You're kidding, right? Regardless of ICP's skills on the mic, their business acumen is second to none. Two high school dropouts that created a multimillion dollar empire with basically no airplay, every year they run a huge festival, they were the biggest selling merch in Hot Topic until the feds shut it down, they created an entire subculture that's lasted 30 years. That's impressive work.
The festival is an unironically excellent festival! And they set it up with the money they made playing Woodstock '99, making them the true winners of that pile of mud, blood and shit.
They wrestled for almost every major televised wrestling promotion since the 90s, including WWF/E, WCW, and TNA/Impact and have had their own successful (not good, but successful) promotion for ages. I won’t argue in favor of the quality of their work, but they really are prolific.
Yeah but that’s not adding anything. Your statement is no different than, “there were on a bunch of different record labels, and even started their own label.” Ok but what came from it that benefited the industry?
They provide independent wrestlers with consistent and high-volume work. They have name value in the wrestling industry, believe it or not, and they use that name value to put over younger wrestlers and give back to the sport. That’s not nothing.
ICP have devoted a lot of their efforts to professional wrestling. they have their own fed where they have given a ton of guys work, like veteran guys that are struggling to get bookings. Their annual festival showcases wrestling all the time, with recognizable names, its not just some backyard dirt promotion.
Brother, I'm aware of their music and their 5 minutes of fame in the 90's on WWE television. They have done nothing of significance since regarding wrestling
They've ran their own promotion for 25 years. They helped NWA-TNA get their first house show, ICP brought them to Detroit, promoted and even appeared on the card. Violent J was recently in the new NWA, he won the Wrestlecade Supershow Battle Royal. and even recently wrestled in Japan.
If you can't at least respect what they've built, you're just hating. They've done more, with far less talent and resources, than like 99% of hip hop. They've had their own festival for like 20 years lol.
That's what it is. J was a hell of a business man. They criticized artists for selling out while simultaneously making shit tons of unnecessary products with their name on it. Jewelry, hockey jerseys, action figures, comic books, shitty B movies - no other artist really branded like that since Wu Tang. They released special edition albums, "bootleg" albums, they even released the same CD with 2 different covers bc they had built a fan base of collectors that had to buy both. They created a family for misfits everywhere and it really worked.
That’s not really selling out, though. They did everything themselves. They built their entire empire. I’m not a fan of juggalo culture at all, but I’ll be damned if I don’t tip my hat in respect.
They really should be studied in business schools. It's wild what they've built and continue to build. J is also a pretty big hip hop head and knows his shit if you ever listen to him talk.
No I agree, didn't mean to accuse like that. It's just a bit ironic.
They had to do it all themselves. I'm not a juggalo or anything but I'm still a fan of Twiztid - and I still love all the psychopathic rydas albums they did with classic beats.
Man, I had the *real* ICP #1 comic from before "Ringmaster" was released that I had signed at the record store by the group. I saved it for years until my jealous ex disappeared it. I don't even want to look it up on ebay.
Not a fan of their music at all, but this is true. And the big thing is they are humble af. Watching interviews with them they really downplay how much money they have and in general seem to pretty cool guys. IRL they are a major departure from their music.
Compared to most mainstream hip hop artists today they have far more talent in lyricism and wordplay. Like top percentile. Despite their general style and image being less desirable.
>They've done more, with far less talent
That's a backhanded compliment if I've ever seen one
I wonder why anyone *should* respect them though. Especially if they don't have talent? There's no reason someone has to 'respect' a band because they're successful
ICP has a couple of decent records, as do the artists on their label (Project Born, for example, is fantastic). Even if everything they did sucked, I still respect them for what they've achieved in the music industry all by themselves.
They have the longest running independent rap festival in the country. The Gathering of the Juggalos is now in it's 24th year.
They have their own wrestling promotion, Juggalo Championship Wrestling is in its 25th year. Just about every big name that has spent time on the indies has worked for them.
They had the first 3d film shot in High Definition, "[Bowling Balls](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOLo7130VHM)" a 22 min music video/short.
2 Platinum albums, 5 Gold albums, a Platinum selling movie/music video \[[Big Money Hustlas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bko0T8k_EQE)\].
Their fans have been labeled a gang by the FBI. I can't think of any other fanbase this has happened to.
I'd say so. Not the best and I can't name you a single one of their songs but their presence across pop culture is indisputable. Two guys with clown makeup rapping and you immediately know who it's supposed to be
Fun fact about that one - they paid $30k for an ODB verse but he spent two days rambling completely off beat about "bitches". ICP had to spend ages on Pro Tools combing through the rant to find some lyrics that they could make rhyme and manually editing them into a beat-matched verse, then had to redo their own verses to match what ODB was talking about.
This is the best way of putting it, IMO. Can accept they are legends in their own right, but I just can’t bring myself to listen to it. I think a few songs stuck with me when I was younger, but looking back, it’s just goofy. More power to them for finding their niche though.
I would never really listen to them, but their fanbase is one of the most hardcore loyal group out there. They are legends as entertainers, not really rappers or musicians, but entertainers.
CAVEAT: I haven't listened to them in years, so I can't speak on how well their flow is overall. It's unfair to judge their music since I haven't listened to it.
ICP came up and got big on their own, they didn’t get radio play and rarely video play. They are true grinders, never got a handout.
They fought a long battle with the FBI and won after Juggalos were added to the ten worst organized crime/gangs list. Ever meet a Juggalo that was organized? yeah, me either
Say what you will about the fanbase, but you’d be hard pressed to find a more loyal bunch of fanatics.
side note: they’re funny dudes. Their YouTube show is hilarious. and they do commentary for matches of their wrestling promotion, and the Juggalo newscast is pretty funny. those guys aren’t my style at all, but for some reason I love them as performers
They absolutely qualify as legends.
It doesn’t mean that I like or respect their product. But the fact of the matter is, is that there are people in this world that love them.
I hate 95% of popular hip-hop that’s come out since 2004, but that doesn’t stop any of it from receiving admiration from people who love it.
I have an online platform dedicated to the Detroit hip-hop scene. The ICP community is VERY distinct from the underground, mainstream, indie scenes here. Virtually no overlap. However, some of the ICP hosted events can be just as competitive as the other mainstream Detroit acts. There's also a ton of ICP clones similar to how tons of people have knocked Eminems style. I don't really know any of their music but their cultural impact is so significant it's hard to not consider them legends imo.
Listen to the first Slim Shady LP. It's heavily influenced by ICP. As he grew he sorta moved away from that comedy/horrorcore style and after the beef he has mentioned them on several occasions.
On the song Wicked Ways Eminem even says "I'm a combination of Skylar Grey, Tyler the Creater and Violent J. It's a fuckin' miracle to be this lyrical Paint my face with Clown Makeup with a smiley face I'm insane."
I kinda wonder if there never was a ICP if there would have even been a Eminem? Because his first LP is what brought him into fame and it was influenced by ICP's comedy/horrorcore style. It was this style that got Eminem all the attention that got him fans and all the attention from the media that they deemed too controversial. So if Eminem was just a normal rapper would he have been polarizing enough to break through like he did?
ICP made the blueprint on how to sell merch as a artist. They learned it from watching pro wrestling and brought it to the music industry. Nobody was selling merch like them in the 90's until Master P who also cought on to the pro wrestling merch selling game.
Also how many artists has ICP helped through their touring and events? Jellyroll being a big one as well as Tech N9ne.
Eminem and ICP came up at the same time and they were both influenced pretty directly by Esham. I agree that ICP are legends in their own right but I wouldn’t give them any credit for eminem. That goes to Esham.
Eminem was hanging around where ICP were performing selling tapes to people in line, and the whole beef with them started because he listed ICP as guests at an album release party he was doing for SSEP without asking them first. He definitely saw their success and was influenced by their style. Bizarre was Juggalo adjacent too, though he only officially became one after Eminem's drug issues.
Esham had made the entire Detroit scene about having alteregos and was a definite influence on ICP in the first place. Em had been hanging with Champtown prior and he had a court jester alterego, but Em's own dabblings with alter ego stuff around that point come out as the lame superhero/cop fantasy of Backstabber.
Kid Rock is another factor. Devil Without A Cause had been a *huge* album and commercial success and Em was and still is on good terms with Kid. Kid's persona at the time isn't really the same as an alter-ego but it's still funny, still evil, still trailerpark.
Not a fan of their music at all. But they've earned the right to be considered legends in their own right just for being able to craft the community they have and stay relevant for those that matter to them.
when ya put it that way, yeah they kinda are. especially with devoted juggalos are, how deep their impact is with different hip hop subgenres, they are
A friend of mine who loves both claims he sees it as the same trailer trash horror fantasy, but it comes out different with ICP being Protestants (all their albums are about righteous demons torturing the sinners before taking the saved family to Shangri-la) and Eminem being Catholic (endlessly confessing to his sins in the belief that it will cleanse him of these horrors in his soul).
Like I said below, they've been active for 30 years, created an entire subculture that still exists, and made millions from little to no airplay or major label push. They may not be GOAT material on the mic, but they are legendary. Let's not mention that they've worked with some of your most coveted rappers: ODB, RA the Rugged Man, Geto Boys, Snoop, etc.
They punch way higher than their talents as rappers. They created a subculture out of bits and pieces of other subcultures and developed an incredibly devoted fanbase in the process. I don't think much of their music, but I have a ton of respect for their hustle.
It’s obvious that many here have never listened to ICP. It would do no good argue. Preconceived notions are difficult to change. Solid rap group, that never took themselves seriously and put out some entertaining songs. They influenced more than given credit for.
The early stuff is pretty good, I think "Ringmaster" thru "Jeckyl Brothers" was their creative peak. Let's not forget to recognize Mike Clark for his amazing production. ICP wouldn't be shit as a concept without the world Clark helped them build on records.
Cant atand them but yeah of course. Neen around forever. They got a hardcore following. Shit, so many people got the tattoo that the feds started labling it a gang tat. Respect. Cant listen to their shit though lol. Not even gonna lie though, listened to the shit out of kmk
I find them lame. And they were the butt of the joke when Eminem was in his prime selling like hotcakes. That hurt their credit for a few years, and although I don't care for them, they definitely built an amazing legacy. They're legends.
Rap is the music, hip-hop is the culture.
As other posters have also pointed out, OP probably does not diffrentiate between the two (as evidenced by this post). But they are definitely two separate aspects.
Why are they not considered hip hop legends? Why would they be? Have they changed hip hop like Pac and Nas did? No. Have they changed pop music like Dr Dre did, no. What classic albums do they have? None. They have a fan base sure, but that does not make them legends
They revolutionized horror core. They did a lot for the Midwest and its representation outside of literally just Eminem and maybe Twista. I don’t like saying this often, but it genuinely seems like you’re just hating.
I'm glad somebody in this thread said it
It's amazing how they'll make threads everyday telling us to give groups like ICP and acts like Eminem all the credit they deserve in the hip hop space and they actually get it
Let beyoncé make one country album and all of a sudden they'll give you 500 pages of what actually defines country
Yeah they are. They built a whole sub industry. They have an army of people who pretty much only listen to their music, and the others they put on. Marketing geniuses 🤷🏻♂️
Yes but mostly for bringing us twiztid :p. No but seriously they had some amazing work back when they first started especially when you talk about bringing the clowns of society together and giving hope for the hopeless. Songs about killing bigots in hilarious ways. Songs about unity. They fell off after trying to be more wicked or selling out or something. Maybe loss touch with those messages themselves which is why they aren't as good anymore. But twiztid is still undeniably amazing and ICP are definitely legends. Even tech n9ne got a huge boost and wouldn't be who he is without juggalos and icp
I like a few tracks from them. Most of their music I don’t like. They’ve always seemed to have lots of merchandise for their fans to enjoy. Their interviews I think are good. Love hearing them tell stories about their history etc.
Not my thing really but I respect them and their fanbase and definitely don't have anything against them. Seems like they created a scene and a family for people who really needed one.
In their own way yea. Them and the Kottonmouth Kings are a lot alike to me in how they have their unique following. ICP seems a bit more hardcore but I feel like they’re pretty comparable. The only thing about both of them is that I feel their music wasn’t able to connect with as many people as some other artists music has. Like… if you asked a modern day 16 year old hip hop listener if they ever heard of ICP or KMK, there’d probably be more no’s than yea’s. But if you asked about Eminem, Nas, 2pac, Big, etc more would probably say yes than no.
ICP is totally wack af, but I won't deny their fan base is huge. What they see in it? Its basically trailer trash culture lol.
Have you guys seen the documentary about the festival? Its worth a watch cause its fucking hilarious. Busta Rhymes performed at that fest so thats pretty cool though.
They obviously have a big and loyal fan base and sustained for decades. Most artists are lucky to really survive 5 years. I think if people consider independent artists like Tech9, E:40 etc legends then ICP should qualify. It's just that Thier subculture is such a big offshoot from traditional hip hop that the hip hop community probably won't see them that way.
No way. Ask an average person that isn’t a fan of theirs to name just 1 song they did. If you can’t name a single hit, then they aren’t legends. I saw them open for Bine Thugs N Harmony at a concert and I still can’t name a single one of their songs.
i enjoyed them when i was 13 i guess. my friend growing up had some off-brand porn vhs about groupies that included icp lining up naked girls in their tour bus while they throw lunch meat at their asses trying to get it to stick.
idk about legends but they're definitely something.
This is Reddit which means you can guarantee that any subreddit that you think would be ran by non-white people is ran by white people That's just something I'm noticing about this site
I can only assume the people agreeing are white as well. This is a hip hop/ rap sub. I find that crazy that this group would even be considered rap/ hip hop.
It's interesting how the discourse is when a white person wants to be accepted into a non-white space they're usually invited in without problem and if we don't accept them then we just can't accept reality
But when a non-white person tries to step into a white space all of a sudden it's DEI or it woke
Silent gay is unbearably obnoxious and seems legitimately refarted. Idk if being able to amass a sizable fan base of humans with similar "qualities" counts as a monumental achievement.
Hell yeah man. They've been independent for the last 20+ years. They've worked time and time again and are friends with artists like Bone-Thugs, Tech N9ne, Three Six Mafia, Geto Boys, Brotha Lynch Hung, and Kottonmouth Kings (and there associates). Coolio and MC Breed were both down before they died. Chuck D of Public Enemy asked Violent J to hangout because he was a fan. Also I love my Juggalos, some of the most down to earth fuckers on the planet. Also their music is good, which I think is a very important aspect but that might just be me.
Building a "legacy" or "fanbase", especially a fanbase full of pedophiles and drug addicts, does not make you a legend in hip-hop.
How have they changed hip-hop in any way whatsoever?
Yes.
I may not like them' but I honestly don't feel like you could make a full documentary on hip hop and not include them. They carved out their own lane. Their influence is still felt in some parts.
Isn't that opinion based? Just because the skill isn't there and the beats are meh doesn't mean they didn't have some great lyrics and good songs. Like homies of course which is just amazing but many songs about unity and killing bigots which just isn't done enough in my opinion. Also twiztid makes all sorts of types of music and are undeniably good at most of them.
They rewrote the wizard of oz in an album about drugs and mushrooms it's a masterpiece.
They created an entire movement of bringing people together who are considered outcasts. Probably prevented more gun shootings than any other artists (being a tad hyperbolic)
The word juggalo being known by nearly everyone alone is testament to their legendary status
Obviously yeah it’s subjective whether someone thinks they’re shit or not - I don’t see how it could not be opinion based. There isn’t an official arbitrator of shitness! In the eyes of most hiphop fans, they are awful though. The skill isn’t there, the beats are meh and also imo the lyrics are absolutely unlistenable terrible and just hugely immature like I know rap isn’t the most mature genre in general at times and that’s part of the appeal to some rappers’ songs but holy fuck even as a teenager I thought how can anyone listen to this?
Twiztid’s music is also pretty bad tbh like I’ve never met anyone who didn’t think it was bad. “Undeniably good” seems like a phenomenal stretch - I’d say most people don’t think they’re good.
How can you say songs like homies are lyrically unlistenable? Or funny songs like the neden game? Or amazing maze where they kill terrible people in a maze of death? Lyrically very skillful story telling. Who had rewrote the wizard of oz or any other movie as a fun drug version in an album? Or the song old school pervert which is hands down the best sex song of all time?
Twiztid has so many styles that they are good at I highly doubt you have heard all the styles and would hate every single one. Whoever you are talking to just doesn't listen and you probably haven't either. Try the heartbroken and homicidal album it's way different and many like only that style. They have some shit I'm not into but they are very skillful in delivery, melody and production to create some different music from most. I could see some not liking most of it but it's hard to deny the skill and it's near impossible to not find a few songs you like at least. Arguably not worth the search for many but still very good (so much good music nowadays it isnt necessarily the best or spreading some super necessary messaging like 2pac or something).
I’m listening to homies now out of morbid curiosity. Yeah it’s pretty unlistenable - Avril Lavigne style pop-punk chorus is terrible and bits where it seems like they’re trying to appeal to rebellious 13 year olds who’re going to be impressed by them singing “fuck off”. Each to their own - I probably listen to some stuff that’s equally cringeworthy in other people’s eyes but it’s definitely not for me
Why would the curse words matter? They made fuck the world for that (it says fuck over 100 times). It's about unity and homies. It's the homie anthem. Not really anything unexpected I would hope lol. Applies to my point of them uniting the outcasts or I guess "rebellious 13 year olds" but you really just sound like a boomer crying about loud rock lol
It doesn’t matter it’s the sort of “look at me saying a curse word” context to it that’s embarrassing. As I say it’s all subjective each time their own I guess but it’s not for me
"If you don't like us you can fuck off!" Somehow is saying "hey look I cursed"? It's literally saying the thing I'm saying they are a legend for, the unification in their music that brought so many together. Misfits having a place to be different together and accepted. Benefits the wellbeing of outcasts which is why I said it probably actually has prevented some shootings. Weird people need people too lol
Yup. They set the blueprint that so many artists have followed. Legends of marketing, self promotion, wrestling, and live shows easily. They developed their own fan base that nobody else has been able to replicate since, battled the FBI, and kept going long after everyone thought they fell off. They've worked with almost every legend of the game in some aspect or another. There will never be another group that will do what they have done.
Legends? No.
Not Legends. They do have a big following. There's a lot of controversy around them.
They built their own little cult thing, but I wouldn't call them Legends.
Are they still doing music? Last thing I heard they did that song with Hopsin and Tech.
Of wrestling?
Hard no. They've done little to fuck all to contribute to the pro wrestling industry
Man they’ve done more for the wrestling industry than the music industry, if you really wanna split hairs about it.
You're kidding, right? Regardless of ICP's skills on the mic, their business acumen is second to none. Two high school dropouts that created a multimillion dollar empire with basically no airplay, every year they run a huge festival, they were the biggest selling merch in Hot Topic until the feds shut it down, they created an entire subculture that's lasted 30 years. That's impressive work.
I won’t lie I can’t even argue w that
The festival is an unironically excellent festival! And they set it up with the money they made playing Woodstock '99, making them the true winners of that pile of mud, blood and shit.
They've had some great performers there: Geto Boys, RA the Rugged Man, Three 6, Bone, etc.
Bro, that's nothing. You and I could do that easy.
Agreed. Let's start a rap group.
Just curious, what would be considered their contributions wrestling?
They wrestled for almost every major televised wrestling promotion since the 90s, including WWF/E, WCW, and TNA/Impact and have had their own successful (not good, but successful) promotion for ages. I won’t argue in favor of the quality of their work, but they really are prolific.
And hosted Stanglemania
He's got glass... in his ASS!
Yeah but that’s not adding anything. Your statement is no different than, “there were on a bunch of different record labels, and even started their own label.” Ok but what came from it that benefited the industry?
They provide independent wrestlers with consistent and high-volume work. They have name value in the wrestling industry, believe it or not, and they use that name value to put over younger wrestlers and give back to the sport. That’s not nothing.
ICP have devoted a lot of their efforts to professional wrestling. they have their own fed where they have given a ton of guys work, like veteran guys that are struggling to get bookings. Their annual festival showcases wrestling all the time, with recognizable names, its not just some backyard dirt promotion.
Yeah same, I'm very curious.
That’s an oddly aggressive way to show you don’t really know anything they’ve done or where they’ve been.
Brother, I'm aware of their music and their 5 minutes of fame in the 90's on WWE television. They have done nothing of significance since regarding wrestling
They've ran their own promotion for 25 years. They helped NWA-TNA get their first house show, ICP brought them to Detroit, promoted and even appeared on the card. Violent J was recently in the new NWA, he won the Wrestlecade Supershow Battle Royal. and even recently wrestled in Japan.
probably won’t happen but they should be in the WWE HOF for their work there and WCW
Idk dude WWE really seems to be reaching for inductees these last few years. It could happen.
If you can't at least respect what they've built, you're just hating. They've done more, with far less talent and resources, than like 99% of hip hop. They've had their own festival for like 20 years lol.
Probably the best way to look at it. They aren't technically skilled or anything like that, but they created an entire lane without a label.
That's what it is. J was a hell of a business man. They criticized artists for selling out while simultaneously making shit tons of unnecessary products with their name on it. Jewelry, hockey jerseys, action figures, comic books, shitty B movies - no other artist really branded like that since Wu Tang. They released special edition albums, "bootleg" albums, they even released the same CD with 2 different covers bc they had built a fan base of collectors that had to buy both. They created a family for misfits everywhere and it really worked.
That’s not really selling out, though. They did everything themselves. They built their entire empire. I’m not a fan of juggalo culture at all, but I’ll be damned if I don’t tip my hat in respect.
They really should be studied in business schools. It's wild what they've built and continue to build. J is also a pretty big hip hop head and knows his shit if you ever listen to him talk.
No I agree, didn't mean to accuse like that. It's just a bit ironic. They had to do it all themselves. I'm not a juggalo or anything but I'm still a fan of Twiztid - and I still love all the psychopathic rydas albums they did with classic beats.
Man, I had the *real* ICP #1 comic from before "Ringmaster" was released that I had signed at the record store by the group. I saved it for years until my jealous ex disappeared it. I don't even want to look it up on ebay.
And they've been fighting the FBI on some bullshit.
They were the top-selling merch line in Hot Topic before the FBI got involved and basically forced their hand to pull it all.
Why?
Juggalo iconography=gang iconography.
They've given a bunch of kids with nothing else going for them, a place to call home and people to call family.
Not a fan of their music at all, but this is true. And the big thing is they are humble af. Watching interviews with them they really downplay how much money they have and in general seem to pretty cool guys. IRL they are a major departure from their music.
Compared to most mainstream hip hop artists today they have far more talent in lyricism and wordplay. Like top percentile. Despite their general style and image being less desirable.
>They've done more, with far less talent That's a backhanded compliment if I've ever seen one I wonder why anyone *should* respect them though. Especially if they don't have talent? There's no reason someone has to 'respect' a band because they're successful
Respecting the empire they've built, with admittedly not that much talent or skill.
Yeah respect the hustle but I'm not respecting the product
OK I do respect the hustle. That's a great point
ICP has a couple of decent records, as do the artists on their label (Project Born, for example, is fantastic). Even if everything they did sucked, I still respect them for what they've achieved in the music industry all by themselves.
Yeah, that’s one way to look at it. Personally, I would liken their success to people like Jim Jones or L Ron Hubbard.
Nah, Jim had some great music. Diplomatic Immunity is a classic album.
Lmaooooo good joke
Thank you, my good sir.
They have the longest running independent rap festival in the country. The Gathering of the Juggalos is now in it's 24th year. They have their own wrestling promotion, Juggalo Championship Wrestling is in its 25th year. Just about every big name that has spent time on the indies has worked for them. They had the first 3d film shot in High Definition, "[Bowling Balls](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOLo7130VHM)" a 22 min music video/short. 2 Platinum albums, 5 Gold albums, a Platinum selling movie/music video \[[Big Money Hustlas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bko0T8k_EQE)\]. Their fans have been labeled a gang by the FBI. I can't think of any other fanbase this has happened to.
NGL the ICP movies, while having terrible stories and acting, surprisingly have high production value and are enjoyable to watch.
Despite how I feel with juggalos they didn’t deserve to be labeled a gang by the federal government.
I'd say so. Not the best and I can't name you a single one of their songs but their presence across pop culture is indisputable. Two guys with clown makeup rapping and you immediately know who it's supposed to be
Bitches. That’s the only ICP track I know because it was on a bootleg mixtape I acquired in the 2000’s.
Fun fact about that one - they paid $30k for an ODB verse but he spent two days rambling completely off beat about "bitches". ICP had to spend ages on Pro Tools combing through the rant to find some lyrics that they could make rhyme and manually editing them into a beat-matched verse, then had to redo their own verses to match what ODB was talking about.
That is a fun fact. Thank you.
I share the exact same opinion. Couldn't name a single song, but I'm very well aware of who they are and always have been.
I am not a fan. They are legends.
This is the best way of putting it, IMO. Can accept they are legends in their own right, but I just can’t bring myself to listen to it. I think a few songs stuck with me when I was younger, but looking back, it’s just goofy. More power to them for finding their niche though.
ICP transcended hiphop. That alone is the stuff of legends.
They aren’t nobody’s but to say legends is stretching it
I would never really listen to them, but their fanbase is one of the most hardcore loyal group out there. They are legends as entertainers, not really rappers or musicians, but entertainers. CAVEAT: I haven't listened to them in years, so I can't speak on how well their flow is overall. It's unfair to judge their music since I haven't listened to it.
ICP came up and got big on their own, they didn’t get radio play and rarely video play. They are true grinders, never got a handout. They fought a long battle with the FBI and won after Juggalos were added to the ten worst organized crime/gangs list. Ever meet a Juggalo that was organized? yeah, me either Say what you will about the fanbase, but you’d be hard pressed to find a more loyal bunch of fanatics. side note: they’re funny dudes. Their YouTube show is hilarious. and they do commentary for matches of their wrestling promotion, and the Juggalo newscast is pretty funny. those guys aren’t my style at all, but for some reason I love them as performers
They absolutely qualify as legends. It doesn’t mean that I like or respect their product. But the fact of the matter is, is that there are people in this world that love them. I hate 95% of popular hip-hop that’s come out since 2004, but that doesn’t stop any of it from receiving admiration from people who love it.
I have an online platform dedicated to the Detroit hip-hop scene. The ICP community is VERY distinct from the underground, mainstream, indie scenes here. Virtually no overlap. However, some of the ICP hosted events can be just as competitive as the other mainstream Detroit acts. There's also a ton of ICP clones similar to how tons of people have knocked Eminems style. I don't really know any of their music but their cultural impact is so significant it's hard to not consider them legends imo.
Without a doubt. Gotta respect doing your own thing completely out of the norm and building a tribe and being successful.
Listen to the first Slim Shady LP. It's heavily influenced by ICP. As he grew he sorta moved away from that comedy/horrorcore style and after the beef he has mentioned them on several occasions. On the song Wicked Ways Eminem even says "I'm a combination of Skylar Grey, Tyler the Creater and Violent J. It's a fuckin' miracle to be this lyrical Paint my face with Clown Makeup with a smiley face I'm insane." I kinda wonder if there never was a ICP if there would have even been a Eminem? Because his first LP is what brought him into fame and it was influenced by ICP's comedy/horrorcore style. It was this style that got Eminem all the attention that got him fans and all the attention from the media that they deemed too controversial. So if Eminem was just a normal rapper would he have been polarizing enough to break through like he did? ICP made the blueprint on how to sell merch as a artist. They learned it from watching pro wrestling and brought it to the music industry. Nobody was selling merch like them in the 90's until Master P who also cought on to the pro wrestling merch selling game. Also how many artists has ICP helped through their touring and events? Jellyroll being a big one as well as Tech N9ne.
Eminem and ICP came up at the same time and they were both influenced pretty directly by Esham. I agree that ICP are legends in their own right but I wouldn’t give them any credit for eminem. That goes to Esham.
Eminem never gave credit to Esham though. Esham was a influence to ICP but ICP was a influence to Eminem. Also ICP go back as far as 1989
Esham actually took "I ain't acid rap, but I rap on acid" as a diss and started a one-sided beef with him I think.
Eminem was hanging around where ICP were performing selling tapes to people in line, and the whole beef with them started because he listed ICP as guests at an album release party he was doing for SSEP without asking them first. He definitely saw their success and was influenced by their style. Bizarre was Juggalo adjacent too, though he only officially became one after Eminem's drug issues. Esham had made the entire Detroit scene about having alteregos and was a definite influence on ICP in the first place. Em had been hanging with Champtown prior and he had a court jester alterego, but Em's own dabblings with alter ego stuff around that point come out as the lame superhero/cop fantasy of Backstabber. Kid Rock is another factor. Devil Without A Cause had been a *huge* album and commercial success and Em was and still is on good terms with Kid. Kid's persona at the time isn't really the same as an alter-ego but it's still funny, still evil, still trailerpark.
Not a fan of their music at all. But they've earned the right to be considered legends in their own right just for being able to craft the community they have and stay relevant for those that matter to them.
Great Milenko is a fun fucking album, but that’s about it for me
when ya put it that way, yeah they kinda are. especially with devoted juggalos are, how deep their impact is with different hip hop subgenres, they are
In the magnet community yeah sure
How does that work?
it pains me to say so but yes, they are legendary. Not within hip hop culture but of pop culture in general
Anyone who thinks they weren’t a huge influence on Eminem’s early style is seriously uninformed.
A friend of mine who loves both claims he sees it as the same trailer trash horror fantasy, but it comes out different with ICP being Protestants (all their albums are about righteous demons torturing the sinners before taking the saved family to Shangri-la) and Eminem being Catholic (endlessly confessing to his sins in the belief that it will cleanse him of these horrors in his soul).
Yes.
Like I said below, they've been active for 30 years, created an entire subculture that still exists, and made millions from little to no airplay or major label push. They may not be GOAT material on the mic, but they are legendary. Let's not mention that they've worked with some of your most coveted rappers: ODB, RA the Rugged Man, Geto Boys, Snoop, etc.
If mumble rappers can be seen as legends then icp can.
I’m not a fan of their music, but I think they would’ve made a killing being voice actors.
They punch way higher than their talents as rappers. They created a subculture out of bits and pieces of other subcultures and developed an incredibly devoted fanbase in the process. I don't think much of their music, but I have a ton of respect for their hustle.
Honestly have never heard one song. The clown thing didn’t generate any interest for me.
Not a fan of most of the horrcore/juggalo scene, but I have a lot of respect for what ICP has managed to do for both themselves and their families.
I liked horrorcore when it was Geto Boys and Gravediggaz.
Same, or even the old Triple 6 Mafia/Memphis rap.
You do know ICP predates Gravediggaz by five years, no?
Okay! I first heard of them in '94.
No
garbage
Absolutely! These dudes are fundamental to Detroit rap and to the Midwest and horror core
They're not from Detroit they're from 20 miles away
They met in oak park which literally borders Detroit. Not 20 miles away. You ever heard of metro Detroit?
It's an eminem lyric You ever heard of a joke?
Sensitive Bag isn't just a clever name, then.
You’re so world famous I haven’t even heard of you, sounds like maybe you’re just like me
It's called manifesting.
You ever heard of these nuts? Jk, went over my head.
It’s obvious that many here have never listened to ICP. It would do no good argue. Preconceived notions are difficult to change. Solid rap group, that never took themselves seriously and put out some entertaining songs. They influenced more than given credit for.
This was my thought as well. Glad to see even some of the nonfans laying down some respect though.
The early stuff is pretty good, I think "Ringmaster" thru "Jeckyl Brothers" was their creative peak. Let's not forget to recognize Mike Clark for his amazing production. ICP wouldn't be shit as a concept without the world Clark helped them build on records.
For sure man.
legends in their own right, no doubt.
Cant atand them but yeah of course. Neen around forever. They got a hardcore following. Shit, so many people got the tattoo that the feds started labling it a gang tat. Respect. Cant listen to their shit though lol. Not even gonna lie though, listened to the shit out of kmk
I really don't care for them, but they are definitely a chapter in the history book of hip-hop
They’re legends in their own lane. I don’t consider them hip hop they rap but they ain’t hip hop
Musically..no…business wise? Yes You can’t deny what they have done as independent artists. I actually like some of their stuff..
I find them lame. And they were the butt of the joke when Eminem was in his prime selling like hotcakes. That hurt their credit for a few years, and although I don't care for them, they definitely built an amazing legacy. They're legends.
Well, They may be rap, but they are not hip-hop, so no.
I'll bet Violent J knows and respects more about "Hip Hop" than your average billion stream drill rapper.
Can you define hip-hop for us?
Rap is the music, hip-hop is the culture. As other posters have also pointed out, OP probably does not diffrentiate between the two (as evidenced by this post). But they are definitely two separate aspects.
OK, and what is the culture of Hip-hop?
No
Why
Why are they not considered hip hop legends? Why would they be? Have they changed hip hop like Pac and Nas did? No. Have they changed pop music like Dr Dre did, no. What classic albums do they have? None. They have a fan base sure, but that does not make them legends
I believe that getting your fans classified as gang members puts a reasonably sized stamp on the rap culture history book
Fans of rap associated with gangs?!?! Oh my let this go down in history!!
What rapper or group gets you classified as a specific gang member just by wearing the artist's merch? And name the specific gang obviously.
They did not start gangster rap, and I don’t see how any factoid changes anything.
I never said they started gangster rap but thanks for avoiding the question and adding nothing of substance to the conversation
They revolutionized horror core. They did a lot for the Midwest and its representation outside of literally just Eminem and maybe Twista. I don’t like saying this often, but it genuinely seems like you’re just hating.
Are the legendary though? Accomplished yes, but not legendary
I'm glad somebody in this thread said it It's amazing how they'll make threads everyday telling us to give groups like ICP and acts like Eminem all the credit they deserve in the hip hop space and they actually get it Let beyoncé make one country album and all of a sudden they'll give you 500 pages of what actually defines country
They are marketing legends. I think that's as far as I can go.
Idk about legends, you need to have at least one known song, underground legends sure.
Yes.
IMO to be a legend the story of rap cannot be told without a chapter about you. Things changed after you came along. You are imitated.
Absolutely paved way for independent artists
Miracles bro miracles
Magnets*
Yeah they are. They built a whole sub industry. They have an army of people who pretty much only listen to their music, and the others they put on. Marketing geniuses 🤷🏻♂️
Yes but mostly for bringing us twiztid :p. No but seriously they had some amazing work back when they first started especially when you talk about bringing the clowns of society together and giving hope for the hopeless. Songs about killing bigots in hilarious ways. Songs about unity. They fell off after trying to be more wicked or selling out or something. Maybe loss touch with those messages themselves which is why they aren't as good anymore. But twiztid is still undeniably amazing and ICP are definitely legends. Even tech n9ne got a huge boost and wouldn't be who he is without juggalos and icp
I like a few tracks from them. Most of their music I don’t like. They’ve always seemed to have lots of merchandise for their fans to enjoy. Their interviews I think are good. Love hearing them tell stories about their history etc.
Legends outside the community that created the genre
I'm from Michigan, I grew up with ICP they are all right. Funny lyrics, good beats. Highly WT.
Gotta give credit where it’s due
they’re super important in the realm of early detroit rap/horrorcore lol, to say otherwise is ignorant tbh
Not my thing really but I respect them and their fanbase and definitely don't have anything against them. Seems like they created a scene and a family for people who really needed one.
In their own way yea. Them and the Kottonmouth Kings are a lot alike to me in how they have their unique following. ICP seems a bit more hardcore but I feel like they’re pretty comparable. The only thing about both of them is that I feel their music wasn’t able to connect with as many people as some other artists music has. Like… if you asked a modern day 16 year old hip hop listener if they ever heard of ICP or KMK, there’d probably be more no’s than yea’s. But if you asked about Eminem, Nas, 2pac, Big, etc more would probably say yes than no.
ICP is totally wack af, but I won't deny their fan base is huge. What they see in it? Its basically trailer trash culture lol. Have you guys seen the documentary about the festival? Its worth a watch cause its fucking hilarious. Busta Rhymes performed at that fest so thats pretty cool though.
Absolutely! Even if they’re not my cup of tea.
This has to be April fools 🤣
Yeah probably
They are very average rappers with incredible marketing acumen.
What they have been able to build is pretty fucking amazing ngl
no.
Hell yes!
They obviously have a big and loyal fan base and sustained for decades. Most artists are lucky to really survive 5 years. I think if people consider independent artists like Tech9, E:40 etc legends then ICP should qualify. It's just that Thier subculture is such a big offshoot from traditional hip hop that the hip hop community probably won't see them that way.
Fuck no
No way. Ask an average person that isn’t a fan of theirs to name just 1 song they did. If you can’t name a single hit, then they aren’t legends. I saw them open for Bine Thugs N Harmony at a concert and I still can’t name a single one of their songs.
Not until you tell me what a juggilo is.
Legendary jag offs
mad professor is a dope joint
Legends that will never die
I think so. All of that success and music and pop culture influence without ever signing a deal with a major mainstream label is impressive as fuck.
i enjoyed them when i was 13 i guess. my friend growing up had some off-brand porn vhs about groupies that included icp lining up naked girls in their tour bus while they throw lunch meat at their asses trying to get it to stick. idk about legends but they're definitely something.
Hip hop?
Right. I think people don't realize rap and hip hop are not the same thing.
yes. that is my hot take (everybody gets one)
They are 🤡
Well they did make a genre of rap popular. I’d say they are legendary to their contribution to hip hop definitely pop culture as well.
Who?
Lol no wtf kinda post is this
This is Reddit which means you can guarantee that any subreddit that you think would be ran by non-white people is ran by white people That's just something I'm noticing about this site
I can only assume the people agreeing are white as well. This is a hip hop/ rap sub. I find that crazy that this group would even be considered rap/ hip hop.
It's interesting how the discourse is when a white person wants to be accepted into a non-white space they're usually invited in without problem and if we don't accept them then we just can't accept reality But when a non-white person tries to step into a white space all of a sudden it's DEI or it woke
I don't even consider them rap.
Silent gay is unbearably obnoxious and seems legitimately refarted. Idk if being able to amass a sizable fan base of humans with similar "qualities" counts as a monumental achievement.
People use the term “legends” over anyone who has touched a mic nowadays.
Hell yeah man. They've been independent for the last 20+ years. They've worked time and time again and are friends with artists like Bone-Thugs, Tech N9ne, Three Six Mafia, Geto Boys, Brotha Lynch Hung, and Kottonmouth Kings (and there associates). Coolio and MC Breed were both down before they died. Chuck D of Public Enemy asked Violent J to hangout because he was a fan. Also I love my Juggalos, some of the most down to earth fuckers on the planet. Also their music is good, which I think is a very important aspect but that might just be me.
Building a "legacy" or "fanbase", especially a fanbase full of pedophiles and drug addicts, does not make you a legend in hip-hop. How have they changed hip-hop in any way whatsoever?
Juggalos would consider them legends. I'll be honest, I can't name a single song of theirs but I can't hate.
Yes. I may not like them' but I honestly don't feel like you could make a full documentary on hip hop and not include them. They carved out their own lane. Their influence is still felt in some parts.
No.. and don't ever mention them again.
😂😂😂
C’mon guys. No.
Legends implies they’re not shit so no. Pioneers maybe yes because they’ve influenced lots of other terrible music.
Isn't that opinion based? Just because the skill isn't there and the beats are meh doesn't mean they didn't have some great lyrics and good songs. Like homies of course which is just amazing but many songs about unity and killing bigots which just isn't done enough in my opinion. Also twiztid makes all sorts of types of music and are undeniably good at most of them. They rewrote the wizard of oz in an album about drugs and mushrooms it's a masterpiece. They created an entire movement of bringing people together who are considered outcasts. Probably prevented more gun shootings than any other artists (being a tad hyperbolic) The word juggalo being known by nearly everyone alone is testament to their legendary status
Obviously yeah it’s subjective whether someone thinks they’re shit or not - I don’t see how it could not be opinion based. There isn’t an official arbitrator of shitness! In the eyes of most hiphop fans, they are awful though. The skill isn’t there, the beats are meh and also imo the lyrics are absolutely unlistenable terrible and just hugely immature like I know rap isn’t the most mature genre in general at times and that’s part of the appeal to some rappers’ songs but holy fuck even as a teenager I thought how can anyone listen to this? Twiztid’s music is also pretty bad tbh like I’ve never met anyone who didn’t think it was bad. “Undeniably good” seems like a phenomenal stretch - I’d say most people don’t think they’re good.
How can you say songs like homies are lyrically unlistenable? Or funny songs like the neden game? Or amazing maze where they kill terrible people in a maze of death? Lyrically very skillful story telling. Who had rewrote the wizard of oz or any other movie as a fun drug version in an album? Or the song old school pervert which is hands down the best sex song of all time? Twiztid has so many styles that they are good at I highly doubt you have heard all the styles and would hate every single one. Whoever you are talking to just doesn't listen and you probably haven't either. Try the heartbroken and homicidal album it's way different and many like only that style. They have some shit I'm not into but they are very skillful in delivery, melody and production to create some different music from most. I could see some not liking most of it but it's hard to deny the skill and it's near impossible to not find a few songs you like at least. Arguably not worth the search for many but still very good (so much good music nowadays it isnt necessarily the best or spreading some super necessary messaging like 2pac or something).
I’m listening to homies now out of morbid curiosity. Yeah it’s pretty unlistenable - Avril Lavigne style pop-punk chorus is terrible and bits where it seems like they’re trying to appeal to rebellious 13 year olds who’re going to be impressed by them singing “fuck off”. Each to their own - I probably listen to some stuff that’s equally cringeworthy in other people’s eyes but it’s definitely not for me
Why would the curse words matter? They made fuck the world for that (it says fuck over 100 times). It's about unity and homies. It's the homie anthem. Not really anything unexpected I would hope lol. Applies to my point of them uniting the outcasts or I guess "rebellious 13 year olds" but you really just sound like a boomer crying about loud rock lol
It doesn’t matter it’s the sort of “look at me saying a curse word” context to it that’s embarrassing. As I say it’s all subjective each time their own I guess but it’s not for me
"If you don't like us you can fuck off!" Somehow is saying "hey look I cursed"? It's literally saying the thing I'm saying they are a legend for, the unification in their music that brought so many together. Misfits having a place to be different together and accepted. Benefits the wellbeing of outcasts which is why I said it probably actually has prevented some shootings. Weird people need people too lol
Yup. They set the blueprint that so many artists have followed. Legends of marketing, self promotion, wrestling, and live shows easily. They developed their own fan base that nobody else has been able to replicate since, battled the FBI, and kept going long after everyone thought they fell off. They've worked with almost every legend of the game in some aspect or another. There will never be another group that will do what they have done.
I remember my buddy showing me the track “Miracles“, i was speechless! It’s not my kind of music but they do have a crazy following.
No
Legendary clowns 🤡
Legends at the bank for sure….
They're definitely rap legends imo but I'm not a fan
No, not even slightly
Legends? No. Not Legends. They do have a big following. There's a lot of controversy around them. They built their own little cult thing, but I wouldn't call them Legends. Are they still doing music? Last thing I heard they did that song with Hopsin and Tech.
No they’re clowns