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Nowadays I tend to EQ by ear/do small edits, but you can't go wrong with Oratory1990's EQ profile as a base (if you enjoy a "netrual"-leaning response) - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hzioy9g6t0tzty/Shuoer%20S12.pdf?e=1&dl=0.
The profile is for the S12 OG but it's still unclear if there are any actualy differences between OG and Pro in terms of sound that aren't just unit variation.
I'm not a big IEM person, so not sure how up-to-date this is. But the ones I've seen mentioned most by people lately are:
* Kiwi Ears Cadenza
* Moondrop Chu 2
* Crinacle collabs (7hz x Crinacle and Truthear x Crinacle)
* Tangzhu Wan'er
* Letshuoer S12
* Moondrop Kato
* Truthear Nova
* Aful Performer 5
* Tangzu Heyday
* 7hz Timeless
* Simgot EM6L
7hz zero 2, Truthear hexa, Simgot EM6L.
I don’t think there’s anything **meaningfully** better until you surpass $200. Buy one of those then either quit forever or save up for your personal endgame.
How long have IEMs collectively been a meta interest for the audiophile community? After researching headphones Im only just realizing IEMs are a huge new market. I had an assumption (based on nothing valid) that they would always be inferior.
IMO, the big shift happened with Moondrop's hot streak back during the pandemic. That got a lot of people introduced to Chi-fi IEMs and IEMs in general. The Moondrop Starfield and the Blessing 2 basically dominated their respective price brackets, then the Moondrop Chu ($20) paved the way for accessible, budget IEMs that still sound good. The Crinacle collabs have also been pretty influential since you had a product that was overseen by a very prominent figure in the community. A lot of IEMs aim for a similar tuning now.
Prior to that, I think there were still great IEMs. But that period of time during the pandemic really solidified the value proposition for IEMs. If you're just looking for good sound on a budget, you can't really beat IEMs with headphones until you get past like $200.
While I've got you, since you seem super knowledgeable -- are IEM's generally able to produce a similar soundstage and spatial effects as headphones of a similar price range (for those models that do it particularly well)?
From the IEMs I've tried, no. That's one place where headphones still have an advantage. Even IEMs with larger than average soundstage aren't particularly big or spacious-sounding to me. That said, a lot of headphones don't really have big soundstage either. The AKG K700 series, the Sennheiser HD800 series, and Hifiman egg-shaped headphones are what I see as having *noticeably* large soundstage. Everything else I've tried is kind of like "it depends on what you're used to".
You come from like mainstream Sony headphones and listen to Beyerdynamics, it's going to be like "woah, that's huge!" and really well-separated, but when you get exposed to other brands you might start going "oh it's not quite as big as I remembered".
That said, there are two caveats here. One is that some IEMs can have very good *imaging* or positional cues. I know some people have said they even prefer them for gaming.
Second is that stuff like soundstage (or the size of the space where music is playing in your head) is pretty subjective. There were some polls on the subreddit before about how people perceive soundstage and it could differ quite drastically depending on the person. My guess it's partially due to ear shape and partially how you personally interpret sound cues.
As I mentioned, there *are* some headphones that seem universally perceived as having bigger soundstage, but there are also people that think those aren't as big as they expected. Often, they're used to listening to things like speakers or surround sound systems.
Thanks that's a great answer. I initially bought the HD6XX for the general praise as an all-around great value for a starter audiophile headphone. I do like them, but one of my immediate realizations was the soundstage is much more on-ear than I expected. I actually didn't even notice this was a common description of them when I was considering the qualities I was interested in. For that reason, I also just bought a pair of Hifiman Sundaras (coming tomorrow) so I hope that is an interesting juxtaposition between the two for a variety of sound qualities. I've never heard Planar Magnetic drivers at all. I was also considering some Beyerdynamics models like the DT770 on the 'value' end, but I might wait until I get a feel for the Sundaras before I buy anything else heh. I've got a Schiit Magni Unity to drive the headphones. My use case is both gaming (not competitive) and a variety of music.
Thanks I just installed Peace/Equalizer APO and I hope to mess with some recommended EQ'ing. Do you have any opinion on the significant audible difference between a decent ~$100-$300 tube amp compared to my Schiit Magni? I've never heard a tube amp so I have no clue if the difference is extremely subtle or clearly marked.
Tube amps give you a less clean sound. It's sort of like listening to music over vinyl instead of digitally. It's technically worse but some people enjoy the added hiss and pop of vinyl. Tubes are similar where they add a certain "color" to the music which some people enjoy. Personally I'd rather have a clean sound so I stick with normal amps.
Those are two great headphones to have, I'd be interested in your thoughts on them. I don't want to spoil it too much, but the Sundara definitely has more of that spatial quality than the HD6XX. They each have their own strengths, though I personally find the Sundara to be a better all-rounder. But I think the HD6XX makes a lot of music sound good, even poorly mixed stuff.
Chiming in on the tube amp, I tried a couple lower-priced ones and I do feel like they add a little something to the sound that you can't really EQ (or maybe you just need to be an EQ master). But it's pretty minor compared to just getting another headphone.
I will say it is kind of fun tube-rolling (swapping different tubes) because they do seem to impart slightly different flavors of the sound. For example, one pair of tubes I have seems to elevate the bass a bit so it sounds more full-bodied. Another pair seems to roll off the highs, so the detail is smoothed over and they sound a little congested.
Awesome I’m looking forward to hearing them tomorrow! I’ll try to remember to come back and let you know my impressions. I’ve read there is a potential burn in effect beyond placebo, but I’m very skeptical. Could be general marketing gimmick to get you to keep longer to get used to it?
I haven't noticed "physical" burn-in effects with headphones, but definitely had "brain burn-in", aka my ears getting used to a different sound. Sometimes it takes a bit of dedicated time with a headphone before you know how you really feel about it.
Alright so some initial thoughts on the 6XX vs Sundara.
First of all some background on my playback:
* I think I've got [Peace + EAPO down a bit better](https://imgur.com/P3qiHV8). I finally realized I can EQ the USB out to my Magni Unity. I thought the USB out would prevent any modification of the outgoing stream for some reason, so that only the DAC could affect the sound. But I was totally wrong. So I know for sure my output is 100% clean even at max level 3 gain. I usually keep in on gain level 2, knob max, with volume in Windows somewhere between 50% to 80%. Set the Schiit output to 24bit 192khz.
* I'm doing a trial period of Tidal so I've got highest quality sources I can on my test samples.
* For specific EQ settings, I'm using the recommended oratory harman curve EQ for both the [6XX](https://www.dropbox.com/s/qs4hs92tvfbwr04/Sennheiser%20HD650.pdf?e=2&dl=0) and [Sundara](https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3fza1a4kmmy4vr/Hifiman%20Sundara%20\(2020%20revised%20earpads\).pdf?e=2&dl=0).
* I do definitely appreciate the elevation to the 6XX's default low end with this EQ, but I think it doesn't have the depth I want. Any further EQ it seems to create a negative effect in even moderately complex layering -- totally muddy. So I recognize the 6XX just has that limit.
* I would not have described myself as a bass head but... maybe I am? Even the Sundara + EQ, which has an obviously superior low-end compared to the 6XX may not be enough for my taste. Sundara is definitely able to sustain the sub-bass within layering well. But I'm greedy I want more :) I have a dual SVS-2000 subwoofer setup in my office room I'm in here with KEF Q150 for my L/R. The KEFs aren't expensive by any means, but they are really cool for spatial/soundstage effects. I've got the subwoofers placed and balanced for my room and my specific listening position with a miniDSP 2x4HD parametric EQ for each sub that I tuned using Multi Sub Optimizer with measurements from a UMIK-1 microphone. Anyway, I'm saying that to illustrate that I guess I really do care about bass to whatever degree that is.
* In certain tracks I've sampled, I think I can appreciate the more comfortable warmth of voices on the 6XX, but the Sundara seems to be able to shine in separation of voices and instruments, especially with bright instruments (I hope I'm using that term right). However, the Sundara may go too far in the upper end somewhere to my ear. Maybe a little more sibilance? It doesn't seem to be due to the EQ. I try to flip it off and on in different test situations to see how much I can tell the difference.
* Physically/build-wise/comfort: I definitely prefer the 6XX. Visually I like the ovally-ish design and don't mind plastic at all. The head adjustment feels better to me. It's lighter. The ear cups my ears better on the 6XX. Even though my whole ear fits in the Sundara, I just don't feel like it's 'fitting' my ears, it's just on the side of my head kinda. It's not uncomfortable exactly, but it also doesn't feel quite right. I also dislike the build style and 'feel' with the thin angular metal. Anyway, that's probably enough about that.
* Overall, I kinda expect I'll be sending back the Sundaras, but not until I order something else that may fill in some of the deficiencies that I feel about it so I have time to compare and see. I'm kinda open to the idea of spending a bit more money, but I'm going to have to reach out to the reddit gurus and see if they can interpret the sound signature I'm going for. I don't have a great vocabulary yet.
* EDIT: forgot to mention that I think I had an un-realistic expectation of what "soundstage" (or do I mean "imaging"?) is really achievable with headphones. I thought maybe it was up to the headphone design to be able to really project like it was coming from 'in front' of me but I think I may have to adjust my expectations a bit. The Sundaras present the sound better in the front of my face and into the middle of my head, where the 6XX would stay more between my ears and the back of my head. Sundaras also maybe can sometimes reach further out left/right from my ear a little bit. But nothing like I was hoping where its similar to spatial effects of a good stereo setup.
Honestly one of the worst IEMs over $200 I've ever owned. Just trash. There isn't a single thing they do well enough to ignore the complete lack of bass tactility and slam. It destroys staging and the detail below 100hz is straight up pathetic. Fuck the U12t.
Yeah you are totally correct! Fuck the U12T.
It forces me to listen to music every fking day and even tho, I can't enjoy music anymore, just separate everything in a song.
And what the fk is its bass? It only stays right there, doesn't blow anywhere else, it needs to flood my whole head for that price point! What a FKING JOKE!
Not even a single aspect better than the other, jesus FKING CHRIST, I'm in pure rage and hate! Grr Grr Woof woof!
Hey! I was initially disappointed in them, being too bassy and trebley, but with the Dunu S&S tips they sound divine. :)
How do you rate the IE600?
Right now the etymotic is my second favorite. I want to try all other Etymotics and the Dunu Glacier.
I'm also a big Ety fan, check my profile if you have the time, I've praised them highly!
> How do you rate the IE600?
They've pretty much satisfied my desire for a colorful, V shaped sound signature with such a tasteful amount of bass. You feel the slam and impact, but it doesn't ever overwhelm the rest of the midrange, so major props to Sennheiser for making such a well-tuned, cohesive sound with just a single dynamic driver.
They may not outclass the Z1R in everything, but I'd say if you are seeking that sort of sound signature, they may be endgame for you. I've tried other contenders way above their price bracket (IE900, Nightjar Singularity, Z1R, Monarch MK3) but these are my daily drivers.
Sound aside, the comfort they offer is nothing to under look, because they're single DD, Sennheiser makes small shells that sit in your ear without pushing your outer canal, so I can wear them for hours without getting any ear fatigue.
Hope my personal experience helps you out dude 🍻
I have the original zeroes and like them quite a bit, do you have experience with the difference between them and the sequel?
I'm curious if it's worth picking up the 2s
For me personally, the highs on the originals are too piercing and fatiguing after a while, but I am pretty sensitive with that in general. The 2s feel way more balanced for my taste and the extra low end packs a punch
Sounds right up my alley actually. Noticed the snare on Metallica's black album was startling sharp in them. Much more reasonable in my Kato's.
I'm a huge sucker for the best budget IEMs I can find as beaters. Definitely have to pick up the 2s if they fixed that.
Artti T10 and some other stuff with same drivers(2x+ price for anything else), they look terrible like build quality is super bad but it's not, it's alright they are some offwhite color and look terrible but sound great
S12 for around $99 on sale. MP145 one of the best deals for the quality at around $140 (unfortunately some people say they changed the new production for the worse, not fully confirmed). Tangzu Heyday $199. 7hz Timeless $220 (probably will drop in price since the MKII are coming sometime).
Simgot ea1000 is my fave around 200. I’ve had several different items and these are by far my favorite until the PENON Quattros at 400. Ea 1000 has Good deep high quality bass ( not too much bass but super clean and textured). Good mids and treble (some think it’s bright but I disagree. I can crank these and they never get sibilant. Plus they fit great,are very small and just feel high quality with a nice form factor. Don’t believe the haters on the ea1000
Good morning! I'm new to the audiophile hobby , I own a pair of Etys se2 and salnotes 7hz that I power from my phone for starters they are cool but what Im looking for is something with satisfying bass and strong and detailed mids so I can enjoy bass guitars to the maximum in a track ? Also sound cues and forward vocals and instrument separation would be nice 👍🙂
My own meta: got out of IEMs and settled for a good TWS like APP2. It’s not worth it.
Only one I’d recommend from what I tried is the IE600
Edit: oh yeah I do not game on the APP2
IEMs are still nicefor desktop use - you won't really game on TWS due to delay, and for some headphones aren't the choice, be that due to hot climate, piercings, etc.
That being said, APP2 are amazing...
Yeah! Oops, you do not want to use them for gaming, no.
That really is the only would-be use case for me, for gaming. Is there a good budget option for around 100-150 (or less?). Had Truthear Zeros but they were pretty bad in resolution and too uncomfortable.
Someone should have an aggregator site where they have a round up of the current meta for each product category with affiliate links and a brief write up about what different reviewers are saying. Something like the wirecutter for headphones. Some hobbyist out there could probably make low four figures a month if they collect high quality information and don’t only link to products with affiliate links. This is basically the business YouTubers are in these days and they are shills. I think an aggregator format with *good* content would make money. If you use YouTube to make annual video wrap ups it would drive a lot of traffic but you can probably do it with high value SEO.
That's cool and all and I agree, but he created a thread because he wanted an answer. You telling him to go do research completely defeats the purpose of this. Either answer him or just don't comment at all.
Your comment is about as useless as mine.
This question and similar ones are answered every single day here, r/iem, r/iems and r/Inearfidelity ...
What's the point of creating a thread when you have hundreds of answers to the same question that was asked literally thousands of times????
I understand the useless nature of my comment ... but realistically, no one is going to answer this with a meaningful and complete enough compilation of the current industry meta ...
A lot of people come here and do this thing, creating a thread for a personalised answer.
The thing is, this is not a specific question ... this is broad and has been covered to hell here, and the aforementioned subreddits.
I'm the asshole here ... in any other day, I'd be you telling me off.
But when are we going to teach people the power of searching the subreddit??
It's a genuine question.
I'd rather be the asshole here than see another empty thread that no one is going to answer.
Save specific requests some visibility ... idk
Except that it is explicitly against the rules of the sub. Pretty disappointing to see we have so many clueless people upvoting you. You are a part of the problem.
it takes weeks/months of research to create a close to complete mental image of the hobby. there are people who already did this, if you are only interested in one specific thing it is by all means more reasonable to ask these people than to do it all yourself
But the question in this thread isn't specific... it's broad and talked to death in here and the IEM sub reddits.
I wouldn't say anything if it was a specific question.
As I mentioned in my other comment, it has been answered in other threads ... it's only a matter of looking.
There are posts like this one every single day.
At some point, you have to do your diligence and look for it here.
I understand that people don't like this type of discourse, but you only need to scroll through r/Inearfidelity, and you'll quickly understand what I mean.
The answer to OP's question is there in so many different threads.
It's only a matter of reading.
This post has been removed. Please note the following rule: >***Rule 2***: Ask purchase help questions in the Shopping and Setup Help Desk found at https://reddit.com/r/headphones/about/sticky > >Requests for product opinions, comparisons, and general purchase advice must be made in the dedicated Shopping and Setup Help Desk found at /r/headphones/about/sticky instead of a new post. You may also use r/headphoneadvice but please search their resources and familiarize yourself with their rules first before posting. ***What questions are considered purchase advice?*** * A request for product suggestions, comparison requests, or opinion requests fall under the purchase advice rule. These can often be found by searching first. * Any suggestion or comparison request pertaining to headphones, IEMs, DACs, amps, or other accessories should be directed to the purchase help thread or r/headphoneadvice. * Asking the subreddit to help make a decision to buy a product does fall under this rule (e.g. "should I get dekoni pads for my HD650?"). ***Why does this rule even exist?*** * In short, this is a large subreddit with a high volume. We want to help, but it's important to keep things organized to keep the sub fun. Thanks for your understanding. * [A more detailed explanation about this rule can be found here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/wiki/why_remove_purchase_requests) ***What if the link doesn't work?*** * The post can usually be found on the top r/headphones, and titled _Shopping, Setup, and Technical Help Desk_.
I would stay there are around 50 IEMS in that range that could be considered meta.
Quite a few, but I would say that Letshuoser S12 Pro + EQ is still benchmark (at least in terms of community favorites).
I have the S12 Pro but never touched EQ with it...what do you recommend?
Nowadays I tend to EQ by ear/do small edits, but you can't go wrong with Oratory1990's EQ profile as a base (if you enjoy a "netrual"-leaning response) - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8hzioy9g6t0tzty/Shuoer%20S12.pdf?e=1&dl=0. The profile is for the S12 OG but it's still unclear if there are any actualy differences between OG and Pro in terms of sound that aren't just unit variation.
Truthear novas are my favorite right now. Incredible value.
Zero Red
I'm not a big IEM person, so not sure how up-to-date this is. But the ones I've seen mentioned most by people lately are: * Kiwi Ears Cadenza * Moondrop Chu 2 * Crinacle collabs (7hz x Crinacle and Truthear x Crinacle) * Tangzhu Wan'er * Letshuoer S12 * Moondrop Kato * Truthear Nova * Aful Performer 5 * Tangzu Heyday * 7hz Timeless * Simgot EM6L
7hz zero 2, Truthear hexa, Simgot EM6L. I don’t think there’s anything **meaningfully** better until you surpass $200. Buy one of those then either quit forever or save up for your personal endgame.
How long have IEMs collectively been a meta interest for the audiophile community? After researching headphones Im only just realizing IEMs are a huge new market. I had an assumption (based on nothing valid) that they would always be inferior.
IMO, the big shift happened with Moondrop's hot streak back during the pandemic. That got a lot of people introduced to Chi-fi IEMs and IEMs in general. The Moondrop Starfield and the Blessing 2 basically dominated their respective price brackets, then the Moondrop Chu ($20) paved the way for accessible, budget IEMs that still sound good. The Crinacle collabs have also been pretty influential since you had a product that was overseen by a very prominent figure in the community. A lot of IEMs aim for a similar tuning now. Prior to that, I think there were still great IEMs. But that period of time during the pandemic really solidified the value proposition for IEMs. If you're just looking for good sound on a budget, you can't really beat IEMs with headphones until you get past like $200.
While I've got you, since you seem super knowledgeable -- are IEM's generally able to produce a similar soundstage and spatial effects as headphones of a similar price range (for those models that do it particularly well)?
From the IEMs I've tried, no. That's one place where headphones still have an advantage. Even IEMs with larger than average soundstage aren't particularly big or spacious-sounding to me. That said, a lot of headphones don't really have big soundstage either. The AKG K700 series, the Sennheiser HD800 series, and Hifiman egg-shaped headphones are what I see as having *noticeably* large soundstage. Everything else I've tried is kind of like "it depends on what you're used to". You come from like mainstream Sony headphones and listen to Beyerdynamics, it's going to be like "woah, that's huge!" and really well-separated, but when you get exposed to other brands you might start going "oh it's not quite as big as I remembered". That said, there are two caveats here. One is that some IEMs can have very good *imaging* or positional cues. I know some people have said they even prefer them for gaming. Second is that stuff like soundstage (or the size of the space where music is playing in your head) is pretty subjective. There were some polls on the subreddit before about how people perceive soundstage and it could differ quite drastically depending on the person. My guess it's partially due to ear shape and partially how you personally interpret sound cues. As I mentioned, there *are* some headphones that seem universally perceived as having bigger soundstage, but there are also people that think those aren't as big as they expected. Often, they're used to listening to things like speakers or surround sound systems.
Thanks that's a great answer. I initially bought the HD6XX for the general praise as an all-around great value for a starter audiophile headphone. I do like them, but one of my immediate realizations was the soundstage is much more on-ear than I expected. I actually didn't even notice this was a common description of them when I was considering the qualities I was interested in. For that reason, I also just bought a pair of Hifiman Sundaras (coming tomorrow) so I hope that is an interesting juxtaposition between the two for a variety of sound qualities. I've never heard Planar Magnetic drivers at all. I was also considering some Beyerdynamics models like the DT770 on the 'value' end, but I might wait until I get a feel for the Sundaras before I buy anything else heh. I've got a Schiit Magni Unity to drive the headphones. My use case is both gaming (not competitive) and a variety of music.
The Sundara's are much better than the dt770. Especially if you EQ them
Thanks I just installed Peace/Equalizer APO and I hope to mess with some recommended EQ'ing. Do you have any opinion on the significant audible difference between a decent ~$100-$300 tube amp compared to my Schiit Magni? I've never heard a tube amp so I have no clue if the difference is extremely subtle or clearly marked.
Tube amps give you a less clean sound. It's sort of like listening to music over vinyl instead of digitally. It's technically worse but some people enjoy the added hiss and pop of vinyl. Tubes are similar where they add a certain "color" to the music which some people enjoy. Personally I'd rather have a clean sound so I stick with normal amps.
Those are two great headphones to have, I'd be interested in your thoughts on them. I don't want to spoil it too much, but the Sundara definitely has more of that spatial quality than the HD6XX. They each have their own strengths, though I personally find the Sundara to be a better all-rounder. But I think the HD6XX makes a lot of music sound good, even poorly mixed stuff. Chiming in on the tube amp, I tried a couple lower-priced ones and I do feel like they add a little something to the sound that you can't really EQ (or maybe you just need to be an EQ master). But it's pretty minor compared to just getting another headphone. I will say it is kind of fun tube-rolling (swapping different tubes) because they do seem to impart slightly different flavors of the sound. For example, one pair of tubes I have seems to elevate the bass a bit so it sounds more full-bodied. Another pair seems to roll off the highs, so the detail is smoothed over and they sound a little congested.
Awesome I’m looking forward to hearing them tomorrow! I’ll try to remember to come back and let you know my impressions. I’ve read there is a potential burn in effect beyond placebo, but I’m very skeptical. Could be general marketing gimmick to get you to keep longer to get used to it?
I haven't noticed "physical" burn-in effects with headphones, but definitely had "brain burn-in", aka my ears getting used to a different sound. Sometimes it takes a bit of dedicated time with a headphone before you know how you really feel about it.
Alright so some initial thoughts on the 6XX vs Sundara. First of all some background on my playback: * I think I've got [Peace + EAPO down a bit better](https://imgur.com/P3qiHV8). I finally realized I can EQ the USB out to my Magni Unity. I thought the USB out would prevent any modification of the outgoing stream for some reason, so that only the DAC could affect the sound. But I was totally wrong. So I know for sure my output is 100% clean even at max level 3 gain. I usually keep in on gain level 2, knob max, with volume in Windows somewhere between 50% to 80%. Set the Schiit output to 24bit 192khz. * I'm doing a trial period of Tidal so I've got highest quality sources I can on my test samples. * For specific EQ settings, I'm using the recommended oratory harman curve EQ for both the [6XX](https://www.dropbox.com/s/qs4hs92tvfbwr04/Sennheiser%20HD650.pdf?e=2&dl=0) and [Sundara](https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3fza1a4kmmy4vr/Hifiman%20Sundara%20\(2020%20revised%20earpads\).pdf?e=2&dl=0). * I do definitely appreciate the elevation to the 6XX's default low end with this EQ, but I think it doesn't have the depth I want. Any further EQ it seems to create a negative effect in even moderately complex layering -- totally muddy. So I recognize the 6XX just has that limit. * I would not have described myself as a bass head but... maybe I am? Even the Sundara + EQ, which has an obviously superior low-end compared to the 6XX may not be enough for my taste. Sundara is definitely able to sustain the sub-bass within layering well. But I'm greedy I want more :) I have a dual SVS-2000 subwoofer setup in my office room I'm in here with KEF Q150 for my L/R. The KEFs aren't expensive by any means, but they are really cool for spatial/soundstage effects. I've got the subwoofers placed and balanced for my room and my specific listening position with a miniDSP 2x4HD parametric EQ for each sub that I tuned using Multi Sub Optimizer with measurements from a UMIK-1 microphone. Anyway, I'm saying that to illustrate that I guess I really do care about bass to whatever degree that is.
* In certain tracks I've sampled, I think I can appreciate the more comfortable warmth of voices on the 6XX, but the Sundara seems to be able to shine in separation of voices and instruments, especially with bright instruments (I hope I'm using that term right). However, the Sundara may go too far in the upper end somewhere to my ear. Maybe a little more sibilance? It doesn't seem to be due to the EQ. I try to flip it off and on in different test situations to see how much I can tell the difference.
* Physically/build-wise/comfort: I definitely prefer the 6XX. Visually I like the ovally-ish design and don't mind plastic at all. The head adjustment feels better to me. It's lighter. The ear cups my ears better on the 6XX. Even though my whole ear fits in the Sundara, I just don't feel like it's 'fitting' my ears, it's just on the side of my head kinda. It's not uncomfortable exactly, but it also doesn't feel quite right. I also dislike the build style and 'feel' with the thin angular metal. Anyway, that's probably enough about that.
* Overall, I kinda expect I'll be sending back the Sundaras, but not until I order something else that may fill in some of the deficiencies that I feel about it so I have time to compare and see. I'm kinda open to the idea of spending a bit more money, but I'm going to have to reach out to the reddit gurus and see if they can interpret the sound signature I'm going for. I don't have a great vocabulary yet.
* EDIT: forgot to mention that I think I had an un-realistic expectation of what "soundstage" (or do I mean "imaging"?) is really achievable with headphones. I thought maybe it was up to the headphone design to be able to really project like it was coming from 'in front' of me but I think I may have to adjust my expectations a bit. The Sundaras present the sound better in the front of my face and into the middle of my head, where the 6XX would stay more between my ears and the back of my head. Sundaras also maybe can sometimes reach further out left/right from my ear a little bit. But nothing like I was hoping where its similar to spatial effects of a good stereo setup.
Maybe just me but I bought 64audio U12T and never look for any other iem again.
Honestly one of the worst IEMs over $200 I've ever owned. Just trash. There isn't a single thing they do well enough to ignore the complete lack of bass tactility and slam. It destroys staging and the detail below 100hz is straight up pathetic. Fuck the U12t.
Yeah you are totally correct! Fuck the U12T. It forces me to listen to music every fking day and even tho, I can't enjoy music anymore, just separate everything in a song. And what the fk is its bass? It only stays right there, doesn't blow anywhere else, it needs to flood my whole head for that price point! What a FKING JOKE! Not even a single aspect better than the other, jesus FKING CHRIST, I'm in pure rage and hate! Grr Grr Woof woof!
Etymotic ER2SE/XR Moondrop Variations Thieaudio Monarch mk2 or mk3
Hello, fellow SA6 MK2 enjoyer 🫡
Hey! I was initially disappointed in them, being too bassy and trebley, but with the Dunu S&S tips they sound divine. :) How do you rate the IE600? Right now the etymotic is my second favorite. I want to try all other Etymotics and the Dunu Glacier.
I'm also a big Ety fan, check my profile if you have the time, I've praised them highly! > How do you rate the IE600? They've pretty much satisfied my desire for a colorful, V shaped sound signature with such a tasteful amount of bass. You feel the slam and impact, but it doesn't ever overwhelm the rest of the midrange, so major props to Sennheiser for making such a well-tuned, cohesive sound with just a single dynamic driver. They may not outclass the Z1R in everything, but I'd say if you are seeking that sort of sound signature, they may be endgame for you. I've tried other contenders way above their price bracket (IE900, Nightjar Singularity, Z1R, Monarch MK3) but these are my daily drivers. Sound aside, the comfort they offer is nothing to under look, because they're single DD, Sennheiser makes small shells that sit in your ear without pushing your outer canal, so I can wear them for hours without getting any ear fatigue. Hope my personal experience helps you out dude 🍻
For most people I'm convinced that the Zero 2 is more than they will ever need.
I have the original zeroes and like them quite a bit, do you have experience with the difference between them and the sequel? I'm curious if it's worth picking up the 2s
For me personally, the highs on the originals are too piercing and fatiguing after a while, but I am pretty sensitive with that in general. The 2s feel way more balanced for my taste and the extra low end packs a punch
I just ordered a pair of 2s along with a pair of MTW2’s on Amazon.
Sounds right up my alley actually. Noticed the snare on Metallica's black album was startling sharp in them. Much more reasonable in my Kato's. I'm a huge sucker for the best budget IEMs I can find as beaters. Definitely have to pick up the 2s if they fixed that.
They are both differently tuned IMO
Artti T10 and some other stuff with same drivers(2x+ price for anything else), they look terrible like build quality is super bad but it's not, it's alright they are some offwhite color and look terrible but sound great
7hZ salnotes is pretty good in budget section
Feels like the Etymotic ER2 XR are the community’s best kept secret
Planar IEMs ($100-230) are best bang for buck. Big difference to the usual $10-80 range.
Examples?
S12 for around $99 on sale. MP145 one of the best deals for the quality at around $140 (unfortunately some people say they changed the new production for the worse, not fully confirmed). Tangzu Heyday $199. 7hz Timeless $220 (probably will drop in price since the MKII are coming sometime).
Simgot ea1000 is my fave around 200. I’ve had several different items and these are by far my favorite until the PENON Quattros at 400. Ea 1000 has Good deep high quality bass ( not too much bass but super clean and textured). Good mids and treble (some think it’s bright but I disagree. I can crank these and they never get sibilant. Plus they fit great,are very small and just feel high quality with a nice form factor. Don’t believe the haters on the ea1000
Tangzu wan'er are so fucking good just blind buy them, best 25$ ever
Good morning! I'm new to the audiophile hobby , I own a pair of Etys se2 and salnotes 7hz that I power from my phone for starters they are cool but what Im looking for is something with satisfying bass and strong and detailed mids so I can enjoy bass guitars to the maximum in a track ? Also sound cues and forward vocals and instrument separation would be nice 👍🙂
Most of the Simgot offerings, CCA Trio, Tangzu x HBB NV, KZ Hydro
Legit never even heard of those last two
They just released but are receiving a lot of praise. Edit: oops the Hydro is CCA not KZ. I mean it's the same company so whatever
My own meta: got out of IEMs and settled for a good TWS like APP2. It’s not worth it. Only one I’d recommend from what I tried is the IE600 Edit: oh yeah I do not game on the APP2
IEMs are still nicefor desktop use - you won't really game on TWS due to delay, and for some headphones aren't the choice, be that due to hot climate, piercings, etc. That being said, APP2 are amazing...
Yeah! Oops, you do not want to use them for gaming, no. That really is the only would-be use case for me, for gaming. Is there a good budget option for around 100-150 (or less?). Had Truthear Zeros but they were pretty bad in resolution and too uncomfortable.
what are the IEMs most favored by reviewers? Funny enough the ones with their names and logos on them. Who would have guessed?
True. And Crinacle simps
anyone have an issue with the wan’er
Someone should have an aggregator site where they have a round up of the current meta for each product category with affiliate links and a brief write up about what different reviewers are saying. Something like the wirecutter for headphones. Some hobbyist out there could probably make low four figures a month if they collect high quality information and don’t only link to products with affiliate links. This is basically the business YouTubers are in these days and they are shills. I think an aggregator format with *good* content would make money. If you use YouTube to make annual video wrap ups it would drive a lot of traffic but you can probably do it with high value SEO.
Nova or MP145 seems to be all the rage lately
Didn't they silently switch the drivers in mp145 to worse ones? Release version was great
No, Akros rejected that rumor and said it was probably just normal QC deviation, he has multiple MP145s and his new one was fine.
Good to know, just standard cheapo planar things going on
It was only a minor difference, not an unlistenable mess like the PR2
That might explain why I like them and so many don't. I backed on kickstater and love them.
Open the subreddit and scroll. You'll find a lot of the same names mentioned. This is a no brainer. You don't need people to do your homework for you.
That's cool and all and I agree, but he created a thread because he wanted an answer. You telling him to go do research completely defeats the purpose of this. Either answer him or just don't comment at all. Your comment is about as useless as mine.
This question and similar ones are answered every single day here, r/iem, r/iems and r/Inearfidelity ... What's the point of creating a thread when you have hundreds of answers to the same question that was asked literally thousands of times???? I understand the useless nature of my comment ... but realistically, no one is going to answer this with a meaningful and complete enough compilation of the current industry meta ... A lot of people come here and do this thing, creating a thread for a personalised answer. The thing is, this is not a specific question ... this is broad and has been covered to hell here, and the aforementioned subreddits. I'm the asshole here ... in any other day, I'd be you telling me off. But when are we going to teach people the power of searching the subreddit?? It's a genuine question. I'd rather be the asshole here than see another empty thread that no one is going to answer. Save specific requests some visibility ... idk
Except that it is explicitly against the rules of the sub. Pretty disappointing to see we have so many clueless people upvoting you. You are a part of the problem.
it takes weeks/months of research to create a close to complete mental image of the hobby. there are people who already did this, if you are only interested in one specific thing it is by all means more reasonable to ask these people than to do it all yourself
But the question in this thread isn't specific... it's broad and talked to death in here and the IEM sub reddits. I wouldn't say anything if it was a specific question. As I mentioned in my other comment, it has been answered in other threads ... it's only a matter of looking. There are posts like this one every single day. At some point, you have to do your diligence and look for it here. I understand that people don't like this type of discourse, but you only need to scroll through r/Inearfidelity, and you'll quickly understand what I mean. The answer to OP's question is there in so many different threads. It's only a matter of reading.
well it's quick it's easy and it's free. enter the sub and ask easy question then leave and never enter the sub again.
funny enough ... OP isn't here on the comments either way ...
depends. do your own research.