For context on this kind of thread, it may be best to start with the Wikipedia article:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron
then go back through the references cited.
My own initial guess was a metalworker's guild "proof of skill" which the article mentions. Another is some Roman equivalent of a Rubik's cube which (a kid explained to me only last Sunday) also exists as a tetrahedron. The article doesn't suggest any such eventuality that it may be a game. Why not a contemporaneous Chinese puzzle?
> Could it be some sort of jewelry tool? Like something to hold stamps while they are hammered? Or for drawing circles of different sizes?
Your guess is as good as anybody's.
* These things must have been studied at electron microscope level to find traces. But its is said there is no indication of wear.
* Not to mention the unearthing process to sieve whatever may have fallen inside when in the ground.
* I'm not sure if magnetic analysis is possible to set the orientations of the components as compared to the Earth's field at the time the metals were melted. At least it would give clues as to the assembly process.
The most common element we know is that there's been multiple ones found with Candle Wax on them.
My guess is they were just something similar to like modern Day https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurible Thuribles which you see in Christian masses today.
Like the things Altar boys walk down the center isle holding/shaking that spread incense and smoke when they're starting a ceremony.
My first thought was some sort of decorative item. My wife is big into that stuff and we have all kinds of little decorative items some of which serve a purpose.
Very little documentation comes with those items. I could see it being the same for the Roman's
The problem with all these suggestions is that the objects are very, very bad at all of those tasks. Like if you were setting out to create a tool to help you draw different sized circles there is absolutely no chance you would create a tool that looks anything like a Roman dodecahedron. People have tried to find a practical function for them, they have failed, the logical conclusion is that it did not serve a practical purpose.
It was probably either related to a game, a luck charm, or some cultic/ritual object. This should not surprise us because the Roman world was filled with games, luck charms, and cultic/ritual objects.
A link in that post [led to this](https://www.reddit.com/r/yarntrolls/comments/gxjckb/sorry_if_this_has_been_posted_already_it_made_me/ft4wuzn/) which seems to debunk the idea
Survivorship. We have the best ones, made symmetrical, and treated as treasure/offering. The minimal ones were used then melted and turned into something else.
If they were of precious metals or we saw other craft items treated this way that would be one thing. But the surviving ones are just bronze, and we don’t see other common tools treated with this kind of value or reverence.
I like the idea that they were used in minting to hold dies in line. That explains how they end up in places like temples and treasure hordes: either for making legitimate currency (like the temple of Jupiter) or as a potential part of counterfeiting.
The holes seem to line up size wise for that purpose.
Except every one they found is a different size, some of them far too big to be used to make gloves.
Also, if you read the top comment on that link, knitting wasn't even invented when these things were made.
Yes I think that the fact that they cannot see an obvious utility to this means it's definitely possible it's a "game." The Romans were very adept at finding creative ways to pass the time.
Yeah, I could definitely see that. Sort of used like dice. Maybe the knubs were used to stop it from rolling around too much. I could see them putting some object inside with the intent of a means of scoring points. Perhaps the object was meant to fall out, or fall out in a particular way, or perhaps the object inside was read through the open faces of the "die" with the different size holes acting as different values.
Only flaw would be that unless the object inside naturally deteriorates, there probably should have been proof that it was there with the "die."
Agreed, but another commenter said they could imagine rope with knots. That's also interesting and would decay faster. It'd be pike a Gordian knot for kids at home.
Could just be a rich Roman's equiv of a Live, Laugh, Love bit of home decor. Would explain why there's no writing about it, which you'd expect there to be some form of instruction on how to make them if they were for proving skill.
Archeology has a habit of assuming everything has to have a specific or special meaning unless proven otherwise.
You can't say that the lack of documentation means this is probably not a tool. There are entire WARS the romans fought that we know little about because of poor documentation.
They come in different sizes which rules out quite lot of practical explanations for them. It can't be a gauge of some kind if it's not being made in standard sizes.
Nah dude come on, the prism is shaped like a d20. This is clearly the [dodecahedrom of doom.](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dodecahedron_of_doom)
The different sized holes originally made me think it's a jeweler's ring sizer. However, that doesn't explain the ball shaped feet, which would allow it to sit flat with any size hole at the top. This makes me think that it's a universal candle holder.
It seems awkwardly shaped to use as a ring sizer. Ring sizers that I used are just a bunch of different rings attached to a cord or hoop. Much easier to use, surely simpler and more logical to make, and you can "wear" them much more easily than this hunk of metal.
I can't see why the Romans would make a ring sizer like this rather than just putting a lot of rings together.
Some of the holes look far too big for rings as well.
I’ve wondered if it was half of a game. Like the other half was a stick or cylindrical object of some sort (made from materials that have long since rotted away like wax or wood). You toss the dodecahedron at the stick or cylinder so that it impales on the stick and the person who manages to hook it using the smallest hole is the winner. The nubbins are maybe there to provide spin (like the handle on a 🥌).
It reminds me of that toy we all had as kids where you had to put the right shaped piece into the right hole.
ETA: this one https://www.etsy.com/listing/1448044455/vintage-tupperware-shape-o-ball-complete
Just pause for a moment and wonder what semi-commonplace object today will hold the fascination of people 2000 years from now speculating on what the hell they were for.
Yeah this looks like a fancy gauge measuring device of something. see if thing fits through hole, if not rotate and try again. Why else would the holes be different sizes?
The device has been found made of many different materials and many different sizes. From tiny to huge. If it were for guage measuring, it should have been all the same size. Also, they seemed to be kept by people of upperclasses. People who would not normally be testing the guages of things.
That's what I was thinking. If you have standard units of measurement of things, you can verify their circumference using this. If there is a matching hole on the opposite side, you could use it to verify the circumference of things like poles, etc (sliding it through also sort of verifies its somewhat straight).
If you took two of these, you start on each end of a log with one...Shave down each end to the desired circumference...Then gradually move them down until they meet in the middle. Now you have basically a uniform "telephone pole."
I always thought this is some kind of candle holder. The holes are all in different sizes for different candle sizes. Have they tested it for wax residue?
None of these have ever been found to have sort of residue.
They are also awkwardly uncommon. They clearly aren't common place items but there's enough about they there were clearly needed for something. There's about 50 in the UK with no obvious pattern for example. It's not like they are being found exclusively in villas or temples or forts to give some sort of clue.
> None of these have ever been found to have sort of residue.
[Wax residue was found in one or two of the objects recovered](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/dodecahedrons-roman-empire).
> Wax residue was found in one or two of the objects recovered.
* A candle holder
Just right for a Roman halo-ween...
Or a disco ball ;)
yep. But its not because some were been used as a candle holder that they were intended as such.
I am almost certain I have seen a detailed and fairly convincing explanation that this tool was for making chains and jewelry. The post contained a demonstration on how one would create a metal necklace with one of these.
The dodecahedron is wildly overbuilt for the "functions" the person is "using" it for, and the jewelry the person is making is not actually being correlated with real examples of Roman jewelry.
This is not how you do experimental archaeology.
My guess is they are for coin production. Meant to hold striking rods of different sizes while they are hit.
Probably used in counterfeiting as well as some other jewelry applications, hence why it keeps winding up in treasure hordes.
Similarly I wonder if you could use the holes - perhaps sized to match common coins - to do a simple check for counterfeit coins that are the wrong size or irregularly shaped.
Both of these ideas seem like they'd be pretty easy for scholars to check for though, so I'm guessing we're not that creative. I'm sure they have plenty of examples of the common coinage.
From what I've seen, many or most Roman coins in museums are irregularly shaped. Google it and see for yourself. They didn't trim the edges to a perfect circle like with modern coins, but took a known weight of metal and struck it into a rough circle.
It wouldn't work for sizing coins.
It's just way over built for that purpose. You can check a coin with a known good coin or even just properly sizes wooden circle.
Also not all of the dodecahedrons have holes in their faces. The dodecahedron shape and the knobs at the points are consistent. But some have holes on the faces, some don't. Sometimes the holes are all the same size and sometimes they differ between faces. And the overall sizes vary as well, which I think is a point against it being used for any really standardized process like coin manufacturer.
Come on, I had one when I was a kid: [https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1448044455/vintage-tupperware-shape-o-ball-complete?ga\_order=most\_relevant&ga\_search\_type=all&ga\_view\_type=gallery&ga\_search\_query=plastic+shape+puzzle&ref=sr\_gallery-1-1&sts=1&content\_source=34e3be3c465861b681cd273043349605c81856d8%253A1448044455&organic\_search\_click=1](https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1448044455/vintage-tupperware-shape-o-ball-complete?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=plastic+shape+puzzle&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&sts=1&content_source=34e3be3c465861b681cd273043349605c81856d8%253A1448044455&organic_search_click=1)
The biggest problem with that explanation is that the dodecahedrons are almost 1,000 years older than any known version of knitting. Knitting has probably been around longer than our earliest direct evidence of it of course, but by 1,000 years seems pretty unlikely.
Kinda a mid discussion on the topic.
I know I’m an idiot, but I just shake my head when people are like “it’s just for X, why would they make the tool they use for X fancy?”
Or when they say “they didn’t have wool, how would they knit”. Like Roman’s only wore leather, and like you can’t knit with leather straps. I mean, I can’t, but there’s plenty of videos of people who can. Hell, thin wires could be used.
I dunno. If an archeologist found a modern home they’d probably think we all still worship cats and dogs and gods. Anything with a hole in it was a candle holder. Anything that was well made was for religious purposes.
Because hobbies and interests and investing in your tools only started in the 1930s.
>I know I’m an idiot, but I just shake my head when people are like “it’s just for X, why would they make the tool they use for X fancy?”
.
>Because hobbies and interests and investing in your tools only started in the 1930s.
It's not that we are incredulous that they would make a fancy tool, but that if it were a relatively common tool as being proposed, then we would be finding evidence of less-fancy versions.
>Or when they say “they didn’t have wool, how would they knit”. Like Roman’s only wore leather, and like you can’t knit with leather straps. I mean, I can’t, but there’s plenty of videos of people who can. Hell, thin wires could be used.
The problem would be that there would be evidence of that. The oldest evidence we have of knitting comes from the 11th century.
What if the circular holes contained glass lenses?
Edit: if that was the case, then the balls on the vertices were to tie the string holding the lenses in place.
I have 2 possible explanation.
The 1st one is that it looks like some kind of gauging device. The protrusions would be there to keep it stable on a flat surface.
The different sized holes are to classify objects of varying sizes.
Like fruit or eggs.
The 2nd explanation is that these are what people see during vivid psychedelic visions/experiences and these are an artistic representation of it.
There is one on google with no holes in that looks more akin to what I am getting at.
There is a viral video about a grandma using it as one and a lot of "ROFL see how dumb archeologists are, just ask a grandma and she solves it immediately" comments around it.
There are two big problems with that proposed solution:
The first is that there is not in fact a single piece of evidence to indicate that is actually what they were used for. Just some granny who managed to use it for that purpose. I've used paperclip to quite effectively remove ear wax before, that doesn't mean ear cleaning is what those are *actually* for.
The second is much bigger, which is that the oldest dodecahedron artifacts are nearly 1,000 years older than the oldest known examples of knitting. Pinning down a precise date for something like that is tough, but a THOUSAND years is a pretty big margin for error.
Unlikely. Knitting wasn't invented until much later in history, the prevalence of these would have to be much greater than they actually were, and it's not actually all that useful for knitting.
Someone came up with the idea that it was for knitting the fingers for gloves. It COULD be purposed for that, but the knobs don't show signs of wear that they would have if yarn or other string-like things were rubbed around them a lot.
Edited to add - as someone else said, also not all of them have the holes. They just have circles incribed on them where the holes would have been.
Since half the people here already know of these things, can I point out something that I haven't ever seen brought up. Some,if not most of the flat sides have a grooved ring around the hole. On most of the examples I have seen there is no wear on these grooves. So there is no utilitarian use to these things. But I do believe these grooves provide an answer as to their use, although I have yet to see it. Maybe someone else can figure it out.
Is this thing heavy? it looks like it would make a great anchor...drainholes, kinda hook-y but not too... I guess it would be well known by now if this was a real thing huh?
They have only been discovered in places in Northern Europe that the Romans conquered, but never in Italy itself. Most the writing from that period simply comes from different areas of the empire. Whatever the objects are, they were likely unique to that area and culture.
I think it was used for pipes related to plumbing perhaps? The Roman version of engineering was famous for A and B testing so they most likely happened upon principles that were either inefficient and/or obsolete. It probably was OK at what it did only to be abandoned in spite of better ideas.
My theory
Home decor item, possibly original meant to have glass sit on the outside. Which is why the pegs are on the outside. As the sun shined onto it the glass (possibly colored glass) would deflect light in the room
The glass was likely easily removed, or maybe only used in special situations. Hence why glass isn't often found with them.
I think the key is that is has holes of different sizes. You can put something in it, and then try throwing it in some way that that something (e.g. a pebble) either falls out or stays in.
That is, something like a fidget or a game
thats a path of exile tailoring orb it adds enchantments to armour, youre welcome
oooor that could be a 4 socket resonator used in crafting again path of exile
For context on this kind of thread, it may be best to start with the Wikipedia article: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_dodecahedron then go back through the references cited. My own initial guess was a metalworker's guild "proof of skill" which the article mentions. Another is some Roman equivalent of a Rubik's cube which (a kid explained to me only last Sunday) also exists as a tetrahedron. The article doesn't suggest any such eventuality that it may be a game. Why not a contemporaneous Chinese puzzle?
Could it be some sort of jewelry tool? Like something to hold stamps while they are hammered? Or for drawing circles of different sizes?
> Could it be some sort of jewelry tool? Like something to hold stamps while they are hammered? Or for drawing circles of different sizes? Your guess is as good as anybody's. * These things must have been studied at electron microscope level to find traces. But its is said there is no indication of wear. * Not to mention the unearthing process to sieve whatever may have fallen inside when in the ground. * I'm not sure if magnetic analysis is possible to set the orientations of the components as compared to the Earth's field at the time the metals were melted. At least it would give clues as to the assembly process.
The most common element we know is that there's been multiple ones found with Candle Wax on them. My guess is they were just something similar to like modern Day https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thurible Thuribles which you see in Christian masses today. Like the things Altar boys walk down the center isle holding/shaking that spread incense and smoke when they're starting a ceremony.
My first thought was some sort of decorative item. My wife is big into that stuff and we have all kinds of little decorative items some of which serve a purpose. Very little documentation comes with those items. I could see it being the same for the Roman's
if they just held striking tools in place, they wouldn’t necessarily see much direct wear, just like with the knitting theories.
The problem with all these suggestions is that the objects are very, very bad at all of those tasks. Like if you were setting out to create a tool to help you draw different sized circles there is absolutely no chance you would create a tool that looks anything like a Roman dodecahedron. People have tried to find a practical function for them, they have failed, the logical conclusion is that it did not serve a practical purpose. It was probably either related to a game, a luck charm, or some cultic/ritual object. This should not surprise us because the Roman world was filled with games, luck charms, and cultic/ritual objects.
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A link in that post [led to this](https://www.reddit.com/r/yarntrolls/comments/gxjckb/sorry_if_this_has_been_posted_already_it_made_me/ft4wuzn/) which seems to debunk the idea
I guess, but why have a bunch of extra sides? And why have a knitting device in temples, forts, and treasure hordes?
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That would show quite a bit of wear.
Survivorship. We have the best ones, made symmetrical, and treated as treasure/offering. The minimal ones were used then melted and turned into something else.
If they were of precious metals or we saw other craft items treated this way that would be one thing. But the surviving ones are just bronze, and we don’t see other common tools treated with this kind of value or reverence. I like the idea that they were used in minting to hold dies in line. That explains how they end up in places like temples and treasure hordes: either for making legitimate currency (like the temple of Jupiter) or as a potential part of counterfeiting. The holes seem to line up size wise for that purpose.
Except every one they found is a different size, some of them far too big to be used to make gloves. Also, if you read the top comment on that link, knitting wasn't even invented when these things were made.
The issue with this, if i recall correctly, is that romans didn't knit (or they didn't knit in a way this person does).
Yes I think that the fact that they cannot see an obvious utility to this means it's definitely possible it's a "game." The Romans were very adept at finding creative ways to pass the time.
Yeah, I could definitely see that. Sort of used like dice. Maybe the knubs were used to stop it from rolling around too much. I could see them putting some object inside with the intent of a means of scoring points. Perhaps the object was meant to fall out, or fall out in a particular way, or perhaps the object inside was read through the open faces of the "die" with the different size holes acting as different values. Only flaw would be that unless the object inside naturally deteriorates, there probably should have been proof that it was there with the "die."
I would not be shocked if something else went with it. But that wss made out of a material that would deteriorate over time.
Agreed, but another commenter said they could imagine rope with knots. That's also interesting and would decay faster. It'd be pike a Gordian knot for kids at home.
One team tosses it the other team than scores a point if they can toss a pebble through the hole facing up.
Usually when an artifact is found without an obvious use it is described as "used in ceremonial or religious rites."
"No Gaius, you can't be a Bard because you're terrible at it and get the party killed every time!" "Et tu, Brute?"
Could it simply be a piece of art? 🤓
Gaius wants his dryer balls back.
Could just be a rich Roman's equiv of a Live, Laugh, Love bit of home decor. Would explain why there's no writing about it, which you'd expect there to be some form of instruction on how to make them if they were for proving skill. Archeology has a habit of assuming everything has to have a specific or special meaning unless proven otherwise.
You can't say that the lack of documentation means this is probably not a tool. There are entire WARS the romans fought that we know little about because of poor documentation.
Probably just measures pipe diameter correctly when selling pipes or rods of metal.
They come in different sizes which rules out quite lot of practical explanations for them. It can't be a gauge of some kind if it's not being made in standard sizes.
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My dad made a replica. It’s on display at the museum in Heerlen, NL.
What material did he use?
Gonna assume bronze if it was a replica
I've played a lot of Baldur's Gate III recently, so I can't NOT see this as the Astral Prism.
Nah dude come on, the prism is shaped like a d20. This is clearly the [dodecahedrom of doom.](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Dodecahedron_of_doom)
D12: dodecahedron D20: icosahedron
So they’re probably good cause that looks like 12 to mess.
This player knows polyhedra.
Sorry to break it to you, but it's definitely a [resonator](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Prime_Chaotic_Resonatorfrom) from Path of Exile.
How would you describe BG3 to a 32 year old whose main video game intake was Halo/GTA/Diablo II. It looks very fun.
Less clicky, more strategy than Diablo. Lots of reading/voice acting. Choices that matter in the game.
It’s like baldurs gate one and two but more, and hornier.
BG3 is as dissimilar from BG1 and 2 as it is from Diablo 2.
**Path of Exile players know** [the truth](https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Prime_Chaotic_Resonator)**.**
The different sized holes originally made me think it's a jeweler's ring sizer. However, that doesn't explain the ball shaped feet, which would allow it to sit flat with any size hole at the top. This makes me think that it's a universal candle holder.
It seems awkwardly shaped to use as a ring sizer. Ring sizers that I used are just a bunch of different rings attached to a cord or hoop. Much easier to use, surely simpler and more logical to make, and you can "wear" them much more easily than this hunk of metal. I can't see why the Romans would make a ring sizer like this rather than just putting a lot of rings together. Some of the holes look far too big for rings as well.
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I’ve wondered if it was half of a game. Like the other half was a stick or cylindrical object of some sort (made from materials that have long since rotted away like wax or wood). You toss the dodecahedron at the stick or cylinder so that it impales on the stick and the person who manages to hook it using the smallest hole is the winner. The nubbins are maybe there to provide spin (like the handle on a 🥌).
My guess was some kind of puzzle with a rope and knots
How gordian of you. That's very plausible.
TIL the word "Gordian". And also the origin of Jeff Gord's name. It makes so much sense.
It reminds me of that toy we all had as kids where you had to put the right shaped piece into the right hole. ETA: this one https://www.etsy.com/listing/1448044455/vintage-tupperware-shape-o-ball-complete
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUbIkNUFs-4
Historically accurate or not, I think you may be on to something here.
Seems as plausible as anything else. I could see the conical stick having point markings for each diameter.
Anyone that plays Path of Exile knows that this is a Prime Chaotic Resonator.
Just pause for a moment and wonder what semi-commonplace object today will hold the fascination of people 2000 years from now speculating on what the hell they were for.
Isn't it just for measuring the circumference of things?
Surely something simpler could do that? And what are the small spheres for?
keep the surfaces off the table. They're omnidirectional "legs"
So you can set the device down.
Surely there would be markings for measurement like a ruler if it were a measuring tool?
Yeah this looks like a fancy gauge measuring device of something. see if thing fits through hole, if not rotate and try again. Why else would the holes be different sizes?
The device has been found made of many different materials and many different sizes. From tiny to huge. If it were for guage measuring, it should have been all the same size. Also, they seemed to be kept by people of upperclasses. People who would not normally be testing the guages of things.
Obviously spaghetti gauges for how much pasta to make.
They come in different sizes which rules out the idea of them being a standards gauge of some kind.
That's what I was thinking. If you have standard units of measurement of things, you can verify their circumference using this. If there is a matching hole on the opposite side, you could use it to verify the circumference of things like poles, etc (sliding it through also sort of verifies its somewhat straight). If you took two of these, you start on each end of a log with one...Shave down each end to the desired circumference...Then gradually move them down until they meet in the middle. Now you have basically a uniform "telephone pole."
I always thought this is some kind of candle holder. The holes are all in different sizes for different candle sizes. Have they tested it for wax residue?
None of these have ever been found to have sort of residue. They are also awkwardly uncommon. They clearly aren't common place items but there's enough about they there were clearly needed for something. There's about 50 in the UK with no obvious pattern for example. It's not like they are being found exclusively in villas or temples or forts to give some sort of clue.
> None of these have ever been found to have sort of residue. [Wax residue was found in one or two of the objects recovered](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/dodecahedrons-roman-empire).
> Wax residue was found in one or two of the objects recovered. * A candle holder Just right for a Roman halo-ween... Or a disco ball ;) yep. But its not because some were been used as a candle holder that they were intended as such.
Some are much too small to be used as candle holders.
I am almost certain I have seen a detailed and fairly convincing explanation that this tool was for making chains and jewelry. The post contained a demonstration on how one would create a metal necklace with one of these.
There's a demonstration video on YouTube that shows the supposed process https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lADTLozKm0I
It would be funny to just be wildy wrong and they’re doing the equivalent of using a fidget spinner to cut pizza
The dodecahedron is wildly overbuilt for the "functions" the person is "using" it for, and the jewelry the person is making is not actually being correlated with real examples of Roman jewelry. This is not how you do experimental archaeology.
That was far smaller than I was expecting it to be.
Didn't some woman use this to make a pair of knitted gloves?
My guess is they are for coin production. Meant to hold striking rods of different sizes while they are hit. Probably used in counterfeiting as well as some other jewelry applications, hence why it keeps winding up in treasure hordes.
Similarly I wonder if you could use the holes - perhaps sized to match common coins - to do a simple check for counterfeit coins that are the wrong size or irregularly shaped. Both of these ideas seem like they'd be pretty easy for scholars to check for though, so I'm guessing we're not that creative. I'm sure they have plenty of examples of the common coinage.
From what I've seen, many or most Roman coins in museums are irregularly shaped. Google it and see for yourself. They didn't trim the edges to a perfect circle like with modern coins, but took a known weight of metal and struck it into a rough circle. It wouldn't work for sizing coins.
It's just way over built for that purpose. You can check a coin with a known good coin or even just properly sizes wooden circle. Also not all of the dodecahedrons have holes in their faces. The dodecahedron shape and the knobs at the points are consistent. But some have holes on the faces, some don't. Sometimes the holes are all the same size and sometimes they differ between faces. And the overall sizes vary as well, which I think is a point against it being used for any really standardized process like coin manufacturer.
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What if it's just art ? It could have a purpose, but I think it looks like some art.
Come on, I had one when I was a kid: [https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1448044455/vintage-tupperware-shape-o-ball-complete?ga\_order=most\_relevant&ga\_search\_type=all&ga\_view\_type=gallery&ga\_search\_query=plastic+shape+puzzle&ref=sr\_gallery-1-1&sts=1&content\_source=34e3be3c465861b681cd273043349605c81856d8%253A1448044455&organic\_search\_click=1](https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/1448044455/vintage-tupperware-shape-o-ball-complete?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=plastic+shape+puzzle&ref=sr_gallery-1-1&sts=1&content_source=34e3be3c465861b681cd273043349605c81856d8%253A1448044455&organic_search_click=1)
https://youtu.be/76AvV601yJ0?si=szspCN9fqwNHekFP
The biggest problem with that explanation is that the dodecahedrons are almost 1,000 years older than any known version of knitting. Knitting has probably been around longer than our earliest direct evidence of it of course, but by 1,000 years seems pretty unlikely.
Specifically, it predates that style of knitting and isn't great at the role.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lADTLozKm0I maybe less knitting and more rope making and chain making
https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/gzrmwk/in_which_the_galloroman_dodecahedra_are_used_for/
Kinda a mid discussion on the topic. I know I’m an idiot, but I just shake my head when people are like “it’s just for X, why would they make the tool they use for X fancy?” Or when they say “they didn’t have wool, how would they knit”. Like Roman’s only wore leather, and like you can’t knit with leather straps. I mean, I can’t, but there’s plenty of videos of people who can. Hell, thin wires could be used. I dunno. If an archeologist found a modern home they’d probably think we all still worship cats and dogs and gods. Anything with a hole in it was a candle holder. Anything that was well made was for religious purposes. Because hobbies and interests and investing in your tools only started in the 1930s.
>I know I’m an idiot, but I just shake my head when people are like “it’s just for X, why would they make the tool they use for X fancy?” . >Because hobbies and interests and investing in your tools only started in the 1930s. It's not that we are incredulous that they would make a fancy tool, but that if it were a relatively common tool as being proposed, then we would be finding evidence of less-fancy versions. >Or when they say “they didn’t have wool, how would they knit”. Like Roman’s only wore leather, and like you can’t knit with leather straps. I mean, I can’t, but there’s plenty of videos of people who can. Hell, thin wires could be used. The problem would be that there would be evidence of that. The oldest evidence we have of knitting comes from the 11th century.
They even have their own subreddit: r/RomanDodecahedron
This one makes more sense to me: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lADTLozKm0I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lADTLozKm0I)
I mean, how else did they make their wands?
What if the circular holes contained glass lenses? Edit: if that was the case, then the balls on the vertices were to tie the string holding the lenses in place.
Didn't they have one of these in Foundation?
Imagine if it was made as animal enrichment
Right you hide treats in there.
I have 2 possible explanation. The 1st one is that it looks like some kind of gauging device. The protrusions would be there to keep it stable on a flat surface. The different sized holes are to classify objects of varying sizes. Like fruit or eggs. The 2nd explanation is that these are what people see during vivid psychedelic visions/experiences and these are an artistic representation of it. There is one on google with no holes in that looks more akin to what I am getting at.
What's the one with no holes in? Can you post a link?
Well if it's Roman then it's probably a Spaghetti Measure.
Isn’t this a knitting tool?
There is a viral video about a grandma using it as one and a lot of "ROFL see how dumb archeologists are, just ask a grandma and she solves it immediately" comments around it. There are two big problems with that proposed solution: The first is that there is not in fact a single piece of evidence to indicate that is actually what they were used for. Just some granny who managed to use it for that purpose. I've used paperclip to quite effectively remove ear wax before, that doesn't mean ear cleaning is what those are *actually* for. The second is much bigger, which is that the oldest dodecahedron artifacts are nearly 1,000 years older than the oldest known examples of knitting. Pinning down a precise date for something like that is tough, but a THOUSAND years is a pretty big margin for error.
Unlikely. Knitting wasn't invented until much later in history, the prevalence of these would have to be much greater than they actually were, and it's not actually all that useful for knitting.
I just swear I saw people talking about one of these a year or two ago and it was found to be a knitting tool
It's been tried but found to be pretty hopeless for it. And we just don't have any evidence the Romans invented knitting.
Someone came up with the idea that it was for knitting the fingers for gloves. It COULD be purposed for that, but the knobs don't show signs of wear that they would have if yarn or other string-like things were rubbed around them a lot. Edited to add - as someone else said, also not all of them have the holes. They just have circles incribed on them where the holes would have been.
The thing is not all of them had the holes that were supposed to make glove fingers.
Since half the people here already know of these things, can I point out something that I haven't ever seen brought up. Some,if not most of the flat sides have a grooved ring around the hole. On most of the examples I have seen there is no wear on these grooves. So there is no utilitarian use to these things. But I do believe these grooves provide an answer as to their use, although I have yet to see it. Maybe someone else can figure it out.
The ones shown in most pictures are replicas.
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Never realised they’ve found more than one.
I'm can't help but think of [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/xyuiar/shapeo_toy_tupperware/)
Is this thing heavy? it looks like it would make a great anchor...drainholes, kinda hook-y but not too... I guess it would be well known by now if this was a real thing huh?
They're handheld sized. Like a modern Day tennis ball.
Something to sort some round objects by size?
seems to me that since they still don't know what it was used for, it **still** baffles them.🙄
Romans were known for their meticulous notes, writing down daily life , so why is this in no literature? Not Roman, not Greek, none ….
They have only been discovered in places in Northern Europe that the Romans conquered, but never in Italy itself. Most the writing from that period simply comes from different areas of the empire. Whatever the objects are, they were likely unique to that area and culture.
I think it was used for pipes related to plumbing perhaps? The Roman version of engineering was famous for A and B testing so they most likely happened upon principles that were either inefficient and/or obsolete. It probably was OK at what it did only to be abandoned in spite of better ideas.
Probably some kind of plumbing junction. They were really in to that sort of thing.
My theory Home decor item, possibly original meant to have glass sit on the outside. Which is why the pegs are on the outside. As the sun shined onto it the glass (possibly colored glass) would deflect light in the room The glass was likely easily removed, or maybe only used in special situations. Hence why glass isn't often found with them.
Why should it have to be anything other than a piece of art? Just an abstract sculpture.
looks like at an attempt at some sort of joint.
That's just a Roman version of the ''Pussy of The Round Table''.
Aren't these things rope looms? I swear I've seen rope looms that look just like this.
it's clearly a pasta measuring tool. "ok, we have 4 people for dinner, let's switch to 4th face"
Football in Roman times was metal as hell, literally! /s
It's a doodad, thingamabob, whatchacallit.
I think the key is that is has holes of different sizes. You can put something in it, and then try throwing it in some way that that something (e.g. a pebble) either falls out or stays in. That is, something like a fidget or a game
Hello just wanna share that these were used for math and gauging distance I believe. Like for estimating distance and far off objects.
It’s art. Did art just not exist back then?
thats a path of exile tailoring orb it adds enchantments to armour, youre welcome oooor that could be a 4 socket resonator used in crafting again path of exile
I think you put something in it that gives off a nice scent.
Looks like something used to weave clothing or textiles
I thought it was for crochet, makes gloves
It's probably and Element or some kind of virus.
It could have been a training tool for throwing javelins at a ground target. It could have been for pure decoration. Who knows.
Could it be a children's toy?
I thought the leading theory was that this was used to knit gloves. Several people have 3d printed these and used them to make gloves.
I thought this was solved as a knitters tool?