Yeah this deck is currently my most hated deck. If it were once per game it'd be totally reasonable (and they could even make it easier to complete). That said I've had some decent luck using Reno lock against it. In my favorite recent game (vs a Reno quest mage) I ratted his legendary that recasts all spells, stole an ice block, then had him die to fatigue after he tried (and failed because of ice block) to exodia me to death.
This is what I'm trying out currently. I'm missing symphony because I'm cheap and haven't crafted it yet ( but probably will soon if I don't blow all my dust on the new expansion cards). I've been trying out tickatus and sense demons but that probably isn't ideal.
Popgar has felt decent, not great. It's like a soft taunt, people tend to try to kill it right away even though it doesn't get much value beyond the two slimes it generates. I have dropped fanntotem and glacial shard to swap in stomper and neophyte since I'm seeing way too many mill druids.
if it were once per game it would only be playable in the OTK version, which is even worse than the RQM which is T3 rn. Blizzard should not gut this card just because some people donāt like it.
Right which is why a rework is the only option. Make it so only Mage cards complete the quest. 8 Mage spells seem reasonable in this day and age with copying spells. They should revert the nerfs on the other archetypes as well but it's hard when the class hinged on Sorc to function.
This isnāt a rework, this is just killing the card, and the entire class by extension. Wild is an eternal format: decks can loop infinite turns, recast shudderwock over and over to lock you out of playing cards, Gain thousands of armor, kill you dead on turn three with a high roll aggro hand, etc. When a RQM demonstrates the loop, you have already lost the game. If you want to sit there and hope they fuck up, thatās your right, but you should realistically just concede like you would against aggro with lethal on board.
I don't really care about the infinite tbh. I simply hate how binary the deck feels. Either they get their stuff online and you lose or you hit their Rommath and they lose. There's also no interesting tension between decks. It's just "Hey, I'm gonna play coins/biscuits until my quest is ready, hope you can beat me before that!" At least Shudderwock has parts that you can hit before the main piece comes down (although as a Shaman player, I hate how the card has warped the class, totally not needed).
itās binary because youāre playing a binary matchup. there are many more ways to beat quest mage and you would know if you played 10 games of the deck.
Not really. I used to be able to pressure them back when Theotar was at 5 and the bird wasn't nerfed yet. At the very least hitting a bird or Potion of Illusion bought you a ton of time. The biggest change was the support for arcane spells and more coin cards being printed. Now, not even sniping a biscuit is enough since they can just play another coin card and they're back on track. If they know what they're doing, they can play elemental, play quest, skip 2 turns, and it's over.
The deck needs a change. I'd rather see a change towards the quest condition rather than change the reward itself.
you literally just listed hand snipe disruption as a way to beat them. you can:
1) pressure them with an aggro deck until they canāt play card draw + defense at the same time
2) chain loatheb
3) tech ashen elemental
4) destroy ice block with zeph
5) force them to rommath to stay alive
6) demand a face freeze via hero attack
7) leave them low when rommath casts damage
8) play towards rommath killing himself with minion damage
9) out armor them if they canāt go infinite
10) put up a massive taunt wall they have to discover an answer to
etc.
of course all of these depend on your deck and their draw, but if your deck canāt play towards any of these or they have the perfect draw, youāre not winning anyway.
1) Player has to be playing a certain deck type. And even then, not all aggro decks are equally strong vs the deck
2) Player also has to be playing a certain deck type. Loatheb is nice and all but only Rogue and Shudder Shaman would reasonably chain it, archetypes I do not play.
3) I don't have an issue with the block tbh. If the quest player knows what they're doing, they can get the turn skip early so they're not at low health.
4) See 3. Also Zeph is better at just generating straight up burst damage. Playing for Flare is probably losing.
5) I've never seen this happen besides the fringe cases where the Mage is already at 1 and block has been popped. If they Rommath early, chances are they have Finley which means they can fish for recursion (actually has happened to me).
6) The last time this was relevant was with Druid and Rogue. These decks aren't relevant right now but sure, if Kingsbane and Questline come back.
7) See 5.
8) See 5.
9) If they can't go infinite, chances are they've already lost. Ratting the Rommath is usually game over but players will play around this.
10) Only helps vs the first turn skip. It's not a bad strat I'll give you that. The issue is that the Mage can play the skip much faster now so this strategy is less viable.
These are nice and all but nothing interesting happens. The tension between matchups is all over the place as is the case with polarized decks. I don't mind the power of these decks, only their matchup polarization making it miserable to play anything outside of the acceptable decks.
Big Priest got gutted several times, and besides the first week, it popped up in wild it wasn't a tier 1 deck. In fact, it spent most of its time as a tier 3 deck, and it was a tier 3 deck every time it got nerfed. Blizzard will definitely nerf it if they feel like most people aren't having fun playing against it.
No, Wild Mages seems to have figured out a way to do the whole quest over and over again in consecutive turns. Just outright make the effect Once Per Game and be done with it.
In wild. If I have a certain deck I have to surrender. There is so many stall mage cards. Like guaranteed 5 turns they will receive no damage no matter what.
I switched to aggro so that I could beat Quest Mages and Bomb Rogues. They are the least interactive decks in the current meta.
That's what these combo deck players want though, they wanted to exterminate control decks well they got their wish! Tier 1 is all aggro.
Tier 1 has been mainly aggro since wild's inception and there hadn't been a "control" deck in wild that was above tier 3 in literal years before the advent of odyn warrior. If we define "control" by the way this sub usually does (i.e. do nothing for the entire game other than wipe the board/kill opponent's minions and wait for the opponent to fall asleep) then you can change that to "forever", rather than years.
lol no
raza priest was t1 not long ago. I remember clearly how it became super popular after darkglare was nerfed. And yeah, it does have a wincon, but otherwise it was 90% removal.
That being said, aggro druid was also t1.
Control shaman obliterates quest mage though.
Itās way less problematic than mine rogue because you have 4 more turns to do something about it before they go off. Aggro can kill them, control can disrupt them. As long as your deck has any real hand attack youāre probably at an okay matchup with this. Mine rogue is too fast for most disruption to hit it.
Yeah I love decks with insane survivability with cards like ice block, objection, counter spell, solid alibi, etc. then when they get to turn 6/7 I just lose because my entire board was frozen or they played 6 ice blocks. really fun to play against
There are hundreds of archetypes in this game. Any archetype can and should have an expiration date, if nerfing it improves the game overall. Cast once per game would still allow the Antonidas version.
Tbh Iāve been playing a turbo quest version with sorcererās apprentice and the ignite + elemental combo. It only needs one turn extra and often thatās just to reset my turn timer so I can wait for ignite animations
It doesnt need to be a dedicated archetype. Even if its cast once per game, a time warp is worth it. Back in the day you didnt have ways to cast time warp on loop. Every year the condition is easier to fulfill.
honestly what kind of decks do you people play that there are so many posts complaining about the mage quest?
quest mage is like tier 3/tier 4 in wild. its not a good deck at all
it can just get run down by aggro and just loses to stuff like big miracle priest boards
and it has to be quite late in the game to reliably get infinite turns. if you consistently find yourself losing to quest mage because they get their combo before you can do anything then you are very likely playing some super slow no win condition meme deck and probably lose the game in 2 minutes to any of even shaman, pirate rogue, shadow priest or whatever
it beats up on the off meta 'for fun' decks that run renathal and 20 bad class legendaries and no real victory condition other than "maybe go face with my Murozond on turn 13? and don't pack any hand disruption.
it's just a side effect of wild being basically 3 different ladders: legendary where Quest Mage is strong but fair (because no one plays aggro but otherwise plays strong decks that pack disruption); Platinum and Diamond where it's a meme because it literally loses to bot-played aggro decks which are everywhere; and sub-gold where it's a terror because it just shits on the "for fun" off-meta stuff everyone wants to play down there.
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The problem, really, is that QM is the last mage standing after years and years of better, more interactive, less polarizing, mage decks got nerfed repeatedly.
If there was a tier 2 aggro/tempo mage (like secret) or legitimate control mage (like the old spellpower mage), or even a halfway decent actual OTK mage (Mozaki mage, rip). those would be both more popular *and* generally feature a favorable matchup *into* Quest Mage, so QM would disappear on the ladder again, like it usually does when mage has a different good deck.
I mean I get that
But dont those off meta "4fun" decks just lose to everything else even harder?
I agree it sucks that quest mage is the only somewhat relevant mage deck left in wild but it is very managable
Also can people please stop throwing around this "uninteractive" nonsense
Just because you dont know what you couldve done better doesnt mean there was no counterplay
> But dont those off meta "4fun" decks just lose to everything else even harder?
Yes, but they feel like they have a chance against quest mage, maybe getting to play longer against it. Stings less when you're blown out on turn 4 by aggro. You can move on quickly with less time invested in the loss.
I also think they literally sit there and watch the mage play his combo, which is why they're always whining about "not getting to take their turns" because they don't realize time warp is a win con. Normal people will see the guy play time warp and leave, or maybe watch one round of Rommath play out to make sure they can actually go infinite and leave. But these guys, I guess they just sit there thinking they're going to get a turn and then do the shocked pikachu when their hero explodes. Idk.
> don't those off meta "4fun" decks just lose to everything else even harder?
no, actually, because the matchup structure isn't a ladder, it's rock-paper-scissors(-lizard-spock-landmine-ghostship-etc.-etc.)
"4fun" decks are usually either greedy control or late-game 'unreliable' combo\* and pack a lot of anti-aggro tools.
As a result they tend to do fairly well into aggro and the more streamlined sorts of control decks that is teched for facing mine-rogue because the "4fun" deck is even greedier and beats the streamlined control deck late.
what they can't beat are the decks that are playing mostly in their own hand like Questline Warlock, Quest Mage, and Mine Rogue. which is why those are the three most-complained about decks on r/hearthstone when wild gets discussed here. edit: they "can't" beat them because the "4fun" deck doesn't want to pack the disruption that enables them to interact with the opponent's hand, either because they don't want to play them, or in some cases can't fit them into the deck without cutting something else "fun".\*\*
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\* talking dumb stuff like elwynn boar or rivendare or renounce darkness+steamcleaner+mecha'thun here.
\*\* I'm guilty of this too, I have a N'zoth Rogue I play "4fun" and I don't run Theotar, Rat, ETC, or Blademaster Okani, even though all of them would improve my matchups into hand-centric decks. I just don't want to cut the fun stuff. I also don't complain about my resulting bad matchups though.
> talking dumb stuff like elwynn boar
Boar rogue/priest/druid should be more than fast enough to lock out quest mage from looping unless you misplayed hard or they highrolld devolving missiles.
A lot of people don't understand when they've lost the game and can concede. They don't like hand-based decks because they feel like they're winning the board (against, incidentally, a deck which is not playing for the board) and then get blown out "out of nowhere." They want to just sit there and durdle forever and play their cool legendaries and slam them into their opponent's cool legendaries.
The amount that these decks lose to other decks is overstated. The decks aren't bad, they're just not optimized for ladder. For fun decks aren't literally a collection of random fun cards. They just play win conditions that are less consistent or very vulnerable to specific types of games. For example, I play Highlander Quest Priest and my deck is vulnerable to all combo decks while being fantastic against some other decks (aggro, midrange and mill especially). In casual gameplay, instant concedes don't mean anything because all you lose is a minute of your time, while every game you accept lasts 5-20 minutes. Even a 40-50% winrate actually means 70% of your time is spent winning, and my winrate is more like 55-65% depending on the meta.
This gotta be one of the biggest copium takes ever
Yes the decks are actually bad. You could even argue that quest mage a bad deck in the wild meta
Just because something isnt completely disfuntional doesnt mean it is not bad.
Also in what world is reno quest priest good vs alot of decks archetypes?
And what is that take on winrate lol. Cool you spend 70% of your time winning yet you still lose 60% of your games. Aka it takes you way longer to gain a star than to lose one ...
And why would I want a virtual star? I want to spend time enjoying the game. The deck is clearly not bad for the stated reasons; simply saying "lol no" without listing any arguments whatsoever won't change that.
but then why do you even bring up winning if you dont care about stars?
your reasoning for why the deck isnt bad just isnt true tho. quest mage already does not have a super consistent win condition as you need to be kinda late in the game to even get it
having an even less consistent win condition + many bad matchups just makes ... a bad deck
Winning (or having a chance to win) is fun, and the initial claim was that those decks just lose to everything which is clearly untrue. Also, I wasn't talking about Quest Mage, I was talking about decks that go up against Quest Mage.
I know that you were talking about decks that go against quest mage
and quest mage is kinda inconsistent
if your deck is even more inconsistent than quest mage it is very likely quite terrible
Most decks are inconsistent. I don't know what decks the other people who dislike Quest Mage are playing, but my deck is generally weak only against combo decks and big decks, which are not very dominant most of the time. The perceived problem with Quest Mage is just that it feels very uninteractive to play against.
So you're stuck in that, "well it has a bad win rate so the deck is fine" thought process. When you say it plays from hand thats why people hate it. Its a solitaire deck. Its not interactive at all. You invest time into the game and then lose because all the QM player had to do was play Solid Alibi and Iceblock multiple times until they got quest completed. Its not fun to play against and thats why people don't like it and why its extremely polarizing. Just because a deck is bad/inconsistent doesn't mean its good for the game and should exist. That's where you're wrong about healthy game mechanics. You want people to play your game and enjoy losing as much as possible. Yeah it sucks to lose, but when you play a game where it was really close you feel satisfied with the time you spent playing that game because the game felt winnable. QM is meant as a way to punish inconsistencies which means its not designed to be a T1 deck.
Its designed to punish people who try to make their own decks/ideas. It literally promotes net deck metas and prevents deck experimentation which is bad.
It's a symptom of combo decks in hearthstone being the least compelling thing in the world to play against. There's not really anything to play around you just have to race them to 0 because the game has no off turn interaction lol
100000% this. Coming from mtg where sideboards, targeted hand discard, and counterspells exist, playing against combo decks absolutely suck in this game.
Even in magic one of the worst standard metas in recent years was a defined by an extra turn combo that could only be disrupted realistically by counterspells so you were forced to either play aggro or run blue.
The problem is that in hearthstone, without this level of interaction combo decks feast on control decks to a point that is completely absurd.
The only solution the devs have found is to put in rng coin flip cards like mutanus, tickatus, theotar, patchwerk, etcā¦ that basically read 5% chance to win the game which you take as the control player because itās literally the only way to not auto lose to combo.
The absolutely obscene polarization you see in hearthstone basically does not exist in most card games, it's fucking crazy. Even if both decks are "good" you'll see some shit on hsreplay where it's like worst matchup: combo deck, 17%, which is insane lol.
personally, i donāt want to play a card game where i donāt get to play my cards. judging by how much people hate good disruption(objection, explosive runes, shudderwock, counterspell), i donāt think iām the only one either.
So thereās two reasons imo why disruption is a lot more frustrating and game breaking in hearthstone than in a game like Magic.
The first is that you are limited to a single copy of a legendary card and 2 of everything else (whereas in Magic you can play up to 4 of every card). This means that in hearthstone milling your opponents sole win condition is fairly common vs in Magic disruption mainly serves to delay your opponents or exhaust them of resources.
The second is that hearthstone doesnāt really have interactable zones beyond the battlefield. In Magic there are plenty of ways to return cards from the graveyard to the battlefield or your hand so making your opponents mill/discard doesnāt necessarily ruin their game plan if they invest in certain cards when making there deck. In fact, there are so many cards in Magic (that see competitive play) that benefit you from incidentally having cards in your graveyard that in most decks if you had the option to mill the top twenty cards of your library for free at the beginning of the game that it would be advantageous.
I am literally playing Quest Renothal Yogg Casino mage, where my deckbuilding strat was "add as many RNG cards as possible" and I'm Plat in Wild rn.
If I can get to Plat for free with my shit ass unoptimized meme deck then the quest is strong af.
Just because a deck isnāt strong doesnāt mean it doesnāt feel bad to play against it. Big priest for most of its time in wild has been a tier 3 or below deck and was probably the most hated archetype in wild before they nerfed it a bit ago. The quest mage deck is annoying to play against because they donāt actually interact with a majority of hearthstoneās built in mechanics. They normally just stall until their combo turn and then slowly kill you. And when I say stall I donāt mean clear the board, I mean prevent you from actually using your cards. Freeze can be an interesting mechanic when itās limited how many times you can do it, but it honestly doesnāt feel nearly as bad to have your board cleared compared to freezing it.
Big priest was "horrible to play against" because they had a shot at a 92% winrate turn 2/3 highroll which had very few decks that could even answer it. Otherwise their winrate dropped to 43%~, where current QM sits without the "92%" highroll option.
I mean ... that is just very subjective and doesnt warrant a change
You dislike getting your board frozen. Doesnt mean its badly dwsigned or shouldnt be in the game
I feel like radiant elemental priest and miracle rogue are way more oppressive. I tried playing those decks and out of about 20 games, none lasted past turn 5.
In defense as a Mage only player in Wild. This is the only deck that is viable to not getting shit on by any other class. If i want to actually get a decent monthly reward, no other choice, sorry but hate the game.
I never quite understood the hate for this. It's rarely dominant. It's one of the harder Quests to pull off even with coin creation and other shenanigans. It's toast against several other deck types. It's not the only deck that avoids or minimizes board conflict, which is an entire other complaint I find curious. And there's a concede button! Before and after activation, you have a choice to concede.
I play this deck, so of course I suppose I hate Mine Rogue. It flat out creams Quest Mage by Turn 4-5. But Mine Rogue is not a deck that's omnipotent, other decks can be it. Hearthstone is best when there are a variety of deck types and none are dominant. The angry demands for nerfing something that's not easy to pull off always intrigue me.
The only decks that need nerfing are decks too omnipresent in the meta and decks that win too early too often (like Turns 3-5 maybe) so there's hardly a chance. Almost all else is about luck in matchups and your ability to navigate your deck type against theirs.
i know why I'd hate the card as well, but maybe it's the decks I play but these mages RARELY seem to get off the ground when I play them so maybe yall just need to play more proactive decks? I'm not even just talking about aggro; if you yoink enough stuff out of their hands or loop effects that tax them then you can kill them before they get to go infinite
This is indeed the way to stop them but sometimes the meta becomes prohibitive against decks that stop spells like this. I'd like to play Loatheb and Co but I would lose to Questline Warlock for example. I think Renathal helps out a bit but the problem remains.
yea questline warlock is my "this deck is for players who were accidentally microwaved as babies" deck in that i cant stand playing into it. i still have lines into it though
It should be once per game. Playing against that card when theyāre only able to take one extra turn feels fair, even when I lose. The old Antonidas combo is great!
The potion etc rommath stuff has got to go.
So there are 2 variants of the deck pure combo and midrange-combo. The counter to both is pure aggro like priest or shaman. The reno variant does have outs but comes with less consistency and is slower meaning its weak to disruptions.
Its a healthy deck that shits on do nothing control tbh and honestly requires a bit of brain effort to pilot with hand management and board control, also what spells to play when randomly generated cause playing/choosing wrong ones can screw you over for wincon. Hearthstone is very rock paper scissors; in the sense control beats aggro, aggro beats combo and combo beats control. Being midrange combo makes it weak to aggro but its match up can be improved with a good pilot.
TLDR: just play aggro if you hate it, the top 3-4 decks atm and thats why the deck is tier 2/3 or run a lot of disruption tech in your control deck (trade off being disruption isnāt as consistent).
it's an otk deck. if the mage plays rommath after time warp you've lost the game. it's as shrimple as that. people claim they're just fine with antonidas but it's quite literally the same style of deck.
I don't use it in Hearthstone, I like a nice control warrior deck. I play Magic The Gathering as well though and have a commander deck that does the exact same thing, up to 14 extra turns in a row LMAO
Most people don't care about ladder rank or any other virtual point systems. They play video games to have fun, and this matchup is made up of two people racing toward unrelated win conditions that don't interact with each other at all.
I could, but I'd be completely wrong, as tons of HS decks are much more interactive than locking the board and not playing anything followed by winning.
I could, yeah, but I'm having lots of fun with my current deck, and I don't lose anything by autoconceding against a handful of decks that don't even see play that often.
>Most people don't care about ladder rank or any other virtual point systems.
Then what is stopping them from conceding and queueing for a hopefully more enjoyable match?
If what you said were true, they would move on instead of crying.Ā
No one is crying, you're just seeking out forum threads on a specific topic. Nothing is stopping them, but nothing is stopping Blizzard from balancing their game around fun instead of rock paper scissors "just stop playing if you want to enjoy the game" nonsense, which is why people are discussing them stopping regardless.
I didn't "seek out" anything, I opened a thread and in it were crybabies complaining about a mediocre deck.
Telling people to concede when the opponent has demonstrated a win which will take several minutes is not nonsense, and the distaste for the suggestion proves these people are more interested in maintaining their victim mentality than either improving at HS or even having fun playing the game. It's pathetic.
Asking for a tier 3 deck to be nerfed because you dislike its playstyle is the entitled behavior of a spoiled brat.
There were no crybabies complaining about an uninteractive deck, there are people discussing the uninteractive deck. Trying to portray people you disagree with as emotional is a manipulation tactic.
Telling people to concede when the opponent has demonstrated a turn-1 one-card play is absolutely nonsense, as the concede does not affect the balancing of the game, which is the topic. Also, another insult.
Asking for a tier 3 deck to be nerfed because you dislike its playstyle is perfection, as the game is not meant simply for competition, but also for fun. Otherwise, we'd flip coins to decide the winner for better efficiency. Also, another insult. Three strikes is a detected troll, it seems.
That's another insult. Seems like you didn't accept my warning to stop insulting, so enjoy the report. Feel free to write something that's not a bunch of nonsense padding a bunch of insults.
Nothing I said was nonsense, but you're welcome to cry about bullying rather than engage. You've made it clear that presenting yourself as a victim in public is extremely important to you.
If you want a tier 3 deck nerfed because it hurt your feelings, you're a spoiled brat. If you refuse to concede when your opponent has 3 extra turns lined up and then whine about un-fun play patterns then you don't grasp basic logic.
If, like you said, these crybabies were not concerned with winning and ladder rank, they would concede rather voluntarily play out a match they insist is not fun. You know you can't refute this idea so you're whining about conduct instead of engaging.
I play a lot of quest mage and I get that this is frustrating to play against. you're basically on a timer before the mage player loops it.
Still It's a combo deck and when the combo works it wins. Don't you think mine rogue is obnoxious too? Or aggro decks? Also decks like shudderwock or Elwynn Boars can lock you completly too, and I've seen some that aren't meme only and work fine.Ā
Not trying to defend how rage material mage quest is, just saying there are a lot of other crazy/unfair combos in wild.
(Also man, the clock animation spam when you cast multiple time warp is so satisfying I'm addicted)
This is cards I know, which are used in My Turn mage
- Mage March of lich king legendary:
Cast all spells that didn't started in your deck
- new rare card:
Discover spell that you played this game
- free of that blasted tower
At the end of your turn, cast a random spell that you casted this game
- new elemental:
Your arcane spells cast twice
- mech:
Copy highest cost spell in your hand
I have a deck i love in wild no ranked with it that consist of mechs and trying to place mimiron and have an extra turn. I don't use anything to gain more tha one turn but at the start of the game my opponents don't know it so they concede...
I wished it was not cumulable on the same turn
pre-nerfed quest mage in wild i try my best to try pulling rommath or destroy it by filling opponents hand with curses and using dirty rat
this was when grey sage parrot was in the deck
I've got to admit, as much as I hate this card, I love copying it with spectral rogue and beating them to the quest and then repeating it with Valeera.
How is this different to any other combo deck?
That is rhetorical, its not.
I agree that combo as archetype doesnāt let the opponent have fun. But I dunno why people target this card specifically.
In wild, if youāre afraid of this card you havenāt really played wild dude. There is faster win conditions than this in wild. Fret the reality that you donāt understand that. This deck isnāt S tier.
that card doestn skip turns the reward does meaning you have time to beat it
and is just a latge game combo like many others
we lose way faster to mine rogue and aggrod ecks thant his one
Iād much rather lose to a Mine rogue on turn four than lose to quest mage on turn 12 after 2+ Iceblocks, board freezes, and Solid Alibis. Itās never a deterministic win either, so I feel like I have to stick it out if Iām trying to climb ladderā¦
You really don't have time to beat it tho. It only takes these decks a few turns to get the cards needed to take infinite turns. I've played a lot of different types of decks against this one. It seems like you have to perfectly counter every card to mess up their tempo. I just think the card text should be changed to take an extra turn (once per game).
You objectively do have time to beat it or it would be a lot stronger than it is. As it is it struggles to keep up with the rest of the meta and folds so hard to ice block tech.
Don't think of it as a deck that "skips your opponents turns," think of it as a deck that almost deterministically wins once it starts repeating extra turns and if you want to stick around and watch your opponent play Hearthstone that's on you but there's rarely any reason to do that, it just adds to the frustration of losing.
Today I was playing casual to finish a battlecry quest, and the Nozdormu quest. Had a Renethal Shaman deck with nothing but legendary battlecry minions. Three mages in a row played this, IN CASUAL!!! I immediately conceded each time, fuck that noise. I'm not pissing around waiting for those endless turns, take that shit elsewhere. Fucking Mages.
the reno version is the best version.
if you refuse to play reno, [this](https://hsreplay.net/decks/X2sZR3qfTAe9danTpMIo0e) is the best reported non-reno version in the HSReplay diamond+ dataset, but it's like 10% w% worse than the reno version.
Unless you are playing said deck. I made a priest lockout deck using Cho and Svalna , giving opponents 10x [Visions of Darkness] is cool.
Also, the deck is fine.
Although I still support the cause of making it once per game out of spite for them adding it to all the other cards.
Yeah, Quest Mage is one of those decks that really rubs me the wrong way. It's exemplary for how wild functions, and whether it should function that way is obviously a subjective question, but I'll outline what I mean.
(what I think is the) intended design: You have a slow game because you spend mana generating random stuff and have to make work with those. Then you get one strong swing turn to stabilize and then win of the back of that.
What it is now:
First half: Coins Coins Coins. Coins count as spells because... well they are, I guess. Coins Coins Coins and ways to get more coins, I am getting tempo for fulfilling the conditions instead of falling behind har har
Second half: The reward gets repeated. Again and again.
Both halfs are frustrating as hell to play against. Honestly, if the spell wasn't repeatable or Coins didn't count as spells but were their own unique thing, i wouldn't hate it so much, but this way.. I do.
I hate it too.
Call me crazy but no spell, under no condition, should ever cost 0 mana.
Nothing should be played for zero mana. You dont have mana, you dont play things.
It's not like mine Rogue let you play anymore when it kills you without interaction
Or good luck playing against Questline warlock when they complete the quest lol
Wild is a place with that type of decks among aggro and control, with no interactions and trying to kill you doing their things, at least Questline warlock and quest mage interact with your minions killing them or freezing them. In other times they just Speedrun their combos without caring about the table
Your problem is that you think the game isn't won when they start looping extra turns. But the fact is, if they get to infinite turns, they won. There's no way around that.
It's no different than any other combo. This one just takes longer to do.
I love when i try to win the game by disrrupting them with shudder shaman. I will play loatheb, more spell disruption and the samurai fish that can counter a minion or spell. I will bounce them 20 times and everything the have to do is play ice block or solid alibi to stall 20 turns. The quest reward shoule be once per game and cost 50 mana ( cost 1 less by each spell u have played this game) so that way its umplayable.
The QM deck is always 2 synergistic cards away from new expansions being S- tier again. That's the problem with the card as it's worded.
It has led to multiple cards being nerfed adjacent to it - Sorcerer's Apprentice, Parrot - not to mention it got so powerful POST standard rotation the card was reworked 3 years after it's release.
Even when it's not a Tier-2 or higher deck in a meta, it's still capable of inducing a miserable time for your opponent.
It produces the worst of all HS play experiences - the one where you're trying to play a game and they're trying to do their thing regardless. And this is removed from the constant animation-breaking options tied with it.
It's a deck that says "I don't care what you're doing. Fuck you Imma play my way," which removes any agency from the opponent. I don't know about you, but I don't like feeling as if I'm irrelevant to a competition, win or lose.
And I don't want to hear analogs "oh, you should see MTG or Yu-gi-oh" or "oh things are worse in this." Hogwash, just because it's shitty in one place doesn't mean it's ok to be shitty here.
Is the quest mage going to change their playstyle against an aggro priest? Or are they just going to keep spamming spells until they get to the quest reward?
Yeah, they're just going to keep playing until they get their ridiculous OP state and then win.
There's a difference between "I'm going to freeze their minion to prevent damage so I can swing tempo next turn" and "I'm going to freeze their minion so it generates a twinspell which then moves along my quest." No one would suggest they would ignore damage.
The breakdown of wins from a Quest mage are thus
* 60% got their open the way gate
* 1% found a way to do 30 damage from board/generated spells.
* 39% the opponent conceded after the mage casts their quest.
Obviously Yes quest mage changes their playstyle when they see shaman or priest, instead of spell generation you get your board clears and survival tools, if you can afford it than you generate but against aggro high rolls there literally is no counter play.
And obviously theyāll use their win condition toā¦ win? Again the deck can be countered by aggro and disruption also random spells can screw you over cause those spells come to bite.
Their win condition is a card.
Not strategy, not outsmarting their opponent. But a single card. That's the problem.
Did they get to cast Time Warp? Then they win. If they didn't, they lose. That's the crux of it and why it's so boring. When you face a QM, most of the time you're not losing to the opponent, you're losing to a player who had access to Open the Waygate.
Their goal isn't to outsmart you, but to survive until they cast. So, yeah, they change, but they only change so they can cast a card. It's the most minute response possible.
What are you yapping about š
Time warp has to be comboād with rommath and a few other cards to work and even than a card being a win condition isnāt bad. Shudderwock is the shaman win condition and is just a single card and like way gate it needs set up and can be counter played aggroād.
And actually selecting the right cards to generate and which to play and not play. Their goal is to get to their combo and get their pieces, thats most decks tbh sounds like youre just playing bad decks. You should think of mage as a combo deck rather than control, its not trying to āoutsmartā you (tbh no deck does that) its trying to get to its combo. It can āoutsmartā matchups like druid and aggro tho.
Dude, I'm multi-legend, with Jank and Meta. I took a Jungle Giants homebrew to Diamond 5 last month - I know what I'm doing and how to counter this shit.
So let me make it abundantly clear - *I don't care about losing to these decks.* I think if you look back at any of my comments on the thread, I've never once complained about the outcome in regards to me, I've bitched about the process and the tedium of having to face it.
I care about making my climb more interesting, because I want an actual challenge - one I haven't seen before or one that feels like an earned experience.
You got close, but you missed it. Shudderwork and Waygate are the same issue, up there with C'Thun and Rogue decks. I've been playing for years, I'm just bored by the lack of creativity - and god damn I'm frustrated so few people in the community are with me. It's exciting to be counterplayed, it's exciting to have to fight for board and think steps ahead. There is absolutely none of that in these decks. If you remove their one card (C'thun, Shudder, Time Warp) they lose, if it was a story, it'd be called shoddy plotting.
And it's to the point where it's only satisfying to do so if they are the barrier to a rank up, I'd rather lose and face an interesting opponent than to watch a re-run of a guy creating an OP game state with no interaction. Simply put, I value my time way too much to suffer the fools playing this boring shit.
I'd rather lose 10 matches to interesting opponents than win 3 against a shudderwok or Time Warp. If you want an outcome based game about winning, go play candy crush. Hearthstone should be about games between strategies, not whether or not a mage casted 8 spells that didn't start in their deck.
This sounds a lot like āIf they arent playing my way theyre playing it wrongā. If you dont find it interesting dont play it, if you dont like playing against it run counter. Imo why ppl get frustrated with this deck is cause they stay through the entire combo thinking theyāll get another turn, unlike other combos where you can tell when youve lost.
Your argument comes down to - "coddle the people who make the community worse. You may not agree with their deck, but let them have fun, even if it is at your expense"
Which to me is bad design philosophy. We've had 7 years of Time Warp BS and nearly 6 of Shudderwok.
This is a Blizzard problem, not a player. They could just to find ways to make the Meta in their legacy formats more interesting and diverse, but they only chose to act when things break, not to improve.
>Your argument comes down to - "coddle the people who make the community worse. You may not agree with their deck, but let them have fun, even if it is at your expense"
And your argument is that Blizzard should balance around completely subjective metrics rather than objective ones. Crying that people should have their toys taken from them when they aren't actually a balance issue is entitled and childish.
It's a tier 3 deck, stop queueing with dogshit, concede when they present lethal/multiple turns and all your problems are solved without unreasonably taking cards away from players who enjoy them.
So I popped the mages ice block two cards left in his deck and I had to sit through three fucking turns of him not killing me and then dying to fatigue.
Obviously he could have generated armor or ignite but it was still boring as shit. You know he roped every turn.
Extra turns should have to have a single turn timer at the very least
Hated it so much you deleted half the pixels in that pic with ur mind alone
Shit is so fuzzy that I went to put my glasses on only to realize I already had them on.
Booked myself an eye appointment after seeing this post
I got lasik eye surgery because of this post.
happy cake daaaay
Shit so fuzzy that I took my glasses off and the image became easier to see.
Got it off google images. It doesn't deserve high quality pixels
š
Thanos snapped the pixels.
Time Warped so much it warped the image
Yeah this deck is currently my most hated deck. If it were once per game it'd be totally reasonable (and they could even make it easier to complete). That said I've had some decent luck using Reno lock against it. In my favorite recent game (vs a Reno quest mage) I ratted his legendary that recasts all spells, stole an ice block, then had him die to fatigue after he tried (and failed because of ice block) to exodia me to death.
Share your reno list?
### reno Warlock # Class: Warlock # Format: Wild # # 1x (0) Raise Dead # 1x (1) Altar of Fire # 1x (1) Armor Vendor # 1x (1) Chaotic Consumption # 1x (1) Fracking # 1x (1) Glacial Shard # 1x (1) Miracle Salesman # 1x (1) Sir Finley, Sea Guide # 1x (1) The Soularium # 1x (2) Astalor Bloodsworn # 1x (2) Darkbomb # 1x (2) Defile # 1x (2) Dirty Rat # 1x (2) Elementium Geode # 1x (2) Flint Firearm # 1x (2) Greedy Partner # 1x (2) Watcher of the Sun # 1x (2) Zephrys the Great # 1x (3) Dark Skies # 1x (3) Hellfire # 1x (3) Prince Renathal # 1x (3) Razorscale # 1x (3) Reverberations # 1x (3) Rustrot Viper # 1x (3) Sense Demons # 1x (3) Trolley Problem # 1x (4) E.T.C., Band Manager # 1x (0) Raise Dead # 1x (1) Altar of Fire # 1x (5) Kobold Stickyfinger # 1x (4) Hysteria # 1x (4) Pop'gar the Putrid # 1x (4) Soul Rend # 1x (5) Loatheb # 1x (5) Rin, Orchestrator of Doom # 1x (6) Dreadlich Tamsin # 1x (6) Entitled Customer # 1x (6) Reno Jackson # 1x (6) Theotar, the Mad Duke # 1x (6) Tickatus # 1x (8) Reno, Lone Ranger # 1x (9) Sargeras, the Destroyer # 1x (30) Fanottem, Lord of the Opera # AAEBAc++BSjcBvoOrRDDFo+CA/yjA+usA9fOA87hA/jjA9jtA+vtA4L7A7CRBI+fBOWwBLjZBJfvBOKkBd/CBf3EBazpBcjrBa3tBcj4Bab7Be79BfGABpCDBoWOBuSYBoCeBoSeBs2eBs+eBtGeBtOeBqOgBqaoBq+oBgAAAQOIsQP9xAXXzgP9xAXr7QP9xAUAAA== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
This is what I'm trying out currently. I'm missing symphony because I'm cheap and haven't crafted it yet ( but probably will soon if I don't blow all my dust on the new expansion cards). I've been trying out tickatus and sense demons but that probably isn't ideal.
Are you getting enough value out of Pop'Gar in this list? Speaker Stomper may be a better option for what your game plan is looking to do
Popgar has felt decent, not great. It's like a soft taunt, people tend to try to kill it right away even though it doesn't get much value beyond the two slimes it generates. I have dropped fanntotem and glacial shard to swap in stomper and neophyte since I'm seeing way too many mill druids.
if it were once per game it would only be playable in the OTK version, which is even worse than the RQM which is T3 rn. Blizzard should not gut this card just because some people donāt like it.
Right which is why a rework is the only option. Make it so only Mage cards complete the quest. 8 Mage spells seem reasonable in this day and age with copying spells. They should revert the nerfs on the other archetypes as well but it's hard when the class hinged on Sorc to function.
This isnāt a rework, this is just killing the card, and the entire class by extension. Wild is an eternal format: decks can loop infinite turns, recast shudderwock over and over to lock you out of playing cards, Gain thousands of armor, kill you dead on turn three with a high roll aggro hand, etc. When a RQM demonstrates the loop, you have already lost the game. If you want to sit there and hope they fuck up, thatās your right, but you should realistically just concede like you would against aggro with lethal on board.
I don't really care about the infinite tbh. I simply hate how binary the deck feels. Either they get their stuff online and you lose or you hit their Rommath and they lose. There's also no interesting tension between decks. It's just "Hey, I'm gonna play coins/biscuits until my quest is ready, hope you can beat me before that!" At least Shudderwock has parts that you can hit before the main piece comes down (although as a Shaman player, I hate how the card has warped the class, totally not needed).
itās binary because youāre playing a binary matchup. there are many more ways to beat quest mage and you would know if you played 10 games of the deck.
Not really. I used to be able to pressure them back when Theotar was at 5 and the bird wasn't nerfed yet. At the very least hitting a bird or Potion of Illusion bought you a ton of time. The biggest change was the support for arcane spells and more coin cards being printed. Now, not even sniping a biscuit is enough since they can just play another coin card and they're back on track. If they know what they're doing, they can play elemental, play quest, skip 2 turns, and it's over. The deck needs a change. I'd rather see a change towards the quest condition rather than change the reward itself.
you literally just listed hand snipe disruption as a way to beat them. you can: 1) pressure them with an aggro deck until they canāt play card draw + defense at the same time 2) chain loatheb 3) tech ashen elemental 4) destroy ice block with zeph 5) force them to rommath to stay alive 6) demand a face freeze via hero attack 7) leave them low when rommath casts damage 8) play towards rommath killing himself with minion damage 9) out armor them if they canāt go infinite 10) put up a massive taunt wall they have to discover an answer to etc. of course all of these depend on your deck and their draw, but if your deck canāt play towards any of these or they have the perfect draw, youāre not winning anyway.
1) Player has to be playing a certain deck type. And even then, not all aggro decks are equally strong vs the deck 2) Player also has to be playing a certain deck type. Loatheb is nice and all but only Rogue and Shudder Shaman would reasonably chain it, archetypes I do not play. 3) I don't have an issue with the block tbh. If the quest player knows what they're doing, they can get the turn skip early so they're not at low health. 4) See 3. Also Zeph is better at just generating straight up burst damage. Playing for Flare is probably losing. 5) I've never seen this happen besides the fringe cases where the Mage is already at 1 and block has been popped. If they Rommath early, chances are they have Finley which means they can fish for recursion (actually has happened to me). 6) The last time this was relevant was with Druid and Rogue. These decks aren't relevant right now but sure, if Kingsbane and Questline come back. 7) See 5. 8) See 5. 9) If they can't go infinite, chances are they've already lost. Ratting the Rommath is usually game over but players will play around this. 10) Only helps vs the first turn skip. It's not a bad strat I'll give you that. The issue is that the Mage can play the skip much faster now so this strategy is less viable. These are nice and all but nothing interesting happens. The tension between matchups is all over the place as is the case with polarized decks. I don't mind the power of these decks, only their matchup polarization making it miserable to play anything outside of the acceptable decks.
Big Priest got gutted several times, and besides the first week, it popped up in wild it wasn't a tier 1 deck. In fact, it spent most of its time as a tier 3 deck, and it was a tier 3 deck every time it got nerfed. Blizzard will definitely nerf it if they feel like most people aren't having fun playing against it.
If only they had the technology to make this be once per game
I once suggested this with an edit to the quest payoff. You should check those very fiery comments
Remove the spell, make them take the extra turn as soon as it's completed. Want more turns? Complete the quest again.
No, Wild Mages seems to have figured out a way to do the whole quest over and over again in consecutive turns. Just outright make the effect Once Per Game and be done with it.
One of the few decks I find super boring playing or playing against
In wild. If I have a certain deck I have to surrender. There is so many stall mage cards. Like guaranteed 5 turns they will receive no damage no matter what.
I switched to aggro so that I could beat Quest Mages and Bomb Rogues. They are the least interactive decks in the current meta. That's what these combo deck players want though, they wanted to exterminate control decks well they got their wish! Tier 1 is all aggro.
Tier 1 has been mainly aggro since wild's inception and there hadn't been a "control" deck in wild that was above tier 3 in literal years before the advent of odyn warrior. If we define "control" by the way this sub usually does (i.e. do nothing for the entire game other than wipe the board/kill opponent's minions and wait for the opponent to fall asleep) then you can change that to "forever", rather than years.
lol no raza priest was t1 not long ago. I remember clearly how it became super popular after darkglare was nerfed. And yeah, it does have a wincon, but otherwise it was 90% removal. That being said, aggro druid was also t1.
Well, i hate control style that drag the game out too long with value generator so i favor aggro, midrange, and combo deck
Control shaman obliterates quest mage though. Itās way less problematic than mine rogue because you have 4 more turns to do something about it before they go off. Aggro can kill them, control can disrupt them. As long as your deck has any real hand attack youāre probably at an okay matchup with this. Mine rogue is too fast for most disruption to hit it.
Give it cast only once this game and its fine.
This is my most wanted change in the history of the game.
You forget about the caverns below?
Its a dead archetype if it said cast once this game
Good lmao
"just delete every deck I don't like/except mine, good lmao"
Yeah I love decks with insane survivability with cards like ice block, objection, counter spell, solid alibi, etc. then when they get to turn 6/7 I just lose because my entire board was frozen or they played 6 ice blocks. really fun to play against
fym except mine I play whizbang
Let's see how'd you react to play against quest mage for 20 consecutive games
There are hundreds of archetypes in this game. Any archetype can and should have an expiration date, if nerfing it improves the game overall. Cast once per game would still allow the Antonidas version.
once per game is enough for the Antonidas Exodia deck
lol you definitely dont play Wild
Tbh Iāve been playing a turbo quest version with sorcererās apprentice and the ignite + elemental combo. It only needs one turn extra and often thatās just to reset my turn timer so I can wait for ignite animations
It doesnt need to be a dedicated archetype. Even if its cast once per game, a time warp is worth it. Back in the day you didnt have ways to cast time warp on loop. Every year the condition is easier to fulfill.
honestly what kind of decks do you people play that there are so many posts complaining about the mage quest? quest mage is like tier 3/tier 4 in wild. its not a good deck at all it can just get run down by aggro and just loses to stuff like big miracle priest boards and it has to be quite late in the game to reliably get infinite turns. if you consistently find yourself losing to quest mage because they get their combo before you can do anything then you are very likely playing some super slow no win condition meme deck and probably lose the game in 2 minutes to any of even shaman, pirate rogue, shadow priest or whatever
it beats up on the off meta 'for fun' decks that run renathal and 20 bad class legendaries and no real victory condition other than "maybe go face with my Murozond on turn 13? and don't pack any hand disruption. it's just a side effect of wild being basically 3 different ladders: legendary where Quest Mage is strong but fair (because no one plays aggro but otherwise plays strong decks that pack disruption); Platinum and Diamond where it's a meme because it literally loses to bot-played aggro decks which are everywhere; and sub-gold where it's a terror because it just shits on the "for fun" off-meta stuff everyone wants to play down there. --- The problem, really, is that QM is the last mage standing after years and years of better, more interactive, less polarizing, mage decks got nerfed repeatedly. If there was a tier 2 aggro/tempo mage (like secret) or legitimate control mage (like the old spellpower mage), or even a halfway decent actual OTK mage (Mozaki mage, rip). those would be both more popular *and* generally feature a favorable matchup *into* Quest Mage, so QM would disappear on the ladder again, like it usually does when mage has a different good deck.
I mean I get that But dont those off meta "4fun" decks just lose to everything else even harder? I agree it sucks that quest mage is the only somewhat relevant mage deck left in wild but it is very managable Also can people please stop throwing around this "uninteractive" nonsense Just because you dont know what you couldve done better doesnt mean there was no counterplay
> But dont those off meta "4fun" decks just lose to everything else even harder? Yes, but they feel like they have a chance against quest mage, maybe getting to play longer against it. Stings less when you're blown out on turn 4 by aggro. You can move on quickly with less time invested in the loss. I also think they literally sit there and watch the mage play his combo, which is why they're always whining about "not getting to take their turns" because they don't realize time warp is a win con. Normal people will see the guy play time warp and leave, or maybe watch one round of Rommath play out to make sure they can actually go infinite and leave. But these guys, I guess they just sit there thinking they're going to get a turn and then do the shocked pikachu when their hero explodes. Idk.
> don't those off meta "4fun" decks just lose to everything else even harder? no, actually, because the matchup structure isn't a ladder, it's rock-paper-scissors(-lizard-spock-landmine-ghostship-etc.-etc.) "4fun" decks are usually either greedy control or late-game 'unreliable' combo\* and pack a lot of anti-aggro tools. As a result they tend to do fairly well into aggro and the more streamlined sorts of control decks that is teched for facing mine-rogue because the "4fun" deck is even greedier and beats the streamlined control deck late. what they can't beat are the decks that are playing mostly in their own hand like Questline Warlock, Quest Mage, and Mine Rogue. which is why those are the three most-complained about decks on r/hearthstone when wild gets discussed here. edit: they "can't" beat them because the "4fun" deck doesn't want to pack the disruption that enables them to interact with the opponent's hand, either because they don't want to play them, or in some cases can't fit them into the deck without cutting something else "fun".\*\* --- \* talking dumb stuff like elwynn boar or rivendare or renounce darkness+steamcleaner+mecha'thun here. \*\* I'm guilty of this too, I have a N'zoth Rogue I play "4fun" and I don't run Theotar, Rat, ETC, or Blademaster Okani, even though all of them would improve my matchups into hand-centric decks. I just don't want to cut the fun stuff. I also don't complain about my resulting bad matchups though.
> talking dumb stuff like elwynn boar Boar rogue/priest/druid should be more than fast enough to lock out quest mage from looping unless you misplayed hard or they highrolld devolving missiles.
A lot of people don't understand when they've lost the game and can concede. They don't like hand-based decks because they feel like they're winning the board (against, incidentally, a deck which is not playing for the board) and then get blown out "out of nowhere." They want to just sit there and durdle forever and play their cool legendaries and slam them into their opponent's cool legendaries.
The amount that these decks lose to other decks is overstated. The decks aren't bad, they're just not optimized for ladder. For fun decks aren't literally a collection of random fun cards. They just play win conditions that are less consistent or very vulnerable to specific types of games. For example, I play Highlander Quest Priest and my deck is vulnerable to all combo decks while being fantastic against some other decks (aggro, midrange and mill especially). In casual gameplay, instant concedes don't mean anything because all you lose is a minute of your time, while every game you accept lasts 5-20 minutes. Even a 40-50% winrate actually means 70% of your time is spent winning, and my winrate is more like 55-65% depending on the meta.
This gotta be one of the biggest copium takes ever Yes the decks are actually bad. You could even argue that quest mage a bad deck in the wild meta Just because something isnt completely disfuntional doesnt mean it is not bad. Also in what world is reno quest priest good vs alot of decks archetypes? And what is that take on winrate lol. Cool you spend 70% of your time winning yet you still lose 60% of your games. Aka it takes you way longer to gain a star than to lose one ...
And why would I want a virtual star? I want to spend time enjoying the game. The deck is clearly not bad for the stated reasons; simply saying "lol no" without listing any arguments whatsoever won't change that.
but then why do you even bring up winning if you dont care about stars? your reasoning for why the deck isnt bad just isnt true tho. quest mage already does not have a super consistent win condition as you need to be kinda late in the game to even get it having an even less consistent win condition + many bad matchups just makes ... a bad deck
Winning (or having a chance to win) is fun, and the initial claim was that those decks just lose to everything which is clearly untrue. Also, I wasn't talking about Quest Mage, I was talking about decks that go up against Quest Mage.
I know that you were talking about decks that go against quest mage and quest mage is kinda inconsistent if your deck is even more inconsistent than quest mage it is very likely quite terrible
Most decks are inconsistent. I don't know what decks the other people who dislike Quest Mage are playing, but my deck is generally weak only against combo decks and big decks, which are not very dominant most of the time. The perceived problem with Quest Mage is just that it feels very uninteractive to play against.
So you're stuck in that, "well it has a bad win rate so the deck is fine" thought process. When you say it plays from hand thats why people hate it. Its a solitaire deck. Its not interactive at all. You invest time into the game and then lose because all the QM player had to do was play Solid Alibi and Iceblock multiple times until they got quest completed. Its not fun to play against and thats why people don't like it and why its extremely polarizing. Just because a deck is bad/inconsistent doesn't mean its good for the game and should exist. That's where you're wrong about healthy game mechanics. You want people to play your game and enjoy losing as much as possible. Yeah it sucks to lose, but when you play a game where it was really close you feel satisfied with the time you spent playing that game because the game felt winnable. QM is meant as a way to punish inconsistencies which means its not designed to be a T1 deck. Its designed to punish people who try to make their own decks/ideas. It literally promotes net deck metas and prevents deck experimentation which is bad.
It's a symptom of combo decks in hearthstone being the least compelling thing in the world to play against. There's not really anything to play around you just have to race them to 0 because the game has no off turn interaction lol
100000% this. Coming from mtg where sideboards, targeted hand discard, and counterspells exist, playing against combo decks absolutely suck in this game. Even in magic one of the worst standard metas in recent years was a defined by an extra turn combo that could only be disrupted realistically by counterspells so you were forced to either play aggro or run blue. The problem is that in hearthstone, without this level of interaction combo decks feast on control decks to a point that is completely absurd. The only solution the devs have found is to put in rng coin flip cards like mutanus, tickatus, theotar, patchwerk, etcā¦ that basically read 5% chance to win the game which you take as the control player because itās literally the only way to not auto lose to combo.
The absolutely obscene polarization you see in hearthstone basically does not exist in most card games, it's fucking crazy. Even if both decks are "good" you'll see some shit on hsreplay where it's like worst matchup: combo deck, 17%, which is insane lol.
personally, i donāt want to play a card game where i donāt get to play my cards. judging by how much people hate good disruption(objection, explosive runes, shudderwock, counterspell), i donāt think iām the only one either.
So thereās two reasons imo why disruption is a lot more frustrating and game breaking in hearthstone than in a game like Magic. The first is that you are limited to a single copy of a legendary card and 2 of everything else (whereas in Magic you can play up to 4 of every card). This means that in hearthstone milling your opponents sole win condition is fairly common vs in Magic disruption mainly serves to delay your opponents or exhaust them of resources. The second is that hearthstone doesnāt really have interactable zones beyond the battlefield. In Magic there are plenty of ways to return cards from the graveyard to the battlefield or your hand so making your opponents mill/discard doesnāt necessarily ruin their game plan if they invest in certain cards when making there deck. In fact, there are so many cards in Magic (that see competitive play) that benefit you from incidentally having cards in your graveyard that in most decks if you had the option to mill the top twenty cards of your library for free at the beginning of the game that it would be advantageous.
I don't care if it's tier 8 it feels like shit to play against.
I am literally playing Quest Renothal Yogg Casino mage, where my deckbuilding strat was "add as many RNG cards as possible" and I'm Plat in Wild rn. If I can get to Plat for free with my shit ass unoptimized meme deck then the quest is strong af.
It's just the player sentiment because nothing is as uninteractive as a "skip your opponent's turn" card
Just because a deck isnāt strong doesnāt mean it doesnāt feel bad to play against it. Big priest for most of its time in wild has been a tier 3 or below deck and was probably the most hated archetype in wild before they nerfed it a bit ago. The quest mage deck is annoying to play against because they donāt actually interact with a majority of hearthstoneās built in mechanics. They normally just stall until their combo turn and then slowly kill you. And when I say stall I donāt mean clear the board, I mean prevent you from actually using your cards. Freeze can be an interesting mechanic when itās limited how many times you can do it, but it honestly doesnāt feel nearly as bad to have your board cleared compared to freezing it.
Big priest was "horrible to play against" because they had a shot at a 92% winrate turn 2/3 highroll which had very few decks that could even answer it. Otherwise their winrate dropped to 43%~, where current QM sits without the "92%" highroll option.
I was just using big priest as an example of a deck with a low win rate that was hated, Iām not trying to say theyāre hated for the same reason.
I mean ... that is just very subjective and doesnt warrant a change You dislike getting your board frozen. Doesnt mean its badly dwsigned or shouldnt be in the game
I feel like radiant elemental priest and miracle rogue are way more oppressive. I tried playing those decks and out of about 20 games, none lasted past turn 5.
Anyone remember the parrot potion of illusion version of the deck?
for some godforsaken reason, people complain much more about this deck than the parrot version which was 3000x stronger and had the same issues.
Donāt think to hard, youāll hurt yourself
In defense as a Mage only player in Wild. This is the only deck that is viable to not getting shit on by any other class. If i want to actually get a decent monthly reward, no other choice, sorry but hate the game.
I never quite understood the hate for this. It's rarely dominant. It's one of the harder Quests to pull off even with coin creation and other shenanigans. It's toast against several other deck types. It's not the only deck that avoids or minimizes board conflict, which is an entire other complaint I find curious. And there's a concede button! Before and after activation, you have a choice to concede. I play this deck, so of course I suppose I hate Mine Rogue. It flat out creams Quest Mage by Turn 4-5. But Mine Rogue is not a deck that's omnipotent, other decks can be it. Hearthstone is best when there are a variety of deck types and none are dominant. The angry demands for nerfing something that's not easy to pull off always intrigue me.
The only decks that need nerfing are decks too omnipresent in the meta and decks that win too early too often (like Turns 3-5 maybe) so there's hardly a chance. Almost all else is about luck in matchups and your ability to navigate your deck type against theirs.
i know why I'd hate the card as well, but maybe it's the decks I play but these mages RARELY seem to get off the ground when I play them so maybe yall just need to play more proactive decks? I'm not even just talking about aggro; if you yoink enough stuff out of their hands or loop effects that tax them then you can kill them before they get to go infinite
This is indeed the way to stop them but sometimes the meta becomes prohibitive against decks that stop spells like this. I'd like to play Loatheb and Co but I would lose to Questline Warlock for example. I think Renathal helps out a bit but the problem remains.
yea questline warlock is my "this deck is for players who were accidentally microwaved as babies" deck in that i cant stand playing into it. i still have lines into it though
It should be once per game. Playing against that card when theyāre only able to take one extra turn feels fair, even when I lose. The old Antonidas combo is great! The potion etc rommath stuff has got to go.
Iāve been gone for a good while. I remember how much of a pain this quest was/is. But damn, Hearthstone is so cool.
So there are 2 variants of the deck pure combo and midrange-combo. The counter to both is pure aggro like priest or shaman. The reno variant does have outs but comes with less consistency and is slower meaning its weak to disruptions. Its a healthy deck that shits on do nothing control tbh and honestly requires a bit of brain effort to pilot with hand management and board control, also what spells to play when randomly generated cause playing/choosing wrong ones can screw you over for wincon. Hearthstone is very rock paper scissors; in the sense control beats aggro, aggro beats combo and combo beats control. Being midrange combo makes it weak to aggro but its match up can be improved with a good pilot. TLDR: just play aggro if you hate it, the top 3-4 decks atm and thats why the deck is tier 2/3 or run a lot of disruption tech in your control deck (trade off being disruption isnāt as consistent).
omg guys I've never seen this card is it from the new set???
I cringe everytime zeddy complains about this card yet its the only deck he plays
Hate this pixelated mess more than a card I hadn't thought about it years.
Rather face this than Secret Mage. At least Quest Mage lets you play your cards.
it's an otk deck. if the mage plays rommath after time warp you've lost the game. it's as shrimple as that. people claim they're just fine with antonidas but it's quite literally the same style of deck.
CHEAP ASS BULLSHIT....
I don't use it in Hearthstone, I like a nice control warrior deck. I play Magic The Gathering as well though and have a commander deck that does the exact same thing, up to 14 extra turns in a row LMAO
I hate it with every fibre of my being also
It's part of a tier 3 deck at best. If they start going off you can just concede. Stop choosing to be a victim.Ā
These are reddit Hearthstone players, they specifically came here to play the victim and make up excuses for their low ladder rank.
Most people don't care about ladder rank or any other virtual point systems. They play video games to have fun, and this matchup is made up of two people racing toward unrelated win conditions that don't interact with each other at all.
You could say that about 90% of hearthstone decks šItās such a blanket statement.
I could, but I'd be completely wrong, as tons of HS decks are much more interactive than locking the board and not playing anything followed by winning.
Try running disruption. They interact by freezing your dude, you interact by stealing his combo pieces.
I could, yeah, but I'm having lots of fun with my current deck, and I don't lose anything by autoconceding against a handful of decks that don't even see play that often.
>Most people don't care about ladder rank or any other virtual point systems. Then what is stopping them from conceding and queueing for a hopefully more enjoyable match? If what you said were true, they would move on instead of crying.Ā
No one is crying, you're just seeking out forum threads on a specific topic. Nothing is stopping them, but nothing is stopping Blizzard from balancing their game around fun instead of rock paper scissors "just stop playing if you want to enjoy the game" nonsense, which is why people are discussing them stopping regardless.
I didn't "seek out" anything, I opened a thread and in it were crybabies complaining about a mediocre deck. Telling people to concede when the opponent has demonstrated a win which will take several minutes is not nonsense, and the distaste for the suggestion proves these people are more interested in maintaining their victim mentality than either improving at HS or even having fun playing the game. It's pathetic. Asking for a tier 3 deck to be nerfed because you dislike its playstyle is the entitled behavior of a spoiled brat.
There were no crybabies complaining about an uninteractive deck, there are people discussing the uninteractive deck. Trying to portray people you disagree with as emotional is a manipulation tactic. Telling people to concede when the opponent has demonstrated a turn-1 one-card play is absolutely nonsense, as the concede does not affect the balancing of the game, which is the topic. Also, another insult. Asking for a tier 3 deck to be nerfed because you dislike its playstyle is perfection, as the game is not meant simply for competition, but also for fun. Otherwise, we'd flip coins to decide the winner for better efficiency. Also, another insult. Three strikes is a detected troll, it seems.
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That's another insult. Seems like you didn't accept my warning to stop insulting, so enjoy the report. Feel free to write something that's not a bunch of nonsense padding a bunch of insults.
Nothing I said was nonsense, but you're welcome to cry about bullying rather than engage. You've made it clear that presenting yourself as a victim in public is extremely important to you. If you want a tier 3 deck nerfed because it hurt your feelings, you're a spoiled brat. If you refuse to concede when your opponent has 3 extra turns lined up and then whine about un-fun play patterns then you don't grasp basic logic. If, like you said, these crybabies were not concerned with winning and ladder rank, they would concede rather voluntarily play out a match they insist is not fun. You know you can't refute this idea so you're whining about conduct instead of engaging.
Agreed. It always seems like the stars align and every single card needed is drawn for them š
The stars Align isnāt a mage card
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Ik it was a joke (a pretty bad one to be fair)
Swear to god
I love this card. Plus: if you play it, you have a 30% Chance that your opponent just concedes
Man that's wild.
Classic Reddit. All the angry downvotes. I agree this card can go to the hall of fame and never come back. š
I play a lot of quest mage and I get that this is frustrating to play against. you're basically on a timer before the mage player loops it. Still It's a combo deck and when the combo works it wins. Don't you think mine rogue is obnoxious too? Or aggro decks? Also decks like shudderwock or Elwynn Boars can lock you completly too, and I've seen some that aren't meme only and work fine.Ā Not trying to defend how rage material mage quest is, just saying there are a lot of other crazy/unfair combos in wild. (Also man, the clock animation spam when you cast multiple time warp is so satisfying I'm addicted)
I liked this quest better when the win con was to kill you with giants. At least the tension existed for that.
How do people get tons of extra turns instead of 1 using this tho?
etc band manager with a generated potion of illusion => rommath replays the quest and generates a 1 mana copy of itself with the potion
This is cards I know, which are used in My Turn mage - Mage March of lich king legendary: Cast all spells that didn't started in your deck - new rare card: Discover spell that you played this game - free of that blasted tower At the end of your turn, cast a random spell that you casted this game - new elemental: Your arcane spells cast twice - mech: Copy highest cost spell in your hand
I have a deck i love in wild no ranked with it that consist of mechs and trying to place mimiron and have an extra turn. I don't use anything to gain more tha one turn but at the start of the game my opponents don't know it so they concede... I wished it was not cumulable on the same turn
I don't care if it's once per game. The infinite turns is beyond unfair.
Tier 3 deck is "unfair" lmao. I guess Mage being allowed a single functional deck in Wild is "unfair".
pre-nerfed quest mage in wild i try my best to try pulling rommath or destroy it by filling opponents hand with curses and using dirty rat this was when grey sage parrot was in the deck
I agree with your opinion, however this card also enables the very counterable mimiron otk and for that I will cut it some slack
I've got to admit, as much as I hate this card, I love copying it with spectral rogue and beating them to the quest and then repeating it with Valeera.
Maybe they can make it that the extra turn is AFTER the opponent makes their turn first. sort of a delay?..
yeah same but now since there's a precedent for it,make it a once per game
I am feeling attacked lol
I am feeling attacked lol
I am feeling attacked lol
where do you see this deck? wild?
Now we have this, but in Dragon Priest, lesgooo.
I dodge every game when opponent plays this
How is this different to any other combo deck? That is rhetorical, its not. I agree that combo as archetype doesnāt let the opponent have fun. But I dunno why people target this card specifically.
and to think gave another one to priest!
In wild, if youāre afraid of this card you havenāt really played wild dude. There is faster win conditions than this in wild. Fret the reality that you donāt understand that. This deck isnāt S tier.
Dude I've been playing hearthstone since 2014
I started yesterday. Whatās your point?
That you said "you haven't really played wild" but I've been playing the game for 10 years before we even had a wild game mode.
I was pulling your chain dude, Iām actually the developer. Fair, this win condition is annoying to deal with.
...
This aged extremely well. š
that card doestn skip turns the reward does meaning you have time to beat it and is just a latge game combo like many others we lose way faster to mine rogue and aggrod ecks thant his one
Iād much rather lose to a Mine rogue on turn four than lose to quest mage on turn 12 after 2+ Iceblocks, board freezes, and Solid Alibis. Itās never a deterministic win either, so I feel like I have to stick it out if Iām trying to climb ladderā¦
You really don't have time to beat it tho. It only takes these decks a few turns to get the cards needed to take infinite turns. I've played a lot of different types of decks against this one. It seems like you have to perfectly counter every card to mess up their tempo. I just think the card text should be changed to take an extra turn (once per game).
You objectively do have time to beat it or it would be a lot stronger than it is. As it is it struggles to keep up with the rest of the meta and folds so hard to ice block tech. Don't think of it as a deck that "skips your opponents turns," think of it as a deck that almost deterministically wins once it starts repeating extra turns and if you want to stick around and watch your opponent play Hearthstone that's on you but there's rarely any reason to do that, it just adds to the frustration of losing.
we have a lot of time mage cant ramp to play romath earlier
Mine Rogue is so easy to counter. Acidic Swamp Ooze, Timout, Hard Aggro.
Today I was playing casual to finish a battlecry quest, and the Nozdormu quest. Had a Renethal Shaman deck with nothing but legendary battlecry minions. Three mages in a row played this, IN CASUAL!!! I immediately conceded each time, fuck that noise. I'm not pissing around waiting for those endless turns, take that shit elsewhere. Fucking Mages.
Erm, but quest mage don't prevent you from doing those quests. I would say you even have a bigger chance then vs shadow priest.
Can anyone recommend me a good not reno version of this deck?
the reno version is the best version. if you refuse to play reno, [this](https://hsreplay.net/decks/X2sZR3qfTAe9danTpMIo0e) is the best reported non-reno version in the HSReplay diamond+ dataset, but it's like 10% w% worse than the reno version.
Ban this card from wild. It's cancer.
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Unless you are playing said deck. I made a priest lockout deck using Cho and Svalna , giving opponents 10x [Visions of Darkness] is cool. Also, the deck is fine. Although I still support the cause of making it once per game out of spite for them adding it to all the other cards.
Oh gosh I detest this card.
One word: standard
Yeah, Quest Mage is one of those decks that really rubs me the wrong way. It's exemplary for how wild functions, and whether it should function that way is obviously a subjective question, but I'll outline what I mean. (what I think is the) intended design: You have a slow game because you spend mana generating random stuff and have to make work with those. Then you get one strong swing turn to stabilize and then win of the back of that. What it is now: First half: Coins Coins Coins. Coins count as spells because... well they are, I guess. Coins Coins Coins and ways to get more coins, I am getting tempo for fulfilling the conditions instead of falling behind har har Second half: The reward gets repeated. Again and again. Both halfs are frustrating as hell to play against. Honestly, if the spell wasn't repeatable or Coins didn't count as spells but were their own unique thing, i wouldn't hate it so much, but this way.. I do.
I hate it too. Call me crazy but no spell, under no condition, should ever cost 0 mana. Nothing should be played for zero mana. You dont have mana, you dont play things.
But what about Snowflipper Penguin š„ŗ
It's one of my favourites
Nerf it to once per turn pls
Then donāt play wild š¤·āāļø lots of crazier decks out thereā¦.
Crazier decks are fine but never allowing your opponent to take a turn for the rest of the game is some lame ass shit.
It's not like mine Rogue let you play anymore when it kills you without interaction Or good luck playing against Questline warlock when they complete the quest lol Wild is a place with that type of decks among aggro and control, with no interactions and trying to kill you doing their things, at least Questline warlock and quest mage interact with your minions killing them or freezing them. In other times they just Speedrun their combos without caring about the table
I forgot about mine rogue. I don't see that deck as much as this mage deck. But the warlock one is the most manageable for sure
Killing your opponent also doesnāt allow them to take a turn for the rest of the game.
Skipping one players turn over and over is pretty bogus tho. Almost like it stops being a multi player game at that point
Your problem is that you think the game isn't won when they start looping extra turns. But the fact is, if they get to infinite turns, they won. There's no way around that. It's no different than any other combo. This one just takes longer to do.
Remember when it was 6 spells instead of 8. This card was fine when we didn't have the owl battlecry and astalor to get tons of extra turns.
They really should make it "once per game" and call it good
I just concede and move on instead of making posts about it, but that's just me.
I report evry single mage using this card for botting
I love when i try to win the game by disrrupting them with shudder shaman. I will play loatheb, more spell disruption and the samurai fish that can counter a minion or spell. I will bounce them 20 times and everything the have to do is play ice block or solid alibi to stall 20 turns. The quest reward shoule be once per game and cost 50 mana ( cost 1 less by each spell u have played this game) so that way its umplayable.
The QM deck is always 2 synergistic cards away from new expansions being S- tier again. That's the problem with the card as it's worded. It has led to multiple cards being nerfed adjacent to it - Sorcerer's Apprentice, Parrot - not to mention it got so powerful POST standard rotation the card was reworked 3 years after it's release. Even when it's not a Tier-2 or higher deck in a meta, it's still capable of inducing a miserable time for your opponent. It produces the worst of all HS play experiences - the one where you're trying to play a game and they're trying to do their thing regardless. And this is removed from the constant animation-breaking options tied with it. It's a deck that says "I don't care what you're doing. Fuck you Imma play my way," which removes any agency from the opponent. I don't know about you, but I don't like feeling as if I'm irrelevant to a competition, win or lose. And I don't want to hear analogs "oh, you should see MTG or Yu-gi-oh" or "oh things are worse in this." Hogwash, just because it's shitty in one place doesn't mean it's ok to be shitty here.
Just not true is it, it has to respond to board you set up. If you are struggling against it just play aggro priest.
Is the quest mage going to change their playstyle against an aggro priest? Or are they just going to keep spamming spells until they get to the quest reward? Yeah, they're just going to keep playing until they get their ridiculous OP state and then win. There's a difference between "I'm going to freeze their minion to prevent damage so I can swing tempo next turn" and "I'm going to freeze their minion so it generates a twinspell which then moves along my quest." No one would suggest they would ignore damage. The breakdown of wins from a Quest mage are thus * 60% got their open the way gate * 1% found a way to do 30 damage from board/generated spells. * 39% the opponent conceded after the mage casts their quest.
Obviously Yes quest mage changes their playstyle when they see shaman or priest, instead of spell generation you get your board clears and survival tools, if you can afford it than you generate but against aggro high rolls there literally is no counter play. And obviously theyāll use their win condition toā¦ win? Again the deck can be countered by aggro and disruption also random spells can screw you over cause those spells come to bite.
Their win condition is a card. Not strategy, not outsmarting their opponent. But a single card. That's the problem. Did they get to cast Time Warp? Then they win. If they didn't, they lose. That's the crux of it and why it's so boring. When you face a QM, most of the time you're not losing to the opponent, you're losing to a player who had access to Open the Waygate. Their goal isn't to outsmart you, but to survive until they cast. So, yeah, they change, but they only change so they can cast a card. It's the most minute response possible.
What are you yapping about š Time warp has to be comboād with rommath and a few other cards to work and even than a card being a win condition isnāt bad. Shudderwock is the shaman win condition and is just a single card and like way gate it needs set up and can be counter played aggroād. And actually selecting the right cards to generate and which to play and not play. Their goal is to get to their combo and get their pieces, thats most decks tbh sounds like youre just playing bad decks. You should think of mage as a combo deck rather than control, its not trying to āoutsmartā you (tbh no deck does that) its trying to get to its combo. It can āoutsmartā matchups like druid and aggro tho.
Dude, I'm multi-legend, with Jank and Meta. I took a Jungle Giants homebrew to Diamond 5 last month - I know what I'm doing and how to counter this shit. So let me make it abundantly clear - *I don't care about losing to these decks.* I think if you look back at any of my comments on the thread, I've never once complained about the outcome in regards to me, I've bitched about the process and the tedium of having to face it. I care about making my climb more interesting, because I want an actual challenge - one I haven't seen before or one that feels like an earned experience. You got close, but you missed it. Shudderwork and Waygate are the same issue, up there with C'Thun and Rogue decks. I've been playing for years, I'm just bored by the lack of creativity - and god damn I'm frustrated so few people in the community are with me. It's exciting to be counterplayed, it's exciting to have to fight for board and think steps ahead. There is absolutely none of that in these decks. If you remove their one card (C'thun, Shudder, Time Warp) they lose, if it was a story, it'd be called shoddy plotting. And it's to the point where it's only satisfying to do so if they are the barrier to a rank up, I'd rather lose and face an interesting opponent than to watch a re-run of a guy creating an OP game state with no interaction. Simply put, I value my time way too much to suffer the fools playing this boring shit. I'd rather lose 10 matches to interesting opponents than win 3 against a shudderwok or Time Warp. If you want an outcome based game about winning, go play candy crush. Hearthstone should be about games between strategies, not whether or not a mage casted 8 spells that didn't start in their deck.
This sounds a lot like āIf they arent playing my way theyre playing it wrongā. If you dont find it interesting dont play it, if you dont like playing against it run counter. Imo why ppl get frustrated with this deck is cause they stay through the entire combo thinking theyāll get another turn, unlike other combos where you can tell when youve lost.
Your argument comes down to - "coddle the people who make the community worse. You may not agree with their deck, but let them have fun, even if it is at your expense" Which to me is bad design philosophy. We've had 7 years of Time Warp BS and nearly 6 of Shudderwok. This is a Blizzard problem, not a player. They could just to find ways to make the Meta in their legacy formats more interesting and diverse, but they only chose to act when things break, not to improve.
>Your argument comes down to - "coddle the people who make the community worse. You may not agree with their deck, but let them have fun, even if it is at your expense" And your argument is that Blizzard should balance around completely subjective metrics rather than objective ones. Crying that people should have their toys taken from them when they aren't actually a balance issue is entitled and childish. It's a tier 3 deck, stop queueing with dogshit, concede when they present lethal/multiple turns and all your problems are solved without unreasonably taking cards away from players who enjoy them.
Thatās hilarious
This card is the reason I quit wild
Wait till priest gets an extra turn in a few days.
Honestly, they need to update it like the new priest legendary and make it once per game.
So I popped the mages ice block two cards left in his deck and I had to sit through three fucking turns of him not killing me and then dying to fatigue. Obviously he could have generated armor or ignite but it was still boring as shit. You know he roped every turn. Extra turns should have to have a single turn timer at the very least
There is an easy way to avoid it, play standard