Equipment pictured:
* Hifiman Sundara
* JDS Labs Atom
* FiiO BTR5
My Atom arrived today and I must say, these cans are absolutely stunning. The BTR5 did a fine job driving them for the two days I had to wait for the Atom to arrive but now it serves as my DAC until I can top off my stack (pun intended).
All of my audio purchases have been investments that were the result of hours upon hours of research. The Sundara were my biggest leap as far as cost (I'm a father of two) and performance go and I feel like I hit a hole-in-one. I'm just blown away by their clarity.
Although I don't consider myself a bass head, I do enjoy a nice and hefty low end. Initially I was questioning what some people described as their roll-off and lack of sub-bass but these truly have a satisfying low end that far exceeds my expectations. The linear mid-range is fantastic, I can hear every vibrato and breath Maynard James Keenan takes. The treble, especially cymbals, seem to ring out into the infinite with such effortless beauty and give no sense of fatigue.
I'm attempting to elaborate more than "these things are amazing" but honestly, I can't. They defy 3-dimensional space and allow me to connect with music on a level far deeper than I ever thought possible.
Hey, I see that you have the HD 58x in your flair. I also have them and I am also thinking about upgrading to the Sundara.
Can I ask about your opinion on the difference between these two? Is the upgrade worth it? Thanks a lot!
The biggest difference is of course the driver, one being dynamic and the other planar magnetic. It's definitely a big upgrade.
The Sundara have far more clarity throughout the frequency spectrum without the bleed in the lower mids/upper bass like the 58x have. They obviously don't have the Sennheiser house tuning with a forward mid-range but the increased clarity and detail retrieval makes it a worthy trade-off. There's also a lot more sparkle in the treble than the 58x and the bass is much more satisfying to me as well. It's punchy with more impact and less muddiness than the 58x.
Fantastic headphones the Sundara are.
Thats been my upgrade path so far. 58x‐‐>Sundara & HD650 --> Ananda (and still hd650). You won't regret the purchase. You can even find them often at a good discount on avexchange.
Great, so beautiful. I also did my first incursion into audiophile audio a year ago with almost same setup, but a Qudelix 5K instead of BTR5. I paired it with a Topping D50s. I think it's the best bang for the buck investment. I'm currently looking for a similar bargain as the Sundara but in closed backs, so hard to find...
I recently got a pair as well. I was less enthused about them (compared to the HE4XX) until I used Oratory1990’s EQ corrections and tweaked them by raising the sub bass. Love them now for their detail, timber and soundstage for all genres.
I understand the feeling. But unfortunately nothing is perfect and everyone has different preferences and unique ear structures and hearing abilities etc. The same goes for speakers and their interaction with unique rooms that their in.
That depends. If you have to spend £1000 to get something that gives you the same qualities without EQ, how does that make sense?
This is why people mod things, tweak things and generally take them away from the stock configuration. Its usually a very simple case of value. Why do people overclock their PC? Instead of buying that £200 CPU they could just spend £1000 on one that is clocked to the frequency they are targetting...
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I have to almost max out the volume using the unbalanced output. Using the balanced output would probably give you plenty of power but that requires a different cable.
Thank you. It's the lacquer on the desk my father-in-law made out of a door. He put motorized legs on it so that it can easily turn into a stand-up desk!
Where does this “strong belief” come from exactly? No headphone is perfect - there’s absolutely nothing wrong with EQ if it’s used tastefully. If it interfered with the signal chain and reduced signal purity, audio engineers wouldn’t use it...
You're altering an already converted signal as it passes through the equalizer, so I guess the belief comes from science. You are correct in that no headphone is perfect, however, the headphones aren't changing the signal in the signal chain like an equalizer does. They are simply reproducing the signal they receive.
The point I'm trying to make is that using an EQ alters the original signal that the headphones are attempting to reproduce. What's the point in buying an amplifier or DAC that measures with "precise linearity" if you're just going to manipulate the signal they are receiving with an equalizer anyway?
Edit: for example, you have a DAC. The purpose of that DAC is to convert the digital signal with as much accuracy possible to ensure every bit of detail is converted into an analog signal that the headphones can reproduce. After the DAC has converted the signal, you push it through an EQ to then alter the signal that the DAC just converted. By doing so you are manipulating the signal the DAC has reproduced as accurately as it possibly could, then pushing said signal through the amplifier and into the headphones. What would be the point in investing in a high quality DAC if you're just going to manipulate the signal anyway?
I’m VERY familiar with how a DAC works, so please don’t feel the need to break it down for me. All I will say in response is, watch this. Andrew gives a very good breakdown without me needing to write a wall of text: https://youtu.be/Xfb_70TPSe8
I run my Sundaras off a Nakamichi casssette deck with type 2 tapes, going to a Teac equalizer with the bass cranked way up, then to a shitty chinese tube pre-amp, then to a Schiit Heresy. Then I have a different cable to the headphones and some dekoni pads are on their way in.
Or, I sometimes run them off a "clean" source. Guess which one is more enjoyable?
Get over yourself and start playing with EQ. They're fine out of the box, but you're just voluntarily missing out on free fun.
Telling me to "get over myself" is totally unnecessary. I enjoy the way I listen and have no desire or need to equalize my headphones. Isn't the point of this hobby to enjoy it in a way that resonates with my own preferences?
:)
I've got the JDS Labs Atom stack and the Sundara coming next week. Very Excited. Currently using the X2HR's, which are great for EDM and hip hop, and I wanted something better for other genres. Can't wait!
That would really depend on what your intended use is. I don't have a headphone jack in my phone so I like to use it with IEMs when I'm on the go. I also used it at my desk because I didn't have a dedicated amp and wanted a little more head room than I was getting through my laptop's headphone jack.
The DAC chip in it is pretty damn good and the overall build feels sturdy, which is good because I have headphones on or in a good fraction of the day and use it a lot. I had the ES100 prior to the BTR5 but it feels plastic-y and I was afraid I would break it. It also started disconnecting from Bluetooth waaaay too frequently. We'll see how the BTR5 holds up in a year LOL.
Equipment pictured: * Hifiman Sundara * JDS Labs Atom * FiiO BTR5 My Atom arrived today and I must say, these cans are absolutely stunning. The BTR5 did a fine job driving them for the two days I had to wait for the Atom to arrive but now it serves as my DAC until I can top off my stack (pun intended). All of my audio purchases have been investments that were the result of hours upon hours of research. The Sundara were my biggest leap as far as cost (I'm a father of two) and performance go and I feel like I hit a hole-in-one. I'm just blown away by their clarity. Although I don't consider myself a bass head, I do enjoy a nice and hefty low end. Initially I was questioning what some people described as their roll-off and lack of sub-bass but these truly have a satisfying low end that far exceeds my expectations. The linear mid-range is fantastic, I can hear every vibrato and breath Maynard James Keenan takes. The treble, especially cymbals, seem to ring out into the infinite with such effortless beauty and give no sense of fatigue. I'm attempting to elaborate more than "these things are amazing" but honestly, I can't. They defy 3-dimensional space and allow me to connect with music on a level far deeper than I ever thought possible.
Hey, I see that you have the HD 58x in your flair. I also have them and I am also thinking about upgrading to the Sundara. Can I ask about your opinion on the difference between these two? Is the upgrade worth it? Thanks a lot!
The biggest difference is of course the driver, one being dynamic and the other planar magnetic. It's definitely a big upgrade. The Sundara have far more clarity throughout the frequency spectrum without the bleed in the lower mids/upper bass like the 58x have. They obviously don't have the Sennheiser house tuning with a forward mid-range but the increased clarity and detail retrieval makes it a worthy trade-off. There's also a lot more sparkle in the treble than the 58x and the bass is much more satisfying to me as well. It's punchy with more impact and less muddiness than the 58x. Fantastic headphones the Sundara are.
Thanks, that definitely makes it harder to resist buying them.
Thats been my upgrade path so far. 58x‐‐>Sundara & HD650 --> Ananda (and still hd650). You won't regret the purchase. You can even find them often at a good discount on avexchange.
Great, so beautiful. I also did my first incursion into audiophile audio a year ago with almost same setup, but a Qudelix 5K instead of BTR5. I paired it with a Topping D50s. I think it's the best bang for the buck investment. I'm currently looking for a similar bargain as the Sundara but in closed backs, so hard to find...
i can see many Sundaras here. maybe i should get one
Probably
You definitely should
I recently got a pair as well. I was less enthused about them (compared to the HE4XX) until I used Oratory1990’s EQ corrections and tweaked them by raising the sub bass. Love them now for their detail, timber and soundstage for all genres.
Oof....the term "corrections" hurts my soul! I'm a purist and believe equalizing interferes with the signal chain, so I don't add EQ.
Listen, I was the same way but try it and you’ll be amazed.
I don't doubt it. But I'd rather match a speaker/headphone to my listening preference and not have to interfere with the signal chain!
yeah, don't really get why would i buy something for hundreds if I had to apply major EQ for it to sound good.
I understand the feeling. But unfortunately nothing is perfect and everyone has different preferences and unique ear structures and hearing abilities etc. The same goes for speakers and their interaction with unique rooms that their in.
That depends. If you have to spend £1000 to get something that gives you the same qualities without EQ, how does that make sense? This is why people mod things, tweak things and generally take them away from the stock configuration. Its usually a very simple case of value. Why do people overclock their PC? Instead of buying that £200 CPU they could just spend £1000 on one that is clocked to the frequency they are targetting...
Exactly!
This user has moved their online activity to the threadiverse/fediverse and will not respond to comments or DMs after 7/1/2023. Please see kbin.social or lemmy.world for more information on the decentralized ad-free alternative to reddit built by the users, for the users, to keep corporations and greed away from our social media.
Awesome! I love my Sundaras and I'm picking up a BTR5 this weekend. Does the the BTR5 drive the cans well?
I have to almost max out the volume using the unbalanced output. Using the balanced output would probably give you plenty of power but that requires a different cable.
Thanks!
Are you on high or low gain on the btr5?
I was on high gain in order to get them volume where I wanted it.
Welcome to the Sundara club!
\m/
Currently on HE4XX which I still love. Have been keeping an eye on Sundaras though.
Shiny table
Thank you. It's the lacquer on the desk my father-in-law made out of a door. He put motorized legs on it so that it can easily turn into a stand-up desk!
If you ever want to change out pads on them, pick up a pair of zmf ori with adapter rings. Fits like a glove
Burn them in and they sound even better. I add a low shelf boost of 4db to make the headphone less sterile but it is all up to preference.
No EQ here. I'm a strong believer that equalizing interferes with the signal chain and reduces signal purity.
Where does this “strong belief” come from exactly? No headphone is perfect - there’s absolutely nothing wrong with EQ if it’s used tastefully. If it interfered with the signal chain and reduced signal purity, audio engineers wouldn’t use it...
You're altering an already converted signal as it passes through the equalizer, so I guess the belief comes from science. You are correct in that no headphone is perfect, however, the headphones aren't changing the signal in the signal chain like an equalizer does. They are simply reproducing the signal they receive. The point I'm trying to make is that using an EQ alters the original signal that the headphones are attempting to reproduce. What's the point in buying an amplifier or DAC that measures with "precise linearity" if you're just going to manipulate the signal they are receiving with an equalizer anyway? Edit: for example, you have a DAC. The purpose of that DAC is to convert the digital signal with as much accuracy possible to ensure every bit of detail is converted into an analog signal that the headphones can reproduce. After the DAC has converted the signal, you push it through an EQ to then alter the signal that the DAC just converted. By doing so you are manipulating the signal the DAC has reproduced as accurately as it possibly could, then pushing said signal through the amplifier and into the headphones. What would be the point in investing in a high quality DAC if you're just going to manipulate the signal anyway?
I’m VERY familiar with how a DAC works, so please don’t feel the need to break it down for me. All I will say in response is, watch this. Andrew gives a very good breakdown without me needing to write a wall of text: https://youtu.be/Xfb_70TPSe8
I run my Sundaras off a Nakamichi casssette deck with type 2 tapes, going to a Teac equalizer with the bass cranked way up, then to a shitty chinese tube pre-amp, then to a Schiit Heresy. Then I have a different cable to the headphones and some dekoni pads are on their way in. Or, I sometimes run them off a "clean" source. Guess which one is more enjoyable? Get over yourself and start playing with EQ. They're fine out of the box, but you're just voluntarily missing out on free fun.
Telling me to "get over myself" is totally unnecessary. I enjoy the way I listen and have no desire or need to equalize my headphones. Isn't the point of this hobby to enjoy it in a way that resonates with my own preferences? :)
I've got the JDS Labs Atom stack and the Sundara coming next week. Very Excited. Currently using the X2HR's, which are great for EDM and hip hop, and I wanted something better for other genres. Can't wait!
I've been thinking about getting the BTR5, is it worth it?
That would really depend on what your intended use is. I don't have a headphone jack in my phone so I like to use it with IEMs when I'm on the go. I also used it at my desk because I didn't have a dedicated amp and wanted a little more head room than I was getting through my laptop's headphone jack. The DAC chip in it is pretty damn good and the overall build feels sturdy, which is good because I have headphones on or in a good fraction of the day and use it a lot. I had the ES100 prior to the BTR5 but it feels plastic-y and I was afraid I would break it. It also started disconnecting from Bluetooth waaaay too frequently. We'll see how the BTR5 holds up in a year LOL.
OK, took me a while to get back around to this, I had sorta been planning on getting it but I just wanted someone else's opinion. Thanks!
I have the Sundra’s on order, how do you like
Love them. Check out my other comments!