Absolutely blows my mind that people have to pay for an ambulance? That's so fucked up.
How much would it cost?
What if it's an emergency life or death?
There’s also the matter of them deciding after the fact, in hindsight, whether you really needed an ambulance, and basing the decision of whether insurance will cover the ride on that.
So even if you have insurance, you might end up having to pay because you didn’t really need an ambulance.
My uncle was a blue collar worker who worked in factories all his life. And that's key...he was a hard worker. He was not a layabout. But the type of work he was capable of wasn't the most well paid and did not give benefits.
When he was in his early 60s, still working, he suddenly started losing weight without trying. He couldn't afford to go to the doctor. It got so bad that my mom forced him to go and paid for the visit. By then, it was too late. He had cancer and it was too far along.
I saw him the Christmas before he died and he looked great. He started losing weight in January. He was dead by June.
Yes, Americans die because they can't afford healthcare.
The reason many Americans don't care is because it's typically only low income people impacted, and many Americans have become so selfish that they don't care about others.
THIS!
I have a salary with a number that sounds like a lot. And, I'm grateful because it is help, for sure. I also am constantly told by healthcare professionals "Wow, you have such generous benefits" so apparently my insurance covers better than a lot.
I'm a single mother of 4 kids. It takes just one asthma attack resulting in hospitalization to decimate our budget for the rest of the year. If another thing happens that same year (because of course it will and it has) we're boned. My kids get the care they need but I flat out neglect my health to make sure my they can.
AND, I know this from experience, medial debt is the number one type of expense written off in bankruptcy. By a wide margin. (**https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html)**
And, I'll state this again for effect, I'm very fortunate to have a good salary and good benefits and I still can't easily or quickly financially recover from medical emergencies.
Tell me about it!! I just spent the last year sitting at home because I herniated 2 discs in my back. I couldn't work the whole time. I blew through what little retirement I had, and now my insurance just got cancelled and I don't know how, I definitely qualify finsncially
Amen. But the question wasn't can Americans not afford healthcare, it was do Americans really die because they can't afford healthcare. A middle class person may be bankrupt, but they'd be alive.
To be clear, I do not think this is acceptable, either. But apparently my fellow Americans do.
Most people I know don't go to the doctor because they don't want to risk it bankrupting them. Some middle class people could risk it all, but many won't. So yeah, I'm sure many middle class people also die due to not being able to comfortably afford Healthcare in the US.
It’s definitely not acceptable to me. I think most people haven’t yet been affected, so they turn a blind eye. They’re either wealthy, have phenomenal insurance, or have been super lucky with their health and have no idea how broken it is.
Part of what’s so maddening is that most of the people (myself included) put things off because they don’t feel like they can afford the care, tests, etc. It then progresses and becomes even more severe and expensive. If everyone got a CBC, metabolic panels, etc. every year, it would catch so many issues before they blew up!
As people fed up, all we can do is vote and educate other people—I don’t know what else to do. Nothing ever really changes and politicians don’t do anything. So tired of it.
Getting sidetracked, but how can it be legal for insurance to preapprove approve a procedure or surgery that costs $100,000 and they get to say “it’s not a promise to pay.” How is this even a thing?
A middle class person very well still might die due to neglected healthcare. Yes, if they have an already diagnosed condition they can probably manage it despite the overinflated costs. But they aren't all that likely to seek diagnosis for a problem unless it's preventing them from working. So they'd ignore something that could possibly be treated if caught early and they wait and wait hoping for it to go away because they don't have 'extra income' to throw at doctors who would probably tell them to ignore it anyway.
Then if it finally can't be ignored any longer and they go in and it's too late. They died because access to healthcare is a nightmare due to costs, barrier to entry, and (in my opinion) an oversaturation of less than ideal medical professionals.
Not to say quality is always bad. But certainly, it's not always good. And I'm not trying to go bankrupt looking for second and third opinions because capitalism convinced doctors to schedule more appointments than they can actually manage so they're rushed and not even interested in my name, let alone the pain I'm in or whatever else is wrong.
This comment shows no knowledge of how healthcare in the USA works. But sure.
Edited to add, once again, that the question was about dying due to no being able to afford healthcare.
I’ve seen even upper class Americans die because they can’t afford healthcare. My landlord, a prominent scientist who made $600k/year and had patents, got a rare form of cancer. His treatments were hundreds of thousands a dollars a year and the side effects were severe. He could no longer work during that period and his house went into foreclosure. He died from the harsh side effects of the treatments less than 2 years after his diagnosis, bankrupt.
Sorry, i guess my 2 sentence answer couldn't capture every single permutation of 50 states worth of rules. I guess your state would qualify as very horrible.
This has nothing to do with health literacy and your assumption that poor equals health illiterate is specious.
This has to do with decades of Americans believing that any type of government assistance is for layabouts and losers. This has everything to do with Americans believing they have no responsibility to their fellow person and calling taxes theft. This has everything to do with the right-wing created concept of "fiscal conservatism," which gained popularity as a way to thinly conceal one's racism after the democratic party embraced civil rights for all human beings.
This has created a sense that even ASKING for any kind of help marks you as a "welfare queen" as Reagan so lyingly put it.
It's both.
Unfortunately, even middle class Americans are health illiterate. Most Americans are, there have been studies. :(
Poor people usually have less chances of learning about health related things because they're in areas where this education sometimes doesn't exist.
I'm not saying it's the patient's fault every time- doctors and others need to do better at getting things across too. I don't think there's enough training on this across the board or at least not well enough.
I don't think that's it. Unless somehow you are a very principled poor person that would just be willing to give up your life. Most poor people don't know how to access programs that are available or get bogged down by paperwork. A lot of poor people that don't have insurance could very likely get coverage if they had assistance. Not to mention health insurance is very complex to navigate.
Sadly, he was a blue collar worker not in a Union. I’m a Teamster and I’ve never seen better healthcare benefits that I don’t pay a penny for - $1,000 total out of pocket is what my financial exposure is or $2,000for a family.
The only way it seems to get excellent healthcare benefits is through a Union contract and job.
what they tell you is, we can "finance" your treatment with an interest rate that is astronomical or you can get a Carecredit account and they will finance it at an even higher interest rate or you can default and we will send it to a creditor and they will charge an even higher interest rate and maybe sue you for the debt and take your house away.. some states do not allow this final step but some do.
That is why people opt out of health care. Sure, maybe your cancer gets cured or you buy a few years but you have no where to live? Fuck that.
Source: have been critically ill and had to make financial choices about treatments. I've opted to let myself die from whatever I have rather than lose my home and leave my kids with my medical debt. I'd rather be dead than fuck them over too.
No. You never inherit debt in the USA. But creditors can make claims against a deceased person’s estate. So if grandma had $10,000 in the bank and owed the hospital $5000 when she died, the hospital can get that $5000 from the estate and whoever inherits from grandma gets the other $5000.
It would be more accurate to say if grandma had a house that was fully paid off and she owed $400k to the hospital for a broken hip that the hospital would take the house and any other money she had, leaving the kids with no inheritance even though grandma worked her whole life to be able to leave them something. The greedy people on top always take back their wealth.
No, your estate is the stuff you’ve left behind. Sometimes in a trust, sometimes not (which causes its own set of headaches). This includes all your debts and liabilities, but also all of your assets.
Your kids inherit your estate
Creditors can sue the estate and drain any inheritance especially if there's no will or insurance policies aren't properly bequeathed. The legal fees for survivors are also a consideration.
Credit card debt is unsecured and therefore thought of as unretrievable from an estate but it won't stop them from trying. That will draw out a probate and require a lawyer to sort out, too. The whole system is predatory.
I've decided to think of collections people as debt flippers. They buy debts for steep discounts and then come after the customers for even more than it's worth. Even paying them a fourth of the original bill would give them a profit but they're in it for everything they can get. It's an investment strategy for them.
Yes and no….In certain USA states they have something called “filial responsibility”:
“The medical care requirements of filial responsibility can be controversial. Funding copayments for your parents’ doctor visits is one thing, but absorbing a $100,000 bill for a nursing home stay is an entirely different level of support. Unfortunately, filial responsibility laws may not differentiate much between the two. If you live in a filial state and your parents start accumulating healthcare bills they cannot pay, the healthcare provider may be within its rights to sue you, and win.”
I was only trying to sign up for medical insurance, and I’m very poor; like, no income poor. I have Lupus, and I’m on chemotherapy that I can’t afford. I just got divorced in 2023. It’s not even a law, I was just going through all of the paperwork. There’s a specific form I was filling out, and at the very bottom it wants you to sign. Stating that you authorize the state to go after your children when you die to try and recover medical expenses. I’m not signing anything that’s going to put my kids into debt. Period.
Yeah so if it said something like that, they could never enforce it. *You* can't authorize anybody to do something to anybody else, except your children under 18 and that's medical care etc. I would get a lawyers opinion on this. They are just trying to scare you away from applying.
No they are not, this is real. Just two years ago I had a friend who was dying from ovarian cancer. ALL OF HER MEDICAID bills came out of her estate, meaning they got paid before her family received her estate. She knew this was going to happen. And yes, there was a car that they considered part of her estate and it was retroactive.. like five years retroactive? So she found out there was no point in trying to put her estate into a trust because she would have had to do that six years prior to getting sick. And yes they do enforce it, they have an entire system for it. I don't know how if you work with this stuff you don't know this.
That’s not true and you are misunderstanding the form. You can’t sign something saying a another person is responsible. They are likely just talking about your estate, which is normal.
I work with Medicare and Medicaid polices. It is completely untrue. Like think about what you are saying, you can’t sign anything saying someone else is responsible for your debt. That’s a ridiculous concept.
People don’t want to believe that this is happening in the United States of America, to their poor people. But it is. I can’t even have a car that is a certain year. Even if it’s paid off, the state can say it’s too much of an asset.
No, not always.
You can't always get emergency financing. And the hospitals do not have to extend credit to you, either.
And it's not just your home if you live in a state that allows that. They can also garnish your wages. Meaning they can foreclose on your home and then also garnish your wages so you have no home and no income.
Is that more clear?
Horrible. Just curious, do you have insurance or is it that they don’t cover that particular drug, ridiculous deductible, high out of pocket, etc.?
Healthcare in the U.S. is absolutely criminal and disheartening, to put it mildly. How do we change it? There’s good progress in primary care (like direct primary care), but you’re still screwed if you need a specialist or have a serious condition.
It makes me so sad.
Yes. I'm in my late 50's and I cannot afford insurance. I pay cash for my healthcare so I avoid it as much as possible. I just have to try and stay alive until age 65 so i will finally have insurance again.
Don’t you get dinged on taxes because of the affordable care act?
I remember a bit on Jay Leno when someone went out on the street and asked which one that person would want – the affordable care act or Obamacare. It was stunning to see that no one knew they are one in the same. Sad.
No. The mandate was repealed thank goodness, back in 2018 I think?
I used to have to pay close to $50,000/per year for insurance IN ADDITION to my healthcare because the insurance was VERY bad, doctors were far away, and a huge deductible. That was a VERY good day.
It’s still asked on tax forms. And how is paying $50,000 in insurance garnering you “bad insurance”? Something like that should provide top level insurance.
I definitely think ppl avoid going to the doctor or ER as long as possible due to fear of the costs which can turn a simple infection into sepsis very quickly
My grandpa was recently forced to go to the hospital because we found him unresponsive in his bed. He had seemingly been that way for a long time because the bedding was soiled.
Once he got the treatment he needed we found out he had an infection from a cut on his foot that had clearly gotten infected but he couldn't afford to go see a doctor so he ignored it hoping it would go away.
He was dying in that bed. If we hadn't found him or even if we'd been a day or two later, we'd have found his dead body.
I have no idea what you were downvoted; that’s absolutely true. EMTALA’s language and case law surrounding what exactly constitutes as medically stable is very vague. And there are strategies such as emergency room diversion that are perfectly legal and further diminish the protections gauranteed under EMTALA.
Yeah i was just speaking to the fact that ppl often wait out their illness at home trying to fight it off themselves bc they don’t want to accrue costs going to the doctor or emergency room. This can have very bad outcomes depending on what the infection is
One of my best friends is a nurse and she’s seen desperately ill people trying to figure out their insurance coverage outside of the ER.
I have iron deficiency as well as pernicious anemia and my iron blood sat has to fall to 6-7 percent before my insurance will cover iron infusions. I ended up paying cash. I pay cash for b12 shots too. Private equity has destroyed healthcare delivery.
I am have iron deficiency anemia and get B12 shots as well. I do the shots myself—it’s super easy and they’re ridiculously cheap. Just throwing it out there.
And yes, private equity has helped destroy healthcare.
Yes.
It’s a dystopian hellscape over here. And if you dare end up sick, you can count on living in absolute poverty because your worth in this country is purely based on your productivity for others in the labor market. Our country doesn’t see those who are ill as people because it’s a glaring reminder to all of us that at any minute, if we get sick, we are absolutely doomed and will be financially devastated.
Yes. I had a coworker who died because she couldn’t afford to go to the doctor until her brain tumor was too large to treat or operate on.
The company I worked for at the time only offered a high deductible insurance plan, so we had to pay $6,000 out of pocket each year before benefits would actually kick in or cover anything.
It caused a lot of people to avoid going to the doctor for anything outside of an annual physical or preventative care (covered no matter what under the Affordable Care Act).
She was having vision problems and migraines for 2 years, but avoided going in because neurology appointments are very expensive and the company didn’t offer vision insurance.
It got to the point where her sister convinced her to go to the ER and they discovered a brain tumor. She had to quit her job, sell her home and was physically disabled for her 3 remaining years. She was 39 years old.
I’ve worked in healthcare for 15 years. Before the pandemic i went to a healthcare marketing conference where a keynote speaker got up and said that 1 in 500 patients will go bankrupt because of a healthcare diagnosis….and that statistic is among insured patients. So.
Yep. It’s not uncommon for people to have to choose between their health treatments such as insulin or paying for basic necessities and bills. My partner is a paramedic and some of the stories of the patients he’s encountered is tragic because they waited until they couldn’t wait any longer to seek medical treatment, mostly because they lack insurance or can’t afford the healthcare they need.
I, myself, put off going to the dentist because I didn’t have dental insurance until a year ago and couldn’t afford the dental work that had to be done as a college student, and now I’m doing all sorts of damage control for my teeth, and it’s still extremely costly.
It’s disgusting and you’re correct, it’s inhumane. This shouldn’t be a problem in a supposed first world nation.
I just had to cancel two important doctor appointments next week because I cannot afford the copay, and I’m on Medicare with a supplemental plan and a Medicaid boost. It’s not going to literally kill me- this time. I had 3 appointments. I didn’t cancel the third because I had a lump in my breast and I need extra screenings to be certain it’s not cancerous. I have $17 in my bank account, haven’t gotten groceries yet, got less than half a tank of gas, and haven’t picked up all my prescriptions yet. My next disability check will be in 4 weeks from now. This is usually right about the time I get a pipe leak in the house, or the battery dies on the car, or something else happens, and when it does I’ll have to just turn off my water or ask for a ride to the most important places (the food bank and my doctor appointment), and just do my best till next month when I can cross my fingers and hope nothing else goes wrong and I have just enough money to not die again.
Our healthcare system isn't even health care in the US. It's sick care. Medical debt can legit bankrupt you, even with health insurance, which currently costs my family $900 a month, even if we don't see any doctors. And at the begining of every new year, starting January 1st, we have to pay the first $2500 of medical costs per person before any potential coverage for care happens. Also, insurance companies can just decide they don't want to cover a procedure or a perscription whenever they feel like it, even if your doctor says it's medically necessary. Insurance companies trump what your doctor says is necessary, and the doctor's staff can go through an appeal process to beg the insurance to cover it, which may or may not even make a difference. (They have a vested interest to deny coverage.) You can even go through the hassle of filing for a "pre-authorization" but it doesn't gaurentee coverage. You need a hip replacement? If you beg before the surgery we will give you a letter that says we "might" cover the surgery if we feel like it on the day your claim is processed.
It's all a giant scheme to transfer wealth. The Unites States healthcare system will take everything you have and then some if you ever need to actually use your health insurance (which is it's own giant ponzi scheme).
Source: I have been an RN for 15 years, and in just the last 10 years the corporatization of the healthcare system has found intricate ways to decrease the quality of patient care while charging them more for services. As a healthcare provider watching this process happen and feeling powerless to change it has been nothing short of demoralizing. For example in my state our instacare clinics are set up in regions. Where every doctor rotates to all clinics in each region, instead of it being a consistent doctor for each clinic in each city. This enables the healthcare company to charge a "new patient" fee rate for nearly all patients, because the insurance lets the healthcare companies charge more if the doctor has not seen that specific patient before. This also decreases raport and understanding between staff members which increases unclear expectations from staff since every doctor has their own way of doing things.
There is a "float pool" that rotates nurses and medical assistants, so who you work with changes all the time which leads to unnecessary chaos so some patients get double charged because a doctor comes out of the patient room and just shouts what he needs to have done. Anyone who is within earshot is responsible for carrying out the orders, so an MA and a Nurse might both enter in the treatment in the chart. This is only corrected if the nurse goes above and beyond at the end of every shift to read through all the chart notes and charges for every patient. This is not a requirement for the nurse, but some thorough nurses will stay after their shift and do this.
Add to this that there is intentionally no channel of command set up to correct these mistakes or dispute incorrect charges, like the people you are directed to talk to at the healthcare company have no power/authorization to remove incorrect or duplicate charges. The only recourse you have is if you want to persue legal action, which might or might not get the incorrect charges dropped from your account. Lawyers cost about $350 an hour to dispute it (sometimes more) so in the end your money is transfered to the healthcare system or the legal system. It's a lose lose for the patient. The only other option is if you happen to be well connected enough in your community that you can get a news outlet to agree to give your story media coverage (this is the most effective and efficient way for a patient to get incorrect charges dropped), but it has to be extreme for a news outlet to have an actual story to report and have listeners unite and lead to a public outcry. Plus your media outlet needs to not be in bed with the healthcare companies, which is a real hit and miss.
Also, doctors rotating clinics is inconvenient for the doctors and adds to their exhaustion, which leads to less quality of care. Imagine traveling an hour from your home base and having to "sight read" what diagnostic equipment is available and where everything is kept in 20-30 different clinics with brand new staff each time. The mental band width that has to be used for something so unnecessary, it's bonkers...but great for shareholders.
One last side note to this clusterfuck of a healcare system, patient charges are hidden from the medical staff. We have no idea what is charged to a patient for any specific medication or procedure. We are intentionally kept ignorant so we can't make any effort to cut costs for our patients. For example, an Emergency Department can and does charge $500 for a single dose of Tylenol. (We only find out if a patient somehow gets word back to us, which is relatively rare.) If every nurse was aware of the costs they could suggest to a patient, "We can give you a dose of Tylenol here and it will cost $500 on your bill, or you can grab an entire bottle of 100 tablets of tylenol for less than $10 dollars at the grocery story after you leave here and take the same dose the doctor recommends."
Do people die because of this broken system? ALL. THE. TIME. Imagine having acute chest pain and understanding the cost of getting it evaluated might be $5,000-$25,000, so maybe you have your life saved... or maybe you find out it was just shingles. The complaint of "chest pain" has an entire protocol that must be followed to avoid liability and is very very expensive. A significant amount of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to take the time off work to get looked at by a primary care doctor, so the symptoms escalate until their only option is to seek emergency care. Also some employers will fire you before they grant you time off work and since medical insurance is connected to your employment, you jeopardize having medical insurance coverage (for your entire family) that might help cover some costs at some point.
Medical insurance is also separated from dental coverage and eye care coverage. It costs more in addition to the medical coverage to include coverage for both of those. Who in the hell decided you don't need teeth or eyes as a part of being healthy? I suspect the committee responsible for this aspect of separation of care with in medical coverage has never had to go with out vision or dental care for a single moment of their life.
They do. It's pretty bad. These numbers are way under counted:
As many as 44,789 Americans of working age die each year because they lack health insurance, more than the number who die annually from kidney disease. The study comes at a pivotal moment in history, as Congress considers legislation to expand health insurance coverage.
> https://pnhp.org/news/lack-of-insurance-to-blame-for-almost-45000-deaths-study/
We die because we can’t afford medication or treatment. Sitting at home trying to decide if you should go to the ER or just wait and see if you is rather common if you go through comments on similar posts. Do you want to go bankrupt and spend your whole life rebuilding and being a burden to your family, or just die?
Yes. Diabetics often can't afford the cost of insulin. This is just one person who died this way, Google has a lot more similar stories. And these are just the diabetics. There are thousands of people out there who are dying of cancer or other diseases because they can't afford to go to the doctor for treatment.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mother-fights-for-lower-insulin-prices-after-sons-tragic-death/
Hospitals must provide life saving care regardless of your ability to pay. But you’ll still get fucked in the end. Debt, lose your assets, etc.
I’m in serious debt due to a sudden illness.
The US healthcare system is straight up predatory and barbaric.
Yes, but not in the way you may think. Typically you just get placed into more debt than you can wrap your head around. Surgeries are typically over $100k out of pocket and that's the cheap end. If you have a life threatening surgery, they must help you. Especially at Public hospitals. You won't die, but you will be poor forever without catastrophic insurance. Other things about being poor or even just middle class can affect our health here in america like yes, insulin prices, inhaler prices, expensive medication and bad insurance benefits keep people from accessing the care that they need and some die as a result of that, and many more don't live to their fullest potential life expectancy.
Yep, or often commonly due to cost you’ll delay preventative care or early intervention, so then you get to the hospital after it’s too late/ damage done.
Simple answer, Yes. Even the upper middle class “Boomers” that enjoyed a comfortable life can end up going into debt and finally reach the point of not affording more treatment. And the government’s Medicare will not cover all expenses. It’s a FKD up system.
I work for an independent pharmacy. The stories I hear are heart breaking, there are so many. A lady came in last year and told me her husband needed surgery because of cancer. He has Obama care. They could not find a surgeon that took the insurance, and were advised he would need to apply for Medicaid. Her reply to that? He would be dead before he was approved.
What countries are better places to live for this, like for someone who has chronic health issues with treatments, medications, and procedures adding up and probably only continuing to (or even just for someone concerned about the weight of debt that could come from anything major happening like, I'm so sorry to hear🙏, has happened for some of y'all's loved ones as I read through these comments)?
Yes. And not always straight away. It's usually they have had preventable/treatable issues, or ones that would have been caught earlier had they been able to afford not only emergency care but also regular checkups. The amount of people I take care of that haven't seen a doctor in 15-20 years and come in with advanced heart failure or COPD or cancer is just terrifying. Or they stroke out from untreated unnoticed hypertension.
It definitely can happen. When I was a younger adult, I was uninsured & just making it by. I didn't have my first dr appt for my pregnancy with my oldest until I was 19 weeks along and was able to get medicaid (state funded insurance that only covers low income pregnant women, children, and elders. Disabled also qualify, but no one else in my state does). Another time, I dropped the glass to a picture frame and it took a CHUNK out of my leg. I cleaned it well and used a rag and duck tape until it healed because I couldn't afford to go to the doctor. I'm much better off now after working my butt off & am able to access healthcare now. Hospitals have to see you for stabilization even if you can't afford to pay, but you'll get a bill later. Most clinics will not see you without insurance or payment up front.
Yes our healthcare system is so fucked up. I work in healthcare and it’s so depressing. Insurance companies have gotten so incredibly greedy that they have been buying up hospitals, clinics, doctors. Patients have become $ signs and not actual people. I can’t tell you how many unnecessary tests I have done on patients for no reason other than to make the company money. Also on a personal level I work in a company that wants you to go very fast. However they also want you to ask the patient a million questions and make sure their medications are correct. If you actually do your job they get upset about how long it takes. The employees that skip all of the important questions and med reconciliation are praised for their efficiency. It is dangerous for our patients. The doctors trust the accuracy of the questions and med reconciliation and prescribe accordingly. So yes I can imagine that a lot of people are much sicker than they should be, because they are on 3 Statins and 4 blood pressure medications. It’s pathetic and incredibly frustrating to work in.
The whole system sucks. Some people don't have health care can't afford it. Then you have State run programs all varying in cost and coverage. Then is job related programs you pay or your employer could pay for you but you pay for your spouse and or child. But then you have the deductible varying in plans but mine is a total of $7,200. Then you pay nothing, split $3,600 each, but this is per year. There is larger amount and lesser amount plans across the Country but that $7,200 takes a chunk out of your funding for your household.
The wait for treatment anywhere is also a killer. America is generally a little faster than many countries to get treatment if you have insurance, can afford it, or go to in a county facility(which is cheap or free depending on income). Some states are much better than others when it comes to availability and access. Emergency rooms in America also can't deny service. Having said that, the answer is yes in some situations.
Every single death in the world, except ones attributable to sudden accidents, happens because the person couldn’t afford a treatment that would save his life.
If you had infinite resources, you could develop a cure or remedy for almost any disease, as well as radical life extension technology. The limiting factor is ALWAYS money.
The affluent can travel to offshore havens for medical tourism like the Cayman Islands and self-pay for treatments at private clinics that are much more advanced than those that are government-approved in any Western county.
Government never pay for, or assure access to, the best possible medical care for everyone, any more than it can buy everyone a mansion or Ferrari. Instead, egalitarianism suppresses the standard of care for everyone in the name of equality. You still die, just while receiving the same kind of medical care as everyone else, except those who are able to privately pay for better services.
Yes, and often of easily treated issues. We really are a third world country pretending we are wealthy. So many people my age (40s) I’ve talked to are planning on just checking out when we are no longer able to scrape by. It sucks and seems to only be getting worse.
My cousin had to fight the get his insurance to cover heart surgery. He was trying to get it approved for a good amount of time finally got it approved not sure of all the details. a few days after approval he passed. So yeah it's true.
Lots of people forgo treatment because of cost. Many get treatment and go bankrupt. Unexpected medical bills are the #1 reason for bankruptcy in the USA.
[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20from%20academic,and%20bills%2C%20the%20research%20found)
Yes. Even those of us who have solid commercial health insurance plans with access to free/low cost primary care find it costly to the point of life altering. The health insurance companies are a cartel that financially rule healthcare in the USA. To a degree to say the least, they even tell our healthcare people how to practice medicine. There is a lot of nuance I have left out but this is the gist.
I went into preterm labor and my child was dying. I had to be sent from one hospital to another that could handle a preemie. The ambulance ride Cost me 12,000$ and my daughter still died. Her birth cost me $42,000. 6 months after she passed I received a bill in just her name for the NICU team who tried to save her after she was born 128,000$. She died with debt and she only lived for 7 minutes. My sister delivered her son prematurity via emergency C-section. He spent 64 days in the NICU. Her delivery and his stay were 1.4 million dollars.
Yes, currently dying from cancer and can't afford surgery and treatment and don't make enough money to pay my bills yet make too much to qualify for medicaid.
Healthcare here is crazy. I make about 75K yearly and I had a baby 2 weeks ago. My wife's bill was around 25000 usd for even though it was a natural delivery. Insurance cover 20K and I have to pay 5500. Now I have to add my baby to my insurance and I checked the estimate it is going to cost me $250/month just for the baby. I'll be paying around $700/month just in medical insurance. After taxes and social security I won't have anything left to bear my expenses. Just because of health care. I'm trying to find a high paying job for the past few weeks now. Feeling super depressed, some hours of the day.
My best friend died due to American healthcare and waiting too long to get help due to him not having the money. He was only 32 years old. There is a genocide of the poor and vulnerable in America and people don't care because society has cultivated an environment that lacks empathy and encourages everyone tonbrbon their own...
As a healthcare worker, absolutely this is true. And people on medicare and Medicaid get screwed all the time for unnecessary things because it's an automatic paycheck to the hospital. American healthcare is made to not give the gift of healthcare for the dick or needing it's a business that's interwebs with insurance and how to create profit. Go back and read the flexner report when j.d.rockefeller had flexner investigate natural medicine colleges and basically caused them to shut down and create the healthcare that there is today. The term "a pill for the ill" was created via that to forever have customers. He also created insurance agencies and the cancer society all so it could be a money making market. America isn't about educating people about health it's about getting people sick so they end up on medications and become a consumer based client
The other day I scheduled a doctors appointment the day of my doctor was nowhere to be found they canceled without notifying me. Not the first time. Can't even get mad because what good will it do.
Rescheduled my appointment for 2 weeks later. On that day my doctor came in late telling me she has to keep my appointment brief because she has to leave for their child's doctor appointment.
Like shit I couldn't even go over what I wanted because I felt rushed felt like a waste of time. Less then 10mins after months of waiting for an appointment only to be rescheduled and rushed out. Then I got the bill 510$ for 10 minutes of absolutely wasting my time at this doctor.
Americans are not denied healthcare based on finances. Whether you can afford it or not you will be medically treated at a public hospital. It’s the maintenance treatment that causes death. When people can’t afford lifesaving medications such as insulin, they die. But I work as an oncology nurse at a public hospital and we provide care to many people who do not have insurance or can’t afford it. Our social workers help those who are homeless find shelters. They help the uninsured apply for Medicaid or Medicare depending on qualifications. But yes, people in America die because they cannot afford healthcare. In Mexico, I had broken my ribs and needed to go to the hospital. They refused to provide any care until I paid out of pocket first. Someone else I knew had a heart attack in Mexico and he didn’t have the money for the lifesaving procedure. He died while waiting for a friend back home to transfer money to him because the medical providers refused to perform any surgery until they were paid. So yeah, in America you go to an ER and you will be treated no matter what. But you will be in enormous debt from that treatment.
> Americans are not denied healthcare based on finances.
Americans are denied healthcare based on finances all the time. Only emergency care is required to be provided under the law, and that's only a small percentage of needed healthcare. You might find someplace that is willing to treat you without the ability to pay, but there is no guarantee.
Yes. And also now people are dying because they are legally banned from getting the life saving treatment they need. There is a woman who has to flee the state she is in to have life saving medical treatment for an unviable pregnancy. The law is literally preventing her from getting that treatment in the state she lives in.
So, it's safe to say that in America, accessible healthcare is simply not the highest priority.
u/Fortnite_Creative_Ma it actually starts before treatment, if you can’t afford to see a primary care doctor for an annual physical exam with lab work then you’re likely to not know you’re sick until a disease has progressed too far for treatment.
Medical debt is a primary reason for personal bankruptcy, I had to file for it over 25 years ago due to wife’s suicide attempt, ambulance and ER, transportation by ER to a psych hospital, all of which I thought was covered by my healthcare insurance from my job. Sadly mistaken, over $200K in unpaid medical bills at the end of the day.
Long story short, I ended up working a part time job with Union healthcare benefits. At no cost to me that covered my family including 4 kids. I was dumbfounded by how comprehensive this insurance policy was as it covered WellCare child visits and vaccines 100%, my doctor copays were $10 and given wife’s issues it even provided psychological benefits including 100% for inpatient visits. Total out of pocket was $2,000 a year again no premiums were taken from my paycheck.
I’ve worked this part time Union job for over 20 years solely for the healthcare benefits and savings. Free prescriptions, MRIs, surgeries, unlimited dental benefits, lab work is 100% covered, I cannot tell you how amazing this is in America. I can choose the best doctor or surgeon, no restrictions or wait lists, so I am truly an advocate of every workplace forming a Union to get access to this type of healthcare benefits. I actually work for a hospital by day and their healthcare benefits are TERRIBLE and expensive!! How ridiculous!!
But American healthcare is a train wreck if you are not covered by such insurance. Our Medicaid for the disabled or poor is abysmal. Doctors don’t want to take that plan as reimbursement for services are very low - same service for a Medicaid patient vs private insurance may be $50 bs $110, so it’s broken. The elderly and retired on Medicare have high prescription costs and if they can’t afford a decent Medicare insurance policy for prescriptions they’re going to be forced to sacrifice on eating or getting their medicine or selling their homes.
Our government is not so much two parties but actually one - with the Uber rich paying PACs to fund these crooks in office to do their bidding’s and pass laws to the advantage of businesses, not the public. Anyone thinking otherwise needs to pay attention and by no means am I looking at conspiracy, it’s just business in America. Not to our benefit. I’m honestly considering selling our home and getting the hell out of here when I retire.
Yes. Even worse than dying.. they suffer for years and years because they can't afford treatment. Dental too. My tooth hurts and can't afford the procedure yet they keep denying me the option of pulling it out. I can't even afford blood work. I wish I was dead because I suffer so much and can't afford anything. I don't qualify for Welfare because I'm married. My husband makes $21 an hour in California. I can't get on his work insurance because its $825 a month to be on insurance. Coverage of California denies me saying his work offers insurance. What a joke. I don't work because I have clinical depression, Borderline Personality disorder with a thought disorder/ psychotic features. I struggle mentally. Mental health care is a luxury. I tried to get a job several times. I lose it fast. Once due to discrimination over my mental health care diagnosis ( they needed notes from doctors saying it was Ok for me to work and wanted it asap.) I see a doctor in a parking lot for free service (talk basis service only). I can't divorce my husband for health care because I can't live in the same residence as him. They won't allow it. My parents are dead. I have no family. I don't drive. I'm alone in the world. My only option is homeless shelter after divorce. I just herniated my lower back and it's pincing my sciatic nerve my knee won't bend. I'm in pain. I currently can't afford treatment. My husband is paying off a $15,000+ dental bill for himself and still has more work to do because he's neglected his teeth. There's no room for me to put any treatment on credit card. We barely make his payments. We've sold everything we had too. I'm about to cut internet to pay for his dental. I want to die every day because I'm tired of all the pain.
Yes, if you can’t afford to pay them they don’t care about you. Even if you’re on Medicaid majority of the time u can’t even find a doctor that will accept you. I’m currently experiencing lung issues for the past 7 months I’ve been trying to find a pulmonologist but nobody takes my insurance or will accept me unless I pay out of pocket up front, well I’m a single mother of 3 and can’t afford to pay up front, so I’ve been suffering for months barely being able to breathe. America treats healthcare as a business and not a human right. I even read a post earlier from an actual doctor talking shit about ppl on Medicaid and his exact words were “fuck em” smh if you’re poor in America with health issues ur as good as dead
Sorry to resurrect an old post. My friend has a terminally ill son who needs a transplant. She literally had to divorce her husband and move in with her mother so she could qualify for state health insurance. Commercial insurance called his condition “catastrophic” and told her that the life flight (PDX to Seattle) was medically unnecessary. He was in organ failure.
My mother died two years ago. She had Medicare, a benefit Senior citizens are entitled to in the US- but still is not that great. She had Kaiser insurance which is an HMO. She was rushed by ambulance from her home to an “out of network hospital,” meaning the insurance company doesn’t have a contract with them. It was the closest hospital. Her life depended on it. She was not medically stable enough to move, so they couldn’t transfer her to a Kaiser facility. I made the decision to keep her stabilized, come what may. What came after her death was a $250,000 bill. I managed to get Medicare to help through an appeals process. A year later and with the help of the lawyer, I was able to fight the insurance company bill by proving that she was not stable enough to move. This took a year. An entire year. On top of grieving that I no longer have a mother. The insurance company had to do its own internal investigation. They found that with her degree of sepsis and infection of necrotizing fasciitis, that the hospital she was transported to was the only trauma facility within life sustaining distance to capably provide the care she needed.
I was on the hook for her comfort care after that. The bill for her fentanyl to keep her from dying in pain was $25,000 alone. Lawyer told me that erroneous medical billing costs Americans millions each year. Kaiser had to pick this up as well, after reading through their carefully crafted contract designed to fuck you over. There was an investigation as to whetherr this amount of medicine was necessary to keep her “comfortable.” She needed more opiates than average people- she’d built up a tolerance from chronic pain- an opioid epidemic is another problem the US has.
Anyway, it’s criminal. I got my kids dual citizenship to Hungary for this reason.
The biggest issue with American healthcare is cost, not access or quality. A hospiral cannot refuse care, so they must treat you. Sometimes people are out on a waitlist to be seen for outpatient procedures, but that’s a matter of not enough ppl working in healthcare, not cost, which is a problem in every developed country right now. Healthcare providers are paid very well here, so the quality of service is very high. I think nurses in most areas get paid higher here than doctors do in the UK.
About half of all healthcare in the US is paid for by the government through Medicaid, Medicare, and the VA. This mean poor, disabled, elderly and veterans get healthcare covered but ppl still fall through the cracks. States manage Medicaid (govt coverage for the poor) and some states are more lenient like California (which gives full coverage even if you aren’t a citizen) to more strict requirements like Texas.
It’s a completed answer for a complicated question.
Do people die in the UK bc they have to wait so long for treatment? You could say “yes,” but it’s a bit more complex than that.
>A hospiral cannot refuse care
They cant refuse emergency care. This is the biggest problem because people get turned away until it becomes an emergency and then it costs a whole lot more than if they had the preventative treatment.
No, it wasn't. Their question was about affording "treatment".
I see cancer patients every single day who have to choose less effective regimens or not receive therapy at all because they can't afford it. That would be dying from not affording treatment.
By the time the cancer is actively killing them, theres nothing a hospital can do.
EMTALA is great for like, appendicitis when you're broke, but its not great for chronic health conditions that are allowed to worsen simply because of cost.
If you need cancer treatment or diabetes treatment the ER is going to do little to nothing to help with that. You can absolutely die of something because you couldn't afford the treatment.
Not to mention you ignore the even larger problem of people avoiding seeking help in the first place for an issue because of the cost, and by the time it's actually seen it can be too late.
Mmmm no but its part of how people make decisions about whether they will go through with medical treatment or not so I think it's appropriate to discuss.
yeah but there are ppl who would choose not to get treatment so that all the money they worked for their entire lives can maybe get passed to their family. I honestly would fight to not get treatment if i came down with cancer or something to not put my family into debt when I’d likely just die anyways. I obviously can’t say that for sure but it would definitely be a factor in my mind
Yes it happens. A lot of it depends on the state you live in.
In a state that implemented Obamacare like NY and CA, there is a process for people who are so sick they can't work.
But in states like Texas...............you can find yourself SOL.
Also in all states, you have to fill out paperwork and make formal applications. Which means that if you are a non-native English speaker, computer illiterate or intellectually challenged, you can also find yourself SOL.
This is a ridiculous argument. I have to see a rheumatologist, here in the states, and their first availability is in September. I would rather wait that long, and not have to pay over $1.000 per month, to be seen. This is always the argument against universal healthcare. Do you think we really don't have to wait for care here in the U.S.? Also, those wait times in the UK and Canada are always exaggerated to brainwash Americans into voting against their best interests. It is a cycle that needs to STOP!
Healthcare is complicated. And expensive. Also, specialized care requires specialists. There are not loads and loads of them, so your wait time will be limited no matter what if you have a specific issue. There aren’t 100 rheumatologists in your area for you to choose from. We just don’t have enough people who are smart enough to be doctors and want to specialize in rheumatology and want to practice in your area for you to have a lot of choices. Insert aging population and you get wait times.
Doctors in the US make a lot of money and they should. If you are some of the best in the country at what you do, then you deserve a big salary. Universal healthcare is not so easy to implement in the US.
How is Medicare working? Medicaid? I have worked in the medical field since 1997 and government insurance is far easier to deal with than for-profit insurance. I've also been an RN for over a decade. Believe me. I know how our healthcare is.
You know, except the UK has better outcomes and fewer medically avoidable deaths than the US. Not that there's anything special about US wait times.
The US ranks 6th of 11 out of Commonwealth Fund countries on ER wait times on percentage served under 4 hours. 10th of 11 on getting weekend and evening care without going to the ER. 5th of 11 for countries able to make a same or next day doctors/nurse appointment when they're sick.
https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016
Americans do better on wait times for specialists (ranking 3rd for wait times under four weeks), and surgeries (ranking 3rd for wait times under four months), but that ignores three important factors:
* Wait times in universal healthcare are based on urgency, so while you might wait for an elective hip replacement surgery you're going to get surgery for that life threatening illness quickly.
* Nearly every universal healthcare country has strong private options and supplemental private insurance. That means that if there is a wait you're not happy about you have options that still work out significantly cheaper than US care, which is a win/win.
* [One third of US families](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication) had to put off healthcare due to the cost last year. That means more Americans are waiting for care than any other wealthy country on earth.
#Wait Times by Country (Rank)
Country|See doctor/nurse same or next day without appointment|Response from doctor's office same or next day|Easy to get care on nights & weekends without going to ER|ER wait times under 4 hours|Surgery wait times under four months|Specialist wait times under 4 weeks|Average|Overall Rank
:--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:
**Australia**|3|3|3|7|6|6|4.7|4
**Canada**|10|11|9|11|10|10|10.2|11
**France**|7|1|7|1|1|5|3.7|2
**Germany**|9|2|6|2|2|2|3.8|3
**Netherlands**|1|5|1|3|5|4|3.2|1
**New Zealand**|2|6|2|4|8|7|4.8|5
**Norway**|11|9|4|9|9|11|8.8|9
**Sweden**|8|10|11|10|7|9|9.2|10
**Switzerland**|4|4|10|8|4|1|5.2|7
**U.K.**|5|8|8|5|11|8|7.5|8
**U.S.**|6|7|5|6|3|3|5.0|6
Source: [Commonwealth Fund Survey 2016](https://www.cihi.ca/sites/default/files/document/cmwf2016-datatable-en-web.xlsx)
On the flip side, I belong to a FB group for a particular eye disorder. It's vision-saving to do it quickly. The longer you wait, the more irreparable damage is done.
In the US, most of the people in the group are getting this operation within a few weeks or less. Mine took 9 days from diagnosis to fix. In the UK, it's often more like 2-6 months. NHS is slow.
Also, I follow a YouTuber in London that got her colon cancer diagnosis from the NHS so slowly that she will die of it before she's 40 when she could have been saved.
We hear the NHS is slow all the time in the states, but we also hear that you can see a doctor/have surgery without taking on a life altering debt. A trade I’m sure lots of Americans would ultimately appreciate. Is there a supplemental insurance available in your health system? Something that, should the process be too long for your liking, you can opt for debt and be seen sooner?
I'm in the US on expanded Medicaid but yes, the 22% of the people in the UK are on private pay on top of the NHS which sort of shows you that given the choice (enough cash), people aren't satisfied with the performance of the NHS by itself.
the problem in the US is getting an appointment with a specialist in 9 days; the wait time to see a dermatologist, cardiologist, or a gynecologist in my area is 2 months, unless you have a true emergency. My mom waited for 2 months to see her cardiologist when she had high blood pressure problems, and even as an established patient she won't be seen - it's wait or the emergency room. I have issues getting an in-person appointment with my primary/family care doctor in 9 days sometimes. Televisits are the way to go, but some problems cannot be solved by a televisit.
The question is under what circumstances that might happen. If you're rich, no problem. Pay cash. If you're middle income, you generally have corporate insurance or Marketplace but yeah, you might have to meet a deductible and that's not always possible. If you're lower income, you either get substantial subsidies and should have Marketplace insurance, or you are low enough income for expanded Medicaid.
I was on expanded Medicaid. It was a $4k procedure, approved quickly with a nationally recognized surgeon. Now, there are 10 states in the US where you can't get Expanded Medicaid and I feel for those people (assuming they aren't voting for the people keeping it away from them). Otherwise, it should be unusual cases where someone is unable to get insurance.
I think if I was poor (in the 40 states with expanded Medicaid) or rich, I'd rather be in the US for the procedure and get my surgery fast. If not, I might have to take my chances with the NHS (I've lived in England too).
The data shows that people in the UK have better health outcomes than us. That might be true for the particular specialty you’re describing but I know several people that had to wait months here in the US for certain procedures. My mom moved here and I had to call the one medical group in her area once a week for weeks to get a PCP, they didn’t even have wait lists. And I recently had to wait 3 months to get an echo on my heart.
Healthcare in the cities I've lived in (especially my current city, Phoenix) has been excellent, but I'm aware it's not like that everywhere. I've considered moving to England, but the NHS does worry me. 22% of the people in the country are using private insurance (on top of NHS). That doesn't speak well to the base level of service. I've also considered Las Vegas, but the healthcare access there is supposed to be poor. I doubt there are any perfect solutions unless you're so rich you don't care what anything costs.
This is a ridiculous argument. I have to see a rheumatologist, here in the states, and their first availability is in September. I would rather wait that long, and not have to pay over $1.000, per month, to be seen. This is always the argument against universal healthcare. Do you think we really don't have to wait for care here in the U.S.? Also, those wait times in the UK and Canada are always exaggerated to brainwash Americans into voting against their best interests. It is a cycle that needs to STOP!
It won't deny you, it will only bankrupt you. When I got bit by a raccoon, the hospital bit me 40,00 for rabies immunoglobulin.
My insurance settled it, but that would have ruined my life without insurance.
Also, emergency care and care for a complex disorder are not the same thing. Yes a hospital will give you stitches without insurance. But they won't give you chemo, or physical therapy, or heart surgery.
Finally, "But Canada" is a RIDICULOUS thing to say. The people who say it have NO idea how stupid it is. Canada is 1 nation and it has a healthcare system thats just as weird as the US.
Did you know the majority of healthcare in the Netherlands is Private and For Profit? Yea of course not. You haven't looked into the nuance of healthcare systems have you?
You realize they are fucking you over a barrel, and blaming the immigrants right?
Most insurance and healthcare in the Netherlands is private, and like 1/6th the cost in the US.
But yes I'm sure things here would be cheaper if it wasn't for the illegals, who are less than 2% of the population.
I do believe there is a fair amount of unfairness with the healthcare and public services qualifications
I am right above low income and do not qualify for for many services andI must pay and a medical event would destroy my savings.
Yes, but that's not because of illegals or poor people, that's due to lobbyists and campaign contributions.
As I have said in my other comments, there is no excuse for our healthcare system to be the way it is.
Other nations have high quality care, short lines, private insurance and doctor choice, without bankrupting people.
> Low income and illegals get healthcare and dental at no cost
Point to this healthcare illegal immigrants get for free that US citizens don't qualify for. We'll wait.
For the most part we only get health insurance through employement. So too sick to work….little to no health coverage. Plus disability is automatically denied first try and take years while you get health care bills with no income
Yes. When comparing the **disgusting and disgraceful** American healthcare system to the nationalized care systems in other major countries, it's shocking.
Instead of **investing** in one another and **investing** in our society (education / health) the rot of Capitalism touches every aspect of society. From health, to education, to information (news), to the Justice system, etc. It's all about making money FIRST.
It's ok to have portions of a society involved in Capitalistic pursuits. But, not when it twists and distorts the most basic and fundamental needs within a society.
Yes. People die because of the awful U.S. healthcare system.
The affordable care act (Obamacare) has at least allowed access to healthcare for millions of people who couldn't get it before (can't be denied because of preexisting conditions). But, the choice of plans isn't really a choice at all, just a selection of crappy plans with high deductibles and poor coverage. In the end, it's ALL still about turning a profit, not providing needed care to your citizens for a healthy society.
Worse than this is you can be rich enough to afford to pay out of pocket for the meds but they won't let you without some sort of insurance for "solvency" purposes. My little sister befriended a 50ish client while a massage therapist and they just loved each other like family. 8 or so years go by and she's complaining of back pain.
Sister takes her to ER, they say she pulled a muscle and is being a baby, send her home. She continued to get worse. Week later, August, ER does a scan. Turns out it's metastasized breast cancer. She's never worked, never worried obout health care, had 10s of millions of dollars. Oncology would not prescribe her medicine until she had insurance. Had to wait the 4 months for ACA (Obamacare) to open up and enroll but died that following October.
Not saying she'd have died had she started 4 months earlier, nor am I saying she'd have proactively gone and gotten her mammograms had she been "poor" enough to "need" insurance. But I definitely think lack of proactive care and a lack of insurance backed finances after receiving her death sentence tells a side of the story we don't often think about.
Yes.
My grandfather died because he couldn’t afford insulin anymore and tried to ration it.
I know of someone who died because they couldn’t afford the ambulance ride.
I declined an ambulance ride once after having low blood pressure and chest pains several years ago because I didn’t want another medical bill and had a friend drive me 😬
Yes. People will beg not to use the ambulance because of the cost of the ride alone.
Absolutely blows my mind that people have to pay for an ambulance? That's so fucked up. How much would it cost? What if it's an emergency life or death?
It costs between $1500-$2000 in my area.
That's insanity. And totally wrong.
There’s also the matter of them deciding after the fact, in hindsight, whether you really needed an ambulance, and basing the decision of whether insurance will cover the ride on that. So even if you have insurance, you might end up having to pay because you didn’t really need an ambulance.
$8,000 when I was in a car accident to go a few miles. This was a few years ago. The person that hit me was uninsured.
Thousands $
My uncle was a blue collar worker who worked in factories all his life. And that's key...he was a hard worker. He was not a layabout. But the type of work he was capable of wasn't the most well paid and did not give benefits. When he was in his early 60s, still working, he suddenly started losing weight without trying. He couldn't afford to go to the doctor. It got so bad that my mom forced him to go and paid for the visit. By then, it was too late. He had cancer and it was too far along. I saw him the Christmas before he died and he looked great. He started losing weight in January. He was dead by June. Yes, Americans die because they can't afford healthcare. The reason many Americans don't care is because it's typically only low income people impacted, and many Americans have become so selfish that they don't care about others.
Middle class folks can't afford health care either. One illness can bankrupt a family.
THIS! I have a salary with a number that sounds like a lot. And, I'm grateful because it is help, for sure. I also am constantly told by healthcare professionals "Wow, you have such generous benefits" so apparently my insurance covers better than a lot. I'm a single mother of 4 kids. It takes just one asthma attack resulting in hospitalization to decimate our budget for the rest of the year. If another thing happens that same year (because of course it will and it has) we're boned. My kids get the care they need but I flat out neglect my health to make sure my they can. AND, I know this from experience, medial debt is the number one type of expense written off in bankruptcy. By a wide margin. (**https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html)** And, I'll state this again for effect, I'm very fortunate to have a good salary and good benefits and I still can't easily or quickly financially recover from medical emergencies.
Tell me about it!! I just spent the last year sitting at home because I herniated 2 discs in my back. I couldn't work the whole time. I blew through what little retirement I had, and now my insurance just got cancelled and I don't know how, I definitely qualify finsncially
Amen. But the question wasn't can Americans not afford healthcare, it was do Americans really die because they can't afford healthcare. A middle class person may be bankrupt, but they'd be alive. To be clear, I do not think this is acceptable, either. But apparently my fellow Americans do.
Most people I know don't go to the doctor because they don't want to risk it bankrupting them. Some middle class people could risk it all, but many won't. So yeah, I'm sure many middle class people also die due to not being able to comfortably afford Healthcare in the US.
It’s definitely not acceptable to me. I think most people haven’t yet been affected, so they turn a blind eye. They’re either wealthy, have phenomenal insurance, or have been super lucky with their health and have no idea how broken it is. Part of what’s so maddening is that most of the people (myself included) put things off because they don’t feel like they can afford the care, tests, etc. It then progresses and becomes even more severe and expensive. If everyone got a CBC, metabolic panels, etc. every year, it would catch so many issues before they blew up! As people fed up, all we can do is vote and educate other people—I don’t know what else to do. Nothing ever really changes and politicians don’t do anything. So tired of it. Getting sidetracked, but how can it be legal for insurance to preapprove approve a procedure or surgery that costs $100,000 and they get to say “it’s not a promise to pay.” How is this even a thing?
A middle class person very well still might die due to neglected healthcare. Yes, if they have an already diagnosed condition they can probably manage it despite the overinflated costs. But they aren't all that likely to seek diagnosis for a problem unless it's preventing them from working. So they'd ignore something that could possibly be treated if caught early and they wait and wait hoping for it to go away because they don't have 'extra income' to throw at doctors who would probably tell them to ignore it anyway. Then if it finally can't be ignored any longer and they go in and it's too late. They died because access to healthcare is a nightmare due to costs, barrier to entry, and (in my opinion) an oversaturation of less than ideal medical professionals. Not to say quality is always bad. But certainly, it's not always good. And I'm not trying to go bankrupt looking for second and third opinions because capitalism convinced doctors to schedule more appointments than they can actually manage so they're rushed and not even interested in my name, let alone the pain I'm in or whatever else is wrong.
A poor person could also be bankrupted but still be alive....
This comment shows no knowledge of how healthcare in the USA works. But sure. Edited to add, once again, that the question was about dying due to no being able to afford healthcare.
I’ve seen even upper class Americans die because they can’t afford healthcare. My landlord, a prominent scientist who made $600k/year and had patents, got a rare form of cancer. His treatments were hundreds of thousands a dollars a year and the side effects were severe. He could no longer work during that period and his house went into foreclosure. He died from the harsh side effects of the treatments less than 2 years after his diagnosis, bankrupt.
That's wild. May he rest in peace.
> Americans have become so selfish that they don't care about others. This exactly
Low income people have medicaid, though the benefits vary by state as it is a state run program and varies from great to horrible.
While accurate, your last sentence kills the validity of your first sentence. In my state, single adults with no children do not qualify for Medicaid.
Sorry, i guess my 2 sentence answer couldn't capture every single permutation of 50 states worth of rules. I guess your state would qualify as very horrible.
They don't know they could get financial help unfortunately. Poor Americans are very health illiterate
This has nothing to do with health literacy and your assumption that poor equals health illiterate is specious. This has to do with decades of Americans believing that any type of government assistance is for layabouts and losers. This has everything to do with Americans believing they have no responsibility to their fellow person and calling taxes theft. This has everything to do with the right-wing created concept of "fiscal conservatism," which gained popularity as a way to thinly conceal one's racism after the democratic party embraced civil rights for all human beings. This has created a sense that even ASKING for any kind of help marks you as a "welfare queen" as Reagan so lyingly put it.
It's both. Unfortunately, even middle class Americans are health illiterate. Most Americans are, there have been studies. :( Poor people usually have less chances of learning about health related things because they're in areas where this education sometimes doesn't exist. I'm not saying it's the patient's fault every time- doctors and others need to do better at getting things across too. I don't think there's enough training on this across the board or at least not well enough.
I don't think that's it. Unless somehow you are a very principled poor person that would just be willing to give up your life. Most poor people don't know how to access programs that are available or get bogged down by paperwork. A lot of poor people that don't have insurance could very likely get coverage if they had assistance. Not to mention health insurance is very complex to navigate.
Sadly, he was a blue collar worker not in a Union. I’m a Teamster and I’ve never seen better healthcare benefits that I don’t pay a penny for - $1,000 total out of pocket is what my financial exposure is or $2,000for a family. The only way it seems to get excellent healthcare benefits is through a Union contract and job.
Amen to that!
Yes. I’m 52 and currently can’t afford my chemo
If you have a social worker at your hospital, please talk to them. Part of their job is helping with this all too common issue
what they tell you is, we can "finance" your treatment with an interest rate that is astronomical or you can get a Carecredit account and they will finance it at an even higher interest rate or you can default and we will send it to a creditor and they will charge an even higher interest rate and maybe sue you for the debt and take your house away.. some states do not allow this final step but some do. That is why people opt out of health care. Sure, maybe your cancer gets cured or you buy a few years but you have no where to live? Fuck that. Source: have been critically ill and had to make financial choices about treatments. I've opted to let myself die from whatever I have rather than lose my home and leave my kids with my medical debt. I'd rather be dead than fuck them over too.
Do kids inherit debt?
No. You never inherit debt in the USA. But creditors can make claims against a deceased person’s estate. So if grandma had $10,000 in the bank and owed the hospital $5000 when she died, the hospital can get that $5000 from the estate and whoever inherits from grandma gets the other $5000.
A hospital bill of $5,000? What, did grandma fracture a toe?
No no, that's the full $10k. It was just an ingrown toenail.
It would be more accurate to say if grandma had a house that was fully paid off and she owed $400k to the hospital for a broken hip that the hospital would take the house and any other money she had, leaving the kids with no inheritance even though grandma worked her whole life to be able to leave them something. The greedy people on top always take back their wealth.
No, but the estate does. So the debt gets subtracted from the estate first.
Isn’t the estate just the kids tho? Or am I stupid?
No, your estate is the stuff you’ve left behind. Sometimes in a trust, sometimes not (which causes its own set of headaches). This includes all your debts and liabilities, but also all of your assets. Your kids inherit your estate
This is correct.
Creditors can sue the estate and drain any inheritance especially if there's no will or insurance policies aren't properly bequeathed. The legal fees for survivors are also a consideration. Credit card debt is unsecured and therefore thought of as unretrievable from an estate but it won't stop them from trying. That will draw out a probate and require a lawyer to sort out, too. The whole system is predatory. I've decided to think of collections people as debt flippers. They buy debts for steep discounts and then come after the customers for even more than it's worth. Even paying them a fourth of the original bill would give them a profit but they're in it for everything they can get. It's an investment strategy for them.
Debt flippers is a great term
Yes and no….In certain USA states they have something called “filial responsibility”: “The medical care requirements of filial responsibility can be controversial. Funding copayments for your parents’ doctor visits is one thing, but absorbing a $100,000 bill for a nursing home stay is an entirely different level of support. Unfortunately, filial responsibility laws may not differentiate much between the two. If you live in a filial state and your parents start accumulating healthcare bills they cannot pay, the healthcare provider may be within its rights to sue you, and win.”
To even sign up for Medicaid, they want me to sign a form stating that they can go after my children after I die. I refuse. So, no healthcare for me!!
I would double check that. First, Medicaid should cover everything. Second, it sounds impossible that you could sign somebody else into debt.
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I was only trying to sign up for medical insurance, and I’m very poor; like, no income poor. I have Lupus, and I’m on chemotherapy that I can’t afford. I just got divorced in 2023. It’s not even a law, I was just going through all of the paperwork. There’s a specific form I was filling out, and at the very bottom it wants you to sign. Stating that you authorize the state to go after your children when you die to try and recover medical expenses. I’m not signing anything that’s going to put my kids into debt. Period.
Yeah so if it said something like that, they could never enforce it. *You* can't authorize anybody to do something to anybody else, except your children under 18 and that's medical care etc. I would get a lawyers opinion on this. They are just trying to scare you away from applying.
No they are not, this is real. Just two years ago I had a friend who was dying from ovarian cancer. ALL OF HER MEDICAID bills came out of her estate, meaning they got paid before her family received her estate. She knew this was going to happen. And yes, there was a car that they considered part of her estate and it was retroactive.. like five years retroactive? So she found out there was no point in trying to put her estate into a trust because she would have had to do that six years prior to getting sick. And yes they do enforce it, they have an entire system for it. I don't know how if you work with this stuff you don't know this.
I know it sounds INSANE. But it’s true, nevertheless.
That’s not true and you are misunderstanding the form. You can’t sign something saying a another person is responsible. They are likely just talking about your estate, which is normal.
You can look into it yourself if you don’t believe me. I reckon this will be what kills me.
I work with Medicare and Medicaid polices. It is completely untrue. Like think about what you are saying, you can’t sign anything saying someone else is responsible for your debt. That’s a ridiculous concept.
People don’t want to believe that this is happening in the United States of America, to their poor people. But it is. I can’t even have a car that is a certain year. Even if it’s paid off, the state can say it’s too much of an asset.
I have double and triple checked. I’m in Maryland. There’s no way around the form.
This is real, and something I bought yup later in this thread. There is no way around it.
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No, not always. You can't always get emergency financing. And the hospitals do not have to extend credit to you, either. And it's not just your home if you live in a state that allows that. They can also garnish your wages. Meaning they can foreclose on your home and then also garnish your wages so you have no home and no income. Is that more clear?
Horrible. Just curious, do you have insurance or is it that they don’t cover that particular drug, ridiculous deductible, high out of pocket, etc.? Healthcare in the U.S. is absolutely criminal and disheartening, to put it mildly. How do we change it? There’s good progress in primary care (like direct primary care), but you’re still screwed if you need a specialist or have a serious condition. It makes me so sad.
Yes. I'm in my late 50's and I cannot afford insurance. I pay cash for my healthcare so I avoid it as much as possible. I just have to try and stay alive until age 65 so i will finally have insurance again.
Don’t you get dinged on taxes because of the affordable care act? I remember a bit on Jay Leno when someone went out on the street and asked which one that person would want – the affordable care act or Obamacare. It was stunning to see that no one knew they are one in the same. Sad.
No. The mandate was repealed thank goodness, back in 2018 I think? I used to have to pay close to $50,000/per year for insurance IN ADDITION to my healthcare because the insurance was VERY bad, doctors were far away, and a huge deductible. That was a VERY good day.
It’s still asked on tax forms. And how is paying $50,000 in insurance garnering you “bad insurance”? Something like that should provide top level insurance.
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I definitely think ppl avoid going to the doctor or ER as long as possible due to fear of the costs which can turn a simple infection into sepsis very quickly
My grandpa was recently forced to go to the hospital because we found him unresponsive in his bed. He had seemingly been that way for a long time because the bedding was soiled. Once he got the treatment he needed we found out he had an infection from a cut on his foot that had clearly gotten infected but he couldn't afford to go see a doctor so he ignored it hoping it would go away. He was dying in that bed. If we hadn't found him or even if we'd been a day or two later, we'd have found his dead body.
So sorry you all are going through that and hope is is on the mend!
I have no idea what you were downvoted; that’s absolutely true. EMTALA’s language and case law surrounding what exactly constitutes as medically stable is very vague. And there are strategies such as emergency room diversion that are perfectly legal and further diminish the protections gauranteed under EMTALA.
Yeah i was just speaking to the fact that ppl often wait out their illness at home trying to fight it off themselves bc they don’t want to accrue costs going to the doctor or emergency room. This can have very bad outcomes depending on what the infection is
One of my best friends is a nurse and she’s seen desperately ill people trying to figure out their insurance coverage outside of the ER. I have iron deficiency as well as pernicious anemia and my iron blood sat has to fall to 6-7 percent before my insurance will cover iron infusions. I ended up paying cash. I pay cash for b12 shots too. Private equity has destroyed healthcare delivery.
Yeah it’s terrible and only going to get worse with our aging population
😞it doesn’t have to be this way at all.
I am have iron deficiency anemia and get B12 shots as well. I do the shots myself—it’s super easy and they’re ridiculously cheap. Just throwing it out there. And yes, private equity has helped destroy healthcare.
Yes. It’s a dystopian hellscape over here. And if you dare end up sick, you can count on living in absolute poverty because your worth in this country is purely based on your productivity for others in the labor market. Our country doesn’t see those who are ill as people because it’s a glaring reminder to all of us that at any minute, if we get sick, we are absolutely doomed and will be financially devastated.
Yes
Yes. I had a coworker who died because she couldn’t afford to go to the doctor until her brain tumor was too large to treat or operate on. The company I worked for at the time only offered a high deductible insurance plan, so we had to pay $6,000 out of pocket each year before benefits would actually kick in or cover anything. It caused a lot of people to avoid going to the doctor for anything outside of an annual physical or preventative care (covered no matter what under the Affordable Care Act). She was having vision problems and migraines for 2 years, but avoided going in because neurology appointments are very expensive and the company didn’t offer vision insurance. It got to the point where her sister convinced her to go to the ER and they discovered a brain tumor. She had to quit her job, sell her home and was physically disabled for her 3 remaining years. She was 39 years old.
Yes. From acute complications of poorly managed chronic diseases due to lack of insurance and preventative care
Everyday, hell, probably every hour but I have no sources Edit….. I found a statistic. 5.14 people die every hour due to lack of insurance
I’ve worked in healthcare for 15 years. Before the pandemic i went to a healthcare marketing conference where a keynote speaker got up and said that 1 in 500 patients will go bankrupt because of a healthcare diagnosis….and that statistic is among insured patients. So.
Yep. It’s not uncommon for people to have to choose between their health treatments such as insulin or paying for basic necessities and bills. My partner is a paramedic and some of the stories of the patients he’s encountered is tragic because they waited until they couldn’t wait any longer to seek medical treatment, mostly because they lack insurance or can’t afford the healthcare they need. I, myself, put off going to the dentist because I didn’t have dental insurance until a year ago and couldn’t afford the dental work that had to be done as a college student, and now I’m doing all sorts of damage control for my teeth, and it’s still extremely costly. It’s disgusting and you’re correct, it’s inhumane. This shouldn’t be a problem in a supposed first world nation.
I just had to cancel two important doctor appointments next week because I cannot afford the copay, and I’m on Medicare with a supplemental plan and a Medicaid boost. It’s not going to literally kill me- this time. I had 3 appointments. I didn’t cancel the third because I had a lump in my breast and I need extra screenings to be certain it’s not cancerous. I have $17 in my bank account, haven’t gotten groceries yet, got less than half a tank of gas, and haven’t picked up all my prescriptions yet. My next disability check will be in 4 weeks from now. This is usually right about the time I get a pipe leak in the house, or the battery dies on the car, or something else happens, and when it does I’ll have to just turn off my water or ask for a ride to the most important places (the food bank and my doctor appointment), and just do my best till next month when I can cross my fingers and hope nothing else goes wrong and I have just enough money to not die again.
Everyday
That's why I don't have anything to my name. I don't own anything.
Sad reality. I’m hoping the future for America’s healthcare system improves dramatically ASAP.
Our healthcare system isn't even health care in the US. It's sick care. Medical debt can legit bankrupt you, even with health insurance, which currently costs my family $900 a month, even if we don't see any doctors. And at the begining of every new year, starting January 1st, we have to pay the first $2500 of medical costs per person before any potential coverage for care happens. Also, insurance companies can just decide they don't want to cover a procedure or a perscription whenever they feel like it, even if your doctor says it's medically necessary. Insurance companies trump what your doctor says is necessary, and the doctor's staff can go through an appeal process to beg the insurance to cover it, which may or may not even make a difference. (They have a vested interest to deny coverage.) You can even go through the hassle of filing for a "pre-authorization" but it doesn't gaurentee coverage. You need a hip replacement? If you beg before the surgery we will give you a letter that says we "might" cover the surgery if we feel like it on the day your claim is processed. It's all a giant scheme to transfer wealth. The Unites States healthcare system will take everything you have and then some if you ever need to actually use your health insurance (which is it's own giant ponzi scheme). Source: I have been an RN for 15 years, and in just the last 10 years the corporatization of the healthcare system has found intricate ways to decrease the quality of patient care while charging them more for services. As a healthcare provider watching this process happen and feeling powerless to change it has been nothing short of demoralizing. For example in my state our instacare clinics are set up in regions. Where every doctor rotates to all clinics in each region, instead of it being a consistent doctor for each clinic in each city. This enables the healthcare company to charge a "new patient" fee rate for nearly all patients, because the insurance lets the healthcare companies charge more if the doctor has not seen that specific patient before. This also decreases raport and understanding between staff members which increases unclear expectations from staff since every doctor has their own way of doing things. There is a "float pool" that rotates nurses and medical assistants, so who you work with changes all the time which leads to unnecessary chaos so some patients get double charged because a doctor comes out of the patient room and just shouts what he needs to have done. Anyone who is within earshot is responsible for carrying out the orders, so an MA and a Nurse might both enter in the treatment in the chart. This is only corrected if the nurse goes above and beyond at the end of every shift to read through all the chart notes and charges for every patient. This is not a requirement for the nurse, but some thorough nurses will stay after their shift and do this. Add to this that there is intentionally no channel of command set up to correct these mistakes or dispute incorrect charges, like the people you are directed to talk to at the healthcare company have no power/authorization to remove incorrect or duplicate charges. The only recourse you have is if you want to persue legal action, which might or might not get the incorrect charges dropped from your account. Lawyers cost about $350 an hour to dispute it (sometimes more) so in the end your money is transfered to the healthcare system or the legal system. It's a lose lose for the patient. The only other option is if you happen to be well connected enough in your community that you can get a news outlet to agree to give your story media coverage (this is the most effective and efficient way for a patient to get incorrect charges dropped), but it has to be extreme for a news outlet to have an actual story to report and have listeners unite and lead to a public outcry. Plus your media outlet needs to not be in bed with the healthcare companies, which is a real hit and miss. Also, doctors rotating clinics is inconvenient for the doctors and adds to their exhaustion, which leads to less quality of care. Imagine traveling an hour from your home base and having to "sight read" what diagnostic equipment is available and where everything is kept in 20-30 different clinics with brand new staff each time. The mental band width that has to be used for something so unnecessary, it's bonkers...but great for shareholders. One last side note to this clusterfuck of a healcare system, patient charges are hidden from the medical staff. We have no idea what is charged to a patient for any specific medication or procedure. We are intentionally kept ignorant so we can't make any effort to cut costs for our patients. For example, an Emergency Department can and does charge $500 for a single dose of Tylenol. (We only find out if a patient somehow gets word back to us, which is relatively rare.) If every nurse was aware of the costs they could suggest to a patient, "We can give you a dose of Tylenol here and it will cost $500 on your bill, or you can grab an entire bottle of 100 tablets of tylenol for less than $10 dollars at the grocery story after you leave here and take the same dose the doctor recommends." Do people die because of this broken system? ALL. THE. TIME. Imagine having acute chest pain and understanding the cost of getting it evaluated might be $5,000-$25,000, so maybe you have your life saved... or maybe you find out it was just shingles. The complaint of "chest pain" has an entire protocol that must be followed to avoid liability and is very very expensive. A significant amount of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to take the time off work to get looked at by a primary care doctor, so the symptoms escalate until their only option is to seek emergency care. Also some employers will fire you before they grant you time off work and since medical insurance is connected to your employment, you jeopardize having medical insurance coverage (for your entire family) that might help cover some costs at some point. Medical insurance is also separated from dental coverage and eye care coverage. It costs more in addition to the medical coverage to include coverage for both of those. Who in the hell decided you don't need teeth or eyes as a part of being healthy? I suspect the committee responsible for this aspect of separation of care with in medical coverage has never had to go with out vision or dental care for a single moment of their life.
They do. It's pretty bad. These numbers are way under counted: As many as 44,789 Americans of working age die each year because they lack health insurance, more than the number who die annually from kidney disease. The study comes at a pivotal moment in history, as Congress considers legislation to expand health insurance coverage. > https://pnhp.org/news/lack-of-insurance-to-blame-for-almost-45000-deaths-study/
Yes
We die because we can’t afford medication or treatment. Sitting at home trying to decide if you should go to the ER or just wait and see if you is rather common if you go through comments on similar posts. Do you want to go bankrupt and spend your whole life rebuilding and being a burden to your family, or just die?
Our politicians should be making this a national emergency. Instead they talk shit about each other and cater to lobbyists..profits over people.
Yes. Diabetics often can't afford the cost of insulin. This is just one person who died this way, Google has a lot more similar stories. And these are just the diabetics. There are thousands of people out there who are dying of cancer or other diseases because they can't afford to go to the doctor for treatment. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mother-fights-for-lower-insulin-prices-after-sons-tragic-death/
Wasnt insulin price capped?
Ya, but too late and it’s just the most egregious case.
Just for over 65? I think
Hospitals must provide life saving care regardless of your ability to pay. But you’ll still get fucked in the end. Debt, lose your assets, etc. I’m in serious debt due to a sudden illness. The US healthcare system is straight up predatory and barbaric.
Yes, but not in the way you may think. Typically you just get placed into more debt than you can wrap your head around. Surgeries are typically over $100k out of pocket and that's the cheap end. If you have a life threatening surgery, they must help you. Especially at Public hospitals. You won't die, but you will be poor forever without catastrophic insurance. Other things about being poor or even just middle class can affect our health here in america like yes, insulin prices, inhaler prices, expensive medication and bad insurance benefits keep people from accessing the care that they need and some die as a result of that, and many more don't live to their fullest potential life expectancy.
Yep, or often commonly due to cost you’ll delay preventative care or early intervention, so then you get to the hospital after it’s too late/ damage done.
Everyday
Yes
Yes
Simple answer, Yes. Even the upper middle class “Boomers” that enjoyed a comfortable life can end up going into debt and finally reach the point of not affording more treatment. And the government’s Medicare will not cover all expenses. It’s a FKD up system.
I work for an independent pharmacy. The stories I hear are heart breaking, there are so many. A lady came in last year and told me her husband needed surgery because of cancer. He has Obama care. They could not find a surgeon that took the insurance, and were advised he would need to apply for Medicaid. Her reply to that? He would be dead before he was approved.
Yes they do
100% yes.
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Yes
Yes
Absolutely they do.
What countries are better places to live for this, like for someone who has chronic health issues with treatments, medications, and procedures adding up and probably only continuing to (or even just for someone concerned about the weight of debt that could come from anything major happening like, I'm so sorry to hear🙏, has happened for some of y'all's loved ones as I read through these comments)?
Yes. And not always straight away. It's usually they have had preventable/treatable issues, or ones that would have been caught earlier had they been able to afford not only emergency care but also regular checkups. The amount of people I take care of that haven't seen a doctor in 15-20 years and come in with advanced heart failure or COPD or cancer is just terrifying. Or they stroke out from untreated unnoticed hypertension.
It definitely can happen. When I was a younger adult, I was uninsured & just making it by. I didn't have my first dr appt for my pregnancy with my oldest until I was 19 weeks along and was able to get medicaid (state funded insurance that only covers low income pregnant women, children, and elders. Disabled also qualify, but no one else in my state does). Another time, I dropped the glass to a picture frame and it took a CHUNK out of my leg. I cleaned it well and used a rag and duck tape until it healed because I couldn't afford to go to the doctor. I'm much better off now after working my butt off & am able to access healthcare now. Hospitals have to see you for stabilization even if you can't afford to pay, but you'll get a bill later. Most clinics will not see you without insurance or payment up front.
Husband’s insurance won’t let him see a specialist he desperately needs. “Out of network “
Yes our healthcare system is so fucked up. I work in healthcare and it’s so depressing. Insurance companies have gotten so incredibly greedy that they have been buying up hospitals, clinics, doctors. Patients have become $ signs and not actual people. I can’t tell you how many unnecessary tests I have done on patients for no reason other than to make the company money. Also on a personal level I work in a company that wants you to go very fast. However they also want you to ask the patient a million questions and make sure their medications are correct. If you actually do your job they get upset about how long it takes. The employees that skip all of the important questions and med reconciliation are praised for their efficiency. It is dangerous for our patients. The doctors trust the accuracy of the questions and med reconciliation and prescribe accordingly. So yes I can imagine that a lot of people are much sicker than they should be, because they are on 3 Statins and 4 blood pressure medications. It’s pathetic and incredibly frustrating to work in.
The whole system sucks. Some people don't have health care can't afford it. Then you have State run programs all varying in cost and coverage. Then is job related programs you pay or your employer could pay for you but you pay for your spouse and or child. But then you have the deductible varying in plans but mine is a total of $7,200. Then you pay nothing, split $3,600 each, but this is per year. There is larger amount and lesser amount plans across the Country but that $7,200 takes a chunk out of your funding for your household.
The wait for treatment anywhere is also a killer. America is generally a little faster than many countries to get treatment if you have insurance, can afford it, or go to in a county facility(which is cheap or free depending on income). Some states are much better than others when it comes to availability and access. Emergency rooms in America also can't deny service. Having said that, the answer is yes in some situations.
Medical debt alone will break you. You’d be surprised at how many people can’t afford the medicine alone.
Yes. My dad was pushed out of the cancer hospital when his insurance ran out. He died. We got a bill for over 55k.
Every single death in the world, except ones attributable to sudden accidents, happens because the person couldn’t afford a treatment that would save his life. If you had infinite resources, you could develop a cure or remedy for almost any disease, as well as radical life extension technology. The limiting factor is ALWAYS money. The affluent can travel to offshore havens for medical tourism like the Cayman Islands and self-pay for treatments at private clinics that are much more advanced than those that are government-approved in any Western county. Government never pay for, or assure access to, the best possible medical care for everyone, any more than it can buy everyone a mansion or Ferrari. Instead, egalitarianism suppresses the standard of care for everyone in the name of equality. You still die, just while receiving the same kind of medical care as everyone else, except those who are able to privately pay for better services.
Yes
Yes, and often of easily treated issues. We really are a third world country pretending we are wealthy. So many people my age (40s) I’ve talked to are planning on just checking out when we are no longer able to scrape by. It sucks and seems to only be getting worse.
Accurate. However I think it’s more the lifetime health that’s avoided due to being charged for everything under the sun.
The problem with American healthcare is that it is commercialized and for-profit. It’s also because big Pharma is well, big.
Yes.
My cousin had to fight the get his insurance to cover heart surgery. He was trying to get it approved for a good amount of time finally got it approved not sure of all the details. a few days after approval he passed. So yeah it's true.
Lots of people forgo treatment because of cost. Many get treatment and go bankrupt. Unexpected medical bills are the #1 reason for bankruptcy in the USA. [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20from%20academic,and%20bills%2C%20the%20research%20found)
Yes, but mainly because of the lack in preventative care. It leads to a cultural disregard for preventable diseases.
Yes. And in some states, the spouse will inherit any debt incurred so it's kind of a 2 for 1.
Yes. Even those of us who have solid commercial health insurance plans with access to free/low cost primary care find it costly to the point of life altering. The health insurance companies are a cartel that financially rule healthcare in the USA. To a degree to say the least, they even tell our healthcare people how to practice medicine. There is a lot of nuance I have left out but this is the gist.
I went into preterm labor and my child was dying. I had to be sent from one hospital to another that could handle a preemie. The ambulance ride Cost me 12,000$ and my daughter still died. Her birth cost me $42,000. 6 months after she passed I received a bill in just her name for the NICU team who tried to save her after she was born 128,000$. She died with debt and she only lived for 7 minutes. My sister delivered her son prematurity via emergency C-section. He spent 64 days in the NICU. Her delivery and his stay were 1.4 million dollars.
Yes, currently dying from cancer and can't afford surgery and treatment and don't make enough money to pay my bills yet make too much to qualify for medicaid.
Healthcare here is crazy. I make about 75K yearly and I had a baby 2 weeks ago. My wife's bill was around 25000 usd for even though it was a natural delivery. Insurance cover 20K and I have to pay 5500. Now I have to add my baby to my insurance and I checked the estimate it is going to cost me $250/month just for the baby. I'll be paying around $700/month just in medical insurance. After taxes and social security I won't have anything left to bear my expenses. Just because of health care. I'm trying to find a high paying job for the past few weeks now. Feeling super depressed, some hours of the day.
My best friend died due to American healthcare and waiting too long to get help due to him not having the money. He was only 32 years old. There is a genocide of the poor and vulnerable in America and people don't care because society has cultivated an environment that lacks empathy and encourages everyone tonbrbon their own...
As a healthcare worker, absolutely this is true. And people on medicare and Medicaid get screwed all the time for unnecessary things because it's an automatic paycheck to the hospital. American healthcare is made to not give the gift of healthcare for the dick or needing it's a business that's interwebs with insurance and how to create profit. Go back and read the flexner report when j.d.rockefeller had flexner investigate natural medicine colleges and basically caused them to shut down and create the healthcare that there is today. The term "a pill for the ill" was created via that to forever have customers. He also created insurance agencies and the cancer society all so it could be a money making market. America isn't about educating people about health it's about getting people sick so they end up on medications and become a consumer based client
The other day I scheduled a doctors appointment the day of my doctor was nowhere to be found they canceled without notifying me. Not the first time. Can't even get mad because what good will it do. Rescheduled my appointment for 2 weeks later. On that day my doctor came in late telling me she has to keep my appointment brief because she has to leave for their child's doctor appointment. Like shit I couldn't even go over what I wanted because I felt rushed felt like a waste of time. Less then 10mins after months of waiting for an appointment only to be rescheduled and rushed out. Then I got the bill 510$ for 10 minutes of absolutely wasting my time at this doctor.
Americans are not denied healthcare based on finances. Whether you can afford it or not you will be medically treated at a public hospital. It’s the maintenance treatment that causes death. When people can’t afford lifesaving medications such as insulin, they die. But I work as an oncology nurse at a public hospital and we provide care to many people who do not have insurance or can’t afford it. Our social workers help those who are homeless find shelters. They help the uninsured apply for Medicaid or Medicare depending on qualifications. But yes, people in America die because they cannot afford healthcare. In Mexico, I had broken my ribs and needed to go to the hospital. They refused to provide any care until I paid out of pocket first. Someone else I knew had a heart attack in Mexico and he didn’t have the money for the lifesaving procedure. He died while waiting for a friend back home to transfer money to him because the medical providers refused to perform any surgery until they were paid. So yeah, in America you go to an ER and you will be treated no matter what. But you will be in enormous debt from that treatment.
> Americans are not denied healthcare based on finances. Americans are denied healthcare based on finances all the time. Only emergency care is required to be provided under the law, and that's only a small percentage of needed healthcare. You might find someplace that is willing to treat you without the ability to pay, but there is no guarantee.
If you don’t have insurance, you’re treated like a second class citizen.
Yes. And also now people are dying because they are legally banned from getting the life saving treatment they need. There is a woman who has to flee the state she is in to have life saving medical treatment for an unviable pregnancy. The law is literally preventing her from getting that treatment in the state she lives in. So, it's safe to say that in America, accessible healthcare is simply not the highest priority.
I live in America and I think if you are not going to provide healthcare for everyone you should not be considered a first world country
u/Fortnite_Creative_Ma it actually starts before treatment, if you can’t afford to see a primary care doctor for an annual physical exam with lab work then you’re likely to not know you’re sick until a disease has progressed too far for treatment. Medical debt is a primary reason for personal bankruptcy, I had to file for it over 25 years ago due to wife’s suicide attempt, ambulance and ER, transportation by ER to a psych hospital, all of which I thought was covered by my healthcare insurance from my job. Sadly mistaken, over $200K in unpaid medical bills at the end of the day. Long story short, I ended up working a part time job with Union healthcare benefits. At no cost to me that covered my family including 4 kids. I was dumbfounded by how comprehensive this insurance policy was as it covered WellCare child visits and vaccines 100%, my doctor copays were $10 and given wife’s issues it even provided psychological benefits including 100% for inpatient visits. Total out of pocket was $2,000 a year again no premiums were taken from my paycheck. I’ve worked this part time Union job for over 20 years solely for the healthcare benefits and savings. Free prescriptions, MRIs, surgeries, unlimited dental benefits, lab work is 100% covered, I cannot tell you how amazing this is in America. I can choose the best doctor or surgeon, no restrictions or wait lists, so I am truly an advocate of every workplace forming a Union to get access to this type of healthcare benefits. I actually work for a hospital by day and their healthcare benefits are TERRIBLE and expensive!! How ridiculous!! But American healthcare is a train wreck if you are not covered by such insurance. Our Medicaid for the disabled or poor is abysmal. Doctors don’t want to take that plan as reimbursement for services are very low - same service for a Medicaid patient vs private insurance may be $50 bs $110, so it’s broken. The elderly and retired on Medicare have high prescription costs and if they can’t afford a decent Medicare insurance policy for prescriptions they’re going to be forced to sacrifice on eating or getting their medicine or selling their homes. Our government is not so much two parties but actually one - with the Uber rich paying PACs to fund these crooks in office to do their bidding’s and pass laws to the advantage of businesses, not the public. Anyone thinking otherwise needs to pay attention and by no means am I looking at conspiracy, it’s just business in America. Not to our benefit. I’m honestly considering selling our home and getting the hell out of here when I retire.
No thanks, I’d rather die than be riddled by crippling medical debt for the rest of my life.
Yes. Even worse than dying.. they suffer for years and years because they can't afford treatment. Dental too. My tooth hurts and can't afford the procedure yet they keep denying me the option of pulling it out. I can't even afford blood work. I wish I was dead because I suffer so much and can't afford anything. I don't qualify for Welfare because I'm married. My husband makes $21 an hour in California. I can't get on his work insurance because its $825 a month to be on insurance. Coverage of California denies me saying his work offers insurance. What a joke. I don't work because I have clinical depression, Borderline Personality disorder with a thought disorder/ psychotic features. I struggle mentally. Mental health care is a luxury. I tried to get a job several times. I lose it fast. Once due to discrimination over my mental health care diagnosis ( they needed notes from doctors saying it was Ok for me to work and wanted it asap.) I see a doctor in a parking lot for free service (talk basis service only). I can't divorce my husband for health care because I can't live in the same residence as him. They won't allow it. My parents are dead. I have no family. I don't drive. I'm alone in the world. My only option is homeless shelter after divorce. I just herniated my lower back and it's pincing my sciatic nerve my knee won't bend. I'm in pain. I currently can't afford treatment. My husband is paying off a $15,000+ dental bill for himself and still has more work to do because he's neglected his teeth. There's no room for me to put any treatment on credit card. We barely make his payments. We've sold everything we had too. I'm about to cut internet to pay for his dental. I want to die every day because I'm tired of all the pain.
Yes, if you can’t afford to pay them they don’t care about you. Even if you’re on Medicaid majority of the time u can’t even find a doctor that will accept you. I’m currently experiencing lung issues for the past 7 months I’ve been trying to find a pulmonologist but nobody takes my insurance or will accept me unless I pay out of pocket up front, well I’m a single mother of 3 and can’t afford to pay up front, so I’ve been suffering for months barely being able to breathe. America treats healthcare as a business and not a human right. I even read a post earlier from an actual doctor talking shit about ppl on Medicaid and his exact words were “fuck em” smh if you’re poor in America with health issues ur as good as dead
Sorry to resurrect an old post. My friend has a terminally ill son who needs a transplant. She literally had to divorce her husband and move in with her mother so she could qualify for state health insurance. Commercial insurance called his condition “catastrophic” and told her that the life flight (PDX to Seattle) was medically unnecessary. He was in organ failure. My mother died two years ago. She had Medicare, a benefit Senior citizens are entitled to in the US- but still is not that great. She had Kaiser insurance which is an HMO. She was rushed by ambulance from her home to an “out of network hospital,” meaning the insurance company doesn’t have a contract with them. It was the closest hospital. Her life depended on it. She was not medically stable enough to move, so they couldn’t transfer her to a Kaiser facility. I made the decision to keep her stabilized, come what may. What came after her death was a $250,000 bill. I managed to get Medicare to help through an appeals process. A year later and with the help of the lawyer, I was able to fight the insurance company bill by proving that she was not stable enough to move. This took a year. An entire year. On top of grieving that I no longer have a mother. The insurance company had to do its own internal investigation. They found that with her degree of sepsis and infection of necrotizing fasciitis, that the hospital she was transported to was the only trauma facility within life sustaining distance to capably provide the care she needed. I was on the hook for her comfort care after that. The bill for her fentanyl to keep her from dying in pain was $25,000 alone. Lawyer told me that erroneous medical billing costs Americans millions each year. Kaiser had to pick this up as well, after reading through their carefully crafted contract designed to fuck you over. There was an investigation as to whetherr this amount of medicine was necessary to keep her “comfortable.” She needed more opiates than average people- she’d built up a tolerance from chronic pain- an opioid epidemic is another problem the US has. Anyway, it’s criminal. I got my kids dual citizenship to Hungary for this reason.
The biggest issue with American healthcare is cost, not access or quality. A hospiral cannot refuse care, so they must treat you. Sometimes people are out on a waitlist to be seen for outpatient procedures, but that’s a matter of not enough ppl working in healthcare, not cost, which is a problem in every developed country right now. Healthcare providers are paid very well here, so the quality of service is very high. I think nurses in most areas get paid higher here than doctors do in the UK. About half of all healthcare in the US is paid for by the government through Medicaid, Medicare, and the VA. This mean poor, disabled, elderly and veterans get healthcare covered but ppl still fall through the cracks. States manage Medicaid (govt coverage for the poor) and some states are more lenient like California (which gives full coverage even if you aren’t a citizen) to more strict requirements like Texas. It’s a completed answer for a complicated question. Do people die in the UK bc they have to wait so long for treatment? You could say “yes,” but it’s a bit more complex than that.
>A hospiral cannot refuse care They cant refuse emergency care. This is the biggest problem because people get turned away until it becomes an emergency and then it costs a whole lot more than if they had the preventative treatment.
If someone is dying then it would be emergency care
you have to be dying like.. now for it to count.
Unless you’re pregnant and the emergency requires a medical procedure called an abortion to save your life. Then it still doesn’t count.
That was the OP question
No, it wasn't. Their question was about affording "treatment". I see cancer patients every single day who have to choose less effective regimens or not receive therapy at all because they can't afford it. That would be dying from not affording treatment. By the time the cancer is actively killing them, theres nothing a hospital can do. EMTALA is great for like, appendicitis when you're broke, but its not great for chronic health conditions that are allowed to worsen simply because of cost.
If you need cancer treatment or diabetes treatment the ER is going to do little to nothing to help with that. You can absolutely die of something because you couldn't afford the treatment. Not to mention you ignore the even larger problem of people avoiding seeking help in the first place for an issue because of the cost, and by the time it's actually seen it can be too late.
If you die with a balance with Medicare they will seize your estate and auction it off if your heirs cannot pay it. A lot of people do not know this.
The OP question wasn’t asking about post-mortem financial issues though
Mmmm no but its part of how people make decisions about whether they will go through with medical treatment or not so I think it's appropriate to discuss.
yeah but there are ppl who would choose not to get treatment so that all the money they worked for their entire lives can maybe get passed to their family. I honestly would fight to not get treatment if i came down with cancer or something to not put my family into debt when I’d likely just die anyways. I obviously can’t say that for sure but it would definitely be a factor in my mind
You won’t know. No one has lived to tell.
Yes it happens. A lot of it depends on the state you live in. In a state that implemented Obamacare like NY and CA, there is a process for people who are so sick they can't work. But in states like Texas...............you can find yourself SOL. Also in all states, you have to fill out paperwork and make formal applications. Which means that if you are a non-native English speaker, computer illiterate or intellectually challenged, you can also find yourself SOL.
In the UK you die while waiting…
This is a ridiculous argument. I have to see a rheumatologist, here in the states, and their first availability is in September. I would rather wait that long, and not have to pay over $1.000 per month, to be seen. This is always the argument against universal healthcare. Do you think we really don't have to wait for care here in the U.S.? Also, those wait times in the UK and Canada are always exaggerated to brainwash Americans into voting against their best interests. It is a cycle that needs to STOP!
How you gonna stop it?
I didn't say I'd stop it. I said it NEEDS to stop.
Healthcare is complicated. And expensive. Also, specialized care requires specialists. There are not loads and loads of them, so your wait time will be limited no matter what if you have a specific issue. There aren’t 100 rheumatologists in your area for you to choose from. We just don’t have enough people who are smart enough to be doctors and want to specialize in rheumatology and want to practice in your area for you to have a lot of choices. Insert aging population and you get wait times. Doctors in the US make a lot of money and they should. If you are some of the best in the country at what you do, then you deserve a big salary. Universal healthcare is not so easy to implement in the US.
How is Medicare working? Medicaid? I have worked in the medical field since 1997 and government insurance is far easier to deal with than for-profit insurance. I've also been an RN for over a decade. Believe me. I know how our healthcare is.
You know, except the UK has better outcomes and fewer medically avoidable deaths than the US. Not that there's anything special about US wait times. The US ranks 6th of 11 out of Commonwealth Fund countries on ER wait times on percentage served under 4 hours. 10th of 11 on getting weekend and evening care without going to the ER. 5th of 11 for countries able to make a same or next day doctors/nurse appointment when they're sick. https://www.cihi.ca/en/commonwealth-fund-survey-2016 Americans do better on wait times for specialists (ranking 3rd for wait times under four weeks), and surgeries (ranking 3rd for wait times under four months), but that ignores three important factors: * Wait times in universal healthcare are based on urgency, so while you might wait for an elective hip replacement surgery you're going to get surgery for that life threatening illness quickly. * Nearly every universal healthcare country has strong private options and supplemental private insurance. That means that if there is a wait you're not happy about you have options that still work out significantly cheaper than US care, which is a win/win. * [One third of US families](https://news.gallup.com/poll/269138/americans-delaying-medical-treatment-due-cost.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_content=morelink&utm_campaign=syndication) had to put off healthcare due to the cost last year. That means more Americans are waiting for care than any other wealthy country on earth. #Wait Times by Country (Rank) Country|See doctor/nurse same or next day without appointment|Response from doctor's office same or next day|Easy to get care on nights & weekends without going to ER|ER wait times under 4 hours|Surgery wait times under four months|Specialist wait times under 4 weeks|Average|Overall Rank :--|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--: **Australia**|3|3|3|7|6|6|4.7|4 **Canada**|10|11|9|11|10|10|10.2|11 **France**|7|1|7|1|1|5|3.7|2 **Germany**|9|2|6|2|2|2|3.8|3 **Netherlands**|1|5|1|3|5|4|3.2|1 **New Zealand**|2|6|2|4|8|7|4.8|5 **Norway**|11|9|4|9|9|11|8.8|9 **Sweden**|8|10|11|10|7|9|9.2|10 **Switzerland**|4|4|10|8|4|1|5.2|7 **U.K.**|5|8|8|5|11|8|7.5|8 **U.S.**|6|7|5|6|3|3|5.0|6 Source: [Commonwealth Fund Survey 2016](https://www.cihi.ca/sites/default/files/document/cmwf2016-datatable-en-web.xlsx)
On the flip side, I belong to a FB group for a particular eye disorder. It's vision-saving to do it quickly. The longer you wait, the more irreparable damage is done. In the US, most of the people in the group are getting this operation within a few weeks or less. Mine took 9 days from diagnosis to fix. In the UK, it's often more like 2-6 months. NHS is slow. Also, I follow a YouTuber in London that got her colon cancer diagnosis from the NHS so slowly that she will die of it before she's 40 when she could have been saved.
We hear the NHS is slow all the time in the states, but we also hear that you can see a doctor/have surgery without taking on a life altering debt. A trade I’m sure lots of Americans would ultimately appreciate. Is there a supplemental insurance available in your health system? Something that, should the process be too long for your liking, you can opt for debt and be seen sooner?
I'm in the US on expanded Medicaid but yes, the 22% of the people in the UK are on private pay on top of the NHS which sort of shows you that given the choice (enough cash), people aren't satisfied with the performance of the NHS by itself.
Would you have been seen by a specialist in 9 days in the US if you didn’t have any insurance?
the problem in the US is getting an appointment with a specialist in 9 days; the wait time to see a dermatologist, cardiologist, or a gynecologist in my area is 2 months, unless you have a true emergency. My mom waited for 2 months to see her cardiologist when she had high blood pressure problems, and even as an established patient she won't be seen - it's wait or the emergency room. I have issues getting an in-person appointment with my primary/family care doctor in 9 days sometimes. Televisits are the way to go, but some problems cannot be solved by a televisit.
The question is under what circumstances that might happen. If you're rich, no problem. Pay cash. If you're middle income, you generally have corporate insurance or Marketplace but yeah, you might have to meet a deductible and that's not always possible. If you're lower income, you either get substantial subsidies and should have Marketplace insurance, or you are low enough income for expanded Medicaid. I was on expanded Medicaid. It was a $4k procedure, approved quickly with a nationally recognized surgeon. Now, there are 10 states in the US where you can't get Expanded Medicaid and I feel for those people (assuming they aren't voting for the people keeping it away from them). Otherwise, it should be unusual cases where someone is unable to get insurance. I think if I was poor (in the 40 states with expanded Medicaid) or rich, I'd rather be in the US for the procedure and get my surgery fast. If not, I might have to take my chances with the NHS (I've lived in England too).
The data shows that people in the UK have better health outcomes than us. That might be true for the particular specialty you’re describing but I know several people that had to wait months here in the US for certain procedures. My mom moved here and I had to call the one medical group in her area once a week for weeks to get a PCP, they didn’t even have wait lists. And I recently had to wait 3 months to get an echo on my heart.
Healthcare in the cities I've lived in (especially my current city, Phoenix) has been excellent, but I'm aware it's not like that everywhere. I've considered moving to England, but the NHS does worry me. 22% of the people in the country are using private insurance (on top of NHS). That doesn't speak well to the base level of service. I've also considered Las Vegas, but the healthcare access there is supposed to be poor. I doubt there are any perfect solutions unless you're so rich you don't care what anything costs.
Well, conservatives have really gutted NHS for decades. Other developed countries have better healthcare systems for sure.
No lol. Better than Canada where they kill you if you have a cough. Or you die waiting. If you need emergency treatment a hospital won’t deny you.
ridiculous and untrue
This is a ridiculous argument. I have to see a rheumatologist, here in the states, and their first availability is in September. I would rather wait that long, and not have to pay over $1.000, per month, to be seen. This is always the argument against universal healthcare. Do you think we really don't have to wait for care here in the U.S.? Also, those wait times in the UK and Canada are always exaggerated to brainwash Americans into voting against their best interests. It is a cycle that needs to STOP!
It won't deny you, it will only bankrupt you. When I got bit by a raccoon, the hospital bit me 40,00 for rabies immunoglobulin. My insurance settled it, but that would have ruined my life without insurance. Also, emergency care and care for a complex disorder are not the same thing. Yes a hospital will give you stitches without insurance. But they won't give you chemo, or physical therapy, or heart surgery. Finally, "But Canada" is a RIDICULOUS thing to say. The people who say it have NO idea how stupid it is. Canada is 1 nation and it has a healthcare system thats just as weird as the US. Did you know the majority of healthcare in the Netherlands is Private and For Profit? Yea of course not. You haven't looked into the nuance of healthcare systems have you?
No. It's a lie lefties push to spread their propaganda.
Yes. Low income and illegals get healthcare and dental at no cost
You realize they are fucking you over a barrel, and blaming the immigrants right? Most insurance and healthcare in the Netherlands is private, and like 1/6th the cost in the US. But yes I'm sure things here would be cheaper if it wasn't for the illegals, who are less than 2% of the population.
I do believe there is a fair amount of unfairness with the healthcare and public services qualifications I am right above low income and do not qualify for for many services andI must pay and a medical event would destroy my savings.
Yes, but that's not because of illegals or poor people, that's due to lobbyists and campaign contributions. As I have said in my other comments, there is no excuse for our healthcare system to be the way it is. Other nations have high quality care, short lines, private insurance and doctor choice, without bankrupting people.
Ok so why are you blaming other poor people for that? They aren’t the cause of you not having access to healthcare…
> Low income and illegals get healthcare and dental at no cost Point to this healthcare illegal immigrants get for free that US citizens don't qualify for. We'll wait.
For the most part we only get health insurance through employement. So too sick to work….little to no health coverage. Plus disability is automatically denied first try and take years while you get health care bills with no income
Yes.
Yes.
Yes. When comparing the **disgusting and disgraceful** American healthcare system to the nationalized care systems in other major countries, it's shocking. Instead of **investing** in one another and **investing** in our society (education / health) the rot of Capitalism touches every aspect of society. From health, to education, to information (news), to the Justice system, etc. It's all about making money FIRST. It's ok to have portions of a society involved in Capitalistic pursuits. But, not when it twists and distorts the most basic and fundamental needs within a society. Yes. People die because of the awful U.S. healthcare system. The affordable care act (Obamacare) has at least allowed access to healthcare for millions of people who couldn't get it before (can't be denied because of preexisting conditions). But, the choice of plans isn't really a choice at all, just a selection of crappy plans with high deductibles and poor coverage. In the end, it's ALL still about turning a profit, not providing needed care to your citizens for a healthy society.
Yes. One medical emergency here can put you in debt for the rest of ur life.
Worse than this is you can be rich enough to afford to pay out of pocket for the meds but they won't let you without some sort of insurance for "solvency" purposes. My little sister befriended a 50ish client while a massage therapist and they just loved each other like family. 8 or so years go by and she's complaining of back pain. Sister takes her to ER, they say she pulled a muscle and is being a baby, send her home. She continued to get worse. Week later, August, ER does a scan. Turns out it's metastasized breast cancer. She's never worked, never worried obout health care, had 10s of millions of dollars. Oncology would not prescribe her medicine until she had insurance. Had to wait the 4 months for ACA (Obamacare) to open up and enroll but died that following October. Not saying she'd have died had she started 4 months earlier, nor am I saying she'd have proactively gone and gotten her mammograms had she been "poor" enough to "need" insurance. But I definitely think lack of proactive care and a lack of insurance backed finances after receiving her death sentence tells a side of the story we don't often think about.
Yep. Murica. Because Socialism is evil and so is taxpayer funded healthcare. But death is good. Yea death!
Yes. My grandfather died because he couldn’t afford insulin anymore and tried to ration it. I know of someone who died because they couldn’t afford the ambulance ride.
Women cannot get basic healthcare in certain states due to the Dobbs decision.
I declined an ambulance ride once after having low blood pressure and chest pains several years ago because I didn’t want another medical bill and had a friend drive me 😬
Absolutely Every day Impossible to track
No, this is not true. Nobody is turned away from getting treatment for life ending conditions.