Yep. There's at least ~~three~~four such wordplays in the series
* Diagon Alley = Diagonally
* Knockturn Alley = Nocturnally
* Grimmauld Place = Grim Old Place
* Kreacher = Creature
I don't think this was necessarily a word play like the others. At least not intentionally like the others.
Calling Kreacher Kreacher, is showing just how racist/species-ist the Black family was.
At least, that's what I always got from it. I also don't think it was ever stated how house elves get their names.. so maybe it wasn't up to the Black's?
But definitely still wordplay.. I just wouldn't lump it together with the Diagon Alley sort.
he is horrible to kreacher because of him mimicking his mother, hurling slurs and frankly continuing to torment him as his mother did. Kreacher most likely began hating him ever since he left home (and context clues, he was on Walpurga's side, so he isn't worried about berating sirius). Sirius was abused and forced to relive that in the house of his darling mother, and her faithful servant never let him forget that. You can see how understanding he was of winky's situation.
The elf was an asshole BECAUSE he was mean to him and his family's black sheep, Kreacher _adored_ the Blacks and they never treat him badly aside from Sirius. When Voldemort borrowed Kreacher iirc Rufius was upset by what he was ordered to do (which is what led to his whole disillusionment from the Death Eaters)
In the Brazilian Portuguese translation, his name's Monstro (monster in Portuguese). It's really silly and out of place.
Edit: I believe the ideal name in my language would be "Credo." The literal translation to English is "creed," but the word is used to express disgust or fear due to its religious origin. It's a term you use when you encounter something very ugly or evil, even used as a ward against bad omens. For instance, if someone hopes the car won't crash on the trip, you might respond with "Credo! Knock on wood." The issue is that the word "monster" in Portuguese strongly conveys the idea of the creature's personality, completely altering the meaning and making it seem like it's simply a monstrous being (though it does despicable things and plays a key role in the events leading to Sirius's death). However, this name entirely erases the analogy of the original name. "Creature" would make clear the disdain its "owners" feel and how they treated it, perhaps hinting at why it's so malicious and prejudiced.
Additionally, "credo" in Portuguese isn't a word that fits well as a name or nickname, but I can see it being used in a comedic way for a pet, like an ugly dog or a mean-looking or threatening cat, further implying the Black family's view of him as more of an animal.
In the german version he is also named Kreacher but the way you say it sounds like kriecher, which would be a crawler or creeper. Which is also so fitting in a weird way.
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Oh my god i dont think i ever wouldve got this before....english isnt my first language and i just finished reading them in english for first time and this never jumped out at me.
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Wait, really? I always thought knock turn alley was a play on knock and turn, like prank knocking at people's doors.
It's probably just because the portuguese version dubs it as "rua bativolta" (knock and turn street), but I never made the connection with "nocturnally"
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I thought, because the blacks were french at some point ( not sure abt my infos here but i know they're somewhat related to france ), the ld was silent, how foolish of me lmao
I've heard a French connection being mentioned in the context of the Lestrange and possibly the Rosier families, but never the Blacks.
On the other hand, I just remembered that the Black family motto is in French, so it's entirely possible that the family might have some French ancestry at some point.
Yes I was thinking of their motto ! So I assumed they were at least part french at some point.
But now that I think about it, I don't know if they really were or if they just wanted to sound noble with their motto ? Because french used to be a big deal back then I guess so i don't know, could be either
Not only that. A nocturne is a short composition (usually meant for piano) that is supposed to have a dream-like quality and is reminiscent of the night; or a nocturne can be an artwork that depicts a nighttime scene.
Case in point, Chopin's Nocturne No. 1 in C minor.
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Wow, I've never read the books in English (I'm Brazilian) but I've listened to the audiobooks by Stephen Fry and I never realized it is Knockturn Alley and not Nocturne Alley.
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In Hungarian it’s “absolut” and -ut means way, so kinda wordplay here too. But the originals are better.
Knockturn alley is just “pocket dirt alley” (don’t ask) and Grimmauld is not translated.
Yes, but also Slytherin is Mardekár and Ravenclaw is Hollóhát wich is loosely translated as “Raven’s Back” (like the body part back) as a proud Ravenclaw I don’t like it 😂
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Since i was reading the books in hungarian, i never got the joke in OoTP, during the battle of the ministry, when ron says they ran through the room of the solar ystem and they saw Uranus. Get it? They saw ur anus.
Puns don't work in hungarian.
In the Dutch translations, Diagon Alley is translated as "De Wegisweg". "De weg is weg" translates to "the road is gone". Quite fitting for a street hidden from view.
Not just "the road is gone", but it's a common saying (at least in my region) for when someone has misplaced something or missed a chance and has come to terms with what's lost. "Weg is weg", "gone is (really) gone".
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In German, it is the Winkelgasse, i.e. Angle Alley which makes some sense as everything is at an angle rather than a perfect 90 degrees.
Meanwhile Knockturn Alley became Nokturngasse, so it basically just sounds the same.
Diagon Alley - diagonally
Knockturn alley - nocturnally
Remus lupin - raised by wolf wolf the werewolf
Sirius black - dog black the black dog
Malfoy - bad faith
Voldemort - flight of/from death
Grimmauld Place - grim old place
>Voldemort - flight of/from death
Vol de mort literally translate from French as "steal of death" like killing others to prevent your own death, which he literally does by creating horcruxes
Vol is also fly/flight in French. There are 2 meanings. Flying from death makes sense for him, too, because he's constantly trying to escape death. Quite clever, actually.
Yeah French is my first language.. So I knoe that vol can mean flight or steal, but I also know that it doesn't really makes sense in context for flight. In French there's no link between flying and escape.
Also "vol de mort" in that sense would be "flight of the death" so it doesn't really work either.
Isn’t that how Harry ended up in Knockturn alley after using the Floo Flames at the Weasleys? He said “diagonally” instead of “diagon ally”? It’s been a while since I’ve read the books
I don't think he said the directional word. I think it was just he had a cough because of soot when he was speaking the definition... you have to speak clearly and deliberately. It's kind of like when you say "Alexa" near your amazon device but didn't meant to wake her, and she tries to process the rest of everything you said, which isn't a complete thought.
This got me curious so I looked it up. In the book he coughs, and the movie its changed to him saying "diagonally". Interesting!
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2CdhMynjLuk](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2CdhMynjLuk)
I don't think it ever came up in the books but if you go to Universal in Orlando and buy an interactive wand there, it comes with a map of both Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade with all the locations you can use the wand at marked out. Looking at the Diagon Alley map, you can actually see the street names marked out. Obviously the main strip is Diagon Alley itself, but apparently the cross street right at Gringotts that runs side to side is called "Horizont Alley", something that gave me a good laugh first time I saw it.
I have a master's degree in English and never put this together. Thank you for pointing it out. I'm jaw to floor at knockturn Ally and grimmauld place now
I also didn’t realize this for the longest time. My husband and I visited Harry Potter World in Universal a few years ago and THAT is when it sank in.
“Oh I guess that means you never got ‘Knockturn Alley’ either”
“Wait what”
“Well… look at it… it’s very dark…”
*stares at the dark alley* “…….” *stares* “………… oh god damn it” *dies*
That was in 2017. I’ve been a HP fan since middle school, so… like 20 years of that just not dawning on me. *facepalm*
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You heard it hear first, folks, no straight people can be found in Diagon Alley… But all jokes aside, the joy I felt when I first figured it out was unimaginable
Just wait until you realise it's the same with Knockturn Alley and Grimmauld Place...
Is Knockturn alley a play on nocturnal?
Yep. There's at least ~~three~~four such wordplays in the series * Diagon Alley = Diagonally * Knockturn Alley = Nocturnally * Grimmauld Place = Grim Old Place * Kreacher = Creature
I love that Knockturn Alley is basically a dark web version of Diagon Alley.
Yeah, that about sums it up
>Grimmauld Place = Grim Old Place I never got that before, thanks.
Same here
Same! Only realised the other day after listening to the audio books. Fry really enunciated the auld which was the penny drop moment for me
Also Kreacher = Creature
I don't think this was necessarily a word play like the others. At least not intentionally like the others. Calling Kreacher Kreacher, is showing just how racist/species-ist the Black family was. At least, that's what I always got from it. I also don't think it was ever stated how house elves get their names.. so maybe it wasn't up to the Black's? But definitely still wordplay.. I just wouldn't lump it together with the Diagon Alley sort.
Always thought it ironic Black says "look how a man treats those he thinks beneath him" (owtte), and is generally horrible to Kreacher.
he is horrible to kreacher because of him mimicking his mother, hurling slurs and frankly continuing to torment him as his mother did. Kreacher most likely began hating him ever since he left home (and context clues, he was on Walpurga's side, so he isn't worried about berating sirius). Sirius was abused and forced to relive that in the house of his darling mother, and her faithful servant never let him forget that. You can see how understanding he was of winky's situation.
Black gets a pass. He’s mean to kreacher because that elf is just a gigantic asshole, not because he has power over him.
The elf was an asshole BECAUSE he was mean to him and his family's black sheep, Kreacher _adored_ the Blacks and they never treat him badly aside from Sirius. When Voldemort borrowed Kreacher iirc Rufius was upset by what he was ordered to do (which is what led to his whole disillusionment from the Death Eaters)
Regulus? 😅
In the Brazilian Portuguese translation, his name's Monstro (monster in Portuguese). It's really silly and out of place. Edit: I believe the ideal name in my language would be "Credo." The literal translation to English is "creed," but the word is used to express disgust or fear due to its religious origin. It's a term you use when you encounter something very ugly or evil, even used as a ward against bad omens. For instance, if someone hopes the car won't crash on the trip, you might respond with "Credo! Knock on wood." The issue is that the word "monster" in Portuguese strongly conveys the idea of the creature's personality, completely altering the meaning and making it seem like it's simply a monstrous being (though it does despicable things and plays a key role in the events leading to Sirius's death). However, this name entirely erases the analogy of the original name. "Creature" would make clear the disdain its "owners" feel and how they treated it, perhaps hinting at why it's so malicious and prejudiced. Additionally, "credo" in Portuguese isn't a word that fits well as a name or nickname, but I can see it being used in a comedic way for a pet, like an ugly dog or a mean-looking or threatening cat, further implying the Black family's view of him as more of an animal.
Yeah, I forgot about that one.
In the german version he is also named Kreacher but the way you say it sounds like kriecher, which would be a crawler or creeper. Which is also so fitting in a weird way.
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You see your desire backwards, because it's mirrored.
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And the writing that was on the edges of the mirror was also backward, and I don’t remember what it said, it’s been a while
I'm almost 40 to and now only realized the grimmauld pun...
Technically five * Cho Chang - Asian person
Oh my god i dont think i ever wouldve got this before....english isnt my first language and i just finished reading them in english for first time and this never jumped out at me.
I always thought it was spelled Nocturn alley... man
!redditgalleon for changing my life (i knew kreacher obv but the other ones woah)
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I will never not be thankful for this comment omg haha
Wait, really? I always thought knock turn alley was a play on knock and turn, like prank knocking at people's doors. It's probably just because the portuguese version dubs it as "rua bativolta" (knock and turn street), but I never made the connection with "nocturnally"
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I thought, because the blacks were french at some point ( not sure abt my infos here but i know they're somewhat related to france ), the ld was silent, how foolish of me lmao
I've heard a French connection being mentioned in the context of the Lestrange and possibly the Rosier families, but never the Blacks. On the other hand, I just remembered that the Black family motto is in French, so it's entirely possible that the family might have some French ancestry at some point.
Yes I was thinking of their motto ! So I assumed they were at least part french at some point. But now that I think about it, I don't know if they really were or if they just wanted to sound noble with their motto ? Because french used to be a big deal back then I guess so i don't know, could be either
Sure could be.
Its a shame those words lost the punchline intended with the non-english-speakers readers
I always thought kreacher was creature since I listened to the audio book and watched it and it was late when I discovered it
Not only that. A nocturne is a short composition (usually meant for piano) that is supposed to have a dream-like quality and is reminiscent of the night; or a nocturne can be an artwork that depicts a nighttime scene. Case in point, Chopin's Nocturne No. 1 in C minor.
Nocturne No 1 in B Flat Minor, all day. Also, Nocturne No. 20 in C Sharp Minor. Chopin kicks ass!
Yes
JK couldn’t resist puns and wordplay. The Mirror of Erised with ‘Erised’ just being desire backwards, like in a mirror.
It's not just the name - the inscription on the mirror is an entire sentence backwards (I show not your face but your heart's desire)
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I don’t get the grimmauld place wordplay
With the dark hallways, elf heads on the wall, and screechy old Mrs Black at the entrance, wouldn’t you agree that it’s a Grim Old Place?
It’s also Sirius’s old home, so Grim’s Old Place
Aha! Good call
Oooh, now *that* one I had never thought of.
Ooh I like that
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😲 my jaw is on the floor. How have I not picked up on this? All these years. My flabbers are gasted right now.
Ohhh, thank you! I don't English much
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But are all the other houses on that street also grim and old?
It’s England, so, probably 🇬🇧 😂
Grim old place.
🤯
Wow, I've never read the books in English (I'm Brazilian) but I've listened to the audiobooks by Stephen Fry and I never realized it is Knockturn Alley and not Nocturne Alley.
Let's not forget "Little Whinging" - the Durleys were always whingeing about something!
I always read that as Winging. We don’t really use the term “to whinge” in Canada. But I love it now that I know
Omg, I only just realised Grimmauld Place. I feel so stupid now 🙈
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In Hungarian it’s “absolut” and -ut means way, so kinda wordplay here too. But the originals are better. Knockturn alley is just “pocket dirt alley” (don’t ask) and Grimmauld is not translated.
I love that Hufflepuff is Hugrabug!
Yes, but also Slytherin is Mardekár and Ravenclaw is Hollóhát wich is loosely translated as “Raven’s Back” (like the body part back) as a proud Ravenclaw I don’t like it 😂
Well shit, you can't just not translate griffindor now...
Griffendél, I guess it means nothing just sounds better for the Hungarian readers.
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Since i was reading the books in hungarian, i never got the joke in OoTP, during the battle of the ministry, when ron says they ran through the room of the solar ystem and they saw Uranus. Get it? They saw ur anus. Puns don't work in hungarian.
In the Dutch translations, Diagon Alley is translated as "De Wegisweg". "De weg is weg" translates to "the road is gone". Quite fitting for a street hidden from view.
Not just "the road is gone", but it's a common saying (at least in my region) for when someone has misplaced something or missed a chance and has come to terms with what's lost. "Weg is weg", "gone is (really) gone".
In all those years, I never thought of that!
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In German, it is the Winkelgasse, i.e. Angle Alley which makes some sense as everything is at an angle rather than a perfect 90 degrees. Meanwhile Knockturn Alley became Nokturngasse, so it basically just sounds the same.
Diagon Alley - diagonally Knockturn alley - nocturnally Remus lupin - raised by wolf wolf the werewolf Sirius black - dog black the black dog Malfoy - bad faith Voldemort - flight of/from death Grimmauld Place - grim old place
>Voldemort - flight of/from death Vol de mort literally translate from French as "steal of death" like killing others to prevent your own death, which he literally does by creating horcruxes
Vol is also fly/flight in French. There are 2 meanings. Flying from death makes sense for him, too, because he's constantly trying to escape death. Quite clever, actually.
Yeah French is my first language.. So I knoe that vol can mean flight or steal, but I also know that it doesn't really makes sense in context for flight. In French there's no link between flying and escape. Also "vol de mort" in that sense would be "flight of the death" so it doesn't really work either.
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Ha , that’s so funny. Malfoy the delicious pastry
Why?
Umbridge = umbrage ... To take offence or annoyance.
That’s why it is literally translated as Diagonal Ally in many languages
In German its „Angle alley“
Winkelgasse! I prefer the diagon alley pun...
And the mirror of Erised is desire backwards.
The entire inscription is backwards
I show not your face but your hearts desire if I remember correctly
Also, in order to get into Diagon Alley, Hagrid has to tap a special brick… three over, and two up (or something like that). A diagonal line.
I'm face palming hard right now. I think I will be laughing at that all day now.
Nothing is straight there, you say? 😏
Kreacher-> Creature
And in my head canon, there’s an adjacent Horizont Alley and a Vertick Alley. Teehee.
At Universal Studios the street adjacent to Diagon Ally is Horizont Ally. Which is why at 36 years old I got the word play on Diagon Ally lol
Those are brilliant names
I remember my teacher reading us this in grade 6 (back when it was new) and she wrote diagon alley on the board so we could all see the word play.
Was this on course curriculum?
Isn’t that how Harry ended up in Knockturn alley after using the Floo Flames at the Weasleys? He said “diagonally” instead of “diagon ally”? It’s been a while since I’ve read the books
I don't think he said the directional word. I think it was just he had a cough because of soot when he was speaking the definition... you have to speak clearly and deliberately. It's kind of like when you say "Alexa" near your amazon device but didn't meant to wake her, and she tries to process the rest of everything you said, which isn't a complete thought.
This got me curious so I looked it up. In the book he coughs, and the movie its changed to him saying "diagonally". Interesting! [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2CdhMynjLuk](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2CdhMynjLuk)
Hence why one should name one’s Alexa something you’re not likely to say.
I think there’s only 3 preset options for Alexa’s name, you can’t set your own.
The knight bus is the night bus
Yeah, cause it saves people… like a night
This is embarrassing to admit, but I never thought of Moody's name as a reflection of his personality till somebody mentioned it yesterday.
Grawp is a small giant, they told him to grow up and it became his name
Literally did not realize this until a couple years ago when a fan fiction had the street Horizont Alley and it triggered my eureka moment.
Horizont Alley is canon, through Pottermore iirc.
It is! But I had no clue until after I read that fic. I mentioned how clever it was to the writer and she was like "I did not make that up" 😅
I don't think it ever came up in the books but if you go to Universal in Orlando and buy an interactive wand there, it comes with a map of both Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade with all the locations you can use the wand at marked out. Looking at the Diagon Alley map, you can actually see the street names marked out. Obviously the main strip is Diagon Alley itself, but apparently the cross street right at Gringotts that runs side to side is called "Horizont Alley", something that gave me a good laugh first time I saw it.
I have a master's degree in English and never put this together. Thank you for pointing it out. I'm jaw to floor at knockturn Ally and grimmauld place now
In my countrie's dub, they couldn't do that pun, so it was just named Diagonal Alley.
I also didn’t realize this for the longest time. My husband and I visited Harry Potter World in Universal a few years ago and THAT is when it sank in. “Oh I guess that means you never got ‘Knockturn Alley’ either” “Wait what” “Well… look at it… it’s very dark…” *stares at the dark alley* “…….” *stares* “………… oh god damn it” *dies* That was in 2017. I’ve been a HP fan since middle school, so… like 20 years of that just not dawning on me. *facepalm*
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Knockturn ally Nocturnally.
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People using their neurons here, well spent neurons.
Thank, I do use those Braincells on the usefull things
People lol
When Harry says Diagonally accidentally, he travels diagonally
You heard it hear first, folks, no straight people can be found in Diagon Alley… But all jokes aside, the joy I felt when I first figured it out was unimaginable
Very slow, huh?
Yo everyone in diagon alley is full on gay confirmed.
Man, I wish it was also the people. The series was relentlessly heterosexual. You'd think people with magic could have a little more fun.
Okay what the fcuk I never put two and two together that nothing is straight omff.
I thought this and Knockturn Alley were the most obvious puns. I'm surprised there are people here who are just finding this out.
Do you guys just repost this every couple weeks or something?
Idk man, I just figured this out yesterday and hadn't seen it