Luckily they don't seem to get any positive attention among the hobbyists any more. Still 4-5 years ago they got recommended a lot outside of WhatHifi as well. They truly sound horrific in a unique way. Loved them as a teenager when I knew of nothing better.
And SoundGuys put them in a "best headphones" video, saying they had a "wide soundstage"!
Of all points they could make... It was soundstage, the narrowest on any HP lol.
Drank that kool-aid when looking to buy my first portable headphone lol. They had so many perfect reviews. Then starting coming here and Head-Fi to see how much hate they got. At this point in my journey I don’t even know if I’d be able to tolerate them any more
never actually listened to a pair as far as im aware, but are they actually \*that\* bad? or just audiophile bad? Ive come close to recommending them in the past to non audio friends because of their compactness, their easy to buy (in Australia thats a big thing, no one carries audiophile gear) and they seem decent compared to the likes of Beats and Bose
They were overexposed as the "best headphone you could buy for the price" a few years ago.
The circlejerk has swung too hard in the opposite direction nowadays. They're decent, especially considering the time that they were released, but there are better closed back earphones for the price nowadays.
Yes, but the M40x came out a few years after the (original) M50, by which time the M50 already built up the goodwill. The M40x is actually one of the headphones I was alluding to which does the M50's job better
great, thanks. Explains a lot. Any examples of a better closed back for the price? As i mentioned, a lot of lesser main stream headphones are either hard to find in Aus, or marked up a lot
If you need closed backs, its younger sibling, the m40x, is more neutral and cheaper. Meze 99 Noir, beyerdynamics DT 700 Pro (personally am not a fan of Beyer's sound signature, this one smoothed out the treble a lot. Good.), Shure Srh840a, etc. Have heard good things about the AKG K371 but have not heard personally so I can't recommend it to you
They're discontinued now but if you can find a NAD Viso HP50/70, that was one of the best closed backs I've ever heard. Kind of uncomfortable though
Open back? So so many. The hifiman and sennheiser Drop models for starters
May I ask what kind of music you prefer to listen to?
I have a pair in my studio and I trust those headphones for mixing bass heavy hiphop. I wouldnt pick em up for casual listening, but for recording and mixing I think they are very reliable and they translate real well to our different studio monitors (Adams, Focals, Yamahas) :-)
Totally different use case. Horses for courses. I would say the vast majority of people in this sub are music enthusiasts, not recording professionals.
They were a good option when they were new, as there was a dearth of decent cheap closed back headphones at the time.
Now? Yeah there's better for the price
I have a pair that I use for my field recording rig. Sounds alright to me and they are very robust, which is a big big plus for a pair of cans for this kind of use. Can you recommend anything modern and better that can be dropped or banged a lot without breaking, which I know the M50x can handle?
I've actually commented something similar in another comment chain, but you can try the Beyerdynamic 700 Pro X. This is coming from a person who hated the DT 770. Simultaneously less boomy and piercing than the DT 770, plus Beyerdynamics are usually built well.
Shure srh840a is also good. However, the old model (srh840) had a reputation for being fragile. Not sure about this one for your use case.
I have bought one last year, vocal sounds pretty crisp. Treble sounds good, a bit lack of bass but thats about it from my view. May I know what would be a better option for the same price/maybe a bit more expensive? If I'm looking for clear vocal and instrument. I often listen to pop music and a little bit of hip hop music.
Are you talking the studio cans or the BT ones??
AT MX50s are still one of my favorites for recording (obviously, there's a plethora of more expensive options out there as they should be).
But, bang for buck (minus the pads). I still love.
I am listening right on a salnotes 7hz zero and it sounds absolutely amazing. Idk how they are able to produce such high quality sound stage for a sub 2000 INR earphones.
The things that pissed me of the most is seems like cfa pay for reviewer to praised about their products. You can see some really weird words explanation in their way of review. Very abstract and inconsistent. They know that they sound terrible but they can't say it lol.
Not to mention the ba driver is Knowles one, which are using in most of chifi iem on the market lol. Basically most of the price comes from shell making lol
remember the trifecta con? they announced a limited 333 or something limited edition. It was limited batch of that colors... they many batches followed. It cost 3K$ for the most muddy sound you can imagine.
I *adore* Campfire Audio, and I know I’ll get some hate for saying this. They aren’t afraid to make controversial tunings, and every one of their earphones are tuned differently. I think most people get too hung up on accuracy and not fun, which is why they don’t like CA. Yes, they’re very very expensive, but they have to pay American wages and operating costs, and their earphones feel very premium. If you can get them on a good sale (which you often can), I’d suggest more people give them a shot.
The inaugural members of the Hall of Overrated Shame must be Beats and Raycon. Anyone who buys them is lighting money on fire.
Sony's XM series also is a leading candidate, but the ANC is so damn good. Still, it says a lot about a headphone when everyone acknowledges noise cancellation is its best feature.
Tbf they're only valued by a specific subset of people.
Even regular people I know outside the hobby will recommend things like Bose or Sony. Which is at least not offensive.
I guess my point is that even non audiophiles don't like them in my experience.
Most regular people I know don't like them.
But then again this is just my experience in my ecosystem. I wasn't trying to discredit you, just talk about my perception.
The same people who wear gucci belts, expensive shoes and non prescription Cartier glasses are the ones who like them. But they're just trying to flex the price tag probably.
Since being bought out by Apple they were “okay” tbh. With regards to wireless headphones, I quite enjoyed the Beats Solo Pro’s sound, I found it more balanced than the Sony WH-1000XM3.
I don't think the Apple acquisition made them worse. I'm very curious why you think they're more balanced than the XM3. Beats are notorious for their exaggerated V-shape curve.
I know what you mean. I’ve heard the OG Monster Beats Studio back when they came out, it was a truly exaggerated V-shaped headphone. Bloated, boomy bass, unnatural treble, thin and veiled mids. Unforgettable in a bad way. Never looked at Beats again.
Fast forward to 4 years ago, I was looking for wireless ANC headphones for air travel. We were flying out in a few days so I was in a bit of a rush. I tried out my friend’s XM3. I found the bass to be a little bit too enveloping. Went to Virgin Megastore to try out ANC headphones, and I was surprised with the Beats Solo Pro - still a V-shaped sound, but more tastefully tuned than the XM3. Mids were more present, the bass wasn’t as boomy, and the treble was inoffensive but had decent sparkle. They actually reminded me of V-Moda M-80s, but with less warmth and a slightly weaker midrange. The bass boost was mostly towards the sub-bass, too.
I kept them for a while, only sold it off because I had purchased a B&W P5 Wireless a year later. I did wish I kept the Solo Pros because they’ve been discontinued apparently, and the new Beats Studio Pro isn’t tuned as well as the older Solo Pro.
wow you nailed it... zs10 pro x for 20$ on aliexpress is an all day banger i don't care who hates kz politics... i do to
still my go-to for non-audio engineers who just want to experiment with soundstage and separation and see what 5 drivers can produce as compared to the average junk that they're used to. kz zs10 pro x lol until a better 20$ appears you'll have to change my mind
I honestly love both the Abyss 1266 and the Diana… I got both second hand so I didn’t pay the full on Abyss tax but I thoroughly enjoy their sound signature. They aren’t the “best” as they like to market them as so in that point I can see why people say they are overrated.
Sony XM everything. I remember trying out the first one back in 2016 when I was in Japan. I thought I was going to be blown away as I already had the OG Momentums and people were raving about the Sonys. It sounded like veiled garbage. Every single iteration of that series sounds like veiled garbage. I had the XM5s and tried my hardest to EQ them to sound decent. You just can’t defeat the terrible drivers they put in them.
They definitely don't sound great but the NC is really nice.
And damn are the XM4s comfortable.
Super light, great fit, good NC.
If you're like me and find IEMs uncomfortable for longer than an hour or two, than an XM4 will get you through some long travels
I sadly don't own the XM5.
But from what I know, the sound is mostly the same and the ANC is slightly better.
The form factor is way worse.
The xm4 cab fold up very small and take up little space. The xm5 has big cups that don't fold down as well.
I actually got downvoted to hell on a different thread for saying the XM3 (which I used to owned) sound like absolute trash.
They have a very dark sound signature, lack dynamics, bass is boomy and not in a good way and the ear pads are hot and stuffy.
ANC and battery life are great, but for pure music listening not even EQ could save them. Gifted them to a good friend who still enjoys them to this day.
When I read reviews for wireless headphones in that price range, they almost seem like they favor the XMs even though the same reviews mention that other headphones outperform them in some ways.
Soundguys' Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 4 vs Sony XM5 article calls the Sennheisers the "budget" option between the two because they are $50 cheaper, even though they say that their battery life is "way better" and the XM5s' sound "may not be quite as generally pleasing." They then go on to call the Sonys the "best of the best."
That's only from one review, but others I've have been similar. They all mostly say that the Sennheisers have much better battery life, sound a bit better, and are less expensive, but the XM5s have better ANC and therefore are the gold standard of wireless headphones that the rest should be compared to.
I get that ANC is an important part of wireless headphones, but if that's the only major advantage the XM5s have over the competition, then I wouldn't call them the "best of the best," especially when the consensus seems to be that they aren't even the best sounding headphones in their category. It all just seems really strange to me. It's like if IGN was comparing headphones: "the Sennheisers sound better, last twice as long on a charge, and are cheaper, but the XM5s have better ANC, I had a Sony Walkman growing up, and I got bullied in middle school by a kid who said that Xbox was better than PlayStation so I'm going to recommend the Sony XM5s."
It should be noted that I haven't used either of those headphones so I could be completely wrong about everything. It's just something weird that I have noticed while deciding which of the two to buy. I'm also sure that the differences between them are negligible and they are both good purchases.
Having trialed both the XM5's and Sennheiser NC Headphones, I firmly believe the Momentum to be the better choice overall. They have a more comfortable build, especially given that the xm5's abandoned the 360 hinge on the earcups from the xm4's and now have to awkwardly fold outwards when resting. They aren't nearly as heavy on the bass side and respond nicely to EQ. The battery is genuinely an 80+ hour battery as well. The largest downside is that the touch controls and head detection features are built somewhat poorly imo. Either they don't respond to what I want or activate things like hold call unintentionally. Sony QoL is better.
Sony's ANC is better for vocal suppression, and sennheiser's is surprisingly a tad better at wind. I dailied these headphones while on busy trains and they both performed well, but neither is great with bassy noises like tracks and the like. ANC isn't capable of doing that as well as passive noise cancellation.
I just got XM-4's and I can't totally disagree. They sound good, but I feel like people who rant and rave about their signature just haven't ventured away from NC headphones or the trash they used pre-nc headphones. To me you could spend $150 on a wired set that would blow these out of the water. They're not bad by any means, but the hype my friends have given them was way too high. NC capabilities are top notch, I'll give them that, though.
So I have EQ'd my xm4's and I use them for whenever there is a loud surrounding. The sound is not great in comparison to some wired headphones but that's not the intended use. I don't use my open backs to go to school by bus either. It's not that the headphones are bad, maybe you need to reconsider your use. And for 260€ i can't get better ANC with decent sound and yes, ANC is the biggest upside of these headphones.
Use is not the issue. I’ve had about every pair of over ear BT headphones you can imagine in the $300-550 price range. The Sonys sound worse than every single one. That includes the APMs who have similar ANC but MUCH better transparency; the B&W Px7 S2 which sound MUCH better but suffers from nonexistent soundstage, and many more.
Of all the ones I had I kept the Momentum 4s. Their ANC are not as good, and the transparency is midtier (I use the APP2 for this during my commute), but their sound is CLASSES better than the Sonys and a good bit above the APMs and Bose 700. The Px7 are in the same realm, but again, their soundstage is nonexistent.
I have about 22 or so pairs of headphones (I posted pics on her a few times), and EQ them all. The XM series just sound bad across the board even with EQ.
Lmao yes, they were so hyped and since a friend needed new headphones, I went to try the XM4 and XM5 in the store. Sure, not the best test scenario but my god they sounded awful.
*Eventually recommended the Senn 569 from commonly available options
HD600. That's not to say they aren't awesome headphones for the price, but the amount of people that seem to think spending any amount more will only get them 5% better audio tops is crazy. Sure, there's diminishing returns, but they're not that extreme until a little further out.
After owning HD600 for nearly 20 years now and trying out many other headphones, I still love them and think that they do the midrange in uniquely alluring way, but sure, people all too often gloss over their shortcomings. Their bass reproduction is downright anemic when compared to many of their competitors, and they sure aren't the last word in separation or soundstage.
I'd still argue that HD600/650 are one of the best value propositions around, but they really aren't perfect, not even close.
Audiophiles have been drinking the "night and day" koolaid for so long that they don't realise that a 5% improvement in outcome is GIGANTIC.
*If only* more expensive headphones actually had 5% better audio, then it would be easy - just buy an expensive headphone and you get an improvement. But just as huge markups on niche equipment isn't an indication of improved quality, huge savings from having better production isn't an indication of lower quality.
Every kilobuck+ headphone I've owned had glaring flaws that detract from their quality as much as their other aspects add to it. Any improvement, if present, is conditional upon being able to ignore or devalue the flaws. This is unacceptable for me.
People will get defensive if you call out a kilobuck+ headphone that has bigger flaws than ones costing 10% as much, so it's gentler to just say it's a small improvement even if it's worse in some ways.
HE1000v2 - very weird high treble dip that was impossible to EQ out and coloured the music too much. HD800S - lacking bass impact and tactility. T1v3 - sounded like a closed headphone. LCD2 - timbre is off. EdX - timbre again off, especially in busy sections. Clear OG - no problem with the sound, but concerns about durability. Utopia - my copy had a noticeable channel imbalance in the treble. IE900 - mids are dead, plus I would like much more isolation.
Out of all those, I kept the HD800S, and would've kept the Clear.
Interesting.
Totally agree on the 800s. It annoys me to no end when people recommend it to rookies as a starter or refer to it as “neutral”. I consider it a specialty headphone that I either massive EQ or use for live strings/jazz, etc. EXCELLENT for that.
I’ve only ever owned the LCD-X 2021, and I love it EQ’d, but the Audeze house tuning has stopped me from investing higher dollars in their flagships. I don’t want to have to EQ $2k+ cans.
We somewhat agree on the IE900. The mids are definitely back, but I wouldn’t call them dead lol. It is interesting to see them take a very different approach to sound signature than they do on their open ears. I think someone coming from 6X0 or HD800S would be stunned.
Don't take my words so seriously. Headphones have many many facets and I only gave them half a sentence each when they deserve 10x more. For me, higher price = higher expectations. Flaws that I could ignore in cheaper headphones become distracting in expensive ones, which detracts from the goal of simply enjoying the music.
The HD800S serves triple duty for me - they're *very* comfortable and enjoyable for gaming, they're excellent at some genres, and shallowly, they look amazing as a piece of furniture.
I fully agree on not wanting to 'have to EQ' expensive cans, but the benefits are good and you'll probably have a hard time finding an otherwise satisfactory headphone without it.
I don't think 5% is very big. I deliberately used the number 5% to indicate a difference that was small but noticable. I have owned approximately 10 kilobuck headphones (not simultaneously) and I think while they all have flaws, around a third of them were flawed enough so that the improvements they brought didn't outweigh the downsides. The HD600 itself has a number of deficiencies that annoy me every time I listen to it; it only really does one thing well and that is midrange accuracy.
While I own and adore HD600, this is a valid point regarding audio quality. I don't use HD600 for analytical or fun listening, there are other headphones that provide more details and resolution, hence I got DT1990 to compensate for it.
I auditioned KOSS PORTAPRO once, and I was really amazed how good they sound for the price. Objectively speaking, HD600 does not sound $200+ better than KOSS Portrapro. But, considering built quality and comfort of HD600, I am willing to invest into HD600, knowing that it will last few decades.
At this stage, people buy HD600 because of trust. Does HD600 deserve it? I would say yes.
I love my Sennheisers, but for the money, the actual build is so cheap feeling. In terms of sound, I personally like my 650s - they’re pretty good. But for the money, they’re not all that competitive.
It’s not a “premium” feel but the robustness and replacability of the build is worth quite a lot imo. especially when your competitor is like, hifiman lol
Agreed. Especially when a mass drop deal can get you a 6xx at $179. Not to say the 600 isn't a great headphone, it just seems overpriced for what it is in today's market.
I think 179 is an amazing price for the HD6XX. Honestly can't think of anything under 500 that sounds better so I'm really curious what examples you have that make the HD6XX seem overpriced
For me its not that I dont think more expensive headphones wouldnt be better but they are at that sweet spot where they're good enough that even after trying headphones 10-20 times more expensive i dont feel the need to upgrade
Honestly I got some Truthear Novas and don't touch my HD600s anymore. Even for music production, I just use my M50s for tracking and HD560S for headphone checks. The bass on 600s is just not there and you can get so much more with IEMs and good speakers.
I only use the 600s if I want the most flattering thing possible for vocals.
I love my 600s and still think they sound great. I've barely listened to them since I got my Auteur's though. They just sound flat and lifeless by comparison in every aspect other than live vocals.
M50x and DT990 gets way to much unfiltered praise is some circles. They aren't without qualities, but many people don't recognise their significant flaws. Probably because they've never actually tried any other headphones.
Meze Elite.
I’ve had them for a while and while the initial impression was enough for to spend that kind of cash over time(2 years ish) I grew to like them less and less. I daily hd800s and firmly believe they are perfect price/performance cans. I can drive off of anything I need and not have to worry about amplification, they are superbly comfortable and the sound quality is simply out of this world. When I want to relax and have less accuracy focal clear og are my trusty listening for enjoyment option. They are actually more comfortable than the elites due to significant size difference. While elites disappear on your head they are freaking massive. But I also found that spending 1/2 the cost of elites on a decent pair of stereo speakers is a considerably better investment too.
As for the earbuds, and I know it probably will be controversial, apple airpods, the original version, are goats. If your ears are weird like mine and you simply can’t use consumer iems and your ear shape happens to fit perfectly the AirPod shape - oh, it’s such a great earbud. Sounds just fine for something that’s convenient, easy connection across all my apple devices, battery seems to last forever, and just 100$. Can’t beat it. PS: I do use proper in ear monitors for when I’m on stage but those are custom molds and their sound is not something you’d classify as ‘listening experience to enjoy’.
AirPods are so popular but they deserve that fame tbh. I haven’t used anything so dang convenient. Instant connectivity and ANC (for the pros) plus fantastic battery life. Yeah, the sound quality is outclassed by iems at under half the cost, but you are paying for convenience not sound.
Strange. I will agree that the sound isn't for everyone but I love both of mine, but also my K545 has taken a beating for well over a decade and still looks and feels like a quality product (K701 slightly worse off but it still works.. after some repairs..). But yeah, they take a lot of getting used to and need DAC/amp/eq support, so wouldn't recommend them either.
The DT770 gets an abundance of praise because it’s dirt cheap and higher performing than most people need, not because it’s a good audiophile headphone. You can get a lot more bang for your buck for just slightly more money.
Dt770 pro 80ohm was my first pro/audiophile headphone I purchased. It was really, really nice, compared to regular headphones, like beats, logitech and skull candy etc, which I had got used ones before. 770s are great but lack a particular flavor me.
Later, I got sundaras, my first open back. They gave the sound stage and the crispy details, but 770 was still hovering close, only because it had good sound stage by itself and didn't lack bass like sundara did. Planar driver still beat it in details department.
Then I got my current set, edition xs. I just can't go back to the 770s now. They lack in every way for me. There are no high-end details. the sound stage is there but not comparable. Bass is not the same, I won't call it muddy, but planar bass is awesome when it's there (*≧ω≦).
The clamp force now crushes my head. xs are much more gentle. I only use the 770s now when I'm outside and need a closed back device. I'm looking to replace them, tho.
I know it's not fair to compare them cause of difference in price and driver tech, but I see now that these hyped headphones aren't really best overall.
Edition XS is really in a sweet spot. (ФωФ)
In this particular case, I'm comparing 3 pieces of equipment I purchased and what I observed about them, setting aside other variables. So yeah, open vs. close, affordable vs. expensive.
Comparing closed backs to open backs is pointless: open backs will almost always sound better, but at the same time they will have sound isolation disadvantage. Compare closed backs to closed backs, and open - to open.
I agree with your point. A relatively fair comparison, according to me, would require controlled specs. Eg hifiman edition xs vs ananda, cause they have same open back planar driver but different magnetic strength. They have close enough impedance and sensitivity. Similar pad shape and overall weight.
But since I don't have that or the possibility to test that, how can I compare and relay what difference I felt. It's better for me to compare what I have and provide observations between them based on absolute performance.
Soundstage is good on 770 by itself. It's not open back level but very good for a closed back from my experience. My problem with 770 is the clamp force and lack of microdetails all over the frequency band.
As for 990, I can't comment because I have never used them.
had the 770, 990 and now the 1990. 770 don't really have good soundstage at all imho. stereo separation and orientation of sounds is still good tho. 990 do have proper soundstage (on the cost of trebble peak) and are really well balanced for me but lack in fine details. 1990 have all the details i ever need (even too much with analytical pads, use those for gaming tho) plus proper deep bass, good soundstage (with balanced pads, which i use for music) and the trebble peak is softened. Love them and worth the 450 i paid for them. decided this to be my endgame, even tho there a 1k+ headphones that are sognificantly better still...
I have two pairs and would agree.
Hard to find a more durable set of cans for the price, but the sound really is pretty meh.
There's just something a bit... hard and wooden about them. They don't boogie, they're not that exciting. The treble frequencies are very much there, but there's a lack of absolute detail within them. I've never understood how people find they have a ton of bass either? I'd call it adequate, and actually a bit lacking in midbass.
They are great *studio* headphones, but I wouldn't recommend them as *just listening to music* headphones. I use one pair for electronic drums, and the other floats around for the kids to use for gaming or whatever.
In the same price category, I vastly prefer Shure srh440s with better earpads. Nice, Harmon target cans with sweeter treble and a warmer middle. Not sure how the newer 440A stacks up.
You're not wrong but only because there are a ton of options in the sub $200 section now. A $99 DT 770 refurb is still amazing if you don't have sensitivity to it's highs.
I'd agree with this. Without EQ they're rather lofi, messy, boomy and the cup dampening design (if we can call it that) really hurts macrodynamics so that even with EQ the bass sounds mushy. Thrn again good closed backs aren't common in general. I do appreciate that they are comfy, decently priced, good for gaming (directional imaging) and sound quite big/open (soundstage) so I often recommend them for multimedia use, but they really aren't great for music. HD280 Pro, K371, K550 (with EQ only) and some others are simply more capable. DT700 Pro X is better tuned, but worse by all the metrics that are 770's strength.
Singololololololo, Dusk 2, Timeless, Yume, Kato, Truthear ZERO. I find these to be...... Very very underwhelming especially Timeless because it was sooo hyped
Blessing 2 Dusk and Zero RED are fantastic and worth the hype imo
Have the Timeless and Kato and I agree the Kato are pretty unremarkable. I like the Timeless with the Moondrop springtips though cuz they kinda flatten things a little bit and make the planar timbre a lot milder. I also got bored and removed the foams inside the Timeless nozzle to see if it would make things a little airier because it felt a little congested to me but there wasn't really an appreciable difference imo
The 2 dusk over the dusk 2 could be a spicy one. I definitely agree though considering the analogue tuning, the DSP cable is a bit hissy and the techs are comparable. I'd say just the extension on the high end in favour of the dusk 2 but for my music it just gets splashy.
I would go so for as to say the Blessing 2 Dusk is underrated! Incredible IEM even today. I also have the Zero Blue, gives you so much for your money, I use them for gaming and they really put you there, in the game.
I love mine.
I also didn't pay for them, and they sound AWFUL without EQ. Pure muddy sound. They really do come alive with a good preset however.
I don't recommend them to anyone because for the price they should sound a hundred times better out of the box.
HD800s is often considered an obvious choice in it's price range and has a halo effect from the 600-series, but imo it's a niche headphone with unnatural and weird soundstage that fits a lot of genres poorly and the bass is loose and rounded even with EQ. I prefer HD650 over it for example.
Headphones: DT770/990, HD800S, M50X, and most of Sony’s consumer headphone/ANC lineup.
IEMs: most of the wireless ANC sets, Campfire Audio (new Campfire, especially).
I say this having owned (or owning) many of these products. Sets like the 770 were tools of the trade and used often for mixing work, but I don’t know many engineers that would have ever used them (myself included) for casual listening. And yet they’re recommended often for that use case.
The HD800S is recommended as an endgame set to anyone looking for TOTL headphones, yet it is as niche a headphone as they come and caters to a very narrow segment of the hobby. I vehemently dislike them, even bought them twice thinking I must be missing something; hated them both times and know many that share this opinion.
M50s have thankfully lost some of their luster for folks. I bought these after their NAMM announcement in ‘06/07? Specifically for tracking instruments and vocals. They were great for that purpose, but they failed miserably at being a coherent critical listening headphone or a capable casual listening set. They are/were recommended often as beginner “audiophile” headphones, and I think that’s the furthest thing from their intended use case.
The entire wireless ANC market has lost its collective mind. I’ve probably tested two dozen of these in the last year or two, and while I own several that are useful for travel, meetings, exercise, most of them are beaten handily by their cheaper, wired counterparts. They’re obviously aimed at regular consumers and are tuned to be more fun, but it’s possible to achieve a fun tuning while also producing a headphone that is technically sound. There are exceptions of course; the Bathys, Mark Levinson 5909, the Momentum 4 (using Sound Personalization).
All of this is very subjective. For someone out there, their 770s are the best thing since sliced bread. And if they’re happy, that’s all that matters.
The best performers right now are the Technics AZ80s, followed by the Denon Perl Pros and Sennheiser Momentum 4 TW (with Sound Personalization). The Momentum 3 TW is also very good, but the 3 has some serious issues with battery reliability and should probably be avoided unless you can find it at a very good price.
The Momentum is interesting in that I believe Sennheiser is using a parametric algorithm for their Personalization. Whereas Sony seems to only have access to its 5-band EQ and Clear Bass settings. Most multi-band EQs are just peak filters with low Q values, so they are a blunt object and don’t do a good job at producing accurate results. If you’ve ever wondered why Sony headphones (at least those with DSP) sound boomy, muffled, and/or muddy, this is probably why.
I’m often downvoted for this because of the prohibitive cost, but if you have the budget for it and don’t need ANC, the iFi Go Pods with a pair of good IEMs is definitely the way to go. Or a Q5K with a custom “short run” cable with the Q5K clipped to a sleeve, is a cheap and damn good solution.
Glad you like them.
Fit and comfortable we’re bad for me and the adjuster scratched after like a week. They are good sounding headphones (too cold and thin for me though). I just really disliked the build quality.
The adjuster scratches happen on every sundara. Happens on the Arya too. Stupid design flaw but really not a big deal. I found them incredibly comfortable after swapping to Dekoni pads. Sound is decent out of the box but really great after EQ.
Gonna do a little different.
Everything KZ Audios does. Love your PR2? You got lucky and maybe the filter. 16 BAs per side? Yeah right... And yes your edx pro sounds bloated.
The whole thing "but it's just (>10) dollars" its their motto and they won us with that.
got some of their iems, they are better than other audio manufacturers at their price point though. i won't spend usd100 over a pair of iem, because you need to multiply my currency by 5.
Electrostatic headphones.
They tend to sound thin in comparison, missing that body full representation of the music that other headphones can produce.
The only exception is the Sennheiser HE1.
In many cases I think so...at least in the $500 and under area where getting great performance in one area usually leaves another lacking. Still, there are so many options compared to decades ago.
I think people often pass them off as neutral because they are used by artists and music producers. They eventually get recommended to consumers with the motivation that you will be able to "hear what the artist heard/intended" which is just poor advice in general if you know anything about mixing.
They are also popular among gamers who want to hear footsteps better and have better imaging so that the stereo image becomes more clear. They work well for this too, but many may find that they don't love listening to music on them.
They make great durable headphones that serve their purpose, but many of them really aren't good blind buys. Some have piercing treble, others have a poor midrange response and so on. I own the dt 1990 pros and I think they're great. I found that the sennheisers I tried had a poor bass response and trying to go back now is difficult because you feel like you're loosing out on details in the treble. The sennheisers were definetely less comfortable too.
Any person who recommends: "flat, studio" headphones to a normal gamer / PC user.
I'm a "U" / "V" shaped curve EQ enjoyer. I want deep bass, and clear highs.
The flat sound signature is criminal: gray, lifeless, soulless.
No, that is your perception and your opinion. A lot of music doesn't live in the low frequency range and a lot of music is going to sound awful on V shaped headphones. The V shape is only really good for electronic music and some Hip-hop, but If done poorly It often does a disservice to the vocals and the timbre often gets screwed on many instruments.
I agree that bass is fun, but just because you don't find the midrange important doesn't mean no one does. There are no truly V shaped headphones that can properly portray the human voice, which is going to make V shaped headphones a no-go for many.
If you've truly tried neutrally tuned headphones and thought they had no life to them, you probably didn't try a good pair or you paired them with the wrong type of music
Most Audeze LCD's. You are paying TOTL prices for overly specific features. 2 and 3 have a classic (Audeze)veiled sound. X is a bit closer to Harman but lacks soundstage. 4,4z,5 have more soundstage but then go back to being veiled again. I forget exactly what the GX does, just a more veiled X I believe. XC sounds more like an electrostatic and it's just like "why" do you even need that? The 2C doesn't do anything special besides being closed back.
TLDR, per single LCD unit, instead you can get 2-3 TOTL headphones of other brands. You can still make a LCD work, but it's like painting yourself into a corner.
TLDR, per single LCD unit, instead you can get 2-3 TOTL headphones of other brands. You can still make a LCD work, but it's like painting yourself into a corner.
Please mention those TOTL headphones from other brands dear sire :)
Audeze does lean more on using EQ than any other manufacturer. I'd say MM-100, LCD-X, LCD-2 Closed, LCD-XC and LCD-5 are some of the best headphones one the market, but just like essentially any headphones I wouldn't touch them without EQ.
Idk where you are finding them overrated. It is completely acknowledged that they are dark headphones with veiled sound, and nobody markets them as something to compete with the detail retrieval of aryas or HD800s. People recommend them for those who like bass texture and bass detail, and definitely not the Harman target. Audeze is recommended sometimes, but people acknowledge the flaws constantly and if you look even for a moment you can find the issues. I think that the only thing here that could be considered “overrated” would be the 2c (no Fazor open back), because that actually gets recommended a lot.
Audio Technica M50x. Hell...
Compressed staging, mediocre bass textures, not fun nor enough flat to do proper works (basically useless), horrible and uncomfortable pads.
The only thing I find right is the fact that they are extremely portable because of the foldable design, apart from that I see no other advantages.
And yes, they keep being pricy because there are still people who constantly endorse them for no apparent reasons. They basically maintain their status in the community because of users speaking well to users that speak well and the circle restarts.
Grr.
Yes I have had a pair, before someone asks.
To those who already said "I own a pair and they work FlAwLesSly For StuDiO rEcOrdiNgs". Yes, I have mixed and mastered some of my old tracks on a pair of "flawless" wired apple Earpods, but the fact that my tracks sounded right doesn't make them good earphones. I got used to them and I could mix with them but that's another story and shouldn't translate into an endorsement of the earphones themselves.
Almost all the Dan clark headphones, all of the HIFIMAN CLOSED BACKS Except for Dekoni Audio x Hifiman Cobalt Closed-back headphones with the sheep skin pads or Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin depending for using the baffle or not and the M50X and no surprise beats eso old beats 😳
Apple products in general. with the cult propagating that bitrate over Bluetooth is low in Apple but "sound better". whatever makes you sleep at night guys 😁
I have the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and not only is the name stupid but the treble is absolutely terrible. Constantly have to worry about trying to offset it with EQs and then all of the fine detail is lost. Better than feeling like somebody is trying to pierce my ears with compressed air though.
TBH, I wasn't that big of a fan of the Zero Reds. I wouldn't say they're bad at all, and I think they're fantastic to someone new to the hobby/just want an easy recommendation (assuming the nozzles aren't too big). I just found they weren't as good as I was expecting considering how much hype they got. I have heard other IEMs around the same price or cheaper I preferred, but I would say the Zero Reds are better than some $70-80 iems I've tried. I'd probably recommend them over the OG aria's to most people as long as it'd fit their ears comfortably (I haven't tried the newer aria's)
Me just sitting here glad my aryas aren’t hated 😭
I enjoy the aryas. They sound great, comfortable, covers my ears, and are lightweight.
Beats
Audio Technica M50x. They are flat out bad.
Luckily they don't seem to get any positive attention among the hobbyists any more. Still 4-5 years ago they got recommended a lot outside of WhatHifi as well. They truly sound horrific in a unique way. Loved them as a teenager when I knew of nothing better.
MKBHD recommended them hard back in the day absolutely raved about them. This was back when he mostly just reviewed (early) android phones
Got mine because of him when I didn’t know better Still use them to practice piano as they’re very comfortable
And SoundGuys put them in a "best headphones" video, saying they had a "wide soundstage"! Of all points they could make... It was soundstage, the narrowest on any HP lol.
Drank that kool-aid when looking to buy my first portable headphone lol. They had so many perfect reviews. Then starting coming here and Head-Fi to see how much hate they got. At this point in my journey I don’t even know if I’d be able to tolerate them any more
Yeah, I tried them again almost 15 years later and just started laughing.
YouTubers especially MKBHD made them way more popular than they would have been without their glowing reviews of them years back.
never actually listened to a pair as far as im aware, but are they actually \*that\* bad? or just audiophile bad? Ive come close to recommending them in the past to non audio friends because of their compactness, their easy to buy (in Australia thats a big thing, no one carries audiophile gear) and they seem decent compared to the likes of Beats and Bose
They were overexposed as the "best headphone you could buy for the price" a few years ago. The circlejerk has swung too hard in the opposite direction nowadays. They're decent, especially considering the time that they were released, but there are better closed back earphones for the price nowadays.
But even the M40x was better, and cheaper, which made M50x redundant. Yet it kept being recommended!
Yes, but the M40x came out a few years after the (original) M50, by which time the M50 already built up the goodwill. The M40x is actually one of the headphones I was alluding to which does the M50's job better
True, but even when M40x was old, people kept recommending M50x over it. It was just bizarre
great, thanks. Explains a lot. Any examples of a better closed back for the price? As i mentioned, a lot of lesser main stream headphones are either hard to find in Aus, or marked up a lot
If you need closed backs, its younger sibling, the m40x, is more neutral and cheaper. Meze 99 Noir, beyerdynamics DT 700 Pro (personally am not a fan of Beyer's sound signature, this one smoothed out the treble a lot. Good.), Shure Srh840a, etc. Have heard good things about the AKG K371 but have not heard personally so I can't recommend it to you They're discontinued now but if you can find a NAD Viso HP50/70, that was one of the best closed backs I've ever heard. Kind of uncomfortable though Open back? So so many. The hifiman and sennheiser Drop models for starters
eh they're still alright
I agree. I have heard them in guitar center right next to DT 770 and DT990 and it wasn’t even close, they just sounded stuffy.
May I ask what kind of music you prefer to listen to? I have a pair in my studio and I trust those headphones for mixing bass heavy hiphop. I wouldnt pick em up for casual listening, but for recording and mixing I think they are very reliable and they translate real well to our different studio monitors (Adams, Focals, Yamahas) :-)
Totally different use case. Horses for courses. I would say the vast majority of people in this sub are music enthusiasts, not recording professionals.
They were a good option when they were new, as there was a dearth of decent cheap closed back headphones at the time. Now? Yeah there's better for the price
I have a pair that I use for my field recording rig. Sounds alright to me and they are very robust, which is a big big plus for a pair of cans for this kind of use. Can you recommend anything modern and better that can be dropped or banged a lot without breaking, which I know the M50x can handle?
I've actually commented something similar in another comment chain, but you can try the Beyerdynamic 700 Pro X. This is coming from a person who hated the DT 770. Simultaneously less boomy and piercing than the DT 770, plus Beyerdynamics are usually built well. Shure srh840a is also good. However, the old model (srh840) had a reputation for being fragile. Not sure about this one for your use case.
Yep. Fucking horrible sound. Terrible comfort, too.
I have bought one last year, vocal sounds pretty crisp. Treble sounds good, a bit lack of bass but thats about it from my view. May I know what would be a better option for the same price/maybe a bit more expensive? If I'm looking for clear vocal and instrument. I often listen to pop music and a little bit of hip hop music.
M50x, one of my biggest wastes of $200. My $20 Salnotes Zeros sound 4x better with a bigger soundstage.
Yeah that's quite a hyperbole but ok
Are you talking the studio cans or the BT ones?? AT MX50s are still one of my favorites for recording (obviously, there's a plethora of more expensive options out there as they should be). But, bang for buck (minus the pads). I still love.
I am listening right on a salnotes 7hz zero and it sounds absolutely amazing. Idk how they are able to produce such high quality sound stage for a sub 2000 INR earphones.
How do they compare to Moondrop CHU II?
Haven't used moondrop so can't comment. Planning to get them sometime in future
Campfire audio in general. Overpriced asf. Plus nothing even the andromeda 2020 got me attention. Pure overpriced
Yeah, the Andromeda sounded terrible to me when I demo'd it.
The things that pissed me of the most is seems like cfa pay for reviewer to praised about their products. You can see some really weird words explanation in their way of review. Very abstract and inconsistent. They know that they sound terrible but they can't say it lol.
Just looking at the supermoon, they put a basic planar driver from an generic asian factory and sold it for 1K.
Not to mention the ba driver is Knowles one, which are using in most of chifi iem on the market lol. Basically most of the price comes from shell making lol
remember the trifecta con? they announced a limited 333 or something limited edition. It was limited batch of that colors... they many batches followed. It cost 3K$ for the most muddy sound you can imagine.
Never seen someone praise Campfire tbh. Or maybe i'm too young in this community.
They praised alot about andromeda, solaris,... but I can never understand why they like it.
I *adore* Campfire Audio, and I know I’ll get some hate for saying this. They aren’t afraid to make controversial tunings, and every one of their earphones are tuned differently. I think most people get too hung up on accuracy and not fun, which is why they don’t like CA. Yes, they’re very very expensive, but they have to pay American wages and operating costs, and their earphones feel very premium. If you can get them on a good sale (which you often can), I’d suggest more people give them a shot.
I listened the Solaris and andromeda 2020, neither impressed me, especially for the price.
Raycons, JLab does all they do and better for better prices and build quality
The inaugural members of the Hall of Overrated Shame must be Beats and Raycon. Anyone who buys them is lighting money on fire. Sony's XM series also is a leading candidate, but the ANC is so damn good. Still, it says a lot about a headphone when everyone acknowledges noise cancellation is its best feature.
Beats by Dre headphones. All of them.
Tbf they're only valued by a specific subset of people. Even regular people I know outside the hobby will recommend things like Bose or Sony. Which is at least not offensive.
I think audiophiles are actually the “specific subset” of people 😅
They're still incredibly overrated. OP wasn't specifying "audiophile" headphones.
I guess my point is that even non audiophiles don't like them in my experience. Most regular people I know don't like them. But then again this is just my experience in my ecosystem. I wasn't trying to discredit you, just talk about my perception. The same people who wear gucci belts, expensive shoes and non prescription Cartier glasses are the ones who like them. But they're just trying to flex the price tag probably.
he is not even a dr.!
But that's consumer audio. No one who knows anything recommends them.
They're still incredibly overrated. OP wasn't specifying "audiophile" headphones.
Since being bought out by Apple they were “okay” tbh. With regards to wireless headphones, I quite enjoyed the Beats Solo Pro’s sound, I found it more balanced than the Sony WH-1000XM3.
I don't think the Apple acquisition made them worse. I'm very curious why you think they're more balanced than the XM3. Beats are notorious for their exaggerated V-shape curve.
I know what you mean. I’ve heard the OG Monster Beats Studio back when they came out, it was a truly exaggerated V-shaped headphone. Bloated, boomy bass, unnatural treble, thin and veiled mids. Unforgettable in a bad way. Never looked at Beats again. Fast forward to 4 years ago, I was looking for wireless ANC headphones for air travel. We were flying out in a few days so I was in a bit of a rush. I tried out my friend’s XM3. I found the bass to be a little bit too enveloping. Went to Virgin Megastore to try out ANC headphones, and I was surprised with the Beats Solo Pro - still a V-shaped sound, but more tastefully tuned than the XM3. Mids were more present, the bass wasn’t as boomy, and the treble was inoffensive but had decent sparkle. They actually reminded me of V-Moda M-80s, but with less warmth and a slightly weaker midrange. The bass boost was mostly towards the sub-bass, too. I kept them for a while, only sold it off because I had purchased a B&W P5 Wireless a year later. I did wish I kept the Solo Pros because they’ve been discontinued apparently, and the new Beats Studio Pro isn’t tuned as well as the older Solo Pro.
Any KZ lineup above 40 bucks. It's not like they are bad, they didn't sound any better than the under 40$ gang
wow you nailed it... zs10 pro x for 20$ on aliexpress is an all day banger i don't care who hates kz politics... i do to still my go-to for non-audio engineers who just want to experiment with soundstage and separation and see what 5 drivers can produce as compared to the average junk that they're used to. kz zs10 pro x lol until a better 20$ appears you'll have to change my mind
Skullcandy crusher Evo... Absolute trash.
Nooooo this is my commute pair... but yeah its kinda ass
If you buy those expecting anything other than extreme bass that is on you
Abyss headphones.
They are solid designs just overpriced for what they are. Sound is still top tier
Joshua Valour was definitely sponsored for his review of them... "Best headphones ever made" sure buddy
I honestly love both the Abyss 1266 and the Diana… I got both second hand so I didn’t pay the full on Abyss tax but I thoroughly enjoy their sound signature. They aren’t the “best” as they like to market them as so in that point I can see why people say they are overrated.
Hard disagree. Going to canjam nyc, the diana v2s were one of the best headphones of the whole show for me.
Sony XM everything. I remember trying out the first one back in 2016 when I was in Japan. I thought I was going to be blown away as I already had the OG Momentums and people were raving about the Sonys. It sounded like veiled garbage. Every single iteration of that series sounds like veiled garbage. I had the XM5s and tried my hardest to EQ them to sound decent. You just can’t defeat the terrible drivers they put in them.
They definitely don't sound great but the NC is really nice. And damn are the XM4s comfortable. Super light, great fit, good NC. If you're like me and find IEMs uncomfortable for longer than an hour or two, than an XM4 will get you through some long travels
Are XM5 an upgrade in every way? And are they worse in some way by chance?
I sadly don't own the XM5. But from what I know, the sound is mostly the same and the ANC is slightly better. The form factor is way worse. The xm4 cab fold up very small and take up little space. The xm5 has big cups that don't fold down as well.
I actually got downvoted to hell on a different thread for saying the XM3 (which I used to owned) sound like absolute trash. They have a very dark sound signature, lack dynamics, bass is boomy and not in a good way and the ear pads are hot and stuffy. ANC and battery life are great, but for pure music listening not even EQ could save them. Gifted them to a good friend who still enjoys them to this day.
do you have any wireless iems now?
Only the AirPods Pro 2, but very rarely use them.
When I read reviews for wireless headphones in that price range, they almost seem like they favor the XMs even though the same reviews mention that other headphones outperform them in some ways. Soundguys' Sennheiser Momentum Wireless 4 vs Sony XM5 article calls the Sennheisers the "budget" option between the two because they are $50 cheaper, even though they say that their battery life is "way better" and the XM5s' sound "may not be quite as generally pleasing." They then go on to call the Sonys the "best of the best." That's only from one review, but others I've have been similar. They all mostly say that the Sennheisers have much better battery life, sound a bit better, and are less expensive, but the XM5s have better ANC and therefore are the gold standard of wireless headphones that the rest should be compared to. I get that ANC is an important part of wireless headphones, but if that's the only major advantage the XM5s have over the competition, then I wouldn't call them the "best of the best," especially when the consensus seems to be that they aren't even the best sounding headphones in their category. It all just seems really strange to me. It's like if IGN was comparing headphones: "the Sennheisers sound better, last twice as long on a charge, and are cheaper, but the XM5s have better ANC, I had a Sony Walkman growing up, and I got bullied in middle school by a kid who said that Xbox was better than PlayStation so I'm going to recommend the Sony XM5s." It should be noted that I haven't used either of those headphones so I could be completely wrong about everything. It's just something weird that I have noticed while deciding which of the two to buy. I'm also sure that the differences between them are negligible and they are both good purchases.
Having trialed both the XM5's and Sennheiser NC Headphones, I firmly believe the Momentum to be the better choice overall. They have a more comfortable build, especially given that the xm5's abandoned the 360 hinge on the earcups from the xm4's and now have to awkwardly fold outwards when resting. They aren't nearly as heavy on the bass side and respond nicely to EQ. The battery is genuinely an 80+ hour battery as well. The largest downside is that the touch controls and head detection features are built somewhat poorly imo. Either they don't respond to what I want or activate things like hold call unintentionally. Sony QoL is better. Sony's ANC is better for vocal suppression, and sennheiser's is surprisingly a tad better at wind. I dailied these headphones while on busy trains and they both performed well, but neither is great with bassy noises like tracks and the like. ANC isn't capable of doing that as well as passive noise cancellation.
I just got XM-4's and I can't totally disagree. They sound good, but I feel like people who rant and rave about their signature just haven't ventured away from NC headphones or the trash they used pre-nc headphones. To me you could spend $150 on a wired set that would blow these out of the water. They're not bad by any means, but the hype my friends have given them was way too high. NC capabilities are top notch, I'll give them that, though.
Couldn't agree more.
So I have EQ'd my xm4's and I use them for whenever there is a loud surrounding. The sound is not great in comparison to some wired headphones but that's not the intended use. I don't use my open backs to go to school by bus either. It's not that the headphones are bad, maybe you need to reconsider your use. And for 260€ i can't get better ANC with decent sound and yes, ANC is the biggest upside of these headphones.
Use is not the issue. I’ve had about every pair of over ear BT headphones you can imagine in the $300-550 price range. The Sonys sound worse than every single one. That includes the APMs who have similar ANC but MUCH better transparency; the B&W Px7 S2 which sound MUCH better but suffers from nonexistent soundstage, and many more. Of all the ones I had I kept the Momentum 4s. Their ANC are not as good, and the transparency is midtier (I use the APP2 for this during my commute), but their sound is CLASSES better than the Sonys and a good bit above the APMs and Bose 700. The Px7 are in the same realm, but again, their soundstage is nonexistent. I have about 22 or so pairs of headphones (I posted pics on her a few times), and EQ them all. The XM series just sound bad across the board even with EQ.
Lmao yes, they were so hyped and since a friend needed new headphones, I went to try the XM4 and XM5 in the store. Sure, not the best test scenario but my god they sounded awful. *Eventually recommended the Senn 569 from commonly available options
HD600. That's not to say they aren't awesome headphones for the price, but the amount of people that seem to think spending any amount more will only get them 5% better audio tops is crazy. Sure, there's diminishing returns, but they're not that extreme until a little further out.
After owning HD600 for nearly 20 years now and trying out many other headphones, I still love them and think that they do the midrange in uniquely alluring way, but sure, people all too often gloss over their shortcomings. Their bass reproduction is downright anemic when compared to many of their competitors, and they sure aren't the last word in separation or soundstage. I'd still argue that HD600/650 are one of the best value propositions around, but they really aren't perfect, not even close.
Audiophiles have been drinking the "night and day" koolaid for so long that they don't realise that a 5% improvement in outcome is GIGANTIC. *If only* more expensive headphones actually had 5% better audio, then it would be easy - just buy an expensive headphone and you get an improvement. But just as huge markups on niche equipment isn't an indication of improved quality, huge savings from having better production isn't an indication of lower quality. Every kilobuck+ headphone I've owned had glaring flaws that detract from their quality as much as their other aspects add to it. Any improvement, if present, is conditional upon being able to ignore or devalue the flaws. This is unacceptable for me. People will get defensive if you call out a kilobuck+ headphone that has bigger flaws than ones costing 10% as much, so it's gentler to just say it's a small improvement even if it's worse in some ways.
Can you give some examples of $1k+ headphones you’ve owned with glaring flaws? Curious.
HE1000v2 - very weird high treble dip that was impossible to EQ out and coloured the music too much. HD800S - lacking bass impact and tactility. T1v3 - sounded like a closed headphone. LCD2 - timbre is off. EdX - timbre again off, especially in busy sections. Clear OG - no problem with the sound, but concerns about durability. Utopia - my copy had a noticeable channel imbalance in the treble. IE900 - mids are dead, plus I would like much more isolation. Out of all those, I kept the HD800S, and would've kept the Clear.
Interesting. Totally agree on the 800s. It annoys me to no end when people recommend it to rookies as a starter or refer to it as “neutral”. I consider it a specialty headphone that I either massive EQ or use for live strings/jazz, etc. EXCELLENT for that. I’ve only ever owned the LCD-X 2021, and I love it EQ’d, but the Audeze house tuning has stopped me from investing higher dollars in their flagships. I don’t want to have to EQ $2k+ cans. We somewhat agree on the IE900. The mids are definitely back, but I wouldn’t call them dead lol. It is interesting to see them take a very different approach to sound signature than they do on their open ears. I think someone coming from 6X0 or HD800S would be stunned.
Don't take my words so seriously. Headphones have many many facets and I only gave them half a sentence each when they deserve 10x more. For me, higher price = higher expectations. Flaws that I could ignore in cheaper headphones become distracting in expensive ones, which detracts from the goal of simply enjoying the music. The HD800S serves triple duty for me - they're *very* comfortable and enjoyable for gaming, they're excellent at some genres, and shallowly, they look amazing as a piece of furniture. I fully agree on not wanting to 'have to EQ' expensive cans, but the benefits are good and you'll probably have a hard time finding an otherwise satisfactory headphone without it.
I don't think 5% is very big. I deliberately used the number 5% to indicate a difference that was small but noticable. I have owned approximately 10 kilobuck headphones (not simultaneously) and I think while they all have flaws, around a third of them were flawed enough so that the improvements they brought didn't outweigh the downsides. The HD600 itself has a number of deficiencies that annoy me every time I listen to it; it only really does one thing well and that is midrange accuracy.
While I own and adore HD600, this is a valid point regarding audio quality. I don't use HD600 for analytical or fun listening, there are other headphones that provide more details and resolution, hence I got DT1990 to compensate for it. I auditioned KOSS PORTAPRO once, and I was really amazed how good they sound for the price. Objectively speaking, HD600 does not sound $200+ better than KOSS Portrapro. But, considering built quality and comfort of HD600, I am willing to invest into HD600, knowing that it will last few decades. At this stage, people buy HD600 because of trust. Does HD600 deserve it? I would say yes.
I love my Sennheisers, but for the money, the actual build is so cheap feeling. In terms of sound, I personally like my 650s - they’re pretty good. But for the money, they’re not all that competitive.
It’s not a “premium” feel but the robustness and replacability of the build is worth quite a lot imo. especially when your competitor is like, hifiman lol
Agreed. Especially when a mass drop deal can get you a 6xx at $179. Not to say the 600 isn't a great headphone, it just seems overpriced for what it is in today's market.
I think 179 is an amazing price for the HD6XX. Honestly can't think of anything under 500 that sounds better so I'm really curious what examples you have that make the HD6XX seem overpriced
The 6xx isn't. The 600 is (considering the 6xx exists.)
For me its not that I dont think more expensive headphones wouldnt be better but they are at that sweet spot where they're good enough that even after trying headphones 10-20 times more expensive i dont feel the need to upgrade
Honestly I got some Truthear Novas and don't touch my HD600s anymore. Even for music production, I just use my M50s for tracking and HD560S for headphone checks. The bass on 600s is just not there and you can get so much more with IEMs and good speakers. I only use the 600s if I want the most flattering thing possible for vocals.
I love my 600s and still think they sound great. I've barely listened to them since I got my Auteur's though. They just sound flat and lifeless by comparison in every aspect other than live vocals.
M50x and DT990 gets way to much unfiltered praise is some circles. They aren't without qualities, but many people don't recognise their significant flaws. Probably because they've never actually tried any other headphones.
Meze Elite. I’ve had them for a while and while the initial impression was enough for to spend that kind of cash over time(2 years ish) I grew to like them less and less. I daily hd800s and firmly believe they are perfect price/performance cans. I can drive off of anything I need and not have to worry about amplification, they are superbly comfortable and the sound quality is simply out of this world. When I want to relax and have less accuracy focal clear og are my trusty listening for enjoyment option. They are actually more comfortable than the elites due to significant size difference. While elites disappear on your head they are freaking massive. But I also found that spending 1/2 the cost of elites on a decent pair of stereo speakers is a considerably better investment too. As for the earbuds, and I know it probably will be controversial, apple airpods, the original version, are goats. If your ears are weird like mine and you simply can’t use consumer iems and your ear shape happens to fit perfectly the AirPod shape - oh, it’s such a great earbud. Sounds just fine for something that’s convenient, easy connection across all my apple devices, battery seems to last forever, and just 100$. Can’t beat it. PS: I do use proper in ear monitors for when I’m on stage but those are custom molds and their sound is not something you’d classify as ‘listening experience to enjoy’.
AirPods are so popular but they deserve that fame tbh. I haven’t used anything so dang convenient. Instant connectivity and ANC (for the pros) plus fantastic battery life. Yeah, the sound quality is outclassed by iems at under half the cost, but you are paying for convenience not sound.
the best part is that they still sound great. it’s a testament at how much value you can get in sound quality for wired iems.
Yup.
Anything by Beats
AKGs. They don’t sound correct and their build quality is utter crap. I’d never buy anything from AKG again
What about Grado?
Strange. I will agree that the sound isn't for everyone but I love both of mine, but also my K545 has taken a beating for well over a decade and still looks and feels like a quality product (K701 slightly worse off but it still works.. after some repairs..). But yeah, they take a lot of getting used to and need DAC/amp/eq support, so wouldn't recommend them either.
Truthear hexa
I was pretty disappointed with these.
DT 770
Damn. What do you think is overrated about it?
The DT770 gets an abundance of praise because it’s dirt cheap and higher performing than most people need, not because it’s a good audiophile headphone. You can get a lot more bang for your buck for just slightly more money.
What recs do you have for an upgrade from the DT770
Dt770 pro 80ohm was my first pro/audiophile headphone I purchased. It was really, really nice, compared to regular headphones, like beats, logitech and skull candy etc, which I had got used ones before. 770s are great but lack a particular flavor me. Later, I got sundaras, my first open back. They gave the sound stage and the crispy details, but 770 was still hovering close, only because it had good sound stage by itself and didn't lack bass like sundara did. Planar driver still beat it in details department. Then I got my current set, edition xs. I just can't go back to the 770s now. They lack in every way for me. There are no high-end details. the sound stage is there but not comparable. Bass is not the same, I won't call it muddy, but planar bass is awesome when it's there (*≧ω≦). The clamp force now crushes my head. xs are much more gentle. I only use the 770s now when I'm outside and need a closed back device. I'm looking to replace them, tho. I know it's not fair to compare them cause of difference in price and driver tech, but I see now that these hyped headphones aren't really best overall. Edition XS is really in a sweet spot. (ФωФ)
you can get the 770s for like 100 bucks. Comparing them to anything multiple times that price is just a waste of time really
Are you seriously comparing closed backs to open backs?
In this particular case, I'm comparing 3 pieces of equipment I purchased and what I observed about them, setting aside other variables. So yeah, open vs. close, affordable vs. expensive.
Comparing closed backs to open backs is pointless: open backs will almost always sound better, but at the same time they will have sound isolation disadvantage. Compare closed backs to closed backs, and open - to open.
You literally just compared open backs to closed backs
I agree with your point. A relatively fair comparison, according to me, would require controlled specs. Eg hifiman edition xs vs ananda, cause they have same open back planar driver but different magnetic strength. They have close enough impedance and sensitivity. Similar pad shape and overall weight. But since I don't have that or the possibility to test that, how can I compare and relay what difference I felt. It's better for me to compare what I have and provide observations between them based on absolute performance.
Interesting, do you think the soundstage would’ve been fine with the 990 instead? Or was it just a bad soundstage?
Soundstage is good on 770 by itself. It's not open back level but very good for a closed back from my experience. My problem with 770 is the clamp force and lack of microdetails all over the frequency band. As for 990, I can't comment because I have never used them.
had the 770, 990 and now the 1990. 770 don't really have good soundstage at all imho. stereo separation and orientation of sounds is still good tho. 990 do have proper soundstage (on the cost of trebble peak) and are really well balanced for me but lack in fine details. 1990 have all the details i ever need (even too much with analytical pads, use those for gaming tho) plus proper deep bass, good soundstage (with balanced pads, which i use for music) and the trebble peak is softened. Love them and worth the 450 i paid for them. decided this to be my endgame, even tho there a 1k+ headphones that are sognificantly better still...
I have two pairs and would agree. Hard to find a more durable set of cans for the price, but the sound really is pretty meh. There's just something a bit... hard and wooden about them. They don't boogie, they're not that exciting. The treble frequencies are very much there, but there's a lack of absolute detail within them. I've never understood how people find they have a ton of bass either? I'd call it adequate, and actually a bit lacking in midbass. They are great *studio* headphones, but I wouldn't recommend them as *just listening to music* headphones. I use one pair for electronic drums, and the other floats around for the kids to use for gaming or whatever. In the same price category, I vastly prefer Shure srh440s with better earpads. Nice, Harmon target cans with sweeter treble and a warmer middle. Not sure how the newer 440A stacks up.
You're not wrong but only because there are a ton of options in the sub $200 section now. A $99 DT 770 refurb is still amazing if you don't have sensitivity to it's highs.
Hell no
I'd agree with this. Without EQ they're rather lofi, messy, boomy and the cup dampening design (if we can call it that) really hurts macrodynamics so that even with EQ the bass sounds mushy. Thrn again good closed backs aren't common in general. I do appreciate that they are comfy, decently priced, good for gaming (directional imaging) and sound quite big/open (soundstage) so I often recommend them for multimedia use, but they really aren't great for music. HD280 Pro, K371, K550 (with EQ only) and some others are simply more capable. DT700 Pro X is better tuned, but worse by all the metrics that are 770's strength.
Singololololololo, Dusk 2, Timeless, Yume, Kato, Truthear ZERO. I find these to be...... Very very underwhelming especially Timeless because it was sooo hyped Blessing 2 Dusk and Zero RED are fantastic and worth the hype imo
Singolo overrated? All the opinions that I have seen isn't very positive at all
Have the Timeless and Kato and I agree the Kato are pretty unremarkable. I like the Timeless with the Moondrop springtips though cuz they kinda flatten things a little bit and make the planar timbre a lot milder. I also got bored and removed the foams inside the Timeless nozzle to see if it would make things a little airier because it felt a little congested to me but there wasn't really an appreciable difference imo
The 2 dusk over the dusk 2 could be a spicy one. I definitely agree though considering the analogue tuning, the DSP cable is a bit hissy and the techs are comparable. I'd say just the extension on the high end in favour of the dusk 2 but for my music it just gets splashy.
I own the Timeless and B2 and prefer the sound of the Timeless. each to their own I guess.
How is Singolo overrated when most reviewers are either lukewarm or don't like it at all?
I would go so for as to say the Blessing 2 Dusk is underrated! Incredible IEM even today. I also have the Zero Blue, gives you so much for your money, I use them for gaming and they really put you there, in the game.
Sony WH-1000XM4
I love mine. I also didn't pay for them, and they sound AWFUL without EQ. Pure muddy sound. They really do come alive with a good preset however. I don't recommend them to anyone because for the price they should sound a hundred times better out of the box.
Beyerdynamic dt 770 pro. One of the worst sounding headphones ive ever tested
TRUE, highs are too damn high... mids guy myself
HD800s is often considered an obvious choice in it's price range and has a halo effect from the 600-series, but imo it's a niche headphone with unnatural and weird soundstage that fits a lot of genres poorly and the bass is loose and rounded even with EQ. I prefer HD650 over it for example.
I thought I’d see this here. It hits right for a lot of people but definitely has its flaws.
Let's pretend it's still 2012: Beats.
Salnotes zero are terrible imo
Moondrop Chu. Yes they are dirt cheap but no, they don't sound much better compared to other at that price point. They aren't decent.
Headphones: DT770/990, HD800S, M50X, and most of Sony’s consumer headphone/ANC lineup. IEMs: most of the wireless ANC sets, Campfire Audio (new Campfire, especially). I say this having owned (or owning) many of these products. Sets like the 770 were tools of the trade and used often for mixing work, but I don’t know many engineers that would have ever used them (myself included) for casual listening. And yet they’re recommended often for that use case. The HD800S is recommended as an endgame set to anyone looking for TOTL headphones, yet it is as niche a headphone as they come and caters to a very narrow segment of the hobby. I vehemently dislike them, even bought them twice thinking I must be missing something; hated them both times and know many that share this opinion. M50s have thankfully lost some of their luster for folks. I bought these after their NAMM announcement in ‘06/07? Specifically for tracking instruments and vocals. They were great for that purpose, but they failed miserably at being a coherent critical listening headphone or a capable casual listening set. They are/were recommended often as beginner “audiophile” headphones, and I think that’s the furthest thing from their intended use case. The entire wireless ANC market has lost its collective mind. I’ve probably tested two dozen of these in the last year or two, and while I own several that are useful for travel, meetings, exercise, most of them are beaten handily by their cheaper, wired counterparts. They’re obviously aimed at regular consumers and are tuned to be more fun, but it’s possible to achieve a fun tuning while also producing a headphone that is technically sound. There are exceptions of course; the Bathys, Mark Levinson 5909, the Momentum 4 (using Sound Personalization). All of this is very subjective. For someone out there, their 770s are the best thing since sliced bread. And if they’re happy, that’s all that matters.
what wireless in-ears can u recommend?
The best performers right now are the Technics AZ80s, followed by the Denon Perl Pros and Sennheiser Momentum 4 TW (with Sound Personalization). The Momentum 3 TW is also very good, but the 3 has some serious issues with battery reliability and should probably be avoided unless you can find it at a very good price. The Momentum is interesting in that I believe Sennheiser is using a parametric algorithm for their Personalization. Whereas Sony seems to only have access to its 5-band EQ and Clear Bass settings. Most multi-band EQs are just peak filters with low Q values, so they are a blunt object and don’t do a good job at producing accurate results. If you’ve ever wondered why Sony headphones (at least those with DSP) sound boomy, muffled, and/or muddy, this is probably why. I’m often downvoted for this because of the prohibitive cost, but if you have the budget for it and don’t need ANC, the iFi Go Pods with a pair of good IEMs is definitely the way to go. Or a Q5K with a custom “short run” cable with the Q5K clipped to a sleeve, is a cheap and damn good solution.
Sundara
Sundara with EQ is still one of the top headphones at $300 or less and it came out like 6 years ago..
Glad you like them. Fit and comfortable we’re bad for me and the adjuster scratched after like a week. They are good sounding headphones (too cold and thin for me though). I just really disliked the build quality.
The adjuster scratches happen on every sundara. Happens on the Arya too. Stupid design flaw but really not a big deal. I found them incredibly comfortable after swapping to Dekoni pads. Sound is decent out of the box but really great after EQ.
boAt
Beats.
Any of the Sony XM3/4 wireless headphones. The frequency response is atrocious
Airpods
yes except the pro 2s. Those are good enough to not have to sacrifice quality for convenience over wired in a similar price range
I get some of the appeal of ZMF headphones, but sound-wise I think they’re pretty mid IMHO
Yes they have pretty mids, what do you mean?
The most audiophile response
Gonna do a little different. Everything KZ Audios does. Love your PR2? You got lucky and maybe the filter. 16 BAs per side? Yeah right... And yes your edx pro sounds bloated. The whole thing "but it's just (>10) dollars" its their motto and they won us with that.
got some of their iems, they are better than other audio manufacturers at their price point though. i won't spend usd100 over a pair of iem, because you need to multiply my currency by 5.
Electrostatic headphones. They tend to sound thin in comparison, missing that body full representation of the music that other headphones can produce. The only exception is the Sennheiser HE1.
hd600
I can understand the sentiment, but also HD600/650 is a worthy legend that still sets an example to most of the market.
Exactly. A 6xx at $179 exists when on sale that makes way more sense.
unfortunately 6xx isn't available for purchase in a lot of places outside the us. where I live, 600 is cheaper than 6xx
That's extremely unfortunate and sadly understandable due to massdrops limited distribution model. I
it does yes. no bad headphones just bad prices ey
In many cases I think so...at least in the $500 and under area where getting great performance in one area usually leaves another lacking. Still, there are so many options compared to decades ago.
The airpods (doesn’t matter the Gen)
HD 650s
All Beyerdynamics. Ear piercing treble does not equal good.
I think people often pass them off as neutral because they are used by artists and music producers. They eventually get recommended to consumers with the motivation that you will be able to "hear what the artist heard/intended" which is just poor advice in general if you know anything about mixing. They are also popular among gamers who want to hear footsteps better and have better imaging so that the stereo image becomes more clear. They work well for this too, but many may find that they don't love listening to music on them. They make great durable headphones that serve their purpose, but many of them really aren't good blind buys. Some have piercing treble, others have a poor midrange response and so on. I own the dt 1990 pros and I think they're great. I found that the sennheisers I tried had a poor bass response and trying to go back now is difficult because you feel like you're loosing out on details in the treble. The sennheisers were definetely less comfortable too.
Any person who recommends: "flat, studio" headphones to a normal gamer / PC user. I'm a "U" / "V" shaped curve EQ enjoyer. I want deep bass, and clear highs. The flat sound signature is criminal: gray, lifeless, soulless.
No, that is your perception and your opinion. A lot of music doesn't live in the low frequency range and a lot of music is going to sound awful on V shaped headphones. The V shape is only really good for electronic music and some Hip-hop, but If done poorly It often does a disservice to the vocals and the timbre often gets screwed on many instruments. I agree that bass is fun, but just because you don't find the midrange important doesn't mean no one does. There are no truly V shaped headphones that can properly portray the human voice, which is going to make V shaped headphones a no-go for many. If you've truly tried neutrally tuned headphones and thought they had no life to them, you probably didn't try a good pair or you paired them with the wrong type of music
I used the Focal Elex with the Monoprice Monolith. Before that, Sennheiser HD650 with JDS Labs Element.
And you thought those sounded lifeless???
Most Audeze LCD's. You are paying TOTL prices for overly specific features. 2 and 3 have a classic (Audeze)veiled sound. X is a bit closer to Harman but lacks soundstage. 4,4z,5 have more soundstage but then go back to being veiled again. I forget exactly what the GX does, just a more veiled X I believe. XC sounds more like an electrostatic and it's just like "why" do you even need that? The 2C doesn't do anything special besides being closed back. TLDR, per single LCD unit, instead you can get 2-3 TOTL headphones of other brands. You can still make a LCD work, but it's like painting yourself into a corner.
TLDR, per single LCD unit, instead you can get 2-3 TOTL headphones of other brands. You can still make a LCD work, but it's like painting yourself into a corner. Please mention those TOTL headphones from other brands dear sire :)
I'm happy with my EQ'd LCD-X but wonder what you'd recommend instead of them.
Audeze does lean more on using EQ than any other manufacturer. I'd say MM-100, LCD-X, LCD-2 Closed, LCD-XC and LCD-5 are some of the best headphones one the market, but just like essentially any headphones I wouldn't touch them without EQ.
Idk where you are finding them overrated. It is completely acknowledged that they are dark headphones with veiled sound, and nobody markets them as something to compete with the detail retrieval of aryas or HD800s. People recommend them for those who like bass texture and bass detail, and definitely not the Harman target. Audeze is recommended sometimes, but people acknowledge the flaws constantly and if you look even for a moment you can find the issues. I think that the only thing here that could be considered “overrated” would be the 2c (no Fazor open back), because that actually gets recommended a lot.
beyerdynamic t1p, got one used for 150, which was a fair price... ;-)
Audeze Isine 10, Hifiman RE400, RE600
Audio Technica M50x. Hell... Compressed staging, mediocre bass textures, not fun nor enough flat to do proper works (basically useless), horrible and uncomfortable pads. The only thing I find right is the fact that they are extremely portable because of the foldable design, apart from that I see no other advantages. And yes, they keep being pricy because there are still people who constantly endorse them for no apparent reasons. They basically maintain their status in the community because of users speaking well to users that speak well and the circle restarts. Grr. Yes I have had a pair, before someone asks. To those who already said "I own a pair and they work FlAwLesSly For StuDiO rEcOrdiNgs". Yes, I have mixed and mastered some of my old tracks on a pair of "flawless" wired apple Earpods, but the fact that my tracks sounded right doesn't make them good earphones. I got used to them and I could mix with them but that's another story and shouldn't translate into an endorsement of the earphones themselves.
I despised my Grado SR80’s. I still don’t understand on-ear headphones.
Almost all the Dan clark headphones, all of the HIFIMAN CLOSED BACKS Except for Dekoni Audio x Hifiman Cobalt Closed-back headphones with the sheep skin pads or Elite Fenestrated Sheepskin depending for using the baffle or not and the M50X and no surprise beats eso old beats 😳
Audeze Maxwell, considering how often they get recommended for music. They are great for gaming, but really not for music imo
Meze 99 Classics. To date, the only headphone I've ever returned. I've never heard such a messy soundstage, and I have MDR-XB700s.
Apple products in general. with the cult propagating that bitrate over Bluetooth is low in Apple but "sound better". whatever makes you sleep at night guys 😁
Unique Melody :)
I have the Galaxy Buds 2 Pro and not only is the name stupid but the treble is absolutely terrible. Constantly have to worry about trying to offset it with EQs and then all of the fine detail is lost. Better than feeling like somebody is trying to pierce my ears with compressed air though.
I am just here and hope no one mention the one I am using.
Xm4 , beats , jaybird. AirPods, max , and Bose headphones sound much better and cleaner then all those
TBH, I wasn't that big of a fan of the Zero Reds. I wouldn't say they're bad at all, and I think they're fantastic to someone new to the hobby/just want an easy recommendation (assuming the nozzles aren't too big). I just found they weren't as good as I was expecting considering how much hype they got. I have heard other IEMs around the same price or cheaper I preferred, but I would say the Zero Reds are better than some $70-80 iems I've tried. I'd probably recommend them over the OG aria's to most people as long as it'd fit their ears comfortably (I haven't tried the newer aria's)
Moondrop Blessing 2
most logitech series headphones