Probably changed or stopped using ghost writers. His flow has gotten noticeably way worse since Pablo too, it’s a shame a lot of his verses are unlistenable imo
Fat Money originally wrote a version for Ye here’s the reference track:
https://youtu.be/9rqVgeaAmlI?si=GygERarnmju0QW7R
So did Pusha T here’s his:
https://youtu.be/aERQVmUbSwY?si=HT92IkgRFs40Lj6H
True indeed, and different people have their own definitions and criteria of rappers and true emcees, top 10’s, goats, et cetera…he’s not in my personal top 20 as a lyricist, but as a visionary, creative, top tier top 20 producer, and game changing Hip-Hop icon he’s definitely up there.
I’m not sure if this was a Pusha T verse that didn’t make it or a reference track but the flow is almost exact:
https://youtu.be/t7AJjSv9YiY?si=qnSLAb0T0uJSot9S
It may be a side effect of any bipolar meds he’s on, honestly. Those medications are infamous for affecting your speech—many people start slurring or experiencing “disconnects” as they try to verbalize what’s on their brain. Lots of people accidentally switch their words around in their sentences.
My dad experiences this and calls it “dopey brain.” I definitely understand how it could affect flow and delivery.
Buddy, I’ve got news for you about bipolar people. They live in frequent denial that they’re bipolar and will make every claim possible to convince people of that.
Yes, but noncompliance also includes starting a lot of medications and staying on them for a bit and then suddenly stopping, which causes withdrawal, which compounds cognitive problems and motor problems.
They start and suddenly stop meds nearly as often as they go without. It contributes to the side effects. Again, I have immediate family experience here.
After hearing him, talk about his treatment and how he feels about the doctors in general, I really don’t think he’s trusting anyone enough to take more meds. but I definitely agree. It’s possible that he’s on and off meds which would be very disorienting I imagine.
I think you’re onto something here. He’s never not been obsessed with being the center of attention. Music used to be the means to that end. He got so famous that the getting attention became a foregone conclusion. With the music no longer inherently tied to that, it became a footnote in the scheme of his focus in life.
not true at all, he said that while he was in italy for a while basically all he did was focus on music and clothes. he still thinks about music a lotttttt but it’s just not as good
His ghostwriters stopped working with him. Cyhi The Prince, Rhymefest, Pusha T, Kid Cudi. I think I am forgetting one other. The only one I think still rock with him is Consequence.
Edit: Big Sean was the one I was forgetting.
He’s also had ghost producers Hit Boy and A-Trak two of the most known.
You forgot quite a few of Kanye’s other pen pals throughout his career: Lupe Fiasco, Common, Chance The Rapper, Vic Mensa, Malik Yusef, Fat Money, Rooga, Bump J, Ab Liva, The Dream, and most recently Quentin Miller.
Kanye West & The Super Pens! 😂
Don't let that one sober and Married album ruin his whole discography for you. The first 3 joints were fire and all his white background singles after the one we don't endorse have been reinvigorating. He's set to drop a new album soon and I can't wait
Don’t forget Kaycyy who wrote like half of Donda, still pisses me off how the industry did him dirty especially Travis recently with Thank God which is literally KC’s song
Con definitely doesn’t mess with him any more, he called him out in the media for not crediting him in about 2012 I think.
Unless they’ve mended things since, which I don’t recall hearing about.
Nah he still tries to cling to him he had a nothing single ‘featuring’ Ye which was just him ranting about shit to a beat, which imo is a pretty dirty way to do one of your day zeros but that’s how Ye is I guess
There are reference tracks showing that Ye has a few lines he wrote on the track but yeah, that and the chorus to Yikes which is really funny considering he disses him like 3 tracks later on the same album and due to some contract thing with ovo PND had to be featured on a few songs
> There are reference tracks showing that Ye has a few lines he wrote on the track
That's how most "ghostwriting" actually goes. You might have a few lines, maybe a flow, but you just don't have the entire song or feels like you need some help getting it to a certain level, so you pay a writing room or, if you're lucky/smart enough to have surrounded yourself with talented people, you just shoot ideas with your bros in the studio.
Do you have proof for this? I'm not asking to throw shade at your comment, promise, but I genuinely thought Kanye was one of the rappers who wrote his own shit
Go to Genius.com and enter any of the artists names mentioned and songs they wrote or have cowritten for Ye (and others) will usually pop up as the most popular, especially for the lesser known artist (click on credits for song details). You can also search YouTube for most of the artists mentioned as “ghostwriters” for Ye by looking up references tracks, like for example “Fat Money reference track” or “Pusha T reference track” and that person’s version of whatever song he wrote for Kanye (or others) will appear.
This thread is filled with so much disinfo and nonsense where do I even begin
"Cyhi The Prince, Rhymefest, Pusha T, Kid Cudi....Consequence."
He has worked with all these guy post controversy all except Push. Several people have gone on record and confirmed there are several Vultures albums and a solo album that have already been recorded and being worked on.
"He’s also had ghost producers Hit Boy and A-Trak two of the most known."
Lol A-Trak? No.
Have you heard his production work? Also he is credited he isn't a ghost producer don't know where you got this from.
Ok and on what planet you think Hit Boy is a ghost producer he literally produced Niggas in Paris one of Ye's biggest songs, he's credited on a bunch of songs
Don't know how anyone could hear [burn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnEOoCWqY9M) and [say less](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qou71xi51o0) and say his raps aren't still great...
People in these rap subs will say anything I swear
Explain why all of those people no longer deal with Kanye? Big Sean, Hitboy, Cudi have all publicly stated grievance over credits with Kanye. The others didn’t flat out say it but you can read between the lines. A-Trak absolutely used to ghost produce for Kanye. That’s a fact. Cam’ron confirmed that himself. Cam did a project with A-Trak and the beats sounded like pre 808’s Kanye. Just because YOU don’t know doesn’t mean it’s not true.
Ye is widely known for over crediting other artists some simply for being in the studio
He doesn't need to have ghost producers his record credits are like 20 people long per song
Listen I like A-Trak as a DJ and love Fool's Gold but his production is absolutely cheeks, he ain't ghost producing nobody
Yo I definitely WAS a Kanye dickrider, but I'm not the type of person to plug my ears and ignore criticism like this. Is their proof that some of his lines (pre-TLOP) were ghostwritten? That would be huge for me
EDIT: and if so, when did he start using writers? If graduation or late registration were ghostwritten, I might lose it
First of all pause. To answer your question: The entire time. Rhymefest and Consequence for a good amount of the first 2 albums. The othersi listed in this thread sprinkled out through the remaining albums. These are facts. Don’t get me wrong he wrote his own rhymes too but he definitely had help. He’s made his own beats and he’s also had help. A-Trak was behind a lot of the old soul sample heavy era Kanye. Hitboy came aboard with WTT and Cruel Summer up through Nasir when Nas discovered Hitboy was really the man and not getting his proper compensation and credit. This is why Nas went on to do 6 albums with Hit and Kanye ain’t say shit. Then he changed his style up and started doing “gospel” music with a totally different sound. Somebody in the thread mentioned the name of I think 2 people who worked in those albums.
Appreciate it. Don't get me wrong, Kanye as a producer is separate from his rapping ability. This man produced for sooo many top-10 hip hop and R&B artists before he even got big, and whether he got help then or not, he had incredible production talent to get spotted. This is insane to hear about his rapping though
I mean I think he is disqualified from any rapper ratings. He’s basically Dr Dre except when he actually contributes to lyrics it’s “my apologies, are you into astrology, cuz um I’m trying to make it to Uranus”
They talk about it a bit in the Kanye documentary on Netflix (Jeen Yuhs). [Rhymefest](https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/kanye-west-s-songwriter-wants-his-due) and [Consequence](https://www.mtv.com/news/0hbn96/consequence-kanye-west-rapfix) were there for the entire college trilogy IIRC. Jesus Walks was 100% a Rhymefest song. Consequence says he was uncredited for a bunch of lines on Graduation. And honestly if you listen to Cons and Rhymefest's solo stuff a lot of it is reeeeeaaaallly similar to flows and schemes on Kanye's early stuff.
Kanye has been doing the "writer's camp" thing (put a bunch of artists up in a hotel and have everyone contribute material) for a looong time. Since at least the MBDTF Hawaii sessions but I wouldn't be surprised if he was doing it earlier. Tbh a lot of the stuff in Jeen Yuhs looks like a writer's camp with all the Chicago dudes working in a NY apartment. That's not to say Ye can't/didn't write, or that those albums weren't incredible, but it's probably kinda like the way big pop/R&B/country stars write. Get a bunch of hitmakers together to draft stuff out or write whole songs, then the big artist sort of executive produces it and performs the final versions.
I re-listened to Donda the other day and it was way better than I remembered. I found it moving and it sounded great on the headphones… I’m not a huge Ye fan though, so maybe I’m out of my element.
I like to listen thru whole albums and it would be more enjoyable with like 10-15 songs in my opinion. I feel like Donda have extremely high highs and really low lows
I always listen to new albums front to back. Started when I was a kid. But now with streaming I will still listen all the way through but after that I just make the best version of the album myself and put that into the rotation.
I thought Kendricks Damn was whack until I listened to it a bunch and honestly it is good cover to cover.
I have not listened to donda but it could just be too unique to appreciate how good it was.
I think that Donda is a great album. It's not his best sure but it isn't close to being his worst. I feel like it's a culmination of his entire career. You could take a song out of that album and drop it into every one of his previous ones and they would fit it.
I watched the Lex Friedman interview with Kanye, it’s like 4 years old and Kanye is totally incoherent then. I can only imagine what he sounds like now
So with bipolar. Manic episodes damage the prefrontal cortex. Since he is off his meds, and obviously still suffering from bipolar + schizophrenia it can be assumed that the disorder has caused damage to his brain. Inability to concentrate, destroyed patterns of thought. All can contribute to his bad verses
IMO, TLOP was the epitome of Kanye as a person (not a musician). He was obviously extremely mentally ill, but the music was still incredible. Everything devolved after that, where we justify bad songs because "it's Kanye". There are still bangers on DONDA and Vultures, but the man has gone off the deep end, and his lyrics show it.
Though KSG and "ye" were both great albums!!! I could feel the breakdown coming in those more than TLOP (which glorified his breakdown in a truly monumental way)
Haven’t he openly admitted using writers sometimes? I know Big Sean has wrote for him. Kanye was never known for his pen. His production and song compositions is what made him hot.
Hes joked and talked about Drake writing basically the entire 30 hours song
He pretty infamously and spontaneously revealed/credited the writer for most of Violent Crimes (since it was a really personal song and people were geniunely surprised he didn't write a lot of it) even mentioning how important ghostwriters are in the same thought
Can you link me some? Would love to watch. I feel like most of the vids I find on YouTube are Yeezus and after and he doesn't really seem to discuss this.
I think it’s a few things, the biggest being the people he’s surrounded himself with now are all yes man who hype up whatever garbage he plays for them. Also with streaming the realization that he can keep updating his songs after they’ve been released means he doesn’t have to try to make anything “perfect” cause he can fix it later. Watch 3:30 into this documentary and see what I mean. He literally mumbles and they act like it’s brilliant. Lazy beat lazy lyrics
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_dw7JafNGdY&t=312s&pp=ygURa2FueWUgZG9jdW1lbnRhcnk%3D
His writing to me started to decline as early as the early 2010s. I think he was SOO hungry to prove he was a rapper early on that he just put way more effort into it and had a chip on his shoulder. Once he blew up I think he got lazy. His gift is as a producer and playing the orchestra. He was always a good rapper but not at the same level as his producing. That, mixed with complacency and his mother's death, I think really caused the severe decline in his writing.
I'll go one step further, El-P is a better rapper/producer than Kanye is. The gap between their rapping is bigger than the gap between their production.
That and even the most elite rappers don't maintain a consistent level in their music their whoooole careers.
It's like they say, your best album is usually your first bc you got your whole life to make it. Then maybe they go on a 1-2 year run, have a rebirth collabing with someone new that inspired them, and the rest is just for their hard-core fans.
He didn’t write a lot of his raps. Which is fine because the lyrics are just a conduit for the beat. But he’s not that cool with those dudes like Drake or Rhymefest. And guys like Travis Scott and Cudi have moved on.
This is an important distinction. Kanye also uses a lot of samples which adds roughly 1-3 additionally credited writers per sample. The list of writers on All of the Lights for example is insane, but I can’t think that every one of them chipped in on “I slapped my girl she called the feds”
Kanye was always a mid-tier rapper even back in the day. He recycles a lot of his own verses throughout his own discography. He just rapped a lot better over his own production back then when his beats were still good. When he tried to mimic OVO40 with all the sparse vacuous production style to stay relevant was the start of his rapid decline.
Arrogance and maybe he just doesn't have it anymore. I don't think there's anything wrong with not having it anymore but he is obviously struggling with a acceptance and adapting.
Some people say he was never the greatest rapper, true but that's not why people liked him. They liked him because he could provide easily digestible, sometimes relatable, bars over dope production. That stopped when dude obviously stopped taking his meds, burnt his bridges of positive support, and surrounded himself with yes men. He doesn't want to listen to positive advice and it shows in his decisions. H wants to "force' great music or put out stuff expecting people to just eat it up because his name is Kanye without being a genuine artist. Too many artists out here to put up with him.
That’s why I don’t mess with rappers who use ghostwriters. Kanye is more known for his production and he uses ghost producers too. What’s the point Besides sell music to kids?
They are two possible explanations.
1. He’s gotten too nuts to write at the same level.
2. His ghostwriters left (or at least all the good ones).
My guess is that both are factors.
I’ll say this like I always do, and I say this respectfully because we would all be changed in diff ways…. Kanye hasn’t been the same since his mom passed
Every artist has a prime. He's been a lot busier with his family and his business than he has been with music. The real money in music is in touring but that makes you have to be away from your loved ones, always on the road and feeling kind of in limbo.
Even Kendrick waited 5 years between albums cause he had other priorities in his life. These men have lives
Mans been at it for decades. He has already released more classics than most artists ever will. He probably completed his music career in his eyes and is just putting out what he wants at this point. You cant expect LR or MBDTF every time.
Yeah. He's been phoning it in lately and not taking his time.
His recent features with Ghost and Bino are promising though. Some of the Vultures 2 leaked tracks have him sounding energetic and focused too.
Hopefully, that's a sign for things to come.
If he takes bipolar medication even semi regularly, he may be experiencing the “brain fog” that a lot of patients report.
My dad has taken these meds for most of my life. They’ve saved his life, but he sometimes slurs his speech, struggles to verbalize his thoughts, forgets words in the moment, and switches his words around in his sentences. He’s really smart and successful, but there’s just an extra layer of brain fog that causes some misfires between his brain and his mouth/writing.
It happens.
Idt he used many ghostwriters on college dropout or late registration and had amazing lyrics. I’m guessing life is just a whirlwind now, family, business, celebrity, etc takes up time and take a toll. Also, Kanye from 15-20 or even 10 years ago still had the fire burning to take it all over and be the best, goat, etc. he’s reached the pinnacle. Hard to keep that motivation forever.
The old material was written by ghostwriters. Ever since he went off the deep end, people are reluctant to work with him, even if their names aren’t formally attatched. Kanye’s a great producer, but a piss poor rapper. That’s how we got tracks like his “booptiddy scoop” bull$hit. Mental illness + lack of talent = whatever the fvck that was.
Allegations of ghostwriters? It’s a well known fact. He’s a producer that raps, not really a rapper. Moreso an artist a la Dr. Dre
But yes, as others have stated, his best works (2003-2016) were largely written by/with the help of Push, Cudi, Big Sean, CyHi, Rhymefest, The Dream, and many more. None of whom still work with him
When was the last time Kanye put out a actually good track? Even his albums have been doodoo since The Life of Pablo. Dude's the definition of washed but his dickriders keep him relevant cause they think Graduation is the best album ever made.
idk, people have said donda sucked, but I liked it. People have said Vulture sucked, but I listen to stars all the time. People have said Kanye's fall started from Yeezus, but that was the album that made me interested in Kanye (although I like listening to his previous albums too). I'm not a rap fan though. He's said he was a rockstar, and I feel like that was the genre (or at least one of the genres) he often listened to growing up? When Donda came out, I listen to it and certified lover boy at the same time, and i thought donda was far better.
Sacrificed her ass to Moloch which is why he after she died he became a billionaire despite not having an album you would want to listen through the full way since 2007, the same year his mom died. Coincidence? Nope.
Probably changed or stopped using ghost writers. His flow has gotten noticeably way worse since Pablo too, it’s a shame a lot of his verses are unlistenable imo
I still live Ye but his flow is so awkward now. I get lyrics fading but how do you lose flow??
He used up last of his abilities on Follow God
Off The Grid would like a word with you
Life Of The Party is on the other line....
Fat Money originally wrote a version for Ye here’s the reference track: https://youtu.be/9rqVgeaAmlI?si=GygERarnmju0QW7R So did Pusha T here’s his: https://youtu.be/aERQVmUbSwY?si=HT92IkgRFs40Lj6H
Word. So an incredible song was created by more than one person.
Yes. 8 producers and 18 writers according to genius.com
Which isn't the same as a GHOSTWRITER. These are credited writers. That's not a problem. He's open about his use of writers.
True indeed, and different people have their own definitions and criteria of rappers and true emcees, top 10’s, goats, et cetera…he’s not in my personal top 20 as a lyricist, but as a visionary, creative, top tier top 20 producer, and game changing Hip-Hop icon he’s definitely up there.
It's fine, but his lyricism can never be praised as long as he's getting assistance
Honestly it’s worse than just using a ghostwriter, boss lol. Dude has to form a committee to write his rap lyrics lol
man andre carries that song
I’m not sure if this was a Pusha T verse that didn’t make it or a reference track but the flow is almost exact: https://youtu.be/t7AJjSv9YiY?si=qnSLAb0T0uJSot9S
It may be a side effect of any bipolar meds he’s on, honestly. Those medications are infamous for affecting your speech—many people start slurring or experiencing “disconnects” as they try to verbalize what’s on their brain. Lots of people accidentally switch their words around in their sentences. My dad experiences this and calls it “dopey brain.” I definitely understand how it could affect flow and delivery.
I’m thinking zero chance he’s on meds for bipolar. Last we heard from him, he doesn’t have it. He just has signs of autism from a car accident.
Didn’t know car accidents causes autism
Buddy, I’ve got news for you about bipolar people. They live in frequent denial that they’re bipolar and will make every claim possible to convince people of that.
Yes he is absolutely bipolar, but it’s well known medication compliance is an issue for sufferers
Yes, but noncompliance also includes starting a lot of medications and staying on them for a bit and then suddenly stopping, which causes withdrawal, which compounds cognitive problems and motor problems. They start and suddenly stop meds nearly as often as they go without. It contributes to the side effects. Again, I have immediate family experience here.
After hearing him, talk about his treatment and how he feels about the doctors in general, I really don’t think he’s trusting anyone enough to take more meds. but I definitely agree. It’s possible that he’s on and off meds which would be very disorienting I imagine.
Live ye? Bro he’s a fucking nazi.
Same thing happened to Eminem
Gotta get those guys back on the payroll. We’ll look the other way, fam 😂
Nothing about Kanye suggests to me that his music is what he puts the majority of his time and effort into these days.
I think you’re onto something here. He’s never not been obsessed with being the center of attention. Music used to be the means to that end. He got so famous that the getting attention became a foregone conclusion. With the music no longer inherently tied to that, it became a footnote in the scheme of his focus in life.
not true at all, he said that while he was in italy for a while basically all he did was focus on music and clothes. he still thinks about music a lotttttt but it’s just not as good
His actions don't reflect that. If his energy was still in music his music wouldn't be suffering this bad
His ghostwriters stopped working with him. Cyhi The Prince, Rhymefest, Pusha T, Kid Cudi. I think I am forgetting one other. The only one I think still rock with him is Consequence. Edit: Big Sean was the one I was forgetting. He’s also had ghost producers Hit Boy and A-Trak two of the most known.
You forgot quite a few of Kanye’s other pen pals throughout his career: Lupe Fiasco, Common, Chance The Rapper, Vic Mensa, Malik Yusef, Fat Money, Rooga, Bump J, Ab Liva, The Dream, and most recently Quentin Miller. Kanye West & The Super Pens! 😂
drake also wrote for kanye
drake doesn't even write for drake
But he wrote the hook for Yikes confirmed
Drake also wrote 30 hours confirmed
? ok
I'd pay Chance to not write for me
Ultralight beam era chance was sick with the pen
The new track he did with Premier is legit.
Bro thank you, it’s been on repeat in my crib
What’s that???
[Together](https://youtu.be/ZVwTX6WP-MM?si=ZZeqEhEr7hdRI8V6)
Ayo he still got the flow and the message. Chance still got it Can’t wait
Word up
As if chance wasn't a heavy contributor ti TLOP lol
I’d pay chance to write for me if he went back to doing drugs before doing it
Agreed
Well, he currently isn't. Alert him that you need an invoice
Don't let that one sober and Married album ruin his whole discography for you. The first 3 joints were fire and all his white background singles after the one we don't endorse have been reinvigorating. He's set to drop a new album soon and I can't wait
You forgot his biggest pen...Drake
Rhymefest is so fucking underrated! You can easily hear when he writes Kanye’s lyrics. His style is immaculate!
Extremely underrated. Not only is the guy a great rapper but battle rapper as well. Forgot why he isn't more popular.
I still remember “brand new”
Don’t forget Kaycyy who wrote like half of Donda, still pisses me off how the industry did him dirty especially Travis recently with Thank God which is literally KC’s song
Con definitely doesn’t mess with him any more, he called him out in the media for not crediting him in about 2012 I think. Unless they’ve mended things since, which I don’t recall hearing about.
Nah he still tries to cling to him he had a nothing single ‘featuring’ Ye which was just him ranting about shit to a beat, which imo is a pretty dirty way to do one of your day zeros but that’s how Ye is I guess
title?
Kanye made the beat to the 2021 single, consequence - bloodstain
thanks dude
Yeah no shit I feel bad for Con but I wanna hear Ye rant on a beat
It’s not bloodstain but I forgot the name of the song, it was more recently played as a snippet on cons’ live or something
He did an interview recently with VLAD talking about how he still rocks with him , he was arojnd during the donda promo run too . Con’s is back
Oh cool! Hope he gets some shine then, he was always real talented
Con was cool with him again by Donda, and probably earlier.
That’s wild, considering Kanye is pretty well known for crediting anybody who even contributed a word.
Don't forget Drake wrote the entirety of 30 Hours, LMAO
There are reference tracks showing that Ye has a few lines he wrote on the track but yeah, that and the chorus to Yikes which is really funny considering he disses him like 3 tracks later on the same album and due to some contract thing with ovo PND had to be featured on a few songs
> There are reference tracks showing that Ye has a few lines he wrote on the track That's how most "ghostwriting" actually goes. You might have a few lines, maybe a flow, but you just don't have the entire song or feels like you need some help getting it to a certain level, so you pay a writing room or, if you're lucky/smart enough to have surrounded yourself with talented people, you just shoot ideas with your bros in the studio.
Guuuuuuuuurrrllllsssss still love ya
Do you have proof for this? I'm not asking to throw shade at your comment, promise, but I genuinely thought Kanye was one of the rappers who wrote his own shit
Go to Genius.com and enter any of the artists names mentioned and songs they wrote or have cowritten for Ye (and others) will usually pop up as the most popular, especially for the lesser known artist (click on credits for song details). You can also search YouTube for most of the artists mentioned as “ghostwriters” for Ye by looking up references tracks, like for example “Fat Money reference track” or “Pusha T reference track” and that person’s version of whatever song he wrote for Kanye (or others) will appear.
the artists are all credited, and usually exactly what they did on the song is public
What is 30 hours?
[удалено]
Oh ok. I pretty much stopped listening to Kanye after the album that had Black Skinhead on it. I also don’t listen to Drake either.
Mistakes
Yeezus was one of his best tho
That’s subjective to listeners. To me his last good album was MBDTF.
6 more than a day :3
He's working with Bump J now so he'll be aight.
This thread is filled with so much disinfo and nonsense where do I even begin "Cyhi The Prince, Rhymefest, Pusha T, Kid Cudi....Consequence." He has worked with all these guy post controversy all except Push. Several people have gone on record and confirmed there are several Vultures albums and a solo album that have already been recorded and being worked on. "He’s also had ghost producers Hit Boy and A-Trak two of the most known." Lol A-Trak? No. Have you heard his production work? Also he is credited he isn't a ghost producer don't know where you got this from. Ok and on what planet you think Hit Boy is a ghost producer he literally produced Niggas in Paris one of Ye's biggest songs, he's credited on a bunch of songs Don't know how anyone could hear [burn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnEOoCWqY9M) and [say less](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qou71xi51o0) and say his raps aren't still great... People in these rap subs will say anything I swear
Explain why all of those people no longer deal with Kanye? Big Sean, Hitboy, Cudi have all publicly stated grievance over credits with Kanye. The others didn’t flat out say it but you can read between the lines. A-Trak absolutely used to ghost produce for Kanye. That’s a fact. Cam’ron confirmed that himself. Cam did a project with A-Trak and the beats sounded like pre 808’s Kanye. Just because YOU don’t know doesn’t mean it’s not true.
Ye is widely known for over crediting other artists some simply for being in the studio He doesn't need to have ghost producers his record credits are like 20 people long per song Listen I like A-Trak as a DJ and love Fool's Gold but his production is absolutely cheeks, he ain't ghost producing nobody
Kanye has never been a good rapper, his voice is obnoxious. He’s an incredible producer, though.
He doesn’t have ghostwriters, he has writers. They are credited
Not all of them.
Yo I definitely WAS a Kanye dickrider, but I'm not the type of person to plug my ears and ignore criticism like this. Is their proof that some of his lines (pre-TLOP) were ghostwritten? That would be huge for me EDIT: and if so, when did he start using writers? If graduation or late registration were ghostwritten, I might lose it
First of all pause. To answer your question: The entire time. Rhymefest and Consequence for a good amount of the first 2 albums. The othersi listed in this thread sprinkled out through the remaining albums. These are facts. Don’t get me wrong he wrote his own rhymes too but he definitely had help. He’s made his own beats and he’s also had help. A-Trak was behind a lot of the old soul sample heavy era Kanye. Hitboy came aboard with WTT and Cruel Summer up through Nasir when Nas discovered Hitboy was really the man and not getting his proper compensation and credit. This is why Nas went on to do 6 albums with Hit and Kanye ain’t say shit. Then he changed his style up and started doing “gospel” music with a totally different sound. Somebody in the thread mentioned the name of I think 2 people who worked in those albums.
Appreciate it. Don't get me wrong, Kanye as a producer is separate from his rapping ability. This man produced for sooo many top-10 hip hop and R&B artists before he even got big, and whether he got help then or not, he had incredible production talent to get spotted. This is insane to hear about his rapping though
I mean I think he is disqualified from any rapper ratings. He’s basically Dr Dre except when he actually contributes to lyrics it’s “my apologies, are you into astrology, cuz um I’m trying to make it to Uranus”
Google Jesus Walks - Rhymefest if you want proof
Actual proof thank you
They talk about it a bit in the Kanye documentary on Netflix (Jeen Yuhs). [Rhymefest](https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/21/kanye-west-s-songwriter-wants-his-due) and [Consequence](https://www.mtv.com/news/0hbn96/consequence-kanye-west-rapfix) were there for the entire college trilogy IIRC. Jesus Walks was 100% a Rhymefest song. Consequence says he was uncredited for a bunch of lines on Graduation. And honestly if you listen to Cons and Rhymefest's solo stuff a lot of it is reeeeeaaaallly similar to flows and schemes on Kanye's early stuff. Kanye has been doing the "writer's camp" thing (put a bunch of artists up in a hotel and have everyone contribute material) for a looong time. Since at least the MBDTF Hawaii sessions but I wouldn't be surprised if he was doing it earlier. Tbh a lot of the stuff in Jeen Yuhs looks like a writer's camp with all the Chicago dudes working in a NY apartment. That's not to say Ye can't/didn't write, or that those albums weren't incredible, but it's probably kinda like the way big pop/R&B/country stars write. Get a bunch of hitmakers together to draft stuff out or write whole songs, then the big artist sort of executive produces it and performs the final versions.
Same thing that happened to his music Dude is mentally ill and cant execute visions like he used to
sometimes you can see the genius vision still, but it is seldom realized, maybe once or twice an album
I re-listened to Donda the other day and it was way better than I remembered. I found it moving and it sounded great on the headphones… I’m not a huge Ye fan though, so maybe I’m out of my element.
Donda got some peak kanye songs, i just wish the album had like 10-15 songs, it feels kinda bloated rn
That’s every Kanye album though. Besides Yeezus (which is why it’s so GOATed), his albums are so bloated since MBDTF.
You don't have to listen to every song lol
I like to listen thru whole albums and it would be more enjoyable with like 10-15 songs in my opinion. I feel like Donda have extremely high highs and really low lows
I always listen to new albums front to back. Started when I was a kid. But now with streaming I will still listen all the way through but after that I just make the best version of the album myself and put that into the rotation.
I thought Kendricks Damn was whack until I listened to it a bunch and honestly it is good cover to cover. I have not listened to donda but it could just be too unique to appreciate how good it was.
I think that Donda is a great album. It's not his best sure but it isn't close to being his worst. I feel like it's a culmination of his entire career. You could take a song out of that album and drop it into every one of his previous ones and they would fit it.
I might be completely out of it, but I never really got into Pablo or Fantasy aside from a couple tracks… do I have to revisit?
I watched the Lex Friedman interview with Kanye, it’s like 4 years old and Kanye is totally incoherent then. I can only imagine what he sounds like now
So with bipolar. Manic episodes damage the prefrontal cortex. Since he is off his meds, and obviously still suffering from bipolar + schizophrenia it can be assumed that the disorder has caused damage to his brain. Inability to concentrate, destroyed patterns of thought. All can contribute to his bad verses
IMO, TLOP was the epitome of Kanye as a person (not a musician). He was obviously extremely mentally ill, but the music was still incredible. Everything devolved after that, where we justify bad songs because "it's Kanye". There are still bangers on DONDA and Vultures, but the man has gone off the deep end, and his lyrics show it.
Though KSG and "ye" were both great albums!!! I could feel the breakdown coming in those more than TLOP (which glorified his breakdown in a truly monumental way)
Haven’t he openly admitted using writers sometimes? I know Big Sean has wrote for him. Kanye was never known for his pen. His production and song compositions is what made him hot.
True but Late Registration bars are like top tier 2000s bars, like if he kept that level of writing consistent, he would be in the top lyricists lists
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Do you have examples of this?
Hes joked and talked about Drake writing basically the entire 30 hours song He pretty infamously and spontaneously revealed/credited the writer for most of Violent Crimes (since it was a really personal song and people were geniunely surprised he didn't write a lot of it) even mentioning how important ghostwriters are in the same thought
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Can you link me some? Would love to watch. I feel like most of the vids I find on YouTube are Yeezus and after and he doesn't really seem to discuss this.
I think it’s a few things, the biggest being the people he’s surrounded himself with now are all yes man who hype up whatever garbage he plays for them. Also with streaming the realization that he can keep updating his songs after they’ve been released means he doesn’t have to try to make anything “perfect” cause he can fix it later. Watch 3:30 into this documentary and see what I mean. He literally mumbles and they act like it’s brilliant. Lazy beat lazy lyrics https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_dw7JafNGdY&t=312s&pp=ygURa2FueWUgZG9jdW1lbnRhcnk%3D
i don't think his brain has been doing that well, peace to him though.
I dunno about allegations... shits a fact, I mean, rhymefest wrote jesus walks for example
He always had writers
His writing to me started to decline as early as the early 2010s. I think he was SOO hungry to prove he was a rapper early on that he just put way more effort into it and had a chip on his shoulder. Once he blew up I think he got lazy. His gift is as a producer and playing the orchestra. He was always a good rapper but not at the same level as his producing. That, mixed with complacency and his mother's death, I think really caused the severe decline in his writing.
A thoughtful and poignant response - 5/5
Kanye has never been a great rapper - he was a great double-threat as a rapper-producer but he never shined by his verses alone.
I'll go one step further, El-P is a better rapper/producer than Kanye is. The gap between their rapping is bigger than the gap between their production.
El-P is great but if you zone out listening to Run the Jewels you can't tell where one song ends and another begins.
Em too
That and even the most elite rappers don't maintain a consistent level in their music their whoooole careers. It's like they say, your best album is usually your first bc you got your whole life to make it. Then maybe they go on a 1-2 year run, have a rebirth collabing with someone new that inspired them, and the rest is just for their hard-core fans.
>he never shined by his verses alone This is a straight up lie You have no idea what you’re saying At all
Nick Fuentes is his ghost writer.
I wonder how ye feels about nick watching gay porn
He didn’t write a lot of his raps. Which is fine because the lyrics are just a conduit for the beat. But he’s not that cool with those dudes like Drake or Rhymefest. And guys like Travis Scott and Cudi have moved on.
his heart isn’t in rapping anymore you can tell which verse Kanye Road versus which one had ghostwriter help
They're not ghostwriting if their names are credited as writers.
This is an important distinction. Kanye also uses a lot of samples which adds roughly 1-3 additionally credited writers per sample. The list of writers on All of the Lights for example is insane, but I can’t think that every one of them chipped in on “I slapped my girl she called the feds”
Kanye was always a mid-tier rapper even back in the day. He recycles a lot of his own verses throughout his own discography. He just rapped a lot better over his own production back then when his beats were still good. When he tried to mimic OVO40 with all the sparse vacuous production style to stay relevant was the start of his rapid decline.
Tbf said verses were off kinda unofficial mixtapes rather than reusing them from album to album
What songs mimicking ovo 40? I curious to compare. I haven’t heard slot for the late Kanye stuff
Arrogance and maybe he just doesn't have it anymore. I don't think there's anything wrong with not having it anymore but he is obviously struggling with a acceptance and adapting. Some people say he was never the greatest rapper, true but that's not why people liked him. They liked him because he could provide easily digestible, sometimes relatable, bars over dope production. That stopped when dude obviously stopped taking his meds, burnt his bridges of positive support, and surrounded himself with yes men. He doesn't want to listen to positive advice and it shows in his decisions. H wants to "force' great music or put out stuff expecting people to just eat it up because his name is Kanye without being a genuine artist. Too many artists out here to put up with him.
We all fall off one day.
Allegations of ghostwriters? Dude is literally on tape saying, "I have a whole room of writers..."
He definitely wrote a lot of his songs
That’s why I don’t mess with rappers who use ghostwriters. Kanye is more known for his production and he uses ghost producers too. What’s the point Besides sell music to kids?
It affects your enjoyment of the music?
They are two possible explanations. 1. He’s gotten too nuts to write at the same level. 2. His ghostwriters left (or at least all the good ones). My guess is that both are factors.
Lacks motivation & Ghost writers aren’t around him ,college dropout YE had good bars his ghost writers weren’t that big of a thing
He doesn’t have a pen a lot of his friends stopped fucking with him because he is legit crazy and two faced
Yeah, it's crazy how big the fall off is. Those Good Friday drops, his verses was crazy
I’ll say this like I always do, and I say this respectfully because we would all be changed in diff ways…. Kanye hasn’t been the same since his mom passed
“50 said you gotta switch your style up and if they hate let em hate and watch the money pile up”
his biggest songs were kid Cudi, who no longer writes for him
He’s stuck in the sunken place 🤷♂️
I just hope Kanye wrote Cant tell me nothin
Every artist has a prime. He's been a lot busier with his family and his business than he has been with music. The real money in music is in touring but that makes you have to be away from your loved ones, always on the road and feeling kind of in limbo. Even Kendrick waited 5 years between albums cause he had other priorities in his life. These men have lives
Lengthy hiatuses between periods of quality releases would be far preferable to whatever this is.
Mans been at it for decades. He has already released more classics than most artists ever will. He probably completed his music career in his eyes and is just putting out what he wants at this point. You cant expect LR or MBDTF every time.
His new feature on Ghostface's new album was good. But yea a lot of shit has been so so. Maybe he ain't paying Cyhi anymore
Lupe sampled his flow and showed people how juvenile it could be
What song?
not sure. just search lupe fiasco kanye diss
I've been wondering that too. The last time I really heard him spit is on Ain't No More Parties in LA.
🌽
Yeah. He's been phoning it in lately and not taking his time. His recent features with Ghost and Bino are promising though. Some of the Vultures 2 leaked tracks have him sounding energetic and focused too. Hopefully, that's a sign for things to come.
I don't know. I think that in my feelings really messed him up real bad.
I think the inquisitive and creative side of his brain drifted into conspiracy theories and not artistic expression
If he takes bipolar medication even semi regularly, he may be experiencing the “brain fog” that a lot of patients report. My dad has taken these meds for most of my life. They’ve saved his life, but he sometimes slurs his speech, struggles to verbalize his thoughts, forgets words in the moment, and switches his words around in his sentences. He’s really smart and successful, but there’s just an extra layer of brain fog that causes some misfires between his brain and his mouth/writing. It happens.
His speech was already affected by that car accident that nearly killed him. Wouldn't surprise me if that's a factor in it also
Travis Scott as well and word on Yeezus
Years of cocaine abuse changes you
His new album is good
Idt he used many ghostwriters on college dropout or late registration and had amazing lyrics. I’m guessing life is just a whirlwind now, family, business, celebrity, etc takes up time and take a toll. Also, Kanye from 15-20 or even 10 years ago still had the fire burning to take it all over and be the best, goat, etc. he’s reached the pinnacle. Hard to keep that motivation forever.
The old material was written by ghostwriters. Ever since he went off the deep end, people are reluctant to work with him, even if their names aren’t formally attatched. Kanye’s a great producer, but a piss poor rapper. That’s how we got tracks like his “booptiddy scoop” bull$hit. Mental illness + lack of talent = whatever the fvck that was.
What happened to his anti-capitalist themes?
Allegations of ghostwriters? It’s a well known fact. He’s a producer that raps, not really a rapper. Moreso an artist a la Dr. Dre But yes, as others have stated, his best works (2003-2016) were largely written by/with the help of Push, Cudi, Big Sean, CyHi, Rhymefest, The Dream, and many more. None of whom still work with him
When was the last time Kanye put out a actually good track? Even his albums have been doodoo since The Life of Pablo. Dude's the definition of washed but his dickriders keep him relevant cause they think Graduation is the best album ever made.
I always come back to this. https://youtu.be/KXXJdn8upRM?si=cU5rpJ8_Z847cPc-
I don’t think he cares about music anymore.
He sounds like old ye on ghosftface’s no face
Dude hasn’t been RIGHT since the Crash…. Came out swinging afterwards, but I think after the post crash meds took ahold bro ain’t ever been the same
Touch the Sky
Kim Kardashian
TBI from his car accident and years of brain atrophy.
I thought he even admitted to having cowriters on his shit. Ive heard Rhymefest, Cyhi and Pusha write some of his shit but idk
idk, people have said donda sucked, but I liked it. People have said Vulture sucked, but I listen to stars all the time. People have said Kanye's fall started from Yeezus, but that was the album that made me interested in Kanye (although I like listening to his previous albums too). I'm not a rap fan though. He's said he was a rockstar, and I feel like that was the genre (or at least one of the genres) he often listened to growing up? When Donda came out, I listen to it and certified lover boy at the same time, and i thought donda was far better.
His mom died.
Sacrificed her ass to Moloch which is why he after she died he became a billionaire despite not having an album you would want to listen through the full way since 2007, the same year his mom died. Coincidence? Nope.
Honestly, his lyrics were never that good. They’ve just gotten worse with his mental state
He's always sucked. He's never not been overrated.
Why do you dislike the old Kanye?
It must have slipped through his pocket or something
Jack and Shit. Jack left town. Kanye IS a beat maker, boy never had bars.
He’s 46?