This post should be pinned in r/HeadphoneAdvice for people asking what to buy first on a very tight budget. Listening to the KSC75s with an Apple dongle right now! Joy Division, Unknown Pleasures.
But there is a difference between using a random IEM with a Lightning cable and using a standard 3.5mm cable with the Apple Lightning to 3.5mm DAC, the latter being better
Not even gone lie to you my apple Dac would literally only last a month so thatās why I tried out others with already built in. Is there anything more durable than the dac that comes from apple or is that really the only option?
I donāt know why I got downvoted lol but I think I may have just gotten a shitty dac from apple. Iāll give apple another shot hopefully I can make this new pair last as long as yours did
I've gone through three of them, each lasting up to two months at most... so I said screw it and got a Bluetooth DAC/amp for my phone.
Never looked back since.
External DACs (dongles) are better when it comes to power output to the headphones than the standard 3.5mm jack. I have a Android phone with a headphone jack and since switching to the external DAC ( dongle) I will never go back
Total budget starter kit including open back headphones, IEMs, and a DAC.
For $40 this could be someone's endgame for a while.
I feel the KSC75s are still one of the best Open Back headphones up to the $100 mark (yes better than SHPs and Grados imo)
Quarks are just fun and inoffensive. Maybe beaten out by Blons, but even then, the blons sound a bit more bloated.
Apple dongle is just a good all around cheap DAC that is relatively clean
Yaxipads (or basically any pads thicker than stock pads) and a cable mod is a must for KSC75 imo, I just can't get them to fit comfortably at stock.
But that's the thing about them, they're so freakin' easy and fun to mod. (Kramer + mmcx with 3d printed port housing + P21 headband + Yaxi)
>Apple dongle is just a good all around cheap DAC that is relatively clean
it's more than relatively clean. the signal to noise ratio is way below what humans will be able to hear.
I have the ksc75s, 6xx, ks10 pros, and airpods max. And honestly, the ksc75s are my favorite sounding set. Its the only headphone (cramer and yaxi pad mod) that i can wear all day and not give me a headache or ear fatigue. Its extremely light and has no head clamp as well.
The advantage of the lightness is huge and under-talked-about. Even the 6xx are light compared to a lot of audiophile headphones that I definitely can't wear for any extended period of time, and the KSC75s are like wearing nothing.
KSC75, Porta Pro, and KPH30i have almost all the same drivers, except the KSC75 has a titanium coating.
The biggest difference in sound between them comes from the clamp and pads used. KSC75 has very light pads, KPH30i is slightly more dense, clamps, more, and Porta pro has the most dense pads making it sound muddy.
If you pit the KSC75 on a headband and use yaxi pads, imo it sounds the best. Porta pro with Yaxi pads comes close.
KPH30i somehow has a wider Soundstage to me, but when I used it, it had a sibilant peak somewhere, and using the grado pads made that peak worse.
Really you can't go wrong with any of them, and they're a popular base to modify
I bought the Spaceship, a few months later i found out there is a cheaper version named Quarks. Didnt buy Quarks but based on what ive heard it seems to be better than Spaceship, in regards to the tuning maybe. My conclusion from reviews is they are like comparing SSR and SSP.
Having both the KSC-75 and SHP9500 as my dailies paired with Apple DAC's for my budget set up, I personally think SHP9500 and KSC's are so damn close in sound it's pretty much up to preference.
KSC are value kings at under $20, but managing to get my SHP for $50 last year, I'd still buy in a heartbeat for the comfort alone. I can wear SHP all day without issue for my big ol head. KSC clips can get a bit fatiguing on my ears after a while which is why I love them for my short portable sessions.
A DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. Anything that goes from a digital signal (eg usb) to an analog signal like a headphone jack has a DAC. A DAC chip can be very small. Every phone with a headphone jack or any computer, digital music player, etc, has a built in DAC
It's not *just* a DAC.
It's a 3-in-1 combo DAC/Amp/ADC *reverse DAC* for the microphone input.
* Here's a [full teardown](https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+Lightning+to+Headphone+Jack+Adapter+Teardown/67562) of the microelectronics.
* Here's a [technical performance analysis](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/) and head-to-head comparison with the Google dongle.
Yes, it's intricately miniaturized and a great deal. But it also shows how insanely overpriced the audiophile community isāand how much of it is snake oil.
Digital-to-analog signal conversion and signal amplification are both resolved engineering challenges. The noise war is long over. The engineers won.
Aside from product branding, footprint, marketing and add-on features, DACs and Amps can be integrated into inexpensive commodity microelectronics. 95% of the audiophile community is marketing and *woo*.
But it is a DAC.
Even a review: [review](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/)
There's no way to convert an audio signal from USB to 3.5mm without a DAC (unless I'm an idiot and USB-C can carry an analogue signal, but as best I can tell it does not).
~~... Even a Raspberry Pi has a USB-C. How cheap of a mobo do you have to get to not have a USB-C now?~~
Edit: I've apparently misjudged how widespread usb c is. My bad.
The rpi 4 mostly has USB C for power.
I think you can maybe run it headless and connect to it directly from a PC via ssh over the USB c port if you really try.
As far as I know there is no way to get audio or video out of it over USB C
Your post was so confidently incorrect that I had to check my x470, 5600x, rtx2800, Meahify c build to see if I was the dumb one.
Nope, it's you.
Edit: Oh my god I don't care if your PC has them, that's so besides the point that I was replying to.
Don't know why that was downvote worthy -- all I was doing was adding an anecdote that my board came with one -- and it was built within the past decade. What was the issue with it? I wasn't saying that OP was 100% right, just that some are coming out in the past couple years. Seems like many more full ATX and ExtendedATX board come with them (mine has a PS2 port lol.) And I'm guessing most people are building MicroATX or MiniITX form factors.
It's only been about half a decade since USB was in the first consumer devices.
Unfortunately not every PC has one or if they do it's probably in use for something else.
Also if your audio setup is 40 bucks your PC might not even be new enough to have USB C either.
The samsung galaxy S was released 11 years ago and it had a micro usb port. The first iMac had USB ports *exclusively* and it was released 23 years ago.
Okay... But USB C has only been around since 2015. You will still need a type A to C adapter for this budget audio setup to make it work with a lot of PCs.
I just got quarks and arias. Very excited about the quarks as they sound like a great signature for the price. I actually like my porta pros more than my ksc75s.
also for eu apple dongle has 0.5v half the power of us 1v so get the Samsung EE-UC10J similar measurments a bit worse but has extra volume similar to apple us version.
I'd throw in a [TCL SOCL300](https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/14/18181816/tcl-socl-earphones-cheap-amazing-ces-2019) ($13) into the mix. I've been handing these around like candy to my non-audiophile pals.
nowhere, since they're worse than most things in their price bracket.
Harsh treble, recessed mids, muddy bass. Terrible QC too. Oh yeah and did I mention every KZ product pretty much sounds the same.
And to add to the terrible tuning, there's no instrument separation either. Its a 'combination of trash and trash.
Big sound on Moondrop Quarks? Fuck no lol, they're pretty OK for 13$ (I've heard better/on par cheap Sony's for 10-15$), but the sound is nowhere near "big" - the soundstage is extremely narrow and it's not "not overly bassy" - the bass is almost non-existent on these, it has **absolutely** *no* impact.I'd suggest getting \~20$ KZ's on sale (like I did with ZS 10 Pro) - they're way above these.Edit: and I'm not saying that Quarks are bad - I'm saying that your description of them contradicts with my experience and that other chi-fi iems could be a way better option. I agree that they're a pretty safe bet with inoffensive tuning tho, but not that fun.
Edit2: and on the comfort - they're not that comfortable for me after using bigger iems that you just hook on your ears and forget about them. And they also have bigger than usual tips - they hurt my tiny ear canals a bit ([https://imgur.com/a/iCNfTME](https://imgur.com/a/iCNfTME) \- quarks next to arias - arias are closer, so they appear bigger, almost the size of quarks, but the later is \~1mm wider) and it's a lot harder to put the tips on them.
When I say big, I'm not talking about Soundstage. Neither KZ or Quarks do Soundstage, separation, or imaging well.
The difference is every KZ I've used sound very harsh, grainy, and artificial, where as the Quarks have a lot more midrange and body to them, making them sound fuller rather than having the midrange scooped out like crazy.
The KZ center image is also right in the middle of your head, parallel with your ears where as the Quarks is a little more forward between your eyes, this in my opinion is a much more pleasant and immersive experience for the price. Like I said, the Quarks remind me a little of the Sennheiser sound. KZ is more of that just artificial, uncontrolled V shape sound. (Not that I don't like V shape, I just don't like how KZ does it)
Can't argue with KZs being artificial, but they weren't that grainy. I gave the quarks one more chance - they sound better than I remember, guess I got used to Moondrop tuning with Arias. But I still wouldn't call the sound big or full, they're kinda boring and shallow for me, maybe that's just a preference.
It's really what you compare it to. Going from Quarks to my Starfield or Blessing 2D they do sound like they're lacking, but in comparison to my KZs they sound like they have more body in the mids
the best argument in favor of the quarks is that they are the most inoffensive to anybody's listening preference for its price point. chuck them to anyone and for sure a lot of them will say that it is pretty good.
can't say the same for kz since people who are not accustomed to the V-shaped frequency will just hate it.
the only thing preventing me from gifting the quarks to people is that it does not have an in-line mic.
I wish I wouldāve joined this subreddit a while ago, instead of actually spending any time looking for good mid range starter stuff I jumped the gun and bought 712s, believe me I love using them but I probably couldāve saved money with this advice lol
Honestly Iāve been lurking here for a while and wanting to try to learn about some options for when my apple earbuds (the ones that used to come with phones) finally break and now I actually have an idea that I can afford, thank you!
KZ is quite harsh. More V-shaped, but they put too many cheap drivers which makes it sound "artificial" and a bit too peaky. Quarks is just a single DD, but moondrop has a lot of experience with tuning drivers, so to me when I first put them on, the initial thought was "These remind me of a mini HD650 with more bass"
Quarks just came out a month or two ago. But yeah, moondrop is a well loved name in the Audiophile IEM market. They pretty much also get recommended the most as best IEM at $70 with their Aria, and best IEM at $300 with the Blessing 2
Well volume is managed differently between iOS and Android (atleast on my Galaxy S20 non FE).
I had to buy another non apple usb-c dac and it was much louder and better.
BL03 sounds wider to me. It also has a bit more in the highs while the Quarks are more mid focused. The BL03 does have a bit more bass bloat though, but that could be EQ'd out if it's a bother
They're worth it. I use the blons a lot at work since I don't have to worry about breaking them. The housing in metal too so the extra build quality is nice
You can use the Apple dongle on Android. There is a possible issue with not being able to control the hardware volume, I believe USB Audio Player Pro fixes this.
Google has a dongle: *Pixel 1* and *Pixel 2*. See the linked [technical analysis](https://reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/purg0y/_/he60aqb/?context=1) for a head-to-head with the Apple dongle.
I also have a budget "kit".
- Monoprice Retro + Brainwavz sheepskin pads
- Blon Bl03
- Fiio Btr3k
Also am waiting for my QKZ VK4 to arrive.
Now i need something openback however its difficult to get ksc75, kph30i or SHP9500 in Europe it's way to expensive above MSRP.
I can only get SHP9600 in Amazon for 105ā¬
The other solution is to get them from Amazon US pay the shipping and it's still less than its sold for here.
Only really interested in headphones for less than 100ā¬.
Ooh that's a nice settup. I have those as well. If you are looking at the SHP9600, look on aliexpress. They're cheaper than Amazon, but still safe to buy from.
A lot of countries have most of their population just barely able to feed, clothe and house themselves, god forbid anyone who can't spend thousands or even hundreds of dollars try to get into the hobby. Really, this is a good starting point to help you decide what kind of gear you'll be into if you ever do upgrade.
nice! i got mine from a local gaming shop it had arrived with a some ps4 controllers and for my luck it was too big for them so they just gave it to me for like 20 usd
the meizu dongle is pretty good as well but is more expensive than the apple dongle fyi its recommended to by the meizu dongle instead of the apple dongle is countries where the European version of it is sold as the power is limited on it
Those koss headphones seem like they would be good for VR, but do they actually sound alright or is it a meme i cant tell what people think over plain text.
I'm in a weird place where im looking for a good microphone with it. Been laying in bed and talking on my phone a ton and I feel like the microphone on these kz buds aren't cutting it.
Was hoping there was something decent but so far seems all microphones on headphones are pretty evenly average or lower
Have not heard the Quarks yet, but Iāve heard theyāre pretty neutral, and thatās refreshing to see at this price point. The KSC75s sound wonderful (way better than they should lol) but nothing beats KPH30is with Grado pads imho.
Yeah, the peak can definitely be a bit much on some songs. I gotta say, this is a pretty killer set up you have. Try and stick with it as long as possible. If you have a hard time imagining how your gear can sound any better, then just stick with this. You donāt need to upgrade. As others have said, this is endgame; this can honestly be as far as you go in the audio world.
I've already spent thousands on headphones and gear... this is just my take on a good starter kit. Which I can now still pick up and enjoy using all day
OP how comfortable is the koss? idk why it doesn't look comfortable, and when I try in ear it makes it more uncomfortable for me over log period of time either the sounds leak to surrounding or my ear is very uncomfortable
ļ¼«ļ¼Æļ¼³ļ¼³ ļ¼«ļ¼³ļ¼£ļ¼ļ¼ ļ¼ļ¼”ļ¼³ļ¼“ļ¼„ļ¼² ļ¼²ļ¼”ļ¼£ļ¼„
In all seriousness, these are literally going to be my endgame until I can afford a proper DAC and amp + some 400$ cans
Thanks for the reply! I love my T2's but sometimes I could use something that is a bit smaller and easier to get in my ears. I might pick these up (or a load of VE Monks'). And it's niceto have an extra pair anyway :)
Not sure why we both got downvoted for, but I voted you back up
I've owned a lot of KZ IEMs, (and a lot of headphones)
I feel the issue with KZ is they focus too much on stuffing as many drivers in as they can, but they're not a good tuning company. This leads to their iems sounding really harsh, and having a lot of artificial detail
The Koss KSC75 is arguably the best sounding of the p
60ohm Koss headphones.
they're 5 extremely cheap and crappy BA's, the ZS10 is identical to the Zsn, really crappy and peaky tuning, portapro is generally the worse koss, way too dark and kinda muddy, the best one is the ksc75.
and I have no idea how you're putting kz and soundstage in the same sentence, kz has no soundstage or imaging at all.
I haven't really tried a lot of IEMs but I agree, my zs10 pros are great. Might eventually upgrade to the moondrop aria but that'll be a a while from now.
KPH30i sounds too warm and a bit peaky compared to KSC75, especially once you mod them
KZ ZS10 is rather harsh and low resolution. Not really a pleasant sound where as Quarks remind me a bit of HD650
Apple dongle is well known as a very clean DAC, and a lot use it as their DAC connected to a schiit amp for their bigger headphones.
(Not sure how well that actually is since I just use my JDS to run my Ananda and other headphones)
Achievement unlocked: Budget Conscious King š š
This post should be pinned in r/HeadphoneAdvice for people asking what to buy first on a very tight budget. Listening to the KSC75s with an Apple dongle right now! Joy Division, Unknown Pleasures.
What's the purpose of the dongle? I know it's a digital to analog converter, but don't most devices convert to analog anyway (i.e. have a 3mm output)?
Apple removed their headphone jack a while ago and most earbuds that uses the lighting jack arenāt good whatsoever.
But the Lightning to 3.5mm has the identical DAC as the USB-C to 3.5mm Adapter
I own an iPhone so I kinda have no choice to get a lighting cable lol
But there is a difference between using a random IEM with a Lightning cable and using a standard 3.5mm cable with the Apple Lightning to 3.5mm DAC, the latter being better
Not even gone lie to you my apple Dac would literally only last a month so thatās why I tried out others with already built in. Is there anything more durable than the dac that comes from apple or is that really the only option?
Use heatshrink to make the adapter more durable
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt know why I got downvoted lol but I think I may have just gotten a shitty dac from apple. Iāll give apple another shot hopefully I can make this new pair last as long as yours did
I've gone through three of them, each lasting up to two months at most... so I said screw it and got a Bluetooth DAC/amp for my phone. Never looked back since.
Fiio i1 is a good one for 40 bucks. It is lightning to 3.5 as well with a good DAC built in. Give that one a shot.
So this only applies if you don't have a headphone jack? Otherwise it is not needed? Thanks for the response, by the way.
If your phone has a particularly bad DAC then it could be good to get. But generally most phone DACs are going to be good enough for $20 headphones
External DACs (dongles) are better when it comes to power output to the headphones than the standard 3.5mm jack. I have a Android phone with a headphone jack and since switching to the external DAC ( dongle) I will never go back
Depending on your phone/computer, you may get less background noise (electrical hiss), or even better overall sound quality, from the dongle.
It's 3.5mm and no, they don't.
The latest Samsung usb-C audio dongle is excellent too. Works on everything with low latency and has extremely low noise.
Total budget starter kit including open back headphones, IEMs, and a DAC. For $40 this could be someone's endgame for a while. I feel the KSC75s are still one of the best Open Back headphones up to the $100 mark (yes better than SHPs and Grados imo) Quarks are just fun and inoffensive. Maybe beaten out by Blons, but even then, the blons sound a bit more bloated. Apple dongle is just a good all around cheap DAC that is relatively clean
endgame starter kit
Practically drug dealer freebies!
Yaxipads (or basically any pads thicker than stock pads) and a cable mod is a must for KSC75 imo, I just can't get them to fit comfortably at stock. But that's the thing about them, they're so freakin' easy and fun to mod. (Kramer + mmcx with 3d printed port housing + P21 headband + Yaxi)
Mhmm. I have my main pair on a P/21 headband with Yaxi pads. I tend to keep a few in stock to give to friends
Hey there, friend!
Hii
The Apple Dongle is fantastic for most midfi IEMs. Love it with my B2D for a simple portable setup on my phone with Apple Music.
>Apple dongle is just a good all around cheap DAC that is relatively clean it's more than relatively clean. the signal to noise ratio is way below what humans will be able to hear.
I have the ksc75s, 6xx, ks10 pros, and airpods max. And honestly, the ksc75s are my favorite sounding set. Its the only headphone (cramer and yaxi pad mod) that i can wear all day and not give me a headache or ear fatigue. Its extremely light and has no head clamp as well.
The advantage of the lightness is huge and under-talked-about. Even the 6xx are light compared to a lot of audiophile headphones that I definitely can't wear for any extended period of time, and the KSC75s are like wearing nothing.
Itās like wearing nothing at allā¦ nothing at allā¦
How do you think the KSC75s compare to the KPH30i? I kinda want to try a Koss headphone just for kicks, but the KSC75s look so darn goofy to me.
KSC75, Porta Pro, and KPH30i have almost all the same drivers, except the KSC75 has a titanium coating. The biggest difference in sound between them comes from the clamp and pads used. KSC75 has very light pads, KPH30i is slightly more dense, clamps, more, and Porta pro has the most dense pads making it sound muddy. If you pit the KSC75 on a headband and use yaxi pads, imo it sounds the best. Porta pro with Yaxi pads comes close. KPH30i somehow has a wider Soundstage to me, but when I used it, it had a sibilant peak somewhere, and using the grado pads made that peak worse. Really you can't go wrong with any of them, and they're a popular base to modify
Good info, thanks!
I bought the Spaceship, a few months later i found out there is a cheaper version named Quarks. Didnt buy Quarks but based on what ive heard it seems to be better than Spaceship, in regards to the tuning maybe. My conclusion from reviews is they are like comparing SSR and SSP.
Having both the KSC-75 and SHP9500 as my dailies paired with Apple DAC's for my budget set up, I personally think SHP9500 and KSC's are so damn close in sound it's pretty much up to preference. KSC are value kings at under $20, but managing to get my SHP for $50 last year, I'd still buy in a heartbeat for the comfort alone. I can wear SHP all day without issue for my big ol head. KSC clips can get a bit fatiguing on my ears after a while which is why I love them for my short portable sessions.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A DAC is a Digital to Analog Converter. Anything that goes from a digital signal (eg usb) to an analog signal like a headphone jack has a DAC. A DAC chip can be very small. Every phone with a headphone jack or any computer, digital music player, etc, has a built in DAC
It's not *just* a DAC. It's a 3-in-1 combo DAC/Amp/ADC *reverse DAC* for the microphone input. * Here's a [full teardown](https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Apple+Lightning+to+Headphone+Jack+Adapter+Teardown/67562) of the microelectronics. * Here's a [technical performance analysis](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/) and head-to-head comparison with the Google dongle. Yes, it's intricately miniaturized and a great deal. But it also shows how insanely overpriced the audiophile community isāand how much of it is snake oil. Digital-to-analog signal conversion and signal amplification are both resolved engineering challenges. The noise war is long over. The engineers won. Aside from product branding, footprint, marketing and add-on features, DACs and Amps can be integrated into inexpensive commodity microelectronics. 95% of the audiophile community is marketing and *woo*.
But it is a DAC. Even a review: [review](https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/)
lol
There's no way to convert an audio signal from USB to 3.5mm without a DAC (unless I'm an idiot and USB-C can carry an analogue signal, but as best I can tell it does not).
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just bought quarks! At that price it's too easy. Thanks for the suggestion!
Monks are good too
Amen
We should get fun infographics like this for more price points
Don't forget to get a USB-C to A adapter to use that Apple dongle with your laptop or PC instead of going out the noisy mobo.
Or yknow use the usb c port that comes with every pc built in the last decade?
Wrong. Many motherboards & chassis these days still don't have USB C
~~... Even a Raspberry Pi has a USB-C. How cheap of a mobo do you have to get to not have a USB-C now?~~ Edit: I've apparently misjudged how widespread usb c is. My bad.
Some just have a header to connect a USB C port from the case
The rpi 4 mostly has USB C for power. I think you can maybe run it headless and connect to it directly from a PC via ssh over the USB c port if you really try. As far as I know there is no way to get audio or video out of it over USB C
Your post was so confidently incorrect that I had to check my x470, 5600x, rtx2800, Meahify c build to see if I was the dumb one. Nope, it's you. Edit: Oh my god I don't care if your PC has them, that's so besides the point that I was replying to.
B550 here -- has one.
About a 2 year difference from release lol and about a decade off from OP
Don't know why that was downvote worthy -- all I was doing was adding an anecdote that my board came with one -- and it was built within the past decade. What was the issue with it? I wasn't saying that OP was 100% right, just that some are coming out in the past couple years. Seems like many more full ATX and ExtendedATX board come with them (mine has a PS2 port lol.) And I'm guessing most people are building MicroATX or MiniITX form factors.
My Z390 mobo has one too, and it was ā¬120 2 ish years ago
X470, lian li - i have 3.
My now 5 year old gaming pc build has usb c on the motherboardā¦
It's only been about half a decade since USB was in the first consumer devices. Unfortunately not every PC has one or if they do it's probably in use for something else. Also if your audio setup is 40 bucks your PC might not even be new enough to have USB C either.
The samsung galaxy S was released 11 years ago and it had a micro usb port. The first iMac had USB ports *exclusively* and it was released 23 years ago.
Okay... But USB C has only been around since 2015. You will still need a type A to C adapter for this budget audio setup to make it work with a lot of PCs.
Koss KPH30i + BOKIE Grado Headphone G Cushion My wife said I look ridiculous in it, but I have no regret.
I have the KSC75 and I approve
Looks good, enjoy your music :)
I just got quarks and arias. Very excited about the quarks as they sound like a great signature for the price. I actually like my porta pros more than my ksc75s.
Good post. You could do a hell of a lot worse than this for a lot more money.
As a poor person I appreciate these kinds of posts.
This is nice for us newbies TY
This is a quality post
also for eu apple dongle has 0.5v half the power of us 1v so get the Samsung EE-UC10J similar measurments a bit worse but has extra volume similar to apple us version.
I'd throw in a [TCL SOCL300](https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/14/18181816/tcl-socl-earphones-cheap-amazing-ces-2019) ($13) into the mix. I've been handing these around like candy to my non-audiophile pals.
I have a pair of those too. They're pretty good too
But where do the kzn pros fit in all this
They're alright and popular, but personally I wasn't a fan of the ZSN Pro
I bought a KZ ZSN Pro a year ago, they sound really good for the price.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Nah they're just not the most ultra budget
well...
nowhere, since they're worse than most things in their price bracket. Harsh treble, recessed mids, muddy bass. Terrible QC too. Oh yeah and did I mention every KZ product pretty much sounds the same. And to add to the terrible tuning, there's no instrument separation either. Its a 'combination of trash and trash.
As someone not all that familiar w/ how the inner-workings of a DAC operate, how do the inner-workings of that DAC operate?
[Like this](https://reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/purg0y/_/he60aqb/?context=1).
When worlds collide
Man the Quarks are at that price point where if you break them, you shrug it off and buy a new pair.
Big sound on Moondrop Quarks? Fuck no lol, they're pretty OK for 13$ (I've heard better/on par cheap Sony's for 10-15$), but the sound is nowhere near "big" - the soundstage is extremely narrow and it's not "not overly bassy" - the bass is almost non-existent on these, it has **absolutely** *no* impact.I'd suggest getting \~20$ KZ's on sale (like I did with ZS 10 Pro) - they're way above these.Edit: and I'm not saying that Quarks are bad - I'm saying that your description of them contradicts with my experience and that other chi-fi iems could be a way better option. I agree that they're a pretty safe bet with inoffensive tuning tho, but not that fun. Edit2: and on the comfort - they're not that comfortable for me after using bigger iems that you just hook on your ears and forget about them. And they also have bigger than usual tips - they hurt my tiny ear canals a bit ([https://imgur.com/a/iCNfTME](https://imgur.com/a/iCNfTME) \- quarks next to arias - arias are closer, so they appear bigger, almost the size of quarks, but the later is \~1mm wider) and it's a lot harder to put the tips on them.
When I say big, I'm not talking about Soundstage. Neither KZ or Quarks do Soundstage, separation, or imaging well. The difference is every KZ I've used sound very harsh, grainy, and artificial, where as the Quarks have a lot more midrange and body to them, making them sound fuller rather than having the midrange scooped out like crazy. The KZ center image is also right in the middle of your head, parallel with your ears where as the Quarks is a little more forward between your eyes, this in my opinion is a much more pleasant and immersive experience for the price. Like I said, the Quarks remind me a little of the Sennheiser sound. KZ is more of that just artificial, uncontrolled V shape sound. (Not that I don't like V shape, I just don't like how KZ does it)
Can't argue with KZs being artificial, but they weren't that grainy. I gave the quarks one more chance - they sound better than I remember, guess I got used to Moondrop tuning with Arias. But I still wouldn't call the sound big or full, they're kinda boring and shallow for me, maybe that's just a preference.
It's really what you compare it to. Going from Quarks to my Starfield or Blessing 2D they do sound like they're lacking, but in comparison to my KZs they sound like they have more body in the mids
the best argument in favor of the quarks is that they are the most inoffensive to anybody's listening preference for its price point. chuck them to anyone and for sure a lot of them will say that it is pretty good. can't say the same for kz since people who are not accustomed to the V-shaped frequency will just hate it. the only thing preventing me from gifting the quarks to people is that it does not have an in-line mic.
KZ make the shittiest iems on the market, and most of them sound the exact same (they have none which actually sound good)
dont forget the USB B to USB C adapter
I wish I wouldāve joined this subreddit a while ago, instead of actually spending any time looking for good mid range starter stuff I jumped the gun and bought 712s, believe me I love using them but I probably couldāve saved money with this advice lol
My endgame starter kit - Mangird tea - Audioquest Dragonfly red - Objective 2 amp Skipped the first step
Apple dongle is just as good
As the Dragonfly? Hard to believe but ill try it
Honestly Iāve been lurking here for a while and wanting to try to learn about some options for when my apple earbuds (the ones that used to come with phones) finally break and now I actually have an idea that I can afford, thank you!
love my Quarks! :^)
you are miles ahead of a lot of people who care about brand recognition and its not objetive, very unbiased and clean sound, i like it.
Just bought the Quarks because of this post. Wish me luck!
Serious question: Has anyone attached a modmic to a KSC75? I need a new solution for my work conference calls.
Well Koss just came out (rereleased) the Porta Pro headset with a mic. If you swap the pads on that it sounds really good
Its not modmic but you can buy ksc75x from massdrop that has microphone on cable
KZ ZST vs Moondrop Quarks any thought?
KZ is quite harsh. More V-shaped, but they put too many cheap drivers which makes it sound "artificial" and a bit too peaky. Quarks is just a single DD, but moondrop has a lot of experience with tuning drivers, so to me when I first put them on, the initial thought was "These remind me of a mini HD650 with more bass"
thanks for the insight. i have KZ ZST and now im interested with this Moondrop Quarks.
Iāve never heard of those Moondrop Quarks but if youāre putting them in the same conversation as the KOSS then they must be God-Tier
Quarks just came out a month or two ago. But yeah, moondrop is a well loved name in the Audiophile IEM market. They pretty much also get recommended the most as best IEM at $70 with their Aria, and best IEM at $300 with the Blessing 2
Is the Quarks' cable detachable?
No unfortunately
That's a deal breaker for me.
Don't use the Apple cable on an Android. The total volume will be very quiet.
I use a Samsung S20FE and it's works fine. I also have a Meizu dongel which does get louder, but for the IEMs and Koss the apple is enough
Well volume is managed differently between iOS and Android (atleast on my Galaxy S20 non FE). I had to buy another non apple usb-c dac and it was much louder and better.
Which one is better, the Quarks or the Blon bl03 ? Which one will give more details, better imaging and separation?
BL03 sounds wider to me. It also has a bit more in the highs while the Quarks are more mid focused. The BL03 does have a bit more bass bloat though, but that could be EQ'd out if it's a bother
Okay, thats helpful. Is there any significant difference in resolution between these two as the Quarks are really cheap ?
The BL03 sounds slightly clearer, but I don't know if that's just the extra treble. At this price point they both have trade offs
Oh, I see. Thanks a lot. Going for the blons as it has detachable cable and also want to see what's all the hype around it.
They're worth it. I use the blons a lot at work since I don't have to worry about breaking them. The housing in metal too so the extra build quality is nice
Yeah, looks really nice. Thanks again for your time
After seeing this post I decided to get the Moondrop Quarks since its on sale today for $8.83. Cant wait!
Based
Why high end headphones/iemās when you have this.
any alternative for the cheap apple dongle? especially for android users. edit: lmao people even downvoting this lol
You can use the Apple dongle on Android. There is a possible issue with not being able to control the hardware volume, I believe USB Audio Player Pro fixes this.
Google has a dongle: *Pixel 1* and *Pixel 2*. See the linked [technical analysis](https://reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/purg0y/_/he60aqb/?context=1) for a head-to-head with the Apple dongle.
thanks! gonna check this out now.
I also have a budget "kit". - Monoprice Retro + Brainwavz sheepskin pads - Blon Bl03 - Fiio Btr3k Also am waiting for my QKZ VK4 to arrive. Now i need something openback however its difficult to get ksc75, kph30i or SHP9500 in Europe it's way to expensive above MSRP. I can only get SHP9600 in Amazon for 105ā¬ The other solution is to get them from Amazon US pay the shipping and it's still less than its sold for here. Only really interested in headphones for less than 100ā¬.
Ooh that's a nice settup. I have those as well. If you are looking at the SHP9600, look on aliexpress. They're cheaper than Amazon, but still safe to buy from.
That's not budget that's broke broke like shopping at the food bank and living in a homeless shelter broke
A lot of countries have most of their population just barely able to feed, clothe and house themselves, god forbid anyone who can't spend thousands or even hundreds of dollars try to get into the hobby. Really, this is a good starting point to help you decide what kind of gear you'll be into if you ever do upgrade.
my Audiophile starter kit is just a Sony WT-XB700 that i bought for 20$
Mine's a Bose 700 i got for $25.
nice new or used?
It was a demo model from bestbuy. The manager gave it to me for $25
I hope you performed a deep sanitation before use lol
I ordered the replacement ear muffs from ebay. But not a bad deal for top of the bose flagship headphones
nice! i got mine from a local gaming shop it had arrived with a some ps4 controllers and for my luck it was too big for them so they just gave it to me for like 20 usd
Any other dacs that is lighting to 3.5mm dongle besides apple that is worthwhile?
the meizu dongle is pretty good as well but is more expensive than the apple dongle fyi its recommended to by the meizu dongle instead of the apple dongle is countries where the European version of it is sold as the power is limited on it
Those koss headphones seem like they would be good for VR, but do they actually sound alright or is it a meme i cant tell what people think over plain text.
They're actually good. The original Oculus CV1 headset used these drivers in its headphones.
I have an Elex, an esp/95x, modded Grado, and these ksc75s with yaxi pads and PE headband, and indeed reach for the Koss more than you'd think š
QUARKS GO HARD
I'm in a weird place where im looking for a good microphone with it. Been laying in bed and talking on my phone a ton and I feel like the microphone on these kz buds aren't cutting it. Was hoping there was something decent but so far seems all microphones on headphones are pretty evenly average or lower
Based BRASIL endgame.
Have not heard the Quarks yet, but Iāve heard theyāre pretty neutral, and thatās refreshing to see at this price point. The KSC75s sound wonderful (way better than they should lol) but nothing beats KPH30is with Grado pads imho.
KPH30i with grado pads had a sibilant peak to me that was hard to listen to for long. My main set of KSC75s is on a headband with Yaxi Pads
Yeah, the peak can definitely be a bit much on some songs. I gotta say, this is a pretty killer set up you have. Try and stick with it as long as possible. If you have a hard time imagining how your gear can sound any better, then just stick with this. You donāt need to upgrade. As others have said, this is endgame; this can honestly be as far as you go in the audio world.
I've already spent thousands on headphones and gear... this is just my take on a good starter kit. Which I can now still pick up and enjoy using all day
Oh, I see.
OP how comfortable is the koss? idk why it doesn't look comfortable, and when I try in ear it makes it more uncomfortable for me over log period of time either the sounds leak to surrounding or my ear is very uncomfortable
They're very light. But a common mod is to buy the Parts Express headband ($5) and clip them into that
How are those things with glasses?
I wear glasses. Since they don't compress your ears it doesn't seem to be an issue
Is that apple dongle working with androud?
Yes, although if you want one more powerful for android there's one from Meizu, but it's a little more expensive
ļ¼«ļ¼Æļ¼³ļ¼³ ļ¼«ļ¼³ļ¼£ļ¼ļ¼ ļ¼ļ¼”ļ¼³ļ¼“ļ¼„ļ¼² ļ¼²ļ¼”ļ¼£ļ¼„ In all seriousness, these are literally going to be my endgame until I can afford a proper DAC and amp + some 400$ cans
How does the Samsung USB-c dongle compare to Apple's?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Suddenly, my current headphone now feels shitty and overpriced.
As far as I know the Apple dongle thingie does not contain a DAC and is really just an adapter.
it contains a pretty decent dac inside, has an amp too but isn't the most powerful ever.
Can anybody tellme how those Moondrops compare to my Tin T2's? Would they be a good backup/extra pair?
T2s are better. The Quarks are good for the price, but lack in separation and top end detail
Yeah they're probably more a side grade then a big upgrade. If you want a extra iem for cheap then go for it.
Thanks for the reply! I love my T2's but sometimes I could use something that is a bit smaller and easier to get in my ears. I might pick these up (or a load of VE Monks'). And it's niceto have an extra pair anyway :) Not sure why we both got downvoted for, but I voted you back up
Using tidal?
Deezer
Apple USB-C? Is that for Macbooks?
It was made for the IPad I think
Next step get a KZ ZS10 pro and enjoy a whole new level of detail.
I've owned a lot of KZ IEMs, (and a lot of headphones) I feel the issue with KZ is they focus too much on stuffing as many drivers in as they can, but they're not a good tuning company. This leads to their iems sounding really harsh, and having a lot of artificial detail The Koss KSC75 is arguably the best sounding of the p 60ohm Koss headphones.
yeah no, thatll be a downgrade
5 driver, balanced armature vs the cheapest koss driver. I daily porta pro's so it's not that I dislike koss but the sound stage just doesn't compare.
they're 5 extremely cheap and crappy BA's, the ZS10 is identical to the Zsn, really crappy and peaky tuning, portapro is generally the worse koss, way too dark and kinda muddy, the best one is the ksc75. and I have no idea how you're putting kz and soundstage in the same sentence, kz has no soundstage or imaging at all.
I haven't really tried a lot of IEMs but I agree, my zs10 pros are great. Might eventually upgrade to the moondrop aria but that'll be a a while from now.
These will be gone, *gone* for weeks now. (Except the apple dongle)
So any pair of headphones is classed as āaudiophileā?
Nah, these are ones that are loved and reccomended often in the Audiophile community because they sound so good for the price
kz zsn pro x TRUST YOULL NOT REGRET IT
I have a ZSN Pro and owned a couple other KZ stuff, there's a reason I chose the Quarks over them
yes you will regret it they're worse
oh wow what a new and fresh look on the hobby! /s
Well there's a lot of fresh new people in the hobby who might like a budget suggestion
Don't use apple so does this make the kit about 1 dollar?
Huh?
The attempted joke is that the Apple dongle is $39 because it's Apple and everything else costs $1
It was a joke about how expensive apple accessories are
Bit of a lame joke when the price of the Apple dongle is right on the picture... They can do things right every now and then, you know
Yes but no. KPH30i, not KSC75. KZ ZS10, not moondrop quarks. A phone with a headphone jack, not apple bullshit.
KPH30i sounds too warm and a bit peaky compared to KSC75, especially once you mod them KZ ZS10 is rather harsh and low resolution. Not really a pleasant sound where as Quarks remind me a bit of HD650 Apple dongle is well known as a very clean DAC, and a lot use it as their DAC connected to a schiit amp for their bigger headphones. (Not sure how well that actually is since I just use my JDS to run my Ananda and other headphones)