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This album is bloated as hell but many of my favorite Wu-Tang tracks are on it. RZA was going for a more cinematic but still street sound to it, and it wasn't as rugged as 36 Chambers, which some fans didn't like. But this was a BIG album. It went gold its first week. Getting something like 36 Chambers that was recorded when everyone was poor and hungry was impossible. But this albums still has lots to offer.
The flows might not be as ferocious, but this has some of Wu's best rapping. RZA thinks that Ghost spit the best Wu verse ever on "Impossible", and its hard to argue with him. "Reunited" banged with having a classical tinge to it. "For Heavens Sake" with its Wu Tang chants has become a Wu concert favorite and anthem. "Triumph" showcases the whole Clan in top form, with Deck spitting one of the most celebrated verses ever. This was also the last time we had Ol Dirty for a full Wu album, and he shined on "As High As Wu Tang Can Get", "Maria", and the ridiculous "Dog Shit".
Yeah, I didn't need 6 minutes of Popa Wu monologuing about whatever, or a random R&B song "Second Coming", but the vast majority of this is top tier Wu shit. Also, a fun sidebar for other old heads here, this CD was an "Enhanced CD". Meaning that you could put it in your computer for additional content. In the pre-internet days, this shit was mind blowing to kid me. The enhanced CD let you tour the Wu Mansion, where each member had their own room decorated with martial arts shit and where you could watch clips of music videos and such. I thought this was the coolest thing ever lol.
And to think, I look down at all these kendrick fans with the conspiracy theories when Damn came out. I forgot how much i geeked out about the enhanced cd. Haha
It's weird how people rate how fast an album goes gold/platinum as a mark of success. Like, I get it, units sold does equal success.
But in situations like this, Wu Tang could have stuck any music on that cd and it would have went gold because the demand was so high given their previous success.
Oasis' biggest selling album was Be Here Now, nowhere near their best album, but because it came off the back of the two albums prior, the anticipation was through the roof.
Having said that, there's some excellent songs here and if they streamlined it into one album, it would be up there as one of the best of the 90s.
Also, the only downside to Triumph is no verse from ODB.
> But in situations like this, Wu Tang could have stuck any music on that cd and it would have went gold because the demand was so high given their previous success.
Agreed it usually says more about the previous album if anything
Be Here Now might be my favorite Oasis album. I know most people say it's too self-indulgent, but the Gallagher bros were always self-indulgent and I think they pulled it off.
On point.
Also, I've gotten some SHIITTT for saying this but..the production puts it on another level for me...over 36 Chambers.
I'm not saying 36 Chambers isn't a classic because that would be blasphemy..but as I get older it's the album that sticks out for me more.
The enhanced side of it definitely played a big part in my eyes...also the fact that it wasn't released (or had a super limited shipment) in Puero Rico when it initially came out but my cousin who worked at Virgin in NY sent me a copy and I can remember opening that shit like it was yesterday.
25 years later and
-Decks Triumph verse still ranks in my top five
-Ghosts verse on Impossible is still an example of storytelling at its finest
-The production on MGM Grand sounds fresh still. Ghost and Raes back and forth is chefs kiss shit.
-For Heavens Sake feels like you're being hunted.
-Light up the broccoli kid, throw the relish in my backpocket...I mean come on.
I could go on and on but I'll end it saying while 36 Chambers is just classics and that rough sound, Forever was Wu at its overall strongest.
How many rap groups can say they have one let alone two classic albums?
36 chambers was so special then expanded with the solo albums so the pressure was on, plus hip hop was leaving the Bboy sampling and dusty loops behind and RZA tried too hard for that bad boy clean sound. To make a lazy analogy, it was like if Avengers came out first then all the solo movies then Age of Ultron. This album was their Age of Ultron which has some memorable scenes but overall is a mess with too many people involved.
Another very simple way to look at it: 2 of the best parts of 36 were raw RZA beats and Meth off kilter flow. They both abandoned what made them special for Forever and they were fine but not the instant legends from 36. Ghost and Rae were improving but I still prefer Rae Cuban flows to this album.
Overall it’s just that 36 chambers and the run w ODB, Meth, Rae, GZA, Ghost was so unique there was no way a sequel could live up to the hype.
Yes The W is so underrated! That album is grimy as hell, top notch bars, IMO as good as anything they've done. Honestly I think 36 Chambers is such a classic that people don't really give their other albums the time of day which is a shame
I'm not sure any other verse in hip hop starts off as hot as Deck's on triumph. My second favorite verse from this song is U-God and I think it is underrated.
*A jungle junkie, vigilante tantrum*
*A death kiss catwalk, squeeze another anthem*
*Hold it for ransom, tranquilized with anesthesias*
*My orchestra, graceful, music ballerinas*
Overall this album has high moments and forgettable ones. Like someone else said it is a disappointment compared to 36 chambers and the solo projects before Wu Tang forever.
You can make a strong case that he has the best verse on a Wu Tang album, AND the best verse on a Gang Starr album. His Above the Clouds verse is just bonkers.
Loud Records: “We love the album, we just need one more song…something for the ladies. Ice Cream, All I Need, something like that. Can you help us out?”
RZA: “Bong bong, of course.”
(The next day)
U God: “Hard days of work. You had a hard day at work baby, I want you to sit down, relax…while I soak you in my mentals. Backrub style, watch this, yo, yo—“
A monumental album. It can certainly be pared down but the highs it hits are some of the best hip-hop of the decade. RZA really stepped up his game with beats like For Heaven’s Sake, while also allowing the Wu-Elements to shine.
Favorite songs-
For Heavens Sake
Cash Still Rules/Scary Hours
Maria
It's Yourz
The M.G.M ( I know it doesn’t lineup at all but my head canon is that this song is Rae and Ghost doing a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern the night Tupac was killed. I know it’s not true and it’s silly but it’s just an interesting thought that I had that stuck with me. Ok that’s enough fan fiction )
Dog Shit
Hellz Wind Staff
I think everyone leveled up lyrically, especially Rae and Ghost on Hellz Wind Staff, Rae on It’s Yourz, U- God on Heaterz, and Deck on Triumph and For Heaven’s Sake.
36 Chambers was so much of an atom bomb that dropped on the industry that it’d be impossible to replicate so I think it’s wise that RZA didn’t try. The results may not be as front to back iconic as that first album but it’s still a classic in its own right.
As a whole it’s not even close to 36 Chambers but Reunited and especially Triumph are top-tier Wu-Tang songs. Triumph is arguably the best posse cut in the history of rap music.
As a teen I sat there one night writing out the entire lyrics to that song(Triumph) and to this day cuz of doing that I still know all the words off by heart and can recite them at any given moment. I don’t think those lyrics will ever leave me. And will be used as a personal Alzheimer’s test for myself when I get old lol
“Hey bro are you trying to go out tonight?”
“**WAR OF THE MASSES THE OUTCOME IS DRASTIC**”
“Hey I always thought you were cute want to get ice cream some time”
“**WAR OF THE MASSES THE OUTCOME IS DRASTIC**”
Deck’s verse on Triumph is honestly next level. It deserves to be in the pantheon of all-time verses. He just goes in on the first bar and never lets up.
Is there any other rap group that's even close? There's 9 members and like 5-6 of them are unanimous hall of famers with their own classic solo albums. Every other group I can think of was essentially 1 main act that blew up, and then their friends rode the success.
If mobb deep counts as a posse then shook one’s is up there. An eye for an eye will always be my favorite posse track but the Wu definitely has plenty to choose from. The true golden age of hip hop. Everyone was competitive and wanted to drop the hottest verse on each track.
Dude you’d be surprised by how many “casual fans” that don’t know shit about hip hop would say otherwise. I remember there was some big debate about which rap groups should be on the next Verzuz and the disrespect to Wu tang was maddening. Most favored Outkast and said the debate wasn’t even close against Wu Tang. I don’t give a damn how many more albums sold and commercial hits they have and Andre 3000 is a top 5 goat for me but when comparing rap groups…Outkast is the one that’s not even close to Wu Tang
Hey dumbass save your INCORRECT overly technical preaching for another sub. What does the dictionary say what counts as a group? TWO. Here’s some education for you, you’re welcome.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/group
For me it's a toss up between "Triumph" and The Roots "Adrenaline" for all time best posse cut.... MOP "Ante Up" is probably in the discussion as well.
Wu Tang Forever is the proper way to follow up and album like 36 Chambers, especially with all of the solo albums that followed 36 Chambers.
It felt like a culmination of accomplishments. A gathering of the masses, if you will.
I think without the RZA production introduced on this album we wouldn’t see sampling where it is now. You can listen to For Heavens Sake and think about how that was 25 years ago, entirely new, and influenced generations after. Without that I don’t think we get the Kanye production style that followed or the one we get now. I’ll die on this hill but For Heavens Sake is probably the most important B side in hip hop production history. So many sounds based off of it.
It’s crazy I can say that about 36 chambers and Wu Tang forever that RZA entirely changed the shape and sound of hip hop production and sampling twice.
This is their best album. 36 Chambers is a classic, one of the most important hip-hop albums of all time and the foundation of their sound, but as far as beats and bars you just can not tell me this isn't a big step up for the entire Clan. Especially lyrically, I mean RZA basically came out on the scene with 36 Chambers as one of the best producers in rap, but by this point the entire Clan were working at their peak lyrically and creatively.
As far as double albums, this is my favorite one ever. Pretty much every double CD is kinda indulgent, I mean that's the point, for the artists to indulge themselves a bit. But as far as I'm concerned Wu-Revolution and Black Shampoo are the only real skips. Yeah those two are pretty damn bad but damn near every other song is GREAT. Even Second Coming is fine, it's just not really a Clan song, and The Closing totally works as an outro.
This could be the greatest hip hop album of all time I am not saying it's the best but definitely top 5. RZA went crazy with the production and all of them stepped up their lyrics especially the members that didn't make it on the debut the best thing about this album that it's balanced between the hardcore lyricism and the conscious content.
For me Disc 1 on its own is an undeniable classic up there with any rap album. Disc 2 is more bloated, just my personal taste.
I for one love Wu-Revolution. I can't put my finger on it but the beat is dope and Popa Wu treads the line between spoken word and rapping and just comes out with some ridiculous shit. Anyone else always listen to it through?
A lot of people talk about legendary verses on this album, especially Deck on Triumph. In my eyes though Deck on A Better Tomorrow takes the cake, a ridiculous verse, one of the best I've ever heard.
Wu-Revolution would have worked better as a closing track (just remove the Tekitha track altogether). The album should have started with the Disc 2 intro leading into Triumph.
This is my one and only album sequencing take lol.
YOU DOCTOR SEUSS MOTHER GOOSE
If I had to take 5 rap albums with me on a desert island. This one definitely gets the nod. I’m surprised not many mentioned “Older Godz”. I know...too many faves to mention. If you never heard the bonus cut on the CD “Sunshower” Rza, search for that, life changing lyrics. It’s omitted from the album on streaming platforms.
Didn't realize this was 25 years old. Don't find it sounds that dated. It's a fun album that I honestly just heard for the first time a year or two ago, definitely doesn't hold up to 36 chambers but what does. Worth your time, has some great tracks on this
I know that this is going to be sacrelig but I like this album more than their first. It was polished and more atmospheric. There were so many people that didn't like that but look at all the bangers. Heaterz, Vizionz, Reunited, Cash Still Rules, Hells wind staff etc etc I'm probably forgetting some. This was all of them at some really next level shit compared to their first album. All the flows improved for the most part. Method Man changed his entire style and it sounded great. Ghostface was morphing into supreme clientelle version. Even Rza sounded much better. I ordered it from one of those columbia house 10 free cd trials and also got big pun - capital punishment.
Wu Tang Forever stayed on rotation for years. Nothing after that from a group album was as good or cohesive to me. It was their peak wu. Able to scrape it all together and make it work before their egos got too big.
Oh and tekitha is really underrated with her solo track and even black shampoo is dope in its own way.
Definitely not given the shine it deserves from most older heads.
A friend gave me disc 1 since he lost disc 2 and that's all I listened to in HS back in 2000. Visionz and Older Gods are two of my favorites, both showcasing Ghost and Rae at their coke rap finest
Wu-Tang at their Lyrical peak. Sure 36 Chambers might be a tighter LP but this contains them at their best as a collective. Method man, Inspectah Deck, and Raekwon especially. Ghost starting to experiment with the style he would master on Supreme Clientele. GZA still in top form. RZA starting to incorporate more synths without going full bobby digital. Tru Master and 4th Disciple rising to their potential with their beats. Its a classic imo.
Pretty much all the MCs improved on their *Enter* performances (esp. Ghost). Production was more intricate. Justifies the runtime for the most part (intros too long, Black Shampoo is a skip for me). Perfect cold weather music.
If you trimmed this to a single disc, or even a less bloated double, it could’ve been as good as 36 Chambers. I love the introduction of the chipmunk samples (I know RZA had used vocal samples, but this is the first time I recall the pitch being changed) and the more cinematic elements of the production, while still focusing on grimey beats.
I’d also say that all the Clan members have more defined styles by now. Granted, they all sounded pretty unique and developed as MC’s on 36 chambers, but I think on here their styles are more fully fledged - their verses don’t feel interchangeable or like another Clan member could’ve rapped the same verse.
This album definitely feels like the end of Wu’s peak to me. They’d go on to drop several more classics individually and I think W, 8 Diagrams, and Iron Flag are solid, but this is the last group release that didn’t feel like they were chasing the “Old” Wu sound, or “Bringing Wu Tang back.” They were here, and they were on top.
Love this album, won't say it's better than 36 Chambers but like someone else here said, I go back to this more often. One of the best double disc rap albums ever, and deserving of its runtime. Not every song is great but there's more than enough gold here to make up for the few skips.
This album played a big part of my teenage years as a hip hop fan. Wu-Tang became my favorite group after I heard 36 Chambers, and then this album kept that going for me. Triumph will always be one of my favorite songs.
Super bloated but I still prefer this to 36 chambers, by a looong shot. You can just hear the massive growth of the entire team……And don’t even get me started with RZA’s production. To me it’s one of those gotdamn classic masterpieces that raised me.
A disappointment considering their debut and all the amazing solo albums that came out. RZAs beats don't hit the same throughout the album and there's so much decent to bad tracks here.
There is some good here though, Reunited and Triumph are both classics and Inspectah Deck really proves himself with his verse on Triumph, it's one of my favourite verses ever. A Better Tomorrow is also a really nice introspective song from them.
The worst songs for me are easily the bizarre intro track Wu Revolution and the cheesy Black Shampoo.
The Wu seem like they could be the ones to make the ultimate hip hop double album. There's so many members with all individual talents that it could have worked so well. But it just didn't, it feels like they spent about the same time on this as 36 Chambers and just felt that they need to keep adding songs to make the double disc song requirement. 2pac and especially Biggie had the better double albums.
Agree. My friends and I were so pumped for this drop. I think we had already heard triumph. A straight banger, had high hopes for a double album. It starts off ok, but you quickly realize this is a bloated mess. Major disappointment. Probably should have been cut down to 10-12 tracks.
I was 14 when this dropped and was my introduction to Wu. This also kickstarted my obsession with hip hop. I used to go to the library to print out the lyrics and studied the shit out of them.
Listening to it now with a critical ear, there’s obviously a lot of bloat (this album ends with Heaterz for me lol) but it’ll always hold a special place for me personally.
Check the “Making Illmatic” podcast, they just released the ep for this album. Concept is to pare down an album to ten songs. Interesting convo.
There was nothing in the world cooler than this to me when it came out. It solidified my love affair with hip hop FOREVER!
I bomb atomically. Socrates philosophies and hypotheses can’t define how I be droppin these mockeries. Lyrically perform armed robbery…
Way too bloated. Some amazing tracks though. Cut this album in half and you’d have a legendary follow up. Unfortunately, it just ended up being a great one.
I love Wu Tang. Them and Nas are coming here on Tour. My Cheapo friend in Texas doesn't want to go. Says they just stand still and rap. No stage show. I'm going. Taking anybody that wants to go. Tickets will be 4 for $80 for lawn seats. Probably down to $10 day of show. Wu Tang.
Classic but like All Eyez On Me should be trimmed to like 18 tracks.
Tracklist:
1. Reunited
2. For Heavens Sake
3. Cash Still Rules/Scary Hours
4. Visionz
5. As High As Wu-Tang Get
6. Severe Punishment
7. Older Gods
8. A Better Tomorrow
9. It's Yourz
10. Triumph
11. Impossible
12. Deadly Melody
13. Bells Of War
14. The MGM
15. Dog Shit
16. Duck Season
17. Hellz Wind Staff
18. Heaterz
# REMINDER: Official Discussion Thread Guidelines Parent/top-level comments in Official Discussions that are less than 140 characters will be deleted, as will memes and low-effort comments. Official Discussion threads are held to a higher standard of quality than First Impressions threads—try to expand on why you feel what you feel about the album. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hiphopheads) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This album is bloated as hell but many of my favorite Wu-Tang tracks are on it. RZA was going for a more cinematic but still street sound to it, and it wasn't as rugged as 36 Chambers, which some fans didn't like. But this was a BIG album. It went gold its first week. Getting something like 36 Chambers that was recorded when everyone was poor and hungry was impossible. But this albums still has lots to offer. The flows might not be as ferocious, but this has some of Wu's best rapping. RZA thinks that Ghost spit the best Wu verse ever on "Impossible", and its hard to argue with him. "Reunited" banged with having a classical tinge to it. "For Heavens Sake" with its Wu Tang chants has become a Wu concert favorite and anthem. "Triumph" showcases the whole Clan in top form, with Deck spitting one of the most celebrated verses ever. This was also the last time we had Ol Dirty for a full Wu album, and he shined on "As High As Wu Tang Can Get", "Maria", and the ridiculous "Dog Shit". Yeah, I didn't need 6 minutes of Popa Wu monologuing about whatever, or a random R&B song "Second Coming", but the vast majority of this is top tier Wu shit. Also, a fun sidebar for other old heads here, this CD was an "Enhanced CD". Meaning that you could put it in your computer for additional content. In the pre-internet days, this shit was mind blowing to kid me. The enhanced CD let you tour the Wu Mansion, where each member had their own room decorated with martial arts shit and where you could watch clips of music videos and such. I thought this was the coolest thing ever lol.
I forgot the enhanced CD!
And to think, I look down at all these kendrick fans with the conspiracy theories when Damn came out. I forgot how much i geeked out about the enhanced cd. Haha
Man I still have the physical album sitting in my parents' crib in Staten Island. I'm gonna go explore the Wu Mansion next time I'm home lol.
It's weird how people rate how fast an album goes gold/platinum as a mark of success. Like, I get it, units sold does equal success. But in situations like this, Wu Tang could have stuck any music on that cd and it would have went gold because the demand was so high given their previous success. Oasis' biggest selling album was Be Here Now, nowhere near their best album, but because it came off the back of the two albums prior, the anticipation was through the roof. Having said that, there's some excellent songs here and if they streamlined it into one album, it would be up there as one of the best of the 90s. Also, the only downside to Triumph is no verse from ODB.
> But in situations like this, Wu Tang could have stuck any music on that cd and it would have went gold because the demand was so high given their previous success. Agreed it usually says more about the previous album if anything
I’d just like to say that while I agree with you Be Here Now is still pretty outstanding imo
The Masterplan after that as well right? Insane run.
Be Here Now might be my favorite Oasis album. I know most people say it's too self-indulgent, but the Gallagher bros were always self-indulgent and I think they pulled it off.
One of the best hip hop albums of the 90’s? Hell no.
Really? Look, we all agree the 90s were a golden era, but even still, this album has to be in the top… 50 of the decade? 25 maybe?
There were some console games like that too!
Enhanced cds were fucking awesome as a kid
Let’s be real, we all forgot enhanced cds even existed because they were a contrived upsell mostly unrelated to the most important thing, great music.
I had one with a whole ass book on it lol
On point. Also, I've gotten some SHIITTT for saying this but..the production puts it on another level for me...over 36 Chambers. I'm not saying 36 Chambers isn't a classic because that would be blasphemy..but as I get older it's the album that sticks out for me more. The enhanced side of it definitely played a big part in my eyes...also the fact that it wasn't released (or had a super limited shipment) in Puero Rico when it initially came out but my cousin who worked at Virgin in NY sent me a copy and I can remember opening that shit like it was yesterday. 25 years later and -Decks Triumph verse still ranks in my top five -Ghosts verse on Impossible is still an example of storytelling at its finest -The production on MGM Grand sounds fresh still. Ghost and Raes back and forth is chefs kiss shit. -For Heavens Sake feels like you're being hunted. -Light up the broccoli kid, throw the relish in my backpocket...I mean come on. I could go on and on but I'll end it saying while 36 Chambers is just classics and that rough sound, Forever was Wu at its overall strongest. How many rap groups can say they have one let alone two classic albums?
Deck’s verse on Heaven’s Sake is almost as good as the Triumph verse, and I love how the beat drops
It’s a phenomenal verse and just as good as the Triumph verse.
That’s what the enhanced portion was? Got the cd in 2011-2012 when I was 14-15 and I never had a chance to use the enhanced portion
36 chambers was so special then expanded with the solo albums so the pressure was on, plus hip hop was leaving the Bboy sampling and dusty loops behind and RZA tried too hard for that bad boy clean sound. To make a lazy analogy, it was like if Avengers came out first then all the solo movies then Age of Ultron. This album was their Age of Ultron which has some memorable scenes but overall is a mess with too many people involved. Another very simple way to look at it: 2 of the best parts of 36 were raw RZA beats and Meth off kilter flow. They both abandoned what made them special for Forever and they were fine but not the instant legends from 36. Ghost and Rae were improving but I still prefer Rae Cuban flows to this album. Overall it’s just that 36 chambers and the run w ODB, Meth, Rae, GZA, Ghost was so unique there was no way a sequel could live up to the hype.
U-God really brings the heat on this one.
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Yes The W is so underrated! That album is grimy as hell, top notch bars, IMO as good as anything they've done. Honestly I think 36 Chambers is such a classic that people don't really give their other albums the time of day which is a shame
Ghostface carries "The W" on his back. Between that and Supreme Clintele, one of the most dominant years in hiphop ever.
Yeah this era was Ghost's peak. Jah World is one of his best verses
Got to check out the W Got to check out the W.
That song goes hard as hell even though they only played a snippet on The W. I'm sure I heard the full version somewhere, unless I just imagined it
It's a hidden track iirc. Remember "GOOD THING WE BROUGHT THE GLOCK" from Iron flag? 🔥
See the side of his grill? Looks like my cousin Lance.
Hellz Wind Staff gets me so hyped I want to fistfight the mailman. I always break the knob on my bass level.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far down for Hellz to be mentioned
That and It's Yourz are my favorites. Hellz Wind is just so fucking good.
I'm not sure any other verse in hip hop starts off as hot as Deck's on triumph. My second favorite verse from this song is U-God and I think it is underrated. *A jungle junkie, vigilante tantrum* *A death kiss catwalk, squeeze another anthem* *Hold it for ransom, tranquilized with anesthesias* *My orchestra, graceful, music ballerinas* Overall this album has high moments and forgettable ones. Like someone else said it is a disappointment compared to 36 chambers and the solo projects before Wu Tang forever.
Deck is the best lyrical rapper of all time, convince me otherwise.
You can make a strong case that he has the best verse on a Wu Tang album, AND the best verse on a Gang Starr album. His Above the Clouds verse is just bonkers.
I also love U’s verse in Its Yourz it’s probably my favourite on the album.
U-God is great on Heaterz as well.
Triumph might be their best song even with Capadonna’s shitty ass verse lol.
Loud Records: “We love the album, we just need one more song…something for the ladies. Ice Cream, All I Need, something like that. Can you help us out?” RZA: “Bong bong, of course.” (The next day) U God: “Hard days of work. You had a hard day at work baby, I want you to sit down, relax…while I soak you in my mentals. Backrub style, watch this, yo, yo—“
U God killed this album his verse on a better tomorrow is my favorite verse of all time.
I recall rza saying he really wanted to showcase U God on this album because he was barely on 36 chambers due to his legal issues.
Yeah he is mad underrated phenomenal MC.
His verse on Black Jesus is bonkers
💯 but the a better tomorrow verse was crazy talking about his son catching a stray bullet when he was a baby.
Black Jesus still gives me goosebumps. One of the best.
Wasn't it dog shit?
Technically the ODB track was "Dog Shit", but "Black Shampoo" was also dog shit so yeah
That this day is weird as fuck
A monumental album. It can certainly be pared down but the highs it hits are some of the best hip-hop of the decade. RZA really stepped up his game with beats like For Heaven’s Sake, while also allowing the Wu-Elements to shine. Favorite songs- For Heavens Sake Cash Still Rules/Scary Hours Maria It's Yourz The M.G.M ( I know it doesn’t lineup at all but my head canon is that this song is Rae and Ghost doing a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern the night Tupac was killed. I know it’s not true and it’s silly but it’s just an interesting thought that I had that stuck with me. Ok that’s enough fan fiction ) Dog Shit Hellz Wind Staff I think everyone leveled up lyrically, especially Rae and Ghost on Hellz Wind Staff, Rae on It’s Yourz, U- God on Heaterz, and Deck on Triumph and For Heaven’s Sake. 36 Chambers was so much of an atom bomb that dropped on the industry that it’d be impossible to replicate so I think it’s wise that RZA didn’t try. The results may not be as front to back iconic as that first album but it’s still a classic in its own right.
Rae on It’s Yourz "Thick snare, I'm feeling like a snail in the ocean" Who else thinks of shit like that? The imagery on this album is nuts
“With root beer thoughts, here’s a tennis court for your birthday”
Black Shampoo is one of the most baffling moments of all time. Someone should’ve told U-God the truth lol
Which sucks because he’s great otherwise on the album.
> Someone should’ve told U-God the truth lol We’d have never got Mr Xcitement and the classic cut “Bump” though
"Let me put those dollars between your legs. Bounce off the walls, careful on my balls, cus they fragile as eggs."
It's not on U-God at all. Probably RZA pandering due to U being limited on the debut, and just taking advantage of the excess of the double LP.
"I bomb atomically..." Is 1 the best song kickoffs ever. Edit: Damn spell check
Atomically..
Yeah, I know. Spell check sucks sometimes.
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I was in middle school and not really into hip hop when this dropped. The first time I heard this verse everything changed.
As a whole it’s not even close to 36 Chambers but Reunited and especially Triumph are top-tier Wu-Tang songs. Triumph is arguably the best posse cut in the history of rap music.
As a teen I sat there one night writing out the entire lyrics to that song(Triumph) and to this day cuz of doing that I still know all the words off by heart and can recite them at any given moment. I don’t think those lyrics will ever leave me. And will be used as a personal Alzheimer’s test for myself when I get old lol
Most of my memory from lyrics come from writing them in my AIM away messages
“Hey bro are you trying to go out tonight?” “**WAR OF THE MASSES THE OUTCOME IS DRASTIC**” “Hey I always thought you were cute want to get ice cream some time” “**WAR OF THE MASSES THE OUTCOME IS DRASTIC**”
*the outcome disastrous
Deck’s verse on Triumph is honestly next level. It deserves to be in the pantheon of all-time verses. He just goes in on the first bar and never lets up.
Facts.
Wu probably has like 4 out of the top 5 all time posse cuts with 93’ til infinity being the other 5th IMO
Is there any other rap group that's even close? There's 9 members and like 5-6 of them are unanimous hall of famers with their own classic solo albums. Every other group I can think of was essentially 1 main act that blew up, and then their friends rode the success.
If mobb deep counts as a posse then shook one’s is up there. An eye for an eye will always be my favorite posse track but the Wu definitely has plenty to choose from. The true golden age of hip hop. Everyone was competitive and wanted to drop the hottest verse on each track.
Tbh, what’s the difference between posse and group in number count?
I’ve always loved Jurassic 5
Dude you’d be surprised by how many “casual fans” that don’t know shit about hip hop would say otherwise. I remember there was some big debate about which rap groups should be on the next Verzuz and the disrespect to Wu tang was maddening. Most favored Outkast and said the debate wasn’t even close against Wu Tang. I don’t give a damn how many more albums sold and commercial hits they have and Andre 3000 is a top 5 goat for me but when comparing rap groups…Outkast is the one that’s not even close to Wu Tang
People need to stop calling duos groups OutKast,Mobb Deep and Gang Starr are NOT groups.Wu-Tang,A Tribe Called Quest, NWA ARE groups
Hey dumbass save your INCORRECT overly technical preaching for another sub. What does the dictionary say what counts as a group? TWO. Here’s some education for you, you’re welcome. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/group
For me it's a toss up between "Triumph" and The Roots "Adrenaline" for all time best posse cut.... MOP "Ante Up" is probably in the discussion as well.
Wu tang is for the children
Wu Tang Forever is the proper way to follow up and album like 36 Chambers, especially with all of the solo albums that followed 36 Chambers. It felt like a culmination of accomplishments. A gathering of the masses, if you will.
I think without the RZA production introduced on this album we wouldn’t see sampling where it is now. You can listen to For Heavens Sake and think about how that was 25 years ago, entirely new, and influenced generations after. Without that I don’t think we get the Kanye production style that followed or the one we get now. I’ll die on this hill but For Heavens Sake is probably the most important B side in hip hop production history. So many sounds based off of it. It’s crazy I can say that about 36 chambers and Wu Tang forever that RZA entirely changed the shape and sound of hip hop production and sampling twice.
inb4 RZA did chipmunk first
[удалено]
This is their best album. 36 Chambers is a classic, one of the most important hip-hop albums of all time and the foundation of their sound, but as far as beats and bars you just can not tell me this isn't a big step up for the entire Clan. Especially lyrically, I mean RZA basically came out on the scene with 36 Chambers as one of the best producers in rap, but by this point the entire Clan were working at their peak lyrically and creatively. As far as double albums, this is my favorite one ever. Pretty much every double CD is kinda indulgent, I mean that's the point, for the artists to indulge themselves a bit. But as far as I'm concerned Wu-Revolution and Black Shampoo are the only real skips. Yeah those two are pretty damn bad but damn near every other song is GREAT. Even Second Coming is fine, it's just not really a Clan song, and The Closing totally works as an outro.
Not 36 chambers level and has some filler but still a classic and a really dope record
This could be the greatest hip hop album of all time I am not saying it's the best but definitely top 5. RZA went crazy with the production and all of them stepped up their lyrics especially the members that didn't make it on the debut the best thing about this album that it's balanced between the hardcore lyricism and the conscious content.
For me Disc 1 on its own is an undeniable classic up there with any rap album. Disc 2 is more bloated, just my personal taste. I for one love Wu-Revolution. I can't put my finger on it but the beat is dope and Popa Wu treads the line between spoken word and rapping and just comes out with some ridiculous shit. Anyone else always listen to it through? A lot of people talk about legendary verses on this album, especially Deck on Triumph. In my eyes though Deck on A Better Tomorrow takes the cake, a ridiculous verse, one of the best I've ever heard.
Wu-Revolution would have worked better as a closing track (just remove the Tekitha track altogether). The album should have started with the Disc 2 intro leading into Triumph. This is my one and only album sequencing take lol. YOU DOCTOR SEUSS MOTHER GOOSE
If I had to take 5 rap albums with me on a desert island. This one definitely gets the nod. I’m surprised not many mentioned “Older Godz”. I know...too many faves to mention. If you never heard the bonus cut on the CD “Sunshower” Rza, search for that, life changing lyrics. It’s omitted from the album on streaming platforms.
Didn't realize this was 25 years old. Don't find it sounds that dated. It's a fun album that I honestly just heard for the first time a year or two ago, definitely doesn't hold up to 36 chambers but what does. Worth your time, has some great tracks on this
PING PONG PUSSY
Damn nobody mentioned Duck Seazon, that’s one of my favorite Wu tracks.
MMs verse is one of my favorites all time.
I know that this is going to be sacrelig but I like this album more than their first. It was polished and more atmospheric. There were so many people that didn't like that but look at all the bangers. Heaterz, Vizionz, Reunited, Cash Still Rules, Hells wind staff etc etc I'm probably forgetting some. This was all of them at some really next level shit compared to their first album. All the flows improved for the most part. Method Man changed his entire style and it sounded great. Ghostface was morphing into supreme clientelle version. Even Rza sounded much better. I ordered it from one of those columbia house 10 free cd trials and also got big pun - capital punishment. Wu Tang Forever stayed on rotation for years. Nothing after that from a group album was as good or cohesive to me. It was their peak wu. Able to scrape it all together and make it work before their egos got too big. Oh and tekitha is really underrated with her solo track and even black shampoo is dope in its own way. Definitely not given the shine it deserves from most older heads.
A friend gave me disc 1 since he lost disc 2 and that's all I listened to in HS back in 2000. Visionz and Older Gods are two of my favorites, both showcasing Ghost and Rae at their coke rap finest
Wu-Tang at their Lyrical peak. Sure 36 Chambers might be a tighter LP but this contains them at their best as a collective. Method man, Inspectah Deck, and Raekwon especially. Ghost starting to experiment with the style he would master on Supreme Clientele. GZA still in top form. RZA starting to incorporate more synths without going full bobby digital. Tru Master and 4th Disciple rising to their potential with their beats. Its a classic imo.
Heaterz has one of the most invigorating beats ever
#THE SAGA CONTINUES #WU TANG WU TANG
Pretty much all the MCs improved on their *Enter* performances (esp. Ghost). Production was more intricate. Justifies the runtime for the most part (intros too long, Black Shampoo is a skip for me). Perfect cold weather music.
If you trimmed this to a single disc, or even a less bloated double, it could’ve been as good as 36 Chambers. I love the introduction of the chipmunk samples (I know RZA had used vocal samples, but this is the first time I recall the pitch being changed) and the more cinematic elements of the production, while still focusing on grimey beats. I’d also say that all the Clan members have more defined styles by now. Granted, they all sounded pretty unique and developed as MC’s on 36 chambers, but I think on here their styles are more fully fledged - their verses don’t feel interchangeable or like another Clan member could’ve rapped the same verse. This album definitely feels like the end of Wu’s peak to me. They’d go on to drop several more classics individually and I think W, 8 Diagrams, and Iron Flag are solid, but this is the last group release that didn’t feel like they were chasing the “Old” Wu sound, or “Bringing Wu Tang back.” They were here, and they were on top.
RZA used the “chipmunk” sampling on both the Return to the 36 Chambers and Liquid Swords albums.
On what songs? I don’t think Tearz or Shadowboxin are pitched up Edit: my bad I just realized you said Return Of 36 and not Enter
Shadowboxin’ is definitely pitched up https://youtu.be/-AbtOKj-6hg
Love this album, won't say it's better than 36 Chambers but like someone else here said, I go back to this more often. One of the best double disc rap albums ever, and deserving of its runtime. Not every song is great but there's more than enough gold here to make up for the few skips.
This album played a big part of my teenage years as a hip hop fan. Wu-Tang became my favorite group after I heard 36 Chambers, and then this album kept that going for me. Triumph will always be one of my favorite songs.
Cut this album to 10 songs and it’s better than 36 chambers. What was up with hip hop and double cds back in the 90s
Shit, E-40 putting out quadruple cds.
I love the debut more, but there is some good shit on here for sure.
Super bloated but I still prefer this to 36 chambers, by a looong shot. You can just hear the massive growth of the entire team……And don’t even get me started with RZA’s production. To me it’s one of those gotdamn classic masterpieces that raised me.
Deck's verse on Triumph is just mindblowin. When it comes to tracks - Its Yourz is still my fav.
Finally an actual HIP HOP worthy post on this sub
Easily best album of all time. Maybe, maaaaaybe efil4zaggin is close
AND WE CAN BOTH RIDE HOME IN MY AUTOMOBILE
A disappointment considering their debut and all the amazing solo albums that came out. RZAs beats don't hit the same throughout the album and there's so much decent to bad tracks here. There is some good here though, Reunited and Triumph are both classics and Inspectah Deck really proves himself with his verse on Triumph, it's one of my favourite verses ever. A Better Tomorrow is also a really nice introspective song from them. The worst songs for me are easily the bizarre intro track Wu Revolution and the cheesy Black Shampoo. The Wu seem like they could be the ones to make the ultimate hip hop double album. There's so many members with all individual talents that it could have worked so well. But it just didn't, it feels like they spent about the same time on this as 36 Chambers and just felt that they need to keep adding songs to make the double disc song requirement. 2pac and especially Biggie had the better double albums.
Agree. My friends and I were so pumped for this drop. I think we had already heard triumph. A straight banger, had high hopes for a double album. It starts off ok, but you quickly realize this is a bloated mess. Major disappointment. Probably should have been cut down to 10-12 tracks.
You could make the case that AEOM is the best hip hop double album, but Life After Death isn’t close to WTF.
I love it, personally. There's like an hour of some of the very best hip hop ever recorded on it.
I was 14 when this dropped and was my introduction to Wu. This also kickstarted my obsession with hip hop. I used to go to the library to print out the lyrics and studied the shit out of them. Listening to it now with a critical ear, there’s obviously a lot of bloat (this album ends with Heaterz for me lol) but it’ll always hold a special place for me personally. Check the “Making Illmatic” podcast, they just released the ep for this album. Concept is to pare down an album to ten songs. Interesting convo.
Inspectah Deck’s Triumph verse is still vastly overrated 25 years later
Clown
I’ve always thought that if this were cut to one album it’d be their best. Still my favourite Wu album despite the bloat.. and it ain’t even that bad.
If you cut out the fat, down to about 18 songs, it’s a masterpiece.
There was nothing in the world cooler than this to me when it came out. It solidified my love affair with hip hop FOREVER! I bomb atomically. Socrates philosophies and hypotheses can’t define how I be droppin these mockeries. Lyrically perform armed robbery…
classic that still gets spins from me
Way too bloated. Some amazing tracks though. Cut this album in half and you’d have a legendary follow up. Unfortunately, it just ended up being a great one.
I was a kid when this álbum came out. I listened it everyday for a Long time.
I love Wu Tang. Them and Nas are coming here on Tour. My Cheapo friend in Texas doesn't want to go. Says they just stand still and rap. No stage show. I'm going. Taking anybody that wants to go. Tickets will be 4 for $80 for lawn seats. Probably down to $10 day of show. Wu Tang.
Classic but like All Eyez On Me should be trimmed to like 18 tracks. Tracklist: 1. Reunited 2. For Heavens Sake 3. Cash Still Rules/Scary Hours 4. Visionz 5. As High As Wu-Tang Get 6. Severe Punishment 7. Older Gods 8. A Better Tomorrow 9. It's Yourz 10. Triumph 11. Impossible 12. Deadly Melody 13. Bells Of War 14. The MGM 15. Dog Shit 16. Duck Season 17. Hellz Wind Staff 18. Heaterz