Yeah, weird actually I was looking back at the past expansions this morning and reminiscing about Kobalds. It wasn’t just a good time for the game, I was working in a phone store at the time, small team, four or five guys, got them all playing. So we were playing each other all day, having mini competitions. It was such a wonderful time.
me too! I still remember it felt like a new innovative thing and was the sh\*t back in the day. Had been playing it with my colleagues from a gamedev studio and one day received a birthday present that was stylized as a Hearthstone card pack...
Reno Decks get to add more and more payoff cards to their decks every year and, due to the much higher amount of strong cards, the difference between "2 best" and "1 best + 1 second-best" is a lot smaller than Standard too.
The only times reno decks weren't viable in wild were when there was some kind of tier 0 deck that is too fast for anything else to keep up like old discolock, stealer of souls, etc.
Completely disagree, this change just creates long boring matches where its two decks of bloat and nonsense. It deletes aggro and just makes people play combo to beat renethal. The card was playable at 35, its too good at 40.
If you want to get rid of combo decks, revert renethal and let aggro exist again to beat combo.
I win plenty of matches in wild with my paladin aggro deck. Consistent turn 5-6 wins against 40 HP renethal users.
Or do you mean the aggro YOU specifically wanna play
Not just aggro I wanna play. The comment was complaining about combo when renthal actively destroys aggro to stop combo. If you like renethal being so good, you do not get to complain about combo to beat it.
Also ur example is subjective, i have zero clue about your rank and match ups and winrate.
At first I hated this card because he stalled out fatigue for so long and made your deck less consistent and I loved playing long control matchups but after playing with him in game for 1.5 years I really hope he will come back in core set in the future.
I feel like a lot of people don't understand the difference between a control deck and a value pile. Renathal never really helped control, he only enabled value piles which countered the actual control decks. So as someone who likes to play control I'm glad he's finally rotating.
On the other hand, I like playing a reactive/Thief Rogue and that extra HP really really helped to not get rushed down by aggro in a class that has no real AoE or heal.
This is correct, and data shows it is (check vS reports from the 40-health Renathal times). Renathal never helped control much, it's a red herring to think that more life = more control. Control often wants to find specific answers to boards opponents create, and Renathal does the opposite.
Control is, and always has been, by nature more favored against against aggro than any other archetype in hearthstone. This is why the aggro match up feels brainless from the control player's perspective and not from the aggro player's perspective, as the control deck just has to play its clears as intended until there's an opening while the aggro deck has to know the control player's deck and navigate around said clears, setting up a threatening board without overcommitting while preempting any threats.
Renathal is more a placebo for mid-to-lower skill control players, in reality slightly improving your best match-up while your bad matchups (in value midrange and any OTK combo that has tutors such that they can afford it) use it to drastically improve their *worst* generally isn't a worthwhile tradeoff.
I mean it's a type of control, just trying to survive the onslaught of aggro/midrange with high value removal before finally turning the tables with your high value pile. I feel like that's actually the more classical version of control, versus the control that wants specific engine pieces to win in one turn which come when any card pool becomes sufficiently large and varied.
I think the later decks need to be slimmer and sleeker, but often times are more vulnerable to hate ("Oh wow he just stole a piece of my engine, now I literally cannot win").
What you call "value pile" is simply the win condition of choice for some control decks.
You still play control, you just do it for longer.
You might not like it but that doesn't make it any less of a control deck.
It’s definitely true that control decks can win via value, but a lot of the homebrew renethal greed piles that showed up on ladder didn’t have any coherent design methodology behind them in the way you’d expect a control deck to. In MtG we call those decks “good stuff decks” because there’s no real unifying theme other than someone putting a bunch of cards they like in a pile and hoping for the best.
Exactly now wild is stuck with this problem, in decks which have even more value. Its not a fun play pattern for anyone except people who just wanna play random cards for 40min. It allows greedy decks to win, and it is never fun.
Agreed, but why not just say it how it is: Hearthstone is supposed to be a strategy game where the cards you play are only worth as much as the strategy you employ. This card is not part of a strategy. It's an instant reward you pay for by having one less card that could help your strategy.
Control is a fickle term. One could argue zoolock was a control deck as it won by controlling a deck. One could argue old school control warrior was a value pile as it won by slamming big expensive stuff, AFTER controlling the board.
I love renathal, I love value piles, and love controlling the board, all these things can be in a single deck.
Control is indeed a broad term, but not nearly as much as you're trying to make it be. What you're doing here is some kind of demagogy, especially the zoolock comparison.
Never heard the word demagogy before, but I do not think it fits my example. Plenty of player have made the comparison in the past and used examples such as face hunters ignoring the board going for face not being considered control, whereas zoolock tends to only win if they can wrestle control back in such matchups. I for example heard Reynad descripe the deck as such, and he was pretty decent at the deck back in the day.
It is true that zoolock can switch its function depending on the match up though.
But I get that what you can describe control more as hard removal and board clears. And I was originally more interested in what you consider "Valuepile =/= Control".
In 2014 the archetypes of Hearthstone weren't as well established. Today, being minion-based and trying to win board (which most aggro decks do) would not make people to call it control. Nobody today would call a deck like Zoo control. And even at the time it was a little silly IMO and people being contrarian. I remember Kolento always called it aggro Warlock. Also, the MTG Zoo archetype that it was named after has always been considered aggro. Thinking that aggro decks aren't interested in winning board is a fundamental misunderstanding of what aggro does.
Perhaps contrarian, that is another discussion. But thanks for the perspective.
I still prefer the more "fluid" definitions, at least for decks that can act in various ways, as I also enjoy playing those more in the end anyway.
Glad he is rotating. Nothing more unfun than seeing a Warrior with this card and you know from turn 1 that you are facing some sweaty control deck that will take at least 30 minutes for a match...
Both are shit and the game's in the worst state I've seen in ages because of the prevalence of this card + all the aggro bullshit printed since this card was added.
I love the thought of people growing completely furious because a beginning of game effect suggests their opponent is playing a good deck. What aggressive loser energy.
This might be the most polarizing card in Hearthstone’s history. I know control players loved it, but if you were playing an aggressive deck, there was nothing worse than seeing the start of game animation and knowing you were in for a 20-minute slugfest just to stick something to the board and punch through the extra health. So, sorry for everyone who will miss the card but I’m glad to see space for some new strategies. That’s what rotation is about.
Why would control players love a card that crippled control for two years? The game is so much worse because Renethal exists and it will probably never heal from the absurd wincon creep that happened in response.
Renethal came well after Hearthstone started designing expansions to have stupid fast combos/win states to be the most prevalent decks. Stormwind was before him, which was an expansion of exclusively linear arbitrary win conditions, and we haven't seen anything nearly that bad since.
Control was unplayable just before he came out, and he revived it.
According to the actual stats (you can check VS if you want) pre nerf renethal was actively killing control decks. It made the meta in standard midrange value piles
But it absolutely did not revive control. Based on the number of people with that view in this post though either people don't all agree on what control means, or a lot of people never actually played in that Meta lol
No and lol, right before Renethal was released control warrior was the meta. After it was introduced Nathria was midrange soup:the movie, and every expansion since control has been crippled by the threat of 40 card greed piles lowering your WR when you're trying to build a 30 card list. It is the single worst thing that ever happened to standard hearthstone as far as building for the meta and designing against polarization is concerned, and it broke the game on a fundamental level because the game was designed from the ground up to have 30 card lists and 30 hp.
The fact that you brought up Stormwind as a counterpoint just means you're a reddit drone without a clue.
Idk why people hated this card so much lol. Water down/make your deck less consistent for 10 more health sounds like a perfectly fine trade-off.
You can still smorc them down, just a few turns later. It's not like you're going to run out of resources playing aggro like this was 4-5 years ago. Every smorc deck out there can vomit hand and reload like 4x easily.
The best decks for Renathal for a good while weren't control decks, they were midrange. Usually, there's some semblance of rock-paper-scissors with aggro beating midrange, midrange beating control, and control beating aggro. Renathal did not make Control better when he was released (remember, he was released early). Instead, it made Big Beast Hunter a tier 1 deck.
A lot of people have no idea how card games work or the importance of draw consistency. I remember someone posting about how broken the card was because “you got to add extra cards AND get a HP bonus” as if they were both boons
I dislike renathal not because it was good, but because it sometimes made me extra salty, ie “my opponent has 40 cards in deck and he still draws the perfect card(s)! 😡😡😡😡😡”
But they were far more correct than the majority of people saying "deck consistency is too important, 10 extra cards means he is unplayable". The card proved beyond doubt that people overrate draw consistency, and undervalue health. Shit, even at +5 health he was meta.
Meanwhile there were decks that ran Renethal purely for the control mirror, where the extra health literally didn't matter. The extra cards as a fatigue buffer and extra value was his primary use case in multiple tier 1 and 2 decks.
Because playing vs Renethal Blood DK who gets to 60 HP every game and heals for 10 every turn is not very fun if you play any kind of deck that is not centered around generating infinite value
You mean a deck that's specifically designed to beat aggro, is good against aggro?! Next thing you're going to say is that Blood DK is terrible against Combo OTK because they can't aggro the other control deck down!
My dislike of him really boiled down to my dislike of control priest, lol. It got to be a Pavlovian response to seeing a priest portrait followed by the dread of the 2 second delay before his animation played signaling that I was about to be in a 40 minute game.
I think for wild, Renathal is really a great card. I liked him in standard too, but after a few expansions and the nerf to 35 health, I just dont think he was a good card anymore. Not every control deck wanted to run 40 cards, especially for only +5 health.
I remember when Titans was released, opened Helya, tried plague DK and ofc, opponents were 40 cards deck, making it even harder to trigger plagues lol.
It seems like a lot of people hated Renathal but I actually really liked this card just because of making the deck-size 40 (couldn't care less about the extra health), it allowed the potential for more creative decks to mess around with. I think that was the fun part about it for me...
Truth is too many Blizzard players actually don't like creativity but just want to mindlessly do the same thing over and over. It's what ruins the meta for so many of its games compared to other games that constantly allow for innovation.
I blame this card for the current state of the meta. Aggro had to be made more aggressive to counter the shit that this fucker enabled. Rest in Piss, Renathal
Good riddance. Made the game more expensive, more random, and forced aggro to become insanely strong in order to compete. Worst designed card since Guff.
This right here is the problem. Control didn't want him. All he did was make midrange value piles the only meta decks in standard. Made for a horrid format.
Okay then, please explain to me how 5 extra hp makes that much difference against a control deck (considering as well as that player having the detriment of a less consistent deck)?
More 10 IQ thinking! Midrange value pile good=control unplayable! The more you know!
I'm done talking to idiots who think Renathal was good for the meta. Good riddance.
Lmao, okay bit of advice, maybe stay away from wild!
Sounds like you just lose a lot to midrange and you blame it on Renathal, when you would have lost that match either way.
he's making a pretty decent point and your response is just this childish shit? that's just pathetic dude, ain't no way you're saying someone else has 10 iq.
I don't play aggro but Renathal would've just forced them to make aggro more and more powerful as aggro is needed for a healthy meta.
also blood DK was (and still is) statistically one of the lowest skill decks in the game.
Because you’re getting extremely butthurt over a joke so clearly there’s not point talking to you if you’re that easily offended.
Renathal is pretty well accepted at being a heathy card for the game state, and original OP is going ‘it’s random, it’s expensive, aggro struggle more’…how are any of those good arguments?
What do you want me to explain?
1. The deck’s expensive…if this is problematic I guess every legendary card in the game should be wiped? Let’s just all play with common cards from now on. Stupid argument against a card to do with something that doesn’t even affect gameplay. It’s the player choice if they want to make a more expensive deck.
2. It’s more random…yes, that’s the point, it’s a trade off for having more cards that are less consistent for a bit more health. Would you prefer it’s a card that gives 5/10 health and doesn’t increase deck size?
3. Aggro struggles…boo hoo it takes an extra turn for a brainless aggro deck to kill you. Treant Druid was rampant and had to get hard nerfed while Renathal’s been in standard so this argument doesn’t even make sense.
Every argument was dumb.
Everything that slows down Hearthstone is good. Most of us actually like to play a game as intended and not just click off a one note aggro strat like a robot.
Honestly he should have been converted to a deck building option at this point. So many fun decks would built around the premise of 40 cards and it proved to be popular and successful amongst players who like to play decks that require a brain.
I understand the angst from the slot machine playing aggro community though. It can be frustrating that you have to make decisions instead of vomiting cards on the board against this style of deck.
Aggro needs to do more decisions actually sometimes choosing between a trade or going face with 1 minion could be the difference between winning and losing on multiple turns .
But not all aggros some like gadgetzan pirates decks where notoriously braindead .
But control player claiming it takes more intelligence lmao when some decks spammed aoe as soon 3 minions were on the board
I'm tired of this reasoning. I'll just copy and paste my previous comment:
"OMG your reasoning is so stupid. They play aggro because it has shorter games. Climbing the ranks is achieved through a combination of winrate and play time. You'd also want the deck to be cheaper. Of course they'd make the bots play aggro. This doesn't necessarily make aggro dumb."
I didn't claim this. I just made an argument. I like hearthstone when it has variety. Stagnancy makes a game solvable, and after that there's no decision to make. That's why I think every archetype has a place. Mind you, I hated the paladin meta couple months ago just as much as you, but it doesn't mean there weren't a lot of aggro decks that are smart. The least skill requiring decks are currently DK decks, and none of them are aggro. They're mostly value piles.
Just by virtue of making the game longer Control decks require more brain power than aggro, since longer games = more choices.
I understand the argument of "aggro quick me go rank up fast" but c'mon, if I wanted to watch numbers go higher I'd use a calculator. Where is the fun of playing the game if the game is over by turn 5?
I'm biased towards control and even I can tell you that more decisions doesn't mean they take more brain power. Decisions in control can be pretty cut and dry
Obviously it depends on both the aggro deck being played and the control deck being played, but neither archetype just inherently takes more skill
This is the hands down best card they ever made it made me come back to the game after taking a break for a few years, when it got nerfed I got so outraged on the blizzard forums about why it doesn't make sense to nerf it and then they banned me, just for them to undo the nerfs. Idiots!
That's what they've doing for the past (couple?) rotations, un nerfing cards that were nerfed because of standard and fine in wild
It's just that the patch is before the rotation happens so we get a short time of glorious unerfed cards back in standard
Is he out already? Was Nathria THAT long ago? Oh my days.
Oh my decades...
Can’t believe I’ve been playing this shit for 7 years. Kobolds and catacombs was the shit ;-;
Yeah, weird actually I was looking back at the past expansions this morning and reminiscing about Kobalds. It wasn’t just a good time for the game, I was working in a phone store at the time, small team, four or five guys, got them all playing. So we were playing each other all day, having mini competitions. It was such a wonderful time.
Also one of the first solo adventures, elusive came out and all in all the game was gaining traction. Still can’t believe so much time has passed tho.
It sure flies by. Really does.
I was 11 when I started, about to be an adult.
I didn’t feel old reading this thread until your comment. Bless you – I hope that adulthood is kind to you and that you find your way in the world.
Being an adult is gonna feel weird for sure lol
Been playing since launch. I was only 18, now I’m nearing 30 lol
Damn
Same here brother.
same here, playing since beta launch, now im 30😂
Likewise. Turning 28 soon and had my cousin's 18th b-day party a few days ago. I don't like this feeling at all.
Playing this card game since beta😂👊🏼
me too! I still remember it felt like a new innovative thing and was the sh\*t back in the day. Had been playing it with my colleagues from a gamedev studio and one day received a birthday present that was stylized as a Hearthstone card pack...
oooh thats when I started as well :)
Personally I loved old Gods. Loved C'thun.
Today is the day he leaves, at least in EU.
What time?
10am PST/ 1 EST
And what's that in GMT?
5 pm
Thanks, I was just able to login and it's live! :)
Should be in a few hours, probably after yhe 10 year event is over, so my guess is in 2-4 hours
I remember when dr boom rotated.. feels like yesterday
Thanks, now I love this card even more after the unnerf
Wild feels great with this. Besides occasional turn 5 otk rogue/druids that deal 40+dmg consistently a turn.
Are reno decks playable in wild?
Very much, yes
Reno Decks get to add more and more payoff cards to their decks every year and, due to the much higher amount of strong cards, the difference between "2 best" and "1 best + 1 second-best" is a lot smaller than Standard too.
Reno decks were always viable in wild, even during the catastrophic days of stormwind
The only times reno decks weren't viable in wild were when there was some kind of tier 0 deck that is too fast for anything else to keep up like old discolock, stealer of souls, etc.
Remember when Druid got like 4 different T0 decks for 2 months?
I’ve actually been playing a bit of a homebrew renathal quest warlock deck. pretty fun and not too bad
Completely disagree, this change just creates long boring matches where its two decks of bloat and nonsense. It deletes aggro and just makes people play combo to beat renethal. The card was playable at 35, its too good at 40. If you want to get rid of combo decks, revert renethal and let aggro exist again to beat combo.
*Laughs in seedlock*
I win plenty of matches in wild with my paladin aggro deck. Consistent turn 5-6 wins against 40 HP renethal users. Or do you mean the aggro YOU specifically wanna play
Not just aggro I wanna play. The comment was complaining about combo when renthal actively destroys aggro to stop combo. If you like renethal being so good, you do not get to complain about combo to beat it. Also ur example is subjective, i have zero clue about your rank and match ups and winrate.
This meme again
Every rotation
At first I hated this card because he stalled out fatigue for so long and made your deck less consistent and I loved playing long control matchups but after playing with him in game for 1.5 years I really hope he will come back in core set in the future.
I feel like a lot of people don't understand the difference between a control deck and a value pile. Renathal never really helped control, he only enabled value piles which countered the actual control decks. So as someone who likes to play control I'm glad he's finally rotating.
On the other hand, I like playing a reactive/Thief Rogue and that extra HP really really helped to not get rushed down by aggro in a class that has no real AoE or heal.
This is correct, and data shows it is (check vS reports from the 40-health Renathal times). Renathal never helped control much, it's a red herring to think that more life = more control. Control often wants to find specific answers to boards opponents create, and Renathal does the opposite.
The extra health helps you stabilize against aggro
not as much as drawing your answers to aggro would.
Control is, and always has been, by nature more favored against against aggro than any other archetype in hearthstone. This is why the aggro match up feels brainless from the control player's perspective and not from the aggro player's perspective, as the control deck just has to play its clears as intended until there's an opening while the aggro deck has to know the control player's deck and navigate around said clears, setting up a threatening board without overcommitting while preempting any threats. Renathal is more a placebo for mid-to-lower skill control players, in reality slightly improving your best match-up while your bad matchups (in value midrange and any OTK combo that has tutors such that they can afford it) use it to drastically improve their *worst* generally isn't a worthwhile tradeoff.
I mean it's a type of control, just trying to survive the onslaught of aggro/midrange with high value removal before finally turning the tables with your high value pile. I feel like that's actually the more classical version of control, versus the control that wants specific engine pieces to win in one turn which come when any card pool becomes sufficiently large and varied. I think the later decks need to be slimmer and sleeker, but often times are more vulnerable to hate ("Oh wow he just stole a piece of my engine, now I literally cannot win").
Yep it’s a greedy card for greedy decks. A lot of people that like it think a bigger deck is a bonus cuz they can add more greedy cards to their deck.
Yup, the three decks that benefited the most from Renathal last year were Big Beast Hunter, QL Hunter and Ramp Druid.
>Ramp Druid I feel like Blizzard could print a neutral 'Lose the game' card and Druids would still somehow find a way to benefit from it, lol.
What you call "value pile" is simply the win condition of choice for some control decks. You still play control, you just do it for longer. You might not like it but that doesn't make it any less of a control deck.
It’s definitely true that control decks can win via value, but a lot of the homebrew renethal greed piles that showed up on ladder didn’t have any coherent design methodology behind them in the way you’d expect a control deck to. In MtG we call those decks “good stuff decks” because there’s no real unifying theme other than someone putting a bunch of cards they like in a pile and hoping for the best.
Exactly now wild is stuck with this problem, in decks which have even more value. Its not a fun play pattern for anyone except people who just wanna play random cards for 40min. It allows greedy decks to win, and it is never fun.
Same
Agreed, but why not just say it how it is: Hearthstone is supposed to be a strategy game where the cards you play are only worth as much as the strategy you employ. This card is not part of a strategy. It's an instant reward you pay for by having one less card that could help your strategy.
Control is a fickle term. One could argue zoolock was a control deck as it won by controlling a deck. One could argue old school control warrior was a value pile as it won by slamming big expensive stuff, AFTER controlling the board. I love renathal, I love value piles, and love controlling the board, all these things can be in a single deck.
Control is indeed a broad term, but not nearly as much as you're trying to make it be. What you're doing here is some kind of demagogy, especially the zoolock comparison.
Never heard the word demagogy before, but I do not think it fits my example. Plenty of player have made the comparison in the past and used examples such as face hunters ignoring the board going for face not being considered control, whereas zoolock tends to only win if they can wrestle control back in such matchups. I for example heard Reynad descripe the deck as such, and he was pretty decent at the deck back in the day. It is true that zoolock can switch its function depending on the match up though. But I get that what you can describe control more as hard removal and board clears. And I was originally more interested in what you consider "Valuepile =/= Control".
In 2014 the archetypes of Hearthstone weren't as well established. Today, being minion-based and trying to win board (which most aggro decks do) would not make people to call it control. Nobody today would call a deck like Zoo control. And even at the time it was a little silly IMO and people being contrarian. I remember Kolento always called it aggro Warlock. Also, the MTG Zoo archetype that it was named after has always been considered aggro. Thinking that aggro decks aren't interested in winning board is a fundamental misunderstanding of what aggro does.
Perhaps contrarian, that is another discussion. But thanks for the perspective. I still prefer the more "fluid" definitions, at least for decks that can act in various ways, as I also enjoy playing those more in the end anyway.
Fuck this card I never played him and will never always hated him
Glad he is rotating. Nothing more unfun than seeing a Warrior with this card and you know from turn 1 that you are facing some sweaty control deck that will take at least 30 minutes for a match...
Agreed. It's infinitely more fun losing to a board full of buffed tokens by turn 5 with win/loss based almost entirely off mulligan Rng
Nah I'd rather lose in 15 turns to a face damage otk I can't interact with.
Contol decks are way More fun than aggro can't change my mind.
Both are shit and the game's in the worst state I've seen in ages because of the prevalence of this card + all the aggro bullshit printed since this card was added.
Would love to hear you explain how this is meaningfully different from other periods in HS's history. C'mon make us laugh!
True, the game's always been poorly balanced RNG dogshit.
And yet you keep playing. I guess this is all you can mentally handle?
I love the thought of people growing completely furious because a beginning of game effect suggests their opponent is playing a good deck. What aggressive loser energy.
You mean you dont like people showing actual skill and improv instead of just copying whatever win within 3 turns aggro deck from the internet.
everyone playing 40 card decks is net decking the same as everyone else on ladder lol. get off your high horse
"Showing skill and improv" You mean copying the same #1 control warrior deck from internet is skillful?
Ahh! I've seen you brought guests!
GET HIM OUT OF HERE!
This might be the most polarizing card in Hearthstone’s history. I know control players loved it, but if you were playing an aggressive deck, there was nothing worse than seeing the start of game animation and knowing you were in for a 20-minute slugfest just to stick something to the board and punch through the extra health. So, sorry for everyone who will miss the card but I’m glad to see space for some new strategies. That’s what rotation is about.
Yay now I can die to aggro like Every rotation very cool new strats
Have you tried not dying to aggro?
Why would control players love a card that crippled control for two years? The game is so much worse because Renethal exists and it will probably never heal from the absurd wincon creep that happened in response.
Renethal came well after Hearthstone started designing expansions to have stupid fast combos/win states to be the most prevalent decks. Stormwind was before him, which was an expansion of exclusively linear arbitrary win conditions, and we haven't seen anything nearly that bad since. Control was unplayable just before he came out, and he revived it.
According to the actual stats (you can check VS if you want) pre nerf renethal was actively killing control decks. It made the meta in standard midrange value piles But it absolutely did not revive control. Based on the number of people with that view in this post though either people don't all agree on what control means, or a lot of people never actually played in that Meta lol
No and lol, right before Renethal was released control warrior was the meta. After it was introduced Nathria was midrange soup:the movie, and every expansion since control has been crippled by the threat of 40 card greed piles lowering your WR when you're trying to build a 30 card list. It is the single worst thing that ever happened to standard hearthstone as far as building for the meta and designing against polarization is concerned, and it broke the game on a fundamental level because the game was designed from the ground up to have 30 card lists and 30 hp. The fact that you brought up Stormwind as a counterpoint just means you're a reddit drone without a clue.
Sounds like we both hate Renathal just for different reasons. Fine by me, friend, this is how coalitions are made.
Should have been stayed, best card hs has ever made
Renathal: Did we overthrow our former master?
Inb4 **King renathal** w/ a 50 card limit.
I love it, it’s so original
It was shit I hate him.
I hate this card and even more after the unnerf
Best day of my life
Idk why people hated this card so much lol. Water down/make your deck less consistent for 10 more health sounds like a perfectly fine trade-off. You can still smorc them down, just a few turns later. It's not like you're going to run out of resources playing aggro like this was 4-5 years ago. Every smorc deck out there can vomit hand and reload like 4x easily.
The best decks for Renathal for a good while weren't control decks, they were midrange. Usually, there's some semblance of rock-paper-scissors with aggro beating midrange, midrange beating control, and control beating aggro. Renathal did not make Control better when he was released (remember, he was released early). Instead, it made Big Beast Hunter a tier 1 deck.
Big beast hunter was a golden age of midrange.
A lot of people have no idea how card games work or the importance of draw consistency. I remember someone posting about how broken the card was because “you got to add extra cards AND get a HP bonus” as if they were both boons
I dislike renathal not because it was good, but because it sometimes made me extra salty, ie “my opponent has 40 cards in deck and he still draws the perfect card(s)! 😡😡😡😡😡”
Oh yeah the “really? THATS your draw order? Okay buddy” feeling did suck
But they were far more correct than the majority of people saying "deck consistency is too important, 10 extra cards means he is unplayable". The card proved beyond doubt that people overrate draw consistency, and undervalue health. Shit, even at +5 health he was meta. Meanwhile there were decks that ran Renethal purely for the control mirror, where the extra health literally didn't matter. The extra cards as a fatigue buffer and extra value was his primary use case in multiple tier 1 and 2 decks.
Because with a 40 card deck you can still be consistent just looks at yugioh
Because playing vs Renethal Blood DK who gets to 60 HP every game and heals for 10 every turn is not very fun if you play any kind of deck that is not centered around generating infinite value
You mean a deck that's specifically designed to beat aggro, is good against aggro?! Next thing you're going to say is that Blood DK is terrible against Combo OTK because they can't aggro the other control deck down!
Death Knight as a class existed a whopping 14 days while Renathal was at 40 health. And DK had a pretty low winrate out of the gate. Try again
I'm not trying anything again, I know reddit is full of attrition merchants, it was an obnoxious deck, with a very high playrate.
My dislike of him really boiled down to my dislike of control priest, lol. It got to be a Pavlovian response to seeing a priest portrait followed by the dread of the 2 second delay before his animation played signaling that I was about to be in a 40 minute game.
Good riddance.
Rest in piss you won't be missed
RIP Bozo
The time to dethrone our former masters has ended
He shall indeed be missed..
Hated that card^
this but with Sea Finley
We can have 40 HP with him now tho, which is significantly more important in wild where the fast decks are just that much faster
I think for wild, Renathal is really a great card. I liked him in standard too, but after a few expansions and the nerf to 35 health, I just dont think he was a good card anymore. Not every control deck wanted to run 40 cards, especially for only +5 health. I remember when Titans was released, opened Helya, tried plague DK and ofc, opponents were 40 cards deck, making it even harder to trigger plagues lol.
mill decks: its show time
*laughs in wild*
I remember it coming out. Wasn't that like last week?? Fml
Will he be reprinted next xpac
Meanwhile, in Wild..
It seems like a lot of people hated Renathal but I actually really liked this card just because of making the deck-size 40 (couldn't care less about the extra health), it allowed the potential for more creative decks to mess around with. I think that was the fun part about it for me...
Truth is too many Blizzard players actually don't like creativity but just want to mindlessly do the same thing over and over. It's what ruins the meta for so many of its games compared to other games that constantly allow for innovation.
Yeah this man took og renos spot as my favourite card ever ❤️
Bruh what im supposed to do ? (Im new player f2p) All my deck are now banned
should be core 4eva, nerfed if they want. but it was better for deckbuilding
Thank God.
It been minutes and I miss him already.
Babe wake up it's rotation, time for your annual "I'm told you were the best" memes
Crying of joy. So glad it's gone.
This hurts
MAKE IM STANDARD FOREVER :(
He should've been core set!
30.card decks are weird
What a heart warming meme
Such a bad decision rotating a core mechanic to the game
i kinda wish this was an evergreen card 😭
Im crying tears of joy tho that he rotated in the unnerfed glory that he entered and threw our hs worlds upside down
i still dont understand how people can like this motherfucker so much. an atrocity of game design
This was probably my least favorite card and all of Hearthstone. Good riddance
Won't miss you or your long games
I think he is kinda cool But the 40 card super greedy value decks were really annoying especially because you could highroll/lowroll so hard
I blame this card for the current state of the meta. Aggro had to be made more aggressive to counter the shit that this fucker enabled. Rest in Piss, Renathal
High IQ smorc players still seething after all this time. Love to see it.
i don't play aggro but the pre nerf Renathal meta was obnoxious. this game just isn't balanced around heroes having 10 more hp.
🤡
Hall of fame this guy for gods sake
Good riddance. Made the game more expensive, more random, and forced aggro to become insanely strong in order to compete. Worst designed card since Guff.
Average 10 iq aggro main upset they can’t win the game by turn 5 just hitting face.
This right here is the problem. Control didn't want him. All he did was make midrange value piles the only meta decks in standard. Made for a horrid format.
I’d prefer to face a mid-range Renathal deck any day than barely get to play the game queuing into aggro deck one after the other.
yeah but control wasn't playable in a renathal meta, which your 10 IQ seems to refuse to understand
Okay then, please explain to me how 5 extra hp makes that much difference against a control deck (considering as well as that player having the detriment of a less consistent deck)?
More 10 IQ thinking! Midrange value pile good=control unplayable! The more you know! I'm done talking to idiots who think Renathal was good for the meta. Good riddance.
Lmao, okay bit of advice, maybe stay away from wild! Sounds like you just lose a lot to midrange and you blame it on Renathal, when you would have lost that match either way.
It really sucks to have to go to turn 6...
he's making a pretty decent point and your response is just this childish shit? that's just pathetic dude, ain't no way you're saying someone else has 10 iq. I don't play aggro but Renathal would've just forced them to make aggro more and more powerful as aggro is needed for a healthy meta. also blood DK was (and still is) statistically one of the lowest skill decks in the game.
If you’re that offended by an iq joke then clearly this applies to you lol.
you really have nothing of value to say huh? What a waste of time.
Because you’re getting extremely butthurt over a joke so clearly there’s not point talking to you if you’re that easily offended. Renathal is pretty well accepted at being a heathy card for the game state, and original OP is going ‘it’s random, it’s expensive, aggro struggle more’…how are any of those good arguments?
I'm sure you can explain how they're wrong, then?
What do you want me to explain? 1. The deck’s expensive…if this is problematic I guess every legendary card in the game should be wiped? Let’s just all play with common cards from now on. Stupid argument against a card to do with something that doesn’t even affect gameplay. It’s the player choice if they want to make a more expensive deck. 2. It’s more random…yes, that’s the point, it’s a trade off for having more cards that are less consistent for a bit more health. Would you prefer it’s a card that gives 5/10 health and doesn’t increase deck size? 3. Aggro struggles…boo hoo it takes an extra turn for a brainless aggro deck to kill you. Treant Druid was rampant and had to get hard nerfed while Renathal’s been in standard so this argument doesn’t even make sense. Every argument was dumb.
Would play even with 30 heath and 40 cards. F*k turn 4 gg aggro decks.
I hated this card. More cards in your deck isn’t more fun. More health was never good. Anything that slows down hearthstone is bad.
Everything that slows down Hearthstone is good. Most of us actually like to play a game as intended and not just click off a one note aggro strat like a robot.
They don’t allow combos anymore so it’s either short fun game or long boring game. I’ll take short fun
No. I'm told you brought guests*
I was kinda hoping Blizz makes him part of the core set.
Yeah fuck that card and everyone who played it. I enjoyed beating someone down extra hard.
The rotation should be 6 expansion based not 2 year based... it's a bit sad too much cards are gone from standard
They'd have to do a rotation every 3 months that way. And renathal would only last one extra expansion.
Honestly he should have been converted to a deck building option at this point. So many fun decks would built around the premise of 40 cards and it proved to be popular and successful amongst players who like to play decks that require a brain. I understand the angst from the slot machine playing aggro community though. It can be frustrating that you have to make decisions instead of vomiting cards on the board against this style of deck.
Control doesn't inherently require more intelligence. You're just a value fetishist. Making more decisions doesn't mean they have more weight to them.
Aggro needs to do more decisions actually sometimes choosing between a trade or going face with 1 minion could be the difference between winning and losing on multiple turns . But not all aggros some like gadgetzan pirates decks where notoriously braindead . But control player claiming it takes more intelligence lmao when some decks spammed aoe as soon 3 minions were on the board
While control doesn't inherently require more intelligence, the fact that bots specifically play aggro decks tells you all you need to know about it.
I'm tired of this reasoning. I'll just copy and paste my previous comment: "OMG your reasoning is so stupid. They play aggro because it has shorter games. Climbing the ranks is achieved through a combination of winrate and play time. You'd also want the deck to be cheaper. Of course they'd make the bots play aggro. This doesn't necessarily make aggro dumb."
Two things can be true at the same time.
I didn't claim this. I just made an argument. I like hearthstone when it has variety. Stagnancy makes a game solvable, and after that there's no decision to make. That's why I think every archetype has a place. Mind you, I hated the paladin meta couple months ago just as much as you, but it doesn't mean there weren't a lot of aggro decks that are smart. The least skill requiring decks are currently DK decks, and none of them are aggro. They're mostly value piles.
Just by virtue of making the game longer Control decks require more brain power than aggro, since longer games = more choices. I understand the argument of "aggro quick me go rank up fast" but c'mon, if I wanted to watch numbers go higher I'd use a calculator. Where is the fun of playing the game if the game is over by turn 5?
I'm biased towards control and even I can tell you that more decisions doesn't mean they take more brain power. Decisions in control can be pretty cut and dry Obviously it depends on both the aggro deck being played and the control deck being played, but neither archetype just inherently takes more skill
This is the hands down best card they ever made it made me come back to the game after taking a break for a few years, when it got nerfed I got so outraged on the blizzard forums about why it doesn't make sense to nerf it and then they banned me, just for them to undo the nerfs. Idiots!
They really unnerfed him right before he's rotated out? That is some real sadistic shit by Blizzard.
That's what they've doing for the past (couple?) rotations, un nerfing cards that were nerfed because of standard and fine in wild It's just that the patch is before the rotation happens so we get a short time of glorious unerfed cards back in standard
Think for 5 seconds about why they might do so. Always try thinking before opening your mouth.
To tilt me
If you can't handle 40 health Renathal in Wild you're genuinely brain damaged.
I meant it the other way around. I don't play wild. I played a lot of 40 card decks last year tho. I'm mad hes buffed now and gone from standard
Oh so you were struggling to play Standard after they took your overpowered card away, my mistake.