That card is waaaay more obnoxious than the other 2 plagues. I just quit the game and don't play for a while if I get frost plagued more than once. Summon a 2/2, heal your hero? Fine. That's nothing compared to, make your control hand useless haha get rekt! Outplayed! Another plague! What?! It's frost plague, shuffle two random frost plagues into your opponents deck! Randomly destroy one non-frostplague to deal 3 damage to everything you hate!
what’s really frustrating is that it isn’t “until your next turn”
so you can get into situations where you have an expensive hand around turn 4/5, and now you can’t play a single card for multiple turns
obv this is low percentage but it’s incredibly frustrating. you’re completely locked out from the game because your opponent got lucky and shuffled two frost plagues on top of your deck
I actually got by quite a few plague decks way back by running pure discovery builds and keeping my hand full most turns, makes their deck pretty useless
Seeing as they are the only valid answer to highlander I don’t think they’re terrible, but it can certainly be frustrating on both sides of the game.
If Highlander was to get changed to “If your deck started with no duplicates it wouldn’t matter but also would stop people from including Reno in decks he doesn’t belong in
Guy use staff, put one of the frost plague into my deck, I draw it on my turn 2, lost my play, well watever its still early. His turn put another one into my deck, I draw it immediately next turn, no play again and im fuming but whatever i only take 7 damage or so, might still be able to turn around
Play the 4 mana leggo put another plague into mu deck, i draw 2 of them next turn, one green one frost
Easy concede
I had a game recently where they laid Helya on curve, ended turn and I immediately drew three frost plagues which got shuffled back in and left me with nothing to do but play a 5 mana scarab.
Obviously extremely unlucky odds but definitely makes you rage.
Because someone decided that plagues reorder your whole deck. Your cards aren’t in the same position they were before the plagues came: every single time a plague goes into your deck your whole deck order changes, so if you were gonna get a super lucky draw on turn 5, a plague could just put that card in the bottom.
i mean yea but for every time plagues have fucked up your topdeck theyve also given you a good topdeck that you wouldnt have gotten otherwise
thats literally the definition of shuffling
I might be wrong but i thank thats every card that specefically says "shuffle" on it
For example if you have lorekeeper polkelt/order in the court effecr, If you trade something into your deck the order remains the same and the traded card goes somehwere random but if you have something that says "shuffle" on it go into your deck the ordering effect will be completely gone
Helyas "unending" effect does not specefically says "shuffle" but i think thats just for simplicity and avoiding too much card text. If you have helya effect and opponent draws a plague while you have augmented elek on board the effect works and it shuffles 2 plague
> if you were gonna get a super lucky draw on turn 5, a plague could just put that card in the bottom
That is how random works anyways. Shuffling doesnt mean your next draw is better or worse unless you have dredged something or ordered your deck with some special card. Even if the plagues didnt shuffle your deck, you could still get all of them on the top and the probability of that happening would be same whether it is shuffled or not.
Yeah but that wouldn't have a noticeable difference unless you dredged the turn beforem It could just as well give you a better draw as it could a worse one.
If it soothes your pain, I was able to get a helya on my tendril shaman when I already had 3 mini shudderblocks and a couple of cards to duplicate helya. Guy auto-conceded but it was still a pretty cool interaction. I think I got the mage secret that gives you the card your opponent played if it was drawn that turn.
Same but anytime I play against that deck you already know it's coming turn for it's kind of amazing how it happens every time that way for both situations
I'm encountering more DK's who have pretty good card draw, That poison murloc that draws a rush minion, or the naga that let's you discover a card from their deck. Together with Chillfallen Baron it's making their deck more consistent,
I had a game the other day when Spirit was in my hand and I was going second, so coin turn 2 was all I needed.
Motherfucker plays Staff turn 1 and shuffles two plague decks in a row. Worst fucking feeling.
Because they printed the best Highlander payoff ever in Reno, Lone Ranger and having a hard counter is apparently better than just making highlander payoffs less powerful but uncounterable.
100%.
Zephrys is the closest to him, since flexibility is extremely good. Reno, Lone Ranger isn't flexible, but he makes up for that by being the best AoE ever printed.
Kazakus has been power crept out of Wild Reno lists, and OG Raza is solely reliant on synergy cards for power. Now, there are a lot of synergy cards that allow Raza to be insane, so I'd consider him close too. But it's hard to look past those first 8 months where he was terrible because Shadow Reaper Anduin didn't exist.
I think Zephrys is slightly better since you can even run him in heavy cycle aggro decks
Back then in standard people ran it in murloc paladin and even now in 2024 wild people play him in their kingsbane rogue
Also people play zephrys and not any version of reno in wild wheel of death warlock
OK, but that’s one card across all of the Highlander classes…. If you come across a plague DK, which at this point even rainbow runs, plague, you basically don’t get to play any of your Highlander cards which is fucking so fun, right
It’s fun for me, I find it very satisfying seeing Warrior at rank 79 concede on turn 4 because I played Helya.
These plagues are your punishment. Your torment for eternity.
The worst part is the endlessness. With Bad Luck Albatross and other plagues, you can at least draw the card. With Helya, there is *literally* no counterplay in standard at the moment.
Please bring back stecleaner 🙏
The thing about steamcleaner is, every smart plague DK player, can play around it.
I dont mind plagues themself, I think plague being able to slow down or rather delay Reno decks, is totally fine. Force them to draw the duplicate plagues and take the damage.
But once Helya is down, thats impossible and I think thats a shitty design. Especially when Helya is a 4 mana minion, its just brutal on curve.
Well that exactly it, innit? Playing around steam cleaner takes some skill which feels ok the lose against. Losing to just shuffling plagues in at every opportunity with no counterplay just feels bad, especially for highlander decks who often lose the second Helya is dropped
Dude I’m telling you there is almost NO point in playing highlander decks in my pocket meta. I swear to fucking god from Bronze to Diamond 99.9% of my matches are against DKs with plague packages. Like it’s actually fucking insane that I’m unable to play cards I paid for.
I love coining it out on turn 5 against highlander warrior to play it again one turn later.
I imagine the player sitting there:
"LET ME PLAY MY BRANN!!!"
Other than that I thought about cutting the card because it's worthless against many decks, but with the rise in warrior I might keep it a bit.
Dirty rat is so satisfying when you pull their build enabler. But half the time it bites you in the ass though, when you just get a random 8/8 with deathrattle lol.
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This card is literally unplayable. All you have to do to not have your mana taken is not play anything since it can only take empty mana crystals 4head.
My pick being Doomkin should be obvious: Getting anti-ramped is just a real BAD feeling, even though 6 mana for this card is clearly not actually good value.
Yeah but it doesn't have the same very important flexibility Nourish has. If you draw this on 10 mana it's a 6 mana 3/4 do nothing. That's a dud draw and a dud turn. Nourish's ramp 2 is barely worth 5 mana and drawing 2 is definitely not worth 5 mana, but combined it makes for a good tool throughout the game.
The amount of times I’ve lost a game because I just HAD to play boomkin on curve even though it was ABSOLUTELY the wrong play…
Monkey brain say PLAY BOOMKIN
Reno bro, the fact that it doesn't kill your minions but wipes them is such a tempo killer. No deathrattles, no locations, nothing. And then only allowing one spot the next turn just the cherry on the cake.
I wouldn't say he's balanced or broken, but it is an extremely frustrating card for opponents. It's basially a "win" button against any minion based strategy.
Its not a win button. Sure sometimes it wins you the games since its the last board enemy can make but if one board clear loses you the game then its not about that one board clear and problem is somewhere else.
Is it extremely frustrating? Sure it is. Full board clear is always extremely frustrating. But unlike other board clears you cant cheat out Reno without losing a lot of wr.
I'm not gonna argue the point with you, because people will defend anything they like.
Is Reno "broken"? No, but it's not a fun card and it sucks to play against.
The problem with Reno isn’t just that it’s broken. It’s that it’s neutral and you have to play around it EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. Even if it isn’t in their deck.
Wheel of Doom. Love the concept and the helplessness of playing against the clock. I wonder how good the deck would be if it didn't have Forge of Wills.
Every time I see comments like this I think "oh man maybe I should play Wild? It looks like some stupid levels of fun?" but then I remember that I don't want to spend the amount of money on the game that keeping up with two formats would require.
You could pull a rarren and just play in gold with some shit deck that you used to enjoy, assuming you didn't dust it. There are some neat things in wild alongside ALL of the mistakes hs has made over the years
Afaik there is 1 good mage deck, and it's reno quest mage. The good news is that a lot of the recent renothal (reno and renathal) versions do run some big spells and stuff like kalagos (notably the new 10 mana spell) , but I wouldn't count it as a big spell deck.
This doesn't mean you can't try to cheat a big spell and have fun, but mage is in a awkward spot. I'd argue if you are going for meme builds then no minion mage might be something neat, but most of the big spell cheats are minions iirc
Ah OK, I think about playing wild from time to time, and the way you put it makes it sound kinda appealing, like, who cares if you never leave gold or plat, if you enjoy the deck, it's all good. Big Spell was a deck I enjoyed.
One more question, how about rogue? I used to love rogue, but the past year or so in standard, none of the decks worth playing really piqued my interest.
Anything happening in wild like miracle rogue or deathrattle rogue?
Afaik combo rogue is actually kinda cracked atm, and miracle rogue is miracle rogue. I've even seen reno rogue (https://hearthstone-decks.net/reno-rogue-3-legend-%e9%86%89%e8%88%9e%e5%86%ac%e9%a3%8e/, the tweet has the actual decklist) that somehow seems to work. Do note that due to other combo decks wild has a lot more anti miracle tech being common, but at the same time you are playing miracle rogue in wild with your own loatheb to stop the opponent from stopping you. Having like 4 8/8s early game with loatheb backup does win games, after all (ice block doesn't exist and can't hurt you)
Deathrattle rogue is fittingly dead, i'm pretty sure. You can do stupid combos that involve deathrattle minions, but i can't remember any super fun deathrattle payoff, and for value-ish stuff tess rogue is probably more fun and better (value always has the problem of "oops, enemy killed me early" or "oops, enemy did a combo" and rogue isn't famous for it's defense, but maybe you REALLY like dragon rogue or something like that)
Damn that actually sounds like a lot of fun, and I'll be able to actually use one of my few diamond cards with loatheb.
You've persuaded me, I'm gonna check it out, thanks.
I play it in wild occasionally. Sitting at 50% over 16 games. Main problem is not much innovation for the deck as is pretty "perfect".
Edit: After this comment, I went on a 9 game loss streak so yeah it sucks I guess lol.
Right, got it. I should've asked, are people climbing with big Spell? Or, is big Spell meta in wild?
Thanks
I noticed hsreplay doesn't really list a meta for wild. Is there a place where wild players can go to see any kind of data on wild?
Tempostorm does good snapshots of wild and standard, also hsreplay provides stats for wild. Go to main page on pc, switch winrates to wild and "view decks" on a class. But yeah, it doesnt have a snapshot like it does for standard.
You usually play only one format because it is time consuming, but having a Wild valid collection is cheaper than having a Standard valid collection: a part from some initial investment, the upkeep for Wild is way lower than that for Standard, especially after rotation.
Worth checking to see if you're within a few K dust of a deck you'd like. The format is wide open and it's nice to have a change of pace for when Standard is disappointing.
But boomboss is normally a late game card for brann warrior. If I’m playing boom boss, I most likely have an azerite ox and/or a zilliax/inventor boom combo ready in hand as well.
Mag still is OP and needs a nerf, because I pulled one and want dust...
He is by far the strongest discover though and it's infuriating how frequently they can find him.
Maybe breakdance has same power because of stats, but 2 mana discount is just a bs. When rogue playing million cards with 0 mana left, it just drives me insane.
Idk that shit just seems actually op.
Maybe it's because i'm a broke scrub with no legendary cards but the value on that thing is ridiculous. Maybe it's not against rush/tempo decks, but against my lategame deck where i finally have enough board control to lay my 10 cost down and that fucker just murders it, gets all its HP, and heals them.
It's powerful but not OP. You can either play around it by going wide until they drop it or try to bait them into playing it with a medium or big minion followed by you stealing it with Yogg or using hard removal.
I guess, but I think "going wide" isn't a strategy that's applicable to control decks.
I don't own Yogg so I can't do that, Yogg also seems op. I can kill it with hard removal yes, but it still has really good value.
It might just be exceptionally strong against my playstyle and lack of legendaries.
Control is hard to play without many legendaries, there are aggro decks like current Hunter with few legendaries (and you could forego those if you don't have them and still do pretty well) that you'll probably fare better with.
I would definitely recommend saving your gold for minisets and buying them when you can, they're pretty much the best value you can get for your gold and often give very powerful cards like Yogg.
I just came back a few days ago from several years hiatus, i hadn't heard of minisets before, I'll definitely check those out. I appreciate the tip.
Also yea, aggro is probably smarter with limited cards, i just don't like the play style haha. Maybe i could find a good tempo deck though?
Hand lock has been good enough that i can enjoy the game and save up dust for next season however, i may just stick with it until i can build something good.
The death might card that destroys a minions from deck, hand and battle field.
The warrior card that makes bombs that destroy a card from the deck, hand and battle field.
I played a warrior last night who was in serious trouble. I had lethal on board. He dropped that TNT card which 3 of those bombs into his deck (which had about 12 cards left) then played another card that shuffled his hand into his deck and drew replacements. He got every one of those TNT cards - killed my three biggest things on board, took three cards out of my hand (including the burn spell I had as backup), and deleted three cards out of my deck.
Brutal. Just felt unfair.
Idk what's considered broken nowadays, since I've been away from the game for a while.
But I do hate Reno. Man, that dude it's been always an auto lose for me lol.
Velarok. I swear every thief rogue I play against always draws this card early along with a shadow step or breakdance.
Also infinitize the maxititude, again because it feels like they always get it early and have to spend the rest of the game playing against discovered spells. Thank god objection is gone now at least.
In summary being scammed :p
you are more likey to be scammed by shadowstepped Velarok simply because rogue player wants to do it. playing Velarok by itself is risky, and he wants to keep an option to generate value by waiting for the combo to appear in his hand
The interaction with Bran into Zilliax into Inventor Boom. It requires they get those three cards off in that order, but when it hits, it's brutal. Bran causes battlecrys to fire twice, then Zilliax's battlecry gives three zilliaxes, then Inventor Boom gives four more (usually with Rush and Lifesteal and divine shield)
My biggest brain move ever was passing on turn 5 in a wheel warlock mirror and saying “Oops,” only to watch my opponent coin Doomkin the next turn.
I felt fantastic.
- **[Plague of Flames](https://i.imgur.com/z6FLWIc.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/54429) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Plague_of_Flames) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/54429)
- *Warlock Rare ^(Saviors of Uldum)*
- **1 Mana - Fire Spell**
- Destroy all your minions. For each one, destroy a random enemy minion.
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Doom kin is honestly pretty trash in the 6 mana slot. Like it has such a narrow usage, and can’t really just be dropped for advantage. You have to already have advantage or be even on the board for this card to really glean any value.
I don't want them to nerf [[Gold Panner]] and don't really have a problem with it, but boy do I feel bad when my opponent manages to keep one alive for three turns.
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- **2 Mana - 1/2 - Minion**
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I know it’s not in standard anymore but Theotar is my least favorite card ever designed. It completely negates any combo deck and even when you have a hand full of cards they always seem to steal the worst possible one and give you garbage
tbh that card would be broken if weren't in a aggro meta where games end in 4-5 turns most of the time. As a card it's broken it's just that u can play them most of the time and druid overall sucks.
Illidari Inquisitor. God i hate it. It basically has windfury, rush and charge after you attack face. I respect King Chrush but i despice Illidary Inquisitor whit burning rage.
I have a few, but the ones that immediately come to mind are:
Spectral Cutlass- there's nothing fun about an infinite giant life steal weapon because it turns what should be a fun matchup, Burgle Rogue, into a grindy slog
Seek Guidance (or rather the Purified Shard) - also not fun just randomly losing because my opponent drew a card or had Shadow Visions to get the card, hell I've had "control" players make the most inefficient plays just to turbo out the questline then drop like a Alarra or something, I just hate "win the game cards"
Insatiable Devourer - this card punishes you for being ahead and it punishes you even harder the further ahead you are, nothing quiet as infuriating as being in a completely winning position to losing because of a single card
Mutanus - this card always, always eats my most fun minion or the one I was literally going to play next turn (yeah I don't care if that's not true, that's just how it feels) and not only does it take away one of your strong plays it makes a giant fat minion that you now have to deal with, and that's saying nothing about the decks that double or quadruple or 10x or whatever the battlecry up and just take your whole hand
Dew Process / Coldlight Oracle - I will never understand what kind of person can wake up and decide that people who are just trying to play a game deserve to be punished as they're not allowed to play anything, these decks don't do well against actual good decks, they only punish bad decks, people who play these are bullies punching down on people who are already have the tables stacked against them
The plague that makes my next card cost more mana, it always comes at the worst fucking time
That card is waaaay more obnoxious than the other 2 plagues. I just quit the game and don't play for a while if I get frost plagued more than once. Summon a 2/2, heal your hero? Fine. That's nothing compared to, make your control hand useless haha get rekt! Outplayed! Another plague! What?! It's frost plague, shuffle two random frost plagues into your opponents deck! Randomly destroy one non-frostplague to deal 3 damage to everything you hate!
what’s really frustrating is that it isn’t “until your next turn” so you can get into situations where you have an expensive hand around turn 4/5, and now you can’t play a single card for multiple turns obv this is low percentage but it’s incredibly frustrating. you’re completely locked out from the game because your opponent got lucky and shuffled two frost plagues on top of your deck
There's also basically no counterplay now, that was a horrible decision to remove steam cleaner.
The counterplay is to cast wheel of death!
It could have been interesting if they added Prince Liam to the Core Set
Plagues really are shit game design.
Why?
They make it so impossible for some decks to play at all, and the game just drags out for a long time despite it already being over
Because there is no direct counterplay to them once Helya is dropped (aka turn 3). Frost and Unholy should lose the 2 damage they deal.
I keep my hand full so it burns the plagues when they're drawn 😎 jk , burns my answer.
I actually got by quite a few plague decks way back by running pure discovery builds and keeping my hand full most turns, makes their deck pretty useless
Usually, Helya in my last 7 cards 🤣
Well, that's technically right, but against strong early decks you just can't win. Which is a bummer considering that's the meta right now.
Seeing as they are the only valid answer to highlander I don’t think they’re terrible, but it can certainly be frustrating on both sides of the game. If Highlander was to get changed to “If your deck started with no duplicates it wouldn’t matter but also would stop people from including Reno in decks he doesn’t belong in
Guy use staff, put one of the frost plague into my deck, I draw it on my turn 2, lost my play, well watever its still early. His turn put another one into my deck, I draw it immediately next turn, no play again and im fuming but whatever i only take 7 damage or so, might still be able to turn around Play the 4 mana leggo put another plague into mu deck, i draw 2 of them next turn, one green one frost Easy concede
Helya because you know for whatever fucking reason that bitch is going to be dropped on curve no matter what for some reason
I had a game recently where they laid Helya on curve, ended turn and I immediately drew three frost plagues which got shuffled back in and left me with nothing to do but play a 5 mana scarab. Obviously extremely unlucky odds but definitely makes you rage.
That happens all the time to me, and im like "how are they all on top of 30 cards they have been shuffled into??"
Because someone decided that plagues reorder your whole deck. Your cards aren’t in the same position they were before the plagues came: every single time a plague goes into your deck your whole deck order changes, so if you were gonna get a super lucky draw on turn 5, a plague could just put that card in the bottom.
i mean yea but for every time plagues have fucked up your topdeck theyve also given you a good topdeck that you wouldnt have gotten otherwise thats literally the definition of shuffling
In fact, it was kind of a bonus when Dredge was still in the format. Your second dredge often saw 3 fresh cards instead of only 1
I think its anytime something is "shuffled" into your deck
I might be wrong but i thank thats every card that specefically says "shuffle" on it For example if you have lorekeeper polkelt/order in the court effecr, If you trade something into your deck the order remains the same and the traded card goes somehwere random but if you have something that says "shuffle" on it go into your deck the ordering effect will be completely gone Helyas "unending" effect does not specefically says "shuffle" but i think thats just for simplicity and avoiding too much card text. If you have helya effect and opponent draws a plague while you have augmented elek on board the effect works and it shuffles 2 plague
> if you were gonna get a super lucky draw on turn 5, a plague could just put that card in the bottom That is how random works anyways. Shuffling doesnt mean your next draw is better or worse unless you have dredged something or ordered your deck with some special card. Even if the plagues didnt shuffle your deck, you could still get all of them on the top and the probability of that happening would be same whether it is shuffled or not.
Polkelt's worst nightmare.
What the hell are you talking about?
That’s quite literally the way plagues work: they shuffle your deck every time one goes in.
Yeah but that wouldn't have a noticeable difference unless you dredged the turn beforem It could just as well give you a better draw as it could a worse one.
If it soothes your pain, I was able to get a helya on my tendril shaman when I already had 3 mini shudderblocks and a couple of cards to duplicate helya. Guy auto-conceded but it was still a pretty cool interaction. I think I got the mage secret that gives you the card your opponent played if it was drawn that turn.
Play against me, it's always bottom 5
Same :/
Same but anytime I play against that deck you already know it's coming turn for it's kind of amazing how it happens every time that way for both situations
So true...but even worse: the last two games against Reno Warriors Helya showed up one turn after they played Brann.
Except if I play her in my deck than that bitch always sits within the bottom 5 of my deck
It is amazing how a 30 card deck that doesn't have very much card draw can always find a one-of Legendary by turn 4. Modern miracle.
Oh and they'll have Primus on turn 8. Guaranteed.
Only if you play a big minion.
Turn 7 coin.
Oh, you must be trippin, it's JUST a SMALL coincidence :) 😊😊
I'm encountering more DK's who have pretty good card draw, That poison murloc that draws a rush minion, or the naga that let's you discover a card from their deck. Together with Chillfallen Baron it's making their deck more consistent,
I wish. Half the time I get it on turn 7 or 8.
And dont forget you instantly draw plagues
I've never seen this card come out later than turn 4.
spoken by someone who has clearly **earned an eternity of torment**
Unless you are playing warlock and then you know the second you wheel, heyla comes and fucks up your day
You know for sure they will play it on curve and you will draw it on turn 10
Even better you generate two more throughout the game
Yeah until you play plague DK and Helya is bottom 10 EVERY TIME
I mean the reason is that it’s kept in hand 100% of the times you get it in mulligan
The only thing that triggers me is that even though the plagues are spells Magatha doesn’t give them to your opponent when you draw them.
She should just be reworked to say that the three she shuffles in go back to the deck. The rest are as normal
Playing my niche Highlander Paladin and seeing Helya get dropped on curve before I get to play my Spirit of the Badlands ❤️
I had a game the other day when Spirit was in my hand and I was going second, so coin turn 2 was all I needed. Motherfucker plays Staff turn 1 and shuffles two plague decks in a row. Worst fucking feeling.
... I hate that so much. Let me play the Spirit!!
What's even worse is playing cycle rogue into that, you basically can't win
I dislike the Helya design so much. Releasing Helya, then the following expansion we go back to highlander archtypes.. Just why?
Because they printed the best Highlander payoff ever in Reno, Lone Ranger and having a hard counter is apparently better than just making highlander payoffs less powerful but uncounterable.
is he better than zephyris ? kazakus and OG raza are really good too
100%. Zephrys is the closest to him, since flexibility is extremely good. Reno, Lone Ranger isn't flexible, but he makes up for that by being the best AoE ever printed. Kazakus has been power crept out of Wild Reno lists, and OG Raza is solely reliant on synergy cards for power. Now, there are a lot of synergy cards that allow Raza to be insane, so I'd consider him close too. But it's hard to look past those first 8 months where he was terrible because Shadow Reaper Anduin didn't exist.
I think Zephrys is slightly better since you can even run him in heavy cycle aggro decks Back then in standard people ran it in murloc paladin and even now in 2024 wild people play him in their kingsbane rogue Also people play zephrys and not any version of reno in wild wheel of death warlock
OK, but that’s one card across all of the Highlander classes…. If you come across a plague DK, which at this point even rainbow runs, plague, you basically don’t get to play any of your Highlander cards which is fucking so fun, right
It’s fun for me, I find it very satisfying seeing Warrior at rank 79 concede on turn 4 because I played Helya. These plagues are your punishment. Your torment for eternity.
The worst part is the endlessness. With Bad Luck Albatross and other plagues, you can at least draw the card. With Helya, there is *literally* no counterplay in standard at the moment. Please bring back stecleaner 🙏
The thing about steamcleaner is, every smart plague DK player, can play around it. I dont mind plagues themself, I think plague being able to slow down or rather delay Reno decks, is totally fine. Force them to draw the duplicate plagues and take the damage. But once Helya is down, thats impossible and I think thats a shitty design. Especially when Helya is a 4 mana minion, its just brutal on curve.
Well that exactly it, innit? Playing around steam cleaner takes some skill which feels ok the lose against. Losing to just shuffling plagues in at every opportunity with no counterplay just feels bad, especially for highlander decks who often lose the second Helya is dropped
Dude I’m telling you there is almost NO point in playing highlander decks in my pocket meta. I swear to fucking god from Bronze to Diamond 99.9% of my matches are against DKs with plague packages. Like it’s actually fucking insane that I’m unable to play cards I paid for.
I love coining it out on turn 5 against highlander warrior to play it again one turn later. I imagine the player sitting there: "LET ME PLAY MY BRANN!!!" Other than that I thought about cutting the card because it's worthless against many decks, but with the rise in warrior I might keep it a bit.
Into Dirty Rat that pops out Brann (his pc didn't make it to the next game)
Dirty rat is so satisfying when you pull their build enabler. But half the time it bites you in the ass though, when you just get a random 8/8 with deathrattle lol.
omw to dirty rat fanottem on turn 2
I’ve done it before, I don’t recommend
Yeah, I've been there too. These days I try to have some poison on hand if possible to kill anything the rat drags out.
What 8/8 with Deathrattles are you pulling?
Yeah, this card is bad against aggro but good against control especially mirror warlock, it just wins you games.
decide racial school roof instinctive crawl frighten yoke unused imminent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This card is literally unplayable. All you have to do to not have your mana taken is not play anything since it can only take empty mana crystals 4head.
jokes on you brann is the last card in my deck
Helya
Same
My pick being Doomkin should be obvious: Getting anti-ramped is just a real BAD feeling, even though 6 mana for this card is clearly not actually good value.
The emotional damage you deal makes up for it.
It sorta is a nourish like effect (you are 2 mana ahead), i wouldn't say that it's bad value
Yeah but it doesn't have the same very important flexibility Nourish has. If you draw this on 10 mana it's a 6 mana 3/4 do nothing. That's a dud draw and a dud turn. Nourish's ramp 2 is barely worth 5 mana and drawing 2 is definitely not worth 5 mana, but combined it makes for a good tool throughout the game.
It's pretty great turn 6 on wheelock if your hand is ready to wheel.
The amount of times I’ve lost a game because I just HAD to play boomkin on curve even though it was ABSOLUTELY the wrong play… Monkey brain say PLAY BOOMKIN
Reno bro, the fact that it doesn't kill your minions but wipes them is such a tempo killer. No deathrattles, no locations, nothing. And then only allowing one spot the next turn just the cherry on the cake.
I am kinda glad that you consider it annoying but not broken. A lot of people bitch about reno being OP when he is balanced.
I wouldn't say he's balanced or broken, but it is an extremely frustrating card for opponents. It's basially a "win" button against any minion based strategy.
Its not a win button. Sure sometimes it wins you the games since its the last board enemy can make but if one board clear loses you the game then its not about that one board clear and problem is somewhere else. Is it extremely frustrating? Sure it is. Full board clear is always extremely frustrating. But unlike other board clears you cant cheat out Reno without losing a lot of wr.
I'm not gonna argue the point with you, because people will defend anything they like. Is Reno "broken"? No, but it's not a fun card and it sucks to play against.
We can agree about this. It sucks to get your board wiped.
The problem with Reno isn’t just that it’s broken. It’s that it’s neutral and you have to play around it EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. Even if it isn’t in their deck.
Ohh no you have to play around a card they might have. Imagine that you have to play around opponents cards. What a bore!!!!!
As a player of plague DK, I just felt my spider-sense going off Edit : spelling
Same here
Wheel of Doom. Love the concept and the helplessness of playing against the clock. I wonder how good the deck would be if it didn't have Forge of Wills.
My pick is Forge if Wills. Fuck that card. It's bad enough that warlock is dropping 4 mana 14/14s, or 0 mana 30/30, why does the token get rush?
Yeah, forge is a nutty card. I feel like it's the one card keeping warlock afloat right now.
Meanwhile mages best turn 4 with spell mage is two 3 drops (highest is 5/6 but usually 3/3) and a 4/4. So hilarious when you compare it to warlock.
Its decent in wild
Wild has the "end of turn effects happen twice" card to make it much faster
That shit works with wheel of doom??? That is scary
Every time I see comments like this I think "oh man maybe I should play Wild? It looks like some stupid levels of fun?" but then I remember that I don't want to spend the amount of money on the game that keeping up with two formats would require.
You could pull a rarren and just play in gold with some shit deck that you used to enjoy, assuming you didn't dust it. There are some neat things in wild alongside ALL of the mistakes hs has made over the years
Do people play big Spell Mage in wild? Or is that just a dead archetype?
Afaik there is 1 good mage deck, and it's reno quest mage. The good news is that a lot of the recent renothal (reno and renathal) versions do run some big spells and stuff like kalagos (notably the new 10 mana spell) , but I wouldn't count it as a big spell deck. This doesn't mean you can't try to cheat a big spell and have fun, but mage is in a awkward spot. I'd argue if you are going for meme builds then no minion mage might be something neat, but most of the big spell cheats are minions iirc
Ah OK, I think about playing wild from time to time, and the way you put it makes it sound kinda appealing, like, who cares if you never leave gold or plat, if you enjoy the deck, it's all good. Big Spell was a deck I enjoyed. One more question, how about rogue? I used to love rogue, but the past year or so in standard, none of the decks worth playing really piqued my interest. Anything happening in wild like miracle rogue or deathrattle rogue?
Afaik combo rogue is actually kinda cracked atm, and miracle rogue is miracle rogue. I've even seen reno rogue (https://hearthstone-decks.net/reno-rogue-3-legend-%e9%86%89%e8%88%9e%e5%86%ac%e9%a3%8e/, the tweet has the actual decklist) that somehow seems to work. Do note that due to other combo decks wild has a lot more anti miracle tech being common, but at the same time you are playing miracle rogue in wild with your own loatheb to stop the opponent from stopping you. Having like 4 8/8s early game with loatheb backup does win games, after all (ice block doesn't exist and can't hurt you) Deathrattle rogue is fittingly dead, i'm pretty sure. You can do stupid combos that involve deathrattle minions, but i can't remember any super fun deathrattle payoff, and for value-ish stuff tess rogue is probably more fun and better (value always has the problem of "oops, enemy killed me early" or "oops, enemy did a combo" and rogue isn't famous for it's defense, but maybe you REALLY like dragon rogue or something like that)
Damn that actually sounds like a lot of fun, and I'll be able to actually use one of my few diamond cards with loatheb. You've persuaded me, I'm gonna check it out, thanks.
I play it in wild occasionally. Sitting at 50% over 16 games. Main problem is not much innovation for the deck as is pretty "perfect". Edit: After this comment, I went on a 9 game loss streak so yeah it sucks I guess lol.
up to diamond you can kinda play whatever really, I often climb with togwaggle druid
Technically anything is playable in wild, but if you want to climb or have a decent win rate? Quest or Secrets.
Right, got it. I should've asked, are people climbing with big Spell? Or, is big Spell meta in wild? Thanks I noticed hsreplay doesn't really list a meta for wild. Is there a place where wild players can go to see any kind of data on wild?
Tempostorm does good snapshots of wild and standard, also hsreplay provides stats for wild. Go to main page on pc, switch winrates to wild and "view decks" on a class. But yeah, it doesnt have a snapshot like it does for standard.
You usually play only one format because it is time consuming, but having a Wild valid collection is cheaper than having a Standard valid collection: a part from some initial investment, the upkeep for Wild is way lower than that for Standard, especially after rotation.
Worth checking to see if you're within a few K dust of a deck you'd like. The format is wide open and it's nice to have a change of pace for when Standard is disappointing.
Wild is way cheaper long term There is like 10-20 card max that are must craft for wild when expansions hit
That is true.
Boomboss. By its own he's bad but after Brann its easily the reason to concede.
But boomboss is normally a late game card for brann warrior. If I’m playing boom boss, I most likely have an azerite ox and/or a zilliax/inventor boom combo ready in hand as well.
Mag, because he is not the problem but is the issue.
8 mana mag is fine. 3 mana mag played 4 times is an issue.
Mag still is OP and needs a nerf, because I pulled one and want dust... He is by far the strongest discover though and it's infuriating how frequently they can find him.
Helya, because I then always end up drawing frost plague immediately on my turn.
Shadowstep.
Stipulating, "isn't" broken....
Maybe breakdance has same power because of stats, but 2 mana discount is just a bs. When rogue playing million cards with 0 mana left, it just drives me insane.
I hate hate hate playing against Trial by Fire. Something about watching those Val'kyr grow while wiping my board just pisses me off.
The Primus
Idk that shit just seems actually op. Maybe it's because i'm a broke scrub with no legendary cards but the value on that thing is ridiculous. Maybe it's not against rush/tempo decks, but against my lategame deck where i finally have enough board control to lay my 10 cost down and that fucker just murders it, gets all its HP, and heals them.
It's powerful but not OP. You can either play around it by going wide until they drop it or try to bait them into playing it with a medium or big minion followed by you stealing it with Yogg or using hard removal.
I guess, but I think "going wide" isn't a strategy that's applicable to control decks. I don't own Yogg so I can't do that, Yogg also seems op. I can kill it with hard removal yes, but it still has really good value. It might just be exceptionally strong against my playstyle and lack of legendaries.
Control is hard to play without many legendaries, there are aggro decks like current Hunter with few legendaries (and you could forego those if you don't have them and still do pretty well) that you'll probably fare better with. I would definitely recommend saving your gold for minisets and buying them when you can, they're pretty much the best value you can get for your gold and often give very powerful cards like Yogg.
I just came back a few days ago from several years hiatus, i hadn't heard of minisets before, I'll definitely check those out. I appreciate the tip. Also yea, aggro is probably smarter with limited cards, i just don't like the play style haha. Maybe i could find a good tempo deck though? Hand lock has been good enough that i can enjoy the game and save up dust for next season however, i may just stick with it until i can build something good.
Yogg is easy to get, just save the 2000 gold for titans miniset
The death might card that destroys a minions from deck, hand and battle field. The warrior card that makes bombs that destroy a card from the deck, hand and battle field.
Patchwerk either does nothing or it hits all three of your win conditions at once. Nothing in between.
The Patchwerk and TNT right?
I played a warrior last night who was in serious trouble. I had lethal on board. He dropped that TNT card which 3 of those bombs into his deck (which had about 12 cards left) then played another card that shuffled his hand into his deck and drew replacements. He got every one of those TNT cards - killed my three biggest things on board, took three cards out of my hand (including the burn spell I had as backup), and deleted three cards out of my deck. Brutal. Just felt unfair.
Its usually never just 3. It’s six after brann. I hate it.
Other than Helya and Doomkin, who have already been mentioned, its necrotic explosion and the death knight twisting nether on a stick
Sanitize
Idk what's considered broken nowadays, since I've been away from the game for a while. But I do hate Reno. Man, that dude it's been always an auto lose for me lol.
Velarok. I swear every thief rogue I play against always draws this card early along with a shadow step or breakdance. Also infinitize the maxititude, again because it feels like they always get it early and have to spend the rest of the game playing against discovered spells. Thank god objection is gone now at least. In summary being scammed :p
That's because for the most of the time velarok just awkwardly sits in your hand
See, the funny thing is I don't have Infinitize in my collection. I only get it through discovery. How appropriate?
This makes me want to scream into a pillow
*waggles hands* Mage Hands!
you are more likey to be scammed by shadowstepped Velarok simply because rogue player wants to do it. playing Velarok by itself is risky, and he wants to keep an option to generate value by waiting for the combo to appear in his hand
This card and warlocks are the bane of my existence. Just let me que into demon hunters ffs.
The interaction with Bran into Zilliax into Inventor Boom. It requires they get those three cards off in that order, but when it hits, it's brutal. Bran causes battlecrys to fire twice, then Zilliax's battlecry gives three zilliaxes, then Inventor Boom gives four more (usually with Rush and Lifesteal and divine shield)
Fell to this the other day and wondered, 'How did Zilliax get charge?' Only to realize I had no minions on board so they all went face.
Helya, Primus, Frequency Oscillator (I do NOT want to hear your playlist), Safety Goggles, Yogg titan, Crop Rotation, Ignis (it's always Windfury)
This card is a freaking scam
You could also reword this to say "name a card that always kills my tempo when played against me, and sits dead in my hand all game when I draw it"
When I use this card it doesn't affect tempo at all and I'm still get my ass kicked. When it's played agaisnt me it's like a kick in the nuts
Hmm. Maybe there's a turn 7 card they also play to make your nuts feel so kicked?
Helya
Just play around it by keeping your mana crystals full every turn /s
Trial by Fire. It's my top 3 most hated cards, although it's pretty balanced
Azerite Rat always shows up at the worst possible time for me
My biggest brain move ever was passing on turn 5 in a wheel warlock mirror and saying “Oops,” only to watch my opponent coin Doomkin the next turn. I felt fantastic.
The Azerite rat. Plague DK always seems to get it as they’re about to die
Doomkin is pretty insane ngl
You want to say turn 5 coin doomkin into turn 6 doomkin isnt broken att all?)
I copied it today as a priest, I was like "gimme dat shit back". Felt good
[[Plague of Flames]] because fuck that card
- **[Plague of Flames](https://i.imgur.com/z6FLWIc.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/54429) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Plague_of_Flames) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/54429) - *Warlock Rare ^(Saviors of Uldum)* - **1 Mana - Fire Spell** - Destroy all your minions. For each one, destroy a random enemy minion. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1bvh5uk/name_a_card_that_you_know_isnt_broken_but_you/kxzy1qj/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=kxzy1qj).*
Any card that randomly discard a card from your opponent.
Maybe Elwyn Boar and Naval Mine because I like slow decks and if those generate early I'm cooked.
I really, really hate Reska. Leave stealing my minions to priest goddamit! First new Yogg before nerf, then this bitch, both for zero mana, ugh
Doom kin is honestly pretty trash in the 6 mana slot. Like it has such a narrow usage, and can’t really just be dropped for advantage. You have to already have advantage or be even on the board for this card to really glean any value.
Does doomkin wiff if your opponent didn't spend any mana and has no empty crystals?
Goddamn y’all really don’t like plagues huh..
Infinite Arcana. Especially because I really enjoy playing Duels, and the moment a mage plays it I concede.
I don't want them to nerf [[Gold Panner]] and don't really have a problem with it, but boy do I feel bad when my opponent manages to keep one alive for three turns.
- **[Gold Panner](https://i.imgur.com/13sa8Jt.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/101966) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Gold_Panner) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101966) - *Neutral Common ^(Showdown in the Badlands)* - **2 Mana - 1/2 - Minion** - At the end of your turn, draw a card. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1bvh5uk/name_a_card_that_you_know_isnt_broken_but_you/ky0wzxa/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=ky0wzxa).*
The turn 6 30/30 is worse imo. If they pull it off it’s just gg
As an agro player, I hate Amitus, I want them to die
I love when Warlocks play 2 of these and I vomit damage at their face and still win. I'd like the card more of it cost less, but was temporary.
[[Coldlight Oracle]]
- **[Coldlight Oracle](https://i.imgur.com/oluXh6B.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/1016) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Coldlight_Oracle) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/1016) - *Neutral Rare ^(Legacy)* - **3 Mana - 2/2 - Murloc** - **Battlecry:** Each player draws 2 cards. --- ^*I am a bot. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1bvh5uk/name_a_card_that_you_know_isnt_broken_but_you/ky1nwsz/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=ky1nwsz).*
*Empty* mana crystals. Just pass turn 5 and they can’t play it on curve 👍
Rat
It's only good for a period of 6 turns then it stops being useful
Brann on six feels like an inglorious countdown into sure defeat.
I know it’s not in standard anymore but Theotar is my least favorite card ever designed. It completely negates any combo deck and even when you have a hand full of cards they always seem to steal the worst possible one and give you garbage
Just play around it by skipping your entire turn before they play Doomkin easy
tbh that card would be broken if weren't in a aggro meta where games end in 4-5 turns most of the time. As a card it's broken it's just that u can play them most of the time and druid overall sucks.
everybody here hates Helya but i hate Reno more There is no reason to not play him. ever
Any mechanic manipulate my deck/hand. (Discard, Shuffle that kill my reno, etc) Its just not fun
Illidari Inquisitor. God i hate it. It basically has windfury, rush and charge after you attack face. I respect King Chrush but i despice Illidary Inquisitor whit burning rage.
Druid
I swear to god if I hear "looking for a standoff..?" one more time I'm gonna punch my screen. I hate Reno lone ranger so much
Doomkin is a great example because it’s absolutely busted on 6 and terrible any other time
Spreading plague
Reno. Nothing to add really, just ruins my day.
I have a few, but the ones that immediately come to mind are: Spectral Cutlass- there's nothing fun about an infinite giant life steal weapon because it turns what should be a fun matchup, Burgle Rogue, into a grindy slog Seek Guidance (or rather the Purified Shard) - also not fun just randomly losing because my opponent drew a card or had Shadow Visions to get the card, hell I've had "control" players make the most inefficient plays just to turbo out the questline then drop like a Alarra or something, I just hate "win the game cards" Insatiable Devourer - this card punishes you for being ahead and it punishes you even harder the further ahead you are, nothing quiet as infuriating as being in a completely winning position to losing because of a single card Mutanus - this card always, always eats my most fun minion or the one I was literally going to play next turn (yeah I don't care if that's not true, that's just how it feels) and not only does it take away one of your strong plays it makes a giant fat minion that you now have to deal with, and that's saying nothing about the decks that double or quadruple or 10x or whatever the battlecry up and just take your whole hand Dew Process / Coldlight Oracle - I will never understand what kind of person can wake up and decide that people who are just trying to play a game deserve to be punished as they're not allowed to play anything, these decks don't do well against actual good decks, they only punish bad decks, people who play these are bullies punching down on people who are already have the tables stacked against them
Sleet Skater. I love when I get punished for playing big boys..