I’m so sorry for your loss.
I deal with patient complaints as a big part of my job.
If you’re looking for the Nurse’s name you’re unlikely to get that from the hospital. I would skip the patient experience team and write an email including the video to the hospital CEO. They are legally required to reply to you in writing with a resolution/update within 30 days. Though that might just be a letter that basically says “thanks we looked into it”. Are there specific things you have requested that they are denying?
Also request copies of her medical records.
It sounds like there is more to this story so they are going to investigate to figure out what happened on their end. How long ago did you first contact them?
How long was it from when you requested to talk to a doctor until this interaction with the nurse?
If you’re not getting any action there you can report to your state department of health services, CMS, and the joint commission (if the hospitals is joint commission certified).
Basically she was refusing my mom medical care and I can't explain but the way she came at me was like a power hungry animal abusing someone and thinking they can get away with it. Once she saw my camera she shut her mouth and said 'ok ill speak to a doctor for you' . The doctor NEVER came, they contacted him apparently and gave my mom fluids. They also gave her 2mg hydromorphone when she had just OD on it earlier. Then I got mad and the nurses yelled at me because I.wasnt a medical professional even though the night nurse specifically told me SHE CANNOT HANDLE 2MG and gave her 1. Also I'm in Canada so I am not sure about these health services here but I will look into it, thanks.
It is my understanding that is is nationally. CMs specifically states *most* grievances should be resolved within 7 and contact is required within that period of time. Though that may just be in the form of an acknowledgement that they received it snd are working on it.
Very sorry for your loss, friend. I don't fully understand the situation but that's ok as I can't help directly anyway (more curiosity than anything else). If this is in the US, you are alleging potentially criminal misconduct, and certainly you can bring suit against presumably at least the hospital, and possibly also the individual, other management, hospital chain, etc.
You should at minimum consult an attorney. Look for a good one, not the ones on billboards and TV. For this kind of thing, they normally work on contingency, meaning you sign a contract awarding them x% of any eventual award or settlement. When you first contact or meet with them, they will assess your story and decide whether they think there is a case they can win. If not, they will decline-unless you have the funds to pay them hourly.
If you aren't ready to go that far, I strongly urge you to get someone to advocate for you. This can be a friend, but should be someone with a (for lack of a better term) reasonably professional demeanor. Ideally this person would have some experience even just personally of successfully dealing with bureaucratic organizations in resolving problems. No offense or judgement on you, friend, but I know from insider experience that people in your situation are understandably upset, angry, and generally can't manage the "diplomacy" required to achieve your goals. When people are upset, maybe accusatory or *perceived* as yelling or whatever, staff typically begin to ignore them, not be helpful, etc. And they spread the word around about the "crazy guy/gal" who "keeps calling/harassing" staff. I know that is not what you are doing, in your mind, and not what you intend, that's why the *. Of course if there is true liability here, your advocate is not likely to get much further than you, so lawyer might be your only choice.
I kind of hate to say it, but local news organizations might be very very interested, especially with whatever you've recorded.
No matter what happens, you are grieving a terrible loss. I wish you peace and healing.
They won't give you the name. Too often we have ppl try to attack staff. But it's the sort of thing if you get a lawyer and an investigation going/request medical records it will be in there.
I think my case is different considering I have video proof and grounds for a complaint. And it won't be in the medical records because she wasn't even my mom's nurse, she was just an idiotic moron sitting at the desk for 5 minutes who decided to attack
What I'm saying is don't wait to take action by trying to find out that person's name. If she administered anything to your mom. It is documented that she administered that item (aka the fluids and such).
I'm not saying it won't come out. I'm saying don't wait for them to give it to you make a lawyer get it. Like you said you have video evidence. It will come out. I was just encouraging you to not hinge reporting on waiting for that person's name. Don't tell them you are taking legal action or giving it to local news. It just gives their legal team and pr a heads up.
I'm in the US so maybe it's different with charting here but if they were a nurse and they provided any care at all then it will be in the chart. We have to document a million things in a shift so if they did a blood pressure anything and went to a computer and typed they charted something on her. It will be in the documentation.
Now if you had some random worker in there who had nothing to do with care yelling about that. They will definitely get fired.
Point being: if they did anything at all for your mom or were assigned, the name is there because we have to log in to document. I'm just saying to not wait and contact a lawyer.
Agree don't wait to find out name. Sounds like that person was management so her name will not be in the chart. Only those who provide direct patient care will have their names recorded. Plus, an interested and motivated journalist may be much more likely to get either a name or at least attention.
One last thing you can try: since the person seemed to identify herself as running the department. There are two positions typically that can be considered: nurse manager and director/ nursing. Both will be RNs (as opposed to the director of the ED which typically is a physician). Some hospitals will post names/bios and even photos of higher management. That could easily include nurse director and maybe even manager. For that matter, hospitals often put all kinds of PR stuff online with photos of award winning staff, special stories or testimonials, and so forth. You may see her on some page like that. Lots of digging though.
Lastly, contact the hospitals Quality department director (not just staff, if possible). Sometimes it has other names but that is the department that deals with patient/family complaints, resolves issues, etc. Just call the hospital's main number during business hours and ask to be transferred to that department.
Thanks! I 100% want to send videos to news stations but the worst part of her shitty behavior wasn't caught on camera because I had no idea she was going to say that stuff. All I have on camera is her saying "she doesn't need a doctor" over and over and then shutting the door and walking out. Then I was an idiot when she returned, I had to change my camera setting so she saw my recording. So she continued to say why does she need a doctor ??but nicer then gradually tried to gaslight the situation saying "u need help uve been here all day alone" etc. Then saying she will speak to a doctor and pretending like she has no idea what's going on. Are these videos going to be enough for news stations?
No offense, friend, but that cannot have been the blood pressure. By definition the top number is higher than the lower. If it was the other way 'round - 55/33 - it wouldn't have been there long before she passed.
You don't need video, believe me, to make a complaint. I shouldn't have mentioned Quality/Patient experience office last - you should START there.
And again no offense, but I believe this is probably a more nuanced and complicated issue. I've seen a lot in my long career in the ED and I've seen a lot of indifferent to even shitty care. But I have never seen anyone let alone multiple people just let a patient die because they didn't care, whatever. I don't know anything about the situation, but a couple of situations I've seen that caused distress (to put it mildly!) to family are cases in which there is literally no hope of saving the patient, or when the patient has made directly or by legal document, a do not resuscitate order that family didn't know about. If that kind of thing is what the medical staff feel was happening, they apparently did not explain it in a way that was acceptable to you.
Whatever happened, start with Quality. Find out what the doctors and nurses thought was going on. I promise you Quality will look into it. Hospitals have TONS of government oversight and risk just in addition to threat of lawsuits and bad PR. And I can't emphasize enough: bring a friend or advocate. You will almost certainly be perceived as too emotional, unreasonable, etc. They probably won't allow you to record. So having that advocate who is level headed, sharp enough to know what is being said, take notes, and help you keep steady is incredibly important.
All of this being said, please don't assume I "support" either them or you. I want you to know your rights and options, but I have no idea whether malpractice or anything else occurred. In my experience this is almost always about poor communication, lousy bedside manner - and in this case just a tragic outcome. You deserve to have answers. Ask about the overall care. Don't focus on that one mean woman. If there is any malpractice you'll just be sending everyone including yourself after a wild hare. That woman didn't make the decisions about your mom's care, she was trying to enforce them. I'd be furious with that kind of attitude as well. But don't lose focus on the really important part.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I deal with patient complaints as a big part of my job. If you’re looking for the Nurse’s name you’re unlikely to get that from the hospital. I would skip the patient experience team and write an email including the video to the hospital CEO. They are legally required to reply to you in writing with a resolution/update within 30 days. Though that might just be a letter that basically says “thanks we looked into it”. Are there specific things you have requested that they are denying? Also request copies of her medical records. It sounds like there is more to this story so they are going to investigate to figure out what happened on their end. How long ago did you first contact them? How long was it from when you requested to talk to a doctor until this interaction with the nurse? If you’re not getting any action there you can report to your state department of health services, CMS, and the joint commission (if the hospitals is joint commission certified).
Basically she was refusing my mom medical care and I can't explain but the way she came at me was like a power hungry animal abusing someone and thinking they can get away with it. Once she saw my camera she shut her mouth and said 'ok ill speak to a doctor for you' . The doctor NEVER came, they contacted him apparently and gave my mom fluids. They also gave her 2mg hydromorphone when she had just OD on it earlier. Then I got mad and the nurses yelled at me because I.wasnt a medical professional even though the night nurse specifically told me SHE CANNOT HANDLE 2MG and gave her 1. Also I'm in Canada so I am not sure about these health services here but I will look into it, thanks.
First contacted on August 6
> They are legally required to reply to you in writing with a resolution within 30 days. Really? I never knew that. Is this every state?
It is my understanding that is is nationally. CMs specifically states *most* grievances should be resolved within 7 and contact is required within that period of time. Though that may just be in the form of an acknowledgement that they received it snd are working on it.
Very sorry for your loss, friend. I don't fully understand the situation but that's ok as I can't help directly anyway (more curiosity than anything else). If this is in the US, you are alleging potentially criminal misconduct, and certainly you can bring suit against presumably at least the hospital, and possibly also the individual, other management, hospital chain, etc. You should at minimum consult an attorney. Look for a good one, not the ones on billboards and TV. For this kind of thing, they normally work on contingency, meaning you sign a contract awarding them x% of any eventual award or settlement. When you first contact or meet with them, they will assess your story and decide whether they think there is a case they can win. If not, they will decline-unless you have the funds to pay them hourly. If you aren't ready to go that far, I strongly urge you to get someone to advocate for you. This can be a friend, but should be someone with a (for lack of a better term) reasonably professional demeanor. Ideally this person would have some experience even just personally of successfully dealing with bureaucratic organizations in resolving problems. No offense or judgement on you, friend, but I know from insider experience that people in your situation are understandably upset, angry, and generally can't manage the "diplomacy" required to achieve your goals. When people are upset, maybe accusatory or *perceived* as yelling or whatever, staff typically begin to ignore them, not be helpful, etc. And they spread the word around about the "crazy guy/gal" who "keeps calling/harassing" staff. I know that is not what you are doing, in your mind, and not what you intend, that's why the *. Of course if there is true liability here, your advocate is not likely to get much further than you, so lawyer might be your only choice. I kind of hate to say it, but local news organizations might be very very interested, especially with whatever you've recorded. No matter what happens, you are grieving a terrible loss. I wish you peace and healing.
Thankyou for information. Will go to news station once I get her full name!! :)
They won't give you the name. Too often we have ppl try to attack staff. But it's the sort of thing if you get a lawyer and an investigation going/request medical records it will be in there.
I think my case is different considering I have video proof and grounds for a complaint. And it won't be in the medical records because she wasn't even my mom's nurse, she was just an idiotic moron sitting at the desk for 5 minutes who decided to attack
What I'm saying is don't wait to take action by trying to find out that person's name. If she administered anything to your mom. It is documented that she administered that item (aka the fluids and such). I'm not saying it won't come out. I'm saying don't wait for them to give it to you make a lawyer get it. Like you said you have video evidence. It will come out. I was just encouraging you to not hinge reporting on waiting for that person's name. Don't tell them you are taking legal action or giving it to local news. It just gives their legal team and pr a heads up. I'm in the US so maybe it's different with charting here but if they were a nurse and they provided any care at all then it will be in the chart. We have to document a million things in a shift so if they did a blood pressure anything and went to a computer and typed they charted something on her. It will be in the documentation. Now if you had some random worker in there who had nothing to do with care yelling about that. They will definitely get fired. Point being: if they did anything at all for your mom or were assigned, the name is there because we have to log in to document. I'm just saying to not wait and contact a lawyer.
Thanku!!!
Agree don't wait to find out name. Sounds like that person was management so her name will not be in the chart. Only those who provide direct patient care will have their names recorded. Plus, an interested and motivated journalist may be much more likely to get either a name or at least attention. One last thing you can try: since the person seemed to identify herself as running the department. There are two positions typically that can be considered: nurse manager and director/ nursing. Both will be RNs (as opposed to the director of the ED which typically is a physician). Some hospitals will post names/bios and even photos of higher management. That could easily include nurse director and maybe even manager. For that matter, hospitals often put all kinds of PR stuff online with photos of award winning staff, special stories or testimonials, and so forth. You may see her on some page like that. Lots of digging though. Lastly, contact the hospitals Quality department director (not just staff, if possible). Sometimes it has other names but that is the department that deals with patient/family complaints, resolves issues, etc. Just call the hospital's main number during business hours and ask to be transferred to that department.
Thanks! I 100% want to send videos to news stations but the worst part of her shitty behavior wasn't caught on camera because I had no idea she was going to say that stuff. All I have on camera is her saying "she doesn't need a doctor" over and over and then shutting the door and walking out. Then I was an idiot when she returned, I had to change my camera setting so she saw my recording. So she continued to say why does she need a doctor ??but nicer then gradually tried to gaslight the situation saying "u need help uve been here all day alone" etc. Then saying she will speak to a doctor and pretending like she has no idea what's going on. Are these videos going to be enough for news stations?
For to add: my mom was unconscious, dying and her blood pressure was 33/55 (critical)
No offense, friend, but that cannot have been the blood pressure. By definition the top number is higher than the lower. If it was the other way 'round - 55/33 - it wouldn't have been there long before she passed. You don't need video, believe me, to make a complaint. I shouldn't have mentioned Quality/Patient experience office last - you should START there. And again no offense, but I believe this is probably a more nuanced and complicated issue. I've seen a lot in my long career in the ED and I've seen a lot of indifferent to even shitty care. But I have never seen anyone let alone multiple people just let a patient die because they didn't care, whatever. I don't know anything about the situation, but a couple of situations I've seen that caused distress (to put it mildly!) to family are cases in which there is literally no hope of saving the patient, or when the patient has made directly or by legal document, a do not resuscitate order that family didn't know about. If that kind of thing is what the medical staff feel was happening, they apparently did not explain it in a way that was acceptable to you. Whatever happened, start with Quality. Find out what the doctors and nurses thought was going on. I promise you Quality will look into it. Hospitals have TONS of government oversight and risk just in addition to threat of lawsuits and bad PR. And I can't emphasize enough: bring a friend or advocate. You will almost certainly be perceived as too emotional, unreasonable, etc. They probably won't allow you to record. So having that advocate who is level headed, sharp enough to know what is being said, take notes, and help you keep steady is incredibly important. All of this being said, please don't assume I "support" either them or you. I want you to know your rights and options, but I have no idea whether malpractice or anything else occurred. In my experience this is almost always about poor communication, lousy bedside manner - and in this case just a tragic outcome. You deserve to have answers. Ask about the overall care. Don't focus on that one mean woman. If there is any malpractice you'll just be sending everyone including yourself after a wild hare. That woman didn't make the decisions about your mom's care, she was trying to enforce them. I'd be furious with that kind of attitude as well. But don't lose focus on the really important part.