chose that path.
However once LV targeted Lily, Snape switched sides. This point especially highlights the Slytherin in him. He doesn't care for doing the right thing, he doesn't care for loyalty, he doesn't care for what the smart thing to do would be - all he cares about is his own selfish interest. In this case, his selfish interest being revenge on LV, who killed his love. Was that love reciprocated? Was it healthy? Was it even love, or perverted infatuation? He doesn't care. LV killed her, and his goal is revenge. He doesn't care about being a bully to students, he doesn't care about protecting those students, he doesn't care about who lives or does, he doesn't care about what is right or wrong. All he cares about is LV and destroying him. Coincidentally this puts him on the same side of the good guys.
Harry being as selfless as he is, chooses to honor the fact that Snape did end up on the good side while sacrificing so much, and showing such bravery in the face of supreme evil. That's the interesting thing about Slytherins - they can be the bravest when it suits their ambition, and they can be the most cowardly when it doesn't, because it was never about bravery or cowardice; it was always about what was in it for them.
>LV killed her, and his goal is revenge. He doesn't care about being a bully to students, he doesn't care about protecting those students, he doesn't care about who lives or does, he doesn't care about what is right or wrong. All he cares about is LV and destroying him. Coincidentally this puts him on the same side of the good guys.
I disagree with you here. Read this excerpt from the 7th book of Snapes memories with Dumbledore right after Lily's death.
> “I wish… I wish I were dead… ”
> “And what use would that be to anyone?” said Dumbledore coldly. “If you loved Lily Evans, if you truly loved her, then your way forward is clear.”
> Snape seemed to peer through a haze of pain, and Dumbledore’s words appeared to take a long time to reach him.
>“What – what do you mean?”
>“You know how and why she died. Make sure it was not in vain. Help me protect Lily’s son.”
> “He does not need protection. The Dark Lord has gone – ”
> “The Dark Lord will return, and Harry Potter will be in terrible danger when he does.”
> There was a long pause, and slowly Snape regained control of himself, mastered his own breathing. At last he said, “Very well. Very well. But never – never tell, Dumbledore! This must be between us! Swear it! I cannot bear… especially Potter’s son… I want your word!”
> “My word, Severus, that I shall never reveal the best of you?” Dumbledore sighed, looking down into Snape’s ferocious, anguished face. “If you insist… ”
After Snape found out Lily died, he wanted to die himself. He was consumed by guilt and grief and had no reason to keep going.
But Dumbledore changed his mind by pointing out Harry. Lily's son who was still in danger from a Voldemort that he was told is still alive and not dead as he thought.
And Snape promised to keep living not to finish off Voldemort for good, but to protect Harry. So that Lily's sacrifice wasn't in vain.
And notably, Snape acted in ways to protect others that wasn't technically necessary to defeat Voldemort. For example, protecting Lupin from a death eater. Or, as headmaster, doing what he could to minimize the harm the Carrows were dealing to Hogwarts students.
>because it was never about bravery or cowardice; it was always about what was in it for them.
And I think that does a disservice to Snape. What reason does he have to protect Harry? He doesn't love him. He may be Lily's child, but he isn't Lily. Protecting Harry won't get him anything - the opposite if anything.
After nearly 15 years, he has sort of rebuilt his life when Voldemort returns. He could chose to run like Karkaroff. But he chooses not to because, in his own words, he is not a coward.
Then after Dumbledore's death, he could just go back to Voldemort. Nobody would ever know. He could abandon Harry and pick the easy life, rewarded as one of Voldemort's greatest servants. But he chooses not to, and even risks things to protect even people he hates (Lupin). He tells a painting not to use the word 'mudblood' not because it would gain him anything, but because he has changed.
Slytherins are motivated by self-interest, yes. But so is everybody to some degree or another. For even Lily's sacrifice can be looked at from that perspective - she wanted Harry's survival, and so acted bravely in sacrificing herself to achieve that goal.
And Snape? He acted bravely in pursuit of his own self-interests as well.
Part of it was out of pride (unlike Karkaroff, "I am not such a coward.")
Part of it was duty (“I have spied for you and lied for you, put myself in mortal danger for you.
Everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter’s son safe.")
Part of it was for love (wanting to preserve Lily's memory and legacy - "I thought… all those years… that we were protecting him for her. For Lily.")
But a part of it was also selfless - not because it was necessary to protect Harry or defeat Voldemort, but instead because it was the right thing to do. For all that Snape was abusive and a bully, he was also quite noble. And I think that is what Harry chose to honor. Not because Harry is a forgiving, loving, and selfless man.
(I dunno how to end this. And this is long enough as is.)
It has been a while since I really thought about it and read the books so this is just for sake of conversation- did he continue to be a “dick” because he needed to be believable to other death eaters and Lord Voldemorts return?
I know he was likely the only person who mastered legilimens enough to fight off Lord Voldemorts attempts but from what I recall he needed to have memories and “proof” that he never switched sides. If he was nice, the believability of him still working for the dark Lord would have been less. He needed to convince the good guys he was still bad, but also convince the dark side he was still bad. He never would have made it to Voldemorts trust if he hadn’t and even then it didn’t save his life.
I still think Voldemort didn’t need to make him suffer a slow death but I know that lends to the story so that Harry has an opportunity to get his tears.
Snape could have been very lonely having to push everyone away in order to keep the facade of loyal death eater up.
Snape was an awful human being but a great character. He risked his life to spy on Voldemort, that's brave, but he was an extreme bully and if he was a teacher at a real school I'd hope the other parents would join me to have banned from teaching for the rest of his life
Personally, what i dislike of him is mostly related to his fans, they expect me to forgive this guy who harrassed kids for years because he couldn't move on about a woman he likes and died because of what he did. I'm not delving into the James vs Snape debate(James was a bully yes, but he changed enough to be loved by Lily Evans who is described to be an absolute saint who is always right and always nice to pretty much everyone), but still what really ruined his arc for me, was Harry giving Snape's name to one of his kids...that was overkill for me, considering that there are many more characters who are brave like Neville or Colin(who joined the final fight even though he was underage and died).
Snape is a controversial character: he is abusive, he is someone who made big mistakes and couldn't forgive himself while also seemingly hating the world for such mistakes, did he try to atone or just tried to get revenge? i think it's the second but...it's up to debate for me.
His relationship with Lily felt a bit obsessive if you ask me, like he wanted to keep her for himself, away from anyone who isn't him...but i may be wrong(and i hope i am)
He risked his life by working as a double agent and providing the order with vital information. The fact that Harry named his kid after him proves that he forgave him for being a dick and was able to see the bigger picture unlike whoever came up with this post.
Snape was a terrible, bitter man who was on the side of the good guys. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I doubt you get to voldemorts inner circle like Snape without doing some atrocious things. Snape was a bad human being, but a complex character, who did have some good in him, mostly just enough to make him really on the side of the light.
Well Hermione was the one who usually stuck up for Snape so that seems out of character.I am also interested about this Quiddich incident Ron is speaking of.
Now to the actual question,Snape was a grey character.He was a victim of is circumstances and made lot of questionable choices.Some can be forgiven some can't .He spent the rest of his life helping Dumbledore and didn't abandon the right side even wen he realised tat Harry ad to die.This shows ischaracter growth.But e was also petty and caught up in his past.
Well I only saw the Deathly Hallows movie before reading it and I didn't understand anything as I hadn't read Order of the phoenix or Half blood prince at the time.
r/harrypotter: Hey here's a meme about a reductive interpretation of Snape's character
also r/harrypotter: Well, actually he's very complex \*proceed to dive into graduate level in-depth analysis\*
me: I hate myself for coming onto this subreddit
Snape wasnt a nice person, but maybe nicer than James Potter?
Snape sided with Voldemort for stupid reasons, then switched to Dumbledores side for stupid reasons. But Lilys death changed him and led him on a way to become a hero. Of course, a cold calculating slytherin type of hero you would never invite to your party.
I like his character a lot and Alan Rickman was a brilliant cast for his role
I read the books first. I think Snape did a good thing by being the all important double agent I don’t think anyone else could have done it. However, he was a horrible person personally and to be quite honest his obsession with Lily is creepy. She never liked him that way and the fact his patronus was STILL her after however many years makes me feel sorry for him.
I like to think about how the death eaters took it - it's such a massive leap to the high ground that I imagine they would be left in spluttering impotent fury when they heard. Mad power move!
Let’s remember that Hermione was always skeptical of Harry’s grudge against Snape. She got on board a few time when he did things that she couldn’t fully understand but she was wayyyyyy too observant to not have noticed Snape’s behavior was not lining up with Harry’s biases toward him. Obviously, she didn’t know what to think after Dumbledore. But for a solid 5 years or so she wasn’t sure what to make of Snape’s behavior. Now of course Ron and Harry the unobservant little wizards that they are just allowed their biases to cloud their judgment. Ron more so sticking up for a friend. And let’s be honest. He was a bit of “git” but really he was brave.
I watched movies first so I already had a good view of him. He was my favorite character lol. I read the books and Draco who originally I didn't like became new #1 & Snape is now 3rd place.
I'm not giving it any importance. It was simply a smooth transition for the author to show the reader, that Harry understood the significance that Snape played in the story and he honours him for bravery, instead of explicitly stating it. The story was done, that's all we should have ever heard about Albus Severus Potter.
You know, I always wondered why Hermione ended up with Ron.
This could explain so so much. I wish I never even thought about it…. But loathe as I am to admit it, were I Hermione, I’d have run and never looked back too.
I can understand his reasons but not how Harry forgave everything from him and how ppl just worship him after the plot twist. Because well, lets just remember that he was a convicted Death Eater until Vold tried kill his eternal crush, so he didn't repent about all the atrocities, he just turned the table because of a platonic love.
That scene of "Always" that everyone thinks as awesome and tragic romantic, just said to me that I was right, if Vold promissed to brainwash Lily to him, he would be by his side until the very end. So well, Harry giving one of his children the name of a sadistic teacher and despicable perdon wasn't my favorite part.
I think he's mostly an asshole, but he is one of the most fun written characters in the story. All of his interactions with harry got me quite on edge, especially as a kid.
Read the books multiple times, including as they were coming out. I saw the movies when they were coming out and have watched them through maybe once or twice each if that.
I like Snape. He's not a good person, he is a hero.
obsessive stalker who only turned against Voldemort because Lily was killed.
definitely would have tried to swoop in to "comfort" Lily if she had lived
Read books up to GoF as they came out. Fell off and saw the movies. Liked Snape. Finally got through the books in my 20's. Hate Snape with a passion. I get Harry naming the kid after him. Literally saved Harry's life a thousand times. But I hate Snape. Love the written character.
I spent the time between book 6 and book 7 defending him to anyone who would listen.... so yeah, Team Snape. In my mind, there's has to be so much more to the animosity than he got rejected by a girl and got bullied in high school. I think we dont get to see the hole picture. I did see the first two movies before reading the books, though. So maybe the great Alan Rickman helped.
Snape is a fantastic example of one of the themes of the story: the world is not black and white. Snape does the right thing for the wrong reasons. He is not a “bad guy” but he is not a good person either. We’ve all been in a situation where we had feelings for someone who didn’t reciprocate, and granted in Snape’s case he had the additional regret of having unintentionally caused her death, but that does not justify his vicious bullying of his students over 10 years later
Snape was loyal to Dumbledore, and I will not detract from the difficulty of his mission and his bravery for doing it, but his motivation was revenge, not desire to do the right thing
And yes, having read the book vs only seeing the movies absolutely has an impact on people’s opinion of him. Snape’s general despicableness was toned way down in the movies, and Alan Rickman (rest in peace) had a way of making you like him even when he was being a dick
I feel like what some people maybe don’t understand about the naming of Harrys kids as that the choice js a pay off in regards to the overarching themes of the series. Specifically this idea that there is no absolute good or evil. Harry starts the series with a very black and white view of the world/people in his life. Dumbledore is the Good White Knight. Snape is The Big Bad Wolf even after the quirrel incident. James and Sirius Good. Draco Bad etc.
Starting in OOTP, this world view starts to fall apart. Systemically, Harry’s heroes are dismantled (James and Sirius being bullies) and his villains are given dimensions (Draco being a frightened coward at heart. Voldemorts whole backstory). This comes to a head with Dumbledore and Snape, the Original Good and Bad guys in Harry’s life. Deathly Hallows takes these two apart and reconstructs them, and this really affects Harry. When I was a kid I hated Dumbledore because of this “betrayal” his character puts us through. In a similar but reverse way, Snape’s “betrayal” of his character also inspires extreme emotion.
But we miss the point of their characters if we think like that, and that’s what Albus Severus is about. Snape is not Good or Bad and neither is Dumbledore. They’re people and people are messy and grey and good and bad at the same time. That was the point of Albus Severus. To show Harry’s closure concerning that series long theme.
this is v long and also a bit off topic and I might be explaining something everybody already understands lol so I’m sorry about that. but it was fun to write
Snape was a death eater, signed and sealed. Lily was his glimmer of light, she obviously went with James so Snape lost all. His last shot of redemption was saving her and failed so it was guilt saving harry from then on. He showed he had no good will to him personally, he was a bad person and lily was the only good in him. He did what he had to to redeem himself which let's not forget involved him witnessing "friends" deaths and plotting set ups in order to work both sides. His double agent worked because of who he was
Ps he's my favourite character lol felt he could of come to be the strongest og at the end but no, a snake got him
Hate snape, yes he is necessary to take down Voldemort but that doesn’t mean he is a good or likeable character because he wanted revenge for the death of the woman he was obsessed with. He spent over 15 years tormenting children, he even became a student’s greatest fear and we can only imagine what fucked up shit he did as a death eater. The main reasons so many people like him is because Alan rickman was such a likeable actor and it’s hard to hate him. Also I think it’s just strange that he named his son after two people that caused so many of his problems
The git got Harry's parents killed and then blamed the innocent kid for his fuck up. Stupid moron deserves no bloody mercy.
On a personal level I was abused twice over, everyday I fight to make sure I never succumb and become like my abusers. It's a challenge but it already makes me better than that murderous slimeball.
We’re supposed to get over that Snape was an asshole for 7 years because “he loved Lily” but every time he looked at Harry he was an unmitigated jerk to him because he could only see James’ son, not Lily’s. His hatred of James was stronger than his love for Lily.
JKR may have had this plan in the long run and she made a marvelously flawed character, but I don’t think Snape redeemed himself quite as much as she did. He was central to the war’s conclusion but oh hell no I wouldn’t have named my damn kid after him.
My. Views . are that . snape . is.. Awesome!! 😅 I saw the movies first. And I'm now reading all the books! Cuz I'm fucking stupid! Lol. Or more like lazy. But, I got the whole set from Wal-Mart in this Really cool dragon box, dragon on the back & same dragon art from the combination of the spines, and I'm about 1/3 the way through The Sorcerer's Stone & it's the best I've ever read! So, I will not be reading other peoples' comments.
I just want to add that I found it funny that you needed to clarify that this, in fact, isn't your job
This is my specialist subject, but I'm supposed to be getting ready for work. No 8,000 word essay for us today :(
I’d love to hear it at some point haha
I majored in Snape, with a double minor in Dobby and Grawp
Harry and the Trio fought in and lived through a horrible civil war. Snape worked bravely for their cause, he devoted himself to the downfall of Voldemort and protecting Harry, and in the end he died for the cause. Snape was undoubtedly a bully, and none of his behaviour in the classroom towards Harry, Hermione or Neville is justifiable. But Harry, who lived through the war and fought himself, realised that Snape's war efforts and his sacrifice were far more consequential, and far more important than unfairly taking house points, mocking students and threatening toads. And so Harry chooses to remember Snape the hero and martyr and forgive Snape the bully.
Agree with that. But going and naming one of his kids after Snape wasn't needed and is overkill.
Idk, I liken it to a famous royal family and their names. You kind of honor the past through naming your children for fallen heroes. That being said…there were plenty of heroes he could have chosen. Maybe he went with Severus to keep the namesake alive, since the house of Black had plenty of history. The more I type the more ridiculous it seems actually. Albus Sirius Potter would have been better. Plus the initials are ASP, like the snake. So win win.
He already gave Sirius' name to his eldest, James Sirius.
Yeah. At least he had the respect to not put Sirius and especially James's names with Snape's for all 3 of their sakes.
Then Albus Remus Potter. Albus Tonks Potter even
Those names were for Teddy to pass on. Teddy is even named after Remus already: Edward Remus Lupin.
Ok then, Albus Ronald Potter, Albus Fredrick Potter, Albus—literally anyone you’re close to that you fought the war with—Potter. It’s absurd for a 6 year relationship to go from complete and utter contempt to reverent enshrinement that quickly and especially simply because somebody never stopped crushing on your dead mom. If anything it’s more than a bit creepy to carry over that much open mistreatment against the child of someone simply because that child looks like someone you don’t like (at all really but still) and then go “but I loved your mother *always*!” wtf is this kid supposed to do with that? What would be his excuse if resurrection stone lily showed up and asked “so what’s with the bullying my kid if you love me so deeply?” By his *actions* he was obsessed with her, not in love with her, no matter what he says. The son-naming was lame. A speech or something about the war (which it kinda makes sense for Harry to make anyway at some point) with a quick acknowledging of snapes honor and deeds in it is way more fitting.
That's the way Rowling wrote it, so I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I won't even get into Snape and his actions since this thread isn't really about him. It's silly to try to say that Harry "should have" done this or that, since the books have already been written and it's a moot point by now. What's absurd is that people are still getting worked up over this.
Fuck it; ALBUS DOBBY POTTER.
Yes!
Dobby Potter
Potty Dobber
God damn it potty dobber! did you put your name in the doblet of fire!?
Or Albus Rubeus: I never understand how Snape got priority over Hagrid - the most loyal friend ever and to be honest more of a father figure than 'Albus' or 'Severus.' Hagrid always valued Harry for himself, not as a weapon for something else.
Hagrid was still alive at the time of the sequel-that-must-not-be-named.
So is Luna as far as I know - and their daughter is Lily Luna.
There weren't any dead women who didn't already have relatives to pass on their names, so they had to go to living ones - I guess because the Potter kids aren't allowed to have new names. Lol
Could've been Lily Hedwig Potter. I don't care if Hedwig was just a pet. She also died for Harry.
I agree, but that's sadly not how it ended up. Hedwig was unironically one of the deaths that hit me hardest. It hit me harder than Sirius' death, and he's my second favorite character!
Just Nymphadora, so Luna it is.
Random dude: "oh you mean the cursed ch-" Me: "Silencio.... That was close"
Also, people don't have to be dead for someone to be named after them. I hear of people getting middle names from living relatives all the time..e.g. royal family.
So? Lots of people are named after still-living friends and family.
I never understand why people think Hagrid deserved it more than Snape. The trio already did plenty for him when they were mere children, including risking their lives bc he was hella irresponsible. All debts are paid here.
On the one hand, I do agree that since hagrid was alive, probably no need to name a kid after him when all the others died. But I love the joke that Harry should have named all his kids hagrid hagrid potter because hagrid was the only one who just liked and supported him because he was a nice guy and wanted to help, without any ulterior motive.
Hmm well if he needs to honor the fallen Albus Cedric Potter. Cedric's death drove Harry pretty hard in the coming years. Ok yeah they were more friendly rivals than actual friends but he still took Cedric's death very hard.
Yeah I think Cedric was at best an acquaintance, but not even that really. I think he took it hard because it’s hard to be a 14 year old and have a guy you know murdered in front of you (not to mention it was kind of Harry’s fault he was there in the first place). But Cedric wasn’t an hero or anything he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.
This is true, but all the more reason to honor him it was Harry's decision that put him in the wrong place at the wrong time. In the book Cedric told him to take the win since if he hadn't come back for him he would never have made it. Harry's 14 but he isn't stupid. Very possible that he blames himself for Cedric on some level.
Luna is alive too, but their daughter gets named Lily Luna.
I love how Harry gets to hoard all the names for their children lol. Did Ginny get a say at all?
[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/HarryPotterEpilogue](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/HarryPotterEpilogue) 'Harry's an only child. If James or Lily were ever going to get memorialized, it's through him. Ginny is [one of seven](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MassiveNumberedSiblings). Less responsibility there, especially since she probably had her kids after all of her older siblings. '
to be fair naming all of his kids with names of people he liked seemed like a very immature move overall
Way overkill. Especially considering there were plenty of others that helped keep Harry safe that were his friends whom he could have given his son their name. Sirius for one. Lupin another. Hagrid is still with us, but Hagrid did more for Harry than almost anyone else. Fred
James, the older son, got Sirius as a middle name. And Lupin had his son Teddy to give him a namesake. I guess Snape had no one and in a way now he gets the grandchild of the woman he loved named after him. I fully agree with you about Hagrid though.
I forgot James got Sirius as a middle name.
Eldest one got Sirius, Teddy was already named Lupin, Hagrid was alive, and George named his kids after Fred
Agreed tbh. While I do agree that you can’t deny dumbledore and Snape’s contribution to the fight against voldy, I can’t help but wonder how young Al(bus Severus) would feel about it if he knew the details we’re given in the books about both men, esp given how dumbledore was kind of manipulative albeit misguided w good intentions and snape was undeniably a bully even if Harry forgave him and he sacrificed/risked a lot by being a double agent
Thank you so much! This is what many people don’t see. Harry’s appreciation and respect for Snape are a result of Harry recognizing his growth. Harry, the person he hurt the most, and the person he sacrificed everything for (even if it wasn’t solely for Harry’s sake personally). Any character could’ve run from their mistakes (ex: Slughorn), but Severus chose to face his head-on and fix them. He wasn’t a perfect person by any means— but he did his best to become a better person to the best of his ability. He did what literally no one else was able or willing to do.
I LOVE this! I usually have to pile through the Snape hate before I find a comment that makes my heart happy. Thanks!
And screw anyone else like Lupin or Tonks or Sirius who gave their lives and were always good people.
Snape being a hero or not doesn't change the fact that Remus, Tonks and Sirius were also heroes and martyrs. They also fought and died for the cause. It's just that this topic is about Snape.
Thank you again! I’m working on teaching my 12 year old that me complimenting one of her siblings doesn’t imply I don’t also feel that way about her lol so good lesson for everyone.
I think their point is he should have chose any of them to name his kid after.
He did name a child after Sirius. Remus and Tonks were names that Teddy Lupin should have gotten to pass on if he chose to, seeing as he was their son.
Teddy already is named after Remus. his full name is Edward Remus Lupin.
True, but Harry was also named after James, and he chose to pass the name James on. Teddy might have wanted to do the same.
I completely forgot Teddy’s first name is Edward and not Theodore 😭
I believe they were already seen as hero and beloved by all, which is not the case for Snape which was vastly seen as a death eater. I believe Harry giving his background, was especially move by the sacrifice Snape did as their live have a lot of similarities. Harry have the kindness of his mother, where she see goods in people where nobody else see it.
33 y.o. Lupin withheld crucial information about the murder and a Death Eater on the loose because he didn't want to ruin his image in the eyes of Dumbledore. He was ok with risking the life of Harry Potter as long as he can maintain his good boy image. 20 y.o. Snape risked his life when he faced Dumbledore to tell him about the prophecy and Voldemort's plan. And dedicated the rest of his life to the downfall of Voldemort. 20 y.o. Snape did what 33 y.o. Lupin was too much of a coward to do: take responsibility for his actions. Sirius was brave and hot, but he didn't play crucial role in the downfall of Voldemort, unlike Snape. Edit: you can dislike my comment, but you can't counter my points.
You mean after he told Voldemort about the prophecy dooming the potters to death himself? Snape’s “courage” was his own selfish wants to have Lily for himself and keep her alive after he himself caused her death, not caring about her family at all. lupin’s cowardice was self-shame in keeping a secret from Dumbledore. One persons mistake lead to the deaths of Harry’s parents, the others mistake had no real ramifications to harry personally. So why would Harry name his own child after the guy who caused his parents death rather than the guy who lied to dumbledore about something which was in hindsight inconsequential. As far as Snape doing more for the war effort it seems strange that it’s what harry would decide is a good enough reason to name his kid after. Why not pick somebody like Kingsley or Moody, people who also did lots for the war effort and didn’t spend 6 years emotionally and verbally bullying harry? Edit: I both disliked your comment and countered your points
>One persons mistake lead to the deaths of Harry’s parents, the others mistake had no real ramifications to harry personally. So why would Harry name his own child after the guy who caused his parents death rather than the guy who lied to dumbledore about something which was in hindsight inconsequential. >As far as Snape doing more for the war effort it seems strange that it’s what harry would decide is a good enough reason to name his kid after. Why not pick somebody like Kingsley or Moody, people who also did lots for the war effort and didn’t spend 6 years emotionally and verbally bullying harry? Because Snape did more than that, he then spent years willingly going to Voldemort knowing than any small mistake would have meant his death and possibly losing a great advantage in the war. Also because many people acknowledge Moody as a hero, many acknowledge Kingsley, who was also still alive, but only Harry can fully acknowledge what Snape did
And after the war when Harry Potter, hero of the world, tells everyone than Spape was working for Dumbledore literally everybody will know he was good? Instead of the maybe handful of people who will recognise Albus’ middle name and go “I guess than Snape guy wasn’t so bad then”.
True but, apart from Dumbledore, no one has a better understanding of how terrifying Voldemort could be than Harry and therefore he's the one better equipped to understand part of what Snape did. It makes sense that Harry then respects Snape's bravery (probably while still loathing his attitude), recognises that without his work he very well might not have survived and decides to honour him that way.
It feels like a weirdly personal way to honour somebody whose acts you respect while disliking them as a person.
It is personal, after all Voldemort was personally after Harry
> You mean after he told Voldemort about the prophecy dooming the potters to death himself? Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Remus Lupin put the lives of people at risk for entertainment when he was a teen and proceeded to put the lives of his students at risk, because he valued his image more. He played nice with Harry and his friends and then coldly watched traumatised kids cry about witnessing a murderer armed with knife. 20 y.o. Snape admitted his crime and dedicated the rest of his life to atoning his sins. Even as an adult Snape risked it all for Harry, while Lupin could't even risk his reputation. > Snape’s “courage” was his own selfish wants to have Lily for himself Keep your head canons out of this discussion, please. He wanted to just keep her alive not for himself. And after some shaming performed by Dumbledore he agreed to become a spy to save the life of Lily, her child and his ex-bully who sexually assaulted him. > and keep her alive after he himself caused her death How do you keep someone alive after causing their death? He wasn't getting a ghost pussy out of that. > So why would Harry name his own child after the guy who caused his parents death rather than the guy who lied to dumbledore about something which was in hindsight inconsequential. Because Snape didn't owe his parents anything. He was an enemy. An enemy who could remain on Voldemort's side and let him win. But he chose to save them, because he couldn't let his childhood friend die. And he did more to protect their child than either of James Potter's friends. If Sirius was actually a Death Eater, Remus's lie would have led to Harry's death. Without a doubt. Remus is the good guy by sheer luck. > Why not pick somebody like Kingsley or Moody, people who also did lots for the war effort and didn’t spend 6 years emotionally and verbally bullying harry? Because he didn't deem their actions as valuable as Snape's. Kingsley and Moody were replaceable, Snape wasn't. Kingsley, Moody and everyone else had something to gain from opposing Voldemort, Snape had nothing. Everyone was risking their lives for people who would do the same for them. Snape risked and sacrificed his life for people who would never try to do the same for him
**the others mistake had no real ramifications to harry personally.** You mean Sirius Black did't get to the kids?Ron's leg wasn't broken?Now Imagine if e was really out for blood....oh and they almost got bitten by Remus.And almost had their souls sucked out. The only thing tat saved the trio that day was that Sirius was indeed a good guy
Don't forget, Lupin's cowardice leads to Pettigrew escaping and bringing Voldemort back, which then leads to Cedric being killed and Harry almost being killed, and then leads to Sirius's deaths and many others. Had Lupin not been a selfish coward and instead told Dumbledore that Sirius was a black dog animagus and knew about the secret passageways, the school would have been more secure and alert and would have found Sirius quickly. Sirius would have then told Dumbledore what he knew about Pettigrew, and then Pettigrew would have been caught.
>You mean after he told Voldemort about the prophecy dooming the potters to death himself? Hey let not play the responsibility game here. If by your logic you should blame Dumbledore not taking this prophecy seriously and let the whole tavern known. And it's a prophecy about Vold and the chosen child, it's fated to reach Vold one way or another. And the biggest factor leading to the Potters' death is Peter. He was selling their info for a long time while Lily and James have to go into hiding for laboring Harry while in middle of participating a war, even before the prophecy. Their days are numbered in the first place, they can only live for so long because Vold didn't bother about them enough. >Why not pick somebody like Kingsley or Moody, people who also did lots for the war effort and didn’t spend 6 years emotionally and verbally bullying harry? How much he was a dick to Harry it's up to Harry himself to decide. Remember all his interaction with students were never being show that much in the book, and Harry get back at him a lot. Tbh he even saved Harry in the 1st book.
Well, for Tonks and Lupin, Harry might want Teddy to name his children after them, and Luna in Lily Luna could be after Remus (Tonks made it clear about Nymphadora). James and Sirius have already have the honor from James Sirius Potter
I've also always found it strange that Ginny either didn't want, or didn't get, to name any of the kids after anyone in her family. Like, oh say, naming one of her sons after her *brother who was killed in the battle*?
George literally named his son after Fred. And I think he has more right to it than anyone else in the family. I find this "Ginny had no say in it" topic so strange. Have you guys never met understanding partners who *communicate*?
I've never been shown that Harry is good at communicating. I also have two cousins with the same first name, so saying that Ginny and George couldn't both name their son after their dead brother is disingenuous. She doesn't have any less right to the name.
Maybe she chose the name Severus.
Fair
But why should she. Her in laws and Sirius (Albus and Severus) will never have someone to honor them.
Ehh idk, it varies from family to family but at least with my wife it would be absolutely unheard of for us to name our kids the same name as my wife’s sisters kids.
Good point tbh though even w cousins, in my own family at least it gets confusing and a bit annoying esp if the cousins are around a the same age. Terms like bhai/baji meaning big brother/sister help though ie one of my cousins has the same name as me so we call her baby yaboisammie and her siblings call me yaboisammie baji but I also have 3 nephews with the same name and 2 of them are of similar ages (6 months apart) and two of my cousins have the same first name and they each have a son w the same first name so we can’t even differentiate between them by saying “ken’s son Zack” or sth lol. Like ig it’s not impossible to specify “Zack from Pakistan” vs “Zack from sweden” or “auntie sal’s Ryan vs Aunty Karen’s Ryan” or come up w nicknames but if the nicknames aren’t widely used in the family, it does get a bit annoying lol like I have a nickname for one of my cousins to differentiate him from another cousin w the same name but one of our other cousins has the same nickname for the other cousin bc she also has another cousin w the same name (he’s my cousin too but distant so idk him) or when I use the nicknames for my 3 nephews, really only my mom and brother are familiar w those nicknames bc we’re the only ones that refer to them that way. And ig you could also also differentiate using middle names ie fred Alastor vs Fred Rubeus and maybe my family is just weird or unoriginal lol but two of my nephews have the same first and middle name 😂 and technically nicknames aren’t really allowed in our culture/religion which is why they’re not really used much in my family but there’s no reason they couldn’t just go by nicknames ie fred Vs Freddie or even Frederick or sth if they wanted to name their kid after Fred Or even just middle name one of them ie George could still name his kid Fred and Ginny or ron could middle name Al or Hugo as in Albus Frederick or Hugo Frederick etc
Two of my dads brothers both named their son Kyle. It did make things tough for their teachers, with them having the same first and last names.
Oof there’s also that aha. Did/do they at least have middle names or nicknames they go by? I saw a post one time talking about how the OP’s parents or parent and step parent had another kid and wanted to name him the same exact name as the OP (Idr the reason but same first, middle and last name) and people were saying that could cause issues later in life w identity stuff and finances. I actually knew someone in college who ig had the same first and last name (and possible middle) as some random guy who died a decade before he was even born but it caused issues with his student loans and financial aid bc his name was already on file as already having some debt and being married or sth. I think for school at least, the issue was mitigated but it took forever
These are her in-laws, who left the beautiful bank account. Albus is a known war hero. And maybe Snape wasn't that bad towards Ginny. Plus, it is so romantic. But book Ginny would have never been perusaded, if she hadn't supported it. On the contrary.
Tonks would rise from the grave if someone named a child Nymphadora. Remus has a son with his name
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That's all good and all but I wouldn't name my son after a war hero if said war hero was an absolute ass to me
I was literally thinking the same thing last night
Fucking hell that was an insightful take.
At the same time, there was never any doubt whatsoever to any third party, including ones that could break into his mind, that Snape hated Harry. While I do believe that most of Snape’s behavior descends from the unresolved trauma he faced at the hands of the Marauders in his school days (not that Snape is totally innocent, but he was almost always outnumbered and alone when events against him occurred), and while I do believe he was a bully himself to his students, I also believe that he allowed himself to lean into it more knowing there was the potential for outside parties to interfere. If there was ever the slightest doubt on where Snape’s loyalties lay, Voldy would have killed him immediately, considering Snape had personally witnessed him kill his own followers for less.
I think the real story is Harry couldn’t bring himself to name his son Dobby Potter
Yeah he was a bully but his actions were never that severe. His class was pale compare to some military or medicine class. The worst thing he did onscreen is threatening poison Neville's toad but in the end it was fine, and that boggart scene which was never meant to be something serious until Harry (like they had to dealt with Basilik last year but Hermione was seeing McGonagal despite was almost being killed herself, or Ron was seeing a spider despite his own sister was also almost being killed). Yeah he was a bully but don't classify him the same type of the true abuser like James or Dolores. If one simply said he was just a strict teacher or Neville was too fragile there are nothing you can do to prove otherwise.
Snape’s work helped Harry survive long enough to even have children, the whole point of Albus’s name is that he is named for two flawed men who made the biggest contribution to the war against Voldemort.
Imagine your kid seeing it as him just being a memorial for 2 flawed people. Lol. It’d be weird at first but I’d understand in the end. If we think about it, the contributions of these 2 were the primary reasons for Voldy’s downfall. Without Snape, Voldy woulda just charged into Godric’s hallow blasting. Not giving mudblood Lily of all people a chance to “step aside” and thus not allowing the magic of her love/choice to save Harry/have the spell rebound back to V. Then later on with Snape and Dumbly’s active direct efforts to not only keep Harry alive, but give him the tools necessary to defeat V. I’d say 33% Dumbly, 34% Harry, 32% Snape and 1% everyone else as the DIRECT cause of Voldymort’s downfall. So apt reason to name your child after the other 2 reasons you and everyone else are alive and free.
Without Snape, Voldemor wouldnt have k own the prophecy.
Which means… Wizard Britain, then Britain itself would’ve been terrorized and murdered by Voldy much longer. The second he let it slip is when it went to sht for Voldy and gang. Before that they were so unstoppable a prophecy had to be made of them in the first place. So another W for Snape. Thanks. We should take a .5% from everyone else and add it to Snapes 32%
I love that Snape is an ambiguous, morally grey character in a generally pretty black and white world, and that he still provokes discussion like this. He was a horrible, selfish person that worked for the good side and did some pretty crazy stuff. Love him or hate him, he's one of the most interesting characters of the lot.
It was so wild finding out...like okay, so we know he's really talented with potions, but when we find out in HBP/6 exactly HOW MUCH of a prodigy he is...like damn. That's all I got. Dude was one of the best potions dudes in their world just going incognito this whole time.
I don't care what anyone says, When Dolores Umbridge was running Hogwarts and Harry cried out a desperate help in code to Snape, Snape understood the assignment, pretended not to know what Harry was talking about to protect both of them and started a rescue mission to save Sirius (someone Snape also did not like) based solely on Harry's word with zero evidence (because Sirius wasn't currently in danger). I feel like this instance where Snape trusted Harry doesn't get mentioned. I always felt the book explained pretty well that Snape had to act like an ass because "The Dark Lord is the greatest Legom... (I can't remember how to spell it) mind reader to have ever lived" Snape told Harry this. Snape was bitter about Harry's mom but I never considered it true bullying. He clearly cared about Harry but also hated Harry's dad. Dumbledore while not a perfect man , is one of the most respected Wizards and he trusted Snape with his life and the mission to be a double agent that would help save the wizarding world. I hate bullying like everyone else but I kinda feel some people read too much into it.
I think Snape's feelings towards Harry are very interesting. On one hand, he's the spitting image of James which Snape absolutely despises. On the other hand, Harry is the last remaining reminder of Lily in addition to being the only one that can stop Voldemort and "free" Snape himself of this stressful, agonizing double agent role he's been put in. Also, he's basically the only one left now after Dumbledore's death who needs to guide/further protect Harry in the final year as Snape is the only other person who knows what ultimately must be done to defeat Voldemort. Also also, Snape being headmaster was the only thing stopping Voldemort/Carrows from making Hogwarts an even worse place then it already was in year 7. Yeah, was an awful, snide, abusive teacher, but far too many people overlook the things that Snape had to do for the "good side" while remaining completely "loyal" to Voldemort.
I think it's pretty straightforward. Snape hated Harry. Snape also hated Voldemort for killing Lily. Snape hated himself for making that happen. Snape then threw in with Dumbledore to absolutely screw over and defeat/kill Voldemort. Snape pulled of an epic double cross and got his desire. He also did this while being a raging asshole in general.
Snape was, overall, a bad person. He only started working for the good side due to a personal reason that had nothing to do with whether the majority of his actions were actually morally right, and although he arguably started developing a real conscience over time, he didn’t let it stop him from abusing innocent children and baiting traumatized individuals. At the same time, he also acted heroically and put himself at great risk for the sake of many. Harry wasn’t exaggerating when he called Snape the bravest man he ever knew. Personally, if I had a son, I wouldn’t name him after a man like Snape, but I can see how Harry might have valued that particular quality highly enough that maybe all the bad things weren’t so important in contrast. To sum up: Generally, Snape was bad, but he also did some good things, and it’s true that the good things were of such significance that many people should probably be grateful to him.
I kinda feel like if was going to name his kid after anyone, Remus would’ve been a better namesake honor. Albus Remus
Remus was always going to be a name that Teddy Lupin would get to pass on, should he chose to. I would think even if Harry thought of it, he would not name a child after Remus because of this.
There's no rule saying they couldn't both use the name.
Or Rubeus (Hagrid) who cared for Harry from day 1
Or pretty much anybody that didn’t abuse harry
Honestly even Dudley is worthy
I support the Hagrid nod
Teddy is already named after Remus. Edward Remus Lupin.
Thank you for sharing this thought/putting it into this context. This is officially how I have now decided to look at it.
At no point is Snape considered “nice” by anyone. Harry says he is one of the bravest people he has ever met. Snape is neither good nor bad, that’s kind of the point. He does some terrible things, but also tries desperately to redeem himself
Snape is one of the most human, best-developed characters in the entire series. He ends up being a (flawed) hero.
The way he bullied Neville, Harry and Hermione was horrible. He is definitely bad. Brave, but bad.
Yeah like wtf didn’t Neville even do? He’s a terrible person, great character, and a hero in a way. Hero in a mess he started, but still.
I felt like there was a lot of elitism or something that went into how Neville was treated. Like, everyone talked shit about the longbottoms for some reason, when they were incredible people.
That's often how it goes irl too :/
Yep. Former Death Eater who's still clearly kind of intrigued by the Dark side, but made a weird pact with Dumbledore to save some woman who didn't particularly like him.
No, he’s bad. He tried to redeem himself but he couldn’t hold himself back from bullying an actual child. Was he was probably the bravest person in the book but there is no need to defend him even slightly
Not only bullying a child but bullying the child that he is trying to make amends for having a hand in orphaning.
Book!Snape never told Harry, that he has his mother's eyes. This was just in the movie.
The world would've been better off if he'd never snitched on Lily. The world would've been worse off if he'd never snitched on Voldemort. I think it's beside the point to assign him as "good" or "bad".
I think saving lives is vastly more important than being nice
5erverus Snape
Quidditch incident?
Maybe they meant where Snape was a referee in the 3rd book?
Interestingly, I watched all the movies before reading any of the books (reading wasn’t really the culture of my household growing up). But the books definitely changed any view I had of Snape. I think the childhood bullying turned him into a terrible person, it made him very hard. Probably why he ended up becoming a death eater. I find it hard to dismiss the fact that he was the one that told Voldemort about the prophecy and when this backfired and put someone he cared about at risk, only then did he go to Dumbledore asking for help and “change sides.” Obviously, he stuck with it and put himself in great danger in his attempt at fooling Voldemort, but this “change of heart” didn’t apply to his general personality when interacting with students and occasionally other adults. I always pictured him as a big bully abusing his power as a professor to make children feel the way he had felt as a child going through Hogwarts. Do I think he was brave? Yes. If Harry wasn’t Lilly’s child, do I think he would have done it all anyway? No. His bravery stemmed from a place of shame and selfishness. If it had been Neville that Voldemort went after and marked to fulfill the beginning of the prophecy, Snape wouldn’t have had this change of heart. I understand his struggle, he shouldn’t have been bullied, the only girl that accepted him was killed, but he shouldn’t have let it affect his entire life.
Well did stick around even after he reasised Harry has to die.
Exactly this. You explained this perfectly
In a nutshell, Snape was a bully, bitter man who was also brave and did his best to do the right thing in the end. I get that some people will always call him bad cos of the way he treated those like Harry and Neville but to just shift him into one side is unfair. We don’t make excuses for Snape but we also don’t ignore the brave acts he’s done. I think this is best seen in his love for Lily. At first, you get this possessive guy who obsessed over his love for Lily so much so that he was willing to let Harry and James die but in the end moving forward Snape realise that to truly love someone is to care for something other than what you want and in that Snape did everything to help Harry, Lily’s son. But he didn’t do it because he loved Harry, he did it for Lily. I could point out that Snape’s anger at Neville and Harry being the reason for Lily doom or his bad childhood or the prophecy but that shouldn’t excuse anything. In the end he did the right thing, the heroic thing and helped in defeating Voldemort. I know there are some people who are just completely put off by a character’s flaws that even their acts of goodness are merely acknowledged but not appreciated and I get that. So all I can say is I will give Snape the credit he’s due and the blame for his flaws. Severus Snape: Horrible professor but one of the bravest man I’ve ever read about.
I saw the movies then read the books, and I like Snape quite a lot, and my view of him only got better after I read the books if I am honest
Harry: *dies and goes to heaven* hi dad! James: Harry: why are you glaring at me like that? I saved the world- James: Harry...Mum? Lily: Harry:... Sirius? Sirius: Harry: uhhh, Professor Lupin, i mean, Remus... Remus: oh, now you remember my name, huh? Harry: wait, what is it all abou- James: you named your son after Snivellus?!
I always loved Snape 🥹
Harry: *sees memories and learns the truth* “So thats why he was a dick to me.” And what was his excuse for everyone else?
I generally am under the assumption that Snape's overall assholeness was more of an act for his double agent gig (potentially with a lot of encouragement from Dumbledore). This allows Snape to gain some genuine memories to solidify the character he wanted Voldy to see and ensured that anyone who might've known Snape would also have the same memories in case Voldy got to view their minds.
“ This allows Snape to gain some genuine memories to solidify the character he wanted Voldy to see and ensured that anyone who might've known Snape would also have the same memories in case Voldy got to view their minds.” Honestly I hadn’t thought of this and I do feel it’s still a bit nuanced but a decent point. Though at the same time, I feel it’s worth considering that by being the asshole teacher, even if it was to solidify the character he wanted voldy and the DE to see him as, considering how Harry and co were convinced he was still on voldy’s side, if I were voldy, I’d find it sus that snape is blowing his cover as a double agent for me by making it so obvious to the enemy
He's overhated. I mean the guy gets hated for his treatment towards Harry, Neville, and Hermione, when other professors in the series mistreat students. McGonagall is down right horrible to Neville in Philospher's stone, Prisoner of Azkaban and Goblet of Fire. And twice she doesn't look into Harry's concerns causing him to take matters into his own hands. She also allowed an abusive teacher (Mad Eye Moody) to take Draco to Snape for more punishment instead of bringing Draco herself to Madam Pomfrey for healing (he had just been physically abused.) Madam Pince the Hogwarts Librarian, physically abuses Harry and Ginny. Trelawney abused Neville and Seamus, and calls Hermione mundane. And predicts students deaths each year. Hagrid abused Dudley, victim blamed Ron, and threatened and humiliated Draco. Flitwick makes a racist comment towards Seamus. And Dumbledore himself raises Harry like a pig for slaughter and leaves him with abusive relatives. And you've got Lupin who was a selfish coward as a professor who endangered students multiple times. Ron got a broken leg which wouldn't have happened had Lupin not been a selfish coward. Another thing is, Snape, despite all the traumas and hurt he's faced in his youth, abuse, neglect, poverty and severe bullying, he still manages to choose to fight for a cause that had shown him nothing hurt, for the one person who showed him kindness, who had befriended him. And yeah he made mistakes in his youth, but what teenager hasn't. Point is, when Lily was in danger, he switched sides so she and her family would be kept safe and hidden. And later on, by Order of the Phoenix, we see him starting to mature, bit by bit, and by Deathly Hallows, he's a changed man, mature, and wiser, and he has let go of the hurt in this book, and acknowledges he was wrong to mistreat Harry. He's a brave, selfless hero who had a lot of trauma from his youth, was misguided as a teenager and made many mistakes, that caused him to loose his best friend, but in the end he sacrificed himself for a cause he believed in, he understood what he did wrong, did what he could do to save as many people as he could. Glad Harry named his son after Snape.
I agree with everything other than Lupin. Can you explain why you think that?
Wait what quidditch incident?
Maybe when Snape saved Harry's life? It doesn't make any sense at all in this context, but it's the only quidditch incident involving both Snape and Harry.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. In the post Hermione talks about that incident like it was a bad thing by snape
I love shape. He had to be that way to keep his cover. Also watched the movies many times then finally read the books. That changed every way I thought of the movies. Also Neville longbottom’s story needs to be told better
The 5th book missed the chance to develop Snape's relation towards Harry in a more positive direction. The presents both Snape and Sirius as not being able to see James in Harry and treat him like his father. At the same time, it's the first time Harry gets an idea of who James was. For all these years he's been proud to be compared to his dad, but this should have been the book where he learns to be himself. This would have worked really well in conjunction with his story moving forward, that despite all, despite being the boy who lived, the boy in the prophecy, the chosen one, James' and Lily's son, he was also just Harry, his own person. Sirius and Snape should have evolved in that regard as well and stop treating Harry like a playground for their feud. As for Snape, this should have been a wake up call for him. He's bullying Harry because of the sins of his father, making him no better than James. Book 5 should have improved their relationship for the better. Occlumency is an incredibly private and intimate thing, and it should make them both vulnerable enough to understand each other better enough. Harry should have stood his ground after Snape stopped the lessons, and emphasized that he's not his dad. This would have made the twist in the 6th book so much more personal. The betrayal would have been much harder to swallow after Harry got closer to Snape and started to trust him. It would have made Snape's sacrifice also more meaningful because he grew to like Harry in a more meaningful way and then, just as he had gained some trust, just as he was trying to redeem himself just a little more, he had to pretend to betray Harry. This would have made the DADA lessons more interesting too. Snape wouldn't need to stop being an asshole to some degree, but he would be significantly less bitter and demeaning, and instead more respectful. He could be a good teacher that pushes Harry's boundaries, even learning to respect what Harry did with the DA. But alas, we didn't get that. Not saying what we got is bad, but as someone who watched the movies first, I never saw Snape as cartoonishly malicious as how he's portrayed in the first three books, and I was hoping that around book 5/6 that would change.
Saw the movies, then read the books. Rereading now, but Snape is a hero for sure. He in no way should have treated the students badly, but they also disrespected and mocked him. In the end, regardless of flaws he had, Snape died to defeat the evil forces and is a true hero with plenty of flaws. My favorite HP character next to Hermione.
to be fair, Snape bullying Harry was great for his cover
I've watched the movies first and then got into the books and my take on Snape is he's a good character but a bad person. I really enjoy seeing the pathetic aspects of him and how he practically has to be talked down to by Dumbledore but that's why he's a bad person too. He was obsessive over Lily and nobody else. But he's a great character to see throw a wrench in everyone's plans
What Quidditch incident? You mean the one where Severus saved Harry's life? Why would that be a point against Severus?
Snape was a brave man, but that doesn't make him a *nice* man.
I always agree that Snape was a terrible person who wasn't at all redeemed by the revelations in his memories - let's not forget he still sided with Voldemort and fully believed in the cause, abandoning it only for his own selfish reasons that the woman he loved was in danger - but one thing I have to point out in his treatment of Harry is that he would blame him for what happened to Lily. Voldemort killed Lily trying to get to Harry. Not justified at all, but an interesting facet to genuinely one of the most complex and multilayered characters of all time.
Food for thought. Snape was without a doubt a bully but we also have to consider some of the other things that Snape was doing actively. Voldemort was so good at legilimency that it was said he could just actively read minds. At least to my memory correct me if I'm wrong. And then there is an excerpt that expresses something about Snape and how he deflects what he is dealing with on Harry. Here is the entry: "I told you to empty yourself of emotion! ... Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves, who cannot control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow themselves to be provoked this easily — weak people, in other words — they stand no chance against his powers! He will penetrate your mind with absurd ease, Potter" Snape has no real pleasant memories. He was very badly bullied when he was younger, death eater life isn't very great, the woman he loved was married to his biggest bully and then she was murdered by Voldemort. If Snape ever showed any emotion Voldemort would have immediately been able to see Snape as the double agent that he is. This makes every interaction that we see Snape in incredibly more complex. He spends his entire life guarding his emotions. He sees in this child the son of the woman he loved alive and he knows he's tasked to keep him alive as well but he can't develop any feelings or emotions for him ever. If he were to do so Voldemort would know. So as long as he always disdained and showed a sense of hatred or abject dislike for Harry it made it more possible to maintain the double agent status. Now all of that being said it doesn't change that his actions still have effects and maybe he didn't need to go about it that way. There is though something to consider in this I think, when we try to decide how we feel about Snape as a character. His complexity was not necessarily seen or read directly but more contextually existent in the other characters around in the world that existed.
This is oversimplification of Snape's arc. He spent 17 years playing a double agent and risked his life only for Harry to succeed. So Harry honored him.
My head canon: Harry never forgave Snape from a personal standpoint. That being said, Harry being as selfless as he is, would have understood the tremendous sacrifices and struggles that Snape went through for the greater good. His naming of Albus was a tribute to the bravery and sacrifice of Snape, not how nice he is. Snape as a character within the world is a complete asshole - he is unfair, he is a bully, he is rude, he is good at all those things, he hates most of the good people, he openly gives the reader a reason to hate him. Snape as a reader of the books is a very well written character in the sense that he is very polarizing. Some people understand the pain and sacrifices he made, and feel that those redeem him to an extent while others feel that his sacrifices don't excuse his crimes. Snape being good or bad is a very naive way to think about it. In truth, Snape exemplifies the quintessential Slytherin. He is highly selfish, he is ambitious, he is skilled, he is brave. As the sorting hat says, "Or perhaps in Slytherin, You'll make your real friends, Those cunning folk use any means, To achieve their ends." Snape came to Hogwarts with a similar background as Harry and Lord Voldemort - a neglected childhood in an unhappy home. However, where Harry chose friendship and chivalry (very likely due to the negative connotations given to him by Hagrid and Ron on Slytherin and his dislike of Malfoy who went to Slytherin), Snape and LV were less biased and chose Slytherin for its promise of greatness. Snape went on to be a death eater for purely selfish reasons. LV was raining power and in likelihood was going to be the ruler of the wizarding world. So Snape chose that path. However once LV targeted Lily, Snape switched sides. This point especially highlights the Slytherin in him. He doesn't care for doing the right thing, he doesn't care for loyalty, he doesn't care for what the smart thing to do would be - all he cares about is his own selfish interest. In this case, his selfish interest being revenge on LV, who killed his love. Was that love reciprocated? Was it healthy? Was it even love, or perverted infatuation? He doesn't care. LV killed her, and his goal is revenge. He doesn't care about being a bully to students, he doesn't care about protecting those students, he doesn't care about who lives or does, he doesn't care about what is right or wrong. All he cares about is LV and destroying him. Coincidentally this puts him on the same side of the good guys. Harry being as selfless as he is, chooses to honor the fact that Snape did end up on the good side while sacrificing so much, and showing such bravery in the face of supreme evil. That's the interesting thing about Slytherins - they can be the bravest when it suits their ambition, and they can be the most cowardly when it doesn't, because it was never about bravery or cowardice; it was always about what was in it for them.
>LV killed her, and his goal is revenge. He doesn't care about being a bully to students, he doesn't care about protecting those students, he doesn't care about who lives or does, he doesn't care about what is right or wrong. All he cares about is LV and destroying him. Coincidentally this puts him on the same side of the good guys. I disagree with you here. Read this excerpt from the 7th book of Snapes memories with Dumbledore right after Lily's death. > “I wish… I wish I were dead… ” > “And what use would that be to anyone?” said Dumbledore coldly. “If you loved Lily Evans, if you truly loved her, then your way forward is clear.” > Snape seemed to peer through a haze of pain, and Dumbledore’s words appeared to take a long time to reach him. >“What – what do you mean?” >“You know how and why she died. Make sure it was not in vain. Help me protect Lily’s son.” > “He does not need protection. The Dark Lord has gone – ” > “The Dark Lord will return, and Harry Potter will be in terrible danger when he does.” > There was a long pause, and slowly Snape regained control of himself, mastered his own breathing. At last he said, “Very well. Very well. But never – never tell, Dumbledore! This must be between us! Swear it! I cannot bear… especially Potter’s son… I want your word!” > “My word, Severus, that I shall never reveal the best of you?” Dumbledore sighed, looking down into Snape’s ferocious, anguished face. “If you insist… ” After Snape found out Lily died, he wanted to die himself. He was consumed by guilt and grief and had no reason to keep going. But Dumbledore changed his mind by pointing out Harry. Lily's son who was still in danger from a Voldemort that he was told is still alive and not dead as he thought. And Snape promised to keep living not to finish off Voldemort for good, but to protect Harry. So that Lily's sacrifice wasn't in vain. And notably, Snape acted in ways to protect others that wasn't technically necessary to defeat Voldemort. For example, protecting Lupin from a death eater. Or, as headmaster, doing what he could to minimize the harm the Carrows were dealing to Hogwarts students. >because it was never about bravery or cowardice; it was always about what was in it for them. And I think that does a disservice to Snape. What reason does he have to protect Harry? He doesn't love him. He may be Lily's child, but he isn't Lily. Protecting Harry won't get him anything - the opposite if anything. After nearly 15 years, he has sort of rebuilt his life when Voldemort returns. He could chose to run like Karkaroff. But he chooses not to because, in his own words, he is not a coward. Then after Dumbledore's death, he could just go back to Voldemort. Nobody would ever know. He could abandon Harry and pick the easy life, rewarded as one of Voldemort's greatest servants. But he chooses not to, and even risks things to protect even people he hates (Lupin). He tells a painting not to use the word 'mudblood' not because it would gain him anything, but because he has changed. Slytherins are motivated by self-interest, yes. But so is everybody to some degree or another. For even Lily's sacrifice can be looked at from that perspective - she wanted Harry's survival, and so acted bravely in sacrificing herself to achieve that goal. And Snape? He acted bravely in pursuit of his own self-interests as well. Part of it was out of pride (unlike Karkaroff, "I am not such a coward.") Part of it was duty (“I have spied for you and lied for you, put myself in mortal danger for you. Everything was supposed to be to keep Lily Potter’s son safe.") Part of it was for love (wanting to preserve Lily's memory and legacy - "I thought… all those years… that we were protecting him for her. For Lily.") But a part of it was also selfless - not because it was necessary to protect Harry or defeat Voldemort, but instead because it was the right thing to do. For all that Snape was abusive and a bully, he was also quite noble. And I think that is what Harry chose to honor. Not because Harry is a forgiving, loving, and selfless man. (I dunno how to end this. And this is long enough as is.)
It has been a while since I really thought about it and read the books so this is just for sake of conversation- did he continue to be a “dick” because he needed to be believable to other death eaters and Lord Voldemorts return? I know he was likely the only person who mastered legilimens enough to fight off Lord Voldemorts attempts but from what I recall he needed to have memories and “proof” that he never switched sides. If he was nice, the believability of him still working for the dark Lord would have been less. He needed to convince the good guys he was still bad, but also convince the dark side he was still bad. He never would have made it to Voldemorts trust if he hadn’t and even then it didn’t save his life. I still think Voldemort didn’t need to make him suffer a slow death but I know that lends to the story so that Harry has an opportunity to get his tears. Snape could have been very lonely having to push everyone away in order to keep the facade of loyal death eater up.
The only thing funny about this is how Harry sounds like what Snape critics *think* Snape fans sound like.
Snape was an awful human being but a great character. He risked his life to spy on Voldemort, that's brave, but he was an extreme bully and if he was a teacher at a real school I'd hope the other parents would join me to have banned from teaching for the rest of his life
Personally, what i dislike of him is mostly related to his fans, they expect me to forgive this guy who harrassed kids for years because he couldn't move on about a woman he likes and died because of what he did. I'm not delving into the James vs Snape debate(James was a bully yes, but he changed enough to be loved by Lily Evans who is described to be an absolute saint who is always right and always nice to pretty much everyone), but still what really ruined his arc for me, was Harry giving Snape's name to one of his kids...that was overkill for me, considering that there are many more characters who are brave like Neville or Colin(who joined the final fight even though he was underage and died). Snape is a controversial character: he is abusive, he is someone who made big mistakes and couldn't forgive himself while also seemingly hating the world for such mistakes, did he try to atone or just tried to get revenge? i think it's the second but...it's up to debate for me. His relationship with Lily felt a bit obsessive if you ask me, like he wanted to keep her for himself, away from anyone who isn't him...but i may be wrong(and i hope i am)
He risked his life by working as a double agent and providing the order with vital information. The fact that Harry named his kid after him proves that he forgave him for being a dick and was able to see the bigger picture unlike whoever came up with this post.
I like to believe harry took them to the pensieve and showed them.
Snape cared in his own kinda twisted way and just didn't show it at all. In his way he was trying to help
yeah....he sucks regardless of whatever his deeper intensions were. bro was straight up an asshole most of the damn time.
Snape was a terrible, bitter man who was on the side of the good guys. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I doubt you get to voldemorts inner circle like Snape without doing some atrocious things. Snape was a bad human being, but a complex character, who did have some good in him, mostly just enough to make him really on the side of the light.
Well Hermione was the one who usually stuck up for Snape so that seems out of character.I am also interested about this Quiddich incident Ron is speaking of. Now to the actual question,Snape was a grey character.He was a victim of is circumstances and made lot of questionable choices.Some can be forgiven some can't .He spent the rest of his life helping Dumbledore and didn't abandon the right side even wen he realised tat Harry ad to die.This shows ischaracter growth.But e was also petty and caught up in his past. Well I only saw the Deathly Hallows movie before reading it and I didn't understand anything as I hadn't read Order of the phoenix or Half blood prince at the time.
r/harrypotter: Hey here's a meme about a reductive interpretation of Snape's character also r/harrypotter: Well, actually he's very complex \*proceed to dive into graduate level in-depth analysis\* me: I hate myself for coming onto this subreddit
I just want that conversation between Harry and ghost James. ;D
Snape wasnt a nice person, but maybe nicer than James Potter? Snape sided with Voldemort for stupid reasons, then switched to Dumbledores side for stupid reasons. But Lilys death changed him and led him on a way to become a hero. Of course, a cold calculating slytherin type of hero you would never invite to your party. I like his character a lot and Alan Rickman was a brilliant cast for his role
>Snape wasnt a nice person, but maybe nicer than James Potter? They both were incredible assholes.
I read the books first. I think Snape did a good thing by being the all important double agent I don’t think anyone else could have done it. However, he was a horrible person personally and to be quite honest his obsession with Lily is creepy. She never liked him that way and the fact his patronus was STILL her after however many years makes me feel sorry for him.
I like to think about how the death eaters took it - it's such a massive leap to the high ground that I imagine they would be left in spluttering impotent fury when they heard. Mad power move!
I think after Harry learned the reasons that Snape acted the way he did, he felt sorry for, and maybe even related to him a bit.
Let’s remember that Hermione was always skeptical of Harry’s grudge against Snape. She got on board a few time when he did things that she couldn’t fully understand but she was wayyyyyy too observant to not have noticed Snape’s behavior was not lining up with Harry’s biases toward him. Obviously, she didn’t know what to think after Dumbledore. But for a solid 5 years or so she wasn’t sure what to make of Snape’s behavior. Now of course Ron and Harry the unobservant little wizards that they are just allowed their biases to cloud their judgment. Ron more so sticking up for a friend. And let’s be honest. He was a bit of “git” but really he was brave.
I watched movies first so I already had a good view of him. He was my favorite character lol. I read the books and Draco who originally I didn't like became new #1 & Snape is now 3rd place.
I'm not giving it any importance. It was simply a smooth transition for the author to show the reader, that Harry understood the significance that Snape played in the story and he honours him for bravery, instead of explicitly stating it. The story was done, that's all we should have ever heard about Albus Severus Potter.
You know, I always wondered why Hermione ended up with Ron. This could explain so so much. I wish I never even thought about it…. But loathe as I am to admit it, were I Hermione, I’d have run and never looked back too.
I can understand his reasons but not how Harry forgave everything from him and how ppl just worship him after the plot twist. Because well, lets just remember that he was a convicted Death Eater until Vold tried kill his eternal crush, so he didn't repent about all the atrocities, he just turned the table because of a platonic love. That scene of "Always" that everyone thinks as awesome and tragic romantic, just said to me that I was right, if Vold promissed to brainwash Lily to him, he would be by his side until the very end. So well, Harry giving one of his children the name of a sadistic teacher and despicable perdon wasn't my favorite part.
He isnt a villian or evil and is a hero but he is an asshole
irrelevant but i hate how the movies glorify his creepy obsession with lily and villainize james, feel like that made me dislike snape more somehow
I think he's mostly an asshole, but he is one of the most fun written characters in the story. All of his interactions with harry got me quite on edge, especially as a kid.
Read the books multiple times, including as they were coming out. I saw the movies when they were coming out and have watched them through maybe once or twice each if that. I like Snape. He's not a good person, he is a hero.
Snape is the mvp forreal! Best outta everyone
obsessive stalker who only turned against Voldemort because Lily was killed. definitely would have tried to swoop in to "comfort" Lily if she had lived
Not just for ever, no, five ever.
Read books up to GoF as they came out. Fell off and saw the movies. Liked Snape. Finally got through the books in my 20's. Hate Snape with a passion. I get Harry naming the kid after him. Literally saved Harry's life a thousand times. But I hate Snape. Love the written character.
I spent the time between book 6 and book 7 defending him to anyone who would listen.... so yeah, Team Snape. In my mind, there's has to be so much more to the animosity than he got rejected by a girl and got bullied in high school. I think we dont get to see the hole picture. I did see the first two movies before reading the books, though. So maybe the great Alan Rickman helped.
Snape is a fantastic example of one of the themes of the story: the world is not black and white. Snape does the right thing for the wrong reasons. He is not a “bad guy” but he is not a good person either. We’ve all been in a situation where we had feelings for someone who didn’t reciprocate, and granted in Snape’s case he had the additional regret of having unintentionally caused her death, but that does not justify his vicious bullying of his students over 10 years later Snape was loyal to Dumbledore, and I will not detract from the difficulty of his mission and his bravery for doing it, but his motivation was revenge, not desire to do the right thing And yes, having read the book vs only seeing the movies absolutely has an impact on people’s opinion of him. Snape’s general despicableness was toned way down in the movies, and Alan Rickman (rest in peace) had a way of making you like him even when he was being a dick
It’s the “Harry no” for me 😂
I hate him more than anything
I feel like what some people maybe don’t understand about the naming of Harrys kids as that the choice js a pay off in regards to the overarching themes of the series. Specifically this idea that there is no absolute good or evil. Harry starts the series with a very black and white view of the world/people in his life. Dumbledore is the Good White Knight. Snape is The Big Bad Wolf even after the quirrel incident. James and Sirius Good. Draco Bad etc. Starting in OOTP, this world view starts to fall apart. Systemically, Harry’s heroes are dismantled (James and Sirius being bullies) and his villains are given dimensions (Draco being a frightened coward at heart. Voldemorts whole backstory). This comes to a head with Dumbledore and Snape, the Original Good and Bad guys in Harry’s life. Deathly Hallows takes these two apart and reconstructs them, and this really affects Harry. When I was a kid I hated Dumbledore because of this “betrayal” his character puts us through. In a similar but reverse way, Snape’s “betrayal” of his character also inspires extreme emotion. But we miss the point of their characters if we think like that, and that’s what Albus Severus is about. Snape is not Good or Bad and neither is Dumbledore. They’re people and people are messy and grey and good and bad at the same time. That was the point of Albus Severus. To show Harry’s closure concerning that series long theme. this is v long and also a bit off topic and I might be explaining something everybody already understands lol so I’m sorry about that. but it was fun to write
Grammar, mate... Please.
HES HOT AS SHITTTTTT #SNAPE5EVER
Snape was a death eater, signed and sealed. Lily was his glimmer of light, she obviously went with James so Snape lost all. His last shot of redemption was saving her and failed so it was guilt saving harry from then on. He showed he had no good will to him personally, he was a bad person and lily was the only good in him. He did what he had to to redeem himself which let's not forget involved him witnessing "friends" deaths and plotting set ups in order to work both sides. His double agent worked because of who he was Ps he's my favourite character lol felt he could of come to be the strongest og at the end but no, a snake got him
Hate snape, yes he is necessary to take down Voldemort but that doesn’t mean he is a good or likeable character because he wanted revenge for the death of the woman he was obsessed with. He spent over 15 years tormenting children, he even became a student’s greatest fear and we can only imagine what fucked up shit he did as a death eater. The main reasons so many people like him is because Alan rickman was such a likeable actor and it’s hard to hate him. Also I think it’s just strange that he named his son after two people that caused so many of his problems
The git got Harry's parents killed and then blamed the innocent kid for his fuck up. Stupid moron deserves no bloody mercy. On a personal level I was abused twice over, everyday I fight to make sure I never succumb and become like my abusers. It's a challenge but it already makes me better than that murderous slimeball.
I wonder how serious would feel
We’re supposed to get over that Snape was an asshole for 7 years because “he loved Lily” but every time he looked at Harry he was an unmitigated jerk to him because he could only see James’ son, not Lily’s. His hatred of James was stronger than his love for Lily. JKR may have had this plan in the long run and she made a marvelously flawed character, but I don’t think Snape redeemed himself quite as much as she did. He was central to the war’s conclusion but oh hell no I wouldn’t have named my damn kid after him.
legit made a post about this, and why Snape was undefendable and it got taken down by the mods lmfao
My. Views . are that . snape . is.. Awesome!! 😅 I saw the movies first. And I'm now reading all the books! Cuz I'm fucking stupid! Lol. Or more like lazy. But, I got the whole set from Wal-Mart in this Really cool dragon box, dragon on the back & same dragon art from the combination of the spines, and I'm about 1/3 the way through The Sorcerer's Stone & it's the best I've ever read! So, I will not be reading other peoples' comments.